Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're recreating Monday Nights on Thursday mornings. Yes, I'm here with my Monday Night buddy, Nick Shook, and we're gonna start really diving deep into the off season. We're gonna talk about franchise tags. Nick. We're also gonna throw to an interview we did last week with Kobe Turner Jordan Rod Reagan. I that I really enjoyed. But it is great to be talking to you, Nick.
I know you're playing hurt. Everyone got Everyone has a flu game this week coming home from New Orleans.
Yeah, yeah, we're all battling something that we picked up.
I mean, I guess it's not a week in New Orleans if you don't board the flight back with chills.
But we're here, baby, we're working.
I know.
Our producer Eric got stuck at the airport for about seven hours after staying up all night because it was a six am flight. That's a disaster, and apparently everyone is playing hurt right now, not feeling strong. My poor son puked in the cab on the way to the airport and on the plane. There was something going on in that superdome other than the most dominating defensive performance I've ever seen. Look, Nick, we're gonna get right into it.
We're going to talk a little news. Like I said, We're going to talk some tag primer, and I'm looking forward to everyone hearing this Kobe Turner interview that was so good that I just wanted to save it because I thought it was going to get lost last week. It had nothing to do with the super Bowl, so our listeners hopefully will enjoy that. But let's talk about a couple news items that dropped before the super Bowl
that I thought were worth actually mentioning. And the first is that Aaron Rodgers, it started with Jay Glazer, is unlikely to be back with the Jets next season. After Glazer first reported this, basically every insider had a version of this story. They all agreed, and it really sounds like Rogers is done with the Jets, which to me is a fascinating decision, and I'm actually a little surprised. Maybe I shouldn't be.
I mean, I felt like any time that a new regime was coming in, which obviously the Jets have one, that they'd be inclined to move on because he's not their guy. He's also forty one years old, and there's no real future with him. But you did think bridge quarterback for a year. You don't have your replacement on the roster right now, you're not quite in a position to draft one unless maybe things change in that regard.
So that's where the surprise does land. But otherwise, I mean, he spent weeks, if not months, talking about, Yeah, I'd love to be back if they'll have me, and ultimately it seems like they won't have him.
And there's some debate whether it's his choice, their choice, both their choice, mutual choice. Diane Rassini of The Athletic had a great little item that the Jets said, if you were going to come back, you would have to be at all the mandatory practices. You would have to give up your Pat McAfee show. Ooh. Really intriguing and basically saying like this is not going to be the regime kind of bows to Aaron Rodgers, which is really interesting because any team, now that you think about that
wants to bring him in. He comes with a lot of baggage.
Yeah, baggage is exactly what I would expect or what I was thinking too. Luggage, plenty of luggage there and some of it not really necessary or it would fit the plan of most of these teams. I think you accept that if the guy's thirty five or even thirty eight gives you a chance to win a super Bowl. But he's beyond that now, So I understand that it's just now who's going to be willing to at this point.
I lack his baggage.
That's Terry Jones last week. I feel like we're going to be reusing that one a lot. Part of the fascination to me with Rogers is just, yes, the negatives do not make it worth bringing him back. In my mind,
I think they're making the right choice. But then when you look at all the quarterbacks that are available, we're going to talk about Sam Darnold, and you look at the season Rogers had and you squint hard, like, well, there's about seven or eight teams that need quarterbacks, and he's still one of the better ones that are just available. So it wouldn't have surprise me. Would have been a
very Jets move to keep him. I thought it was interesting though, that Ian Rappaport, our Insider, said, with Rogers likely not returning, it could be a packaged deal that Devonte Adams is also unlikely to be back, and while Rogers has no trade value, I don't think I think they're gonna have to cut him because of his contract. Look, the Jets just gave up something for Devonte Adams six
months ago. Last Really, I actually think looking at Devanta Adams' contract, they could get something for him and that he potentially would be a trade target versus a release. But to me, that report indicates like they believe in Garrett Wilson as
their future. He was maybe honking about possibly getting traded out of there by the end of that season and maybe getting rid of Adam just kind of clears the deck, and I actually think he can provide some value for a team out there, certainly maybe as a number two receiver instead of as a clear number one. It seems crazy to me that he would just be a package deal at this point of his career with Aaron Rodgers. But who knows. These two dudes are a little weird.
Yeah, I mean, I know he's north of thirty, and folks are going to wonder about the long term viability. I get that, and the numbers high, like the existing cap number right now going into twenty twenty five is thirty eight point two million dollars.
That's a thirty five million dollar base salary, So.
Maybe a lot of negotiation there, like you're gonna have to convert a lot of that into bonus, tack on voidears, and then you're paying in the future for what you're getting immediately and what are you getting. But at the same time, I still think that he is valuable. He proved that down the stretch with Rogers, with some of the plays that he made. There was a stretch in a couple of games where he became DeVante Adams Again,
I think he still carries value. The package deal idea makes it a little bit harder to figure out because you're narrowing the pool of potential suitors. But I think Adams on his own definitely still carries some value. It's just that how do you negotiate or navigate that contract.
Although the more the more I look at it a thirty five million dollar base, I thought it was a lower base and the Jets had already played paid more of a upfront money. That's a lot for Devontae Adams now with a team, just so that they don't have to negotiate with him be willing to pay thirty five million dollars in twenty twenty five. It's kind of like a one year deal and they give up a fifth to seventh swap and the Jets just get something out
of it, which is better than nothing. That's possible, but it's also very possible. DeVante Adams and Aaron Rodgers both just get cut together, which is by the New York Jets, which is a crazy sentence to imagine if you're in the year twenty twenty one, when Aaron Rodgers is winning the MVPs and Devonte Adams is the best wide receiver in football. But this is how it ends for even
the greatest of players. Deebo Samuel over the weekend made it clear through reporting, which you have to assume is approved by his agent or straight out pushed by his agent, or maybe by the forty nine ers. Either way, he's getting traded. He's on the trade block. He asked for a trade. I'm gonna do a show talking a little bit about trade candidates on Friday morning. Bill Barnwell's on that show. Really looking forward to that, so we'll dive
into more of the particulars. But it really feels like this is the end shook of debo in San Francisco. Not totally shocking when you look at what else is going on on that roster.
Yeah, and I think they made their decision when they paid Brandon Ayuk last year. Diebo's also struggled with health over the last few years. Just in terms of availability. He's not quite the guy that unlocks the offense that he was in previous years, and they also dealt with a number of injuries. So it's kind of hard to evaluate his value within this team. But it's pretty clear, like you said, that they're ready to move on. The difference here, though, is that financially it doesn't seem like
it's so prohibitive cost wise. I mean, he's going to twenty twenty five with the cap number just shy of sixteen million dollars according to over the cap, that's not
that high he keeps somebody like that. But then again, I feel like they're at a point now where they just go their separate ways in both of their best interests, and it sets up an interesting market for him because I think he still does Carrius some value if he stays healthy, and there are going to be a lot of teams that are gonna be interested in a player like him.
Yeah, this is all where the agent and Deebo Samuel and what they want to do helps determine the trade value for the forty nine ers. Now, you wouldn't think they would want to do anything to help the forty nine ers. The reality is his contract's great, Like he has a five million dollar option bonus and a one million dollar base salary. He's going to want a new contract, but he's coming off some bad years. He is not
the player he used to be. I've seen some places get really excited about trading for Deebo Samuel, and I think he can be a good role player. The fact that the forty nine ers couldn't get that much out of him consistently over the last couple of years is a huge red flag to me. And so if he wants top tier money, I'm not giving up anything in a trade really for him. And if he's willing to kind of get a little bit of money extra for this year but it's almost a prove it year, then
a team would want to trade for him. We'll get into that a little bit more on that trade show that I mentioned. Speaking of trades like the offseason, just doesn't wait around. Tom Pellisero reported Jermaine Pratt, of all people of the Bengals, has requested a trade. He's not the only Bengal that could be getting traded. We'll talk about t Higgins in just a second. Talking about franchise tags, I think Jermaine Pratt would have almost certainly been cut
this year. I can't imagine that lu Ayne Rumo loves him that much that the Colts are going to give up a draft pick for him, So I would think he'll just be cut. But it's trade request season. There are going to be a lot of trades, and that really informs this franchise tag preview we're going to do right now, Nick, So I'm excited. I was saying at the end of the show with bo Wolf, it's Greg's season. The regular season is over. I love this season, Jordan
and you throughout this name. It sounds ridiculous for me to say it, but I'm saying it. It's really about five weeks long. The bulk of free agency and trades will be done by about March nineteenth, twentieth. You know, we're taping this in the middle of February, and the first big date that kicks it off in theory is the franchise tag and that being allowed to happen. That is actually next Tuesday where that opens up, and it
lasts a couple of weeks there. And so in advance of the franchise tag being opened up, I thought we'd go through all the players that we can realistically expect will be tagged, could possibly be tagged, some guys that we think are interesting that we don't think are tagged. I used to do this exercise every year on the website, and I think it's telling about this free agency class. It's not a great one. I have zero locks. I put it in a bunch of different categories. I have locks,
leaning yes, maybe probably not. Usually the top of my free agency board is just five out of the top six players are locks to be franchise tagged, like t Higgins a year ago was one of those guys. I literally have no locks this year. And I actually do think that is telling of a league right now, which is a locking up its players earlier than ever, and
there's there's not as many great talents. And then b I think it's just a little random that this year doesn't happen to have any guys that are for sure getting franchise tagged.
Yeah, we're also getting contributions from younger guys, like big time contributions, quicker than we did in previous years or previous generations, I think. And that starts with young quarterbacks, but it extends to playmakers that are you know, stepping in, especially receiver and producing right away. You can also think
about a Bjon Robinson as another one. So it kind of tips the scales away from the free agency frenzy because these guys are playing so well in these are fourable contracts that by the time that they come do for free agency, a lot of these teams are locking them up, like you said, and then it takes away a little bit of the juice out of free agency, But that's never a problem for us.
We're going to find these now.
It's still fascinating. We saw how the Eagles completely transformed their team last year. The Ravens have completely transformed their team in back to back off seasons and they haven't finished the job, but they've done a lot of great work that got them in position to do it. So no locks, I have three players in my leaning yes category and you can just tell me where you disagree what you think. T Higgins, Ronnie Stanley, and Sam Darnold
are the three players in my leaning. Yes, even since I sent you my document, I've changed my mind about one guy, T Higgins. Let's start with him. Was franchise tag last year. If they have to keep him again, it's one hundred and twenty percent of this year's salary. Everyone is out there saying we want to sign T Higgins. It's everyone's solution to their wide receiver problem. The Patriots, the Chargers. You could name about ten teams T Higgins
would help. He'd help every team, but ten teams where it's realistic. The more I looked at this, I'm like, why, I know the Bengals don't like, you know, paying players long term, but why not just pay T Higgins again or put the tag on him and trade him, which we've seen happen in the NFL more than a few times in recent years. It happened with Lugerius Snead last year. Not exactly a Bengals forward thinking move, and yet I
think it makes sense for them. They would be able to get a draft pick for T. Higgins if they can create the space to keep him at twenty six point one million dollars in March. They have a lot going on this offseason. Maybe they don't want to do that, but I am leaning yes on t Higgins.
Yeah, I agree, and I think a lot of it comes down to market value. You know, if twenty six point one is the one hundred and twenty percent tag that he's going to get, first off, you won't see a tag again the following year. But it makes sense even to keep him more to tag him and trade him, because market wise, the top annual average salary is Justin Jefferson at thirty five million. Tenth is Cooper Cup at twenty six point seven million. The Rams are interested in
moving on from him. Keeping te Higgins at a number below that, that's great value, especially considering how desired he is in the market, how well he played this year, how well he fits into that offense. So it makes a ton of sense for me to well, maybe you can't figure it out long term, but one more year together, maybe if we could just figure out those early season difficulties and make another run. Absolutely, it makes a ton
of sense this one. I lean toward this happening the most out of anybody.
Wow, Okay, I'm intrigued that you're with me on this. I thought this might be controversial because the Bengals have this let guys walk away, But then I looked at their cap space this offseason.
They have it.
They have forty six million dollars in cap space. That number is very unofficial to twenty six point one. I'm going off Joel Corey of CBS Sports two. Great job doing estimated franchise text. Now T Higgins is one is a little confusing because it would be one hundred and twenty percent of his last one or the top five. So we're waiting to see what is higher there. But either way, a one year deal, that's great bargains. Mike
Brown loves a great bargain. The problem is do they have the appetite for going through another off season of drama? And te Higgins will not be happy with this. Trey Hendrickson is someone who is not happy with his contract. Necessarily, Jamar Chase has to get done. It actually would be a very Bengals move to just let T Higgins walk. I don't think it's a smart move, and that's why I'm only leaning yes, because I think it makes a
lot of sense. Ronnie Stanley interesting one here. Now T Higgins my number one wide receiver that would be available as a free agent. Ronnie Stanley would be my number one tackle that's available as a free agent. Started out this season playing really well according to the tape heads, maybe didn't finish the season, and as Strong has had a lot of injuries over the last few years, the Ravens don't have a ton of cap space cast strapped a lot that they have to deal with this offseason.
It'd obviously be a big number for a tackle. It'd be twenty three million dollars or more. He also took a pay cut before last year because of his injuries, and that complicates factors where they weren't willing to pay him.
Then.
I know he's coming off a good year, but I'm only leaning yes. If it was almost any other situation, I would assume you just would tack on another year and keep Ronnie Stanley instead of creating a big issue.
Yeah, and history I think matters for this with the Ravens because they've had struggles replacing tackles in the past.
It was Stanley's injuries, it was losing Alejandro Villanueva, like they've had to rotate through a number of different guys to find some stability there, and they were able to benefit from it this year with you know, Derrek Henry's success and Lamar Jackson's success and everything else, but numbers wise, after Stanley took that pay cut, the president has set for him to not make that much money, and age
is another factory. Even when he took that pay cut, he spoke about how you wanted to finish it the right way. So if you're looking for a one year option, I guess it makes sense. But financially for me, the numbers don't quite make sense for me, just considering his injury history.
He'll get paid though, he'll get paid so much, and I know he'said a ton of injury.
But it's not in the Ravens history to spend that type of money on.
So you're saying I should put down to that the maybe category, which I think is where the Beat writers would agree with you.
Locally, Yeah, it just doesn't make a ton of sense in terms of history and numbers wise. The Ravens aren't the team to spend, you know, recklessly like that.
They need him, all right, I'll move him to maybe Sam Darnold. I'm leaning yes, there would be a thirty nine million dollar cap hit. The reason is just that he has traded values. That's it that they that they can afford to keep them in between, that they can get this thing done in time to get that money off the books. They have fifty eight million dollars in caps right now, so they could afford to do it, and they could get a you know, third round pick
out of it. Now, if you're a Vikings fan, you might think, well, when't we get a compensatory pick if he signs elsewhere. First of all, maybe depends how many players you're signing. And then you also move up the window. You get the pick faster. Everyone likes picks faster. They're also higher because the compensitory picks are at the back, you know. And that's just assuming he gets a third
round pick. Maybe they could get more if they If they don't feel like they could get more for Sam Darnold at thirty nine million dollars, then maybe they just let him walk. The more I listened to Kevin O'Connell during Super Bowl week, he was very careful and really left it open so that you couldn't draw major conclusions, but he did say a couple of times he's earned the right to see what a Pro Bowl appearance can
get him. And I just think he has about a ten percent chance of being on the Vikings next year. So knowing that, how did they handle it? I think they tag and trade him. I think they get it done.
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. O'Connell's kind of had that tone in his voice since their season ended that it felt like it was the end for their partnership, and other teams are going to look at this as, oh, they got him, do that tag?
We can? You know, tag and trade? That's like the Daniel Jones value. Why not? Because other teams are desperate for quarterbacks.
They can also renegotiate their own deals and everything else, but it preserves the Vikings' ability to get something for him. So it makes a lot of sense. But I agree ten percent chance that he ends up on this roster. I just they're ready to move forward.
And I would even say, like, if I'm putting ten percent back on the roster, I'm putting fifty percent tag in trade forty percent. He just goes on his merry way and they just don't get anything other than the compensatory pick, which is fine. They got a lot out of them, you know, don't get greedy Vikings fans. All right, my Maybi's Zach Bond. Talked about him with Bo Wolf on our last show, Tray Smith the excellent guard for
the Chiefs. Now, maybe Stanley's in that group because you did such a nice job convincing me and Carlton Davis. I'm throwing in here for the Lions, although that maybe he should be a tier lower. Let's start with Bond, who was in my leaning yes before and then as we were texting about like the linebacker money is twenty five million dollars because edge rushers are in there, I still am on the closer side to yes than maybe
for Zach Bond. But how I think it'll play out is they'll just get the deal done before the end of the franchise tag deadline, so they have to, you know, put the tag on them by a couple of days before free agency, and they'll almost use that as an internal deadline because they're if they were forced to if they can't come to an agreement. I actually do think ultimately they would just use it because you can't let Zach bond out of the building. That's where we're at
in twenty twenty five. That's what I believe. I actually think he's kind of irreplaceable for them, as crazy as.
That sounds, Yeah, I mean that's how well he played this year.
And I think that, you know, financially, number doesn't really make a ton of sense because, like if you look at the linebackers that compared to him posessionwise, Rokwan's at the top at twenty million a year average annual value, right, and that's way higher. But then again, he played such an important role in this defense. He had an All Pro year. He was just a transformative player that you
could justify it. I think instead, what they're going to do is exactly what you just said, which is use it as a deadline, use it as a last ditch type of situation. I mean, for Zach, he's going to get paid. He made three point five million dollars last year. He's way outperformed that, and I think that they understand that they need to get that deal done. They're also not operating with the most cast base. According to over the cap right now, it's eighteen million willion in next year, So I.
Kind of stuff to do.
I think this is just a like a preservation method where they're just like, all, we have a lot of deals to get done. I think they'll ultimately get a deal done with him, like you said, and they just save that as a last ditch, make sure he doesn't get out the building type of thing.
Okay, Yeah, So all these free agents that people are going to see on the list, like a lot of them, aren't going to get there. March fourth is the day that you have to have a franchise tag applied, buy or they ultimately just enter free agency. So to me, that's like a soft deadline for them. Tray Smith, just the vibes in Kansas City all year was that they were maybe gonna let their twenty six, twenty seven year
old former All Pro, Excellent Pro Bowl guard go. Some football heads think maybe it wasn't his best year, but I don't know if that's that important. He's had a really great career so far. He'll make a killing on the open market. But the Chiefs are kind of in that position where you can't pay everyone. So if it was any other team, I would have just said he's close to a lock with them. I say, it's a maybe twenty three million dollars would be their franchise deck.
It's a tough number to digest when they have so many things to address, but we just saw their biggest weakness in the Super Bowl cause them to right, which is offensive line. I'm sorry, you know me, I invest in the trenches. I think you do whatever you have to do to keep him, and I think some other contracts are going to be in play, Travis Kelsey's decision on whether he wants to play in the future or not.
That could free up some cap space.
There are decisions that they have to make elsewhere in order to kind of reorganize this salary cap situation. But this is a guy you can't let leave. He's still young, He's played very well over the course of his career. It's a key position in my opinion, and I think you have to do what you have to do to
keep him. I don't know if I would like to pay that tag number, but because Joe Toney, you know, he's tenth and average annual value at sixteen million dollars, and you know what he brings to the table, this would be a lot more. But just in terms of football, you got to keep him. There's so much capsman's out there.
If Tray Smith gets to the open market, he's gonna make oh tons twenty five million dollars a year. Yeah, in the first couple of years of that deal.
All these justify them keeping him at that number because of their own situation unfortunately that.
I'm thinking about last year and how they tagged and traded Snead' I'm moving this up to leaning yes that they it just even though the reporting is so strong that he that they're going to like not pay him, that they're going to let him go. So many times I've seen over the years, what the totally on ed educated person from the outside thinks is most logical to happen is actually what happens and not what is reported
to happen. And to me, it's just not logical that good players just don't get let go let him go. So I think I'm moving him up to leaning yes. And it could be at tag and trade too, where at least they get something for him. Brett Veach is saying that Carlton Davis, Look, there's not many cornerbacks that would be available. He would be one of the best. I think he's really important to what the Lions do. It would be a huge number. I'm leaning more no on this, but I put him in the maybe category.
He's coming off a broken jaw, which sounds like the most unpleasant injury you could possibly have. But as as a football you know, personnel, guy probably thinks about it like his jaw is just gonna heal and that's not a problem moving forward. The number at cornerback is twenty million dollars for a guy who's getting close to thirty. That's actually perfect. Give me a one year, twenty million dollar Carlton Davis contract. They have plenty of cap space.
I actually think that makes a lot of sense, So I'm going maybe on Carlton Davis.
Yeah, I would lean on this as well.
I mean, it's kind of near the top, and Ramsey's at the top at twenty four point one million in average anyal value. But like it's worth it. It's a one year thing. It's a position that you need. It's an area that you spent a lot to address in the offseason, and then you saw, you know, as the injuries piled up on defense that eventually you couldn't get a stop in the playoffs and that contributed to your downfall and you were missing him, so I'd bring him back.
It's a one year thing, it's not like you're paying multiple years. Why not do it.
I think they're in championship mode, and this is actually kind of a championship mode move. Is you tag one of your veterans that you're happy to keep for one more year. The rest of the guys, and look, that's a short list. Usually, like I said, there's five or six locks. You know, there's anywhere between four and five at the very low end, and in nine, ten to eleven,
twelve at the top end. You know, we just went through six guys and I think only three or four of them are going to be tagged, and those, to me, are the most likely. It's going to be a small group this year. Might probably not list. I just don't think they're gonna pay that much on a one year deal for Josh Sweats, as great as he's been. Paul Senadebo coming off a terrible injury for the Saints, but I just decided to throw him in there. Assante Samuel.
It's a new coaching staff and he's coming off an injury. Justin Reid is really important for the Chiefs, So that wouldn't totally shock me. I thought I'd write it down. And then Milton Williams, who that was the one in the probably not. I was like, if they could they could free up enough money and you get bond on a deal like that's it's not It wouldn't be shocking
to me for them to pay Milton Williams. But that's a lot for a guy that's been like your fifth or six defensive lineman to pay him twenty million dollars a year whatever it would be for defensive tackle, twenty five million dollars actually would be that would be That's a tough call.
I mean, that would have to be a deal that you backload in order to make it all fit. Right now, I feel like he's the guy who's gonna make money elsewhere ultimately. But because they have the depth there and everything else, and Sweat, Sweat felt like it was we were kind of headed toward this way a couple of years ago, and they've drafted and developed accordingly to They made.
Him take a pay and the restructure, by the way, so I don't think I don't think he was thrilled about that, and he almost was super Bowl MVP. He actually was quoted I think it was to Albert Breer saying like, maybe I should have been super Bowl MVP. So that's the guy that knows.
And teams like this, they tend to get pillaged. I mean, I think about the Giants back when they beat the Patriots. A ton of guys cashed in off of that victory. Did they play that well elsewhere? No, but this is tends what happened. People come in, they grab guys, they overpay him, and they all cash in.
Sweat's a good player, maybe not a great player, but a very good player, very like one, a very good season. But he's thirty. Not the type of guy I think the Eagles are gonna pay. So those are the probably not just a few other names that I just thought were interesting. If you were curious, you're out there, you were for the team with these guys on them, Oh, wouldn't they tag them? I don't even think these guys are close. But Ernest Jones with the Seahawks, he did
make a big impact. Javon Holland, I just think, but he would make sense in another scenario, but the Dolphins in him didn't seem to have a great relationship, so that that's a hard no for me. Oh A Diggi Zua and DeMarcus Lawrence for the Cowboys. They're a little strapped. They're not going to tag those guys. Julian Blackman for the Chiefs, Keenan Allen Levi on Wuzurique DJ Reid the cornerback for the Jets, and Alaric Jackson for the Rams.
Those are all hard nos in my mind. It is a hard yes to this Kobe Turner interview that's coming up after the break, But I'm not saying goodbye to Nick. We'll say a little goodbye for the show. Nick. After we take a quick break we come back. You're going to listen to an interview Jordan rod Rieg of The Athletic and I did with Kobe Turner. This guy's a star just in terms of his personality, his intelligence, and
his play on the field. And I just thought it was a cool interview that I kind of want to didn't want to get lost. I hope you guys enjoy it. Nick and I will be back on the other side of this conversation, back on NFL Daily and thrilled to be joined by a man that I now consider a close friend because.
In one week, Yes, aren't you sick of us?
No, not at all. You guys are incredible.
Kobe Turner of course, the defensive lineman for the Los Angeles Rams, And yes, we spent some time together as part of the Mina Kimes benefit on That was Monday night of super Bowl week in Los Angeles. And I gotta say, Kobe, you you sang that night and you you gave me chills. I'm not just saying that because I didn't talk to you afterwards. Really, we went on stage, he was out, We were ships crossing the night. You were very nice, and we were watching the show earlier.
But man, watching people's faces and reaction to you that night singing, I'm not kidding. I'm not just blowing smoke. I got chills there. Yeah, props, because that's that's what music is all about. How does that feel to make other people feel that way? Man?
It was It was cool. It was definitely different.
You know, go on acapella and you know, I of course put that song out already on Spotify, and then I'll have another song that should be coming out next Friday, probably which little like name was praying so it'll be a cover of Praying by Kasha.
Oh my god, that's one of my favorite songs.
Yeah.
So if you guys saw a House of the Rising Sun was good, like this one is the one. Like I'm super excited to be able to share this one with you guys.
Because soby, like everybody saw you on Mass Singer. Everybody knows what you're capable of. But also that's TV to have you there in person. You didn't even have to stand up. You hit the high notes. So I have to tell you. So I saw Greg. Greg was watching on the monitor backstage because we were getting ready to come back out. We didn't want to be like looking in to be like oh hi, you know, and distracting whatever and watching Greg watch you and Greg and I'm sorry, you're sorry.
I'm gonna blow you up here a little bit.
But Greg turns to me and he goes, he is a star, and I was like, I know, I know, and it just it was really cool and I love that like I cover I cover you, you know when I cover the rooms for the athletic and like it's just something I'm not saying you get used to it because you don't.
But you're just like this all the time.
Yeah, Yeah, it's really it's really cool to be able to share that side. And yeah, and then from the mass singer, you know, you're in this big costume, like there's they don't change your voice too much, but obviously you're singing through a costume, so there's different things that they have to do to you know, to make it sound coherent and to where you're not just hearing the
inside of the costume. But it is different being able to do something live and then also to be able to share all of my stuff out on like all of the streaming platforms because it's like, you know, I know that this is more of a passion project, but this is something that I love to do and that I believe I'm really good at and that could have its own direction, but you know, I'm a football guy and that's what I love to do. But it's it's cool to do that on the side, for sure.
It's just so cool.
I just you know, for listeners, I mean, I know you listen to me like wax poetic about all these like superstars that I get to cover in the LA but like Kobe's a team captain for a reason. You know you you bring people with you and you're authentic and fully yourself. And I love what Mina was talking to you about on Monday, because that can be hard to do in this league that wants to a take from you, b beat you down physically. See it's very
mentally taxing as well. But you sort of float, if that makes sense, And I guess I wonder like where does that come from?
What's your support system?
And how do you stay so I mean again, you just kind of float through it all like very gracefully, if you don't mind me saying.
Yeah, I'm so grounded. And that comes back to my fiance. You know, we're about to get.
By the way, and I was like, you rock so much, by the way, it's a lot.
You're definitely gonna be a wife guy.
Yeah, I know.
I'm a huge like to be able to be a husband, or to be able to be her man is something that I take a lot of pride in being. So she just completely grounds me. I mean she's there through everything, everything behind the scenes, massing or everything, like she's here today. She's just she's my person who grounds me. And I'm so lucky to be able to have been able to
find her and yeah. So the way that I am able to continue to be myself is to have people like her who are in my corner and who are cheering me on and being like yeah, like post that wicked TikTok video or like go live and like go because I'm already singing, like when I'm in the house, I'm going to be playing my guitar, playing my piano.
But She's like, share that.
With the world. And that's been one of my biggest goals, is to just be able to share all that I am with the world, and not to just present here's the football side, but to be like, I would not be the football side that I have if it wasn't for the music side, if it wasn't for the man side, if it wasn't for the fiance side. So to be able to share the totality of all of who I am and to have a support system starting off with her is the reason why I am able to float through.
Now Jordan's given you in the listeners some of the character reasons. It's like then the man behind the jersey of why you're you're a leader on that team.
But the production matters a lot. It does.
If you could get on that field, if you weren't making those sack getting those no doubts.
Yeah, that's a big part of it.
I wonder, is there a particular way that you like to win the best?
Is there is there a way you win that is your favorite.
So I take a lot of pride in whenever we're in our overload fronts and I'm the penetrator who just has to crease through the a because well one that's and I know we might talk cadence and stuff, but I'm able to see different keys from the center to be able to let me know when to get off, so that I'm the person who gets all fast the fastest, and at times I get off faster than the old
lineman who know the snapcount. But it's something fun about being able to club the center and when you like when you catch his arm perfectly and boom you hit it by and it's like the center misses. But that's
only half of the battle. And then now you have to rip through and you have to get to the back short of the guar and you trap them with your elbow or you're either you know, pushing through the back shoulder or I catch a club on the center's elbow and then I catch the guard up and throw them by and then now all I have to do is run straight in the quarterbacks right there.
I'm watching, if you're watching on YouTube, Kobe is showing how he's doing the club and I'm just I'm just everything.
You just you just grab you know what.
I'm gonna not comment.
It's not gonna comment. I'm not gonna come it. There's a little size difference.
You know, no problem.
Yeah, but no, that's that's one of my favorite ways. Like whenever I get lined up and I'm like, I'm just creasing this gap from the from the nose technique like I have. There's a certain mentality that's when I'm at my best. And you know, I think it's was really cool too as the season progressed to continue to find ways to put me in that position and a lot of our overload packages.
But you see it, you hear the communication.
You're like, okay, like we walked up, uh say, we walk up Hoyt on the backside. He's a bigger body, So that's gonna listen a five. Oh, so it's really me in the center. If it's just me and the center. I'm beating the center, and then I'll be able to beat off. I'll be able to beat the backside guard and come through, you know, clean through the A gap. But then there's sometimes where they bring a four to three slides, so the center sliding a little bit harder.
But all of those things I like to pick up on it, and then I know, Okay, this is my opportunity. And so I like increasing long winded version.
Of saying I like to we love that, we love that, that's what we're all about.
I love how casual. By the way, he also says like, oh, well, first I just beat the center.
Yeah, and did you see the side eye?
He gave a little side eye too, like you know you know well, but that is correct because we see you do it, snap in and snap out. Okay, here's my pitch to you. Okay, so you write a book at some point, because I believe you can do it. You can do everything, and it from a d tackles perspective secrets of an NFL center because you are studying these guys. And that's something that Aaron Donald did too, and I know you know.
That because we've talked about it, and like we to get into their the way that you do.
First of all, take us through your process, because to win like you do, you do have to know tendencies, cadences. You have to look for little weaknesses. One time Aaron showed me this and it was a frightening experience for me because I was like, oh my god, and because when he grabs you, you're just like, oh my god. He was telling me about how he would just sometimes walk down the hallways and just grab alignement by like, oh, is that a weak spot?
Does that hurt? Is that a pressure point?
And he would look for different like soft spots for these linemen. Yeah, but I know you're studying all of that too, So where do you start and how do you study?
Like what is your process of studying and what have you learned?
Yeah, okay, so this is going to be multifaceted, so fast. One, when we talk about weak spots on somebody's arm or on somebody's body, that's a lot that I've actually learned from Eighties Knife Guy. We talked about it on the meinaodcast.
So I called Eighties Knife Guy so I hit.
Him up right after NFL. Honest, that's a lot of what he does it's how to break down different joints. What are the weak spots? Where can you attack and what's going to be weak on an offensive lineman or Okay, hey, if I say I swipe out on offensive lineman, then how is he going to replace his hand? Is he gonna replace his hand back out and up under? And if he does in that time where I'm swiping out and he's replacing his hand, he doesn't have a hand
on me. So if I grab cloth and I'm able to throw him by now I'm able to get back to the quarterback. And so there's a lot of things that you break down in that sense, and that's a lot of what Poodi has helped me to do.
And then we ad.
And then when we just talk about like my film study, there's a million and one things that I look through people are probably if people sit in a film room with me, they're probably going to be bored because they might not be seeing what I'm seeing. But I'm replaying the start of each play the end of each play to see just exactly everything that I can take from it. You know, a lot of times I'm looking first at what are their tendencies, what are they doing past, how do they like to play?
All of these things?
But then when you really get to the nitty gritty, right, So I'll take you through a home game. We're playing a home game at SOFI. A lot of teams are going to be on a silent cadence. So that means the sinner has to either a get tapped by the guard to let him know snap the ball, or b has to look through his legs get a visual cue and then decide to go or see he'll and he'll call out the cadence on himself.
We just stuck his head and listeners yet, right, so.
He'll call out the cadence himself. There's when you play so much and when you really study the game, you get to feel somebody's aura. And it's not something that comes through so much on tape, but once you're in person, you feel the aura. You feel, Okay, this person is ready to go, or this person's not ready. And so there's sometimes right where I'll watch the very beginning of the play where it'll just barely be cut off and it's like a fake cadence where the sinner's looking through
his leg but he's not ready. And so I'm looking at his knees at how tensed his quad muscles are. I'm looking all the way like I'm king the knee. Some guys, you like, there's there's a couple of sinners who maybe their hand is in the middle uh when they're faking, and then by the time when they're when they're trying to get out, they throw their hand back as they're looking down under to kick back.
And so we're not going to say the name you told me, and I'll take it to the.
Green right, because we got to use that one for a little bit, I promise.
But it's it's so interesting to be able to see these certain things, and you see it when they're stressed, right. A lot of times people can control their movements when there's not somebody who's about to get off the bar, when they're not worried about who they're going up against. But every time I look at some okay, when they think this guy is about to shoot and jump the gap, what are they doing within their body to give them an extra extra step. Everybody in the NFL cheats, you know.
Coach Gift tells me all the time. If you're not cheating, you're not trying, and so it's a matter of catching the cheaters and catching what they do so that you can cheat off of them. And you know, if you listen to quarterbacks snap snap cadence or whatnot, like you're
laid off the ball every time. But because all of the linemen are jumping out right before he says the cadence, so to be able to key in on the particular pieces, whether it be an arm, whether it be a leg, whether it be the fact that some sinners, when you know they're looking down when they're about to uh, when they're actually about to snap it, they look down harder so that they can reset themselves back and back up
to be able to get off the ball. So there's so many, Like you said, you could write a book on writing.
Yeah, I'll take I'll only take ten percent.
It's fine, No, But Kobe, it's cool because like what, I don't think a lot of people on the outside when they they're watching TV or whatever and they see like their favorite team and like a d lineman all starts jumps offside something like that, and it's like, oh, he made a mistake. If they're very if they're a good player, such as yourself, Actually that's not what's happening. You saw something that you know is to be true and you reacted to the thing that you'd studied, and
I think that is a misconception. Is like, I've heard you take the blame for things sometimes and all this stuff, and I know you're a captain post to I get that, but like you're not messing up, like you saw that Seattle Center do something.
Yeah, it's whether it be that, whether it be to you. There's some guys that'll move and the refs don't see it because they're farther out. But being in tune, like there's so many times on film where I'm pointing at somebody and they snap the ball and it's not a fallse Star say, we take the Vikings game, you know, Jerry or Akello makes the big play, gets a strip, sack, Verse takes.
It all the way.
So I'm I would have been all sides if I was crowding the ball because I'm seeing the shot clock go down and I'm like, they have to snap the ball. I've heard von Miller talk about this. They have to snap the ball. The balls at zero zero, and it was at zero zero for a second, and normally the refs. They'll let it get to zero zero and they'll give them a chance to snap it. But if they're not
snapping it, then they're not doing anything. So I literally stand up and I'm pointing out the shot clock, the clock, and they and they, and they snapped the ball. And actually I was talking to Verse about it. If you watch that play, Verse doesn't get off the ball. He's like I saw Kobe stand up and start pointing. If he's pointing, then somebody did something wrong, like it's it's off sides or false start. Sorry, And so I'm pointing.
And then they snapped the ball, and nobody's ready to go because everybody thinks that it's a delay of game, and you know, a kello ends up going there.
Verse ends up.
Hanging out at the line and then boom, there goes the ball and he you know, hits his max speed or whatnot and takes it to the crib.
But crazy Vikings fans are gonna have nightmares. But yeah, you ruin their season, a couple teed off a couple of different times. I'm wondering.
It's interesting hearing you talk because it's the thing I love about football.
There there are so many levels to it.
You can enjoy it on the base level, and you can listen to all the things that go into the interior line play that. Yeah, I've covered the league for twenty years and I have no idea, you know, I'm learning that.
My point is, I'm like, I'm learning this stuff.
I don't I don't know about that stuff, of course, Yeah, and it's great to learn about it. And as you're talking, I am wondering, like, Okay, what is make what is Kobe Turner? Make him like Kobe Turner? And I'm thinking part of the equation might be that feeling of the aura.
One thousand percent. It's that it's the I'm very cerebral with the game.
So you got these guys that are just super great athletes, freak athletes, six seven long arms, you know, run a for whatever, and those guys, you know, those are the guys that get the power five offers out of high school. Those are the guys that get into the league in this game, right, And he's also a guy too who he's combined that with you know, work ethic to be able to get to where he's at and to be
able to impact the game at that level. But yeah, and so for me, coming from a guy who is a walk on, who is short, who has short arms, all of these things, and I think it's a similar path to what Ady has taken, and even a similar path that I think if guys on our team like Brandon Fisz Byron, young people who weren't looked at even Jerry Verse, who weren't looked at as these star studded athletes or anything like that, and who have had to work their way up. You have to find everything that
you can do to make yourself great. And for me, you know, I think that I put myself up there because of the way that I approach the game and the way that I'm prepared.
Right, you have so many people who go and watch.
The combine and they look at the forties and they're like, Okay, whatever their ten split is, that's going to affect their get off, Right, Whoever has the fastest ten split is going to have the fastest get off. Well, I didn't run the combine or I didn't run the forty. And the reason why I didn't run the forty is because it might have been in the five to two range or the five to three range, and somebody.
From the normal humans, right, And somebody.
Told me, don't do that. I don't have the fastest ten time.
But then if you just look at the get off you know, in those past rushing situations, who's getting off the ball faster? And I can guarantee you that the reason why I can even put myself up there with getting off the ball fast and to even be, you know, beating most people off the ball, if not all people at the ball, is because of the things that I key on mentally that give me an extra advantage. So it's it's so interesting there. Like you said, there are
so many different levels to the game of football. I have a I don't even think I have a master's degree in football. I have a PhD in football. Like, I study this game and that's what puts me in the positions.
That I'm in.
Can you imagine us talking to you three years from now and what you'll know, I mean, you.
Already know so much.
So here's the thing.
So here's the thing that's cool. So I was in the draft house when they selected you, and I watched Henny like FaceTime, and he was so excited and like, I know that's your guy, and like he's he was keyed on you. Yeah, for so long, and a lot of their scouts were keen on you for a really long time.
And I just remember them walking.
Through and like and raw saying, we just got bleeping Grady Jarrett.
Yeah, like that.
They they already saw the ten year plan for you because of how impressed they were, not just with how you showed up on tape, because they don't really and you know this about their ams. Obviously you play there, but like they don't really look at a lot of the testing in terms of what they hold the most weight on. They watched tape and they go meet you and like they talk to you and all of these things, and they were so excited and so fired up to just they already had this vision for who you could
be long term. And I think even to be a captain as as young as you are, it's not just really because I mean it's it's a young team, but it's there's some old guys on there too, But you're wait, fiance comes first, you know, are you gonna come?
Okay? PEPSI.
So also he knew you were I mean, I know you he you didn't tell anybody I know, but he recognized your voice, didn't didn't unmasked singer like ye, I know, because I know you didn't tell a soul, right, but but I know he reckoned. I feel like he recognized your voice when he was watching the show.
Yeah, I didn't tell a soul that he's he's family, So I didn't tell a soul. Yeah, but no, all the all the all the homies, all of the all of the family and people, all of the family knows that right away, and he's family.
That's a good point. If he has a pH D. Now, I don't know what happened. What's PhD?
I don't know, but I'm looking forward to findings in advance on your future job as commissioner.
Although I'm it's stuck in my head because I have just this image of it after you said it, Aaron Donald going through the hallway and just randomly like grabbing people's fairs to feel weakness points.
Yeah, that's going to give me nightmares.
Yeah, it happened to me.
Anybody behavior, But I'm kind of like afraid of that.
I would be afraid of that to one of the man's hands.
But he would do this like he would go through walk through and stuff, and he would like traumatize these poor alignment.
Although but like also Rob Havenstein was telling me it made them all better because they were like, oh am, I showing that, you know, is that obvious?
And so I was asking him about it. That's when he demonstrated, and I was like, I did not sign.
Up for this.
I didn't think this was what I was, you know, signing up for when I lasked.
So we're learning how you went off the snap, how you watch the centers, and we're even learning a little bit how the greatest of all time one one little piece of how he became the greatest of all time. He was Kobe Turner's mentor, and now Kobe Turner's has taken that mantle with the rams.
Appreciate the time. This was awesome. It's been a great week. You know, it's spending the time to multiple times.
This one went by very fast, so we have to We'll have to run this back sometimes we can.
We're going to get you in studio. We've talked about this.
We really want to get you in studio back in Los Angeles and all of that.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
Let's go appreciate you, Kobe.
Thank you.
Thanks, Kobe.
All right, that was a lot of fun last week. I already both miss New Orleans and I'm very happy. My body is happy that I'm back home in rainy southern California. And Nick, before we go, I want to bring Eric back into the show because I had a major mental malfunction. Oh yeah, wrapping up in that trailer. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. Time to make amends.
So I go through and I thank everyone for the great week, really the great season we had. I'm staring straight at my notes because I you know, I did make sure. I just didn't. I was didn't want to forget anyone in a big moment. But one one name I did not write down because I just assume that's obvious. You don't need to write down. This name is the man that keeps this show on the track, our producer,
Eric Roberts. No one puts more into this show. And look, you did a great job on around the NFL, and this shows has been even more on your plate and you just handled it and handle it all in like the coolest la Hey, it's no big deal, way possible. You got your bills. You got your Dodgers winning titles, you got your bills winning a lot of games, and I felt like such an idiot. Like five minutes after, I'm just apologizing to the guy. Eric Roberts. The guy
should be thanking first. So Eric, you're the man. I just needed the listeners to know how much he's the man. Well, I appreciate it.
The best part is when you did realize it, and I'm like standing in a parking lot trying to get files transferred and it's like holding a laptop trying to find Wi Fi, and you're like so apologetic. Oh my dude, it's okay, it's okay, it's not that big a deal.
I'm standing there drinking, and I'm drinking an orange juice. We're all like on the verge of just careening towards sickness. Eric's got his laptop holding it up. It's dark, we're outside a trailer. We're in like the back corner of where all this setup is. And Greg's like, oh my god, I can't believe I forgot him. And as he was reading those things off, I'm like thinking, did he already say it?
And I just missed it? No, And we totally understood.
And Eric as always just like dude, no worries, and he's more focused on uploading than anything, which is classic Eric. The same guy that I saw in the concourse at the Superdome twelve hours earlier, who couldn't be happier and more excited to take on the day, finishing strong, and it just rolls right off his back. He knows Greg, he doesn't hear the words of affirmation, and.
I think you had a great week. You're in that ox box, he had those nice seats. It was like, it is very cool.
You know, you.
Keep this show going. And look, we need to get you. We need to get you a full time job. I'm just putting this out there publicly. Yeah, I don't care the NFL manifest it not coming correct. It's absolutely ridiculous. And I just appreciate you and everything you do. And Chris Babona and Gavin Cansell who came in late in the season. Chris was about half way through. Obviously, Randy Chavez contributed a ton to this show and we thanked
him when he left. But Chris and Gavin we're back in LA helping with the edits and working really hard and obviously filling in for Eric too when necessary. So they were awesome all year long. But yeah, we're not We're not done. Like I said, we got a show on Friday. I actually saw a note on Threads by Tom Brady. We can we can put that up if you're watching on YouTube, and he just he sends it out how long until football season? And I just wanted
to say, officially, Nick, football is not back. It's too old. You can't ask that.
You're right, it's uh, we have officially hit the is it? Is it true? The off season is that thing?
It's actually greg season. We're going with this free agency period, but no football. Sorry, Tom, that was that was too premature. I don't know how much you're getting paid to like still post on Threads. I only saw that because you know on instat they put the little messages in between, and I was like, how I was thinking how much percentage of Threads traffic is just from people clicking on that, because that's one hundred percent of my Threads involvement over
the last few years. I'm like, well, maybe that'd be good for the show. Let's click on Tom Brady there, it's.
My traffic as well, and you know what. I'll say this, We've all earned a bit of a break, but NFL Daily does not stop, and football may not be back, but it's right around the corner.
So don't you worry. We'll be here the whole time it is.
We're gonna we have a lot of great shows planned. I was really excited because the daily format offers us a chance to kind of attack it in a different way. I used to do it with writing, with all these different articles of who's going to get cut? Like today the tag primer, We're going to talk about some trades coming up, We're going to do some off season previews. Really excited for all that that's coming up in the next couple of weeks. As we head to the Combine too,
that's only a week and a half away. I can't freaking believe it. Yes, for Eric killing it all year long, and Chris and Gavin and Nick, you don't you don't even seem like you're you're playing hurt. Yeah, when Aaron Rodgers has burned bridges with a new team, it's sick. Oh season, It's Greg's season.
H m hm.