Day 1 Combine Standouts and Players to Watch with Nate Tice and Nick Shook

Welcome to NFL Daily, where we've got a little Thursday night football from Lucas Oil Stadium. Yeah, the game wasn't played, but we had football players doing things that matter for the NFL. Yes, it feels like we're back on a night recap. I got Nick Schuk, who was in the stadium the whole day, and he's made it back to his hotel room where he's broadcasting from a tiny microphone that we ordered on Amazon twenty four hours ago so he could join us.

Thank you, Nick Schuk, Thank you for getting that set here. Poorly lit in this hotel room, but we're making it happen.

Yeah, I'm really excited. Let's just recap this day later in the show. Also, I'm gonna play a conversation I had with Nate Tice looking ahead to the next three days, who we're kind of looking at throughout the rest of the combine. But you know, we've already got results to talk about. Shogogy by the way, Like, what is it like there in the stadium, Like what are you are you like a stopwatch guy?

What are you doing there for seven hours?

I'm not a stopwatch guy? I go off the official results. I stood up in the suite. What I really do is watch the drills and take notes on every rep of every player because it allows me to filter through. And then some guys pop over time. You know, Tristan Wurf's pops over time, the Cam Jurgens pops just insially with the eye tests being there and seeing all the reps and I'm taking notes and I'm putting together the

Yeah, I love.

All Combined Team is one of the best pieces of content we do on NFL dot Com all year. One of the signature shook pieces. Well, then you should get going. I mean it'd be silly if I did. Let's hear, like, give me a standout to start with.

All right, So tonight was defensive linemen, edge rushers, and linebackers, and I felt, as many have said about this draft class, the depth is in the defensive line and specifically the the defensive tackle. We didn't get a lot of the guys that you've heard their names because they weren't participating. He had the two guys from Michigan. He had Walter Nolan from Ole, miss None of those guys participated, so we had to find some other guys, and we found

Number one CJ.

West from Indiana, who had a really good testing session. He ran a four nine to five forty with a one point seventy three second ten yard split, which is very good. At three hundred and sixteen pounds, he jumped thirty three inches. The guy's kind of an athletic freak, and then he ran through his drills and just looked powerful within his framework. He was controlled, he was strong. I really liked what I saw and I could see him making a difference.

At the next level.

The other guy in that group Tyler Williams from Ohio State, which, as somebody who follows Ohio State passionately, is a lifelong Ohio State fan. I knew that he was going to come here and make a difference. I just needed to be proven to me, and he did it in every single drill. He had the best workout I think of any interior defensive lineman out there. Just every rep of every drill. You just saw it over and over again. And eventually my notes they go from like great rep,

Yeah.

You mentioned with Wes there, he was only the eighth or ninth player ever at his weight to run that fast of forty under five seconds.

And this is why I love having you there.

You're in the stadium because you know, you could do the relative athletics scores and we will talk about that. That's all really important, That's what the combine's all about. But you're watching all the drills. I really like that. Where do you think these two guys, if they helped themselves, might fit in, Because you're right, a lot of the biggest names, it was kind of a story at every

Yeah, that's usually where I struggle, because you know, the draft is kind of a crap shoot. But I think about teams that need help stopping the run and need help in the interior. And one of the first teams that came to mind, even if you look at their roster wise they do have a lot of pending free agents is the Bengals because they got a lot weaker up front there with the losses that they had.

Round wise, What do you think too.

I think Tyler.

I think Lance had him going as high as thirty first. A lot of people have him in the second round. I could see him sneaking into the back end of the first round. It's there are gonna be a lot of interior linemen that go in front of him, the guys I just mentioned before, so it might be kind of hard to crack that.

But if anything, he's a day too. Guy West is the.

One where I'm going to have a hard time putting my finger on because he played at Kent State. Prior to Indian to Go flashes Alma matern Baby. But at the same time, I think that there could be a little bit of skepticism even though he tested really well today. So I think he's a Round two three guy at the top. He's not a Round one guy and could end up being later. But I really liked his workout.

Yeah.

I was texting with someone about him and they said, he's the he's a classic. Okay, let's go back and watch a little more tape. Yes, exactly after this that he grabbed our attention. All Right, we've already spent four

About the workout, Well, that's the funny thing is that a lot of the testing is done off to the.

Side while the other drills are going on.

So you might catch avert, but you don't know if your focus isn't on it unless you just happen to look up and see it out there in the distance, or you hear the crowd pop, you see the forty and in the stadium it's quiet when they're running the forties, and every once in a while somebody rips off a time that makes everybody go ooh and I and he was one of them. But the downside is is he doesn't do the drills, so it just ends right there and you're left wondering. Okay, and that's really the combine

The tape wasn't good. I mean again, four and a half sacks.

Depending on who you talk to, you can see the promise there, but he definitely didn't show the sort of explosion. And it's the type of draft prospect that we end up talking a lot about. So this will be our first Samar Stewart conversation again. One five to eight ten yard split, which is just outrageous exercize, It's it's crazy in a four or five ninety four and a half sacks doesn't tell the whole story.

Talking to more people like the tape isn't great.

He looks like a guy who just doesn't know really how to play football yet, And there's been guys like this.

Rashan Gary is one that.

Obviously, Javon Walker a couple of years ago is in that category.

But the ones I've spoken to.

And people that I trust too like his tape's rougher that he has even more to go. So it is going to be an incredible projection. But Jeremiah had him in his top twenty five coming into this week. I think he was twenty first. That's already expecting him to test well. But now you know, you got Buger McFarlane saying he might go number one overall and people thinking, okay,

Well, I mean, if you want to comp with the Mario Williams career. Mario Williams was the shocking pick that went ahead of Reggie Bush when everybody thought Reggie Bush was a slam dump in that draft, and over the course of his career he had a solid career, but he never quite lived up to the initial expectation that comes with being a number one overall pick. It's hard to hold another player to that standard of that expectation.

So it's gonna take.

Somebody with the big stones to go up there and do that if they feel that confidently about him. This is also why we have pro days and everything else. So the process is not done.

Yeah, tonight, we'll just focus on on the combine stuff. Although I will say if Mario Williams went seventh, that was a good pick.

He had a good career.

Yeah, he was a good player, just first in that job.

He just was a bowl. It was just a bold number one overall pick. For instance, he's Trevon Walker is not on pace to have as good a career nearly as Mario Willims.

And to give me.

Another students, and yes it's the pick, give me another standout, all right.

So we're gonna go away from the defensive interiors since we already did that, We'll go to edge. Interesting group because a lot of different archetypes. James Pierce laid it out with a four four seven forty that immediately grabbed the attention one five to six split, and that's kind of what put him on everybody's radar a little on. Even in the drills, I will say started well, handled the bag drill, well, wave drill.

Not as good.

You get into some of the later stuff and you're like, Okay, I can see it. I can see it as a guy who is going to be an edge rusher who has the athleticism to drop back and covered occasional. If you're gonna disguy's blitz is that type of thing, send a sim pressure, that sort of thing, But when it came to athleticism and body control, he passes flying colors. In my opinion, he looked like the guy that you

But he's He's somebody who define stood out to me.

He'll end up on the team as well, and then landon Jackson, who's a lot different. But the tape really I love the tape. His physicality, the way he's able to from Arkansas, yes, from Arkansas, who he's able to play through blocks and make tackles, that type of thing, I thought he crushed it. Athleticism on full display, fluids, smooth in motion, just look like a natural, and a lot of these drills. I'm really excited to see what happens with his career, just because he's somebody who got

Make a difference.

Well, it's funny because the drills more correlate to the football, and Pierce is similar, I think to Schmar Stewart, and I think there's a lot of guys in this draft where a lot of mock draft love, a lot of good measurable stuff, not necessarily great tape. You hear some frustration from Pierce that you're expecting this explosiveness and it doesn't totally show up on tape. His vertical actually was bad. Yeah,

Not as complete a workout on the field either.

Really okay, and yeah, the vertical for Landon Jackson actually was even higher than Jamar Stewart. He went forty and a half inches, which is just crazy for a guy that big kind of seen as like a second round type of pick. But helped himself. Today, give me someone else that you liked that there too, We'll.

Move to linebackers. Actually know it will stay on edge real quick, because there was a guy who almost made my team and I had to end up putting in monounorable mentions. David Walker from Central Arkansas. Central Arkansas. So this guy lower ceiling in terms of pure physical ability and potential, Like you can see the limitations and why he ended up at a Central Arkansas instead of like

One note on him, though, he was in the third percentile for his arm length, which it's like it's arm length. But I forget who the other comps were, but they only found like two players that even had reasonable NFL careers yep, with that short arm. So that's it's funny, and it's a theme of this draft if you're just starting to catch up. And I'm including myself in that, there are so many different opinions on all these guys. Jack Sawyer is a guy who some people have close

I wouldn't spend a first round pick on him.

Right, No, But I'm saying like some people think like he's barely barely draftable. I think some of these guys were talking about Pierce Shamar Stewart. There's going to be huge ranges of guys. What before we leave the lineman, I did want to mention Donovan at Zaraku of Boston College because I think he was a guy that came in people wondering how the athleticism would be because his tape is quite good and he really seemed to check

His drills were good too. He was in my honorable Mentions. I want to fit him into there as well. It wasn't great one hundred percent consistent, but you could see it.

That's great.

And Derek Harmon, the interior guy from Oregon, only ran the forty kind of a borderline first rounder, but he did run the forty fast. And then Princely Uma Mayan, what do you think about him?

Him and Harmon actually had similar workouts and when it came to the drills, because there were reps where you're like, oh, it's there, like I totally see it there, but it was just inconsistent. It was sloppy reps here and there, it was stubbles. It was just a lack of like control in some of these situations that you want to

Yeah, he looked like a little stiff, but a big vertical, a big broad and a guy who looks like he could be a real pass rusher, like a situational I mean, he's got some juice on tape, and so I was curious how he would do. All right, let's get to the linebackers. I think I know where you're going with at least one of your offe.

Yeah, it's weird group.

You know, looking back last year, we had Edge Cooper in that group, and like he was one of those guys that you compare it with the tape and you could see in the workout where I was like, he's going to make a difference.

And he did.

That guy didn't really exist in this group. The best guy, I'm surprised. The best guy I found was Giad Campbell from Jihad. Campbell from Alabama. I thought, you know, he ran a four or five to two, ten to seven broad jump and he lived up to the reputation of guys who rely on speed. Aflows isn't to make their plays. He also was a guy who played different spots because Alabama was so deep at edge with guys like Dallas Turner.

Okay, but that's why we got shook in the building to tell us gidd Campbell's staying late and he's doing.

The edge rusher.

I from my vantage boy on the couch watching on TV, I thought he had a great day, and because maybe it's a position where he's so clearly the best off ball linebacker. I mean, his his athletic numbers were pretty crazy for his weight to run a four or five to two and all the other athletic testing scores were eighty five ninety percent, and he has really good tape.

Man.

I know teams don't want to draft three down linebackers too early, so he's he's a first round pick.

We'll see how high he goes.

But the fact that he's so clearly the best that his position this year probably is gonna help him and so so to me, he felt like one of the biggest winners from my advantage because I.

Had to do team fits and stuff with this, and the first team I thought about was the Browns because they don't they may not have Jok again based on his net issue, and if you need a guy who can kind of be a rusher but also is rangy and athletic to cover a lot of space like Jok has done for the Browns, it's like the perfect fit. It's just that where they're picking and what they need,

Okay, I love that LSU is Braden Swinson. By the way, in eddres Scher, I just thought I like the way he was moving than around.

I mean, no scout, but I think.

He landed in some of my notes.

It's funny because like a lot of these guys, it's kind of varying on notes. And then Campbell was like halfway through, I was like, Okay, he's definitely making the team. Like he's definitely gonna be on the list. Now I need to figure out the rest of these guys, and a lot of them like Swinton, like I have one

Okay, so that there's a bunch of the winners, we don't need to do losers from the combine. I guess the combine slightly was a loser because of all these guys who are now not testing, you know, some had injuries, some just said it was a personal decision. Jalen Walker, for instance, who's looking like he could be anywhere from pick two to you know, he could be top ten, more of an edge rusher, but also would have worked out with the off ball linebackers like he didn't work out,

Yeah, and you know, the stress reaction in the foot that concerns me.

I think about like past players or dealt with footagehes and think about like Sammy Watkins and his foot is shoes, Like it's something that I feel like you want to get taken care of now, as opposed to you know, letting it all right. Well we're just gonna move on without it. It's not causing me any pain. Well, what if he gets worse and then that causes concern with teams in your draft stock falls?

You know you want well, you want to do that pro day. That's the thing is he wants to put up some big numbers.

Especial because he' off that shoulder injury that was plaguing him throout the playoff.

Yeah, and then maybe you maybe you get it after that. But that's that's just something we'll be tracking throughout the process. Drew Rosenhaus, By the way, big winner uh on NFL Daily because he stopped me outside of seat almost and said he appreciated the one on one listen.

And so uh oh that's going to stick with me.

Look at that feather and Greg's cap.

There we go, before we go, just a couple of little not even little. They usually would be leading the show with this a couple of items from the rest of the league that the Chiefs plan to use the franchise tag on Trey Smith. That was according to Ian Rappaport, I am curious. You know they did tag and trade l Jerius Snead last year, so Greg, it's possible.

Give me my flowers. We did it on the tag primer. I told you they.

Yeah, you know, there's different opinions, and you were right. And Trey Smith number two on my top one on one. He will not make it to free agency. Neither will t Higgins, who's number one. That's usually how these things go. And then looks Matthew Stafford. I'd put him number one if he was a if he was just a free agent. That's how much quarterbacks matter. A lot lot going on in the Stafford world dueling reports since we've last uh taped.

Just a lot of rough stuff.

But anyways, either way, these guys are meeting, the Raiders are really pushing.

I thought it was interesting.

Vic Taffer from The Athletic also said the Raiders aren't interested in Darnold at are all, which might inform.

How interested they are in Stafford.

So this thing is moving forward to the point where you're like, wow, like something's gonna happen. But at the eleventh hour, here we hear from rap Sheet and a couple other places too with similar in Pete Schrager too with a similar reporter that McVeigh and Stafford have talked over the last twenty four hours and don't count out the Rams from getting this done, and maybe the leverage of it all and maybe they meet in the middle. To me, it feels nick and I'll end my long

Know, And I had this conversation with some people last night. The fit doesn't make sense for the Raiders unless you're Tom Brady, because Tom Brady knows one speed, which is win, and I want to win now. But like, if you look at that franchise, they're not just a quarterback away, and you acquire Matt Stafford when you're a quarterback away,

I think the backup plan is Aaron Rodgers and or Jimmy Garoppolo for what that's worth. Frightening, Yeah, it's really fascinating.

I agree.

And yet it's not just Stafford, it's Pete Carroll and Stafford and a better front office. So they would be trying to win right away. And we've seen teams turn things around fast. You gave a perfect example in the Commanders. Now, are you competing for a Super Bowl like the Rams could potentially do? No, probably not, but you could be winning games, and I think that's an attractive option.

But winning yourself out of a draft position for your successor there could be long term ramifications. I guess this is what you tied yourself to when you hired Peek Carol though.

So I think the decision for Stafford and we'll see, will be something to the effect of how much money less do I take to play for the Rams. Like basically, if I'm getting sixty from the Raiders and forty from the Rams, I'm probably going, you know, like that's too big of a gap to make up.

I'm going to do this thing with the Raiders.

If it's fifty three for the Raiders and I can get the Rams to go up to forty five and guarantee some money into year two, maybe that's close enough for me and both sides are happy. We will see you know, poor Eric, you know he's got to take care of it his infant son. And we're going to be on Stafford Emergency podcast watch Nick Chuck, thank you very much. You will be on the coverage on NFL dot Com doing this all combine team, taking notes in the stadium all weekend.

Good luck to you and stay healthy.

The marathon has only begun, and I hope that I don't have to get another plane with the flu like I did when I left New Orleans.

I hope that too, I had that same experience. Like I said, we're going to talk to Nate Tye about some players to watch for the next three days of combine workouts.

We'll do that right after the break.

Okay, we are here with one of my favorite people in the business, hell favorite people in the country.

I'm not going to go international with him. It's Nate Tice of Yahoo Sports.

Football three oh one check it out wherever you get your podcasts.

Is great to be with you, Dan, great to be here.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

I maybe have not a leader of the category of countries that use the metric system. Mmmm so yeah, just the United States, though I'm very happy to be on the leader part.

It's funny.

So, okay, we we had, you know, the first workouts of the combine. We're taping this before and we're gonna do a preview of the rest of the week of the skill positions and talk a little offensive line, little defensive back. But I gotta be honest, like when we did that, when we did the episode I did with Tom Peli Sarah talking about like my top one oh one. We had done that a few years ago, and I almost wanted, I don't know what it says about me.

But this way we can go back and forth.

Little are there any are there anyone's on the free agent list that you thought were too high, too low that you want to make fun of me.

No, I'm glad you had Milton Williams very high because I feel like, one he's gonna get really he's gonna get paid. So that also makes you look smart. I like your DJ Reid ranking. You had him at twelve. I actually really like that. I think he's kind of gone, you know, under the radar. I think he could be a very good number two for some NFL teams.

Agree with you.

Oh you know, this is one where I'll send out lists and I get some feedback and I'll be like, oh, you're probably right.

Like I'll move up DJ read a little bit. People love them some DJ Read.

He's good.

I thought Justin Reid might be a little higher. You have a twenty six I because he's just a very sound safety and could do a lot a lot. Well maybe not a star, but there's a lot of teams right now that maybe struggle on the back end because they got at a little too cute on the back end, and Read kind of really like makes cleans things up in a lot of people like his leadership.

Ste He's also a rare dude that can thrive specials.

He's thrived and literally changed and shored up two different defensive systems and is young. That is a combination that is very rarely in free agency. I think I'm scarred because I always rank safeties really high on this list because like, they matter, and I'm ranking guys based on how they are at their position, and it happens, right and they just get like six million dollars and they're sitting out there for two weeks.

But you're right, justin read's great.

No, I liked a lot of these, Like it's hard to because there's guys that like, okay, even right now as I'm scrolling, like Josh Myers, you have a thirty seven. It's center for the separate packers, and I think they're very fine with moving on from them. They they might get creative at that position, which is kind of something TVD. They might move Zach tom over to center, like from right tackle, which is something to keep an eye on.

But the best tackle in the league that Will Anderson faced apparently according to Will, which I thought was a cool answer.

That was a cool answer, I know, and It made me go, man, I got to ask that question more, who's the best player you've played against?

It's such a stable question. But Kevin Clark that Yeah, it was a great Kevin Clark question.

No.

With Myers, though, it's like, oh, yeah, he's thirty seven, But yeah, that's actually fair, you know. I mean just because based on this free agency class, like he is an above average I actually might have him over Dolmen after Dolmen, but it's some like I'm saying.

With Falcon Center, which is who's getting a lot of buzz, It's like a guy who was the top of the maybe interior.

Line because I'm scarred by the twenty twenty three Falcons so much in my hype for them, And then I think Dolman's play was very inconsistent that year that I still have that, and the last year he battle a little bit of injuries and I like him, but it's like, if you go between him and Myers, I'm kind of like, yeah, either pick either one. I would have them a little bit closer, I would say for that.

In Bill Simmons parlance, no one lost more money on their twenty twenty three Falcon stock than you.

You kind of went all in. You did settle it as it was sinking.

Yeah, you stuck with it and hard and now you still stick with Arthur Smith just a little.

I do, I'll do, yeah, Arthur Smith. And then I was very excited to see a little Desmond Ritterer with the Raiders. So yeah, that was the last remnants of that team. Yeah, they were there. It's also I took the last three chips I had, you know, after losing most of it on the Falcons that year, and put him on Drake May, which is like those.

You've got a million wins, a wide portfolio.

You almost podcast as much as me. Your one, your one, you know.

Oh no, it was no, it's one. I've learned a lot from that one.

It was like it taught me how to like, hey, you know, you gotta be realistic about where you have. You have these guys tiered, but I don't even going back, Like it's kind of great because I can go chronologically, but like Chase Young at forty one, I don't know, like ranking wise, where I would even put him if I were to do a top one hundred or one hundred and one. But he's so interesting and I thought your write up was perfect, like kind of like the

So I hope, I hope he gets a good year. I don't know what the word is, smarter. I think Clowney got better and better as he got older. I always thought he was underrated, So to me, he has a poor man's did that be in clowny? But and he have that sort of career because I think there's frustrations where he's going off script a little. He has signed pretty big negative plays along with all that pocket pushing. But a fun player to.

One, Yeah no, and that's that was the Saint's kind of as a whole.

A lot of guys, especially on the back end then you know, maybe a little indifferent to tackling and everything. And I told you just before the show, but I love that you're one.

Oh.

One was Nick Chubb because I just thought that was a great shout out. But another guy I actually cares DeMarcus Lawrence.

One.

I didn't realize he was thirty three, so that's maybe on me out though maybe he was thirty one or thirty, but it makes sense. He's been in the week since fourteen. Uh, he's a guy too. I always thought he's a very good run defender as well. But he's another guy that can like could be a nice contributor for somebody on a one year deal, like I think kind of people because he got hurt, is kind of just he goes kind of goes him in my.

Top twenty at first, and then I looked at the history of guys off Liz Frank injuries that age, and so I just bumpedhim down there. One of my favorite players of the last ten years. I thought he was so underrated for a long time, and then he was properly right. People understood that he was like hull of very good, one of the best Cowboys.

In the last twenty years, the most consistent defense, and so yeah.

He could end up having that Kalaeis Campbell like, oh wait, he's still really good. Oh wait, he's still underpaid for the next four or five years. So I hope I'm wrong. They're one of my favorite plays, all right. I want to get to the prospects the top fifty. So good, let's get to the prospects. So let's go in chronological order. Okay, Friday's the defensive backs in tight ends. We haven't talked about the tight ends at all on the show. It's a fascinating class and I'm going to use some of

You know what's funny is I interviewed Tyler Tyler Warren at the Super Bowl and you.

Know who he I don't know.

I can't remember if the question was who he compares himself to or who he studies. And I think you'll like the answer, Jeremy Shockey, Yeah, which I was like, Okay, I love that answer, and then he said Kittle was the other one.

And that's where some comparisons too.

Well.

Obviously with tight ends, it's an athletic position.

So you want these guys to test like freaks, and then if they don't test like freaks at USO, I'll go okay, we got to go back because they will.

Loveland tests like a freak.

Yeah, he can run, you know, he has some movement ability a lot like Laporta. I actually even think he like his film was even slightly better than laporter coming out of college.

Maybe the last year's philm.

The one thing with the Michigan guys is they all dropped off this year and it might be the post Harbaugh hangover. It might be Ben Herbert, their strength coach left and now he's with the Chargers. I actually got to interview Harbor yesterday, but out he was my strength coach at Wisconsin, Ben Herbert, so it's like, oh, I actually know this guy, but.

He's had a big impacts.

So all those Michigan guys kind of took a step back this year, and that's why everyone's trying to gauge. It's like twenty twenty three was great, so loved one's included with that, and that was poor quarterback play. He went from going with a first rounder and JJ McCarthy to insert quarterback name here that Michigan had this year. But Lovelin is more of a receiving only tight end,

Another badger, but I've.

Ted on Jeremiah's lessened a little rich for this kind of play.

That's kind of profate when for tight ends.

For me, if you can't, if I don't project you in line, I can't bump you too high, I look at you more in the twenties, and that's where I kind of I've loved one.

Maybe in that eighteen to twenty four range.

I haven't solidified it yet, but who knows how you'll test, But I still think that's more and more comfortable Warren though I get he's a little older, but the thing is too, is that he has potential to be a true in line why tight end which are so hard to find, and he's a good receiver any great yards after the catch. That being top ten might be a little rich, I might say more as top fifteen, but still that's splitting hairs because he is that kind of talent.

Yeah, there's other guys too.

I mean you say that it's tough to put him in the top fifteen or twenty, but like Brack Bowers is quite an exception.

But he is an exception.

And this is something I'm I think coaches now are better than ever of like mitigating maybe lesser blocking tight ends.

Ben Johnson with Loveport is a great example.

Or Kincaid with the Bills, don't Kincaid Like these guys are now they have learned to kind of go like, hey, let's keep what's not making block a defensive end.

Let's do that.

So maybe my stock where I usually bump a guy down because they can't do that, it shouldn't They shouldn't get as bumped down as much.

They shouldn't get as much of a blemish.

On them, and people shouldn't get bumped down as much if they have a profile like Loveland, so Loveland from Michigan, as you mentioned player, if they've put it on tape a year before that they're coming out. It's much like how I view my free agency list, like if that's already out there and there's other factors that caused the year before free and Scye, no matter, it's like, you know, he can do it. He should get just as much credit. If anything, he was younger at that point. If it's

You want the greatest film to be the best film, but you're supposed to great guys from their best and latest, like you're supposed to.

Look at both.

And then Mason Taylor.

Really like him.

Yeah, I think Daniel had him as a top forty guy, which is I'm going to have him kind of comparable, Like he's gonna be easily in my top fifty.

I really like it.

In Arroyo, is there like anyone you're looking for this week?

How they well both Royo is not going to work out so which kind of a shame because I think he would be kind of freaky. Numbers, Mason Taylor, I want to see you know Gunner Helm from Texas as well. You might have a big one too, But all those guys. Also Harold Fannin from Bowling Green, who is just a one of what have you watched him at all?

Or noue? Yeah, I'm catching up, bro.

So Fannin is so he let the country in receiving.

That's tight end in the man. Numbers are crazy, they're insane. And he runs like a duck like he is. He's duck footed as they come, and he runs like that. He catches everything he's He breaks the first tackle every single time, and not just against the MAC, against Penn State, against Texas, A and M. But I don't I like him, but I have no idea what to make of him. Like I I know he's not an inline guy. He tries blocking though he's actually an okay blocker, but he's

Is that he might not test really well even though.

He's gonna run the forty like a duck.

That's why I'm I have no idea, and that's what I that's what I'm curious about. I think he's a better athlete he's getting credit for because his body control. But who knows. But that's what I think. That's why people don't know what to do with him. But I'll end up with him in my top fifty. But it's just like, I don't even know what to do with him. I but I've I've considered him a like an Alex He's not a full back, but use him like Alcan Gold or Kylie us Check where it's like you're doing

Of needs to end up with like one of the eighteen Shanahan core coaches, right.

But now they're becoming all sem Payton like tree coaches like that. One's kind of proliferating everywhere.

Now it's a lot of it. Hell, he's got like GM's over there, you know, Darren Moosey.

With it, just like seven Champayton coaches now like, I know that's the new.

Tree defensive backs.

They always fly, they're paired with the tight ends on Friday. Are there any of the top fifty guys that you think is especially important Will Johnson, he's eleventh from Jeremiah Michigan. Like some questions about how how Hill tests he had today Baron higher than I expected, kind of compared him to to Brian Branch, Like that type of player going that high he had him in his top ten is interesting.

Who else are you looking at defensive backs?

I'm glad he brought Will Johnson.

Will Johnson was my player overall one in the mid season and because I was Again he's a Michigan guy where his twenty twenty three tape was great and then early twenty twenty four it was kind of up and down, but he battled injuries and now character stuff's coming out. So like I even said this on our show, is that he kind of has the trifecta of Combine Week. So he's got clear his medicals, his interviews have to go well, and then he has to test well. Because

A true number one corner, which is so hard to find. But he he's got to.

Kind of prove a little bit to kind of get back to that status, I think in the eyes a lot of people.

But this is kind of a fun class. I mean, Sean.

Ravel from East Carolina, but he's not gonna do anything, but his medicals have to clear through.

And of course Travis Hunter, which is who's star of all stars.

You since the.

Maybe it's just Jeremiah and Andrew Berry, the Browns general manager. But I just have this feeling as we get closer to the draft that more people are gonna think of him as.

A wide receiver because he's so good at that position.

Even Matt Harmon yesterday was just like, are we sure he's not a full time receiver because his skill his ball skills are rare, like truly rare.

It's just if I'm evaluating it's more reliable. Cornerbacks are so hard to evaluate. But I guess he's not. You're pretty sure about it.

Yeah, No, he's he's gonna be player one because even if he was just a corner, he's number one player on.

The board because its size though.

That's and that's what we're pretty bigs me at receiver too, is like I think of how many top ten.

Receivers have been some.

DeVonta Smith, and what's happened with Wattle and Smith that you're getting hurt. It's like and again DeVante's I love Toante Smith, but he's a high end two, you know. And and but those guys like that's what worries me too about the reps is if people are like, oh, we're doing both tel well and that's how he moves, like and Odell was outside the top ten, he was yeah yeah, but what happened to Odell got hurt and so him playing both ways, that is what scared me.

So at that point I was trying to like tackle, running backs even exactly.

But then all of a sudden, you're a receiver getting shot, battling press. You know, you're not just taking a rest out there, You're like working on those running another go. And it's not college goes where it's eighty percent. Sometimes

So that's where I have a little worries.

But I do still think that he's special enough that he should get that package place.

So it should look like Dean Wing's with the Cowboys. That's what she'll look like. Okay, that's how I picked that.

Well, we'll see.

I mean, I think it'll be really interesting because I think different teams will view him differently, so it'll it'll exactly maybe matter where.

He ends up.

Because to me, Dionne, you know, you didn't make that much of an impact as a receiver ultimately.

Right, there was a couple of years touchdowns. It's kind of cute. Yeah, it was kind of cute exactly.

Maybe Cavante Turpin's receiver value, right, I always wanted them to use more fastest player in the NFL.

They should resign him.

All right, We've transition to the receivers, and it's a weird group because after Hunter, like some of the top picks like Buca Luther Burden are more like slot guys. Even Matthew Golden from Texas is maybe like, okay, you can see him starting in the NFL, but it's maybe more like the dependable guy. So from the outside that these guys' profile to me is the combine is going to be very important because you worry that maybe some of them won't test as well.

Like who are you looking for? You excited to see this?

I want to see Ted McMillan run receiver from Arizona. I love him. I'm kind of one of these are I'm starting to ask more people.

It's like, am I missing something here with him? And classic big guy?

Because where people are citing separation stats without context of their quarterback situation all that that's a whole nother conversation but I want to see him run because I think if he does run, well, he'll kind of like silence a lot of people because that's the one hang up, especially as a big guy. But I love him. I think he's just like if he goes top five, I wouldn't block.

I get it.

There's some negative whisper campaign about him, not characters so much as just how much does he love it effort that sort of stuff, which is very diff to parse from because.

I watched it.

He tries to block, and he runs his routes one hundred percent, so that's like even they're getting blown out, he's like going like taking like you know, some of the routes are just like for the love of the game.

He's still doing it.

So like that that's why I don't I don't agree with some people that have been saying that, like I, yeah, he's one that I really liked. And then so I usually during the season will watch three games sometimes four, and then with him, watched three games, really liked him, had him a tot tim guy, and then I watched three more games the last couple of weeks.

I just bet I love him.

Like yeah, yeah, I think he actually on our last monk, we had the Patriots trained down and then taking him, which I'm usually an offensive line bulk first trenches first guy, but I think McMillan's that kind of a true number one upside that it's fine to take that splash.

Whether it's right or wrong.

I feel like the insiders like stock of tech mcmill and again Arizona wide receiver the odds on favored to be the first wide receiver taken, but it wouldn't be a shot, you know. I think crazier things have happened if he slipped. I feel like people now think maybe, at least as we're sitting here in mid February, that he could slip a little further than the mocks.

That's what's kind of seeing right now. Yeah, we're thinking, yeah, I know, and that makes me feel crazy. That's what thinks is I when I a lot of myself film only, and then I this week is when I maybe started actually talking to guys. Usually senior role week is maybe start talking to teams, Hey, what about this guy? Anything like that. And that's why where I'm like, Okay, now

But too much of Patriots by the way, like.

People have just been putting Will Campbell the attack and this will be a big week for him tackle.

You might have short arms. It's like Rashaan Slater had short.

He's built like rashot while you're actually a lot.

Of people putting you know, him to the Patriots at four and I just think Mike Rabel is making that pick. And I think Mike Rabel's gonna want like a physical freak and I don't know if that's that guy. And so people it's almost like people think, oh the Patriots, Oh yeah, they're fine on defense, they're fine anywhere. No, they find a quarterback, and to me, they seem more like a team that would take a Jalen Walker who's

What are your thoughts of maybe like where they could be, Like, yeah.

I had I was one that I had Will Campbell going there for I really like Campbell and even like with him, I'll just start with him first before addressing the Patriots situations, because you're right, it's like they could go Eddie Path. I'll be like, yeah, makes sense with Campbell. I I do think he's actually got a little more grit to him and actually is he's so smart and that's what's really stood out to me.

Like he's a true leader.

And that's why I think a team like the Patriots that needs everything, they're trying to build from ground zero, Like he's a culture builder, and so he might only end up being a good tackle if he stays out of that there. Maybe not that true ele guy, but he's more of like a tone center for everybody, and not just his physical side, but more of like how he goes about data, his makeup as the baseball baseball scouts like to.

Say, last time I heard someone like make a profile of that of a number four pick, it was Cleveland Ferrell with the Raiders.

Like Campbell's tape is much better. He's stern left tackle.

That was the moment where everyone was like hoo, and they're like, no, he's yeah.

That's right. No, that's a great point though.

No, but Campbell's more in that and better athlete people give him craft for That's why I don't think the long the arm length is as worrisome maybe as with other people, because his footwork is so good and his technique so good.

So now I really like him.

But for it it's the context of he's my old lineman one.

But he would have been like, oh, lineman four last year, you know.

So it's like I would have been more comfortable taking him in the teens, like that's where his real slot should be. But because of where this draft is with the Lion, there's a lot of good lineman. There's not a lot of like those elite prospects, so that kind of makes him.

Also, it seems like a draft where maybe it's not the best draft to have the fourth pick because there maybe isn't that pick of difference between the fourth and a cross pick.

Want you want that, you want a teens pick, you want like an early teens pick in this row.

I got sidetracked by the Patriots as I wanted to do. Let's go back to receivers too, because so Saturday, just to set it up, that's the big skill position day, quarterbacks, wide receivers, and running backs. In the time that we have left with you, I do want to hear about some of the wide receivers and the running backs, especially that you're interested in why you're you're looking at them this week specifically.

Yeah, well you mentioned to Meca Buka and really like him as a dirty work guy. But the thing is Steven talking about the Patriots, they do not need another guy that's necessarily.

It's just everyone.

I'm just laughing because it's like, yeah, but he Abuka just he's a two. He's like a number two receiver, that is what he is. But he just does everything well, lines up inside outside, not sure how he'll test, and that's what he might be a low four to five guy, which again is splitting hairs. But again if he has a big day, that's going to really help him. Burden, I've been up and down on Luther Burn from a zoo.

I mean other than that, though, like do you have.

Any little like mid round like te special sleepers.

With the deep stuff.

Xavier Estreppo from Miami. I like him.

He's a slot only guy, but he'll probably be a number three, but I like him as like a third rounder. I would say, I like Will Shephard, who's not here actually from Colorado. He was the other Colorado receiver is that I don't know. He has some drops, some mistakes, but he's another just ball when type. And I would say the last one was Tory Holton from Colorado State. Battles some injuries, but I man, his twenty twenty three film is just awesome.

Like one of them.

I had him in my initial top fifty going into the season. He battles some stuff, injuries and stuff, but he's another one. Tory Holton is a guy I'm keep.

My honest, So it's not a good wide receiver class overall in terms of like top end talent, it's an incredible running backs class overall. Obviously Ashton Genty's not working out here, but a number of other of the top fifty players from Daniel Jeremiah, Amari and Hampton from UNC he's got him all.

The way up to nineteen. Big guy. I love a big, versatile guy.

I mean that is that is my type, going all the way back to Ronnie Brown, who I know we share a fondness for Trevon Henderson at thirty five, the Ohio State back. His teammate Judkins Jeremiah is him at thirty seven. You know Caleb Johnson he has in the top fifty. So to me, running backs are some of the most fun watch ahead of time, certainly one of the most fun this week from.

My favorite position to Evao, I really just like watching a good run. It's so fun.

Who's sort of a tights player? And also this week you think it's important like at the combine.

Well, Hampton all the way is a tye player, but like this stock is couldn't get any.

Higher right now.

He reminds me a lot like Joe Mixon, Like that would be kind of my comparison for a big guy all three downs, Like I really like Hampton a lot, Devin Neil from Cancoe.

Mixon as a prot was just for the on.

Just strictly on field. Yes, he was.

Extremely problematic because of what he came into the league with, But I remember that class which was incredible when I studied those guys hard and thinking, man, it's McCaffrey and Mixing are kind of one A one B for the one field and just the violence of his cuts, and

It was way too low.

And now it's it's not all the way back to where you know Rockney Brown, but it'sn't a nice little area. It's a balance where these guys actually get value to life. Because that was crazy because those were like really great prospects. It's not like they just happen to turn out with great players college films.

He went high.

But yeah, I know, but it's some of the most fun film you'll ever watch of any position, but that, Yeah, I think we're getting back to where there should be properly assessed.

I think not quite that class, is it or is it getting closed?

I would say it's more it's no, it's not that class because it doesn't have a like genty's pretty high end, but it's more.

Yeah, the round two town's kind of.

Similar though, Like there's a lot of guys that could be number one with another like at two behind him, but like even going with Neil, Neil is like a round I might go round two guy with him, but he's probably just gonna just miss my top fifty or just barely beget inside of it.

But another three down guy that I really like.

Not going to give him the Mollelede more cop because I just hold that one very very that's a dear near and dear one to my heart. But no, but he's I just really like him. Good size, he had a good Senior Bowl week as well, but good vision and everything. So he's kind of my mid round guy that I've like, I've grown a fondness for him and Phil Anderson.

Running back comp of all these guys of someone that they remind you.

Of Okay, I said all it more about Ashton Genty reminds me of Ontario Smith.

Okay, the Wiza, I mean, you would not have gotten taken top five, very talented, but he.

Had first round grade. It was just the off field stuff that managed that my dad could take me. That was my dad's money.

We'll always bring it back to the old school.

Because I know, I'm I know my audience right now. I know I know you will appreciate this. It's like when I go on Bomadi Shell. He just has me on to just talk about nineteen ninety eight.

Like football, I'm trying to remember Ontario Smith, like as a receiver, I don't as well.

He has a touchdown against the Cowboys Week one, two thousand and three.

You can see it a little bit.

It runs a little angle route on there. No, but he Ontario was a huge recruit. I want to say, like a Gatoray player. The year went to Tennessee. It's kicked out Tennessee when they were pretty reckless, and at that time goes to Oregon AND's had all this character stuff. And then that was especially when when the league was so much harsh on guys that smoked weed. So like that also didn't help and then especially when you have

Like who do you think he'll have a particularly good week this week of a good running back? Just that like okay, coming out of this people maybe are a little higher on it.

Could be one of the Henderson maybe. Yeah, And his tape is so he's gonna have a role in the weak for a decade.

Because he's such a good pass protector and you can catch and you can take any ball to the house. So it's like he's to me, he's not that ideal one, but it's like I want him part of my backfield. But he I think he's gonna run like the wind, so he'll just kinda keep rising, rise and rising when you could just do that, wake up and do that.

And that's kind of how his play is.

By the way, on a Buka who he mentioned the Ohio state wide receiver slot guy couldn't have a higher recommendation from Phil Wesseling, Chris Westling's brother, who is my Ohio they whisper and he's never wrong about the Ohio state prospect. Now, granted, they all turn out good, so it's like, but there are some I kind of read between the life.

Some they're higher on than others.

And he just he promises even more than Smith and Jigba at the time, just as much. He's like, I promise you he is gonna have a great long career.

People sleeping on him. I just I'm a sucker for that skill set. But he's like a better vere. He's God, I know. But that's why I like Jalen Polk. But it's it's that. But it's that Robert Woods tire, that Chris Godwin's here, the power slot, that he's a Z that can line up inside as well, and he just does everything well.

I trust.

Issues with everyone that was into Jalen Poke is it makes you a.

Male better Because there's a lot of other people that like, oh.

Yeah, everyone liked Jalen Poke. Everyone thought that was a great pick. I love that trade down. Don't take Lad McConkie and get Poke. What great value. Everyone liked it. So it's like, well, the thing with him is like he's like a high floor you can't miss.

I love being like I.

Had Poking Lad next to each other on my big board. I think I'm like thirty five thirty six thing with Ladd. He has medical concerns which already showed up, and that's why he didn't go as high as the people. Like people are forgetting that his medicals are not great.

Okay man, but he' I'm not the one taking him. I loved to he led the league when he getting injured and like during the game and coming in and but in the end he played the whole season and was incredible. And so I don't want to hear about that. He's got medical He's got to get bigger and bigger.

That's it.

Not worried about it. That year alone was worth a high pick. I mean he was great.

He was I love him.

He could be a one.

You're you're the one in terms of prospect evaluation and kind of putting it all together and how it's gonna fit in the NFL. I love what you guys are doing football three oh one check Nate Tice outs with Matt Harmon Charles McDonald. So three of the smartest guys in the business. Enjoy your week here in Indianapolis. He sticking around. I am getting out of here, but we will be back on a Sunday night, kind of dropping Monday morning, almost like it's the regular season again.

That is when we will be back.

We will be recapping all the position groups that we just previewed, so it'll it'll almost be like a week one recap, except it's the combine recaps. To look for that in your feed by Monday morning. Until then, yeah, I think if the combine drills are over, just about football is back.