TURNOUT Episode 6: ‘There’s going to be some soul searching in both parties’

deep Cover. Our new season is about a lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago. He bribed judges and even helped a hit man walk free until one day when he started talking with the FBI and promised that he could take the mob down. I've spent the past year trying to figure out why he flipped and what he was really after. Listen to deep Cover on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you love movies, Well, I have the podcast for you.

Hey there, this is Mike d from Movie Mix Movie Podcast, your go to source for all things movies. Each episode explores a different movie topic plus spoiler free reviews on the latest streaming and movies in theaters. You'll also get interviews with actors and directors to take a look behind the scenes of your favorite movies. Listen to new episodes of Movie Mix Movie Podcast every Monday on the Nashville Podcast Network, Available on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, leaving this message for Katie Curic. This is for this week's episode of Turnout. I'm leaving my voting story. We're finally on the other side of the presidential election, and it's been, as promised, unprecedented because of highly engaged voters like you. I live here in Rule Tennessee, just outside Nashville. I'm calling you

from Connecticut, Virginia, Chicago, Illinois, and Santie, Ohio. You turned out in record numbers Dale, North Carolina, Michigan, Denver, Colorado, Rooklyn. When all is said and done, is projected to have the highest voter turnout rate in more than a century. A game mail from Kentucky. I have some special health needs. I'm blind. To live in the battleground state. I live in the suburb. I have voted both parties in the past.

My husband and I we voted. It was great to hear from so many of you this week who called in to share your voting stories. This really is a moment in history that will be talking about and analyzing for years to come. I'm nineteen years old and this is my first time voting in a presidential election. With COVID rates on the rise, I decided to vote by mail. We voted abstince T about two weeks ago and dropped

it off at our city clerks box. I have a twenty year old son who rushed home from college to get his ballot in the box. I voted early this year, back in September three weeks ago, two weeks ago, so I actually voted in person. In person on my birthday. My man ballot actually got lost in the mail, but after runing to my local election office, I was able to do a limited voting and there was no wait. We were in and out within under ten minutes, simple, easy, breezy.

Uh five minutes, but the line was moving smoothly. Had to wait in line for forty five minutes, about two hours. I was just glad I was able to vote early and get it out of the way. I wore my Ruth Fatikins for a T shirt. It was an excellent experience. Kudos to the arena and the NBA for making it happen. As a member of a marginalized community, it was just good to like have my vote count and my voice heard.

As cliche as it sounds, there's a lot of places in my life where you know, um, I don't always feel that way. I was able to check online tracked electronically, so I know that my local Board of Elections has already received my ballot. But I received a text message from the Register of Voters the very next day confirming that they were inter seat of my ballot. I'm good to go and that it will be counted. It felt so so great to finally be able to vote, and

especially in such a critical effection. I'm Katie Curic and this is Turnout. It's Friday, November six and today on the podcast a conversation I just had over Instagram Live with Brian Goldsmith. Now, Brian, many of you know, is a really good friend of mine. We used to do a podcast together. He worked with me at CBS, later at Yahoo. He helped me enormously prepare for my Sarah Palin interview my infamous or famous interview, depending on your perspective. And he's my go to guy whenever I have a

question about national politics. In fact, I tease him because he was grounded in high school for sneaking out of his room to watch c SPAN. Yeah, he's that big of a political nerd. So I thought it would be really instructive and helpf for us to do a post mortem on what happened this week. And since the news is changing so fast and furiously, we wanted you to know that we recorded this conversation at six pm Eastern Time again on Friday. So enjoy. Let's talk about the election, Okay,

so just give us a quick update. It feels like like, when are they going to call this thing? Um help us. I don't know why they haven't called it. I mean I think I know why, but it doesn't really make sense because if your Fox or the A P and you've already called Arizona, Um, Biden wins the presidency just with Nevada. Nobody who's looked at the numbers thinks that Nevada is going to flip back to Trump. So with Nevada and Arizona Biden hits to seventy, you know that's it.

Game over, fat ladies, sung, et cetera. Okay, if you're all the other networks you have, haven't called Arizona. Um, take a look at Pennsylvania, where Biden's lead is pretty substantial and is getting bigger, not smaller. Now, is there like an insane scenario with provisional ballots um contradicting you know, the historic patterns of previous provisional ballots, contradicting the counties from which they came. Yes, I mean I also could be struck by lightning right here, right now. That is

conceivably possible. But Biden is gonna win Pennsylvania. And once you've accepted that, you know, you get over to seventy, even under the count that ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN are keeping. And started to interrupt Bryant. But Arizona, it seems I haven't really looked at it in the last hour. I went to the grocery store instead. Arizona is it seems like it's tightening up? Um, isn't it a little bit? And I guess maybe in the event that Arizona gets too close to call um That's why maybe the networks,

as you said, are waiting for Pennsylvania. So, but he doesn't need Arizona. So even if you were to assume he doesn't need Arizona, but what I'm saying is maybe they're waiting for Pennsylvania, where he has a more sizeable lead, since they didn't call Arizona and not that Arizona. I don't know. Is Arizona a little up for grabs? I don't think so. I mean, everybody serious who's looked at this has said that, you know, Biden's lead may narrow

a bit. It's I mean, it's over one point now, it's one point three, um, and it may shrink a little bit. But I don't think anyone expects Trump to overtake Biden in Arizona. But okay, so let's but then even if you take even if you say Arizona is

too uncertain. And that's why NBCCBS, ABC, CNN have not called Arizona, you don't you know, you go over here to Pennsylvania and Biden's leader is about fourteen thousand votes and growing, and then you know, okay, I'm gonna dip down into that you know, where the rest of the votes are Um, you know, you still have a bunch

of Philadelphia votes yet to count. Yes, you have some provisionals, but they are not going to be strongly Republican enough to overcome the eight twenty margin that Biden is getting from a lot of votes out of Pennsylvania. I mean, I think there's actually, you know, most people think that Biden's margin in Pennsylvania is going to be significantly bigger in the end than Trump's margin was in that state four years ago when all the Republicans were proclaiming a landslide.

You know, was this election a huge repudiation of Donald Trump? When you see that the Republicans gained seats in the House. When you see that they it looks right now with a Georgia runoff expected to george to runoffs expected, uh, that they're holding the Senate majority. But yet the president uh wasn't able to pull it off. So was this really about Donald Trump and Donald Trump only? Well, it

certainly was not a huge repudiation of Republicans. Um. Republicans down ballot, you know, for the most part, seemed to outperform the top of the ticket a little bit. UM. Often you'll see the opposite um and In terms of the presidential race itself, Uh, Trump performed pretty respectively. I mean, he won Ohio, he won Florida, he won Florida pretty comfortably. UM, he won uh North Carolina. Um. He kept it close

in a number of the other key battleground states. Now, in terms of the popular vote, it's not going to be that close. I think Biden's on track to in the popular vote by five or six or even seven million. I think it's gonna be a bigger popular vote margin than Obama's over Romney in twelve. Um, But the electoral college, which is where this has really fought and decided, was was a bit closer. You know. I think Biden's on track for three oh six, which is precisely the numbers

we've discussed that Trump got four years ago. So I think there's gonna be some soul searching, frankly, in both parties about you know, what they got right and what they got wrong, and it's it's really a mixed bag for both You're right, I mean, I think President Trump did much better than a lot of people expected, and I think it just underscored once again how divided this country is that so many people still really felt more comfortable with Donald Trump than Joe Biden for a host

of reasons. What primarily do you believe were the reasons, Brian, I think it was primarily ideological. I think there were a number of voters who were uncomfortable with Trump personally and temperamentally. They had doubts about his capacity for the job, but they were convinced, based on their own predispositions to be kind of center or center right, that the Democrats were a little too extreme, that Biden was a trojan

horse for the radical left. I mean, I worked in Florida this cycle, and you know, we did seven or eight focus groups with Trump voters who were considering voting for Biden, and that argument resonated with them. They were scared by what they saw, you know, that the media

was focusing heavily on Bernie and Warren and AOC. You know, they had they had gone through this kind of summer of racially charged protest, of riots, of um, you know, defund the police, which is perhaps the worst political slogan in a mirror in history, with the possible exception of socialists, UM. And they heard both those things, you know, and I thought it was striking Abigail Spanburger, who's a congresswoman from

your home state or home commonwealth. I should call it right. Um, she was on this call with other House Democrats kind of hashing over the election return she barely survived. You know, she's from a tough red to blue district, and she erupted. And she's a pretty mild mannered, you know, national security professional, moderate Democrat, and and she just said, you know, unless we exercise socialism, defund the police, this kind of hard

left um stench from our party. Um, we're going to get you know, bleeping walloped or something to that effect. Uh in two years. And it is a problem. I worked at congressional race which is still too close to call in a Republican district, and it in California, And what are the Republican independent groups choose to focus on in the last two weeks of the campaign. It was defund the police. It was socialism, it was riots, it

was anarchy. And I think for a lot of you know, rightly or wrongly, for a lot of white swing voters in suburban communities, that whole line of argument was really scary. And I think, and you also saw finally in the exit polling the voters who decided at the end, just as in broke for Trump. Now we'll see how the exit poll evolves as it's kind of reweighted and adjusted

as we go. But I think that's pretty significant too, And I think that's probably a word of warning for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris in terms of how they

approach governing. If in fact, Joe Biden is elected as it appears, he will be uh that when it comes to you know, holding on of progressive principles is one thing like healthcare pre you know, fixing healthcare pre existing conditions, even universal healthcare, potentially something like the Green New Deal, as long as it doesn't put a ton of people out of work. I mean, I think all those things are going to have to be seen through a new lens,

don't you. Uh Not that they're not important issues to tackle, but it has to be done carefully, right yeah, I mean. And Biden was thoughtful during the campaign about distancing himself from some of these ideas. He did not endorse the Green New Deal. He said he had his own plan. He uh publicly repeatedly broke from defund the police. He said rioters should be prosecuted. Um, and he needed to do all of those things. Um. The question is why did he need to do all of those things. Why

was that even a conversation that was happening. And it was because some activists who were almost exclusively from deep blue urban areas. We're pushing those issues to the detriment of politicians who had to compete on much less friendly terrain. And in order for the Democrats to govern uh, to win the Senate, to have a significant majority in the House, they got to win a lot of areas that are center center right in this country, and this stuff is challenging.

I think that Claire McCaskill talked about that this morning. I saw her saying that the progressive wing of the party has to appreciate people who are running in much more conservative areas. I thought about my sister who was running for lieutenant governor with Mark Warner before she was diagnosed with cancer and had to drop out of the race.

But she was really good at kind of I mean, she was quite a moderate Democrat of of working with people in Charlottesville, but also in larger Alba Marle County, which was quite know had a lot of conservative voters.

There as well. And you know, I think sort of we talked about it last night, Brian, sort of cancel culture and this self righteous smugness that you're an idiot if you don't see things my way, um, which I think can can feel like it's coming from uber uber progressives can be very off putting to more moderate voters. I mean, you can believe two things at the same time.

You can believe there is a history of systemic racism in this country, that systemic racism is a problem here now today that has to be addressed, that there needs to be more economic opportunity. Those are majority positions. Black Lives Matter has a majority favorability rating in the country. So you don't want to overlearn the lesson. You know, voters of color are the core of the Democratic Party. You don't want to push them away. But you also don't want to push away, Uh, the seventy of the

electorate that is white. Um, and that feels like, um, they're being blamed. Um, they're being excluded, they're being chastise or school You know. I don't know whether I told you this, Brian, but I saw I feel the same way that it is possible everything has become so black white left right that you can you can want to reform the police department and feel that that it's patently unfair that black men are uh subjected to profiling and

police brutality much more often than white people. You can also respect and appreciate what the police do and support Black Lives Matter. And there was a ben diagram that Billy Jene King put on her Instagram. I don't know if I told you this. It might have been David Brooks. I was talking to. I get all you guys mixed up, used for each other all the time, so anti semitic

of you, Katie in the middle. In the middle, it said me, and it was Billy Know And I thought, yeah, why why do we have to necessarily pick sides and say you're either pro police or pro black Lives Matter? And I guess a lot of um, you know, activists will say, well, you can't be both. But I think that's honestly where a lot of people are. You know, they want to respect and appreciate good policing and good officers and also help them be better officers and weed

out bad officers. And you know, but as somebody who is not a black person. You know, I have a different outlook and a different life experience, so I cannot necessarily, uh, you know, appreciate what it's like to be a black man in America, and so I understand the anger that has been built up over years and years and years of racial profiling and just late you know, out and

out racism. Anyway, I completely agree with that. But let me just say, if you listen to the voice is of black people, uh and Latinos, support for defund the police was actually significantly less among those groups than among the white left. This is uh more of a kind of white elite left issue than it is among actual black and brown voters. Um. You know, my favorite example of this is the term latin x um, which is, you know, the very kind of hip woke term for

Latinos and Latinos in this country. The only problem with it is if you actually listen to Latinos and Latinos Hispanics, they identify those terms with those terms, they understand those terms.

They don't know what latin x is. And Reuben Gayego, who's a Hispanic member of Congress from working class Latino district in Arizona, the day after the election, tweeted, you know one thing we've got to start doing, uh if we want to win over more Hispanic voters or Latino voters, is stop using the term latin X because they don't

understand it. Q did a pull that showed that only three percent of Americans actually, I think it was three percent of Latinos had ever heard the term or used the term latin X. So to me, that's like exhibit a of the disconnect sometimes between you know what our note is like extremely online people who are primarily upscale and white and urban, and the voters the Democrats need to win. Hey, it's Chuck Wicks from Love Country Talk to Chuck, where we bring you what's really happening in

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same big, giant, huge stars. But I think it's time bring some people in the studio right off the street. You love country music, fun, Come talk to Chuck. That's how cool we are. I'm just saying it. I'm saying it out loud. Listen to new episodes of Love Country Talk to Chuck every Monday and Thursday on the Nashville Podcast Network, available on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, y'all, this is Caroline Hobby, the host of Get Real with Caroline Hobby,

Honest Women, Honest Talk. I love podcasting. It is so much fun because I have the most in depth, spiritual, soul ful, real, honest conversations with women who are mothers, who are entrepreneurs, who have started their own businesses, who are married to celebrities, who are celebrity these themselves, these women are juggling motherhood, being a career woman starting their

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and Welcome to our Show. I'm Zoe de Chanelle and I'm so excited to be joined by my friends and cast Meats Hannah Sumone and Lamar and Morris to recap our hit television series, New Girl. Join us every Monday on the Welcome to Our Show podcast, where we'll share behind the scenes stories of your favorite New Girl episodes, revealed the truth behind the legendary game True American, and discuss how this showed made with the writer's, guest stars

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to say that was I tossed that one out. Listen to the Welcome to Our Show podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. So let's talk about some other uh lessons that we've learned here. So we've realized that that the socialism message, the antisocialism message, really resonated with a lot of voters.

What about the economy? Do you think that the Biden campaign made a strong enough connection between when getting COVID nineteen, getting the pandemic under control, and jump starting the economy. I think they tried. Biden gave a number of speeches and interviews on this topic. UM. I think they were aware of the challenge. I'm not going to fault what

they did or didn't do, but the net result was insufficient. Um. You know, even coming off the worst economic collapse in history, even with the worst jobs record of any president since Hoover. You know, Trump went into election day with a consistent advantage on who do you trust to handle the economy? UM, and that that was a problem. You know, the economy is usually one of the biggest issues, if not the

biggest issue. I believe that once all the exit poll data is kind of weighted and compiled, we will see that it's the biggest issue again. And and Democrats cannot lose on the economy. That's kind of the core of of of of who we are. We're fighting for more economic opportunity. And I sometimes worry, or at least I worried over the course of the Trump presidency that a number of Democrats were so distracted by the horror show of Trump UM that the message kind of boiled down

to this is not who we are. America is better than this. Trump's behavior is abominable. And a lot of people would agree with that, and then they would still support Trump because they thought that Trump was more able to deliver economic improvements for them, um, in their lives. And and so you know, a huge focus for Joe Biden from day one has got to be um helping

people rebuild economically, helping the country rebuild economically. And and this leads, unfortunately to the discussion about you know, in all likelihood, Democrats are not going to have the Senate, and it's going to be very, very difficult for Democrats to get things done legislatively. Having said that, as I said last night, is there a chance because of Biden's personal relationships with some of these folks that it will just be less rancorous and it will um or do

you think they're going to be complete obstructionists? You and I? Of course, I interviewed Mitch McConnell at Yahoo and asked him about saying, as soon as Barack Obama was elected, we're going to spend you know, our our number one job for the Republican Party is to make sure he isn't re elected, which you know, not even a honeymoon

period of saying what can we do together? In a course, healthcare pass with not one Republican vote, and so um, you know, are you do you have any optimism that after an exhausting four years, that the parties possibly could

work together. I think it is possible on a few issues that a few Republicans, you know, Susan Collins or meant Romney or you know, Republicans without any kind of national political ambitions, Republicans who are not afraid of their base, Republicans who do you know, feel a sense of responsibility to the country. Um, you know, may work with him

on those things. But I hope I'm wrong. I think by and large what the Obama presidency taught us is that the Republicans, for the most part, have decided that the best political strategy is to oppose the Democratic president at every turn. And therefore, when the Democratic president can't get certain things done um and gets no bipartisan support, the Republicans are able to blame him for those things,

and voters blame the president for those things. So you know, Obama, I think, over and over again, was willing to meet the Republicans halfway, sometimes even more than that. They weren't willing in many cases to move an inch. And yet the voters blamed Obama for being unable to produce you know, bipartisan legislative successes. So it's a kind of a cynical strategy,

of course, but it's an effective one. And I think you know, McConnell and most of the Senate Republicans are going to look very quickly too, when they have the opportunity to expand their majority potentially in the Senate, to win back the House, which is far more possible today than it looked, you know, before this election, and I think the obstruction strategy is going to feel like the

right strategy to them. And also with the runoffs, if the two Democrats win in Georgia, and you were saying before in another conversation we had that turnout is very difficult, uh, when you don't have a presidential election, so it might be more difficult. Although Stacy Abrahams has built quite an organization in Georgia, and I'm sure we'll be working very hard for these for these Senate races, It's not impossible. I think there's a chance. I do think there's a chance.

I think, you know, Biden's gonna win Georgia's so the votes are there. Um, But you know, do all those votes from a from a presidential election turnout in January for a Senate runoff, Maybe it's possible. Um. If I had to bet money, I would bet that the you know, the Republicans tend to turn out more Republicans historically do better in these off your elections because they show up UM over and over and over again. And Democrats tend to be tend to vote more intermittently, UM, and mostly

in presidential years. UM. And so you know, Biden certainly knows the stakes. UM. I don't think they're gonna want for money. I think Act Blue will funnel you know, millions and millions of dollars to these two you know, very impressive, attractive Democratic candidates. Uh. But I just I think it's it's a heavy lift. But but you know, we should try. We should certainly try. But I'm trying to give you honest analysis about what I think the likelihood is. By the way, a lot of people are

asking about Kamala Harris's Senate seat. Brian, Yeah, it's funny. I was just talking about this actually, UM on a on a different interview, And I think, Um, I think there are two front runners UM Newsom, the governor of California, gets to pick uh, commalist successor Vice President elect Harris. In my view, UM, and UH, I think those are Karen Bass, who was a runner up for the VP slot, who is an enormously impressive person, a master legislator. UM.

The first black woman speaker of the California Assembly. Um, you know, I know her, I like her. Should be a terrific choice. UM. And the and and by the way, you then get another black woman in the Senate to replace the only black woman in the Senate. Now. The second choice, who I think is probably more likely to get picked is Alex Padilla, who is California's Secretary of State, who would be the first Latino Senator ever from California. UM. That is, you know, hard to believe, isn't it. It

is hard to believe. And we're a majority minority state. Latinos are actually, by proportion of population, the biggest group in California, slightly edging out whites. UM, but in terms of voters have been quite underrepresented over the years. And I think, Um, the governor feels a deep sense of history. He also goes back a long way with Padilla, who actually and and the six junkies watching this will appreciate it.

When Newsom ran for governor in the primaries against Jerry Brown ten years ago, Alex Padilla was actually the chairman of Newsom's campaign. So they go back a long way. And I think, you know, and he's very impressive, and I think, you know, if I had to bet, he would probably get picked. Let's talk about turnout. Uh, I understand this is going to be the largest turnout in something like one hundred years. Uh. And um, I think people were more, perhaps more engaged in in this election

than they have in any election of my lifetime certainly. Uh. Do you have any idea about the turnout numbers. Did a lot of young people come out and vote, did a lot of seniors? Or is it hard to tell until all the mail in ballots are are are accounted and we can really analyze the people who voted. It's hard to tell accurately demographic by demographic. But I can't say overall turn out his way up. We know that, I mean, and on both sides, which is I think

a surprise to a lot of people. People were expecting a blue surge, they weren't expecting a red searge, and we got both. So you know, Trump is now just under seventy million votes. I think he got sixty three or sixty four million last time. Um, Hillary got I think sixty six million last time. Biden is now at seventy four million. I mean, I think he's gonna get to seventy five million once California is fully counted. Um,

so huge increase in turn out on both sides. And I would be shocked if it weren't, you know, driven by young people as well as older people. But um, you know the thing that the Trump people got mocked for um for years saying that they were going to bring out a lot more white non college voters. Um, it turns out they probably did. I think the Blue surge was was clearly bigger, and and and overtook them.

But you know, the Republicans turned out, and and and Trump supporters turned out and and and they're gonna be a force in our power. Takes a huge force for years to come. And I would not bet against anyone

whose last name is Trump in Republican primaries. In fact, I saw last night there was an article that said he had already been discussing by the way, I can't vouch for this, but it was I think media it saying that he had already been floating the idea of if he lost about running in I was going to tweet it and say too soon. I think it's very possible. I think it's very very possible, And a lot of people are talking about that. Um he uh, he would

be seventy eight, which is about Joe Biden's age. Um, he would want to of course avenge his loss. Um. I think if the Democratic nominee is Vice President Kamala Harris, he would relish the opportunity to have a full on race and gender war against somebody who symbolizes is the America that he is fighting against tooth and nail. Um. You know, David Axelrod had this great line that, you know, uh Joe Biden was very culturally inconvenient for Donald Trump.

And it's true. You know, working class kid from Scranton, p A. Not part of the sixties protests movement, not part of the woke squad. You know, it was very hard to demonize uh Joe Biden or to make him a scary figure. I mean, in fact, you know, Donald Trump bought himself an impeachment trying to disqualify Joe Biden because he knew, I mean give him credit, he knew very early on that Biden was going to be a deeply problematic opponent for him. Well, I don't think he

views uh Kamala Harris the same way. Now, he may be really underestimating her, and she may build an equally if not more powerful coalition driven by you know, different demographics. But I just think from the you know, from inside you know, humps kind of prejudiced, adult, heat seeking brain. UM. You know, I think the possibility of running against a woman and a black woman. UM, I think is probably,

in a sick way, very appealing to him. Let's talk about criminal charges that any of the Trump family may face. Is that a possibility at all? Given all the investigations that are going on in the Southern District of New York about you know, improprieties which his charities, uh, certain things that have been done taps wise. UM, do you

think that those will go anywhere? Yeah? I think they might. Um. I think you have the New York State Attorney General looking into Trump's business and his charity, his fraudulent charity. I think you have the Southern District of New York looking into this stuff. And I think the great unanswered question is, um, does Trump try to pardon himself? I actually have very little doubt that he's going to try

to pardon everyone around him. I think that's how he's going to try to buy the loyalty of all these people who haven't kind of you know, flipped to use the mafia parlance. Um. But I think it is it is kind of uncertain legal ground for a president to try to pardon himself. You know, that could go to the Supreme Court. Is Amy Coney Barrett the deciding vote on that. I don't know, can a president a president can in fact pardon himself for one day herself. Well, no,

no one has tried before. Nixon, you know, had enough propriety that he wouldn't even dream of trying. Um. But I don't think Trump respects these you know, these norms and traditions at all. Um. And so if it's a possible, I mean I certainly don't think Bill Barr is going to stand in his way. I think he's going to get a favorable opinion from bars Justice Department, um, and then it will probably be you know, fought out in

the courts. And and you know, if if there's anything we about Trump that you know, he pushes the limits and most of the time he gets away with it. Um. You know, you just can't even remember it like washes over us all of the stuff that he's done, any one of which would have been like a presidency ending scandal for previous presidents. And yet he just, you know, like old man River, he just keeps rolling along. And you know, I think, uh, I think he may try.

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to never miss an episode. Listen to Leave the Lit on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What about these claims of voter fraud that seemed to have absolutely no merit. It saddens me to see people on this live interview still claiming fraud. We've heard that there have been no incidents, or very few incidents, or I guess zero incidents. I'm sure there

have been some cases of sketchy things going on. I mean, can you really have an election with zero point zero cases of of kind of questionable voting behavior. There's got to be a there's got to be a few. But you know, no one has presented any evidence of anything significant.

I mean, I don't think anyone's presented any evidence of a single ballot in this cycle being you know, fraudulent in the sense that somebody tried to like double vote or cancel out somebody else's vote or something like that.

I mean, people make plenty of mistakes, of course, and we're seeing that all over Pennsylvania in a way that, by the way, advantaged Donald Trump, not Joe Biden, because you know, people had to kind of go through this complicated new procedure with an inner envelope and an outer envelope signatures, and I mean it was a whole it

was a whole thing. Um. But you know, I give great credit to Pat to me, the conservative Republican senator from Pennsylvania who went on the Today Show this morning and said, you know, there's no evidence for what the president is saying, and he ought to quit saying. He

ought to quit saying it. Um. But you know, there is a divide in the Republican party between you know, the retiring Republicans too, he's not running again in two who are being honest about this stuff, um, you know, or the or the retired Republicans who you know, many of whom supported Biden, and the Republicans with ambition, Um,

who are you know, in some cases fanning the flames? Now, I will say Kevin McCarthy, the House Republican Leader, went on Fox last night said that Trump won the election, you know, definitively said that Trump won the big Fox primetime audience. I think he was on the Lory Ingram Show. He then posted that on social media, knowing exactly what he said, spread it around, and then today walked it back.

Today he said he was misunderstood and what he meant was that Trump had won by helping down ballad, House and Senate Republicans, which of course was not what he meant. But I do think it's noteworthy that he felt the need to walk it back that you know, you you have the news voices on Fox who are mostly being pretty responsible here. I mean, apparently Trump is calling Rupert Murdoch and others and and yelling about the Fox coverage that they're not parroting his line that the whole thing

was stolen. I think Box, you know, on some level, is already looking a little bit past Trump and and they may actually have a you know, set aside whatever their Morald views are, they have a business interest and potentially being kind of the the opposition party because historically their ratings have gone up, knocked down one of Democrats and in the White House. So let's talk about the concession speech. Will it? Do you think there will be one?

I don't think there's ever gonna be one. That's my question. It's something, do you think if Donald Trump has lost that he really wants to go down in history as the most churlish, most bitter defeated president of all time. Um, it's it's such. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know better than being a loser, you know. I think for Donald Trump, there were always only two outcomes to this election. Either he one or it was stolen.

That was the only two. He was setting that. He was setting the foundation for that for months and months and months, despite the fact that mailan voting was always going to have to be a necessary thing, especially in the midst of a pandemic. I was watching John McCain's concession speech in two thousand and eight. I saw you posted that Larry Clinton's in two thousand sixteen, which someone said was not gracious and that could not be further from the truth. It was moving, but she was, you know,

very magnanimous towards Donald Trump. So you think what is going to happen in the next two months before the inauguration. I think he's going to be churlish and uncooperative. I think he's not going to like be physically dragged out of the White House. I think he's going to leave, but I think that is the most he will do. I think, and again I hope to death that I

am wrong. I don't think he's gonna uh send the message to you know, the dregs and crooks who populate his administration to cooperate in any sense with the the incoming administration. I think Biden, based on the combination of COVID and the economy and Donald Trump, is going to have by far the worst and most difficult transition of

any incoming president ever. I think Trump is going to say that, you know, the deep state plotted against him, the fraudulent votes, and and big media and big tech and all this stuff that he's using is what pushed him out of the White House. But he knows he won, and you know, he won, and this is all a fraud and Biden's illegitimate. Um. I don't think he's going to invite the Biden's in for the traditional coffee before the inauguration. I don't think he's going to attend Biden's inauguration,

and I'd be surprised if he did that. Uh, you know, traditionally, of course, UM, the outgoing president invites the president elect shortly after the couple of days after the election to the White House for a very civil and cordial meeting. You know, the last election like this was when Obama defeated Romney, and I think a couple of weeks after the election, Obama invited Romney in for lunch and they had a very by all accounts, a very friendly, cordial

conversation for about an hour. President Obama invited President elect Trump to the White House I think, two days after the election and had him to lunch, and and I just think he's gonna, you know, he's just blowing up all the norms and and that the real loser is our is our institutions and our democracy and public trust, and this is really dangerous stuff. Well, Brian, it's been

so fun talking to you about all this stuff. You guys can see why I always call all Brian when I have quite political Thank you, all right, I'll talk to you soon, bye, Brian. Turnout is a production of I Heart Media and Katie Curric Media. The executive producers are Katie Curic and Courtney Littz, Supervising producers Lauren Hansen, Associate producers Derek Clements, Eliza Costas, and Emily Pento, editing by Derreck Clements and Lauren Hansen, mixing by Derrick Clements.

Our researcher is Gabriel Loser and special thanks to my right hand woman Adriana Fasio. You can follow me in all my election coverage at Katie Currey. Meanwhile, yes, I'm Katie Currect. Thanks so much for listening everyone. We'll see you next time. Keney Jason here at three time All Star and Wolf sers Champ in California. Here's to the great American settlers. The millions of you has settled for unsatisfying jobs because they pay the bills. Of course, there

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