TURNOUT Episode 10: ‘If we raise our expectations we would have a better system’

back the hit podcast How Men Think. And that's good news for anyone that is confused by men, which is basically everyone. It's real talk, straight from the source. How Men Think podcast is exactly what we need to figure them out. It's going to be fun and formative and probably a bit scary at times because we're literally going inside the minds of men. Listen to How Men Think on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast us. I'm Katie Curic, and this

is Turnout. We started this series in the past understanding the origin and history of our ongoing fight for voter rights, and as we wrapped this series about an issue that doesn't look like it's going to be solved anytime soon. We want to consider its future. Where do we go from here, what lessons can we take with us, and what impact might this election have on our ongoing push

for a more inclusive democracy, a more perfect union. Because Americans saw up close precisely how the election system works, what its flaws are, there's a real opportunity finally now to mobilize around passing laws that actually shore up our elections and protect voting rights. Leader will explore the future of voting rights with a view of our previous guests. But first, how do we start to understand what we just went through? How do we put the presidential race

into context? To answer that we took a virtual trip to Appalachia. I have very little signal. I'm in a very mountainous area, and basically, if you're not in the same little holler with the power, that's that's it. Greg Cruey is a middle school social studies teacher. If you hear my new puppy bark, I've got a dog with we adopted with four or five months old, and it parks at everything. And it's his job to lay a civics foundation for our next generation of voters. To explain

our system, our elections, our democracy. I work in war West Virginia in mcdell County with sixth, seventh, and ninth graders, and I'm also the president of the American Federation of Teachers in mcdell County. I'm an activist, I'm a church musician. My husband, I'm a dog owner. Uh could go on. McDowell County sits in the southernmost edge of West Virginia and the central Appalachians. While it was once a center for cold production, it's now one of the poorest areas

in the country. McDow County is a place that has been robbed. Its natural resources were stripped away. Uh, and it was left with very little. And I'm talking, of course about coal. And the description I'm I'm giving probably describes most of southern West Virginia. It's a place of contrasts today. On the one hand, it's poor and on the other hand it's rich. At the same time it's it's economically depressed. It gives you kind of a rural rust belt feel. The families are torn up by drugs.

The opioid epidemic here is horrible. Grandparents are raising kids because the biological parents are often so strung out or in jail or bed. The people all the weight of worrying about how they're going to scrape by next month, and wondering who's going to din next, either from drugs or just a rest of poverty in their lives. On the other hand, there's a lot of pride that people feel about just being here and having made it in this rugged part of Appalachia. This is a community filled

with military veterans who served their country well. It's one of the highest rates of military service in the country. The community is salted with little churches that are far more concerned with loving and helping people than they are with politics. Uh and some of the nicest, most generous, most self deprecating people that you could ever hope to make to live in the communities around my school. McDowell County is home to about eighteen thousand people, the vast

majority of whom are white. I think McDow County has one of the largest black populations in West Virginia, but it's still only at ten or twelve percent. We're a very white community and in elections, this community tends to vote read. We have a very conservative community up here, and it's historically belonged to the Democratic Party, and we're in a transition at this point where it's becoming more and more acceptable to switch parties and call yourself a Republican.

I tell my kids today, we think of Democrats as being liberals and Republicans as being conservatives. But it's only been that way in my lifetime. They're probably more registered Democrats than there are Republicans, but of the county voted for President Trump. I've had kids this year come in wearing face masks that have Trump on them. Uh, and you know that's that's cute. Uh, that there's nothing wrong with that. They they look at me and they know

what I think, and it's it's interesting. They come in with sumper sticker sort of views of politics, with the you know, the Democrats are going to take our guns, we need to build the wall. They just they're on the Trump train, and they'll tell you, you know, they're on the Trump train, and it puzzles them if you ask why, you know, they don't they don't understand that there's a community of people out there in other parts

of America who aren't on the Trump train. I think that he is to get them thinking about issues, uh, not just people. They have to understand that it requires thought, that it's complicated. I try very hard to talk about issues and to to divorce those issues the parties or candidates and have them think about immigration, or think about gun rights, so or welfare, health care, the environment, uh, you know, and get them to see that those issues

are multifaceted and complicated. My goal is is critical thinking. I'm not trying to persuade somebody to believe one thing or another. I mean, these are little kids. I just want them to develop the skills that they need two understand what's going on and decide what they think is best and take part in the decision making process. But I teach the unit every year on fact versus opinion, and I keep it completely separate from anything that has

to do with politics. You know. I work very hard to get my students to be able to distinguish types of statement. Is that a statement of fact or is that a statement of opinion? And to fill an obligation. If they think it's a statement of fact, decide whether or not it's true or false a statement of fact. I tell them a thing that can be verified by sources that reasonable people can agree on, and um, it's their obligation if it's important to them to go find

out whether or not the statement is true. If it's a statement of fact, they can go look that up. If it's a statement of opinion, then it's their obligation to decide whether or not they agree with the person's opinion. I teach it every year and so for my kids, repetition is the heart of learning, and they get it three times in three years, and hopefully by the time they leave here they can tell the difference between fact

and opinion. Mr Creuey also teaches the importance of civic participation by example, which is why he doesn't shy away from showing how he engages in the election process. I had somebody comments that students should never know their teacher's personal political views, and I find that incredibly naive. My wife, who has a retired principle, and I are involved in mentoring kids were part of the community. We visit their churches.

We work at a Christian camp in the summer that many of our students go to, and they know I have a sign in my yard and a bumper sticker on my vehicle, you know, So the idea that I can prevent them from figuring out who I support. I don't think I give up the right to participate in politics because I become a government employee and as a

social studies teacher. If I did keep it from them, I would model exactly the opposite of what I hope to achieve with them, which is a model participation, because I want them to participate. And um, I don't know how to get around that. The kids come into my room knowing that I have a Biden sticker on my vehicle, and they look at me and they say, do you really support Vice President Biden? And uh, I say, well, you know, the question is who do you support and

why do you feel that way? Let's talk about it. And I try and turn the tables on them and make them develop the skills to articulate why they like somebody. And if their answer is I like President Trump because mom and did like President Trump, that's good enough, you know. And I try my best to affirm that in them. I don't I don't detigrate that at all. I try my best never to be disrespectful of the president, because I don't think that gets me anywhere, and I don't

think it's professional. I'm not trying to shake personal political opinions at the moment so much as I'm working on a set of skills, and these kids are going to be in school for another five or six years and that chance to shake those skills. I'm laying a foundation that I hope somebody in high school will pick up and you know, build on. I have to keep that perspective of do these kids know what they need to know or have the skills that they need to have

to participate. The kids whose situation in life is the worst, the disenfranchised, the people who the economic development policy and decisions by local government are going to help or hurt them the most, and yet they don't know how to take part to participate. Those are the people that hurt the most if we if we don't have adequate social

studies instruction. But Mr Cruey says, as a middle school teacher in one of the poorest regions of the country, civics vocabulary and lessons on the importance of voting often take a back seat to more immediate concerns. I'm a first responder to poverty, so I go to school and I deal with students because they need care. If on top of that they understand academics, that's an added bonus.

But without the foundation of them knowing that they're cared for and that the somebody is concerned about their welfare, you don't get any of the other stuff. And you know, we're looking for a way to shape strong adults. If they don't feel loved, if they don't have a good self image, if they don't make it to adulthood, it doesn't matter. You know that that's the goal. The goal

is to produce strong, healthy adults. That was Greg Cruey, middle school social studies teacher from war West Virginia, coming up the biggest takeaways from the election and their impact on the future of voting rights. After thirty years, it's time to return to the halls of West Beverly High and hang out at the peach pit. On the podcast nine O two one OMG joined Jenny Garth and Tory Spelling for a rewatch of the hit series Beverly Hills

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over at Grimm and Mild dot com. Slash Presents. I'm Ev Rodsky, author of the New York Times bestseller fair Play and Find your Unicorn Space, activists on the gender division of labor, attorney and family mediator. And I'm Dr adding A Rucar, a Harvard physician and medical correspondent with an expertise and the science of stress, resilience, mental health and burnout. We're so excited to share our podcast Time Out,

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or wherever you get your podcasts. Now that the presidential race is behind us well almost, And with that modicum of hindsight, I wanted to get a sense of this election, of its place in our voting history, its potential impact on democracy, and what lessons we might glean from it. So we decided to check in with some of our previous guests. My name is Wendy Wiser. I am Vice President for a Democracy at the Brendan Center for Justice at n y U Law School. This election was a

really unprecedented election in multivle dimensions. First, and happily, we have an unprecedented level of voter turnout. More Americans voted in this election than in any other election in American history um in the highest percentage and over a century UM. And that is great news for democracy. The more people participate, the stronger our democracy. We conducted an election during a once in a century pandemic that obviously created serious and

unprecedented challenges. UM. It changed the way many Americans voted across the entire country in a really short time frame, and we successfully accomplished that election under such challenging circumstances. If we look at how we voted, we we voted in new ways and in that way, our election was unprecedented. We had a huge surge in absentee and mail voting, and a huge surge in early voting, Americans voting before

election day, so we spread out the election process. Americans took advantage of all the different options available to them, and so that was really new and we were able to accomplish that and that massive change again in a short period of time. It was unprecedented in some negative ways as well. We did see a huge surge in efforts at voter suppression, targeting voters, trying to make it harder for specific groups, particularly black and brown voters, to

participate in the election. We saw a surge, not as much as was feared, of people actually trying to interfere with the voting process and disenfranchise voters at the polls

on election day and during the early voting period. The other thing that was really unprecedented was the push by the campaign of the President of the United States and those working with him both to undermine the integrity of the election and to try to make it harder for eligible Americans to vote, or even too after the fact,

disenfranchised eligible Americans who did participate in the election. And that is not only unprecedented, but shocking and ongoing and something we've not seen anything remotely like it before in American history. I am Guilded Daniels. I'm an associate professor at the University of Baltimore School of Law. I'm also litigation director at Advancement Project National Office, and the author

of Uncounted, The Crisis of Voter Suppression in America. The fact that we had more than a hundred and fifty million vote in almost eighty million people voted for one candidate, UH is a founding because we thought that the system would break under the weight of people actually doing what the what we're supposed to do, which is actually vote.

We don't anticipate that people will participate at the levels that they should, right, and so that's why you have long lines, because you don't have enough machines, you don't have enough workers, you don't have enough balance, those kinds of things. So if we could, if we could raise our expectations. One of things I've learned my children is that they rise to the level of my expectations. So I think if we raise our expectations, I think we

will have a we would have a better system. I'm Tyler Okaykave goot At sixteen, you the organizer with Power California, and a second year student at the University of Chicago studying public policy. In this election, we saw that it seemed like across the board there was this pushing enthusiasm behind getting more people to vote. We saw it from corporations, we saw it from non governmental agencies, grass freet organizations

like ours. But my fear moving forward is that will we continue to keep this emphasis and access to the ballot and um the provision of the right to vote to everyone. Will we keep this energy up when maybe the states aren't in the favor of the corporations that are invested or the organizations that are invested in the

elections somewhere another. However, when it comes to the policies that states like California and other progressive states adopted on voting, I think they will continue to be major pushes around how we make the ballot more accessible. I think that mail in ballot will continue to be a constant. I think that ballot drop off boxes will continue to be

a constant. I think even we'll be having more conversations about how we digitize and make more of these themes accessible, and I think the coronavirus pandemic has allowed us a testing ground for many of these avenues to the ballot that weren't explored before. And I'm hopeful to see how how well we can expand how we allow people access to the ballot box, but also how we have conversations

about how to vote in the procedure around voting. I think this election has really created a culture around voting and civic particip patient that I that I know will continue. But like I said, my anxieties are around um the buying that corporations have, which we've seen is usually in alignment with their economic interests at all times. One of the takeaways from this election is that it took way too much mobilization outside of government just to shore up

the basic right to vote. We did not invest sufficiently in our election, and we came very perilously close to not being able to provide an opportunity for everybody to vote safely, and to a situation where there could have been widespread election meltdowns. If we didn't have that mobilization of resources and support from outside of government, we could

have had a real disaster on our hands. And it also took way too much just to ensure that america kins knew their voting rights and had those voting rights protected. And we're not thwarted by unfair obstacles that are still there in our election laws, um and that can still be taken advantage of by those who want to thwart

voter participation. Coming out of this election, we need to invest more in our elections because we cannot count on this level of mobilization and public propping up of the election system that we saw this year in our future elections. I mean, that is unusual. That was it was a great show of patriotism and support for our democracy. But we cannot demand that from Americans every election just to be able to have free and fair elections and to

continue as a functioning democracy. And we need to shore up our voting rights laws and our voting rights protections because if we don't restore the critical protections of the Voting Rights Act, which are there to prevent discrimination in the voting system, if we don't actually create a baseline set of voting rules and voting protections for every American so that people can conveniently access the voting system, there will be continued manipulation of the system to target voters

for disenfranchisement unless we clear these are not targeted at every voter. In this election, we saw extreme and blatant targeting of African American and other voters of color for disenfranchisement, both before the election and in the post election disputes. This cannot be acceptable in our voting system going forward. The biggest takeaway that I think we can take from

this election is that it's more than one day. That it's the work that has to be done months before, even years before, that enabled us to have this large voter turnout, and that the fight continues. It's about giving people the ability to vote early, to vote by mail, to vote curbside too, you know, for persons who are returning citizens, are formally incarcerated persons um to to vote. It's it's it was about laying that groundwork months before, years before, to try to make sure that access was

a possibility and that people could utilize the right. And it's the work that happens after election day, work that we have to do as citizens and ensuring that the folks are representing us right. And it's like we still need to be contacting congress persons even though this is

a lame duck session. So what I'm hopeful that we've got out of this election season that that is indeed a season and not just an election day, that the work goes on, you know, before, during, and afterwards to make sure that this democracy works to its fullest potential. We should be under no illusions that all as well in the country right now, and there's so much work

to be done. So as long as we continue to say that we care for our communities and that we're invested in political change, it means that we're involved in this work all the time, and even beyond voting. Right So if you can't vote, if the next opportunity to vote will be in two years, there are things that you can do to build power and to continue to educate people around you so that they're prepared to make critical decisions when it comes to voting or when it

comes to running for office one day. Maybe, but I think, um, we should always stay focused on the material conditions in our communities, and I would say, as of right now, they have yet to change or get better, and that's something that we need to focus on. We're going to take a short break, but when we come back, Hope. Yep, you heard it, Hope. Are you an architect, contractor, or engineer looking for more knowledge about energy efficiency. Here's your

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com slash training. Hello, I'm Mini Driver, And on my podcast Mini Questions, I asked trailblazes across different disciplines the same seven questions, questions about the inflection points in their life, what they like least about themselves, and what relationship has defined love for them. This season, I'm coming back with new trailblazes like Blondie vocalist Debbie Harry, journalist and television host Jeremy Clarkson, editor in chief of Install Magazine Laura Brown,

and creative Juggernaut Goldie. Join me as we continue this exploration on season two of Many Questions on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Look for your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasuring pebbles. They see a windy path that

could lead to adventure, and they see you. They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and start exploring a Discover the Forest dot org brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad Council. Let's be honest here, we deserve some good news, right. Luckily there were some positive lessons from our election experience. Our guests Tyler okay Ka, Gilda Daniels, and Wendy wise Or share what gives them hope for the future of

our democracy. First, here's Wendy. The sheer number of people not only that showed their belief in that vision and in that system, but that we're willing to sort of mobilize and dedicate resources and time to realize that and to make sure it happens in the face of so many threats this year. Is a strength that gives me a lot of hope for our ability to fix it going forward, and I think that we can't let up.

This was not just one election. Those threats are still present, those ideals and it and strategies are now going to be deployed by others in the future, and we can't let up until we put in place much more solid guard rails in the system to prevent its undermining and to ensure that every eligible American has a fair opportunity

to participate conveniently and without discrimination. What makes me hopeful is my children, because I think they were engaged at a level that I certainly was not engaged at that age,

So they certainly make me hopeful. And young people in general, right, and that I called it moving from protest to power, that they moved from the protests of the spring in the summer over the murders of Brianna Taylor Man are very and Um and George Floyd to going to the voting booth because they actually young people actually turned out in high levels as well. So it wasn't just about Democrats and Republicans. It was about groups of people who

generally don't participate who turned out to vote. And I think that that is certainly what makes me hopeful, and I'm hopeful that it that it continues beyond certainly November three. Where I pulled from is how people have really sat down and reconsidered how they think about race relations in

this country. I think with the contradictions that we've seen with the coronavirus pandemic, um seeing that people are not able to have a stable access to food, stable access to housing, stable access to their jobs, this moment where every two years were in a moment of depression and chaos, I think that's something that people are really sitting down and interrogating, and I'm hoping that that analysis that people are making privately leads to a shift in political convictions

when it comes to also how we vote, but more importantly, how we advocate and what our expectations are of our political leaders. You know, the racial reckoning that we've had with the response to police brutality, as well as the contradictions that the coronavirus pandemic has shown to both our systems and economy is what's going to keep people critical and also keep people focused on building a stronger, more resilient future. Although we had to have more than a

hundred and fifty million people cast, but allots. We certainly had a higher person image of turnout at six but that's sixty that's better than we've done in the past. But why don't we have turnout or nine percent turnout? My ultimate goal is universal suffrage. I'm not happy with six turned out and right now in this country, we do not have a system where people can register on the same day, same day. Voter registration should be universal

in this country. Right this idea that if you don't register thirty days before the election, then you can't participate. That's a long awaiting period. Then we have for someone to get a gun. So we still have these rules that just don't make sense. If we're going to have a democracy, then the vote has to be central and the ability for people to access the vote has to be made easier. And I think, you know, I'll continue to work until that until that happens. That was professor

and author Gilda Daniels. You also heard Tyler Okk of Howard, California, and Wendy Wiser of the Brennan Center for Justice. And thank you one more time to Greg Cruey, who, by the way, we found through a fantastic article in the Washington Post, written by education reporter Hannah Natanson. Listeners, turn Out maybe ended, but the fight for voting rights goes on.

To find out how you can help, check out the description of the episode you're listening to right now, where you'll find links to all of our guests their organizations, as well as related and helpful books and articles. And you can keep up with me and what I'm up to and what I'm covering on your favorite social media channels, and by signing up for our morning newsletter is called Wake Up Call. Just go to Katie currect dot com

to subscribe. What can I say? People love and for more of me in your ears, keep an eye out for a brand new season of my podcast coming out in February. Until then, I'm Katie Curic. Thank you so much for listening, and stay engaged. Democracy Fighters. Turnout is a production of I Heart Media and Katie Curic Media. The executive producers are Katie Curic and Courtney Littz, Supervising producers Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements, Eliza Costas, and

Emily Pento. Editing by Derreck Clements and Lauren Hansen. Mixing by Derrick Clements. Our researcher is Gabriel Loser and special thanks to my right hand woman, Adriana Fasio. Meanwhile, yes, I'm Katie Couric. Thanks so much for listening. Everyone. We'll see you next time. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about, and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinuity, host of the

new podcast Navigating Adoption, presented by adopt Us Kids. Each episode brings you compelling, real life adoption stories told by the families that lived them, with commentary from experts. Visit adopt us Kids dot org, slash podcast or subscribe to Navigating Adoption presented by adopt Us Kids, brought to you by the U. S Department of Health, that Human Services

Administration for Children and Families, and the ACT Council. When P. T. Barnum's Great American Museum burned to the grounds in eighteen sixty five, what rose from its ashes would change the world? Welcome to Grim and Mild presents an ongoing journey into the strange, the unusual, and the fascinating. In our inaugural season, will give you a backstage tour of the complex and unusual artifact that is the American side show. Listen to Grim and Mile Presents now on the I Heart Radio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. The art world it is essentially a money laundering business. The best fakes are still hanging on people's walls. You know they don't even know or suspect that their fakes. I'm Alec Baldwin and this is a podcast about deception, greed and forgery in the art world. I just walked in and saw this bright red painting presuming to be a Rothko. Of course, art forgeries only happen because there's money to be made, a lot of money. I'm listening to how

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