‘The second Stonewall’: Matthew Shepard’s lasting legacy

this is Today. I'm Frank Mee d And here are the headlines. Good morning, Here's what's happening. Here begins something New. I'm Charles Calf and this is Wilt is here with Maria Schreiber visiting is Today. It's going to have you, Maria. Good evening, the CDs Evening News with Walter Tronka. This is NBC Likely News with John Chance of All in New York, Harry Reisner and Barbara Walters, Peter Jennings, Dan Rather, Sam Donaldson. I'm Frank Reynolds and I'm Howard K. Smith

in Washington. Good morning everyone, I'm Tom Brokaw on Today with the newest member of the Today Family, Jane Pauli, who comes to us from Indiana and Chicago. And as I said earlier, any family would be happy to welcome someone so bright and energetic and enterprising and just incidentally pretty as well. Charlotte, do you agree with that? Yes, I wish you were younger. You know, I ask you not to do that. Yikes, Gene. Fortunately, some things have

changed since then, and not just for women. The activism we've seen against racism in the wake of police brutality, the push for pay equity across industries, the continued pressure from the Me Too movement, the wave of lgbt Q representation in so many arenas are all getting us to a more inclusive, enlightened place. I reflected on these changes in my memoir, and when I look back, there's one interview for me that stands out up as a prime

example of how far we've come. Coming up in this half hour, it was a crime that shocked the entire nation. It was February. Matthew Shepard, a gay student at the University of Wyoming, was found beaten and tied to a fence last fall. A cyclist passing by said he resembled a scarecrow. Shortly afterwards, Matthew Shephard died and now his parents are talking for the first time. I interviewed Matthew's parents,

Judy and Dennis, on The Today Show. This was just four months after their son was brutally beaten and left for dead, four months after his death became a national story and a clarion call for gay rights. What do you think matt would have thought of all this because to some he's he's become almost a martyr. Well, it's a very frightening concept as a parent that your son now becomes a martyr and a figure of public figure

for the world. He's just our son. We talked about what matt was like, always a loving and kind, gentle spirit who had respect for everyone's views, and how they reacted when he told them he was gay. He was our son. We would have accepted and loved him and support him no matter what decisions he made. And then having said that, was it a bit hard to accept at all? You want to see your son or your daughter uh have grandchildren so that the family tree continues.

It was hard to accept the fact that it stops here. Listening to it now, I'm struck by how differently the subject of having a gay child was treated back then. I brought this up recently when I interviewed the Scottish actor and queer icon Alan Cumming, pointing out how dated this line of questioning feels now. I think it so much actually has changed. And since you know and and and then you cous Matthew Shepard was a huge turning point, I think. And that was actually right when I first

came to New York. That's when I was doing cabaret, remember it. But I think those things, those it's like, it's like, you know, stuff pre me too. Stuff sounds now so like how insane could we have put up with all that? But actually what you're talking about when you said that to him, that is very much how people thought in those days. It's it does it is dated, but it's it's not it's not offensive. It wasn't offensive.

I meant from any pace of offense. It's just really interesting how things in certain areas sometimes changed so fast. And thank God that we have got a generation of young people who are coming up who don't I think in the same way that we we weren't brought up in the same way that we are who have grown up with the possibility of otherness all around them. I am so kind of heartened by the young when it

comes to lgbt Q acceptance. Matthew Shepard, as Alan Cumming just said, was in many ways the turning point in this country. He is gruesome. Death sounded the alarm and inspired a whole new generation of activists to fight for the equality and protections the LGBT community deserved. I've been lucky enough to interview the Shepherds in the years since. In fact, Judy came on my talk show. In day to day it changes. Sometimes it seems like it was just yesterday, as you said, or a hundred years ago.

It's every day is a brand new day. Still, after fifteen years, it never gets easier for those who loved matt His life and death impacted so many, and on today's episode this Thanksgiving week, just a few days shy of what would have been his forty five birthday, we explore Matthew Shepherd's legacy through one of those people who knew, loved,

and was inspired by him. I will apologize if there's times that I get terry and I cry, because it just means so much to me to be doing what I'm doing, and um, sometimes I get a little bit of overwhelmed because life has come full circle for me. Jeff Matt was a friend of Matt's at the University of Wyoming. They met through the LGBT There wasn't a queue yet group on campus. The LGBT group was just our great way of all getting together and knowing each other.

And Matt was such a nice, sensitive person, super smart, would give you the shirt off his back, was just always just so so kind um, and someone you always wanted to go have a beer with, or you know, hang out with, or talk politics with, and you know, wanting both wanting to be in politics. It was It was fun to be able to talk about that today. Jeff is the newly appointed executive vice president of the Matthew Shepard Foundation, an lgbt Q education, outreach and advocacy

organization started by Judy and Dennis. I cried in every interview for this job, and I said, I said to everybody's like, I don't cry during job interviews, but this just means so much to me, and carrying on his legacy just means so much. I grew up in Wyoming. I grew up in a town of a eighty people called Chugwater, Wyoming, and I grew up ten miles outside of that on a farm, and gay wasn't something that people really knew, and if it was, it was something

that was was very, very bad. And uh. I went off to school at the University of Laramie, very University of Wyoming, Laramie, and was not out. I was a fraternity member, and I left to go work for my fraternity on the East Coast and came back and was admissions council. So I was about three three and a half years older than Matt, and you know, I was young, and I joined the LGBT R. I was a part of the LGBT group because I couldn't join it because

I was not a student. But I was a young professional and that was my That was my outlet to to be gay. And getting to know Matt through the LGBT group and having that safe space was my only outlet while I was in in Laramie. Wasn't out to my family, wasn't out to anybody. And when um, when Matt died, I was actually on a work trip and one of my colleagues got sick and couldn't go on the recruiting trip, and so we drove up to Jackson that week to do a recruiting trip for the university.

And uh, our boss Kathy called one morning and was the morning that Matt was found. Sorry, it just I mean, twenty plus years later, it just still gets me. And um, Kathy goes with you, please sit down, And so I sat down and Cathy told me that Matt had been found tied to a fence post and was in critical condition in Fort Collins and she said come home now. And it was a couple of days later that he then died. Uh. So then through that entire next year, it was all of us trying to just figure out

what was going on with our lives. We really bonded together. The group really tried to start doing some activism and so that really at that moment, gave me the introspect to go is admissions where they need to be. And you look at so many of Matt's friends and we've all kind of gone in our own paths. I took the path of I was just like, I have to save the world. I have to do something. Jeff left the small town of Laramie, Wyoming and his admissions job

at the university. He moved to big cities Denver first, then l a and Washington, d C. Weaving his passion for lgbt Q activism with the nonprofit World. He worked for the Human Rights Campaign, the Outfest film Fest, Stable, the American Red Cross, and the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. The thing that has happened through all of this,

Judy kind of became my adopted virtual mom. Judy has seen me grow as you know, this kid who's too scared to be in the Larmie Project because he didn't want people to think he was gay, to see me grow as a professional. I wasn't too much older than Matt Um. It always breaks my heart thinking that if I had been there that week, would I have got out for a drink with him? You know, would we've would would would something else have been different? You know?

I used to go karaoke at the fireside and you know it was it was one of those places that we would go to and we never felt in danger until that happened. I was I had never been called faggott or anything like that. Um, And so Larmie changed in a way and that's one of the reasons why I decided to leave, because I needed to see the big city, and I wanted to go out and change

the world. And coming back here and seeing what the foundation has done, and Judy and Dennis just going and talking to people has really put a face to it and has helped people understand that being an ally is very,

very important. Still to this day. Judy and Dennis launched the Matthew Shepherd Foundation on their son's birthday December one, and in the twenty three years since, the organization and Judy and Dennis have had a huge impact on legislation, lobbying for marriage equality, over turney, don't Ask, Don't tell, fighting job discrimination policies, and most profoundly, this afternoon, I signed in the law but Matthew Shepard and James Burd Jr.

Hate Crimes Conventional, a bill that was also named for James Bird Jr. A Texas man who was brutally killed by three white supremacists just a few months before Matthew's murder. Judy and Dennis work so hard to get the Hate Crimes Prevention Act, and that was two thousand and nine, and so that took ten years ten to get This is the culmination of a struggle that has lasted more than a decade. Time and again, we faced opposition, time

and again the measure was defeated or delayed. Time and again, we've been reminded of the difficulty of building a nation in which we're all free to live and love as we see fit. What the Act did was greatly expand the government's ability to prosecute federal hate crimes, including now for the first time, those crimes motivated by a victims sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability. It's passage twelve years ago was historic, and it still stands as a land

mark piece of legislation when we come back. How Matthew Shepard inspired a new generation of activists. By the nineteen nineties, the culture Wars were raging. Everything from abortion to religion to women in the military sparked vicious debate, but none more so than gay rights. The agenda that Clinton and Clinton would impose on America, abortion on demand, a litmus test for the Supreme Court, homosexual rights, discrimination against religious schools,

women in combat units. The tension at the time is pretty well represented and pap you can inspire e speech at the Republican National Convention. There is a religious war going on in this country. It is a cultural war as critical to the kind of nation we shall be as the Cold War itself. For this war is for the soul of America. We had in that struggle for the soul of America. Clinton and Clinton are on the other side, and George Bush is on our side. Meanwhile,

I can't even say the word. Why can't I say the word? I mean, why can't I just say? Gay life was making its way into the nation's living rooms like never before. I'm gay. You know, Ellen came out and had repercussions and lost her show when matt was killed. I think Will and Grace came out just a couple of months before that. It's not that not that big a deal. You just jumped into Jack's arms. Last time a woman did that. A woman has never done that.

We we weren't seeing our images on mainstream TV. We were either a stereotype or an add on character. So what smooth Still, But Matthew's death in many ways turned the tide culturally and politically. You know, I hate to always say it, and I think people have said it, but Matt's death was the second Stone Wall, and it really invigorated everyone to really stand up for themselves. You saw something that was so tragic and so hate filled, and it just rallied the community in a way that

hadn't been seen in a long long time. And you know, you often see such a huge tragedy will will rally communities, and I think it's those kind of things that awaken people and shock people and then they get shocked into action. And I think everyone got shocked into action by that good evening. Matthew Shepherd was not a cause, He was not an issue. Matthew Shepherd was a young man who had a future and was denied that future. All the candlelight vigels, the best tribute we can get to Matthew

is to cherish life every day. It really brought a lot of allies out. I am a wife, heterosexual, raised as a Catholic Republican, and I am so ashamed of my people right now. It brought a lot of people who you wouldn't necessarily anticipate would be an activist or would go out and you know, March, I am so piste off. I can't stop crying. And it just hit me why I am so devastated by it. It's because this is what I was trying to stop. This is exactly why I did what I did. It happened all

over the country, it happened all over the world. It really brought attention to you know, this is this is a problem, and the you know, everyone's like they're asking for special rights, and you know, we were like, no, we're asking for for equal rights. And that helped the allies get behind saying you know, yeah, they need these protections and they need this. And it really just created an army of young activists that spread out and and

shows the nonprofit world to to go. And I have so many friends that decided to do it right at the same time as me, and and matt was one of the underlying issues, or one of the motivations for for everybody to do that, to get out there and make an impact, because it could have in any one of us. We'll be right back. Thanks to the work of organizations like the Matthew Shepherd Foundation and dedicated activists inspired by his life and death, the last twenty years

have seen tremendous strides for the LGBTQ community. April of two thousand Vermont made same sex marriage legal. One of the big stories this week is Vermont. Vermont, of all places, has pretty much okayed gay marriage. In two thousand nine, the Matthew Shepherd and James Bird Hate Crimes Prevention Act becomes law two thousand eleven. Don't Ask, Don't Tell was over in two historic breaking news coming out of Washington today, the Supreme Court strikes down the defensive Mary Jacked DOMA,

which became law nineteen nineties six. This is a major, broadly written opinion which strikes down the law on the ground that it discriminates against gay people. In President Obama acknowledge the LGBT hugh community in his State of the Union address. That's why we defend free speech and advocate for political prisoners, and condemn the persecution of women or religious minorities, or people who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender. We do these things not only because they are likely.

In June of and I remember exactly where I was. I was in a conference room in Boston when the Supreme Court declare the same sex was a constitutional right. All of us cried. It's profound. The five to four vote, in many ways reflecting the huge societal shift of the last twenty years. And then in the military will allow transgender Americans to serve. Opening in the military may have

seen stonewall and became a national monument. In more than a LGBD candidates were elected into office in the term elections. Once Tuesday Night's victors are sworn in, for the first time in history, the United States will have more than a thousand LGBTQ officials serving at once. And then you know, we started seeing more gay, lesbian, bisexual people on on TV. The original show was fighting the tolerance, our fight dis acceptance. Hey, world, there's a new power couple on the horizon cam and

Mitch kitch. No, that sounds weird, ma'am. We'll find it. I wish I knew how to quit you. I'm not. Don't get pregnant because I don't like having sex with men. So anyway, I'm by. You're wearing a wedding dress to my wedding. This is not a wedding dress. It's a white floor link gown. It's very difference. Did it come with a vell, No, it came in a head dress. What I've been doing the show for ten years. I still have the same haircut. I wear the same ten

dollar blazers Donald's. If you didn't like me, then you're really probably not gonna like me now because I'm hosting S and O and I'm like, so gay, dude, this is Moonlight, the best picture, and I am here today because I am gay. And now you know, later on we're seeing more transgender people on on TV. Listen, doc, I need my dosage. I've given five years, eighty thou dollars and my freedom for this. I'm finally who I'm supposed to be. Do you understand I can't go back.

I look at it this way. Brush always telling a lie slive eyes whole life about who he is, and uh, I can't do that any longer. Are you? Are you saying that you're gonna start dress sing up like a lady? All of my whole life, I've been dressing off like a man. This is me. It's the little it's you know, getting out of the shower and the towels around your waist and you're looking at yourself in the mirror and

you're just like there I am today. It may be a different world, but unfortunately the work to protect the lgbt Q community must continue. In legislative session, over two hundred and fifty potentially harmful lgbtach related bills were introduced throughout the country, over half of which were anti trans That is more than has ever been introduced in the history of America. And so and I don't I don't think people know that. And I think if people knew that,

they want to pay a little bit more attention. So, you know, we we have to stay virgins. I'm hopeful, I'm optimistic, but have to be vigilant. What would life look like for the LGBT community if we didn't have that second wave and that second stone wall. You know, I would prefer to have Matt here, But thank God something good came out of it. Being here is humbling and it is inspiring, and I just want to do right for the organization and really carry on the legacy

for for Matt. Thank you to my guest Jeff Mac and to everyone at the Matthew Shepard Foundation. Next week, on next Question, we're cooking up something special. I'm not a podcast host. This is I'm moonlighting. This is not my full time gig. Alison Roman is here and she's playing me. I'm going to take a quick breather from my whirlwind tour, But don't worry. I'll be back before you know it, sharing my favorite moments from my cross

country trip. But until then, you're in good hands with our guest host, the chef and cookbook author Alison Roman, so stay tuned. Next Question with Katie Kurik is a production of I Heart Media and Katie Kurk Media. The executive producers Army, Katie Curic, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clemens, Adriana Fasio, and Emily Pinto. The show is edited and mixed by

Derrek Clemens. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go to Katie Currek dot com. You can also find me at Katie Curic on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.