The parenting deep dive, Part 2: ‘Millennial parenting whisperer’ Dr. Becky to the rescue!

entire sweeping conversation. I was really into Dr Becky. You guys. We talked about how she became the millennial parenting whisper, what's behind her parenting philosophy, how to navigate social media and screen time, and so much more so, settle in, friends and enjoy Dr Becky with rate advice for parents and really anyone out there. Dr Becky Kennedy, Okay, you've become sort of this parenting phenom. And before we talk about your advice and your approach toward parenting, I want

to talk to you about you. How did you what's a nice girl like you doing in a place like this? As my mom used to say, how did you get into this? Whole line of work. Um, that's a great question. I've always just found people to be so fascinating and

and honestly, probably like you, have been interested in people's stories. Um, And I've always just kind of loved living in this space between what I know is people like doing their best, and I really have always believed people are kind of inherently good, and then there's this whole range of behavior as we all engage in that are like really not so good. And so I've always like imagined this space

between people's identity and their behavior. And then I learned as I get older, oh, kind of the space in between a lot of it can be understood by psychology and sociology and actually people a living of getting to know people and understanding that space and helping people kind of close that space and acting more in line with their values. And so then I you know, studied psychology at Duke and started a private practice after getting my PhD,

and clinical and adult psychology. And then as I became a parent myself, I realized, in addition to kind of the deep psychotherapy I like doing, I really liked working with parents who weren't necessarily seeking therapy. They were actually seeking kind of guidance for how to help the struggles they saw with their kids. So a lot of these parents would come to me and say, Yeah, I'm not

even looking for therapy for my kid. I just know that I need to kind of brush up on some skills because I don't like the way I'm interacting with my kid. But I don't I don't know what to do differently, or I know my kid is kind of in the range of normal. Therefore they're having tantrums, their tend they're lying to me. I don't know if what they need is therapy, but I need help, just like helping this whole system. And then that led me to, you know, want to do a lot more you know,

kind of direct parenting work. And I feel like everything really came together because parenting is not just this kind of set of strategies or skills we can memorize, because our own past and the way we were parented and kind of our stuff just all comes alive. And so that combination of thinking deeply about people, understanding why we are the way we are, and then giving people very practical, action oriented kind of help. Um, I was able to do all of that with parents and then just wanted

to do more and more of it. Well, clearly you're feeling a huge void I think in the marketplace. Although if you go to the parenting section at any Barnes and Noble, it is replete with, you know, all kinds of parenting books. So what do you think it it is about your approach? Becky? Should I call you Dr? Becky? Becky? Okay? Um? That that really differentiates you from so many other people in the in this arena. So I've reflected on this question for a little bit because I've wondered it myself.

I've been to the parenting section too, Like there's like a lot of action here, you know. Um. So I think there's a couple of things from a parenting specific standpoint, I feel like we've been fed these two models, neither of which actually feel right to people. Where there's this model of okay, change behavior, and kids do this bad behavior and we need less of the bad and more of the good, and so we have time outs and we have punishments, and we have sticker charts and praise

and ignoring. And while that all makes sense logically, I feel like all of us deepen our souls or like this just this can't be it like, this doesn't feel good, this doesn't feel right. I don't know about you, but if my husband responded to my not so great behavior by like giving me a time out or a sticker or something, I would not feel great. And so nobody likes doing those strategies. In fact, you talk about how

it's shaping behavior, not human beings. Yeah, I feel like there's this like very very narrow way of looking at kids, as if we can help young, impressionable children become fully functioning, sturdy adults by just looking at what's happening on the surface. It's almost like a Pavlovian attitude about parenting, isn't it is.

It's like, right, well, my kid keeps hitting their younger sibling, and if I just scare them enough by threatening abandonment to their room, or by having a scary voice or kind of bribe them enough with stickers, then I will fix my child. But we all know, well, what happened to the jealousy that was driving that, or what happened to the anger. Well, guess what, your kid's gonna feel jealous and angry for the rest of their lives, probably

towards their siblings, but also just in general. So if we're not building skills for those feelings, well, what's gonna happen when your kids twenty and feels jealous of their you know friend, or what's going to happen when they're forty and are angry at their boss? Like, nothing good

because they've never developed skills. So that approach is like purely logical behavior shaping, and to me, beyond it not feeling good to me, there's also just an inefficiency like, wait, you're missing out in all the years you could be developing skills that kids actually need for the rest of their lives. So I think there's a lot of books and a lot of parenting approaches that fall into that category.

And then there's a lot of books and kind of approaches that fall into the category of weight like feelings matter, and like we need to see feelings and allow for feelings. But I think sometimes on that side of things, people feel limited because parents are thinking, okay, okay, but what do I do in the moment? Like, but what do

I actually say? And okay, so you allow the feelings, but what about when yeah, it results in lying or hitting, Like I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to sit back and be like, my kid is feeling angry, how amazing, Like that's definitely not right either. And so I think our approach equally prioritizes yes, seeing feelings as real and strong and important, but also something I call bodying authority and really sturdy leadership and firm boundaries. And so it's

kind of a hybrid of these two approaches exactly. So I think that feels good and then and then maybe even more than that, I really think it's like the first approach that is as much about self development as it's about child development. And that's not a way of saying it's parents fault at all. I don't think any

of the stuff is parents fault. I actually think it's a way of saying, we have a huge opportunity here, Like this is a parenting approach where you can grow even outside your role as a parent, and you can feel more healed and you can feel more centered and more sturdy across the board, while at the same time you're building resilience and your kids. And I think there's just a feel good nature. I think there's an efficiency parents like, oh, I can knock that both out at once,

like that that sounds good. Well that's interesting too, because who's to say that first time parent or even a second third time parent has all the answers. It is really a kind of learn as you process. There isn't really a handbook for handling this. No. I mean, this is the thing that gets me super fired up. Um, And I think it is such a larger sociological problem that I feel like most raw to almost more than

any you know one parenting problem. This bigger problem, which is parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world. And it's a job we have for a lot of years. Like your kids are older, you're still a parent, Like you still parent. And most jobs in this country that we value that we think are important, we really prioritize the people in those jobs getting training

and resources. And not only that, Like if I think about a surgeon, i'd ever go to because I would think surgery is like another really important, you know, really hard job. I would never see a surgeon who like got their tips on Instagram, Like I'd be like, oh, okay, like did you get training? And the surgeon who got the most training, the surgeon who had ongoing support. I think all of us would look at that surgeon positively, not like what's wrong with you? We'd be like, that's amazing,

you know, when can I get an appointment? And with parenting at the opposite, where we just take this baby home from the hospital, we're given nothing. There's this bullshit about maternal instinct. Right, So it's kind of saying, if you are struggling, it's your fault, you know, as opposed to if I am struggling, maybe I wasn't set up to thrive, and maybe there are resources and support I can then go invest in, not just for my kids,

but again just so I can feel more confident. So I think you're right, and I think that's a huge shift we need. We were talking earlier when we were walking into the studio about generational trauma, and I'm so fascinated by this, and it's something that I've thought a lot about in the last year or so, and it's surprising to me that this is now just getting so much attention. And it's not it's it's trauma broadly defined.

In other words, how you were parented and what you experienced as a child comes out when you're a parent. And yet people don't understand that people don't look at that and either correct it or reinforce the things that were positive in their own childhood's. Talk to me about how parenting styles reflect your own childhood experience and why this is just now coming to light. I'm sure as the psychologist it's something that you have been steeped in,

but the general public I don't think has. Yeah, and I think it is still under talked about. Maybe right, it's starting to definitely be talked about more. But absolutely something I say often is without intervention and guidance, we parent the way we were parented, and very few people I know are like great, like I want to do things exactly the same way, right, and so why is

this right? Well, we learn about what close relationships are through our earliest attachments, right, We learn what's allowed, what feelings are allowed, what feelings are safe, what brings me closeness with others, literally, what brings my parents close, what gets me loving looks and kind of validation Even when you're an infant, that modeling is so critically important. Just looking at a child, smiling at that child, reinforcing that

that child is loved unconditionally. So many kids don't have that they don't, And there's this other narrative, right, like, oh, they won't remember that anyway, Right, that's like something people say, And yeah, I hope more more people understand a much broader definition of memory, which is, you know, the most important memories in my mind aren't the ones ever that we recall with our words. They're the ones that were just stored in our body and live out in our

behavioral patterns. Right. That's another form of memory. Right, So I remember always that there was a dad I used to see in private practice. He said, I don't remember how my parents responded to my tantrums and hard moments. How would I remember that? But this is a dad who came to me because he's like, whenever my kids are having a hard time and are upset, which I now know is actually totally developmental normal. I know what I want to say and do, but I gets scary,

like I yell and I send them away. And he'd say, I don't remember how my parents responded. And I used to almost like hold this in lightness, like what do you mean you don't remember? Your memory just played out like right there? You know, like I can tell you what happened, right, not because I can see into the past, you know that far, but because our tolerance for tough moments with our kids comes from our parents tolerance for

those tough moments with us. So parents who say, yeah, like it's really hard for me to stay calm during my kid's tantrum or and my kid asked for something over and over, it's really really hard for me to stay sturdy. I get really triggered or reactive on some level. We're reliving this bodily memory. We're probably in our childhoods, you know, when we wanted something that was inconvenient for our parents, which is most of the time with children, right,

because you want things and you can't have them. And so when you want something and you can't have it and you haven't yet developed regulation skills, you have a tantrum. It's not a sign of being a bad spoiled kid. It's a sign of how hard it is to want

and be denied, which is hard for us too. And if that was responded to over and over, it would have been responded to with some version of you know, oh, you're crying, I'll give you something to cry about, or go to your room, or you're spoiled or no TV for a week, or you know, physical punishment of some type. Then our bodies learned back to that word trauma. Wow, I'm not allowed to want things for myself. It doesn't learn I'm not supposed to ask for this game at

the toy store. Just learn something bigger, like when I want something and other people say no, that is really dangerous. So I should just put that away. I should stop wanting things. I should suppress my desires exactly. But it can also be I imagine the the inability to really even deal with these things on a deeper level. It doesn't have to be an anchor or punishment. It could just be inadequacy, right in terms of knowing how to navig ate these feelings. Yes, right, I think the feelings

that our parents can't tolerate in us. Either yes, there's a form they punish you or they just like I can't talk about that. You know, you come home really sad, and you know, again, not one time, but over and over, and maybe you didn't get punished. It wasn't like that, but more no one no one asked you, like, no one followed up. You were just kind of alone in your room. Our body can't tolerate overwhelming feelings in a loneness, and often we you know, kind of point the finger

at the feelings, like the feelings are the problem. The feelings were never the problem. The aloneness is the problem. I actually think that's what trauma is. It's tough experiences encoded with a loneness, right, and so when we're alone and overwhelming feelings, our body can't tolerate it. Where this relational species. So going back to the intergenerational trauma and

how this plays out. It might not be punishment or getting hit or even getting sent to your room, but people say this all the time, like my family just didn't talk about feelings like forget being angry, just like feelings like sadness, disappointment. It was just that was never on the table. Then there's a whole range of feelings, a really wide range that you had to learn to

put away. So then you see feelings in your kids and you're thinking, I want to be there when my kid got cut from the soccer team, but like like your body is like really struggling to go to their room. You're like, I feel awkward, and then instead of kind of pushing through that, in some ways, saying, Okay, I feel awkward because I'm like the first one in my generation to go talk about sadness with someone. Of course that feels awkward. That's carving a new circuit. If we

don't push forward, then we kind of repeat that same pattern. Oh, my kids seems fine, forget it. My kid then learns I guess we're not supposed to talk about sadness. And it continues when we come back the importance of repair and why we all need to look at ourselves first, h you filled a huge need during the pandemic. I know before America shut down, you didn't have an Instagram account. Now you have one point five million followers, a book, a little bit of a many empire going. So why

do you think, Becky, you hit such a chord. And by the way, I've never been so grateful to have grown children then in the last few years, because hats off to all the mothers and fathers, parents everywhere who had to juggle and deal with so much. And I love that. Shout out to everyone listening who had young kids, who had teenagers, who had their first baby, who were single parents, who are going through a divorce, who are who were married and still like, no matter what, it

was hard, it was so hard. And actually the other thing we were talking about before this was how important it is to kids to to just name what's true, to talk about the hard stuff. We often think we're protecting them by not but I think we're actually increasing a lot of their anxiety because again, then they feel alone. So when you're confused and confused, nobody likes feeling alone

and confused. Those two things together are awful, right, So I think during the pandemic, I think something that really maybe like help me hit a stride with people as I do. I think I've always been someone who has never shied away from naming the hard, like even say this is hard. We all yell at our kids, this pandemic sucks, this is so difficult. You are doing an impossible thing. You're a warrior. You did not mess up your kid forever when you yelled. Here are some words

you can use. And I think during that time of so much uncertainty, yeah, when people knew like okay, I can go somewhere and there'll be someone who's naming something that feels right on to what's actually happening in my house, who's not telling me necessarily how to make it all better. But who's just helping me tolerate how hard this is? Yeah? I think we all needed that. And I think that you were hearing the desperate cries of mothers everywhere. What

were they saying to you? What were they struggling with? I guess just about everything, right, Yeah, I mean I think that the biggest thing they were struggling with is like, is is this tell me this is as hard as it feels, you know, like, and it's one of my core mantras for parenting is just this feels hard because

it is hard, not because I'm doing something wrong. And I always think that when something's really hard, if we can just validate for ourselves, Wait, I'm not a horrible parent, Like this just actually is really hard to be home with two kids in a pandemic or even at this stage, this is really hard to manage through a tantrum and a grocery store. We don't then layer on the self blame, which goes into I'm a horrible parent. I messed up this Forever. If people saw me, they want to believe

that I'm the type of parent. When we add that layer, I think hard becomes impossible. And when we remove that layer, which is the impossible, it's still hard. But hard is is far too Here are two impossible. And you talk about the need for repair, um, which you say is something really important for people to understand. Can you tell us what you mean by that? Yeah, I mean I really think you know, for any parent or even nonparent listening to this, I think the single most important strategy

to get good at in our relationships is repair. And you know, I'm sure there's some actual definition for what repair is. To me, I just think it's connecting after a moment of disconnection. And we all know moments with our kids, with a partner, with a colleague, we're like, yeah, we're disconnected. It was not a feel good moment. Repairs the act of going back and forming a connection again after And if you think about what it means to get really good at repair, well, there has to be

a rupture to repair. And I think this is actually helpful to parents. Think. Okay, so the next time I yell at my kid, I'm gonna try to remember this conversation I heard between Becky and Katie being like, Okay, I gotta get good at repair well. To get good at repair after rupture. So okay, check I did step one. I yelled at my kids, like I'm not not a

horrible parent. How to do that? To do the next step, And then the next step is reconnecting first with ourselves and reminding ourselves I didn't mess up my kid forever like I can. I always think of repair. I can rewrite the ending of that chapter, I can go back, I can reopen that file, and when I do, I essentially say, hey, that thing that didn't feel good, you were right to feel that way, and that probably felt scary or probably didn't feel good when I didn't understand

your side of things, and I'm sorry I yelled. I always like to say to my kids, it's never your fault when I yell, because kids, when we don't explain things to them, they self blame to gain control, and we don't. We don't want that for their future. And then some version of I'm working on managing my feelings just like you are, and I am really working on

doing better in the future. And when we do that, we actually change the way the not so great memory lives in a kid's body because surrounding the moment that

felt scarier when they felt alone or misunderstood. Would now because I've rewritten that ending in the chapter, I kind of surround that moment with the elements that we're missing in the first place, compassion, connection, understanding, listening, And I just like, I want every parent to know because we've all had those moments and I'll have that again, and I have them where I'm like in my bathroom and I'm like, oh my god, I got I'm a kid, or I can't believe I said these words, I promise

myself I would never say. And then we spiral as if that defines who we are. And when we can take a deep breath and say whoa repair is, where it's at, repair is where it's at, repair is where it's at, and go back to our kid, I mean, it feels so much better for them. I think we almost underestimate it feels so much better for us too. And then we move forward in such a different way. Your book is called good Inside a guide to becoming the parent you want to be? So can you explain

in a nutshell? I think a lot of people who follow you and who listen to your advice understand this. But for the people who don't Becky, what is your overall philosophy on raising children that that that kids are basically inherently good. Yeah, I mean I believe you know, same with adults. I really do believe we all have this inherent goodness and as our kids are developing, being able to see them as good inside is in no

way permission for their quote bad behavior. Right. Seeing kids as good inside helps us separate And I always do this on my two hands to make it concrete, like they're good identity from there, not so good behavior. Right. And I always think our interventions with our kids fall into two buckets. Either we're looking at our kid as a good kid having a hard time or a bad kid doing bad things. Punishments, consequences, time outs are all

from the bad kid doing bad things bucket. And when we see kids as good inside, then we have a gap between their good behavior, their good identity, and their bad behavior, and then we can actually intervene to help them build skills versus send them away and add shame.

So I think this is an approach that sees kids is inherent the good inside that allows us to build skills, and that allows us to actually raise kids in a way where we're developing all the skills they need for adult Can you expand on the resilience versus happiness idea? Because when I was raising my kids, there was a lot of focus on grit, right, and how to how to develop grit and effort should be praised rather than

the results. So tell me resilience versus happiness? Is that sort of the same thing about that grit versus results are not? Really? Yeah, I think it's like they're definitely like close cousins, you know, so yes, grit, resilience, confidence, they all have slightly different conceptualizations, but I think they're all. You know, we'd all be like I'll take any one of those that's good, you know, can me give me anyone?

We're fine? Um, So yeah, the resilience over happiness, I think is is a really really important concept to think about when we're raising kids, because there's this line I hear a lot like don't just want your kids to be happy? Or don't you want your kids to be happy? And I'm always like no, And then parents often we go to the opposite. They're like, oh, Dr Becky wants her kids to be unhappy, Like, no, I don't want

them to be unhappy either. But when we focus on happiness and childhood, we do something really tricky in terms of kids wiring in stet up for adulthood, where every time kids experienced distress, and what might distress be in childhood Frustration like I can't finish this puzzle, or feeling left out I wasn't invited to that slumber party, feeling disappointed I didn't get that thing I want, I didn't

get the present that I wanted to for the holidays. Exactly, so they experience various forms of distress in childhood, and then if they're wiring is whenever I feel kind of the light go on for distress, I then wire next to it the light going off to return to happy, meaning, right, oh, you weren't invited to that party, I'm throwing you another one, or oh I'll finish that puzzle for you, or or

I'll get you that gift. I'll give you that gift, not because as a parent I've changed my mind, because I actually I am just kind of scared of you having a tantrum. Right then, that's also that instant gratification which relates exactly too. We think about phones and we think about video games, and we think about the obsession with kind of scrolling, which is a lot of instant,

low effort, high gratification moments. This also relates to these moments we're talking about, how do we deal with kids in non screen time situations when they're frustrated and pointed. It's also must be a dopamine inducing reaction that sets them up for quick fixes. But that's exactly right. So I think about this family I saw in the city, and they were a very wealthy family. They were, and they came to me when their kid was sixteen, just

the parents. They said, Okay, here's the situation. We flew to Hawaii on this vacation and they're like, and we didn't fly first class. We don't even think about it. My sixteen year old had a full blown tantrum. Oh brother the airport, right, which brings up like all these entitled and right. But if you think about it, and I took, you know, an inventory of this kid's childhood and very well intentioned parents, This was a kid whose life was all about having a quick fix and being

happy immediately. So when the body then starts to feel frustration or disappointment, you're allowed to feel disappointed if you're used to flying for a class. Sure, I think no one blames that kid for feeling disappointed. It's just like whoa. In my mind, I see, it's like that kid had no skills to manage. Is the same as a two year old having a temper tantrum when you say they won't buy them Coco puffs in the grocery store. Right, it's the same thing. It's just is more embarrassing to

a parent. Right, But this kid's body was wired with feel upset. Where's the happy, where's the immediate fix? There's almost then a phobia of frustration. But we've built that in a kid. So the more we focus on kids being happy in their early years, the more we've actually set them up for disregulation and what looks like entitlement

or anxiety in adulthood. And the more we focus in the early years on helping kids tolerate the range of feelings, then they actually go into adulthood with skills to manage all those feelings, which actually leaves more space to actually cultivate happiness. Is this something that isn't the fault of some of these parents. It's there, you know, we talked about this before, but they're just passing down or are they or they could be working in opposition to the

way they were parented. And I know you talk about reparenting a lot, so what does that mean exactly in these situations. I think there's so many forces that can lead to this right and again, and none of them are that these parents were bad, parents were malintentioned, or maybe they didn't get things when they were little, and now they feel like, I'm in a position that I can give my child everything I didn't get. I think

that that's exactly right. And I always like with parents to rethink um giving kids, you know, the things that really matter, because yes, you know, people think on their own childhood like I didn't I didn't get things right. My guess is if you really look back in your childhood and you remember, I didn't get the toy, I didn't get the vacation, my guess is what felt bad again wasn't just the not getting, but was probably a home where it wasn't validated for you, you weren't connected

to right. And then if we fast forward to the idea of I want to give my kids everything, like what I want to give my kids is setting them up to be fully functioning, confident, resilient adults. It's not that I want to give them the thing on the surface, the toy. I want to give them actually the skills to manage not getting the toy, because I promise you they're going to figure out, if they're confident, resilient, how to get themselves quote toys. But what you can't just

figure out overnight is how to manage tricky situations. Yeah, and so the reparenting I think that really matters is really the act of of giving yourself the things that

you really always needed in childhood and never received. And and there's something really powerful about being an adult is we can now really in profound ways be the adult for those Essentially, you know that that inner child in us, or those inner child parts, we don't have to wait along for our actual parents to give it to us, because we're no longer is dependent on them because we're adults.

So it might be you know, sitting and noticing how you feel, which sounds so soft, but it might just be like I'm gonna take ten seconds and just say to myself after I got a really difficult email from my boss, I might say, you know, hopeck you wait. Pause, I'm upset. That is upsetting to read. I'm allowed to feel that way. I'm gonna figure out what to do. But let me start by just validating my own feelings, okay,

and then I then I problem solved. I promise you the parent who does that is going to be able to show up for their kid if they want to kind of quote be there for their kid, way better than if they just try to memorize what to say to their kid. Because when they actually do that kind of act of reparenting, right, they're actually changing the circuit in their own body, and so something different will activate

with their own kids. So it's almost like grabbing the oxygen masks for yourself before you give it to your kid. I mean, I know that's used a lot, it's become almost to cliche, but getting sort of in touch with your reactions are going to help you manage your kids. Yeah. So here's an example from my my own life. Right. So, I was definitely like a very quote good girl growing up, right,

which I've learned is a pleaser. I was a pleaser exactly exactly, and like the way I always think about that visually is I was you know, raising away, or at least I you know, I internalized that I had to gaze out before I gaze in, like who do you want me to be? How can I make your life easier? Way before I gazed in and thought like, well, what do I want? What's in line with you know,

my own values? Things like that. So fast forward to having my first kid, who is now eleven, I'm starting out, like, you know, five six he just the most positive way of saying is he really speaks up for himself right the other way of saying it, which would be triggering me. He was like why can't he ever take no for an answer? Like why can't he be more people? Leasing?

Why can't he just notice that I don't want him to have a sleepover and be like, mom, you know what, You're a great mom, no problem, Sorry for asking, you know, like that would be nice and he wouldn't. And I'd find myself in these moments, especially when I was frustrated or depleted with other things, saying things that I really

never wanted to say, like what's wrong with you? You're so selfish, you're so spoiled, Like I'd say these things in these moments, and I knew I wasn't going to want to give him a sleepover, But I also know, Becky, there's another way of saying that I could to say, Hey, I'm done talking about this. My answer is no, You're allowed to be upset. And the reason I couldn't wasn't because I didn't memorize that script enough, is because I

was triggered. So one of the reflections I did was, you know, when I think we see something in our kid that bugs us, we think, how can we make our kids more like us? Versus what am I seeing in my kid that I probably had to shut down in myself? And how can I actually almost feel inspired by my kid because I probably need to grow always like I probably need to grow that part of myself. It's not like I need to make my kid more like me. I almost need to make myself or like

my kid. And I was like, yeah, you know, no, wonder it triggers me speaking up for something when I or and no, that's something that I learned not to do as a kid, and so I really did for like these weeks I did this experiment. I was like, I'm going to speak up for myself more, not to my son, but I bet if I do it in other areas of my life, it'll play out and I'll be less triggered. So I remember being in a store and I was returning something and they're like, sorry, it's

past the time you can return it. And I was like, you know, I know what my son would do. I was like, you know, can I talk to a manager like I? I feel like I've been a customer for a long time, and you know, I really feel like this is in line with like what would be appropriate. And I actually was successful and so like all different areas. Instead of thinking my kids such a bad, spoiled kid, I was like, let me reparent the part of me that was such a pleaser and let me try to

speak up. I remember also I was on the subway. I was like, really tired one day. Someone was taking up two seats and I was like, hey, can you move over? I really like to sit. That was definitely against the people pleasing part of me. And then sure enough it wasn't like I've never said those words to my kid. But the trigger moments really changed from that act of reparenting for me, and I think many in my generation we were afraid of our kids a little bit.

We wanted them to like us. We wanted to be their friends. And I think there was such a switch and the parent child relationship from our parents too kind of acknowledging feelings, but to the point where we just wanted them to like us. So how do you get out of that spiral? How do you do enough disciplining? And I know that you want parents to be sturdy and strong and no nonsense about some issues, but also like that is a tough balance, isn't it, Because I

think parents see it as one thing or another. Right, I want to be your friend or I am a parent, Right, Either I'm the I'm the kind of disciplinarian or your buddy. Right Again, it's like those two buckets were like, there's gotta be something in between, and a I think there is. So you know, I think a lot about what I call family jobs, right, And I'm sure you see this all the time. They are places you've worked, Like you can never hire someone to do a job well unless

you've told them what their job is. And actually, I think having clarity as a parent of like what is my job? Like? What really what would I write down in my job description? Is really important? Because without that clarity, we can go to an extreme. So I think parents have two main sets of jobs. So one is, and you're kind of getting to this, it's validating and really kind of empathizing with our kids feelings. That matters. That actually is important because it's how kids learned to regulate

those feelings throughout their lives. Kids can never learn to tolerate feelings that we can't tolerate in them. So when we say you wish you could have that toy, Oh you're really mad that I won't let you have that sleepover, that really matters. But the other part of our job mat are so much too, and that's setting and maintaining boundaries. And I'm really bad at that. It's hard because it goes back to I Fewer people please er people. Pleasers

don't set boundaries for themselves. They actually look at who they to be for others, and they please others they keep people happy with them. And sure enough, the best way to keep someone at least in the moment happy with you is to have no boundaries. You just kind of float around. And by the way, it's easier and easier to tolerate for a parent because saying no is harder than saying yes, I think it's easier short term.

Well that's what I mean, right, But but it also sets parents up for I think all this rage that parents talk about because yeah, it's easier short term because you just become a version of yourself your child in the moment wants you to be. But if you think about that, if you think about having no boundaries, if you think about an egg with no boundaries, guess what, there's no egg anymore. It's spilled out all over the place, right, So the shell in an egg it's like super important

or else the egg ceases to be an egg. It just doesn't even have an identity. So I think I think one of the thing about boundaries that I like teaching parents as parents, like, well, what about consequences and discipline? I think true boundaries in somebody's like, they really replace consequences because what a boundary really is is it's a decision we make or something we do. But what's really important is boundaries tell our kids what we will do,

and they require a kid to do nothing. And that's really important because whenever we set a boundary, we need to say to ourselves, okay, am I telling my kid what I'm gonna do, and does this require my kid to do nothing? Telling a kid stop jumping on the couch is not a boundary. We think it's a boundary. It's not because it would require my kid to get off the couch to be successful saying to my kid, hey, it looks like you want to jump. I can't jump

on the couch. Please get down, and then if they don't, saying hey, I'm gonna come over to you it looks like it's really hard to listen. I'm gonna take you off the couch and put you on the ground and you could go jump on the floor. Now that's boundary. My kid will probably cry. But if I remember, wait, my job is not just to see their feelings, which would be hey, you want to jump, but also my job is to set a boundary. Then at the end of a day, even if I'm tired, I could say

to myself, Okay, I did my job well. I both set boundaries when I needed to, and I empathized and validated with my kids feelings. Instead of only doing one part of that job, which, even if it's easier in the short term, what leads to in the long term, right, is kids really don't learn how to manage their disappointment and frustration because they never had to tolerate it because we kind of like would take it away from them.

When we come back screen time, bribing, and more parenting conundrums with Dr Becky, I think we can't have this conversation about parenting without talking about technology. I am so happy I grew up without technology. I am so happy that it was just coming to the forefront when my children were little, and I see a huge difference between my older daughter, who's four and a half years older than my younger daughter in terms of the role technology

is played in their lives. I feel so bad for parents trying to figure this out because they're also probably having to deal with their own addictive behavior. So we could do three hours on this, but how do you help parents figure this out? Because I do think it's having such a terrible impact on kids their sense of self developing. There's not only it's it's sort of warping their self esteem. It's not giving them inner strength, it's giving them outer validation. I mean, what a mess, What

a mess. It's so true. So in no ways do I have a complete solution for this. It's it's like I always say, like every parent feels awful about their screen time and technology usage in the house. So if you feel awful about it, I do too. It's just it's it's unwinnable. So I think there's a couple of

things I think about. Number One, let's talk about your kids are young, right, So, you know, the thing with screen time when our kids are young that I think it's important to realize is it's just very very low effort, very very high reward moments. It's just like, you know, my kid can go like bing bing bing on like an iPad and have so much fun, or just watch something passively. And what I think we need to think about when our kids are young is how important it

is to have screen time limits. And everyone's family that will look different, but what the limit allows for is for your kid to actually have more high effort, high reward moments, you know, like doing puzzles and reading and learning to interact with peers. It's hard compared to just watching a show or you know, having a video game. And so during these years and our kids are developing, I always encouraging I always encourage parents not to only

think like how much TV is too much? Right, But it's more well, do what can I preserve time where my kid is actually learning the skills that they're going to need to learn in terms of managing frustration and things like that. So that how I think about when they're younger. As our kids get older, I think one of the most important things is just to develop an alliance with our kids as early as possible. We can't wait till our kids are ten or their team to

start talking about screen time. And we have to think about this in a collaborative way with that with them, because they're going to get to an age where probably they do have a phone. And if that's the first time that we say, hey, let's talk about your usage, it seems too much like we don't have an alliance to lean on. So even when your kids are I don't know making this up six seven eight, I encourage parents to sit down with everyone's devices away and to say,

let's talk about let's talk about screen time. Let's talk about what you like about it, let me hear you out what's your favorite part, and let's talk about why it can be like a little dangerous for all of us. Right, something I always talk about with my kids is do you notice that no matter how much there is, it

feels like never enough. And I always say it feels like it's a cop with a hole in the bottom no matter how much screen time we have, right, we think if we put in more, it's going to fill us up, but it just always like it always always comes out like those are the conversations that again we're

not fixing something. But now we have a common language, right, because if we go into those teenage years with our kids wanting to be on all the apps on TikTok, on snapchat, on you know, and and we haven't to that point talked about this stuff, then we definitely still can. But but it's really really hard. And then I think the other thing that I think at any age around

technology is going back to boundaries. We have to be willing to tolerate our kids not being happy with us, right, And like that comes up over and over with screen time. You know, It's funny because when I was on the Today Show, we had a parenting expert named Dr Sylvia Rim. She wrote me a letter recently which just reminds me

I need to write her back. But she talked about parenting as an inverted triangle that it's always easier to give kids more power and authority as they get older, but it's very hard to reduce it once you have. And I think the same goes with phones in screen time or really any kind of positive reinforcement, right, or it's not really positive reinforcement, um, any kind of I guess freedom in a way, Yeah, I guess I would think.

I think two things about that. I think, Yes, of course, it's harder as they get older, especially as they get into those ages with their job is to start to feel more independent and separate from us. So raining in control when kids are developmentally supposed to be taking more

control is tricky. But but I think I think there's another side that I say to parents often because I'll her parents say like, well, you know, I gave my kids this many hours of iPad use for my kid is free reign over their phone, Like what am I supposed to do now they're sixteen or now they're like we're always able to say to our kids some version of hey, I want to tell you about a decision

I've made that I know you're not gonna like. And still I'm communicating to you, because it is super important in terms of just keeping everyone in this family safe. And I say this to my kids all the time, like, my number one job is to keep you safe, and I will always make decisions even if they're ones that you don't like, because I love you that much to tolerate your anger at me, to keep you safe and

put you on a path that I think is important. Like, and I think we don't say that enough as parents. So maybe someone's listening to this and they're like, yeah, like I do feel like my six year old just watches too much TV. What can I do? You can say, you know, starting tomorrow you have this much TV instead. I know that's a change, and I know that's probably gonna be hard, and I'm already getting ready for the what it's already over. You're the worst. I'm ready for it.

My number one job is to keep you safe, and right now, a version of safety is having less screen time. So we're going to make that change, even if you're upset, Like, but hard to do that, and when your kid is sixteen, it's harder. It is definitely harder. And I don't recommend,

of course, at sixteen, you have these unilateral moments. But it might be saying to your sixth year old, Hey, we need to have a family meeting because phone us has gotten out of control, and maybe you think my phone use has to It's like we're all at the table together on our phones. I'm willing to hear that. But what I know is we need some changes. I know those changes are gonna be hard on everyone. I also know where a family who can do hard things

when they're in everyone's best interest. So let's come to that meeting with ideas. Let's go into that meeting knowing we're each gonna have to compromise a little bit. And let's go into that meeting knowing we all love each other and we're going to figure this out. I feel like that's a kind of leader, Like organizations make change sometimes, right,

Like it's kind of random and bring this up. But I just read that amazing letter from the CEO of Stripe announcing layoffs and what they're doing, and I mean, just it was amazing lesson in starting this, like, here's some not great news, here's news that people are gonna not like the hear. But I'm gonna be direct. I'm gonna tell you what's happening, and I'm also going to tell you I have confidence we're gonna get to the other side. And it was it's so holding to hear

a communication like that. And I think you're so right about looking at your own behavior. Because my daughter came over last night. I hadn't seen her for a while, and she said, Mom, you have a real problem with your phone. I came in and you barely looked up. And I said, I just wanted to finish this in Instagram posts that I've been working on, and like, she said, really, you you have a problem. I think about this a lot, Katie like, and it makes me it always actually I

try not to make it make me feel guilty. I use it to be motivated to make a slight change with my own kids. When I was a kid, when I was my kid's age, right, my kids are five, eight eleven, and I was with my parents, I would think, like our parents, maybe this was you when you were raising your kids. They had to work hard to be distracted. For me, they would have had to open the New York Times and read the paper to like block me out.

And now, like, if I think about the percentage of time with my kids too, that kids look at their parents and there's literally a phone in between them blocking that connection. I think the percentage is like disturbingly high. And then when we think about kids, behave your kids need connection to feel safe more than anything else. They want to feel close to us a very high percentage of time, there's literally the screen they see the back of our phones right before they see our face. Then

they get more just regulated, right. And so when I think about that myself, what what I do? I literally call it something just to make it fun and not guilt inducing for me, I'm like, my kids need P and P time. It's just play no phone, play no phone. And I say that to my kids. Hey, you've probably noticed I'm on my phone a lot. I'm putting it behind two doors because I need two doors, Like one doesn't work for me, of course. And I said, and I'm all yours. We could do anything you want to

do and play dough, a game, whatever it is. And I'm just fully present. And for any parent listening, you don't have to say, Okay, I'm not gonna be on my phone for a week. You can even say I'm gonna give my kids five moments of this like PN p time when I wouldn't usually in a day, and it really does start to make a big shift. I remember when Susan Surrandon and Tim Robbins were married, and this was predated iPhones. They would not answer their phone landlines.

This is how long ago it was, between five and eight, and I thought that's so great, Like they would just push out any kind of external distraction so they could really focus on your on their kids. And I you like, that's something that's really important to do now more than ever because it is so accessible and ubiquitous. I think that's right, and I think for all of us. But there might be a work emergency or something we can say, like you know, well we can have a family emergy.

I mean there there's there is like this. I don't an emergency. I'm not like such a I don't like to like stoke fear. But like our our kids need our time. We don't want it to get to a point where there's an emergency with them, right, and we have to protect going back to boundaries, like we need boundaries around some of time with our kid for sure. More with Dr Becky. Right after this, let me go through a couple of quick questions, we got do it? My type A friends have questions about what you call

df k s, Yes, deeply feeling kids. What do you do if you have a deeply feeling child but you are also a deeply feeling adult. That's a bad combo, I'm assuming I don't think it's a bad combo. I think that actually, this is like the highest percentage of the members in our membership are just this. They like, yeah, they're like I watched the Deeply Feeling Kids Workshop and

I didn't even realize how much like it was. It was healing for me, you know, because I realized, you know, the type of kid I was so deeply feeling kids or kids who really do feel things more intensely than other kids. I always think they have like bigger pores. That's how I visualize it. So more comes in, and somebodys are also scared of more of them spilling out.

And so if you have a deeply feeling kid and you are a deeply feeling adult, and I like to be a straight shooter, I'd say, like, actually that reparenting work. Like when I in in our good inside system, the Reparenting Workshop plus the Deeply Feeling Kids workshop are are completely game changing for parents because it goes back to what you're saying. I first, I have to kind of do some of that rewiring and repairing and um, you know, kind of work inside myself that helps me show up differently.

And then deeply feeling kids really do need different strategies and other kids because they reject kind of most of the things that help other kids. And there's nothing there's there's very little. I'm as proud of is our Deeply Feeling Kids Workshop. It lays it all outstep by step for people. Okay, so people should watch that if they

need to know more about it. Um, have you gotten much backlash to this sort of good inside philosophy, which is basically a rejection of original sin, right that people are inherently good? I mean it's hard to think that, especially in the world we're living in right now, Becky.

So what if people said about that philosophy? And I guess you got into it a little bit with Glenn and Doyle a little and I every once in a while, not too often, get a d M that says something like this is at odds with like my deeply held religious beliefs. You know, Um, you know, and I'm not. I don't have great knowledge of religion. That's definitely not

where I you know, flex so um. But but other people have said, you know, a big part of our approach is this idea of holding multiple truths at once, this idea of two things are true, which are electic thinking dialectic thinking, and it relates to holding boundaries with kids even you know, like, wait, two things are true, Like I'm in charge of this decision, you're in charge

of your feelings. Like we're both doing good job. But I think the idea that babies are born with inherent goodness and that also we all need a lot of help along the way, right we all? You know, to me, that's how we can hold those both at once, or to bring out the good in us, even if it's not all good, that's exactly right, to bring it out,

that's exactly right. One person wants to know what's what are the best ways to incentivize and reward good behavior and hard work and discourage slash punish bad behavior, bad attitudes. And I think she's asking this because she relies quite heavily on bribery, and she says, I don't think that's great yeah, I mean, and I think I do see this a lot like the sticker charts, the rewards, the prize is that you get this for doing your homework.

You know what it leads to understandably as kids who has say older say like I'm not doing that, Well, what's my prize? What are you gonna give me for cleaning up my room? What are you gonna give me for doing homework? I don't think any of us want to be in that situation when our kids are older and so bribery these kind of quote incentives, which really just means external incentives. I think. I think we shoot ourselves in the foot the more we use them. And

so it goes back to changing things. Like we can always say to our kids like, hey, I've been doing this for a while, and you know what I'm stopping. I'm stopping. And here's why. I know you have it in you and I know you want to be a good student, like even if homeworks hard, like you're you're a good kid, you like learning things. I know you have responsibility in you and you can be a responsible member of our family. And just like you see me cleaning up my room, like I know you have it

in you to do that. So I think first, like I often think about this visual like I need to see the good in my kid before they can access it themselves. And actually, every time we like bribe the kid, we kind of say, like, I think you're someone who needs to be coerced into doing a good behavior doesn't feel good, actually, but I do think that when kids

are really little. I have a friend whose child had to wear a mask for an interview and they wouldn't let the child apply or be a part of a program without that, And my friend bought her son a toy in order to get him to wear a mask. I mean, it's some stage developmentally kids don't really understand reason and you can't really reason with them. But I

actually think kids never listen because of reason. I don't think a lot of times we do either, I think, I mean, that's a bigger topic talking about, like why kids cooperate and listen. And certainly I'm not rigid. There are moments of course you're like I need this to happen with my kid. It's this one off thing. I too, would give myself plenty of permission to be like, hey do this, I'll get you ice creams, please do it.

Of course we have those moments, but I think we have to ask ourselves as parents, is this something one off I give myself permission to do here there, or this in general? This strategy that I'm using over and over and over to get cooperation from my kids, or to have my kids do things that they clearly don't

even have intrinsic motivation to do. Like my kid does not do their homework unless I offer them candy at the end, Like, well, that's different to me than Okay, I need them to put their seatbelt on on the airplane and avoid a big tantrum, and I'm just like, here's all the snacks in the world. Do it. So I think I think that's like a different category. I think though we do need a different system, and it's a system, it's not a moment for understanding why do

kids cooperate? Why do kids do things they don't want to do? Why do kids do homework? What's getting in a kid's way of doing homework? Probably not that they're not getting a prize. I wonder if they have frustration tolerance skills, Do they have the skills to organize and plan things? Do they feel stupid compared to the other kids in their class. Are they perfectionistic and they're worried about getting things wrong? So without a bribe, how do you get kids to cooperate? So are you saying you

find the root causes of their lack of cooperation? I mean, I think, why do any of us cooperate? Right? Like, why would I go get my husband a glass of water when we're both sitting on the couch if you asked me versus saying like, get yourself water? Right? Um? Well, I think it has to do with how how seen we feel by someone, how connected we feel the state of our relationship in that moment, and in a lot

of situations, the skills we have. Right. So, if my kid isn't cleaning up their room, let's say that that's a situation, and I'm like, okay, I'll give you dessert or whatever. I'll give you this bribe if you clean up your room. I'm not actually getting to like, well, why it's not just cleaning up the room. Why aren't

they doing something that I want them to do? Right? So, maybe part of it is organization, Like they need help, they need a visual on their on their wall, right, Okay, well, after you get home, you put your book back away, you clean up your room, we have dinner. I don't know,

there could actually be an organization skill that's missing. Maybe my kid feels so controlled by me and we get in fights so often that not cleaning their room is there one way of saying like fuck you, you know, basically on my own person, and this is one area of my life I can control, So I'm just gonna not clean it up to send you the message. Then I would say we need a very different intervention, right, that's like, okay, well what needs you're pairing in your relationship?

And I think these things we hear it as parents, and I know I rolled my eyes to him, like, oh, that seems like so much time. I was going to say it sounds exhausting, but but you know what's really exhausting is when we bribe and punish and reward our kids way through their first thirteen years of our life, their life, and then we have a thirteen year old who we have no relationship with, and those kids do not talk to us about social media. Those kids do

not respect a curfew. Those kids do not tell us when they're in dangerous situations with other kids, because for thirteen years of our life we've been bribing them and coursing them instead of developing a relationship with them. And when you develop a relationship with them, which does not mean giving them everything they want, there's a lot of again firm boundaries while recognizing the validity of their reactions.

Then we get to a situation where we can say to our kids, hey, I notice you're not cleaning up your room. And here's the thing, Like, there must be something getting in the way. And you know, in our house we take these things seriously. You have some stuff in your room we have to take care of. I do. So let's just get to the bottom of this together. What might make you clean it up, what might make it easier? Like and and then like literally, this does happen.

It's not a fantasy where kids are like, oh, look, I just always forget okay, what a schedule? Help? Oh it's no fun. I know this is not you know, it's not that fun. Would it be a little more fun if we, like, I don't know, put on a song in our house and like kind of we had music on and you cleaned your room at the same time I cleaned my room. You know, like, let's think about this together. I mean that's just in general, dada of collaborative problem solving, which number one is more effective?

Number two preserves your relationship with your kid, and number three actually sets them up to develop the skills they need so when they're twenty and up and out of your house, they can function as adults. This is the last question. I mean, I could talk about this all day. It's really interesting, um, And it's making me think about all the things I did wrong. No, no, no, no wrong. Rethinking is not about being wrong. It's about considering new ideas that that makes sense to you. Now, that's all

if they do. Um, one person who went through a contentious divorce, and apparently, I guess a lot of people with young kids got divorced post pandemic. Um, she asked selfishly. I'd like to know how you manage kids who have to live in two totally different houses because of shared custody. How do you help them reset when they get to your house if where they're coming from is so different. I bet a lot of people are talking about that sadly. Yes, so I'd want to say that Number one I wish

I could do full justice to this. Obviously, this is like a complex situation that there's not one quick easy answer to. And actually, time and divorce is something I care a lot about because of course it happens to a lot of kids. So a couple of just quick ideas about it. Number One, it's totally normal for kids to struggle in those transitional moments they are living, leaving one world with one set of rules and something they've adjusted to in that relationship, and they have to make

a complete switch. Right, It's like a different house, it's different rules, it's different parents. It's so just understanding, Okay, my kids, not my kids, not like a difficult kid. This is just a lot. And that doesn't mean you're messing up your kids. I think we we we do that.

We're like, oh so I'm messing up my kids forever, They're gonna be messed up for It might be helpful though, if they're similar rules in each house, right, And I think the reality, especially if it's a contentious divorces, it's hard to communicate, right, So, um, so just understanding that because then what happens is when you get your kids in your house, right, instead of saying like okay, dinner time, You'll be like, you know, I'm gonna I'm just gonna

build in like fifteen minutes of like having a hard time time. I'm just gonna like build it in so I don't add my own frustration. So knowing that really helps Number two. I think this is really important. Communicating with our kids directly about this change without needing to fix it. Just naming it is key. And I think a lot of times as parents we don't communicate until we have an answer. With our kids. They don't often need answers, they just need someone to name what's happening.

Just I always say name what's true. So saying to our kids, hey, it's probably tricky to go from dad's house to my house. Right, It's probably hard to go from one house and they do things one way and they have to get in the car. I know it wasn't too long ago before we all lived in the same house and I have two and that that's hard, and I get that that, but that does to a kid's body. Is it just makes a kid feel like, ah, yes, that is what's happening for me. Somebody understands me. I'm

not alone in this experience. This can be talked about hugely, hugely helpful. I think that one of the things I tend to do is I'm a fixer. And I think we've touched on this a lot in this conversation. But sometimes you just in order to make kids feel seen and heard. That doesn't mean your default is fixing. And I'm always trying to solve problems, and sometimes people just want to be heard and seen and and share their feelings with out and that have their feelings validated. That

is a really bad habit of mine. I'm like, Okay, well, what are we going to do to solve this problem? And then sometimes it exacerbates the feelings of anger and frustration because I've automatically gone to how are we going to make this better instead of just sitting in the discomfort of having someone upset. And I think that's like I think, I think all of us do that. And to me again, in these hard moments, visuals really really help. And you said a word that evokes a visual for me.

So when people are really upset and I tried to do my kids, I'm less good at doing at my husband working on it right like I picture him, or you can picture your daughter like sitting on a bench, literally sitting on a bench, and it's the bench of whatever upsetting thing happens, and the bench of I wasn't invited to this, or the bench of this thing at my workplace didn't go the way I wanted, or I don't feel successful. I don't feel successful. That's a great example.

I'm sitting on the bench of not feeling successful. And if everyone thinks about their urges, we often have the urge to do one of two things. Either want to yank them off that bench because we see a like happier bench, so we say things like, but look at this and what about this and think about it this way? Or why don't you do this exactly right? So what what that images is like? We find them on the bench of not feeling successful, and we like try to yank them off, or we try to convince them. I

always think like their bench isn't their bench? We're like, but what are you talking about? You have a great job, right and like so either way, Katie, going back to that theme of a loneness being the hardest thing the next on the bench next to on the bench, that's exactly right. And I think as a parent or as a partner. You just know. You don't need someone to

tell you. You just know internally, like the way you're responding, you know whether you're sitting with them or you're taking them off, because sitting is someways it's so simple, that's so hard you say, like, oh, I'm glad you're talking to me about this, or tell me more, or that I mean or that sounds really hard, like to feel that way right, or oh like well when does that come up for you recently? I want to learn more about out it Like it's just yeah, you're literally sitting

on that bench, and that's that's what people want. And I actually think that's what resilience building is because then you're child. The next time they feel that they have literally encoded your support around them, they're less alone. And I always think you can't take away the hard, but we can always take away the alone. And every time we fix it, ironically, the next time a kid feels that way, all they remember is being alone on the bench.

They don't remember our solution because they just wanted someone present there. So yes, all of us can be me too, can be a little bit better at bench sitting. I wonder why I'm so bad at it. I wonder if I have a hard time dealing with my own sadness and my own bad feelings about myself, and you make yourself off well, which can go back to intergenerational patterns like well, okay, if that's hard for me to sit and feelings, and again, problem solving can be super I'm

like that too. I'm quick to action and that can work for us, but sometimes sometimes not. And so yes, if people had a hard time sitting on our benches with us, we have a hard time sitting on our own we see in our kid we have a hard time sitting with them until we make some small shifts and then end up making really powerful intergenerational change as a result. Well, I can see why you're called the

parent whisperer whatever people call you. I don't know who actually called me that people call me that somebody does, but Dr Becky Kennedy. The book is called Good Inside, a guide to becoming the parent you want to be, And also I would add the person you want to be, because these are skills that you can use every day with all the important people in your life. I completely agree. Thank you, It's been such a treat to talk to

you hope it's not the last time. Next Question with Katie Kurik is a production of My Heart Media and Katie Kurik Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Curic, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements and Adriana Fasio. The show is edited and mixed by Derrek Clements. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my morning newsletter, wake Up Call,

go to Katie Currek dot com. You can also find me at Katie Curreic on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.