Thanksgiving Break: Martha Stewart

always serves a very moist turkey. Last year, Katie and I met with the inimitable Martha Stewart at the headquarters of her empire, Martha Stewart Living Omni Media. The offices take up an entire city block, appropriately so in the Chelsea neighborhood of Manhattan, right along the Hudson River, and they definitely passed the white glove tests. They were beautiful and of course very clean. Martha, no surprise here is not particularly messy. We would never get along. We would

be Oscar and Felix. And we walked around the joint afterwards, and I have to tell you, the place is stocked. It's it's pretty amazing color coded design books, test kitchens, plural, a million different props for photo shoots. As Martha might say, Brian, it's a good thing anyway. For more than thirty five years, Martha Stewart has dominated all things domestic. She's lent her good taste and name to everything from TV shows, cookbooks, to bath towels, meal kits, magazines, and so much more.

She's like a cottage industry, and I think she's made elegance accessible to the average person. And in our conversation, we wanted to get a better sense of the woman behind the empire, how she stays so productive, what motivates her, and the ups and downs in her life and career. When we interviewed her, she was just putting out a slow cooker cookbook. It was her eighty ninth cookbook, if you could believe that. And by the way, I'm still planning to purchase a slow cooker. I just looked at

her cookbook the other day, Brian. It's sitting on my kitchen counter and I was like, you know what, I need to try some of these. You've got to do it. Slow cookers are awesome. You prep everything in the morning and time you've got a wonderful meal. I'm gonna make it happen. She also was just starting her new TV show with Snoop Dogg called pot Luck Tenner Party. Get the double on Tendra there, folks, pot Lucky. I guess the show really is brought in the green because it's

just rapid second season anyway. You know, we've really, we've really gone off the rails here. Anyway, Let's get to our conversation with Martha Stewart, and you might want to have a plate of leftovers at the ready, because this podcast is going to make you very hungry, and not just because of Snoop Dogg. Before we go all the way back, I think a lot of people remember that moment when Martha Stewart living Omni Media went public and you served homemade brio sh at the New York stock Et.

Tell us a little bit about the journey of the company since then to the point that you're sort of selling it now you're no longer. That was the probably one of the most exciting days in my life, except for the day that my daughter Alexis was born, uh and maybe the day I got married, and then two days that my grandchildren were born. Uh, maybe my cats and my dogs, but most exciting day of your life. But I have a lot of I have a lot

of pets. So this was a very exciting day going public because I had worked really hard to build a superb company, Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia, and it was kind of a cutting edge company. And this was a company me that actually took into consideration the Internet, the television, the printed word, the media, as well as merchandising. So it was really truly on the media. And we still are. We're still on the media. I love I love the

idea of being on the media. And we took ourselves away from publishing the magazine with Time Inc. We started publishing on our own uh. And that day, um, we went public at a share of I think it was eighteen dollars a share, which went up to about thirty two dollars. I was a multibillionaire at that day. It was so I drove up Madison Avenew after after the long day, and I said, I said, God, I can buy pretty much anything. Did you know? I was so stupid.

I should have I should have spent it all then because everything was much cheaper than than it is now you could and I don't. Well, I should have bought could have, should have, would have, could have. That's a whole chapter in my autobiography, which I am penning right now. You are making one too. We're gonna I'm not gonna tell you anything else then, because you'll you'll copy me, forget my sister. But that should is I'm sure it's a big chapter in your life too. And it's one

of those things that happens to everybody. I mean you. I remember every single antique that I didn't buy it, every single auction I went to from the time I was married in nineteen sixty one. Can you imagine it seemed too expensive at the time. No, it just seemed though I can't afford it, or maybe it will fit. And I should have bought everything. I should have been the biggest consumer because but I am a very frugal person and I still oh my god, it's and my

daughter is more frugal than you are. And my daughter, thank you, points out all the time, why don't you have your own airplane, mom? Why don't you have your own yacht in the river? And you know, she she knows I could have had pretty much anything. I still Actually I've done pretty well, and I should we still do some of those things. But I'm not an extravagant liver. I live simply personally, although I do have you know, I live on a farm of nice I know, but

it's simple. I don't know. I I looked at your blog the last few days preparing for this interview. I thought, who lives like this? Maybe the Queen of England. No, I think the Queen of England and Martha. I don't we have a lot of staff anyway. Well, I think the thing about Martha is that, you know, I've always thought that you have made elegance accessible and I think you predated sort of this whole notion of nesting and of making beautiful things and making a house a home

and all that. And what what made you realize that there was an appetite for that in this country. I was brought up by a mother who really took the art of homemaking to the next level. She made everything, She sewed our clothes, she canned the tomatoes, she made a delicious meal three times a day for eight people. My mom was, you know, she was a very good example to me of wanting to elevate a simple life into a good, really good life, healthy life. And we

were simple. I mean we. I lived in a in a three bedroom house on Elm Place in the New Jersey which I go back to see sometimes. And people almost had a heart attack when I knocked on the door the last time, and did you bring them some cookies at least? So I just want to I said,

you know, I used to live here. They said, we know you're useful area, and uh, could I please see my old bedroom which I shared with my sister Kathy, And I would put Kathy on the right hand out of the bed, which had the night light where I could read. I would make her go to sleep on that side to warm the bed because we didn't keep it. We kept the house pretty cold and saving fuel all that stuff. Um, and so then I would drag her to her side of the bed. Before Martha was younger,

she has not forgiven me, believe me. And I think a lot of people imagine you're like this major wasp, and I no. I'm I'm a daughter of two Polish American people. They were born here, but my grandparents, all four grandparents were born in Poland and they came to the United States on ships, and you know, they could see the island where they landed right here in New York Harbor, and they signed in and two went to Buffalo,

New York. My grandfather was a trained in My grandfather was ski My mother's father was a trained iron monger decorative iron work, and uh, and my other my father's family all moved to Jersey City. I think about you because I know how close you were to your mom, Big Martha, unbelievably close. And and did she ever come on the Today Show with me? You know, I don't know.

I feel like she might have, but I feel like I've met her definitely, And I know you always spoke of her, and it was really she was a really great mother, uh, and one of those mothers who had six kids and every child was equal, no matter what, no matter what the bad things we did, we were all equal. And then my parents and that was until the day she died. We were all equally all around her bid when she died. And she died at nine four and almost ninety four years old. So she's she

had a great life, never sick. She just finally decided it was time. How many years ago was that that was about, I don't. I don't remember things like years, um, which is a good thing. Do you remember things are years? Well, I remember my mom died. I do. My mom died three years ago on Labor Day, and and so I remember everything, but not. I just I think about my mom so much and I miss her so much. So I wondered if you felt the same. I miss my mother a lot, and I wonder, I wonder, you know,

what would mother think about this or that? Um, when I'm making a delicious meal. She would come over on Sunday's pretty much every Sunday, from from Western Connecticut where she lived with my sister Laura. She would drive herself and then when she got in past ninety, I used to sit and send somebody to pick her up. UM, and she would come to my house and eat the healthiest, delicious lunch. She had a great appetite that she'd take

a walk with me. Then she'd have a massage. I always got my massure over for mom and UM, and we'd go to a movie and she'd have a fabulous day. And but she was What I really loved about her was that egalitarian attitude towards all her her children and so even though her daughter was rich and famous, the other five kids were were famous justice successful in her eyes. Yeah. So it occurred to me as we were preparing for this that you know, you were a model early in

your career. You were a stockbroker for several years and you didn't really become quote Martha Stewart until you were in your forties. Yeah. I was a late bloomer, which is like Julia Child. Actually, that's who it reminded me of. I was a late bloomer. And my gynecologist, uh there, I don't know he even called me a late bloomer. So in what context? Because said that I was a late bloomer in terms of my in terms of my business life. And isn't that funny that your doctor would

call you a late bloomer? I thought it was crazy, like like my gardener calling me a late bloomer. So when your first book came out, well, Martha didn't really answer that earlier question though, which is how did you know that this was a really potentially huge market for what you were saying. After being a stockbroker and and working with people's money, I then retired to Westport, and I did started looking around for what you were doing,

a catering business. And I started a catering business with a friend called Norma Collier, and she was a famous model at the time and she wanted to have a business too, So we started this catering business dealing with people's appetites other than their and not their pocketbooks, really but the same thing. And they were very similar. I mean, people could be real nasty or real nice, money or appetite. And then Norma had to retire early because she was

way too hard the work. And I liked the physical labor. I liked the building a restaurant every night and then breaking it down and cleaning the cards. I mean, believe me, I'm a glutton for punishment. I am. I am a worker. B I just brought up like that. But um, I realized that the art of homemaking really and truly had not been celebrated in an appropriate way. And I thought

of my mother all the time. Here's this fabulous woman who was also a very hard worker, but she hadn't been celebrated as a homemaker and to be able to raise the kids on they were making when my when my mother wasn't teaching, my father was working they were living on a salary of about eleven thousand a year. And this is a long time ago, but still that's very little money to manage. That's why the garden was Yeah, that's why the garden was so big. That's why the

clothing was made by hand. The sewing machine was always busy. Mom didn't get very many hours of sleep, you know, the whole thing. And we were not poor. We did not consider ourselves poor in any way. So when did you realize that this thing you were doing, that homemaking and cooking and sewing and gardening, could become a business. And well, I started writing books in two And I'm

sure you have my Entertaining book. I probably, And I actually still remember the pretty picture of you on the cover. Your hair was long and I think it was maybe in a half updo or something, and I had yes, And I remember your basket weave um with frosting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it wasn't that in there? Oh yeah, definitely. Well I think I read that before I started. I started to write books. Because I started, I started to realize that my friends were just like me. We all needed some

encouragement to entertain better. We needed better recipes. That could be done that weren't too complicated, and there were no at that time, very few illustrated cookbooks, and I, you know, I considered myself as crazy, I know, but I considered myself kind of a really good cook at the time. And so I wrote this book entertaining and my publisher I remember saying, if you still ten thousand copies, you should be happy. I said, I know twenty five thousand

people who will buy this book. Because I have been catering for a while and I had all South Bees clients. I had the museums in New York hired my me for my services. I did parties at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. How many coffees did it? So it's it's way way over a million coffies. So I don't know the latest. I should I should know the exact number, But you don't wake up in the morning and say, let's look and see. I'm sure. I'm sure it's way over a million. Because by the way, that was for

the first of what over a hundred. Well we're up to we're up to ninety now, and we just published here. This is the right That's what I knew. One called slow Cooker which are eighty nine, and then the newly Way Cookbooks coming out very shortly and that will be our And then Martha's Flowers comes out in February. I'm excited about that. So does that teach you how to arrange flowers? How to grow and arrange? It's growing, enjoying

and arrange flowers. That's your favorite flower? I like fragrant flowers. I like lilacs. Oh, I like tu lips. I like roses, like panes. I love piannies, you know, I I love piannies, but I feel like they become everybody's favorite flowers, so that makes me not like them. Don't don't feel like that? Now? You know what I'm into Martha, Well, obviously hydranges. I don't know. My hydranges were on steroids. They needed a bikini. This year this was the best year for hydrangees, right,

apples like apple It was crazy. But I'm really into dahlia's right now. Dalis are fabulous. They're so pretty, They're so gigantic, like dahlias and zinnias. I think together they're pretty. They're pretty. Brian. Yeah, I know, yes, every now and then I can surprise you can I ask you, though you're so incredibly productive all these books and TV shows and magazines, and I read you only need four to five hours of sleep per night. Can you walk us through a typical Martha day? I mean, what did you

do today? For example? Today's today's like New York. So that's not so interesting. Yesterday was a good day. Okay, Okay, so yesterday I have I don't have live in help, but I do require that my keeper or keepers. Sometimes I have to come in at seven, so I can't be in bed at my housekeeper coms. I just don't do that. So I get I'm up before they're up, and I take um the covers off the bird cages. And I have read factory canaries in my house. They're

beautiful and they're singing. And then I have three cats and five dogs in Bedford and where live most of the time, I can I commute to New York. I read somewhere you have four drivers. Well yeah, but not all the same time. No, No, I know, but I have. My days are so tight, days are so long, and you can only they can only be can't forty hours a week and they can't be tired. So that's why all right, but um, but Brian is just jealous. But all right, so we've we've taken care of the birds.

So then um, and so then I I make breakfast for everybody. So I made the cappuccinos for everybody because the eggs come from your chickens. Right, yes, yes, you've mentioned. We have salmon for breakfast because some a friend had sent me two beautiful big salmon's. A lion caught salmons from Alaska last week and I had to eat them. So I poached salmon. I'm doing I'm doing a little blog on that on how to poach a salmon. And it's oh, it's pretty pictures. And so I photographed the

blog and I make the salmon. No, no, we just eat it with lemon juice. It's so tasty. Yeah, like yogurt, cucumbers. Nothing for breakfast. That this is breakfast and then for lunch and so then so then after that, I and my green juice. We have green juice. Every morning. Everybody drinks green juice because it's like power. So what do you put in your green So it's spinach, celery, parsonally mint, maybe a piece of fruit of some sort, like a pear.

Green pear is good. Um, a piece of melon or a piece of papaya or mango, whatever, it's very good juice. Everybody delicious and we drink that. Then I went on a horseback ride, and that was at ten o'clock. I was ready for the horseback right after doing getting make sure everybody's doing lots of horses and I have six horses. Bedford has a has a series of bridle trails about three hundred miles, so you can get lost, you can have a good time. Does Ralph Lauren live up there?

To the next tror to me? We like, Hey Ralph, Martha by Ralph. Um, I'm I'm the farm at to Ralph's estate. I'm the farm at Okay, Yes, the mottest farm next to Ralph. We have a very nice neighborhood. And then, oh, I should have told you then then I'll tell you about Friday night afterwards. But and then I came back from the horseback ride. I made the lunch, so I sautade some onions from the garden, fresh onions and some red and yellow peppers, and I made a

for tata. I'm delicious for Tata, studded with little lots of cream, cheese, which I like in for Tata. I don't know why, but I just like it. And I we had little cheese puffs that were left over from Friday night supper, and that was a salad of dark red and green lettuce. Then we made fifty gallons of apple cider. Or would you bring some of that apple cider over here? Fifty gallons of this and you know how hard it is to carsh the apples. It's delicious apple.

Take a sip, it's so good. What kind of apples did you use? Who knows? On my property? We must have fifty varieties of assis. Delicious i've ever had. We compare it to other I think it's really just the variety of apples. I think. Um. So we did that, and while they were doing that, I shucked and scraped the corn off, about maybe sixty ears of corn, and I sewed and I saw tade all the kernels and a little bit of butter with some some water, and then I frowe was I think I froze ten quarts

of corn kernels. And then I made a great pot of from again, there's so many tomatoes. I made a great pot of tomato soup, just tomatoes and onions, threw them all in this giant pot and cooked and cooked and cooked until then I put it through the food so you get all the seeds and skins out. I think we made eight quarts of tomato soup and relaxing Sunday. Then I went, Oh, my friend called Memory. My friend Memory called and said, you have to go see this garden.

It's on the open days and Greenwich Open Days is the Garden Conservancy, which is a very fantastic organization. I belong to that, and people who belong open their gardens to other gardeners. So I went to see Mr Landman's garden in Greenwich, which is incredible, fifteen acre garden. Made me sick because because if I feel we're happy for him, when I when I get jealous. The only time I'm ever jealous. It's not envy, it's just jealous. Anyway, his

garden is so beautiful. Then I went to see my friend Memory, who was lying in bed because she has a cut on her leg. Who knows. And then I left there. I got in a bad mood because she was in bed. And then I went home and I went We searched for my missing peacocks. Were always missing two peacocks. They were out eating with the This is a busy day. It is a busy day. It sounds it is fun. The peacocks were hanging out with the

wild turkeys. Now there's a gang of five wild male turkeys and my two male peacocks that I allow out of their enclosure. Uh, they have kind of befriended the wild turkeys. And is there any nookie going on? Peacocks a band of boys and uh, so we could tell her forever. I mean, you don't know, these are so silly. I hope this is not boring to you. Love you love. I went to get a massage, I went to get the Chinese reeflexology and did something where you I did prove.

Then I went home and I did a little bit more cooking. But I had a column do this morning, so I had to work on my column on the restoration of furniture. So I had to write that. And that's that was my day. See that's a Sunday. It's time to take a quick break. But when we returned, we're going to talk to Martha about those five months she spent in the slammer. It's something she has rarely talked about, and we're going to get the scoop on

her time spent working with Donald Trump. That's right after this. These days, if we want to know something, we ask Alexa or Siri, but we don't always think about just how much AI is shaped by existing information and the limitations of the people who build it. On this week's episode of the lean And podcast Tilted, they talked to experts from M I, T, and Cornell to understand how AI leads to unfair decision making and contributes to bias, and what we can do about it. You won't want

to miss it. Tilted features intimate conversations with some of the world's most powerful women in Hollywood and politics, sports, and business. It's hosted by lean And co founder and president Rachel Thomas, and every week they explored the gender bias that lurks in unexpected places and the impact it has on our everyday lives. Listen and subscribe to Tilted from lean In on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now back to our conversation with

the one and only Martha Stewart. After your release from prison, you did Martha Stewart the Apprentice or the Apprentice Martha Stewart and this office. It was right here in this office. We built their bedrooms, here, their kitchens. The whole thing was the most monstrous production you have ever seen. And Donald Trump was the executive producer of it. Well, yes

one with Mark Barnett. And Mark Burnett promised me when I agreed to do it, that I would fire Donald at the end of my show, that Donald were going to replace him. Yes, and Donald did not want to be replaced by the time president. I know, he maligned my show so badly. He was nasty. Well know, who knows why he wanted he wanted to stay on TV. He had he had, you know, he drank the kool aid and he loved it so much. I show did really well in Europe, and it did really well in Japan.

But um, but the ratings in America were not as good as Donald's ratings. But I was as outrageous as Donald either. I think people like outrage and um, as you know, after this whole year, um and so so. But he but we remained uh on some semi cordial And what did you learn about him from working with him? Well, he had very little to do with my show. What did you learn about him from what he said about

you around? I was not happy. And my daughter. He said nasty things about my daughter and she was on the radio at the time he was, and she was on The Apprentice for a little bit and I did not like that, and none of us did, and it was not nice. I would never say anything untoward of his about his children. You don't talk about people's children, but he does. How do you think he's doing as president? Do we have to really get there? I was not. I was not. I'm not happy at the state of

things at all. You were a big Hillary Clinton supporter. And I saw her in the histtempt and she was walking on Loui Pan Lane the other day, really, and I was walking my dogs and she I bumped into. I saw the black van's first and I thought, oh God, who's coming? And it was Hillary. She know she was with a friend, Liz Robbins, and we talked for quite a while standing there in the middle of the street, and uh, and she looked well and she me her

book was just about to be released. It was right, I guess it was a week before her book came out, and um, so I haven't read it. Yet. But um, but she has to speak out, she has to say what she said. And uh, and you know it's a it's too bad. She's really damned if she does. Damned if she does. And I mean I've been, I've been, I guess not surprised, but it's still I'm always taken aback at the vitriol and hatred that is directed at her.

I think people still are not comfortable. Not all, not all people, but many people are still uncomfortable with the notion of a woman in power very much. So. I'm sure you've dealt with that, oh of course. But um but I'm strong enough to sort of brush it off. And when you're running for president, it's pretty hard just to brush it off. Although I probably would have behaved a lot differently than Hillary did on those debate stages, what would you have done? I told him to get lost.

I mean, she she was calling her names and she wasn't calling him names. Call him some names. Really, I don't know her decorum did not she didn't. I don't think people have to be so decorous to ugly people. What's the what's the old line about you get into a mud pit with a pig and the pig is gonna win. Let me ask you the one thing uh many questions we had, Martha, is and I don't think

you've talked about it that much. Is you know. I look at you and everything you've accomplished, and then you had this moment in your life when you were in prison, and I imagine in my mind's eye what that was. I went to Yale for five months. I read a lot, I learned a lot. And what was that like for you mean? Was that sort of like? It was horrifying?

It was horrifying, and no one, no one should have to go through that kind of indignity, really except for murderers, and and you know there are a few other categories, but no one should have to go through that. It's a very very awful thing. Having said that, I mean, was it a growth experience in any way? I know that you would read out to a lot of the other women, you can make lemons out of lemonade, and what what what hurts you makes you stronger? No, none

of those adages fit at all. It's a horrible experience. Nothing is good about it. Nothing was so horrible about it, being taken away from your family, being maligned, being treated the way you were treated. It's horrible, um, and especially when one does not feel one deserves such a thing. I mean, I was not a bad person. Well, I think a lot of people are under the misconception that you were convicted of insider trading. You were, you were not.

I wasn't even accused of insider trading. But I don't want to get into that either. I mean, it's just like like, And one thing I do not ever want is to be identified or I don't want that to be the major thing of my life. It's just not it's just not fair. But um, but it's not a good experience and it doesn't make you stronger. I was a strong person to start with, and thank Heavens, I was, and I can still hold my head up high and know that I'm fine. Did you get to know any

of your fellow inmates and what was that like? I know you helped them with certain things, and did you become friendly with them? Um? No, I'm not really friendly. I wouldn't say that. As much as I've tried. I've tried to help certain of them. Um. There are lots and lots of odd stories and disturbing things that go on in a in a incarceration like that, even a minimum security, well you couldn't walk in minimum security. Still

couldn't walk out the gate, you know, across the river. Um, it was Um, they're still guards and they're still it's still nasty and it's still but but that's that's America has so many people in prison. You go to Finland and there's about I think there's like a hundred people in prison in Finland or some tiny number. Uh. They don't believe in in that kind of incarceration. Uh, And I don't think we should have the numbers of people

in prison. And the most of the women that were in this in this institution were there because of the New York state drug laws. And now we have legalized marijuana in seven states. I think it is Uh, that's incredible. And those and people who had a few ounces of marijuana on them and are in there for twenty years, it just doesn't make sense to some of those people get to be released as as a result. I know that there was a movement with President Obama to change

sort of minimum mandatory. Not much was done, not not enough was done. So on a happier note, you've had this friendship with Snoop Dogg. But I think his uh surprised and delighted some of your some of your fans more just surprised others of your people. People seem to really like our public dinner party. Yeah, no, there of course there's a double. I was drink sarcastic. That was my name. I came up with that name. He did

just very how you get to know each other. The green we had, the green meal, We had all kinds of stuff, funny names. Well, he was on my show a couple of times, and he was always just a pleasant guest and fun and made people and and the response was always good. Did you get a contact high from the green room after he came not in New York? He didn't. He didn't partaken and anything. He was on my my show once and honestly, I opened the door and it was like one of those cartoons where this

smoke just billowed down. I think, I think, I don't. I think that's probably why he doesn't come to New York very much, because he's not free to just that's true. This was in California. Oh, no, California. Oh and then um and then you go to then um we did the Justin Bieber roast together and that was that, which is hilarious for anybody. It was. It was hilarious. And there I did get a contact high sitting next to him for four hours on the stage. Oh you couldn't

help it. I mean he had these you know, he was smoking for four hours right next to us. Oh yeah, soun doing the show with him. Yeah, it really is fun and it's um I call it a melding of cultures. I mean, here's Compton and Nutley probably not so probably not so different. Way down under. I met his mother. He brought his mother to the show. She's a lovely lady, very intelligent, very well spoken. He had other family members there.

I mean, it's it's kind of an interesting situation. And then we have these great guests and we cook and he's a fun cook. He and he is his uncle Rio, who is this jovial, very fancily dressed on gentlemen who wears very jazzy clothes, you know, spats and gold suits and whatever and hats and anyway, Uncle Rio kind of creates all the recipes for Snoop and my my straight laced team of Thomas, Joseph and uh and the rest of the kitchen here, they're they're all like but it's fun.

I mean, it's fun. I think what's so great about you? You you're always reinventing yourself. You're always Change is good. That's one of my mottos. Change is good. And when you're through changing, you're through in my book. So and you've done that, You've changed, You've changed so nicely and evolved. And I've tried. But you do, you do, You're you're You're prettier now than you were when I first met you, by the way, And I think it's because I had such a fat face when I was younger, and aging

makes you kind of hollow out a little bit. But I had enough excess that I don't look on You're not now look normal, right, you look great? And so I think all of that is uh is good and um and it's been it's been interesting to also challenge myself. I mean, it's hard to go on stage with Jamie Foxx and um Puff Daddy or PGD or whatever his name is now and uh us sure and all those guys and and uh a little YACHTI And it's extraordinary the talent that comes on our show really amazing tallenge. Yeah,

that's fun. And meanwhile, Um, as a business person, I'm curious, as a hugely successful woman in business, what do you think are the most important lessons you've learned along the way, Because I don't know. I'm at the point in my career that I want to mentor more young women and

so what would you tell them? Well, it's um, it's all about having ideas, having energy to grow those ideas into something UM, and having the wherewithal, whether it be personal or borrowed or education, to build something of lasting value. And I think just my library books is of lasting value. Many of the other things that I've done also I think will have a lasting value. Building a brand is interesting, but it's unless it's a really good brand and has

a wide audience. Uh. What the heck. I'm not a Bill Gates. I didn't I didn't invent software. I wish I had. But in the meantime, I utilize what's available and and learning how to use what's new and different has made a big difference in my business. And I think learning you know, when I started my business, the internet was a baby, uh, and but I had a computer.

I learned how to use that computer. I learned how to to to write and and uh and use the internet to do research, to do all of the things. Now social media is another challenge for all of us. How do we how do we maneuver and uh and uh and negotiate social media to make a difference without wasting a tremendous amount of time doing so. So a lot of always opened to open to new ideas and to and to I was I'm one of the early adopters of the computer. Believe it or not. I mean,

isn't that crazy? But I am. And two, I got my first computer. When did you get your computer? Are you born yet? I was when I was just born. When did I get my first computer? I think it was in the late eighties at some point. I got my drink in the early nineties. Well when I oh, no, yeah, I think in the early or even late eighties. When I was broadcasting, wasn't using computers in we We were the first magazine to design on an Apple. And that's

why I wanted you. I wanted to make sure that we were doing it in the new and different way. It was no cutting and pasting on big tables. So it's a it's that so making use of what's available currently avail was very important to me. My dad used to say that you really had to stay on top of this ever changing world. And I think now more than ever, it's a good thing. As you would say. Martha, by the way, do you remember when I gave you

the Matrix Award? So I you know, I worked so hard on this poem and I have to just repeat the first in communications, and Martha was, of course so deserving. I remembered. I was terrified because the Dais was full of very impressive women that year. Of course you and then what BEI Goldberg? And I think Amy tan and and Richards and all these people, but I was what went before me, and I was like, oh, I'm I'm screwed because she's so funny and relax acts and I

was a nervous wreck. But I had worked really hard on a poem for Martha and it went like this, Martha, Dear Martha, what should I do? These people have asked me to introduce you. I haven't eaten, I haven't slept. Talk about making a girl fill in at anything I can do? You can do better dipping a candle, knitting a sweater. A room needs repainting, you'll make it, saying with Robin's egg blue because it's a good thing. And only a woman who's in your position makes a gingerbread house.

This air condition tartar ta, Marzi pad coco, vant to bruschetta panchetta is not all you can do. Your holiday meals are a feast for the eyes. Why can't you use stovetop and Mrs Niss pies? Anyway, went on and on anyway, why hard? Well, you know what I think what. I worked so hard on this and it was so much fun to do, and I was so honored to be asked to present it to you. Um. So that's one of my my favorite poems because my dad said I write. My dad used to say I write a girl,

not poetry. Um. By the way, before we go, we have a listener voicemail question. We have a listener who called in with a question for Martha. Okay, I am calling from St. Pete, Florida, where I'm reading Martha Stewart Living by the Light of a Lantern because I'm still without power. But I've always been curious about whether or not Martha Stewart has ever done something she shouldn't have done like stood up on a chair instead of a ladder, or didn't we have the safety glasses she was supposed

to do. She's trying to us all how to do things right, But I'm just wondering about where she's made some goofs that taught her a lesson. Well, but oh my gosh, that's a good one. That's your biggest screw up. My biggest screw up was riding under the branch of a tree on my giant horse and getting knocked off because I thought I could bend backwards under it. That was a stupid thing because then I broke my arm.

But were there any other things where? Well, now, when she says standing on a chair and set of ladder, um, I would never do that because I have taught everyone. I mean, you know, as as an employer of people, you have to teach good lessons. So I'm very strict about having a ladder available in most places, so that if you have to reach a high shelf, you step on a ladder. Um in the garden there they must

wear their ear muffs when they're using loud machinery. Uh, they have to have safety lessons for chain saws because I know how I know how to use chain sauce. I mean, I really do practice good healthy living well or either that or your control free. No, no, no, I practice safety for safety. Well, no I'm not. I mean, I'm not a nut nudge about it, but I'm serious about it. But you're so um, You're so good at everything.

It's And I gave a big gift to the emergency room both in Westport and in and in Mount Kisco, just in case, just in case. They're they're always taken care of. But what is the biggest Have you ever screwed something up terribly? Please tell me you have? Like, what is the biggest thing? You messed my marriage by being a caterer? Really? Probably? Do you know? I think about thinking that I was attractive enough or something like that.

I I see you at some social events, are passed across on a number of occasions, and you never remarried. I have not, Um are you? Are you sorry? I could have married the next guy or the next guy, but I didn't. I'm not. I'm not unhappy about that. I don't. And now when I see some of my friends with her husbands, and I'm so happy that are they are they unhappy and that makes you happy that you're not unhappy? Or do you just feel like who

needs it out? None of the above. When Mr Wright comes along, I'll Maria, are you still open to dating? How do you have some of my branch women? You are and you're beautiful? How does somebody do you go to match? Do you go on match dot com? Or I think you went on for today's show. Can you imagine the algorithm just doesn't fit me, It doesn't know. Maybe you could go on Farmers dot com. Maybe that might be a match made in heaven, Martha. They could help you with your card my farm. I don't I

don't want I want I want them. I don't want them to help me with my farm. I want not going to be hoping on Farmers dot com. That sorry O'Brien to talk about your new cookbook before we go, because it's your eighty nine Martha Cooker. We laugh because in the intro you said you'd never really used a slow cooker before, but you knew that they were really popular and they are now. Isn't this what people used to call a crock pot? Yeah, this is the evolution of a croc pot and um, and it is so good.

The food is so delicious. And this book we we set out with no holds barred and no preconceptions, because it's not just dump a bunch of meat and vegetables in a pot and add some water and turn it on like cream and mushroom soup. No, no, it isn't any of that. So you can make savory, you can make sweet, you can make cinnamon buns, you can make apple crisp, and made apple crisp from start. Some of that. Our producer Gianna is standing next to the everything. I

don't think, Brian, I don't know. No, I'm not coming it now. It's okay. You can share it with me, yea. Anyway, so you had did you have fun making this? This cookbook as usual? So much fun. I mean, I'm excited because I have to walk a few miles a day back and forth from the kitchens here. This is a block long and long block, eleventh to the twelfth avenue. But to eat all this food here, give that to Katie's apple crisp. And I just picked an apple for

something to do with my Brian, take a taste. Okay, that is so good and it's the apples. See fresh apples. The apples are delicious. You guys have some too. There's a whole crocutch after the cranberries in it. As. This is the best interview we've ever done. I know, I know this, and no one else made us. Uh these really delicious crampled eggs that were so slowly with truffle butter and a brioche toast. Yeah. When I brought my house in East Hampton, I know what had still had

the barefoot canto as the shop in town. And we became friends and I started her TV show. Did you know that? I imagine she said that you were. She forgot that I started her television. Actually, I think she did mention that. Martha. She said that you wrote the introduction to her first cookbook and you were enormously helpful to her. So we have a lightning round. Okay, Yeah, but I was going to ask Martha about what IMUS said, how she couldn't understand if somebody who didn't cook why

they would watch her show. But Brian and I were saying, we love to watch cooking shows because even if we're not cooking, whatever is being made, you learn and they're so relaxing there's something that they're kind of hypnotic in a way. Eat. Yeah, you get hungry? These apples are They are delicious? This whole thing is super yummy. All right, well I eat, Brian. Why don't you start the lightning round car. You're making a simple dinner at home just

for you? What are you cooking? Well? Because I have so many eggs, Um, I will oftentimes make something out of the eggs. But I will also just bake a fresh potato that's just freshly dug. I love baked potatoes and um um, just just butter and sour cream or crime fresh so good um, and lots of chopped herbs. Um. I will um cook a whole head of cauliflour or broccoli because I love that too. I'm healthy. Yeah. And

what do you put on the cauliflower or Broncoli? Oh, just cooking and salted water, heavily salted water, and maybe a dab of butter. Are there any recipes you hate making? Anything? You hate cooking? I won't do it. Why why many food? You hate brains? I won't eat brains. I don't that's wait. Breads are destines. They're finest glance or something I don't know. They're nasty, that's all. I have to say that. In shad Row, which my dad used to I know, but the eggs are so big and it's in this millions

of little eggs inside the sacks. You're eating the sack of eggs. Okay, what's your biggest strength and your biggest weakness? Um? I think my biggest strength is my curiosity, and probably my biggest weakness is also my career because you want to do too many things. Yeah? Probably? Um. Do you think marijuana should be legal? Um? Yeah, I think so. I think so, but I worry about but it should be controlled by parents because I just think that, you know,

there's too much in Denver. I'm understanding that that school children are are partaking too much and it's hurting their studies. I don't. I don't like anything that interferes with growing up in a healthy, vibrant and iron men. I agree. I feel like you don't. Why do you? I mean, I understand would all train drugs, but you know, because what does the child need that for? I don't understand having sort of this artificial Why worry about all the

prescription drugs that kids are getting in school? As well like little in adderall and all of that. Anyway, we have a listener question that's very quick, the longest podcast I ever did, the math Stewart. What is the best way to cook pork chops? I want to know? Thank you? Um, well,

I think pork chops should be. Um, you could bread them if you want, but I just I just dredge them in in a salty, peppery flower and then I just cook them lightly in a little olive oil and a little bit of butter until they are pretty much done, and then I squeeze fresh oranges over them and let the juices sort of caramelize. They're the because it's hard to make a juicy pork shop. Yeah, but that's that's the best way to something my mom was never able

to do. I'll tell you that. Don't broil them, yeah, because they get dried out. What's your favorite thing to do with your grandkids? Oh? Explore? I mean these kids are such explorers. So how old now Martha five and six? But they are great travelers. And we went to the Galapagos already, we bunch of Botswana, We go to Maine. They're climbing rock walls now. Um, they the boys, a girl and a boy. Girl and a boy, and they're they're very very fun to be with. And how's your daughter?

Alexis is great, she's a very good mother. And these children are the result of close attention. Now we talked about reinventing. So as we bring this to a close, what would you like to do, Martha that you haven't done yet? Like, would you like to be in Martha the Musical? I mean actually like to do that. Actually, no, actually that would be a music. Um, I'm wanna be uh yeah, I have I have some business kind of

things to give us a little hint. Well, I've been working on an organizer for for the homemaker and I'm going to build that. Always fun to see what Martha does next. Mary, thank you. That was really yummy. If you're going to produce for sure, well that was very delicious. And your new cookbook is called slow Cooker, and I'm excited to have one. And I guess I'm gonna have to buy a slow cooker now. Thank you, Martha, thank you Katie. Thank you brilliant, and I'm glad you came

to my office. Thank you for having us, and thank you for making apple cider and Apple, Chris the Cappuccino. A big thanksgiving thank you to Gianna Palmer and Emily Beena, who produced the original version of this interview with Martha. Emma Morgenstern as our producer, Nor Richie is the associate producer,

and Jared O'Connell is our audio engineer. Now I don't have quite the staff that Martha has, but I do have a lot of great people I work with, including Beth Demas, my tireless assistant, and Julia Lewis, who helps me make my social media much more entertaining. Jared Arnold composed our theme music. I'm on Twitter at Goldsmith b and Katie is everywhere everywhere on the social media stratosphere as Katie Kirk. If you have questions or comments for us,

please call and leave us a voicemail. The number is nine to nine, two to four, four six three seven. We'll be back next week with a very exciting episode. Hugh Jackman come to Mama. Matt buy and Jay Carson two of my other favorite people. They'll all be talking about their new movie. Did that sound sincere? I do really like Matt and j I'm not kidding, all kidding aside I think they're both great and super smart. But they're all going to be here to talk about this

new movie called The front Runner. And Brian, as you know, this in many ways illustrates the moment when the media decided that it was fair game to talk about the personal lives of presidential candidates, and this candidate, of course, with Senator Gary Hart back in seven. We hope you listen. We really enjoyed talking to the three of them. Okay, they were great, So we'll talk to you all next time, and hope you have a great Thanksgiving Stitcher, what else

is going on? Brian, um do a little words with friends. Get me warmed up? Hello, Dead Beats, It's Gabby. Gabby Done, host of Bad with Money. I had the Bad with Money book come out in January. I'm super stoked for season four. This season, we're going back to our roots and I'm having long conversations with amazing people and getting the big picture about money and the economy. Do you like intersectional, queer, social justice based money podcasts? This is

the only one, so get into it. Did you earn it? You deserve to be like a billionaire when somebody who's working as a janitor or working in Walmart. Or teacher or a teacher, yeah, certainly, or a teacher who may be working just as many hours as you, may be just as smart as you like. Does that make it okay that you have so much? I get paid once a month, so my my check accounts huge. It's like a tidal wave comes in and then on the second it's empty again. Oh my god, speaking my language. Bad

with Money is back now for season four. Listen in Stitch, your Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.