Larry Wilmore: Ace of Comedy

anti Jew, anti Muslim incidents. We're definitely seeing a lot of turmoil across the country. You know, on the left, there have been mass protests in big blue cities like New York, Chicago and l a um Online anonymous users have risen on Twitter to sort of condemn both sides. It's a it's a very angry time in the country. That's something we really want to start with. As we introduced today's guest, Larry Wilmore. Many people know Larry from

The Nightly Show. He replaced Stephen Colbert when Steven replaced David Letterman. Oh, of course you probably remember him from The Daily Show as well. But he's been behind the scenes of a number of very iconic shows through the years and We can't wait to hear about that as well. Larry Wilmore, it's so nice to see you. Thank you so much for coming my pleasure, Katie, thank you for having me. First. Larry, we want to talk to you

about our good friend Gwen Eiffel. We got some terrible news just really moments ago, and you were looking at your phone and asking me about it when I walked in to the building, and in fact, it was about Gwen Eiffel passing away, which is so shocking. I had known that she was sick and had been going through treatment for cancer, but I did not obviously have any idea that she was this ill. And UM, tell me about your experience with when well, it's funny. UM, I

was always a big fan of hers. You know, I'm one of those Uh, I'm one of the people who is in your demo. I love news, you know, and I've loved since I was a kid, and and I love the fact that Amazon PBS and you know, and she was one of the faces of PBS. She was so gracious, so intelligent, you know, and the things that she had to say. Um, so I'm just kind of devastated right now. It just kind of hit me at

just all at once, you know she. Um. I've gotten to know Gwen through the years, just covering various things, and she was quite involved in the Aspen Ideas festivals and was such an incredible presence. She was strong and reasonable and fair minded and calm. Gwen has just been such a steady force and an unbelievably kind, carrying, sweet person. And uh, it's just crushing, Brian. Did you know Gwen

at all? I did. Actually, I first met her as a nerdy politics geek at the Institute of Politics at Harvard, where she was pretty involved. Um. I was obviously a huge admirer of her work. We stayed in touch a little over the years, and in fact I saw her this summer at one of the conventions and she gave me a big hug and said why did they allow you in here? And was very sweet and teased me, and um. She was also a great kind of utility

player in journalism. You know she was, if I remember correctly, she was a writer for the New York Times before she was before she went to television, and and excelled at at both, which is a rare and hard thing to do. Um. I think she was a universally respected figure and a universally liked figure. Um, so it's this is a really uh sad loss for journalism in the country. Yeah. Well, Um, our thoughts and prayers are with her family and all our colleagues at PBS, and uh, you know, I think

we can only feel grateful for the contributions that she made. Anyway, let's move on to something more cheerful or not, Larry. Um, you know, it's been a it's been a very um gosh, I don't know, uh, strange and unsettling week in American life. And I think the division is so raw and I think more palpable than ever in the aftermath of this campaign and in the election of Donald Trump is our next president. Um, let's go back to election night. Were

you shocked? What did you think going into the evening? Well, yeah, definitely was shocked. Um. You know, I kind of watched election I kind of like a sporting event, you know. Um, I'm looking at it as two sides going against each other,

because it's really there's really a third side. I Mean, there was a chance of Ross Barrow doing something in ninety two, but that was the last time anybody really might do something interesting, you know, So I, like everyone was interested to see how close Trump would make it. That's how much I believe that, you know, it was a faith to complete that Hillary would be the next president, you know. Um And watching Florida, I was like very

fascinated by the returns in Florida. It's something that John kings and In does well, is he really goes into all the counties and how the ratings are coming through the countings with his magic board. I always make fun of that magic board because CNN always stays, you know, cable entertainment news, you know, see end, That's what I call it. But but I'm so happy he had that magic wall because you really you can really in real

time understand what's going on. And in real time you could see how those counties were overwhelmingly coming out, those red counties for Trump. When that happened, I thought, Okay, anything can happen tonight. Anything. So Florida was your big key that all bets were off. Yes, And I was going around all the networks and just watching reactions and

Fox News Funny, they started off really sad. It was kind of interesting, and the other networks it was kind of this it was almost a smugness, especially when you look at it now. You know, to your point, Larry, Florida really was the canary in the coal melt mine, and it was a microcosm of how the election unfolded

in so many ways across the country. You had Hillary doing what she was supposed to do in the democratic parts of the state, maybe turnout was a little off of where Obama was four years ago, but in more rural parts of Florida, where she was expected to lose by twenty points, she was losing by thirty and thirty five points, and with enormous turnout among Trump supporters. And so that was shocking for a lot of us who just smuggly assumed, based on the data that she was

going to prevail. Yes, Hillary hadn't countant on white being the new black. She had that, and that's what it showed us. I mean, I remember Browerick County. They were waiting on it, and you thought, this gush of you know, black votes is it going to come in? And they're like, okay, that's it, and I'm like, that's it. It's okay, alright, Florida, Well, why you know, gosh, there's so much to unpack here. Um, when was the moment that you all felt like party over,

game over, Mike drop, it's over. Pennsylvania was the one for me because that's been untouchable for so long. You know what about for you, Brian, when was that moment you thought it's that it's over. Well, for me, it was one it looked likely that she would lose Miss Chigan. That was truly shocking because Michigan last went for a Republican in when George H. W. Bush was running. And is it true that Wisconsin had not voted Republican since ur Yes, So that was a real shocker thirty two

years since Wisconsin supported a Republican for president. That was during Ronald Reagan's forty nine state sweep. Let's talk about sort of the white working class voters. You know, someone was talking to me yesterday and saying, you know, you don't realize how patronizing and superior it sounds to always refer to this voting block as non college educated, blue

collar working class, etcetera. That that sort of in and of itself sets up this US against them mentality of the quote unquote more educated Americans, white collar workers, and and pits these two groups against each other. What do you guys think of that? I thought that was an

interesting observation. Yeah, it is interesting, I think that. I think for me, I feel like the left has had kind of the moral high ground on on the social issues, but unfortunately it may have given them a smugness on economic issues, you know, in kind of a false sense of being right on all the issues, you know, and so I think they forgot about what, you know, in the nineties were called the Clintons. They were the Abubba Democrats and the Bubba vote, you know, that were so

loyal to Bill Clinton. And I think a lot of people forgot about those Republicans as well. I think had forgotten about a lot of them because they were so interested and on the religious side of the of the issues, you know, especially with the borsho and some of those issues, and so both sides were so interested in the cultural side. It was Bernie Sanders and ironically Trump who talked about

these issues in ways that really connected with people. You know, I had said to Briant through the course of this campaign, why is in Hillary Clinton talking more about income inequality? Why isn't she talking more about jobs, about the loss of manufacturing jobs largely through automation. As we've reminded our listeners here many times, it seems like like such a duh captain obvious thing to say, why why didn't she do that? In your view, I don't know, Brian, do

you have any views on that? Well? Bill Clinton was sort of dismissed with a condescending pat on the head and said, well, you know that that was then, this is now. Yeah, the future of the Democratic Party is this coalition of the ascendant young people, college educated whites, uh and minorities. And in fact, depending on how you calculated about of the electorate is still white working class people.

And it just seed that group and lose by thirty or forty points in some places, makes it very very hard to win for a Democrat. At a candidate, you basically have to run the table everywhere else. Now, Clinton strategists will tell you that the economic argument was sort of at the core of her message, that in every speech she said an economy that works for everyone, not just those at the top um. But what but what got media attention was just the conflict with with Donald Trump.

And so you have a lot of people outside the campaign who said, you know, they should have done a lot more. They should have they should have visited some of these places. Hillary Clinton wasn't even in Wisconsin for seven months before election day. And of course within the Clinton campaign, their view was, you know, we reached them through advertising, through other events, and the press didn't cover her policy ideas and speeches. They just covered us when

we bashed Donald Trump. To me, that my biggest frustration with Hillary Clinton, who I supported and voted for, was was the empathy quotient. It didn't feel like she had that empathy part of the equation, you know, whereas Trump, if you look at his rallies, people were there excited because they felt they were heard finally that somebody heard them and someone was listening. And whether or not you

grew with the message, that connection is very powerful. And if you just look at their message itself, just a simple message, Trump, make America great again? Right, Very aspirational, very inspirational for people that believe that it's an idea. Hillary, I'm with her, are Stronger together. Yeah, it's more esoteric.

I'm just gonna ask you, Larry. You know, it's so interesting to me as we kind of pick through these exit polls because they're really kind of a reflection, uh even a rough one of of where the American people are. And they showed that a majority of voters approved of President Obama's job performance, they opposed some of Donald Trump's key policy ideas like the wall and mass deportations, and and they viewed Hillary Clinton more favorably than Donald Trump.

So why do you think, um, even though he lost the popular Trump was able to prevail on this election. UM. I do feel that many times we get the president we deserve, not the president we underneed. And I feel a lot of the electorate is more superficial than people give them credit for. And that's not always a bad thing. Sometimes it works out well. But I think the toughest hurdle the Clintons were always going to face is coming back to the neighborhood. You know, they're already out of

the neighborhood. You're coming back. You wait, you're moving back into this house. We know you already. There's nothing new. America likes a new family, you know they as I mean, President Obama said this in twelve He said, Americans like that new car smell. That's what he when he was worried about losing around. But He's right. People do like that. They they they like getting to know the new family in the White House. They already know about the Clintons.

One of the toughest hurdles that they had to overcome was familiarity. Yes, we know that breeds contempt, you know. So you know, if you just look at cult of personality, we're also in a very narcissistic you know, reality show age. And boy, there's no other better example of that than Donald Trump. That's the world that we kind of live in. And Trump wrote a lot of different waves into the White House, not just one. And the thing about Obama, I think more people approve of Obama than approve of

his record as president. I think there's a distinction there. I think more people view him favorably as Barack Obama, you know, singing al Green and you know, and being he has an amazing personality, much like Reagan. But if you look at his job performance, I think those numbers are lower in terms of people being satisfied with with the actual job that's happened over the past seage. Also, I think if you look at right track, run track, Brian and I talked about that and he said these

numbers really don't facilate that much. Having said that, I think if you just look at some of the things that are barometers of how people are doing. You look at heroin addiction, you look at suicide, you look at unemployment, and all those things are disproportionately affecting white men fifty

and over. And I think the chickens came home to roost in this election where suddenly they said, this is someone who listens to us and cares about our issues in a way that no other candidate really seemed to. And so you can understand why they said, we're going to make our situations and known and our presence felt in this campaign. Yeah, and it is significant that he didn't just beat Hillary Clinton, he beat the Republican establishment

as well. I mean Trump did beat both sides. You know, he was more of an independent candidate running as a Republican. Why do you think that black and Latino voters didn't weren't more enthusiastic about Hillary Clinton. I always predicted there was going to be this enthusiasm gap. You just have to look at the rallies. Right. Well, I believe it's a false comparison. I think, um, you can't compare Hillary Clinton to Barack Obama, who is an historical candidate. You know,

we've never had a candidate like that. So there were those numbers for Obama You're not going to see for anyone else. I guess I was saying an enthusiasm gap between Donald Trump's supporters and Hillary clinton supporters. But yeah, yeah, well yeah, So that to me is about her messaging. I think it's very clinical, it's very antiseptic. There's nothing inspiring for certain groups to come out and vote for something. They were being more choral to vote against something, and

cynical campaigns. To me, I call that a cynical campaign when you're voting against something, UM, to me, are always harder to win them positive campaigns, you know, I also think that. I mean again, I'm not a campaign expert or a political strategist by any stretch, but I've covered enough elections to know that her campaign to me, seemed exceedingly cautious, careful and controlled. Um. She didn't get out

in front of the pressure. You know, she is actually a very engaging, warm, funny person because I've covered her since the early nineties when she was first Lady. But I think there was such a fear of getting her out there, and I think as a result, Donald Trump sucked all the oxygen out of the room. And you never actually felt like you knew her as a person.

She seemed, as you said, an aseptic. And the fact of the matter is anyone who's spent any time with her, or knows her a little bit, or has had a conversation with her, or seeing her in an unguarded moment, she really isn't like that. You look at her two most effective times as candidate, once in two thousand and eight, when she cried in New Hampshire or whatever that was she let to her guards, I'll call it, and her

concession speech. For this, to me, she was she was more revealed as a person rather than presented as a candidate. And it's well said, yes, And the thing that Hillary did not do enough of, in my mind, was revealed herself as a person, because there were so many things that were said about her, and you know how how the media can make up who we think someone is.

You know, all I could think of was they were so concerned about a misstep and that getting focused on and blown out of proportion that they didn't allow her to be herself. Well, we're going to take a quick break. Here some messages from our sponsors and from you all, and we're going to have more with Larry Wilmore, the Man, the Legend. Right after this last week we asked you all for your greatest hopes and fears for a Trump presidency.

You left us so many great voicemails, and here's the sampling. Hi, Katie, my name is Ellie. I'm calling from Brooklyn, New York. I just wanted to respond said, what is your biggest hope or biggest share a boy tru president? But one of my biggest hopes is that he'll turn me that he will turn the kind year round and we'll see more jobs coming back to America. We'll see more economic growth,

and we will see general prosperity. One of my biggest fears. Um, well, I have to tell you I have a lot of friends in the LGBT community and I'm afraid that him, our Governor Pence, might roll back the lgbt Q right and I really really don't want to do that. If they don't have a lot of times are going to be affected by that. Have a going thinks. Hi, this is Peggy, my hope for the Trump presidency is that he will prove to be a moderate someone who will

focus on infrastructure and improvements like that. My greatest fear is that he will be an insane autocrat. Thanks Hi Brian, Hi, Katie Um. My biggest hope for the Trump presidency is that he's able to comprehend the awesome responsibility he has been handed and that he is somehow able to transform himself into a person that can now inspire in the country. I'm willing, like a lot of people, I think, to

give him a chance. So my biggest fear is that he will continue to be petty and vindictive and dragging us all into a world of conspiracies and corruption, sort of like the House of Cards. Uh. Hi Katie, Hi, Brian Um. My name is Kate. I am in Michigan. I think my biggest hope is that people don't forget the feelings they feel right now following the election, but they stay hungry, they stay motivated, um, and they stay involved.

My biggest fear is that young people like my generation will stop being involved, that they'll feel like they don't have a role or a voice. Thanks guys for our next listener question. We'd love to hear from some of our Republican listeners. We know you're out there. What do you think is the future of the GOP. We want to hear your thoughts about Donald Trump, about the party itself, about the establishment wing of the party, about this new kind of GOP ushered in by this era of Donald Trump.

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investigator is still on the job. You'll even hear the voice of an alleged killer whose confession raised more questions than it answered. That's a pretty good tease. You can subscribe to Stranglers in iTunes, Stitcher, or Google Play and stay tuned at the end of this episode to hear a special sneak preview. Oh I will We're back with Larry Wilmore. Gosh, you know enough about Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Let's talk about you, Larry. So you you're You're.

You became very well known on the Daily Show, and then you started hosting your own show on Comedy Central. How did you get into comedy, Larry? How do you get into comedy? I always tell people I'm one of those people. I didn't really get into comedy. I kind of went into show biz. I could get comedy out of me, you know. Yeah, I was lucky. There's a thing called showbiz, right, do that? I mean, if I

worked at a bank, I'd still be telling jokes. I just wouldn't be getting paid for it and probably wouldn't last that long, you know. So I've always looked at showbiz as a way to comedy is kind of my expression. So whether I'm writing or producing or performing, you know, or whatever it is, I'm getting that comic expression out. So you But so you worked on all these shows. I know you worked on the Fresh principle there. Did you know my friend Andy Borrowitz? You know, I have

funny story about Andy Boris. I love Andy Borrowitz, great guy. Here's this very interesting and Andy so my very first gig, as you will, one of my first gigs. This is in the early eighties. I was on the Facts of Life and I was a cop for a couple of episodes. It's like, you know, it's so bizarre. Uh. And my name was Officer Zakus. Okay, so you were a Greek Greek. You know, there's a lot of brothers the acus Is out there that people don't give enough credit for. So

the person who wrote that episode was Andy Borrowitz. I didn't know this. Years later, I was serving on the Border Directors I think of the Writer's Guild at the time, and somebody mentioned Zakus. I think, I go Zakus. That was the name of a character. So really, that's a friend of mine, a friend of yours, and this star all started on raveling that this was a friend of

Andy Borrowitz, who somehow like he knew Andy bros. And somehow we got him on the phone and I talked to Zakus or something like that, and it was this weird connection that was made. And I got to meet Andy after that and we talked about it. But when I worked on Fresh Prints, he was already gone. He was gone because he create. Didn't he create the Fresh Prince? He and Susan created a Fresh Prince along with that. Think Benny Medina who I think it was based on

something like that. And you also worked on Living Color? Is it in Living Color? And Color is the band? Yeah? Yeah, it was in Living Color, which is another show I loved. I have such a crush on the way and brothers. They're still around about I like, I think it's um Damon. Damon is know he's on leath the weapon right now. I think that's the one. They're all kind of the tall skinning. So the Wayne's family, they're the first ones

to experiment with cloning. They're the first ones to do it successfully actually, and they just put different names on its, same body, same jokes, you know, so did it? No? Well no, I did a couple of guest spots, but I was a stand up in an actor before that point and I realized that I wanted to get into writing and producing the kind of guide my own career, because you know, I just couldn't get the type of

auditions that I went so. I had done like years of standard before that, and in Living Color was my first break as a writer. And it was such an amazing show. I mean, jim Carrey came out of there. Jimmy Fox won an oscar you know, j lost. She was a fly girl on that show. We're dating ourselves, Larry, I'm never dated any of the Flag girls, unfortunately, much to your dismaying so that that must have been so much fun to work on that show. Well, it was fun,

but it was really tough too. I tell people it was the worst of times. It was the worst of times as a writer because you had to work till like five six in the morning. You're exhausted all the time. But you learned everything you wanted to learn about comedy writing on that job. And then you worked for the Bernie mac Show. Well, I created the Burn, actually created it. A writer's distinction there. Well, the first show I created was called The Pj's. It was a show with Eddie Murphy,

was an animated show. And then after that I did the Bernie mac Show, and Bernie Maxwell kind of put me on the map as a as a creator of shows and that type of thing, and you know, we want a lot of awards. I want a Peabody Actually, m m, I know it's double mozzle on that. Then you ended up working on the Jon Stewart obviously on The Daily before that, now before that, actually tell me more.

Actually ran Whoopi Goldberg Show in New York and you actually came by the set once and we actually were like, oh, my goodness, is Katie Kurt's coming by? Remember it was Whoopi Goldberg had a show for NBC back in two thousand three, So did you create that show? A friend of mine it, but I went in to run it. Um after that, I went to the office and helped launch that with Greg Daniels, and I was there for the first couple of seasons and I played a part

called Mr. Brown. It was the Diversity Day episode. It was really funny. Steve Carroll's hilarious in there, and it's funny. Then I thought, well, now is the time to get back into performing. And it was then that the Daily Show came about and I went to do that, and you know, and the rest of history as they say, how much fun was it working on the Daily Show?

It was so much fun. When I started, John Oliver had just started Assume Mombi, John Hodgeman, there was a whole mess of us who were just coming in and U It was fun because we were trying to figure out who we are and all that kind of stuff. I know, I was, you know, and it was it was really really a lot of fun. And how were they able to make it such a fun place to work? Well, here's the thing. It's funny. There's a book that's coming out right now about the Daily Show in the early days,

and it wasn't always like happy, happy family. John John had He took a few years to really make that show his own. It was a different show before he came around, and and John really saw the way that he wanted to make it, and the people who were there, like, I don't think so we kind of do it like that. So there's a lot of tension for a few years there, and as the personnel shifted and the show shifted, it kind of turned into what we know it is now.

But that was kind of a birthing process that wasn't always fun for everyone. I guess, yeah. But but but towards the end, I mean, I guess or through the years. How long was the Daily Show even on? I should know this. I think was created in ninety I think it's been twenty one years. Craig Kilburne was on at the outset, and he was replaced by John Stewart, if I remember correctly, So the Daily Show started at around

the time of Fox Names in MSNBC. Ironically, when I meant to ask you, how do you think, if how do you think, if at all, this campaign would have been different had John Stewart still been in that chair. People love to think that that we actually can make a difference at the ballot box. I don't know if

that's true. I think John would probably would disagree with you vehemently that he would have made any difference at the ballot box, because if that were the case, you know, then all those mid terms would have turned out differently. Let me ask you about the nightly show, you know, tell me what that experience was like for you, Um, some of the pressures you felt. I did a daily syndicated talk show, so in some ways. I think I'm going to feel your pain, Larry, because we can only

relate to each other. And it's really really hard, I think, to do uh super high quality daily show. And um, I'm just curious. What were some of the challenges you found. Well, it was there was a lot of pressure from a lot of different way areas, which I really don't mind. I've worked under pressure for a long time and I feel like sometimes I do my best work under there,

but it is very difficult. And I had the pressure of following Stephen Colbert, who was very beloved in the time slot side time slot pressure, I had pressure of making a show that works, you know, which I don't care. Yes, I don't care where you're at. That's pressure, right, And also the what was interesting about our show there were

two components to it. There was a discussion component that takes a certain amount of preparation and in the beginning we have four guests on every night, which is crazy, and that takes preparation for that discussion, oh my gosh. But before that, there was an edit comic editorial that

also takes brain power every day. How are you going to distill your thoughts about what just happened every single day, having to write a funny column every day and study and know how you're going to relate and interact with all your guests. That's exactly right. So it's a lot of work, Lary, What the hell do you want to do that? I didn't know what it was. My head was ready to explode in the first three months. I really didn't know how it was going to continue. That

it was just too much. And we had to pair the show down a bit where we would have a couple of our regulars and one guest and simplified a bit, and we we we had the show became more about the comedy and the that part of it unless about the discussion. But that happens more in the in the development of a show, you know. But I did enjoy doing both parts of those shows. I really enjoyed it. You wish you could have done it weekly, And you know, like you look at John Oliver and you know he

did a brilliant show. I give him ship all the time. Are you I worked so hard to do and now I'm up to But I bet if you had had that kind of pace for your show, um, you could have really probably taken these big issues. Had had a lot of fun with your comedy because the daily grind must have been the pits. It is tough, although I will say, you do get to comment on a lot of things you probably wouldn't be able to comment on otherwise.

So they have a frustration that they don't get to comment on everything because once again now they're reduced to that twenty three minutes weekly, right, and they usually do a single topic exactly. So if you think about in a month, they've only weighed in on four separate things, whereas in a month I've done twenty shows, you know, or how long that month happens to be. So you know, you do get to weigh in on more things, you get to have more targets you can throw it, but

then you still have to produce that too. So they're pros and co and I think also, you know, for people who watch regularly, they like sort of seeing you every night. People do it becomes a habit. I still get on Twitter people are still like, Larry, we miss you so much, And what they really miss is that they were watching us every night, right, you were habit for me, That's right there you go. I'm like, I'm

like crack, Were you sorry? Were you sorry? It came to an end absolutely, of course, especially for everyone that worked there. But I'm a move on type of person in show biz because I have to, you know, and I've always I always get different ideas, you know, and I'm always working on different project. I have a project at HV right now. You know. Let's talk about your projects, because I mean, you're doing such cool things. And first of all, I love is Array. Oh she's so great.

She was on my my talk show. She was kind of a a online presence, really funny and so yes, um, I kind of introduced her to the country. That's great, Thank you, residual check. I'm kiddy. But she's got a show on HBO called Insecure, and and are you the executive producer? Well, I co created it with her. I was in a transition period, just trying to figure things out. Uh, this is three years ago, and my managers asked me

if I wanted to meet her. She had just tried to do something at ABC with Shonda and it didn't quite work out. But Issa had already done I called. I called, I'm sorry Issa. Yeah, so, but she had done Misadventures of an awkward black girl. She probably talked to you about, right, That's what she was. Yes, it was hilarious and I saw that and I thought, oh my god, who is this person? I thought, this is fantastic. I love the point of view, I love the style

of it. And her acting though, was a revelation to me as someone who's produced for years. I thought the camera was really discovering her, you know, in a way that was revelatory. I love that about her, you know. And so I wanted to collaborate with her, and I was They asked if I wanted to supervise if I said, so, you want to just write together? She was like, yeah, let's do it. And so so the two of you, do you write it together or yeah, you write it together.

We don't write the series together. We we created the pilot together. So we created that together, and then the HBO process is kind of long, so there were several rewrites and they were kind of in a holding pattern, and I decided to go help launch Blackish at the time an ABC. So I worked with Kenya Bears and helped to launch that show, working on the pilot with him. You like Mr Starmaker, Lary, it seems like now, but

it didn't work for me, you know. I mean, is there something which do you prefer or being in front of the camera, behind the camera, a little boat, a little bit of both. Um. I really enjoy the creative process, you know, and figuring it out, making it work. I love introducing, like the world to something is how I do it, and like introducing the world to Issa. I

was so excited about that, you know. Or even when I did the Bernie actually I said, I can't wait for people to see Bernie and see him do this stuff. I was so excited about it. I'm always a little more shy about myself. I think I'm a little more gunshy about me kind of being out there, so I'm less interested in I call it hoggy, being hoggy, you know, me being in front of the camera and all that.

I feel like I do it if it's what I need to do, but it's not the first thing that I feel like I need to do or have to do. But you're having fun right now. It sounds I'm having a lot of Are you doing stand up? Because you did some standard I did. I did it for years and years, you know, and uh, I did a couple of election specials in two thousand and twelve for Showtime called Larry. One was Racial Religion and Sex in Utah was the first one, and then Racial Religion Sex in Florida.

And it was kind of a town hall in different parts of the country and I really enjoy doing that. And the first part was a little stand up eat and then discussion and that kind of thing. So well, that's a good segue to coming back to where we are as a country. Very um, I think we need one of those specials just about now. Well I may be doing some of that. Yeah, some of that again, So well, do you want in New York? Would you be on it? If I didn't know, I want to

be on it. I just want to be in the audience. I'm not You don't understand. America has never fallen out of love with you. They still love you. What are you talking about? Shy? You're doing? You? Look at what is all these shy people? I don't know. I just I don't know. America will never be I'm saying it right now. Well, I don't know. Call my agent learning we'll discuss it. But anyway, but but what are we

going to do as a country. You know, here we've got Steve Bannon, who from bright Bart News as the chief strategist, and that's really upsetting to a lot of people because of the whole rise of the alt right and some of the incredibly inflammatory stuff that's been on bright Bart News. Um, you know, cheez how I don't even know. I don't even know where to begin. What is it about this election? I can't stop talking about it thinking about it. At some point? Am I going

to move on? M not for a while? I don't think so. I don't think so. This is a big one. How can we I don't know, just sort of tamped down the anger and hate on both sides? I know I sound like Rodney King. Can't we all just get along? But I mean, I'm just I'm I'm worried about the country. Um, I'm not as worried. But I also, once again my contrary nature, I'm not as concerned about people expressing their emotions. Maybe I'm just sort of a woos and I just

start getting upset about it. I find it's okay to be upset, you know, and I think it's necessary for us to express those feelings. It's okay. But I think through our through people's outrage sometimes and look, the the people on the right who voted for Trump expressed their outrage in a certain way, and people have heard it, and now it must be dealt with. And so people need to express how they feel about something so it can be dealt with so we can do something about it.

A move hunt and Larry, how much do you see those divisions breaking down along racial lines? I mean, I was really struck when Skip Gates, who's a you know, noted African American professor, said Trump represents a backlash against the progress black people have made since nineteen which of course was the year the Voting Rights Act. Van Jones on CNN said that Trump represents a white lash, a reaction against Obama and changing demographics by white people. Do

you see it in that kind of star complain? I mean, look, in August of two thousand fifteen, I predicted that Trump would win to my staff and they all laughed at me, and we called our coverage of the blacklash beyond blackening was how we said it. You know that that there's an unblackening that's happening. And to me, I just wrote an article for the New Yorker about this, which people can be right now where I I called Trump um the birth of a nation, and uh, that was clever,

thank you, thank you very much. But I linked a lot, a lot of his um de legitimization of the president back to that film and the fact that that film was legitimately screened in the White House like just a correct and said history was just written with lightning, you know. And and he he, the president of the United States, legitimized the de legitimization of the black male that happened in the White House. Trump trying to unamericanize Barack Obama to me is that same thing, you know, trying to

make him de legitimate. And that's why Obama was very upset about it himself. You can see on his face when that stuff was happening. And he enjoyed the takedown of Trump at that White House Correspondence Center. You can

see how much he enjoyed that, you know. And I think he enjoyed it a little too much, because I you know, you look at that video in two thousand eleven, and you think was that the moment Donald Trump said yeah, well just you wait, and and a lot of people who know him and We discussed this on our last podcast. Thought that that speech really catalyzed this sense for him that he had to show not just Obama, but the

whole establishment that mocked him. Well, the one thing, you know, you talked earlier in our conversation about messaging, and I think Donald Trump was incredibly effective at messaging, staying on message, being very discipline. It almost became a mantra, you know, whether it was locker up, Crooked Hillary. I think there's a reason he had those hashtags, you know what it little more Marco and you know what did he say about Jeb Bush? You know, you know, and these things

that he repeated again and again and again. Do you think sometimes it's because he is, you know, reflecting his own vulnerabilities, you know oftentimes I don't know if you're getting very shrinky here. No, but I'll tell you why I disagree with with that assessment, because he's right, you know, so it's not his thing. He was right about Jeb Bush. That's why Jeb was so upset about it. Little Marco did upset Marco Rubio. It did make him mad, you know,

lying Ted did upset Ted Cruz. He really knew and knows how to get people under under. People's exactly right. And the one thing that buried Hillary more than anything else was cricket Hillary. And right before the election, FBI comes down and says, well, we're still looking into this up. He's right, cricket Hillary, and not because necessarily these labels are accurate. I mean, I have a friend who was very question that little actually is well, had a friend

who worked for Jeb Bush. If Trump had Jeb Bush's schedule for a week, he'd be in the hospital. What he meant by low energy was not willing to say the kind of incendiary stuff, not willing to kind of cross the lines that Trump was able to cross. And I think he meant boring. Brian, I disagree. I think he just meant he was well, maybe the we're seeing the same things that he was. He was just boring

because he wasn't. I think we're actually agreeing because he wasn't able to say the exciting stuff that Jeb just didn't believe in our thought was offensive. So in closing, Larry, I could talk to you all day. So this has been really fun. Thank you so much for doing this. What are your greatest hopes and fears for a Trump presidency. That's the same question we've asked our listeners. So, wow,

you give me the oxymorons of oxymorons. Um. Well, you know, it's a really tough one because the things that he wants to accomplish I don't want him to accomplish. You know. Um, I don't think we need to build a wall or band Muslims or those types of things. And you know, the opposition is not in power right now. You know, they have a firm grasp on all the levers of government right now. So I'm just hoping that someone with some sense in there, and and with the more of

an eye on, you know, on the country. I guess UH can talk some sense in the Trump I'm concerned that he hired Steve Bannon as the person in his ear. That really concerns me. You know. I think Ryan's previous, as we said, is very reasonably. I'd rather have Kelly on Conney. I think she was great her her really crowning Trump, which I think it was. She was indispensable

in that campaign. She's very talented. When they hired Kelly Anne, I thought, wow, that that's a really smart I thought it was smart to Yeah, I thought it was really so smartest thing they probably ever did. What do you think she's going to do that? They talked about a job. She said that she has been offered a job in the White House, although she won't say what what it is. Maybe by the time the show comes out will know how big of a Fox News star would she be

right now? Yeah, although Fox is having its own identity, that's a whole different discussion. Yeah, yeah, Brian, what are your biggest hopes and fears for Trump presidency? Uh? My biggest hope is that he can shape up an inefficient, bureaucratic federal government and maybe deliver better customer service for

the American people. Um. My greatest fear is that he's as divisive in office as he was during the campaign, and half of the American people feel not just alienated from the president, but actively scorned and disrespected by the President. And I think that would a profoundly unhealthy thing for

the country. Maybe he can come up with some compromises that will that will address some of the issues that we're so motivating for people at the polls, but do so in a more incrementalist way or in a way that isn't sort of you know, maybe he can use what's the expression set of a meat cleaver? He can

use Uh, I don't know. What would you say, you guys, a scalpel instead and be and perform the surgery that I think most people agree needs to be done with with a little more care and a little more compassion. You're talking about a man who puts his name on places in large gold letters to do something subtly and precisely. A girl can dream, can't she? Larry, thank you so much for coming out. Was really fun to talk to you, and congratulations on all your success and continue. You're welcome.

Thanks Brian, thank you so much for coming on. And as Katie mentioned, for our next listener question, we would love to hear from our conservative listeners, what do you think the future of the Republican Party is. We're curious to hear your thoughts about the party itself, the division between the alt right and the establishment wing, how can the party appeal to Latinos and African Americans? Where does it go from here? So leave us a message at nine to nine, two to four, four, six, three seven.

Thanks as always to Gianna Palmer for producing the show and Jared O'Connell for engineering and mixing it. Thanks to Sam for engineering from l A. Thanks to Mark Phillips for our fantastic theme music. And remember you can always email us at comments at current podcast dot com. You can find Katie and me on social media. I'm at goldsmith B on Twitter, Katie's at Katie Kurrik on Twitter and Instagram, and Katie dot Kirk on Snapchat. Best of all,

you can rate and review us on iTunes. We'd really appreciate it if you would let us know what you think of the show. Don't forget to subscribe to will talk to you next time you take the goods to take the bad? Did it? Did it? Did it? The facts of life? That's amazing that you know I could do. This is Garrett, Oh, this is this is Carrott. Go sound like it