Who will become the Democratic nominee for president will be someone that has been out there and has shown that they won't allow themselves to be punched in the face and just say thank you.
They will punch back. I think that that's what's going to happen. Hi.
Everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question. Texas Representative Jasmine Crockett has only been in Congress since twenty twenty three, but she's quickly become one of the most talked about Democrats in the country. She got into politics to help change an unfair criminal justice system she witnessed as a public defender. Now she's using her growing national platform to challenge the status quo and at times punch back, as we saw during her now famous encounter with Marjorie
Taylor Green. But as you'll hear, her backstory is just as fascinating as her current one. Congresswoman, thank you so much for being here.
Absolutely, it's my pleasure.
We have so much to talk about, so much going on in this crazy world of ours, but I wanted to start by talking about your background.
Yeah. May I call you Jasmine?
Yes, absolutely, because I really enjoyed reading about you. I'm always interested in what has shaped people and how they have become the person they are. And I know you grew up in Saint Louis and your dad was a Baptist preacher. Tell us a little bit about your early years and your childhood.
Yeah, so growing up in Saint Louis, it was a pretty simple life. I mean, you know, definitely compared to being in New York right now, right Like, there wasn't this crazy hustle and bustle. But I had two college educated parents. My mom actually is near genius as far as I'm concerned. She graduated high school at the age of sixteen, skipping ahead and became the salutatorian of the class she skipped into. And then she got a full ride to go to WashU and was done with undergrad
at the age of nineteen. The reason that I say all that is that my parents were really big into education, and so I remember I was going to public school, great public school in my opinion, I mean, it laid the foundation for me to be where I am now. But my grades were too good and so my mom was like, it's not it's not Jane enough, right, And I was like, what is this?
You know why are you guys not proud of me? Right?
Like any other parent is happy because you're top of the class. And for them, it was like, no, it's just not enough. And so they ended up putting me in private school.
So I ended school.
I ended up going to Catholic school. It was interesting because I was just here for the Lion of Lenox Avenue's funeral and we were.
At a Catholic.
And I was like, oh goodness, it's back to being like that Catholic school girl because there was lots of kneeling and standing and all the things. But anyway, so yeah, so they put me in a Catholic middle school, and then my parents decided that it would be great if I went to a Catholic all girl high school. And I was at that age where like, you just don't want me to have a life, and so I ended up at Rosetti. Kane went there for a little bit,
but then my parents divorced. So they divorced right before I turned sixteen, so it was about fifteen years old.
And it was that hard for you. It wasn't at the time.
At the time of the divorce, it was a bit of a relief because my parents just weren't getting along. It wasn't anything too extraordinary, but growing up where they seemingly had always loved each other and then kind of getting into this kind of cold space. I just wanted them to be happy, and I think because I was almost sixteen, it was like, all right, whatever, I'm almost
out the house myself, you know. So they divorced, and the concern was that my mom was not going to necessarily they weren't going to necessarily be able to.
Afford for me to go to my school anymore.
And so at that point in time, my mom actually applied me to a school they cost a lot more money, because that's what makes sense. But she applied me to a country day school and they gave me a scholarship. And so while you know that school costs a lot of money, I was on a scholarship able to attend school there. And so, despite what some may think, I was a private school kid really from junior high through college, because even when I was to Rhodes, it was another private institution.
That's where you went to college in Memphis and Memphis. Yeah, and throughout your childhood, you were super close to your grandmother, who you called, oh my Annie, yes, and that sounds like it was an incredible formative relationship.
Oh man, I miss her every day.
She truly was my biggest fan, and I don't think there ever will be anyone that will fangirl out over me as much.
And that was way before any viral moment.
My grandmother kept me from six weeks of age. My mom went back to work after I was about six weeks old, and my grandmother kept myself and all my cousins. So even though I was an only child, I grew up with my cousins. And my grandparents were originally from Arkansas, so even though I was in Saint Louis, I had a pretty country upbringing. When I would get to my granny's house, my poppa he worked for Pepsi Cola really
his entire career. This was back when people would get a job and they would stay with it, and by the time he retired, they were shutting down the plant that he worked at, and it wasn't that far from their house. And my bike used to stay at my grandparents' house because my Papa would ride bikes with me, and so we would ride down to where the plant used to be located, and they allowed him.
They still owned the land, so they allowed him to do some farming.
So I guess this was probably the first urban farm that I became familiar with. And so my grandmother was a cook, and she had been like a cleaning lady as well. She used to cook and clean when I was super small for some very wealthy families in Saint Louis. But my papa would like grow all kinds of food and then bring it in and my granny would cook it. So here it is, we're like they were inner cities Saint Louis, but it was a little bit of their
Arkansas roots. And my papa every once in a while would load us up in his van and take us fishing. So for me, like a real man has to know how to fish, because that's what you know, my papa did with me as a little girl.
Sounds like they both had a huge influence on you. Oh yeah, both of your grandparents.
Yeah, they were truly my biggest fans. And I remember when my grandmother died. My grandfather had actually been in the hospital and one of my cousins called me at six am. And anybody that knows anything about me, they know that I'm not a morning person. So if you're calling me at an extraordinary hour, there's something that's going on. And so I was concerned that something had happened to
my grandfather because he was in the hospital. And I remember I was actually trying to lose weight at the time, you know how we go through those phases, And so I was actually up walking a trail, Katie trail in Dallas, and my cousin called and so I said, what happened to Papa? And she said, Noah's granny And I said, what about her? And the day that my grandfather was being discharged, they could not get a hold of my grandmother, and it was because she actually just randomly passed away.
So I was pretty devastated.
And at that time I had been practicing law for some time, but my grandma was like she had been saying, I want to come see you in court, you know, And so we had made plans for the summer because normally during the summertime is when we would really try a lot of cases.
And so she ended up dying in that spring before she could come.
And I remember being at the funeral and so many people saying all she could talk about was she couldn't wait to see her She's called me Jazzy bou couldn't wait to see her Jazzy Boo in court. So again, an original fan who truly felt like I could do no wrong. And I can only imagine what she think
of me now. I'm sure she'd be very proud. And it sounds like you were so lucky to have such loving grandparents and parents, because honestly, it make all the difference in terms of giving you this strong foundation confidence, kind of feeling comfortable in your own skin. I feel so bad when I meet people who weren't lucky enough to have that kind of love growing up. You know, you talk about your law career, Jasmine, but you came to law kind of I guess in a circumlocucious route.
I like that word, and it's because you found it a little bit later, because initially, I know, when you went to Rose College you were interested first in being an anesthesiologist, which made me laugh, not because there's anything funny about being an anesthesiologist, but your reason was you didn't want to talk to people. And I thought, wait a second, Jasmine Crockett doesn't want to talk to people.
That sounded so out of character to me.
Yeah, No, did not want to talk to people. I thought it would be great just put people to sleep and I have to talk to them. So that was really for it. I mean, math and science nerd. I mean that's why, you know, when it comes down to it, when I'm in committee hearings, I always want to have my data in my facts because that's just how my brain works, right. But I did not want to talk to people, and now I can't stop. I would like
to to a certain extent. We get asked to kind of do speaking engagements a lot, and I'm like, I'm really okay, like I don't have to guys.
But but were you shy or introverted at some point? No, no, just not interested.
No, yeah no.
I was like, I've got my friends, I'm fine, and you know, I just want to do the work and go home.
That was.
My attitude about it. So I think it is kind of odd that I am in this type of profession. And even when I was practicing law, I actually really really loved it.
And I mean I would, you know, talk to clients one on one.
Fine, But I actually really love jury trial, which is really weird because I'm walking in and it's a bunch of strangers, and we've got to somehow get them down to who actually is going to be on the jury. And then convincing a bunch of strangers to like believe me and take my side. I like the challenge of it. But again, it was as I was speaking. I was speaking, and I was just kind of giving them facts and kind of walking them through a story versus kind of what I do a lot of now, which is just
kind of pumping people up. But I think, honestly, the reason that I get requested to speak a lot is because I do actually stick to as many facts as possible.
But you also, I think speak your mind, which we'll talk about in a moment, because I want to talk about how you became a lawyer, and it was very difficult circumstances that kind of opened your eyes. You're at Rose College and mem this soon and you are really the victim of I guess you would even call it hate crimes. Tell us what happened at Rhodes and then how that led you to a path of wanting to pursue being a lawyer.
Yeah, so you know again, I mean grew up in Saint Louis, Saint Louis is a pretty segregated place, to be perfectly honest, and you know, going to the private schools, it was nothing for me to be potentially the only black person in my class, right like in a specific class, so definitely was not necessarily in a super black environment. When I went to Rhodes, there were eighteen black students in my freshman class, that is, that's it. And by the time I graduated, we were down to ten, and
we were actually one of the larger classes. The senior class at that time had three or four African Americans. But I didn't feel a certain way because I had gone to these private schools where the numbers were few anyway, But it's interesting that I never felt racism until I got to a very black city, Memphis and on campus in my little bubble. And it's interesting because it's in North Memphis, which is very black, and they decided to target myself as well as a number of other black students.
If you had a car, it was keyed with the N word.
And in our on.
Campus mailboxes they put these Jack the Rippers type style type letters, right so where they would cut letters from magazines and that kind of stuff. And they were making up sentences and none of it said that I was a child of God. I can tell you that, just really ugly stuff. But I felt very vulnerable because you're on campus mailbox. It's not something that is publicly known. So this meant it was someone who absolutely knew me,
knew my friends. And then again, who would know who drives what car?
What ear was this? Jasmine? I was in my junior but what year night?
It was twenty oh I graduated three, so this was one ish maybe a one o twoish. So it was just the first time that I felt racism. I'd heard about racism, but I didn't really understand it because I was always in environments in which I would be one of a few. But I mean it didn't matter, like my friends were my friends, and you know, whatever sounds terrifying, it was. It was awful. It was truly awful.
And Johnny Cochrane, who I knew very well, really yes, because I covered the OJ trial and also Reginald Denny. Anyway, Johnny and I became very close friends, and his law firm came to represent you, all right, and that's when you met someone. I'm wondering if I know the person you met from Johnny's law firm.
And it's crazy because I've told this story a million times and I do not remember the lawyer's name, even though she was so influential.
I hope one day she reaches out.
Well, you know what, I can probably find that out. I know Dale Cochran, Johnny's wife, and I'll ask her for you. Yeah, yes, I think I know who it is too. But anyway, one of Johnny's associates or lawyers, maybe she was a partner at that time, came to Memphis and helped you all.
I think she was.
So they had a Memphis office at the time, so I think she was out of the Memphis office. But they had a team of them, and I don't know who all was assigned to who, but the attorney assigned to me, And I can.
See her good enough.
She was tall, bright skinned black woman and she wasn't too old at the time, and she was assigned to me. And they were trying to do the investigation. And this was a part of the school saying, hey, we're going to bring in somebody independently to try to figure out, you know, what happened.
And they never figured out what happened.
I was going to say, they never found out who did this. They never found out.
And it's funny because I'm thinking, I feel like she had like a Nicole or a Michelle, like a.
Name like that.
But anyway, she graduated from University of Houston School of Law, and you know, being with people in this moment, I thought, Man, this is the work that I need to be doing, is to be that person that can be helpful even if you're not solving it, just knowing that you're not alone and that there's somebody that you can turn to. So I tell people all the time that God has to yell at me to move me. And so you know, I ended up having this incident and meeting that attorney.
In addition to I have been recruited to do mock trial after doing a play a musical on campus, and so my mockschow coach was like, hey, you really should consider a law school. I become an All American and mock trial as well the one year that I did it, and so you know, it was just a culmination. Everything was pointing that way. And then when I applied to law school, I got a full ride to go to Texas Southern and so.
And then you're transferred, right, and then I.
Transferred yep, and so I was like, all right, this is clearly what God wants me to do, because everything was leading me down that path.
Hi everyone, it's Katie Couric. You know I'm always on the go between running my media company, hosting my podcast, and of course covering the news. And I know that to keep doing what I love, I need to start caring for what gets me there, my feet. That's why I decided to try the Good Feet stores personalized arch support system. I met with a Good Feet arch support specialist and after a personalized fitting, I left the store with my three step system designed to improve comfort, balance
and support. My feet. Means and back are thanking me already. Visit goodfeet dot com to learn more, find the nearest store, or book your own free personalized fitting. When you became a public defender, Jasmine, I know that really opened your eyes about the criminal justice system and how it treats some people versus others. And you worked you represented such a cross section of people. What impact did that have on you?
It truly led me down the political path being a public defender.
You know there's one case that I always looked.
There's a number of cases, but there was one case that in my mind, was the catalyst for me deciding to get into politics. And I represented a seventeen year old kid who had stolen candy out of the concession stand at his high school. And in Texas, it can technically be a felony, and it just depends on who's
prosecuting the case. The prosecutor at the time decided to prosecute this kid, who was stolen less than twenty dollars worth of candy for a state jail felony where he was facing up to two years in prison, and I just was like, this isn't right. I mean, like my mind was like, this doesn't make sense. But I didn't represent the kid initially, he had a different attorney, and then he ended up with a probation violation and that's
when I ended up being assigned to him. And I was so frustrated because it was the type of case that I felt like, should just go to a jury trial, because no jury, I think that a seventeen year old kid should go to prison. But he ended up on a probation violation because his mom was struggling and working and wasn't able to go to school and pick him up and take him to go see his po in the middle of the day. And so we had technical violations.
He didn't commit any new crimes, he didn't have dirty ways, he had technical violations for not showing up to his probation officer. In the judge gave maximum sentence, and I just was like, this just cannot be right. And it's funny because I've told that story a number of times and I'm sure the MAGA world would think that this was a black kid, but this wasn't. This was a young white male. And for me, justice has truly always
been a blind thing. I ultimately got into politics because of an injustice that was served upon someone who literally was more so service in justice because he was poor.
And I think that.
When I reflect on the various injustices that I've experienced or seen firsthand, it's really been more socio economic than anything. Obviously, our criminal justice system definitely has issues when it comes to color as well.
And there's a lot of overlap between races, so soolic circumstances.
Absolutely, and I think that there are those that don't realize that the socio economics ends up impacting so many people, and it does cross the color barriers. But you can definitely see kind of the straight line a lot of times, whether we're talking about any.
People of color. To be perfectly honest.
When you were serving as a public defender, did you also witness people who were being treated differently because of their stature, their wealth, or socioeconomic status.
All of that. I mean, the injustices ran rampant.
And as someone who's licensed to practice in Texas and Arkansas who's done both urban as well as rule, I mean, you know, the amount of time that someone would get in rural Texas versus the amount of time for the same thing in urban Texas just night and day.
You know.
So that's even another divide that we see, and a lot of it comes down to, really, you know, Democrats versus Republicans and how they choose to offer sentences, what it is that they're willing to consider as mitigation. I just see a lot of heartlessness where it's just a matter of like just lock them up and throw away the key. Like again, that kid got a maximum sentence, and I just kept remembering he wasn't a criminal. Not
excuse him? What he did, but I don't know what else is childish but still in candy, Like I mean, like, I don't know what is more childish. And so I remember tracking him a bit and he ended up getting into more serious trouble because of his incarceration, right, and the people that he ended up being around and that kind of stuff. And so you know, when I ultimately went to the state legislature, I was really focused on fixing the criminal justice system with smart legislation because I
knew the real impacts. Like, you have a lot of lawmakers on all levels that do things theoretically it's like, oh, I should do this because this seems like it's good for criminal justice, but they have never walked a day in so many people's shoes, and they've never taken the time to even examine the impact of their legislation. And so, you know, these are the things that inform me. These are the things that really created this pathway for me to have this desire to kind of do something more.
It's just witnessing the injustices seeing how you know, I've had clients that died because they didn't take them seriously enough. You know, I remember having a client that was accused of killing his mom, and they didn't have evidence that he killed his mom, and I kept there was a type of hearing that I could have to challenge probable cause, and I remember having it and the judge just ruled against me, and I'm like, I'm right, you know, like it was. It was terrible and really this is these
are white folk again. But he was prosecuted because he was poor. Essentially, they were like, oh, when they went and got his mother, who was elderly, she had a mattress that was on the floor and the place was not clean, and so they were like, you're living with your mom and this is you know, how she's living.
You did something a killer with no evidence.
And this guy, you know, in my opinion, probably struggled a little bit mentally because he was in his fifties or sixties and he was still living with mom and some other things, and he was depressed and he was overweight and he stopped eating. And I remember telling him in the jail, I'm like, my client's not eating, Like we need to do something.
We need to make sure that you know, he's alive.
And they kind of looked at him, thinking he's overweight, he'll be fine, and he died, and after he died, they determined that his mom died of natural causes, and so like, it's just hard to imagine a world where you don't have enough people that care to do right by people. And so that same kind of like passion that carried me through as a public defender, that led me to want to change laws, is the same passion
this many years later. These are the real life experiences that I know can take place when there's bad people that are in power or just people that just don't care. So when we go through things like the Reconciliation Package and thinking about the harm that will happen not just to my constituents but just generally, I carry that weight with me.
Because you've seen it up close.
Yeah, and you mentioned Republican and Democrat attitudes. But I also think it's interesting to note that Democrats don't have a great track record necessarily of criminal justice reform. When you think about the three strikes law being passed under Bill Clinton, right, yeah, yeah, so I think that for a long time this criminal justice reform wasn't looked on kindly by either party.
No, no, that you know, the answer, especially to the crack epidemic was just lock everybody up, block everybody up, lock everybody up. And we've seen a similar situation with meth and now we're saying, you know, I mean they continue to do it with every new kind of dangerous drug. I mean, you know, it's like the issue with the borders, all the drugs, and I'm like, there's all kinds of drugs that have always come across the border, and they will continue to come across the border. Like that's just
kind of a thing. And this idea of incarcerating, incarceratingcarc rate, it's never fixed it. It's never fixed it. Like we're still trying to do the same thing to fix the
same problem and it's still not being fixed. And so instead of getting to the root cause of the problems, right, like figuring out why is it that addiction is not fixed by incarceration, and like working on addiction so that you can drive down the demand for this illegal kind of narcotics circle that we find ourselves in, or finding out like what causes someone to be more inclined to even engage in drugs, and like fixing those things, fixing
the environments because for some people it's environmental for some people, it's literally self medication, you know, when we look at so many of our unhoused people, and when we look at our veterans, and we look at like the fact that we don't have adequate access to healthcare, especially when we start to talk about mental health care, Like, I'm
just like, there's a lot that we could do. We could maybe invest in mental health and maybe take a little bit out of incertion and maybe we will get a bigger and better results.
So addressing the root causes of a lot of these social ills really made you want to go into politics to try to see what you could do, obviously fueled by your experience as a lawyer. And you have only been in Congress since twenty twenty three, right, And I'm curious when you got there, I'm sure you had big aspirations for fixing the system or addressing some of these root causes. I'm curious, Jasmine, what you found when you
got to Washington and had this opportunity. Did you feel like you could actually do some of the things you set out to do or were you immediately frustrated?
What did you think?
So I was green going into the Texas House by the time I came to the US House, I understood.
So you started obviously at the state level.
Yes, So when I went into the Texas House, that's where I was like, Okay.
This is my time. You know.
I was absolutely positive that because I had actual experience in these spaces, that people would say, oh, she's the experienced one, and they would listen, and boy was I wrong. And so it's interesting by the time I got to the federal level, I would say that my expectations had
been tempered. But one of the kind of things that really made me say, you know what, I can go ahead and go for the federal level is that there was a former ambassador under Clinton actually who was really trying to convince me that I should consider going to the federal level. And I was like, no, I mean, stuff is messed up enough in Texas. I'll just deal with this nonsense down here, like, I don't want to
go to a bigger mess. And he said, at least if you go to the federal level, there's a chance that you may end up in the majority.
You are not going to be in the majority in Texas.
And he was like, and even when you're not in the majority, you have so much more access to resources to be able to send to your district. He was like, I think that you'll like it better from that vantage point, just being able to do more. And true, I've been able to do more.
Is it enough? No?
Am I competitive? And do I want us to end up in the majority so.
That I can actually get things done? Yeah? Absolutely.
You know I know how to play defense, I mean, for sure, but that's not where I want to be.
I want to be on offense.
You have been clearly one of the rising stars of the Democratic Party. You have an enormous social media following. We'll talk about some of your strong responses on Capitol Hill in a moment. But why do you think you have been able to connect with people, especially young people, because you have a big following among younger voters gen Z voters especially. What is it you think, Jasmine?
I think it's the fact that I don't sound like a politician all the time. Instead, I sound more relatable and like a frustrated American. You know, as everything has kind of fallen apart around us, we still have some very good political figures that are seemingly holding it together in front of the camera.
And I'm looking like, what the hell, you know. And I think that how.
Can they hold it together? How can they be so controlled?
Exactly?
And I think that when people are reading the room or reading them, they're thinking, Okay, something's wrong with you, Like you are straight up just political, like you're a machine. And people are more trusting, in my opinion, of people that they feel like are relating to their feelings. And I am completely frustrated.
But also who are unvarnished and emotional and direct and talk like you talk to your neighbor over a cup of coffee exactly.
So I think ultimately, you know, one of the things that I've talked to the caucus is about consistently is being authentic. And my authentic self is not going to be who everyone else is in the caucus. But your authenticity, whoever you are, it comes through, and there's someone that can relate to you. There's someone that can relate to all of us.
Isn't it interesting that that's what people credit Donald Trump with being authentic, not sounding like a politician, being unedited, unvarnished, you know, no four second delay between his brain and his mouth. But it's interesting, isn't it? He's authentic? But I guess the question is authentically what. I don't think he's authentic, You don't.
I don't because he lies all the time, and I think that you have to be honest to be authentic. I will say that people were more inclined to be accepting of him because he did not sound like a politician, and so for them they read it as authenticity. But as so many people are getting frustrated with him because they're like, well, wait a minute, you said you were going to do this, but you're doing something else. He's not a true and honest kind of person. And I
think to be authentic you have to be that. You know, there were people that felt like, oh, he's one of me, right, Like he's like me. And it's like, no, he's a NEPO baby. He's not like you, you know what I mean. And so I think that there are you know, NEPO babies that come across authentic. But he was able to connect with I do think he had an authentic connection with certain people's frustration in general, right, I.
Think, Well, I mean I think he recognized it.
He certainly didn't have a connection yeah right, yeah, So he was almost costplain in a way.
Was it he or isn't he? Yes.
I think that that's the best way to say it, is that he's costplaying, But he wasn't costplaying as a politician, and I think people were more inclined to believe, well, this guy must be honest. Who would say half of these things unless they're being honest?
Right like?
Because he says the craziest things and does the craziest things, so it was read as honesty, and they would even give them passes for things that are completely inappropriate because they'd say, oh, well, I mean, at least he's being honest, right at least I know what I'm getting with him, And it's like, no, you don't, and now you're finding out.
I want to talk more about the Trump administration, but I will also want to talk about President Biden, because when other people were pressuring him to step down, even when your caucus was wavering, you stood firmly behind him. And I'm curious how you feel with some of these revelations about his decline and energy and perhaps even mental acuity that we've been reading about, and if it's given you any pause and any regret, not a single one.
I still stand by the decision to stand with President Joe Biden and then ultimately standing with Vice President Kamala Harris, and I'll tell you why the average person has not been given the level of access that the average member of Congress has to the president. I never saw anything in Joe Biden that made me wonder whatsoever. And it's not that I was with Joe Biden every single day,
that's for sure. But as I talked about my grandparents, the way that I would describe Joe is, I mean, he's a granddaddy, right, and so like you know, the way that my granny was when she was younger versus ultimately kind of where she was at eighty one when she ended up passing away. Mentally she was still there, but like her attitude about certain things like whether or not she was looking to be as polished or cared to be as polished, or even if she moved as fast,
it just wasn't there. We all slow down. But I will tell you that I will take a broken or however they want to describe Joe Biden over Donald Trump any given day, because number one, I know Joe Biden's heart, and I can tell you that when you look at the legislation that he was able to push forward with This wasn't legislation that was about him and his rich friends. It was legislation that was for the good of the
American people. And when you look at the people that he surrounded himself with, even if you're saying that there was a mentally deficient Joe Biden, I know that he apptsolutely had a mental acuity that is supreme when it comes to comparing him to Donald Trump, because at least he kept good people around him. He kept people that would keep us safe in this country. He kept people that would make sure that even as tensions were rising all around the world, that we were keeping those tempered.
He was able to understand with his level of mental acuity, who our friends were. He was not getting us into unwarranted terrafors and things like that. So even if we want to say, which I refuse to accept, that Joe Biden was mentally deficient, let me tell you something. His mental deficiency is still a thousand times better than what we currently have. And so, you know, I just wish that ultimately this country would judge each of our leaders with the same measuring stick we do not.
There was a lot of pressure that was put on Joe Biden.
There were a lot of criticisms that were lodged at him as well as Kamala Harris. Now, the question is why is it that none of these critiques came about for Donald Trump? Right, Because when you think about it, Kamala Harris light years ahead of Donald Trump, as relates to qualifications, as relates to her overall resume, and as it relates to the fact that she was a lot younger. Everybody said that they wanted to get rid of Joe
Biden because he was too old. Then you had a younger qualified, non felon candidate, and somehow the people still chose the old white man. So like for me, I don't think it was ever about that. I think Democrats have for a very long time allowed Republicans to play them. So essentially, Republicans came up with a narrative and Democrats decided to play into that, and that only hurt the Democrats because ultimately they still went with a very old man.
Right, what was the narrative? You think the narrative was.
That Joe Biden was too old and that he was seen now, right, like that was the narrative that the Republicans went with and the Democrats picked up on it and bought it. I mean, think about the number of resignations that we've seen out of Democrats right, like, oh, you know, one person gets accused of something, they're like, oh, you got to step down, just an accusation, right, And it's usually like the right will kind of fuel it
because they know the Democrats will eat their own. And it's not to say that we shouldn't have standards, but it is to say that we should understand what we're being played. And so I kept saying, we stand by Joe Biden because he has a record to run on.
Now, whether or not we were getting.
Out there and communicating effectively about that record, I say we didn't. And I say that it had to be a team sport. It couldn't just be that, you know, we were relying on the president to get all the information out.
It was incumbent upon us.
We were supposed to go into our districts with these big fake checks and make sure all the local media was there and we talk about the investments that were being made and make sure that they knew Joe Biden did this, that new facility, Joe Biden did that, like it was up to us to really be good partners.
And you don't think Democrats were.
I don't think that we were. Instead, if we spent half as much time beating down Joe Biden as we did uplifting, all that was accomplished, and it got accomplished in only two years because he only had the House in the Senate for two years. Ultimately, when the history books are written, he will go down as a very accomplished president, as one of our best presidents. But if people don't know, if we're not communicating, then it's almost
like we didn't do anything. And I still think that we are struggling with figuring out how to communicate out to the general public.
Hi everyone, it's me Katie Couric. You know, if you've been following me on social media, you know I love to cook, or at least try, especially alongside some of my favorite chefs and foodies like Benny Blanco, Jake Cohen, Lighty Hoyke, Alison Roman, and Ininegarten. So I started a free newsletter called Good Taste to share recipes, tips and kitchen mustaves. Just sign up at Katiecuric dot com slash good Taste that's k A T I E c o U r ic dot com slash good Taste. I promised
your taste buds will be happy you did. Let me ask you about the Democratic Party because obviously it has gotten tons of criticism and you're saying that Democrats should have supported Joe Biden. But I think many Americans feel like the Democratic Party is lost, feckless, cannot get their shit together to be just to say it, you know, real, what do you think the Democratic Party needs to do to reinvigorate itself, to have a leader, to have some organizing principle.
Yeah, so, first of all, I think we need to rebrand. I don't know that we've ever invested in branding. I can't really tell you what our brand is.
Well, I don't know.
It's diverse, and maybe that's part of the problem, right, it doesn't speak with one voice. There are a lot of different voices it is, which isn't necessarily bad.
No, I think that it's actually one of our strengths. But I do think that the Republicans have branded us as weak, right that I mean when people like you say, e feckless, right, Like, I mean, we've been branded as weak, and I think when people are looking for leadership, you don't ever when you go through and you say list the act of a leader week is not one of those attributes that anyone will ever list as a descriptor.
So I think that number one, we.
Have to brand ourselves as something other than we've been branded as elitist and weak, and I think that we have to be branded as strong as well as for everyone.
You know, I hear weak, But I think it's interesting because why is tolerance and acceptance branded is weak?
I can't tell you why is branded is weak, but it has been and I think I think because we have had kind of a turn the cheek type of attitude like we're going to always be the adults in the room.
And we are. We are still going to be the adults in the room.
But you know, when you've got people that are beating you down and then you don't really respond, I think that people are like, okay, like are you gonna fight for me? You're not fighting for yourself, right, And so I think that there are ways to do it, and
I think we're starting to get our footing. But I think for the longest, we have so many institutionalists that believe that if I just show you how the institution is supposed to work, then Marjorie Taylor Green and others, you will come into the fold and you'll start to respect the institution.
They don't care.
Like you need to evaluate some of these kind of new actors, including the president himself, and say like no, like we can't play foot. See like this guy is like punching people in the face, whether we're talking about presidents and leaders of other countries. I mean, he's completely disrespectful and ignores all norms, and I think we have to deal with him in the way that he is. I think that we go back to showing the world and the country what leadership should look like, which is thoughtful,
which is compassionate, while also being very strong. When we got the White House bag like we do it like once we're the ones in the seats.
But I don't think that we do it from afar.
And I think that ultimately who will become the Democratic nominee for president will be someone that has been out there and has shown that they won't allow themselves to be punched in the face and just say thank you, like they will punch back.
I think that that's what's going to happen.
That's a perfect segue to your encounter. Obviously you're infamous, famous encounter with Marjorie Taylor Green.
Let's listen. Do you know what we're here for? You know we're here. What you're here for? Well, you do want talking about?
I guess order.
I do have a point of order, and I would like to move to to take down miss Green's words. That is absolutely unacceptable. How dare you, I mean, are your feelings her words down?
Oh? Oh girl, baby girl?
Oh really, don't even play, baby girl. We are gonna move and we're gonna take your words down there second motion.
I'm just curious, just to better understand your ruling. If someone on this committee then starts talking about somebody's bleach blonde, bad built, butch body, that would not be engaging in personalities.
Correct. Oh what now?
All right, take us back to that moment, Jasmine. First of all, how you had kind of the hutzpah to come back at her and sort of what that whole experience was like for you.
Yeah, I was really annoyed. That was a bad day.
On that day, the vast majority of the Republicans on the Oversight Committee decided that they would venture up to New York, so we did not have committee when we were supposed to have committee earlier in the day. So the Democrats were at work while the Republicans were on a field trip to support there soon to be felonious candidate. And so we had to have our hearing at eight pm, and she was still talking about Judge Mrshawan, And that's not what the hearing was about, whatsoever.
The hearing was about.
Our attorney general and whether or not he should be held in content. And so I was like, what are we doing? You know, like, you guys finally show up to work and then you don't even know what you're here for.
And then that's when she decided to kind of insult you.
Yeah, And so the thing is, it was a clear violation of the rules, and Comer didn't quite understand that he would lose a vote. So it was my understanding he was going to rule against her if she failed to apologize, but she was going to apologize. Then she was like, I'm not gonna apologize, Like I'm not apologizing, and so then Jamie Raskin was like, well, she's gonna have to go because that's the rule like, once we take down your words, then you you got to go.
You can't rule is if you attack someone personally.
Yeah, then you are engaging in personalities and then you take down their words and so it's a part of the record and then what happens is they're not allowed to participate for the rest of that committee hearing. Well, he was concerned about his numbers because not everyone has showed up for this eight pm he vote, and he needed her vote and so next thing, you know, they were like, oh, he's gonna, you know, change his ruling.
I was like what And so you know, I looked over and I was like, I cannot let this like slad like it was so pissed because I was like, you guys are ignored the rules. And so that's when I looked over at her and wrote it down on a piece of paper and from hand to toe, trust her down and I asked, and I did it in the form of a parliamentary inquiry because I did not want to violate the rules, but I also wanted to teach a lesson about how bad this could go.
And so yeah, yeah, and you credit your granny, yes for coming up with some of the bad monology.
Yes, she used to call people bad built. See, once they get to a certain age, they just say whatever. And that was one of the things that she used to do in her older age. She would look at people and call them bad built.
You got a lot of feedback for that exchange or that comment or that what did you call it? Parliamentary and it was a skit on SNL And I'm sure you heard from a lot of people. I'm sure you heard both positive and negative. But was it mostly positive? It was mostly positive?
And what were people saying to you?
People were really happy that the bully finally got bullied, but in a very creative, classy way that kind of showed my mental superiority. So people were really happy, I mean even Republicans. I was getting high fives from Republican colleagues and winks and different people being like, I think.
Your eyelashes are great, you know.
Like, so there was a lot of positivity really from both sides of the aisle, not just in the chamber but also like outside, And you know, the one response I didn't really expect to have was just the number of like women of color that talked about some of their work spaces and just the level of disrespect that they get and just being able to see me stand up for myself and Congress really made them feel like that they could stand up for themselves as well, and
that they needed to dig into their own kind of rules in their own organizations. But they felt like, you know what, if a congresswoman can do this, I can as well. Now they weren't going out calling people Bleachmond that built bitch bodies, but you know, just at least standing up for themselves and feeling confident to do it.
But what, you know, what do you say to those who believe this is kind of a breakdown of decorum and civility in Congress? There's that argument, you know, the Michelle Obama when they go low, we go high attitude. You know, this whole idea that I'm sure you grew up with your mom seeing this, you know, you don't
want to sync to their level type thing. Yeah, did it give you any pause to say, you know what you were talking about, these people who want to protect the institution, or do you think that that's not at this point in time or at this moment in history, the way to go.
Yeah?
I still think that, you know, I did it in such a way that kind of walked a line of sorts because that was not my first thought. Oh, when I got insulted, it was to you know, throw an insult like right back. And so I think, I think that there are ways to do this, but I definitely think that we've got to do something. So I think that this is just kind of where we are. And
I recall when my predecessor chose me. One of the things that she talked about, and she had been there for thirty years, she said, Congress isn't what it used to be. And that's saying a lot when you've been there for thirty years. I mean, she was basically like, this place is going to hell in a hand basket, is basically what she was telling me. So I think that we have different generations of fighters for different fights, and I think that we will get back on track.
I do. I think that people will get weary of.
This, and you know, I feel like there's a little bit of that that's already kind of sinking in. But until we get these type of bad actors out, I think that it needs to be clear that if y'all want to fight, we can fight. But honestly, I just want The only type of fighting that I want to do is in the form of legislation that will better the lives of my constituents in front, better the labs of the vast majority of theirs as well.
Do you find other Democrats are more willing to take the gloves off now than they used to be?
I think those of us that haven't been in institutions too long are more willing and more apt.
Yeah, I want to talk to you about some of the things that are going on in this country, Jasmine, before you go, what do you think about what has happened in la and calling up the National Guard, the Marines and basically saying this could happen in every state in our country.
I truly have no words.
You know, you grow up as a little girl in this country and you think, man, this is a great place to live and it's only going to get better, and then you become the adult version of me, and you have a president that is openly just a criminal, like not just the convictions he's got, consistently breaking laws, ignoring court orders, violating the Constitution, and doing it all because he really is seeking this retribution, this retribution that he campaigned on.
He said, I will be your retribution.
And so this idea that we don't care how many people get hurt, we don't care how we prostitute our service members, you know, thinking that you have your own special little army that's for you. I mean, it is just it is sick. It is really sick, and anybody that supports it is also sick. And so you know, we've got a mental health crisis in this country because everyone, no matter how you affiliate yourself, should be against Trump.
Period.
This is not partisan for me, Like I would give anything to have sad to say, George Bush, I like, give me any regular repat Republican nowadays and I would be happy. But right now we have someone who does not care, and he is being enabled by the fact that there are you know, people that follow him and they pump him up as well as the people that are surrounding him. And so, you know, my heart breaks
for service members. People that signed up to protect democracy and freedom not only here but abroad, and we're willing to risk their lives and now literally the very thing that they signed up to fight against is now their commander in chief. It really breaks my heart and I don't know how far he has to go before we can come together and just say enough is enough, like
this should not be partisanship. The final point that I'll make is that Tribeca just ended and they did a screening of a documentary that I'm in and Scott the Inquisitor, and it's about Barbara Jordan, and you know.
It's amazing.
It is an amazing, amazing documentary. But to watch her in the age of Nixon, and to see and hear about her thought process about Nixon, and to know that there were members of his party they were like, no, right, Like it wasn't partisanship. It was right versus wrong. It's the things that they teach you when you're in elementary school,
and somehow we don't have that right now. Behind closed doors, Republicans will say, you know, I remember them telling me how much they hated Elon, but they would not do that out front. They wanted us to take Elon down right, and they will even say things about Trump.
They won't do what's right.
They won't honor their oath, the oath that they swore to the Constitution.
Why not.
I have no idea other than their cowards bottom line on their cowards, anyone that potentially would do right, They would rather preserve their opportunity to still be associated with the Republican Party and not be ostracized and not be targeted by MAGA and just resign. You know, we've got a new resignation that was just announced here just about two weeks ago.
I think he's charing Homeland.
He's only been in Congress since eighteen and he's like, I'm out. But instead of just doing what's right because you disagree with what's happening, he's like, I'll leave.
We had a number of retirements.
Unfortunately, like the ones that you see retire on the Republican side are people that probably are like I just can't be a.
Part of this, instead of just say why yeah, how do you see this whole chapter in American history coming to a close? Are you positive that sanity and adherence to the Constitution will prevail or do you worry what's down the road if we continue on this path.
There are no absolutes, and we know that democracy and freedom have to be one and fought four and one in every generation. This is our generational fight. I can tell you that I was elated to see the outpouring of people for no kings versus the lack of attendance for you know, the birthday parade. But you know, right now we have a party that is held bent on
rigging the system. Right now, the President has called down to my governor and wants him to find a way to do mid He wants to do redistricting right now, and it is so that mid decade, sorry mid decade redistricting so that he can get five additional seats out of Texas. We have thirty eight seats in Texas, only thirteen belong to Democrats.
The numbers are already.
Completely skewed, and they want to cheat to get five more seats.
We know that the.
Democrats should have been in control of the House but for the Republican controlled newly Republican controlled Supreme Court in North Carolina deciding to redistrict again once they got control in taking three seats.
So they are held bent on power no matter what. And you know, I don't know that.
The American people fully understand that, but I say that the most patriotic thing that anybody can do, regardless of your political affiliation, is to vote for whoever is not the Republican in every single ballot for the next at least three, four or five ballots, to at least restore some sense of calm, to at least make Republicans nervous that the people are not going to stand for this and just blindly vote for the person that has r Because you may want to put all the blame on Trump,
but the reality is that he's got a lot of co conspirators and accomplices that have allowed him to do this.
I can't let you go without asking you about the events of this weekend. The same weekend the No Kings protests, I guess they're saying thirteen million Americans turned out all over the country, and that very same weekend, State Representative Melissa Hortman was murdered in her home along with her husband and two others obviously critically wounded. These are really
scary times for elected officials. Jasmine, and I'm curious how you're feeling about if you're personally nervous, and how the rhetoric, the violent rhetoric, can be toned down.
You know, I'm not nervous. You know, I tell people all the time, God has not given me a spirit of fear. I am of the opinion stay ready so you don't have to get ready. The number of death threats that I get are a little bit higher than average, so we have consistently had to figure out our safety.
I think I'm more frustrated than anything. I'm frustrated that, you know, I have colleagues that will engage in certain rhetoric and then come and high five to you and talk to you and you know things, and it's like, dude, like we should be shutting down some of this stuff, right.
You know the fact that on that day, Marjorie Taylor Green had the audacity to you know, post a picture of her with this, you know, ridiculously Siah's gun and that kind of stuff, Like that's just ridiculous, exactly, like all of that, Like this isn't a game, Like you had people that died. And maybe it's funny to you because they're Democrats, but honestly, again, you talk about being a patriot or an American, like you should not be okay with this.
You should not be okay with lawlessness. You should not.
Be okay with you know, encouraging killers or potentially inciting other killers because they know that you'll give them a pat on the back, like you should not be engaging in that at the same time that you're pretending as if all the crime in our country is caused by immigrants, immigrants that have come over and somehow you're having to go to their jobs to grab them up and round them up and throw them who knows where, But they
are the ones that are causing the crime. Like the hypocrisy is astounding, but also the heartlessness, whether it is in their rhetoric or whether it's in their bills, the fact that they go around and they say that they're Christians and there is nothing Christian or loving or compassionate or merciful about anything that they do. And so for me, I just want the American people to wake up. If you really, like I tell people all the time, if you want Jesus go to church. You really shouldn't look
for us in your politics. But if you are, don't listen to just somebody saying or proclaiming that they're a Christian. Like I don't care who you are, you should not be okay with you know, Mike Lee posting it. I mean just it's absolutely astounding. And I remember I messaged a Republican that I consider to be a friend. Can't say his name because then he'll lose all of his you know, Republican bouta fides. But I text him, I say, yo, get your people in line, Like we are not protected.
You know, the only people that can afford to be protected are people that raise enough money to actually pay for security, because they don't do anything to protect us,
like at all. I have been asking for a while put extra money into our MRA, which is a our official account, our budget, so that we can have protection, like they don't give us capital police officers, Like you have to be a high ranking Democrat regardless of your threats, you just have to be like in a certain or Democrat or a Republican to end up getting a team.
That's it.
They're the only You have to have a certain amount of money. You're saying, basically you can pay for it.
Well no, no, no, no, they supply it. So if you are like the minority leader, so you have to be at a certain level, yes.
You have to be at a certain level, or you have to pay for your own out of your campaign funds. And I think that that's unfair because it's like I'm just trying to serve people, like and when I go out to campaign, like, I want to make sure that I'm giving people the information about why am my candidacy matters?
Not having to look out for my security because my job is a security risk, like you should just like they are protecting the thug that's in the White House, Like we could get one person, you know what I mean, Like, just like he could have forty five million dollars to have this stupid parade, forty five million dollars going across four hundred and thirty five members of the House. You could have gave us that money to protect us. It would be I mean literally, that would have been more
than enough. There's so many things that could have been more worthwhile. And this is after, you know, Steve Scalise is still serving, but this is after he literally was shot in the congressional baseball game. Like, I mean, how many members have to die or how many.
Political figures have to be targeted?
We put in more money for the protection detail of Donald Trump after those attempts in a bipartisan way, because it was the right thing to do. So I'm just like, I don't understand why we're not making movement, and so you know, I'm gonna continue to beat the drum, but I think I'm probably gonna beat it more publicly now because I have been trying to go through the process of saying, yo, we need more protection.
And it's fallen on deafairs.
Are you optimistic this whole thing is going to end in a positive way ultimately? Do you think democracy will prevail?
That's my hope. All I got is hope right now. I don't have anything beyond that. You're still excited about public service.
I'm excited about the people that I have an opportunity to serve. I don't know about the mechanics of service itself, but definitely very excited to go home or even just travel the country and know that people are having their faith restored in politicians.
Jasmine Crockett, thank you so much. This was so great to be able to get to know you and talk to you about these issues. Of course I have a million more questions, but you've got people to see in places to go, so.
Yes, I do. Thanks so great, Thank you so much.
Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me, a subject you want us to cover, or you want to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world, reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian
Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi everyone, it's Katiekuric.
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