Jonathan Van Ness is Busy Being Fabulous

I think it was because there weren't many celebrities at the after party. Think so. I think everyone is very proud of you, because without you, this would not have happened. It's been going on now for ten years. You've raised half a billion dollars for cancer research, and more than that, you've really helped to revolutionize the way cancer research is done. Well, we're trying, and I have to give credit where credit

is due. It takes a village. There were nine of us and all who started this organization, and of course a cast of thousands behind the show last night. So I'm glad you were there, Brian. Thank you for my incredible seat. I know Brian had a front row seat with my really close friend Wendy and her her boy toy Randy can have a boy toy when you're in your sixties. And my daughter Ellie was there with her boyfriend Mark and my niece Laura. So it was a

very special night for me. Thank you for coming and thank you for supporting Stand Up to Cancer, Brian, and for any of you out there who watched and have supported this effort, Thanks to you as well. So I thought it was going to be prettyep, pretty deep, pretty tired, as Larry David would say this morning, But that changed in a nana second when I met this young man named Jonathan van Ness and he's the star of a new Netflix show called Queer Eye. Well actually it's not

quite a new show. It's a reboot of a show that aired from two thousand three to two thousand seven, and that's right, it's in its second season as well. But however you describe it, it is a monster hit. And after spending just an hour with j VN as my daughter calls him, I can understand why. He is absolutely a brilliant and I don't know, I wanted to say, I'll have what he's having because the guy has more so much energy. He makes me feel like I'm on vallium.

He is a uniquely enthusiastic character, but very authentic to who he is. By the way, highly intelligent, clearly incredibly well read, very engaged, and has a lot of smart informed opinions. We should say for people who don't watch the show, that queer eye. The premise is basically that these five gay guys travel to various places and they make over somebody. It used to be just a straight guy, and now it can be anyone. It can be a straight woman, it can be um. And they do more

than the hair and the makeup and the house. They really help the person to kind of re examine their lives and think about their priorities in a new way. It's it's much deeper than just a kind of a makeover show. Definitely, and in many ways, I think why this show has resonated so much at a time of huge divisions in this country. It is really, I think, bridging the cultural divide and showing what we all have in common rather than what is tearing us apart. And

how refreshing is that? Yeah, Verry, Yes, so we talked with Jonathan about everything from what it was like growing up in a small town Quincy, Illinois, where he was the only male cheerleader, to the experience of filming Queer I and some very conservative places in Georgia, to his hit podcast, which is called Getting Curious. We also asked Jonathan for a few makeover suggestions for Brian spoiler alert,

I'm perfect. He didn't have too many. But enough about us, people, Let's get back to our guest, j b n Or Jonathan Van Ness, one of the shining stars of Queer I, one of my new favorite shows. So hold onto your hats, people, this is going to be a doozy. Should I call you Jonathan or j Van Jonathan? Obviously you can honestly either one of those. I don't care. The daughter calls

you j Vin. I'm going to call you Jonathan. She's such a fan and absolutely adores you, and she and her boyfriend watched the episode with Tom you know in Georgia. I guess so many of them are in Georgia, but the first episode and they had they had the eyemask on recommended and they were watching it wearing the eye mask. I love that, you know, and I like I said, such an underrated beauty to all it really is. She's so anti inflammatory and she's so affordable, which is great.

You know, I'm asking man, no, just like literal ice and little ice. Yes, have gotten into recently a cold rinse at the end of the show. It's great. It's good for your skin. You've been I don't. I always did that. It's good for your hair and your hair folical right. Yet well, it steals down your cuticle, so it makes it more didn't know, increases blood flow. It was a little shocking at first, but now I kind of like it. Befo and honey, oh my god, thank you.

We're going to talk about Brian in a minute, but at first I want I want to get to that first question. When you were growing up in Quincy, Illinois, what was your first inkling that you know what, I'm gay and I'm cool with that morgeous question. I think it was it must have been a both Lex commercial

or like it must have been like an infomercial. Yes, I remember being like I remember seeing like an infomercial that was like for a both lex or both lex like machine, and my mom was in the room and I was like, mom, um, what am I going to get abdominals like that? Because like they like I just I loved an abdominal, honey. I was like, what is going on when you were looking at Christie Brinkley, I wasn't looking at Yes, I was like this this all

this muscle honey. And and I don't know if I was, but that could have just indicated sort of vanity not necessarily section, you know, No, I was no. I was like I was curious about that. I was like my curious. And then I also feel like I was pretty clear by like kindergarten that like I was obsessed with Miss Universe. I wanted to watch Miss America Like I was like that, Like there was just like a really cute girl on Barney that had this little fringe. I was obsessed with

her fringe. But then the other little boys that I was in kindergarten with, like I definitely just wanted to push them down and then run away like you're the youngest of four yeah, and and and how did your parents react to your dannus early on? I think my dad was very very troubled by it, very very worried

by it. Like I would play a lot of dress up with my cousins at their house, and I remember him like walking in on me in this like fierce velvet evening gown with like a big puffy gold sleeve, and he like had a literal like nervous break like he was like like it was it was it was like five yeah, I mean it was like and then

I couldn't play dress up after that. But then my aunt would like kind of still like sneak me to play dress up, but we really had to like cushion the potential arrival times of my dad, you know, nothing to extravagant if I really need to get out of it in a hurry. So did that make you feel shame? Absolutely as as a little boy, for sure, But then how did you how did you deal with that? Aunt was a big factor, you know, my aunt, My aunt least is amazing. My mom was amazing, and even my

dad was amazing. I think that because also I think one thing that you have to remember about the early nineties late eighties having a flamboyantly gay son, there was obviously a lot of fear of like HIV AIDS, Like no one knew like what that disease is going to grow into, Like what was really going on with at a time. And so I remember in a very young age my dad being like like he was so worried about HIV AIDS. But like by the time I was like, you know, like eleven or like twelve, like very like,

there's so much fear on that. I mean, people had been seeing people like just dropping like flies. It was like literally an epidemic like in this country, like in front of people's faces. So I think that that's actually an important thing to point out, you know, I was thinking about like all the attention even though it wasn't because he was gay. But remember Ryan White, Yes, Ryan

White funding, he's so influential with with um magic. But Ryan White specifically did so much to raise awareness and funding. Because I mean, one thing that really people really don't realize, and this is insane. Ronald Reagan was the president in this country for eight years and over a hundred thousand people died a Americans died before he even uttered HIV AIDS, which wasn't until seven And then this current president eulogize as this president and all these people think that you know,

Ronald Reagan was just like amazing man. He presided over one of the most intense, I mean, the worst health epidemic in this country's history, and because of the people that were being affected by it, did not move a muscle, And in two thousand and eighteen, an entire party still looks back at him as he is, like he's the model of a good president. I cannot think of two people who were more falsely looked up to than the Reagans, really really, really bad. Do you think he did anything

that was admirable at all? Um? You know, maybe like economically people can make a case for that, but I think, you know, especially when you think of their relationship that they had with um Rock Hudson or was it Rock Hudson the whole thing, and that personal pleaded Nancy Reagan and she like, I mean it's really very heartless, like how they treated a whole gate community of people that were dying before people's eyes and being very vocal about it.

And I mean, they really hit administration, like worked tirelessly against HIV research. It's interesting that there wasn't actually even more outrage on the part of the media or even like as me as a gay man, as a thirty one year old game and every time I have to hear a Republican senator or or the president or anyone really praised the Trump administration. I think that's one thing that we really look over, is what what has administration did to this country and what has administration did to

the health of this country. Yes, it's so interesting as people deify Ronald Reagan, it's not as good word. It's not as though they didn't know because Ronald and Nancy Reagan, of course lived in l a And had lots of gay friends and a number of people Nancy Reagan was close to we're actually dying this illness, and it wasn't she Wasn't she influential though in getting her husband to recognize AIDS. I mean, finally, maybe she was, but I don't think that. I actually don't know. That's a subject

of some debate in controversy. And even if she was, that wasn't until seven like this was going on, and in America by like eighty one, it was like a known thing where he was president. I know that you've gotten very political, or perhaps you've always been very always now, which is great, and we're going to talk about the current state of affairs in a moment. But the Ravens on fire. First, I just want to talk to you

first about sort of so growing up. So you're you said eventually your dad was very accepting, but you never really quote unquote came out. You were sort of always out. Yeah, yeah, I never. Well, I think I started answering yes to the question by the time I was in fifth sixth grade. And what was that like, because again, this was way before there were lgbt Q clubs in high schools all across America that this generation is incredibly open, so that

must have been really hard. There were there was a lot of like really terrifying moments, Like Matthew Shepard was a time when I was really really I know the Shepherd's very well, and I covered that story. Yeah, I mean I remember when Matthew Shephard was killed. And should we just mention for people who don't remember, Matthew Shepherd was a young gay man in Wyoming who was brutally murder brutally murder beaten to death and strung up like

a scarecrow. And it lured out of like like he it was really like he was lured into the situation. It was. It was really one of the most evil craven disgusting as It's when I learned the phrase hate crime. Actually that's when it sort of infected exactly. But people would say to me as a you know, so I was ten by the time I was in like six and seventh grade, like that was a very common thing to be like, you know, you just like you deserve to be Matthew Shepherd, and like that was the thing

that people would type. That was the people that people would say he was used as like a people would say that out loud to you. Yeah, I mean I couldn't take like five steps in junior high school without someone like, you know, just saying faggot, screaming faggot, putting their hands on me. Yeah, I mean it was like very, very scary. But I always had like a really tight

circle of friends. Is going to say, you must have, on the other hand, been incredibly popular because you're so carefus in that everyone knew me because I stuck out like a sore thumb. But I had like four friends, and those friends like always like amazing personalities, like very supportive. Like my best friend Emily. It was really close with her in sixth grade. I still post about her a lot. We do stand up together. She was really important to

me growing up. She's probably the most important person to be growing up out. So were they quote unquote outcasts, Like you know, my friends always had like a way of like I had this other friend, Kim, who was like the prettiest girl, Like she's like the prettiest girl in junior high in high school, and so we were really Kim, Yes, so we were good friends. So she kind of like she was kind of in there, and

like Emily was kind of in there. And also people who used to not make fun of me used to remember being called stuck up a lot in in junior high in high school. And I think that's because I had such a like my chest was always out like my child much confidence. Yeah, like my chin was always up. Like I think I've always been able to master the art of like faking it till you make it, like even if you are not feeling it, like I can

at least convince like other people that I am. I really admire the fact that you just like embraced who you were at a very young age, when people are so insecure and doubting themselves and kind of figuring themselves out. You were the only male cheerleader at your high school, and you were kind of loud and proud about it. Yeah, and I didn't have another way. How did this confidence

survive all of the bullying and insults? I mean, I think if I were in your shoes, it would have just I don't know whether it would have literally killed me, but I would have been certainly very insecure. I'm a very passionate person. So like the Today Show, for and since every morning, like there's like little pockets of joy that I was just like obsessed with. Like I love the news, I love to read, I love pop tarts, I love how to donuts, I love figure skating, I

love gymnastics, I love to read. Like there's just so many things that I love to do with my time that like I also, in eighth grade, I made this like huge post it countdown thing with like the number of days so I would graduate high school based off if I graduated in my senior year, which I end up graduating a year early. So I always knew that like eventually I would get out of there and like it would be it would be better. You knew it

gets better before they did the campaign. It gets better. Yes, it's like you just gotta get out of here. Girl. It must have been your parents to helping you kind of Definitely my mom, like my mom like is you know, I think we had like a lot of very like you know, strain times as a teenager. But she definitely like has always been supportive and given me, like given me the room to be myself. You know, Yeah, she

gave you room to even make mistakes for sure. Um. I did this like interpretive like lyrical dance in my sixth grade talent show to this like ghost track from like Jule's album, and I like and I just that video and I like, I actually dread it. It's going to come out somebody. I know someone has a video of it. But I like did this like hand design costume with this like gigantic like it was like a movie.

It was actually very similar to the sweatshirt dress, but it was a T shirt and it had like a glitterpin um question mark on the front and then an upside down question mark on the back. You know. Because I just started taking Spanish it was sixth grade, I was like, yes, queen, I like I glittered decorated it myself. And my mom was like, I remember after I made the talent, you, honey, because everyone tried out for the talent.

It was very major. And so when I made it, my mom was like, if you do this, like you will never like this will always be like your kind of thing and like you'll never like escape it really and she's like, I'm gonna be there, like I want you to do whatever makes you happy, but I just want you to really be sure. And I was like, fuck you bitch, I'm doing it like it's gonna be fierce,

like you will love it. I I hate you for like even down to be like my Arabesque is gorgeous in the opening in the opening position, amzing tuney, it was amazing. I was, I mean, well, actually I remember when I actually did Sunshine. It was my little miss Sunshine.

But when I did see video the first one, I was like, oh, like in my head, I was really giving you so much more, Christie, I'm a Gucci real in this, Like the jumps were higher, the roles were tighter, the leaves were much less bet legged um, but in my head it felt great. It felt great. Now did your dad show up for them? Yeah? Yeah, I think

my dad and I set that there. I had a very cool like co parenting, like my mom and dad, Like they got divorced and I was young, but they really co parented like very much with my stepdad, Steve, who was amazing. Um, so I got very lucky with like my parents like divorced very well, Like you were super lucky. I think in so many ways in terms of your family situation. What about your siblings, I'm just curious how they're saying and good and fun. Yeah, they're

really reproducing a lot and very well. They Actually, my one brother just moved to this other town in Illinois, Like I know the name of it, but for some reason, I feel weird about saying it. I'm like, I don't want everyone to know where my brother lives. I don't know what that's okay, do you know what else it is? It's like sometimes like I'll randomly be like Kim Kardashian got robbed in Paris, like stopp telling so much about

where your family lives. Like even though like they don't have fierce jewels, like they really would be like a raft four or like a car, you know, um, maybe some nice TV's like some you know, like a nice flat screen, but not not Actually he lives in Porious. That's gorgeous, and going to wonder how queer Eyes playing in Peoria. Yeah, so obviously Quincy, Illinois, but he lives there. And then, but I have I have eight nieces and nephews,

a lot of children. I'm really excited for them to all be like old enough for me to be like, you know, put on your shoes and let's go to a movie. I can't deal with kids when they're so little, like it. It really really stresses me out. Yeah, I I understand that I like kids, get a little. I do not like newborns, and I really like them when they're shoes yeah sixteen. No, No, I like them when you can kind of interact with them and they're not just sort of blobs. Sister Kiki loves newborns and I've

just she said they're like hot water bottles. But I have just anyway, So obviously, Quincy, Illinois, you were too big for that town, clearly, even though you probably have great feelings towards it because of your relatively happy child. But then you went to Arizona to move on. Yes, yes, I I left Quincy as soon as my little gay

feat could take me, and I went to Tucson. I went to school there, but you know, really I always wanted to do hair, and so I think I really was just kind of doing that to appease the famm. You didn't want to go to college, No, but you're so smart, I'm surprised. Well, well, I did want to go to college because I wanted to get out of Quincy. But like this, this is the kind of college tude. And it was I signed up for astronomy because I thought it was a sterology and so like I was like, wait,

where is the aries, where is the chart? Where is like Professor McGonagall, where is Like I don't I was just like wanting more like a Harry Potter experience. And Arizona, well just you know, I just want to college. You this like magical cute time. I didn't realize that you had to like work so hard, Like it's hard. College is like literally hard. You know, I'm gonna put that on a pillow. I don't think he's realized how hard it is to like self discipline. And so you stayed

there only for a semester. I got a one point seven. It was dropped out after one semester. Yeah, because I only got one point seven, so I got kicked off the cheer squad. And then I told I was like i'd like to my mother. I was like, oh, I tell you did great. It was like I got a three point two, it's great. Great, just give me a

plane ticketogo back, it's great. And then they found out that I got like the one seven, and I wasn't really cheering anymore then, and I didn't really have to talk going to school and I already like signed up for it and stuff, but I just had to start paying for it at that point. And then I went for like two weeks and I was like like I hate it. And so then I was like, you know, just take a little break. I don't go back in

two weeks. I'll catch back up. It'll be fine. That never works, Like I feel like that's a recipe for just not finishing. I agree. I agree. So then you decided you were going to go full throttle into being a hairdresser, and I went. I did the fasts around, I got the gorgeous grant. I got the because like my family was like, good luck queen, and I was like great, So I um so I did like the I got some help and I didn't. I went to school and I went to the Beda Institute Minneapolis, and

you know, I really instantly kind of loved it. And you've really made made a career for yourself, not only in hair dressing, but in podcasting and doing a lot of other stuff. Jonathan, before you even got involved in Queer Eye, yeah, I was working towards. I didn't know like what I was working towards. But once I did Gay of Thrones, I was like, oh my god, this is so fun. Like I love creating, I love learning, I love like entertaining. We should talk about Gay of

Thrones for people who don't know. My god, it's kind of a serendipitous story. Yes it is, It really is. It is my my very good friend who just released an amazing book called Feminasty. Her name is Aaron Gibson. She was a directorate it Funnier Die, and she was a client of the woman who I worked for it my first salon in l A. We became really good friends because I was like doing her haircut. Because it's an assistant, you're not really supposed to like take on clients.

But she was never going to pay those prices for color at the time, so like I just kind of like, I'll just like come to your house and do it. Well, we'll be top secret color friends. So we did that for like four years, and then in two thousand and twelve, I just moved back to California and she was do you watch a Game of Thrones? I was like, honey, like that one little evil baby boy in his sash and he does all this to this person. And we were doing a whole Yeah, I did a whole thing.

And then she was like, we should do that for Funny or Die, like this is a show. Yeah, And so she really in my chair, like she created this this concept sold it to Funny or Die. It was originally supposed to be like one episode, but that episode that we did had such a reaction it you know five years later too, I mean, nominations later. We're crazy.

How serendipitous is that? So it really is crazy. I also think that, like I think part of the reason that this even happened to me universally is that, like I definitely worked really hard, like once gay Thrones happened, Like I don't think I ever like turned down a job. I maintain clients or clienteles and like l A Arizona St. Louis, Like, I literally have worked like seven days a week for like years and years too, so are you still doing hair? So now I don't do here as much as I did.

It was like weird. I was really really trying it. Up until April. I was still doing it like three and four days a week because I loved my clients and I want to keep doing it. But then it

was like, honey, this opportunity doesn't happen that often. So like, and you're my assistant had been with me for two and a half years, so something, Melissa fly if you don't feel comfortable like with that client, like you know, not comb with that highlight yet, give it to Monique, my business partner, who can cut herself out of a like do she knew any haircut any time? Like with hair hands side behind her or handsand bite her. But she's amazing so um so yeah, So it's like I'm

just gonna I'm gonna take this opportunity. I'm gonna run with it. So I'm really only doing here like once a month. You know, this is so funny because I was worried we're doing this on a Saturday morning, and I thought, oh gosh, what if Jonathan's tired and low energy and such a morning person. Fantastic, Yeah, I'm such a morning person. Are you also kind of an evening person? After like ninety or ten, I'm really tired and rest assured that if you're seeing me after nine thirty or ten,

like I am really faking it. I would much rather be home. I really want to be on my couch with my cat, like I would a soon to be like seventy thousand cats because as soon as I get back to Kansas City on Tuesday from the Emmy's like, I'm going straight there. He means society, and I'm like

adopting seventeen thousand cats as many pass as they have. Yes, And I'm so sorry, it's okay, but my grandparents literally had a black tea cup poodle for thirty years named JP because like when one would die, they would like go get like they would get the next one ready, like so if one died on Friday, they'd have like

a new one by like Monday. And I remember morning period. No, And I just feel like I'm right and that I'm not follower from the block, like I need to shove as many black kittens with cute personalities like into the bug sized hole in my gay heart. There's I need more kittens. And also my little Harry, Larry is lonely, so I really cannot wait to my other cat, my surviving baby cat. He literally is like pacing the edges of my apartment like scream youwing, like he's never done that.

He literally knows it's so weird. That's but as soon as I get to like eleven new kittens, I'm gonna stop being so sat Okay, good, all right, time for a quick break. I'm exhausted. People will be right back with Jonathan van Ness. And now back to our conversation with the one and only j Vin and Jonathan van Ess.

Let's change the subject because I want to talk about queer I mean, then later I want to talk about your podcast because I think it's was so smart of you to do that too, and all all roads seem to lead to this incredible opportunity that you're you're having right now. First of all, I love the show, Thank you, I really do. And I love all of you for different reasons. And I think the show has so much heart and it's so seemingly authentic obviously. I think actually

the editing is really fun. Rudos who however, does that and kind of does those interstitials people dancing or doing fun things or you know, speeding up the clouds. I

think she's really well done. Show runner. One of our executive producers and show runner, her name is Jennifer Lane, and she she has so many of the qualities that my stepdad had that like made me the best version of myself in relationship with him, and I feel like she does that to like she really lets us like all be ourselves, but she just creates an environment for us to like really connect and care and be present and be passionate because she's really passionate and often people

behind the scenes and Ark really is though, like so truly incredible, Like none of the five of us would be able to have the impact that we have without the people that work so hard to like to get us there. And it has been such a village that has created this and I do really feel like it's it is authentic. I feel like what you see on the show is really how it is. I Mean there's really never a time where it's like, oh, like we love that, but can you be more emotional or like that.

Never we never do that. I almost can never think of a time where we shoot something twice. So even if if someone missed something or an angle is wrong or something, it's like they'll just scrap that and you don't figure it out. Yeah, just like move on it. So it really it feels like a very organic experience making the show, which is which I love. And for people who haven't seen the show, they may have heard of the first iteration of this Queer Eye for the

straight up. This new version is just called Queer Eye because it's for everyone. It's not you're not just working on straight guys. What do you think are the big differences between that older version of the show and this one. I mean, I remember in one episode somebody said the first Queer Eye was about tolerance and this is about acceptance.

I think that that speaks to where the community has come from two thousand and three through seven to now, because like two thousand and three to seven was like the age of Doma. It was like um defense the Marriage Act. It was very much like you know, I like to be in the same room with you, I just don't agree with your lifestyle like you should. Maybe have all the rights that I do as a hetero person in a in a married relationship, but maybe not

all the same ones. And you definitely shouldn't call it marriage because she's like a sacred sanctimony. So like that was the age that we were in. Then it was like a majority support for banning gay marriage. And at that time, yeah, and so that was about like that's where that came from. And and now I think that the community is much more like you will see me as a far there, you will see me as a husband,

you will like it's just there. It's like, go fuck your tolerance because like I will be here all the way. That isn't as gentle as it sounds, you know, the tons versus acceptance, but that's how I imagine it. It's you have to see me as a whole person now. And I think that the five original you know cast members are queer, I like, had all of those same beautiful, multifaceted dimensions to their to themselves, and it's nothing that they weren't able to bring to the table. I'm sure

that they did bring it to the table. But a Bravo network in two thousand and three through seven is very different. From like the freedom that Netflix in two thousand and eighteen is going to give you. And and also you know, crafting a show for an American audience of two thousand and three through seven to an international audience of like a hundred and ten countries with a hundred ninety members, it was back then more of a curiosity too, you know. And we're more comfortable, Yes, I

think people are more comfortable. We actually think your gayness, while it's a part of the show, it's in a way it's it's really not about five days guys, it's about five guys. Yeah, Bobby says that. I think it's really so true because to me, the show is so much more about like human connection, and it is. And also like there's been so many times where I've learned

stuff from people, like lots of stuff. Because also I think the audiences have come and have come so much farther since two thousand and three to seven from now, like audiences like especially like in my age box, you know, of like four to like thirty five, Like no one is going to buy an expert shoving down something in their throat that like they know to not be authentic,

you know what I mean? Talk about that, because I just wondered if in some of these very small conservative towns, if people don't give you all a little bit of a hard time, or if there's not a resistance the descending on there for me personally because of what I mentioned earlier, Like I come from a place where, like I'm not used to walking five like to this day, if someone says fag, I turned my head, like I think, like I'm like someone's coming up behind me, someone's talking

to me, Like I I still will answer to that. So like even if one like does like throw us a bunch of shade or is like being crazy or hard to work with, like I am so used to it, it doesn't move a hair on my head. Does that ever happen? I mean it struck me. But also no, like none of the heroes and none of the people and their families like that you call them heroes. Yeah, well because I think that that. I mean, I didn't

coin that phrase in at first. I think, and I think that a lot of people are like like when you say that, like an iver, it's like why, But I think it's like it kind of just speaks to the bread of the show, which is like people are

all heroes. Like we do heroic stuff every day, like the fact that like we were like about of bed with our clothes on and like just like putting one ft in front of the other, Like it's heroic for what so many people have gone through, go through, have been through on a daily basis, Like even just like having lost my cat, Like that is so hard, Like people go through so much really devastating stuff, and I mean losing parents, using lovers, like you know, like that

German cyclist like like just who like she was like she won Golden London, she won Golden Rio, and she like severed her back in a training accident like two days ago, and she's like now my arms are my legs and she's like people are so heroic like all the time. So I think why not call people here?

Is like I not celebrate the things that you think that you're supposed to pull up your bootstraps and just like ho hum through life, Like why not celebrate like what we've been on the person I really one person I loved is Tom who was in the first episode because he was so open, which I really really appreciate really, you know, and and willing to have this dialogue, and I think that is what speaks to the heart and

soul of this show. As I said, I think the gayness kind of falls away, but what I think gets front and center is bridging these cultural divides and these these tribalistic tendencies that we have and really in a way that's not so hitting you over the head or luxury or preachy, just kind of getting this kind of dialogue out there. Whether it's Bobby talking about growing up in an evangelical church or Tom being honest about how

he felt about homosexuality. You know, those are the moments that really strike me and I think, wow, this is really achieving something you don't see many instances when people like the five of you are talking to people like Tom or the guy with six kids with the house that was just such a nightmare. But with the darling wife who loved her husband so much anyway, I think to me, that is the secret sauce of the show.

For the African American lady at the beginning of with Tammy, who missed Tammy, and this was just alluded to a little bit in that episode that she was very hostile toward her gay son at first, and that was perhaps what helped drive him out of that town, and then he came back and they reconciled, and so there is a little more subtlety and awareness of people's flaws and prejudices. And Skylar, you know, Tam was very open about feeling slightly ignorant about the trans community and is such a

fearless soldier and advocate and just strong, amazing man. Skylar. I love him so much, and I love Mama Tammy so much. And in fact, Gajorge just like going through this like Corey Rock thing right now, because like this big rock company's about to Corey Engage Georgia and they have this issue. And I noticed that's a lot in Atlanta actually, and I'm really hosted hoping that C. C Abrahams wins governorship there and can you know, kind of

correct this. And I think that a lot of states that have one large city, like you know, whether it's Chicago and Illinois or Atlanta and Georgia and New York City and New York those states have so much adject poverty and lack of essential normal basic materials because of the way that state legislatures are set up to like really kind of like overprovide for the bigger population centers. And I mean it just feels like Javins a listening

tour for presidential bid. Well well, I mean, I mean I never would, I never, ever in a million years ago into politics, but I do. I'm more of a I'm more of a recapper and more of a I

have too many skeletons, honey, um don't. By the way, per the point you mentioned, in these small towns in rural areas, people vote overwhelmingly for less government, for conservatives, and they do it mainly because of cultural issues, not economic ones, or if they have an economic vent, they believe that the government just always going to fail them. And do you think that the show puts sort of two positive a gloss on people's real views on these

social issues. I mean, one of the things that really led to the election of Donald Trump was just overwhelming vote share in small towns in rural areas, largely driven

by discomfort with the way America is changing. Well, I don't know, people that voted for Donald Trump were more driven to vote for him because of the way that America is changing versus the overwhelmingly misogynistic, sexist coverage at Hillary Clinton endured for the last twenties nine years, like of my whole life, Like she's in so much positive things that were like so vehemently covered by the media,

and like really so she was so demonized. And I also noticed that in Kansas City, like the way that female politicians are demonized and covered not only by the media but also their political opponents is very starkly contrasted by when two men run against each other. What men will bring up again women is much deeper and much more sinister and much more cutting than what men bring up against them. And so so yeah, I don't think

that that the show put too much gloss. And I think that at some point, when tribalistic tendencies have come so much into play and is really causing such a divide in this country, at some point you have to have an entry point into a conversation to bridge those divides. And when CNN and Fox News is so polarized and is really writing so much for headline and for clickbait and not about really educating people, are really trying to

teach people to critically think, that's an issue. So I think that, yeah, I don't think that where I put too much of a glossy thing on. And also I think it's important to remember that a lot of the people that voted for Trump, like I think the Hillary was a little bit correct, and some of them are deplorable in the sense that they're racist, sexist, misogynists, causinophobic.

There's also a lot of really good people like Tom who I would assume would vote for Trump that are misogynistic, aren't sexist, aren't sinophobic, are actually good people who have really been left behind and don't have a way to critically think or figure out what their new role in this new technology g is, you know, because coal mines are closing and now it's more tech and and these people have legitimate needs and concerns and they don't know

how They literally don't know, and they've completely lost faith, completely lost faith, and people have and and also people have given up on them because in the media and in the Republican parties, like when you see these ads, you would think that like Clara McCaskill is ushering in, like isis into the country to like take the guns from everyone. I mean, it is so fearmongery and so crazy and just so far out of base of like

what is really going on. I mean, Clara mcaskill has been a really good center for the state of Missouri. She's worked really hard for people in rural community, she's worked really hard for disadvantaged people. And the way that she's portrayed in these in political as I've really noticed in Kansas City. It's crazy the extremes I think have taken over, you know, And I think it's also dangerous to generalize about Trump voters in the first place. I

think Jonathan makes a really good point. You cannot say this whole swath of people voted for him be because of X. No, absolutely not, and al so I then do suck like like the deplorable thing, Like there was a piece of that that was true. But any time you're making like huge, gigantic, blaken statements, I do think that it's like like a little bit of an ish but also to the point of like, did quere I put two glossy of a cast on conservative people in

rural areas? I don't think so, No, because what are you gonna do, Like have the five of us come to someone who's like extremely homophobic and like and be like have us being like unsafe situation like you're obviously not gonna have us like make over someone who's like

unsafe for us. Do you think they put on their best face and that some of it belied some of the undercurrents of racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia maybe with people who were like in locales where we were like like the one with Joe Gawa where we were doing that like stand up thing at that like rotary club sort of place, like when we were actually there, like I didn't realize like how crazily people were looking at me, Like it didn't occur to me at all, Like I

there's one when you watched the EPID, So yeah, then I was like, holy sh it, like that guy was really being an asshole and there was there was a lot of stuff going on, but it didn't mean because, like I said, it goes over my head, like I'm too busy being fabulous to notice. But I like that every time you say something like that, I'm like, I'm putting that on a T shirt. Yeah, so um, you know. And also I think that most people, most people are

are good at heart. I think most people are. I do think that media today is dividing people because you do have an alternative universe depending on where you're getting your news and information totally, and then it just feeds your sort of worst impulses to to you know, as as President Obama would say, manufactured Outragel. Yes, yes, I think Fox and CNN are the biggest defenders because when I watched about MSNBC don't watch it, so I don't know, sorry about it, Rachel. I love your I just never

had that channel. Don't care. Um, But as far as an End and Fox, it's over and over and over and over and over. It's the exact same thing. And I'm like, with all of your money and all of your resources, like, can you not go to Yemen? What about the collar outbreak of problem Jonathan? When they start covering those things, ratings go down because people want to watch the reality show and it's far more expensive to cover. I mean, you get better, but can't you give me?

But can I get moments? Can't we diversify a little bit, like can't we move a couple doors down? It was interesting because I was talking to a friend of mine who works at MSNBC, and I said, oh gosh, there must have been some relief about the tie rescue because at least it was a moment to depart from Trump, and she said, we didn't even cover that. So I

think it's become so just political something. But at some point, like doesn't someone need to be the bigger person and take the hit and see if people actually choose a better source it's all about. But wouldn't that be interesting though, if someone could take, like, give me like a Reiter's or an NPR moment but in a capitalized network and see if that works. No one's ever tried, like I

think probably they have. Date Line kind of was like a moment because I had to say Solidette O'Brien's coverage of that Jonestown documentary in like two thousand and eleven. I still think about it so good. So I mean I do think that uh Fox, I wouldn't know enough about to say this, and I actually would. I think I could also go out and elem enough to say that is not they never do good stuff, But CNN does do good stuff sometimes. I mean, they do do

good investigative journalism. Sometimes. I do feel like that Solid had special sheet brings the heat with CNN, and I love that. Also, Sanja Gupta, we love him, but I do think just the way that it's laid out. I think that the whole like ratings machine and how that relates to news and what that's doing to our country.

It's like if you if CNN is gonna sit and call Donald Trump like not fit for presidency and not and you know, not patriotic, It's like, what is because, like my set had always said, if you're pointing at someone calling them something like, you've got three fingers pointing back at you. So I think that we all have a hand in this, and we all could make this a little bit cuter. Can we talk about this medium for a second? Podcasting? So you do another podcast addition, yes,

called Getting Curious is a web series? People cannot but also to you though, honey, people do that all the time. People like don't know what the things are. A web series, it's like a video on the internet that's a series of videos. And then a podcast is when we're here with these gorgeous no. But it's like, but lots of people do. But tomato to motto, Yeah, it's fine, it's fine. Tell me a little bit about how you got into podcasting, what you think of the medium, and sort of what

the point of your show is. So I was inspired by Aaron Gibson and Brian's Happy because they have another amazing podcast called Throwing Shade. That was the first podcast that I ever listened to it. I was like, fun, I got lucky enough to assist for this photo shoot that any Leeboitz did and like a long time ago with an old boss of mine, and she what I learned from her that was so interesting because when you think of like photography and fashion print, it's a very curated,

very produced world. Her whole phase that she was at least going through then was that like if anything even felt like it was bordering onto produced or just to like for she was like, oh, I hate to get away from you, like hated it, like that hair is too done, that shirt's too fucking done, Like it's all too done. She hated at like it just had to

be very like raw and real. And I loved that about her, So Annie, yeah, because that's so unusual if you look at her Vanity Farewell and that phase though that she was going through like this like two thousand and eleven phase, it just needed and even if it does turn out looking really produced, like she she needed the set to feel like just very like undone, like having been there, it made sense, I guess as someone who wasn't on the said, I can see how that

wouldn't make sense. But the point is that in getting curious and I started doing that, I was like, I don't want any sort of like reoccurring segment. I don't want any sort of like bells and whistles. I just want like the same song to start every time, and then me and the same like me and an expert to talk thirty minutes sometimes works. I can't stop talking to learn about something. And I just didn't want anything like to produce. I just wanted like a natural little combo.

Tell me about some of the episodes. I know you did one on the Middle East, for example, I've done two in the Middle East with the professor of Islamic History from U C. L A. His name is Dr James Kelvin. I love him so much. He's so smart. He um, he's lived it down. Yeah, he broke it down.

He continues to break it down. He's someone who I will definitely have back because he has such a wealth of knowledge and and I think that Middle East politics and Middle East history is so confusing for like a gay kid from Quincy, Illinois, Like, how do you even break all that down? So I've done one on like psychobiological Approach to couples therapy, which is short for packed, which is invented by stand tack In. So I interviewed him. He's incredible making up for dropping out of I am.

But but here's the thing. I can't fake interest in that I'm not interested in. So you take a topic that you're really interested in, and you figure out who the right person to talk to that and you just talk to them. Yeah, and you try to learn as much as you can. And before I was a success, I used to have to like cold email like twenty and thirty professors of like anything. Yeah, like demologists, homologists,

that's what it is. It's fun now because it's like it's easier to produce now because now people know what it is, which is fun. Well, let's talk before we go about Brian, because I thought I'm gonna ask Jonathan to kind of if he had to make over Brian, what would would he even be? Honestly, I think you're such a handsome boy. You have very beautiful skin, You've got great hair. I love your outfit. I thought you

look great today. Really you wouldn't do anything you think of his hair and put some product in it a little bit. I also came curious if you had like a little bit more stubble, like I would have had like a little bit more like bad boy stubble. Like I wonder what stuff well I could I could grow it out for a couple like I feel like if you had like a few more days, like you'd be serving like a little bit of like David Muir, like real nous, you know what I mean? Like I have

to work out for about two years. I mean I would be curious to see what you look like if you're just like going to Whole Foods, Like what do you wear? If you're just like going to the grocery starch? Right? In that case, I would I want you to get if I could not to say the name of my podcast and sentence, but I would love to see you getting curious about like what's your athletisure? Look, what's your like comfy cashual? What if you ever want to go

play tennis or something? What would you wear? I don't actually like Jonathan to take a crack at my husband John He definitely could use a little fashion help. But I have to ask you about your your queer eye brethren. Oh god, yeah, I think a lot of people are fascinated by the whole crew. Yes, okay, so let's talk about Bobby. Bobby does more work than anyone. Let's face it, he does so much work. But he also has a team quintuple the size of anyone's, Like I don't have

like I don't have an assistant. I have this year. I for the first time, I have someone to help me because I'm doing like much larger transformations this time around. Um, I'm meaning much more into like color and stuff. But Bobby does do so much work. He and he is incredibly passionate and incredibly committed. But I really like him, No, I love him. He's when we got cast, when I first met him, he was someone who like just we

immediately We're really close. He knows every single, like dark secret about me, like like he like he knows everything about me. He's like one of the most trustworthy people I know. I love him. He's he's so funny, he's really really genuine. He's a really really hard worker. Like

I absolutely adore him. And his background is sort of similar to, well, our biggest beef is that Illinois people make fun of Missourians for driving, and Missourians make fun of well actually, really what it is is Missourians get made fun of by Illinoisans for the driving, and then Kansas people also make fun of Missourian people for their driving because everyone knows that universality, Missourians cannot drive. And um, and that's just for me coming from a border town,

like that's just you know, there's no shade there. It's just why can't Missourians because they don't have a driver's at program like your parents teach you how to drive? Seriously, Yes, all right, let's talk about it. The thing obsess with Tan Tan I love so much? Um, I like what to like? Should we introduce what these people do for

the clothing? Fashion? Guy Bobby is the home Tannon I is like main goal in each other's life is like his goal in my life is to teach me boundaries and my goal in his life is to take them all away. So you know, there's always like that gorgeous friendship. I love his hair. I love his hair so much, very particular about his hair, but I love him so much about it is that a natural gray or does he? Yes? You cannot buy that color in a body. I think

it's really pretty. My hair was so stunning. I'd like to should I Well, my mom and I grew hers out, and if you ever wanted to, because you're so light now, it wouldn't be because like my mom and I grew her color is the best decision we ever made. She looks amazing. She looks amazing with her strikes. I'm just afraid mine's going to be sort of nasty, you know, salt and pepper. Every time I mentioned it, all my

friends say, no, you'll look too old. I think silver hair is stunning, and I think that it's very like underrated. And can you make it like look whiter if it doesn't come, you can do a little. You can do like a semi permanent gloss. It's got like a violet base to counteract any yellow in it, to brighten it up as much as possible. All right, well, we'll discuss. But I also love your color the way that she's beautiful.

Thank you. All right, let's talk about Anthony. Love Anthony such a hard worker, a really really just true of rock and solid person, really rock and bod which one is Anthony. Anthony does the food. He's so funny, Like I'm like, give Anthony more to do than just teach a guy how to make guacama But you know what,

he gets a lot of black for that. But I think that it's like when you think about, you know, his vertical in my vertical, Like am I going to come in on a guy who's never used sunscreen before and give him like a light contour beat? Like am I going to show him how to conjure his face and how to you know, get like no, like you

have to meet people where they're at. I agree. So yeah, I think that they got a lot of undue flag for I mean a lot of these Tom the most Tomas didn't get yes, Like in the press, he got a lot of flak for his cooking skills. And like Tom literally was eating Cheetos and mountain Dew Margarita's every day for like a year. So like getting him to make guacamole was lacord on blue. Teaching him how to

cut an avocado was like that was epic for him. Yeah, I think it's probably big city slickers kind of Bilkaramoy. He's so handsome. Yeah, so handsome and really so empathetic and so smart and I'm really really caring and just you know, a really good guy. Like I cannot say enough good words about how I loved them. You guys have all made a big mark for each of your careers. Do you guys get competitive? Really? No? I think I think all of us really kind of operate by like

that law of abundance versus a law of scarcity. I don't think that like when any of us gets like something good that happens to us, I don't feel like any of the rest of us feel like that takes away an opportunity for the rest of us. So I really feel like we do operate like from a law of abundance space and it doesn't feel jealous at all. We were so happy for each other and like really, I mean like they come to a lot of my stand up shows, they post my like we post each

other's stuff. Like we're all really supportive and I really love each other. How is your stand up career? It's been so fun. I was when I first started doing it, I was like kind of coasting by on, like, oh my god, everyone loves you so much. From the show. You're like a new kid on the block, so you can kind of almost just get up here and heels and dance around and everyone will think it's funny. Complately, I'm more like, oh my god, like you got like this is an art, this is the craft. I gotta

get it together. I'm like, so I'm really like working on my act. I'm really it's funny and yeah, like clubs, stand up places and it's just fun. Like I it's a whole new medium, it's a whole new art. I feel like I haven't been this passionate about learning about something since, like I started doing hair. So it's really it's like a whole new medium for me to get into. And how are you learning about it? You take trial funny no trial and air um. I just I'm getting up.

I work a lot with my friend Kyle, who is coming on the tour with me, the Hotels dot Com tour, and she'll come to all of my all the comedy shows and we're just spitballing a lot with each other and working a lot with each other. It's just it's really fun and talking about your life and your life experiences and storyteller than a one joke one liner person, but I work in some good one liners throughout, but those are always pretty meta, like I don't really plan

those ones like you like you have today. Yeah. Well, I'm so happy for your success and thank you so much for doing this. It's really nice to meet you. And Katie is still a little upset that you don't want to make me over. You brought the heats that you look great. Thank you Jonathan. By the way, before we go, a quick footnote. The very next day, after we interviewed Jonathan van Ness Queer I took home three Emmy's. So congratulations j v N and to the entire Queer

Eye team, well done. That wraps up our show for today, folks. Thanks this week to Cody Ziegler in our l A Studio who helped us out with this recording and on a Saturday morning, I might add thank you Cody. Our usual thanks to our producer Gianna Palmer, our associate producer Nora Richie, and our engineer Jared O'Connell who mixed this episode. Thanks also to Katie's amazing, indefatigable assistant Bethams, and a warm welcome to Julia Lewis, who I always want to say,

Julia Lewis dried this. Julia Lewis, who is our great new digital content manager at Katie Currik Media, Mark Phillips at our theme music. Katie Kurrik and I are the show's executive producers. Find me on Twitter at Goldsmith b and Katie, meanwhile, is all over the social media's under the name Katie Currik and folks. That heads up next week's show and the one after we'll be slightly different.

We're gonna be trying out a documentary format for the first time to mark the tenure anniversary of my interviews within vice presidential candidates Sarah Palin and we should mention, Brian, you were a really important producer during the course of those interviews, so you've been putting up with me for a very long time. I can't believe it was ten years ago. Anyway, For this two part audio doc you and I spoke with many of the key players from

the two thousand eight campaign. Our goal with this series is to reconstruct what happened in front of the camera and behind the scenes, right all the palace intrigue that was going on at CBS News at the time, well not all of it, but we really wanted to explore, also, Brian, whether Sarah Palin's brand of politics, sort of fire brand brand of politics, helped pay the way for the politics of Donald Trump. Again, this one will be a two parter, so look out for it next week and the week after.

We'll talk to you then. Thanks everyone for listening. Thank you