Ina Garten: At Home With the Barefoot Contessa

from her own history. How is she able to pivot in her career too, of somebody who wrote nuclear policy right, Yeah, exactly, for somebody who worked for the Office of Management and Budget writing papers on nuclear energy to being the queen of cookery. It all began here in the Hampton's when she bought a little food store in West Hampton called Yes the Barefoot Contest, which was named after a movie

from the fifties with Ava Gardner. That's right. And then like twenty years later she pivoted to becoming a cookbook author and TV host. That's right. And uh, I know, I think is as warm and gracious in person as she appears on her television show and she has a very enviable life, don't you think, Brian, I envy it personally. So we spent a lot of time, actually the whole morning in her kitchen, talking to her about cooking, talking to her about Jeffrey, about her life and her career path.

And I think people can take some lessons from Aina about taking risks. And we talked to her employee, Ldy, who probably has the second best job on the planet. Ye, this is Iinah's assistant, and she has a really instructive story to tell about how you can kind of invent your own job. By the way, we spent most of our time with Ainah sitting at her kitchen table in joint a delicious breakfast. And so if you hear some

birds chirping or refrigerator humming, that's because we were there. Yeah, I think a little bluebird sort of perched on my shoulder at one point. You've been smelling the truffles even watching Cinderella too many times, find nickel for every time somebody accused me of that. Well, you're cooking with me, right, so we're gonna make I mean, I'd like to take something really obvious like scrambled eggs, and do it in a different way. So the two things that we're going

to do that are different. One is we're going to cook it the way the French do, very very very slowly over a very low flame, and what it makes is very custody scrambled eggs. Is that? What is that? How they do it? Well, they do it in a double boiler, but we can do it in a in a pan if we're really careful. And they use a ton of butter, Yeah that's except on this case, I'm gonna use truffle butter. It's butter that has white truffles in it, and I love truffles. You do like white ones?

So good? I love her things for you. There are people who are truffle haters. I don't understand that. My husband doesn't like do have that sort of Jim sucks kind of flavor? Doesn't never feel the same about trufal I ruined it for you, delicious, Jim suck. But there are these little pots of truffle butter that you can get there like eight dollars, but it's real truffle shavings in it. Yeah, that sounds delicious. Through your process for a second, how do you come up with the idea

for a recipe. I mean, how does it This is a good example, actually is I start with a remembered flavor and you know we don't remember scrambled eggs and um. And then I think, how can I do it differently so it has more flavor, and how can I do it so it's simpler. I just wanted to be something you think you're gonna like, but it's better than you remember. I know I have some go to in a recipes. For example, I love the pasta pasto salad with the

peas and the and the pine nuts. But when you say I just want to make something that I know is going to be delicious, what recipe do you do? Well? You know it's funny because I think about I mean, after eleven books, I've really I mean, I'm working on the eleventh now, you know. I think, well, I have have like a thousand recipes, so it must be I must be making a different thing all the time. And yet I go back to the same things that I know that I can nail. And what are the parmesan

chicken with a salad on top? I think it's in family style, Yeah, it's in family style. Um. One of the things that we make all the time. This is light. Yeah, we're wondering. How did you come to work with Aina U through harassment? Um. I was friends in college with someone who is the son my lawyer, Dinah's lawyer, and I wrote a letter. It was this year, my last spring of college, and I didn't know what I wanted to do, and so I wrote a letter saying, hi,

and I really want to come work for you. And I sort of thought I could do social media for of her. It seemed like a natural fit. And well what happened was it? I mean, probably once every ten years we might be looking for someone, and it just happened to the moment. And what I loved about Lydie was so, I mean before I even knew her, is that she didn't graduate from Boden and say I just want a job. She graduated from Boden and said I want to have my dream job and that's working for Aina.

And so she just kept harassing her friend Untilie he called his father and I said, well, how are you even going to get here? And she said, don't worry about it, I'll get there from Maine. And she showed up on her doorstep with an entire social media plan all laid out, and I just, I mean, we just felt. And then do you remember the final final straw was that I said, what what draws you crazy? In school? She said, my my roommates don't clean up the house,

the kitchen and the house. Why thought you was so hired? What her brown knows? There? It was there were twelve girls living in one house. I mean, it's it's in one kitchen. And I think it's really instructive story about how you can kind of create your own job. Yeah,

I mean, I mean you're listening for this job. And also the lessons I think people can take from what you did to going for it, being persistent, right, not taking no for an answer, and then being so prepared and not making the onus on Aina to figure out all your logistics and to come with the whole media

plan well played. Like, thank you. So all you college graduates out there who may be listening to our podcast, all two of you, my daughters, you should take take this seriously because I think it's a great example of finding your bliss. As they say, and here we are. My bliss is truffle scrambled eggs. Come with me. Okay, so, um, are you in charge of the recipe. So when we test a recipe, what we do is read every single word to make sure it's specific thicken, it's exactly the

right word. So okay, I read what was that's a medium um sautae pan? Right? Do you place some medium ten inch sautapan over? Like? Well? Ten inch is very helpful because I wouldn't know how big a medium sawta pana. Thank you. That's exactly right because you never know. And then you turn it on low heat. So is it two tablespoons or three? It says um? Two table spoons? Oh? No, one and a half tablespoons unsalted butter at room temperature.

Now why unsalted? I know? Um? Do you know? I think you can control the salt better if you start with unsalted butter and then add salt because different kinds of butter have different amount of salt and salt. You know, I think the two most important ingredients that anybody used, You're gonna tell me butter and salts. Third, the two most important ingredients in that cooking every single person has

in their house. Salt and pepper. They make all that you can taste, like chicken stock that has no salt in it tastes like dirty dishwater. You put salt in it, it tastes like full, rich vegetables and chicken and wonderful flavor. So that's a huge mistake that home cooks make all the time. They're afraid of salt. And this whole thing

about salt is totally different now. I mean, everybody thought that salt was bad for you, but it turns out too little salt has a higher incidence of heart attack and stroke, and too much salt has so apparently exactly by the way, I know, what I think is so exciting about cooking, and the little I I cook is all the delicious salts you can get. Now, someone introduced me Bobby Flay not to day dropped tolden salt. Yeah it is texture of its delicious. And also this one

I love. This is oh I have that you're doing? Isn't it's just do you have it? It's just a great hostess gift if you're coming to a Yeah, it sounds flour decent. It's really really good. Okay, who's in charge of cracking eggs? Will? Okay? That? So I need eight eggs? Eight eggs? How's that excellent. Now do you take the little white thing that's attached to the yolk off? My mom always did you know that little white stringy thing that is attacked attached to the yolk? You don't? Well,

now I don't have to you don't. You're free. That's true what it is. But we always took it off. Actually when do we both do it? Actually, one thing I do is I crack it here so you don't get chills with me. That's smart, she says. So the recipe says, in a large bowl, whisk together the eggs, half and half, one teaspoon of salt and a quarter teaspoon of pepper. Okay, so who's in charge of whisking? Good nice whisky? Brian, Thanks Katie. How a lot of

whisking practice. How much salt and one and a half teaspoons of salts on a quarter of pepper? I like having a recipe reader. So wow, that's a good amount of pepper. But it looks great. So you have to be careful when you are. When it comes to putting

butter in a pan, don't you wind it? Well? Sometimes you want to burn it if you want brown butter, which is burning waste is Um, it's a it's a great thing to use like in vegetables because it has that kind of like a little sort of burnt butter flavors, which is natty. It's nutty. That's exactly right. That's why it's called theistte, not not nutty butter. I think in

English it doesn't work. It was interesting and preparing for this show, I read that your mother had a kind of a dietetic background and you grew up which she was a dietitian, not being able to eat a lot of carbs or butter or where did you find that you did some research. My mother was obsessive about food, so we weren't let any carbs, we weren't let any butter.

We had margarine. Um, she just kind of got dinner on the table and I was wouldn't let you cook, She wouldn't let me cook, And and her idea of a great dessert was an apple. That just doesn't work. That's so funny. So is this the ultimate rebellion? It's the ultimate rebellion. I'm still working at my issues from my parents, but that's funny that that she just just and she felt like your job was to make good grades. To study and not to help in the kitchen, right exactly. Okay,

here we go. I'm just gonna pour it in. This is the eggs, including the show. I must have done that, No, that must have been me. That's how you know it's real eggs. There's a little crunch in it. So again, this is very very very low heat. I'm gonna let it just sit, okay until it just starts to heat up a little bit, until it's a little warm, and you'll see what happens in the meantime. What about don't we need a little brioche toast to put this on? Absolutely?

I think so. Just's sort of very similar to hollow, isn't it. It is waspy hollow. That's really great. So I'm just gonna do some slices, and then what we'll do is we'll put the eggs right on the brioche toast, will put some slices in the toaster. Let's see. So what I'm gonna do now is just as it's cooking, just sort of fold the bottom over the top, and then as it heats up a little bit. And in case you don't benefit of being here, which I assume

you don't, we're talking to you on the podcast. The eggs are just beginning to come together, but they're still mostly liquid. Was gonna say, you're cheering for the eggs. I'm rooting for the eggs. So are you stirring? Ye? Are you in charge of stirring? Sure? Just make sure that you get the eggs off the bottom of the pants. Yes, that's where they're going to tend to. Okay, And do you stir this constantly? Pretty much? A little bit? Yeah? Ok? And then I think the more you stir at, the

more slowly. Yeah, more slowly. It heats up. And because eggs are protein, and if you cook protein in a temperature, it tends to get tough. This is so interesting. I'm not going to ever make scramp And it's such a simple thing to do, and yet it really you wit you taste it, it just transforms. It just transforms it. And one of the things too, is to cook it until it's just undercooked, because it's gonna as it sits, it's going to continue to cook. You know, you've said

something very funny once. You said you can feel bad before you eat a cookie, you can feel bad after you eat a cookie. But nobody feels cookie, And I'm just curious, you know, since there's since people are so sort of health obsessed. Now, Aina, do you ever feel pressure to come up with the ways of cooking delicious things that aren't quite as rench. I do, and I mean I do anyway, because I don't think anybody wants

all rich things for dinner. So for example, last night, I did short ribs on a bed of um blue cheese grits for dinner, but then I did a coffee granita for dessert. So you balance things, you know, you want you want things to be crisp and fresh, and I made roasted broccolini, so it was so very simple vegetable. And you're doing really well. I'm seeing how interesting is it's really just starting to like cook a little bit

without actually big those big crumbles of scrambled eggs. And you know what, one thing I know I was going to bring up, you know, because I I'm sort of obsessed with I try to eat healthy and all that, and one of the things time about that, but one of the things that they've studies that they found is you're much more sated if you do have food if you eat some fat, because it makes you less hungry later, and so as opposed to an entire box of cookies.

So I start disgusting those low fat cookies have the real sugar, and they replace the fat with sugar. But I think that people don't need to be afraid necessarily of having some some rich food or some fat, as long as long as it's abound. Right. Okay, how's it? It's absolutely perfect. See how custody it is. Now, So the next thing I want to do is put in a tablespoon or two, depending on how we feel, so one or two tablespoons of truffle butter. Okay, it's just

I'm gonna have this. Isn't it good? Should we taste it? Make sure it's okay? Here, I want to make sure the truffle butter is all permeated in the eggs. Thank you. Make sure it's and the toast is almost ready. Okay, let's give this a try, Brian. Okay, when we come back, we're gonna sit at INA's kitchen table and enjoy the fruits of her well our labor, I guess. And now

back to our interview with Dinah Garden. So good, so good, it's so good, and it's just scrambled eggs, but it's done in a different way and a shall we sit him? It's almost risotto better and faster? Now would you put herbs on top of that? I do? Actually I am Why do you should mention it? Katie? I actually have some um chives? Because can I just say? I have serious garden empty? I'm looking garden. Oh my god. The first thing up in the spring is the chive. I'm

looking out on your garden. You have gosh how many rectangles out there? Like fifteen or six of gosh o twenty? And you what do you grow out there? In flowers? And every year it's different tomatoes, lots of tomatoes. I love cherry totos. That's so much. Shall we sit? Yes? Let's so. When I told people in that I was coming here, after everybody told me how jealous they were. The second thing everybody said was, well, you got to

ask about Jeffrey. Everybody's obsessed with Jeffrey and your relationship with Jeffrey and how you have this kind of perfect storybook marat Well. And we were coming through the airport in England and the guy checking passports in London um looked looked at his passport and he said, it's you. You're the one. He said. My wife is always saying, why can't you be more like Jeffrey Garten? That is

so funny. But you guys have a I mean, Jeffrey is still teaching at Yale right and I was the dean of the business school for ten years and he's been teaching for a bad ten or twelve. So is he So he's not here during the week, he's not. I mean, you know, he comes and goes, but usually he's night here during the week. Yeah, but seriously, is that the makes the heart grow? Far from New York during the week? So we you know, we see each other like Tuesday Wednesday night. So yeah, it's it's no,

that's not the secret. The secret is that you just take care of each other and you admire each other and support each other and and you get that back. You met him when you were a teenager and you were visiting your or at dartmoun was we did our homework. I want to apologize that people hear me chewing, I feel terrible if you weren't, if he went, I don't want to eat this. So how old were you? I was sixteen, I was fifteen. I was sixteen known at him and uh he came to he saw me walking

around the campus. Um, he said to somebody, his roommate, UM, I wonder who that girl is. Now. You have to understand, Dartmouth is all men at the time, so I was like the only girl walking around and that was much competition exactly. It wasn't like I was mac Fierce and walking around Dartmoun And six months later showed up at my doorstep, which is amazing that he remembered. And Uh, anyway, you and Jeffrey never had kids, And did you spend a lot of time with other people's kids or did

you just not have that desire so much? I mean we we didn't. We decided not to children. Um. I really appreciate that other people do, and we always have friends that have children that were close to But it just was a choice I made very early. A lot of my married friends who don't have children, or some

of them who don't have children. Um, children, right, yes, but but they also feel like I did a whole talk show on this when I had my my talk show about the kind of how society sort of treats couples who have decided not to have kids, and were you ever faced with that? Did people ever to kind of judge you at all? I never felt like people did that. People did. Um. I think the one thing that we missed is a lot of people's friends are

the parents of their kids friends. So we never had that connection with other people that I see a lot of that network that network exactly. UM. But no, I just I never felt judged by it. Maybe people did, but I didn't notice. But I really felt I feel that I would never have been able to have the life I've had. Um. And so it's a choice, you know, that was the choice I made, you said, saying that

really struck me. You were asked at some event, you know, what issues do you have in your marriage or how do you overcome the issues in your marriage? And you said, you know, we don't have dogs and cats and kids and things that make it messy. We don't have We don't actually because I mean we you know, we have respect for each other. And if Jeffrey and I disagree on something, he always agrees with me. I let that reminds me of a toast. Here's to you, here's to me,

And if we disagree, screw you heres to me. You can use that very ay, it's a very appropriate Easter Sunday, you can that. I also think one of the nice things about Jeffrey, among many nice things, is he really encouraged you to do what you love and totally some people know this, some people don't ee up. But I always find it fascinating that you actually were writing nuclear policy for the White House. It was for a period of time, so clearly you're a bit of a brainiac.

Now give that jump to anybody, But what what drew you to do that? And how did how did you land that job? I was really interested in science, and I had a job doing legislative work um in an Office of Management and Budget for two years, where all the legislation comes to you have to write up a paper for the president with you know, recommendation, whether he signs the legislation or not. UM. Scary that they give that to twenty five year olds, but that's what I did.

But I was really interested in science, So after two years I switched over to the science and technology area and they assigned nuclear energy budgets to me. No idea so much. It was really interesting and I really got a sense of what I wanted to do and what I didn't want to do, right because because and you didn't want to do that. You know, one of the things I, oh, this sounds so crazy, but the one of the things I was sure I wanted in my

next life. Because you had to get dressed up. I mean you had to wear silk blouses and heels and stock that the arrow when we wore little ties around our profession. It was such a that exactly, it was the seventies, that's exactly. I mean, women who wanted to be taken seriously, you know, got dressed up. And I thought, oh, I just want a job where I can wear sneakers, And here I am sneakers and actually usually I'm in my bedroom slippers. But even better, I'm decided to dress

up for us dressed. But finally you were like, you know what, I don't really love this. And Jeffrey said something, really, I think that transformed you. It totally transformed me. And he's always so encouraging. He said, I came home one day from I said, I just this isn't me, This isn't what I really want to do. And he said, pick something that you think would be fun. Pick something that would you know, don't worry about whether you make money.

Just pick something would be fun. If it's fun, you'll be really good at it if you love doing it. And I said, well, funny. She that I've seen this ad for a business for sale in the New York Times and it was a tiny specialty food store for sale in a place I've never been. And he said, let's go look at it. And that was in West Hampton's And when that was the Barefoot contest called the bare Contessa, but named after a movie with Ava Gardner.

It was named after there was a movie with Ava Gardner and the owner when she was a little girl that used to call it the Bear for Contessa because she was Italian. So she named the store of the Bear for Contessa. And you you went and saw it, and you get offered. You made an offer the next right then and there, and I walked into the store and they were baking cookies. I thought, I want to be here. And I made her a low offer, thinking, oh, she'll come back, we'll negotiate, we'll have time to think

about it. And um. She called me the next day in my office and said, thank you very much. I accept your offer, and I remember going, oh, ship, I was one of my boss's office and said, I think I just bought a food store. And you did that for how long? Eighteen years? Wow? A long time, which was fun, I mean. And and when I stopped doing that, I thought, I don't you know, I thought it was time to do something else. I've done that for a long time, and I thought it's really time to do

something else. But I just didn't know what it was there. And you just back up for a second in the chronology, how did you get excited about food and cooking? Because we heard that you grew up in a house where food was not special, and I think I was starving. I think I was always hungry. And you took this trip to France with Jeffrey. We went on a camping trip.

We had four months with nothing to do and no money, and we decided the only thing we could afford is a tent and sleeping bags, and so we took a four month trip to France. And I remember coming into in Normandy into a campsite and it was kind of late in the afternoon, and the woman who owned the camp site said, I just made I think it was Coco van for my husband or before or something like that, and would you like some for dinner. I was like yeah.

I remember thinking I need to know how to make this. And I came home and after this trip and we and I just budget the Chounts mastering the art of French cooking Wow, and started cooking while I was working in Washington. That's what I would do at night as cook and then I would have people over for dinner on the weekends. And I think that's why when I was doing nuclear energy during the day and cooking at night, and I thought, wait, this is crazy. I want to

do that. So that's how that's kind of how it started. I also thought it was interesting that when I know you were making a decision after eighteen years running and owning and cooking and baking the coconut cupcakes and still obsessed with at the Terrify Contessa. By the way, they were about the size of my head in cocakes, you decided, you know, I want to I want to do something else, or I want to transition into some other aspect of

what I'm doing. And you took a year off because someone said to you, can you figure out what you want to do? Next if you don't have time to really think about it, because I think many of us feel like you can't get another job unless you have a job is somehow you're less desirable. But that year off was really important to you. But you said it

was the hardest year of your life. It's the hardest year of my life because I went from like baking athasm me guests and having customers coming to the store and the energy and sort of I always felt like the store felt like a party, like when you walked into the party, like the music was on and the coffee was there, and I'd forgotten that something's got to

give that scene that was filmed in the store, isn't it. Yeah, So I just I thought, well, for a while, I tried to figure out what to do next, and I just couldn't figure it out. And this friend said, you have to stop type A. People think they can figure out what they're going to do next while they're doing something, and they can't. And I was like, Okay. I built myself in office upstairs and then I had nothing to do,

I mean like nothing. So for a year and out of complete boredom, I thought, well, very said, well, stay in the food business. You love the food business. And I thought, well, people have asked me to write a cookbook, but that's not the kind of thing I want to do. So because I can't imagine i'd be able to write a cookbook, and it seemed like a very solitary thing as opposed to the store, which is very social and

fun and up. And um, I thought, well, at least after a year, at least I have something to do. So I wrote a book proposal, thinking maybe I'll do that while I'm figuring out what to do next. And you ended up loving it. Can we pause for two seconds so people can hear me take a bite of my breathe delicious? Okay, sorry, go ahead. The eggs don't make much sound, but the areas definitely does. That was

both affected and totally genuine. So and you ended up loving the process of writing cookbooks, loving it and loving the people you were working with. It turns out it's not a solitary thing because there when we do the photographs, there's you. You have to have a sense of design, You have to know where you want to go. The photographers and the stylists and the remember the first time right here in this kitchen. Actually, I did a photo

shoot with the food stylist. I thought what a food stylist did was like I would make the food, they would um, put it on a plate, and then they would die. They would exactly exactly, or brush it with motor roy or somebody like that. And I was terrified because I thought, how I have to make every single recipe in this book for somebody to photographs. And I'm standing behind this counter and I'm going, okay, what do

you want first? And the food style is said, I'm the one who does the cooking, and I was like, oh, this is great. And so she made everything in the book, and the prop stylus brought the perfect plate, and um, the photographer was just wonderful. And I remember thinking, this is so much fun and so creative and so interesting, and you know, I hope somebody's going to buy this book so I can do it again. And now eleven books later, well, I guess you're coming out. I've done

ten and I'm working on the eleven. What is the eleventh going to be called? You're not going to tell you have to come back? Can you give us a hint? We have recipes in it? Can I tell you why I think your cookbooks are so great. I think you know,

don't tell me. I think you acknowledge, unlike a lot of other people, that entertaining is difficult and stressful and anxiety producing, and you make it so that you can kind of go step by step through the process and figure out how you're not going to be a nervous wreck when people show up, and the food is going to be delicious, and it's going to be done pretty

much when people walk in the door. And I think that's pretty uncommon for cookbooks, which sort of expect you to be standing over a hot stove while you're supposed to be simultaneously entertaining people. Is that the well, you know, the irony is. I remember thinking going into the cookbook business, what makes me think that I can write a cookbook when great restaurant chefs write cookbooks. But I realized very quickly I knew two things that restaurant chefs didn't know.

One is I'm not a trained professional cook. I mean, I've cooked more than most people, but I'm really I never went to see a culinary institute c I A. I never went to really formal training, so I know it's really stressful for me to cook, So it's important for me that it's really simple to make. And the other thing is when you own a specially food store, you find out what people like to eat at home as opposed to in restaurants. So you'd like to eat

coconut cupcakes, roast chicken, roast carrots. Um, when you got to a restaurant, you want something a little more challenging like Rosa buco, or you want something like um uh, will you bez which is harder to make at home. So um, so is that sort of your motto or your atics? Simplicity A totally simplicity as much as possible. That it's if it's something that I make and we that night, my assistant Barbara goes home and makes it

for her family. I think, yes, that was a great recipe. Um. If if I make something and three quarters of the way through I get bored with it, it goes in the trash and never makes it in a book, it has to be something I'm willing to make again for company.

Let me pick up mine on something Brian said. Because I do try to entertain and what I find myself totally pittying out about which is so appealing, and talking about cooking is getting everything ready at once, and I'm so bad at that, Like I can do most of it, but then I panic at the end. Well that's part of the deal too. I mean, it's not like I

don't either. Jeffrey knows in the fifteen minutes before people arrived, I'm always going to talk to me, do you do you try to do dishes that I'll tell you what I try and do. I try and do something that's in the oven, something that's on top of the stoves and they're not competing with each other, and something I made an advance that um is served room temperature so that you don't have to think about having all those things hot at the same time. That's that's good advice.

So it's really about the planning more than it is the doing. It's if you plan it and you say UM, and you plan it carefully, you don't end up with one of and and two things that go in a different temperatures. But that goes back to the you know what I call the game plan. And if you do the game plan and you figure it out so like you plant your dinner parties like the Normandy invasion, which

are very helpful. Actually, you know, every time people come for dinner, and I have a whole written list of like seven ten, put the ham in the oven, seven thirty, take the ham out, put the broccoli, and then I don't go at at noon. I'm I'm not panicking. I should start cooking now. No, I'm not. I shouldn't start cooking because my list says it starts at five thirty. That's really that's really smart. It's pretty simple. But it's

such a great way to organize yourself. But you can also start in the morning if you want to make like a water or melon and fedan mint salad or whatever you might do, and you can do it and put it in the reference. It's actually better because all the flavors get to get YEA. So beyond the cookbooks and the TV show, you briefly had a line of products, both frozen foods and mixes did and then those kind of came and went well for different reasons. But I

love the products. I was really proud of what we did. But the companies changed, and um, we didn't. We didn't love the way the direction of the companies were going in and I just I love what I do. I love the cookbooks, I love the TV show, I love um having a life, having time left off life, and uh, I just if it's not making me happy, I don't want to do it. I think that's a really powerful

lesson from your life for other people. You you edit, I did constantly, and you just think, if I'm not enjoying this part of my life, I'm going to get rid of it. If it doesn't make me happy, it's not gonna make anybody else happy. I think it's um that really translate. And if I don't have time to do things gonna say, I think it's this much about spreading yourself too thin. I went to this meditation retreat.

I know you're learning so much about people. I didn't really stick, but they told us that the Maharishi's that he said, what do you think the most important word for happy life is no, no peacefulness, no discernment. Discernment isn't that interesting? So deciding what is important, deciding how you're going to spend your time, And clearly you practice that by saying I don't want to do so much

that perhaps it'll keep me from doing the things I love. Well, yeah, yeah, that's exactly I mean, he said that I'd like you to bring back the scone mix. I'll make some mix for you and I'll drop it off. That's well, that's what I mean. I was really proud of those products. I thought we did a really good job and we worked really hard on them. But unless the company is going to stay with the quality of what we wanted

to do, then it doesn't work. But you talk about how people come to you all the time with this proposals and you say no to almost all of them. Yeah, I say no almost all of them. I mean, people wanted me to design a line of clothing. I'm like, I wear the same thing every day. They did want you to do. Somebody want to make a clothing. Somebody wanted me to do furniture. I'm like, furniture, well, I think you know what they wanted to do in it, which I think you see more and more of these days.

They wanted you to be a lifestyle brand, and you see so many people becoming from Jessica Alba to Race Witherspoon Paltrow the ultimate lifestyle brand, and that just didn't appeal to you. I just I mean, I loved as you say, I love doing what I do really well and having life, you know, just having a wonderful Somebody asked me if I would do a line of fertilizer, did you say, just go to a cow past ship, Like, why would I do? Do you do you think of yourself?

And it's different from fertilizer to you? Do you do? You? I consider yourself a feminist. You're a powerful working woman. I yeah, I do. Um I think that. Um My. When I left working in the White House, I knew I was never going to be the head of that organization. This was the seventies. It was never going to happen. And the only way that I was going to determine my own future was to do it myself. And so I think my decision to own my own business was

part of that. Is that and I think a lot of a lot of women fight with the existing system rather than creating their own system. And amen to that, sister, don't you think? So you can't change the system, and maybe you can move it a little bit, but it's very hard to change. And so I've always chosen to to create my own system in I can be successful.

And I think you were ahead of your time, because now I think there's a much more entrepreneurial attitude among people, and obviously we all know whole new businesses are popping up because of technology, and women are very successful in corporations. But in the seventies that's not true. That wasn't true, right, But even now, Uh, you look at the number of CEOs and the fortune five hundred and spathetically small. If you look at you know, of course it is women,

and the women's pretty well not right. If you look at women actually in tech and high positions in tech, it's actually dis worse and so um, yes, it's gotten perhaps better, but in many ways the obstacles are still there. I think there's a lot of subtle sexism too in the workplace that can be very demoralizing at times. But I'm sure it's people. I'm saving that from my book the next podcast. But it's interesting. You're rand is kind of a combination of the old fashioned and the modern.

You're you're cooking for your husband. Your latest book was called Cooking for Jeffrey. But at the same time, you're a powerful, independent female business owner, thank you. So it's interesting I think that people can can have both and can can sort of reflect their values in a multitude of different ways. Well, I think Jeffrey's advice really was great is do what you love and if you love it, you'll be very good at it. But it's not it's

not without risk. And we got a voicemail from someone, It's a very sweet voicemail who wanted to talk to you about your decision to really switch career. So let's listen and you can respond. Hi, Katie and Brian. My name is Kendra. I live in North Carolina and I have a new listener to your show and love it so much. And then I heard you were going to have Find a Garden on the show, which made me jump up and down. Um I have a question for

her about her relationship with risk. I'm all is moved by women who make choices that are daring, who are troublazers, who do things that they might fail at, especially in the public eye. And so I I would love to know Dina's thoughts on her journey, the evolution of her journey of risk and failure when she opened that first shop in the Hanton years ago and up to now. Um, I would love to just open her head and write out what she thinks about risk to inspire me to

not be so free, So please change my life. I thank you. Guys. We don't want to open up your head because that sounds very uncomfortable. But you know, I think people um stand at the side of the pond talking about what the pond is. Is it too hot? Is it too cold? Is it deep? Is it all the things are there? Think murky things under there? Um, I think that you have to just jump in the pond and answer to Kendra. Um. I have a very low threshold of boredom. If I'm bored, I need to

change things. And I just I can't stand being bored, and so I'll take a risk which heightens your awareness of what you're doing. It makes you a little scared, and you know that. I think that's good being a little scared, because if it keeps you up at night, you'll figure out the problems. But when you're jumping in the pond, it's not that you're just going to stay in that pond. That's just the beginning of it. It's then you look over there and you go the ponds

really interesting over there. So you go in that direction and then you go in another direction. And you keep going until you find the stream that feels right to you. So it's not a one time thing. It's just you're just pushing yourself off the cliff and going where it takes you. And even and I like being scared, and and and also I think failure is not the worst things. If something doesn't work out, you learn from it and

it helps you move forward in a different way. Don't you think I just calling it a failure is the wrong way to think about it. It's just a lesson learned, and you go and and then you find out what worked in that and what didn't work, and then you go to the thing that worked or the thing that you liked and go in that direction. You're right, we need to we need to redefine failure to stop using the effort. I want to ask you a question about all those years before you ventured off on your own

as a cookbook writer and a TV star. You know, you you were owning and operating this shop. You were kind of serving wealthy summer residents, and you became part of the community of people who live here year round, who don't have mansions on the ocean. Did that teach you something about inequality or divides in the country because you've been able to sort of traverse both those worlds. While East Hampton is not just wealthy people with big

houses on the ocean. Their farmers and fishermen and builders and all the trades that exist anywhere else are here. Um. I think East Hampton has gotten I mean, the Hampton's have gotten a reputation from you know TV shows as being just you know, well healthy people behaving badly. Um. And so I think it's a you know, it's it's

like any community. There's a broad spectrum of people that live here, and they all love coconut cupcakes, and so it's you know, the price of admission to bear for Contesta with zero you can wander through and have some samples of coconut cupcakes and and and be out on the street. Or you can buy a baguette for a few dollars and have a wonderful time. So they're like everyday pleasures. It's not like, um, you know, buying a

mansion on the beach. So I think, you know, food appeals to everybody, and I like that kind of feeling about it. There's an expression these days. I think my daughter taught me food porn, and when it comes to things like Instagram and even the various food networks, there's something so mesmerizing about watching people cook and make food. And I could watch some of these videos on Instagram and we don't love them. Yeah, I mean all day long.

Many people watch these videos. Would never cook what they're watching, No, but it's just so much fun. Why do you think people are so Do you think it's escapism in a weird way? Ina, I think that we all long for that mother who's in the kitchen cooking for us, and she's not there anymore. And there's that center where somebody's rolling out pasta or cooking roasting a chicken, and she's a doctor and a lawyer and a you know, you know, doing podcasts. Someone say more um, and so that sort

of core of us is missing. That is mom home in the kitchen that we're familiar with, and I think people are coming back to that. And I think Food Network had a huge amount to do with it. There's so many chefs, celebrity chefs out there. Do you ever get competitive? Is there a bitchy side to Ina Garten? Please tell me there is? Thank you. Brian's true I've actually never looked at what other people are doing. I just look at what I'm doing and do the best I can. I just, I mean, i'd like to. There's

there's an edge there, but is that true? I don't want to. Somebody once said, you're exactly the way you're on TV. Your language is a little worse. But you were reluctant to host a cooking show you had written, I think your second cookbook, and the Food Network came to you and you didn't really want to do it. I mean, I just couldn't you know. I had gotten used to writing cookbooks. I love doing it. I wasn't bored,

so I wasn't looking for something else. And they kept coming back over and over again and saying, please, won't you do it? And they kept upping the offer, and I'm like, I'm not negotiating. I don't want to do it. Just lose my number. And they found a production company in London whose work I loved um but it was Nigella Lawson's show. But I'm thinking, I'm not jeal a loss and I can't do that, And and they hired them and called me and said they're coming to your

house in two weeks to do the show. I said, I said, I'm not doing it, and I said, oh, just do thirteen shows. And I thought, well, I'll be terrible. I'll do thirteen shows and then we'll be done with it and I'll lose my number. So that two years ago, and now you have a whole barn on your property and that's where you shoot your most Mostly what I do is cook tester. I mean that's my office. That's where we meet every morning and we test recipes for the cookbooks and then twice a year we do the

TV shows there. So and we're actually just doing a new series which starts I think the end of May. Um please plug it. As as people are going more towards like food, food, porn and game shows, we're going in the other direction. And I'm doing a series called cook Like a Pro, which is all those sort of little tips you need to know, like how to cut a butternut squash in the best way and how to how to do there. It's recipes, but more information than

just tips. It's about processes that interesting would be interested to know. Yeah, definitely, yeah, because those kinds of tips, then you know it and it can serve you sort of the rest of your life, and you have to come up with a new show. Someone's in the kitchen with Aina in the kitchen, people are someone's in the kitchen with and you can some sombled eggs with truffles ambrios. This is kind of our tradition. By the way, every thing on every podcast now, the audience demands it. If

we go an episode without singing, they get annoyed. So give the people what they want. So in addition to all the things that you're doing, Aina, are there other things about you that people don't know, issues that you care about, things that you talk about with your friends that are important to you. But one of the things you and I have talked about is um is organizations

that happen. I think elliots with one of working with the sudden poverty carry actually my younger daughters working with the centers, And I mean organizations that help people locally and nationally, like the a c l u UM with immigrants that have issues. And I think there's so many incredible support systems in this country, and I think it's it's getting harder and harder to rely on the government to fund them, so people have to We really need to.

I've been involved in the Innocence Project is which is I think they do an amazing job, isn't it. I mean, my witness testimony is so unreliable and so many people have been convicted of things they didn't do. And so that's that's one issue you really care about. Are there are there others that you spend a lot of time on? You know, I think there's so many organizations that UM need help. UM. I mean I support Plan Parenthood. I think, um, they do an amazing job, and I know they're under

enormous stress now. Um, And frankly, people don't understand that. I don't know, like of what they do as women's health, it's you know, it's a very important organization for women that can't afford good doctors. And the thing that is so political is a very very small part of what they do. And the money that they get from the government already cannot go to fund abortion services. People don't understand that. But how do you get your news? I'm

just curious. That's interesting. Um, New York Times, Washington Post online, both hard copy and online. I think it's a different experience. UM. I still like, I do you know why I just like the I'd like to see the layout because it tells me a lot about the editorial choices that have been made in terms of how they prioritize articles. I totally agree with you. Yeah, I feel if I don't get the hard copy, I miss stuff for whatever reason. Because online is so targeted to my interests, I can't

find the unexpected thing. But I'm like the only one know I know. Under forty I have the body of year. Do not stop saying that, well, this has been such a treat for us. It's really been, and I think you know it must be. I don't know. Do you get uncomfortable about the fact that there are so many people who feel connected to you and admire you so much? And I think in many ways I feel that your presence is really comforting to them. Thank you. That's wonderful,

you know that. I know. I love as Brian said, that you know people how to cook, because when you cook, everybody shows up. I mean, nobody's ever called and said come for dinner, I'm cooking and said no, no, no, I really don't want a home cook meal. But when everybody shows up, that's when you create a community for yourself. And so it's not really about the food, although it's nice, if it's delicious, it's really about the people that share

it with you. Are you and Martha Stewart buds? I mean we've been we've known each other for a really long time. Yeah, we used to do parties together. Actually one time we do benefits together. Really one time Martha made a ham and brought it on the Today Show and after the segment, I asked our food crew if I could take the ham, and uh so I ended up serving it for Easter and it was a big conversation piece. It must have been a really good ham.

Was a really good ham. It was a really good ham. Anyway, we'll speaking of really good hands. Yours is in the oven. We don't want to keep you too long because it is Easter and you have to prepare for Easter dinner. But thank you. I know this was such a such a tree. Really happy East, Happy Easter, too happy over whatever your Spring Awakening holiday is, happily, have a wonderful time.

And just when we thought we got everything, who walks in the door but Jeffrey Garden in the flesh and uh and in the sweatpants and of course we got to talk to the man, not I guess behind the woman. Yeah, oh my god, are you nice to see you? I'm good? How are you? This was such a treat. So we've been talking about you, Jeffrey. Yes, we have all things, these two. This show was going to be called Aina and Jeffrey the real story. Well, I don't think that

was in the contract. Do you feel like, Jeffrey, you finally learned to cook be marre to this wonderful woman all these years. You're kidding, right, It makes really good coffee. I have a very lame excuse that we were married so young. With the exception of my time in the army, I never lived alone, so I never had a chance to cook. She preempted from the very everybody. Sorry for Jeffrey. And when you were in the military, by the way, you know we know too much about you. Learned to

speak THI, Yes he did. He lived in Can you say something to me in Thai? Well you wouldn't understand. That's okay. Anyway, Well, we've got so much fun. This has been really, really a treat. Thanks very much to Aina Garten for opening up her home and her heart to us. But it is a beautiful on a beautiful Sunday morning with the sun coming through Sunday. That's right, the sun coming through the windows and the birds chirping,

and it was just idyllic. Also thanks to Gianna Palmer for producing the show, to Jared O'Connell for mixing and engineering, or Richie for additional production assistance. And thanks also to our social media Maven. I think that has that on her card, Alison Bresnick social media, Maven and your cards bad that's right and right my new cards. And to

Emily Beena for her part in producing. And I should add one thing, Katie, thank you for cooking us an amazing dinner last night, maybe inspired by I know a little bit. You made this leg of lamb and lemon pasta and asparagus and cupcakes and hala and halla for those of us who are celebrating the Paysach as well as the Easter, and you put us all up at your beautiful house last night. Well, it was a lot

of fun. And that's a train in the background. Everybody, we're right near the tracks and cars on the wrong side of the tracks. And Mark Phillips, thank you as always for our wonderful theme music. Katie Kirk, Mitch Semmil and I are our executive producers. And remember you can email us at comments at currect podcast dot com, or you can find me on social media. I'm Katie Couric on Twitter and Instagram and Katie dot Kurric on Snapchat.

And Brian you're on social media as well, primarily Twitter, Twitter, Goldsmith be on Twitter, and best of all, you can rate and review our show on what is now known as Apple podcast used to be iTunes. iTunes is so March, It's so yesterday, April is all about Apple Podcasts. Don't forget to subscribe to the show as well. That's how more people can find it. And we'll talk to you next time. Thanks for listening.