Make financial progress with into It credit Karma. It's straightforward, stress free and personalize for your financial journey. Download the app to get started Credit Karma Start making progress today. Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question. It's the holiday season, Okay, I tried everyone, and with that, many of us are gearing up to sit around tables with people we don't necessarily see eye to eye with. Well,
that's something Jessica Tarlove does every single week. If you don't know Jessica, she is the co host of The Five on Fox News, where she's the lone liberal voice among a panel of conservatives. She's built a reputation as someone who can stand her ground and convey her points without stooping to personal attacks and invect it. I wanted to know, as do a lot of people, how the heck does she do it? What is the secret to keeping her cool, rationally stating her position and keeping things
well civil. Let's face it, we could all use a little help in that department, especially as the holidays approached. So get your pencils ready and take notes. Here's my conversation with Jessica tar Love. Hi Jessica, Hi, so nice to meet you met Katie have we never met before?
We met once at can Lyons at pTau like five years ago. Oh my god, but like many cocktails do you? And it was just like a fan girling where I was like, Katie Kurk's here, so funny, so loosely we met.
Well, now I'm very excited that Jessica tar Love is here. So I guess one of the first questions I'm going to ask you and then we'll talk about all kinds of things. Jessica is something that a lot of my social media followers asked, and that was how do you do it? How do you sit with four very conservative people? Not every night? I guess you alternate with Harold Ford? Right, yeah, but how do you do that? It's a a man job to several times a week and keep your cool,
and I think it's miraculous. I've watched you a few times. I'm not a regular viewer of the Five.
I'm guess you are, though we have twenty two percent Democrats.
Yeah, no, no, and I do like I like Dana and I know Judge Janine from my previous life on the Today Show. I don't really know Jesse or Greg Guttfeld. That's a fascinating, fascinating thing in and of itself. His Late night show. We sometimes watch because we're fascinated by it.
Yeah, well, you're not alone in watching it and being fascinated by it. He definitely filled a void in the late time space, late night space, I should say, where people didn't want to see five of the same guy making the same jokes. Right, and he invites on a wide range of people to be there, right, and people are culty about it. I mean, he not just the ratings,
but how well he performs in the demo astounding. So there are young people doing this, and then you look at the election results and you say, well, this makes sense.
Yeah, I agree.
They're like thirty somethings that are into this.
Yeah. Well, getting back to you, tell me how you go on when you go on, and how you brace yourself to be honestly a lone voice for sort of the democratic point of view on that show.
Yeah, so, I will say, And I think it is important contextually because a lot of people who watch the show or see clips of me flying around, which is how most people with my politics at least experience, They're like, you mean, this is a whole hour because I thought it was a three minute and fifteen second show, Like, not at all. It goes the whole hour. I've been at Fox my entire media career, so I don't know anything different than being odd woman out, and I think
it's prepared me for those more difficult conversations. I mean a lot of the five And I think why it resonates with viewers is it's pretty light. Right, it's five o'clock. You're supposed to be like hanging out. It's after work for you know, whever, it's dinner time for some of our older viewers, right, you're.
Right, Yeah, they're having the Early Word special. Now it's chic everywhere, and now people are maybe fixing dinner sticking rights.
And it's not supposed to be upsetting, right, It's not supposed to be something. And so much of political commentary right now and just discourse is harmful to your mental well being and enraging, enraging, and it's not supposed to do that. You're supposed to pay attention. And we obviously the first half of the show where we do most of the red meat political conversation, there are moments that people get amped up especially when you really care about things.
And like you said, they are very passionate players that
are part of this ensemble. But we are trying and seem to have effectively replicated what a lot of people know in their real lives, where they have, you know, a Thanksgiving table that might be predominantly conservative, but like Aunt Jessica is invited and like she's really pissed that Kamala lost or whatever, and there are moments of agreement right where we all kind of come together and say, like, yeah, that doesn't seem right right, we can all be on
the same side of this. So, having been at Fox my whole career, I think it's just more inherently normal to me to be in those kinds of moments.
Well, actually that brings me to my obvious follow up is why have you been at Fox your entire career, Jessica and what attracted you to that format as somebody who whose ideology doesn't know necessarily mesh with most the vast majority of people there. Yeah.
So my background is in political polling. I have a PhD in government. I came back to I did my PhD at LC in London, came home and I went to work for Doug Shown, who was Bill Clinton's polster, right, and Doug was and he went to bar I went to Renmark. Yeah, seven Sisters Forever that.
My sisters both went to Smith and I got rejected. Jessica rejected. Not even waitless jokes on that that is another podcast for another time, but go on.
I was it's starting that I have young kids. But I have some friends who have kids that are thinking about heading into high school, and well they're not thinking about it. They were going to go and they're thinking about what high schools to go to. And I went to Dalton here in New York City for just high school and very prestigious, really hard to get into. And they're like, oh, how did you make that choice? And I'm like, little secret, I applied to thirteen schools out
of eighth grade and only got into Dalton. So I feel you. The other us are like, we're not.
I feel validated. Thank you.
Jessica Smith should feel bad.
I love Smith though, yeah, my sisters did too, and one was five Beta Capain. They apparently loved sisters, so I was really kind of bummed when they are there's no backstory, No, I think it was I wasn't as good a student as my sisters. But anyway, go on, you went to Fox.
Yeah, So Doug was a contributor at Fox basically since he got out of the Clinton administration, and he was as I continued to grow working for him and learning how to do polling and delving more into the research side, and I'm fundamentally a researcher. He said, I think it would be really good for you to build your media skills. And because he had connections to Fox, he introduced me to Bookers and I started coming on.
But first your grandparents had met him at the Harmony Club and basically.
Tila's all this time the Harmony Club, which is like a very obnoxious, predominantly Jewish on the Upper East Side. I was finishing my PhD, and my grandmother, like an overbearing Jewish grandmother, like went up to him, probably while he was at the buffet or something, and said, I have a really smart granddaughter. And he's like, I've heard that before. And he's like she's like, no, no, no, she's really smart. Give her a chance, and he did, which is how I started working for him.
And he's your grandmother, right, you owe a lot to her. I do.
She's another podcast about the deeply complicated history of Malvina Roberts. But she got me where I was going and I will always be thankful for that. But then it just pretty quickly was a good fit. I'm a proud establishment Democrat, very moderate by the party standards, you know, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton type of Democrat, not more AOC Bernie Sanders mold.
And I think that that works better with the bipartisan conversation, because I mean, if you want to have a food fight, and you remember what cable news was like around once Trump announced, and like every night on CNN, it was like Anna Navarro losing her mind, right, and Kaylee mcanenney was on in those days, and Anderson Cooper is just kind of sitting in the middle petrified, right like that that's what it was like. But you could have a
more thoughtful conversation. And I found myself being able to do that more or less. And it always is embedded, at least for me, coming from a place of understanding that I'm talking to people who generally come by their beliefs honestly, and I think that too many people suppose that folks who they don't agree with don't actually believe the things that they're saying, but most of the time they do, and a lot of that is due to
circumstances how they grow up. Like I grew up here in New York City, I have had a charmed life.
I know where my liberal politics come from and what my lived experience has been, and going to work at a place like Fox, I now have people in my orbit who have a completely different set of backgrounds, who when they talk about how they feel about the Second Amendment that comes from a place of growing up with guns and having hunters in their families, or when they talk about, you know, probably the toughest issue that I ever have to discuss on air being pro life or
bringing pro choice, especially in the wake of the Dobbs decision, that a lot of people's beliefs on that is rooted in their religiosity. Where I look at it as a policy issue and a scientific issue, and they're telling.
Me about so a personal liberty issue, all of the.
Things that we think about it versus this is what I was taught in Sunday School, This is what I you know, I grew up in mesh in an environment that feels really differently to that, so that has been enlightening. But basically it was a good fit and Fox hired me right after the twenty sixteen election, and so that is just where I've been in and they've allowed me to grow. Susanne Scott, who's the CEO of Fox, you know, she promoted me eight months pregnant to get the hosting
job on the five, which is massive. And you know what it's like, you're completely freaking out when you're with child, let alone publicly with child like that, and will your job be there for you? And They've been extremely nurturing to me. And I think also putting such an outspoken democrat on, I mean, we've been the top show in cable news for years now, I think says something about the kind of conversation that they want going on on their airwaves. So yes, ah, it's still four on one
or three on one. Dana Prino is well, I.
Was I was going to say, it's it's that is a real anomaly though in the Fox lineup. I mean, let's be honest, you say that's the kind of show and the conversations they want on their air but they are really few and far between are they not, Well.
It's different there. A panel show is different than as host show, right, but even the guests and even sort of the no one's going to pretend that it's not
right leaning, especially in prime time. I think you could have conversations about what Neil Cavuto does on his show, what Brett Bair does on a show, what Shannon Breem does on Fox News Sunday and Chris Wallace before her, and know that some of the most productive conversations with Democrats have actually occurred on those shows, and that actually, you know, like Brett, for instance, on Special Report has a segment called common Ground where he has on a
dem and a Republican and the most liberal senators are dying again like Elizabeth Warren would want to come on Fox to be able to do that. So there are moments where I think actually the fact that it is conservative leaning, you know, writ large, not necessarily those newscasters, creates an environment that Democrats know that they want to
be a part of that. Because also a we have the numbers like if you're watching cable news, you're watching Fox most likely, and especially if you look at a post election where MSNBC and Sana has dropped off, and.
Why do you think that they have just imploded.
I think it's two parted. I think when you lose, you received right and you go into a hole. I mean, I have tons of liberal friends that are like, I just don't want to see the news right now, you know, like wake me up once he's inaugurated or something big happened. That's impossible. But you know, I don't know what Trump
two point zero actually looks like. But everyone I think will get amped up again if they're you know, if the deportation force starts, Joe and Mika's audience is coming back, right like, they will want to be part of that. But I think there's fatigue and I think there's a feeling.
And I get this from a lot of people that I know in my orbit who kind of tune out more conservative leaning media and really are part of the liberal bubble that they weren't not told an honest story about what was going on in this election, like poo pooing polls and interviews with people who you wouldn't expect to be leaning towards Trump or considering Trump, and being fed a narrative that was not reflective of what happened on November fifth, and I think it's really important as
a media person to have an honest relationship with your viewers. I try to do it like I, you know, beating that drum. I wanted people to know Joe Biden has a ton of accomplishments and that he should be really proud of and that when he stands there and he talks about the good things that he's done for the country, that that's an important element of this. But at the same time to also say, this is a jump ball, right, there's a tiny polling error in either direction, you're going
to have this result. And Nate Silver, who took a lot of flak for this, you know, in his model, the number one most likely outcome was what we saw that Trump gets all seven battlegrounds, and then just below it, do just a few percentage points, was that Kamala gets all seven battlegrounds.
Right.
This was a run of the mill result. And I think that people who have been on a steady dip of left leaning media have a sense of betrayal in all of this because they were told he's hitler. You know, he's an authoritarian, We're going to get all of these Republicans that you know, supported Nikki Haley in the primary, but without really you know, getting into the fact that most people do go home right when you look at
a full policy platform. It's very hard. I think of it in contrast, like what would it take for me to vote for a Republican? It take a lot.
Well, I guess the question is Donald Trump is claiming a mandate, and as the ulster that I know that the numbers just don't add up to a so called mandate. What do your focks colleagues say when he repeatedly insists that he has been given carte blanche to do whatever he wants.
They think it's Listen, it's a problem with the electoral college in the way that elections work in this country. But it is a rarity that a Republican wins the popular vote, right, you know, And he did do that
by a tiny amount. I think it's like one point five percent now and it'll be I mean, it's certainly the lowest performance since two thousand, but I think historically speaking, it's like the combined with the electoral college and the popular vote, like the third worst performance for a winning president.
That's not that exciting. Right, we're not talking about what Obama did or like a Reigan I was to say that president happened, right, Yeah, but it just in recent memory for people who are handicapping this, But yeah, they do feel like he has a mandate, he has the trifecta, he has control of everything. But you know, if if it was such a commanding win for the Trump agenda, the cotails would have been larger, and Democrats I think
did really well in the Senate. I was sad to see Bob Casey lose his race in Pennsylvania and a little bit surprised by it, but you know, holding on in Nevada, winning Arizona, Tammy bald went in Wisconsin, Elisa Slockkin winning in Michigan, and on top of it, for these candidates to have figured out a way to manage the you know, I'll work with Donald Trump when I need to. Tammy balbinz aarreed releasing ads. I was like, this is what I did with Donald Trump when he
was in office. We can do that again. So I always pushed back on it and not to diminish what he pulled off because I think it is a dramatic feed, especially because he took all these gen Z voters that I didn't expect would go over in those kinds of numbers. But I don't feel like he has some massive mandate. And you know, Speaker Johnson is going to have to talk to him about the hard truths. He has a one seat majority. What are you supposed to.
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game around. Credit Karma start making progress today. I want to ask you about the fact that some left leaning media talked about, you know, described him as hitler with Honestly, JD. Vance did the same before he had an epiphany and became a big fan of Donald Trump's and talked about his authoritarian tendencies. And you were saying that as if you were dismissing those claims. But I'm curious if you do think Donald Trump has a authoritarian tendencies and were people right to point that out.
Yes, I think your strongest defense is always using the words of people who knew him. And so when you have quotes from Mark Milly and John Kelly talking about this, you amplify them. And I did on the five as well. I read them, I write, I take copious notes, I do a lot of prep. I read them out loud.
I said, this isn't about me. But the reason that I think maybe you read what I was saying as being dismissive, is that that argument only tells part of the story of how people see Donald Trump, and that this came down to an incumbency election and an inflation election, which happened all over the world, and all the incumbents got thrown out right, and that people were thinking about their grocery costs and we're not following the trend line
as closely as we are. Right. They weren't, like you know, Steve Rattner up there with all of his charts to say, which I love. I live off of it. I mean, I use all of this for my own data collection. But they weren't tracking it like that. They just have a memory of the past few years, not feeling that good.
They don't care if they bridge they're driving over to get to the Kroger was the result of the infrastructure bill. While they don't know is their groceries or thirty percent higher than they were or.
They know both of those things, and you have to pick. And for a lot of people this felt like a political sophie's choice for them, they didn't like either. Whether if Kamala had had more time they would have felt more comfortable with her. I think she ran a very
good campaign for getting one hundred and seven days. I was not someone that thought a year in advance that Biden should have gotten out, But in retrospect, I think that's probably the case that we should have had a primary, and that there is a good chance that Kamala Harris would have won that primary and she would have been able to talk about her experience as vice president and gone ahead.
But they had so much working against them, not only inflation, but they have the border crisis, and she never really could come up with a good explanation. No, And I've said for the fact, which I think is honestly very legitimate, Jessica, that there was a comprehensive immigration bill that took what eight months for very conservative Republicans.
And Democrats Hamward and it's not an OLM Barter's guy.
Yeah, and Donald Trump said do not vote on this bill because he wanted to use it as a part of his campaign strategy.
I think Donald Trump sucks, Like I totally agree with you.
But why didn't say he sucks. I just said he wouldn't let them vote on the border. No.
But yeah, I'm saying he sucks. I believe that. I think he's manipulative, he's underhanded, he's completely self interested. I worry he will run the country exactly in that vein, and I'm concerned about it. But on the immigration front, there was a tendency amongst Democrats, and especially Democrats were discussing the issue, so people who do interviews or are
part of the media to minimize it. Over the first two and a half years, when there were a lot of people coming in here, and I thought that it was a stunt. You know, when they started bussing migrants, they scored a Mars vendors. Yeah, it was the smartest thing they ever did.
Well. It's interesting because I have a friend who lives in Florida, and I said what did you think of Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott taking some of these immigrants and moving them to Northern States, And she said, I thought it was great because nobody really was paying attention
before that. And I do think that this untold story was the strain on social services and communities, particularly along the border, this influx, huge influx of immigrants was having and I think the mainstream media, however you define that these days, kind of ignored that story to its peril.
Not only but you could make a good argument that they were protecting Biden from this that it was like, I would rather talk about how we're inflation is coming down faster here than it is for anyone else in the G seven and all of these very good things that were actually happening, then deal with the crisis, which
is an everyday horror show like Eagle Past. Texas cannot take ten thousand people a day, and it's wrong for us to ask them to do it, and Democrats like Mark Kelly, Henry Quayar screaming about it, and it led to a point where some of these border state democrats didn't want to be linked with the administration on this because they knew that it was being so poorly handled and that we didn't have a good solution. And I agree with you that comprehensive bill which James Langford wrote.
It is one of the more with Chris Murphy, but James Langford is one of the more conservative people well in the Senate in a genuine way. This isn't fake right conservative populism. This is the real deal. But that still came three and a half years after this crisis
really amped up. And the speed at which we've been able to cut down on border crossings, like because of the executive orders, and President Shinbaum of Mexico was touting this in her letter back to Donald Trump when he threatened the twenty five percent tariff on her, where he said border crossings down seventy five percent because of the work that we're doing in conjunction with the Biden administration. That's all well and good, but to the average voter,
they're thinking, well, why didn't you do this before? If it was an executive order and you didn't actually need congressional approval to do it, why didn't you start with that?
Right?
The second Title forty two was lifted.
Right, and their answer to every question about immigration was well, well, early in the administration they had a bill and they couldn't get any to do anything about it.
We didn't think it was a big enough deal. Yeah, that's the thing. And you're totally right about the social services. And I've spoken to a number of people who not only you know, have the daily experience that I do. I take the subway in and out of work every day, and probably one of the only people on camera that does that. And so I know what the subway is like now, and I grew up here in the city, and I know what the difference is between that experience.
But when classrooms are filling up with kids who don't speak English, and you have community centers like all over you know, big cities like Boston, community centers that are built for underserved kids who need somewhere to go after school, and they're being closed down to be turned into migrant shelters, and you.
Have hospitals that are overwhelmed, you know. And I think I even talked to Mark Thompson at one point and said, why aren't you covering this? And I thought it was interesting. I also told him that I thought during the elee they should have bureaus all across the country in smaller towns and rural communities, so they could actually and I know that John what's John's last name? Who the white hair guy who does the map, John King, who I really like. Sorry, John, I forgot your name for a second.
I know he went out and talked to real people, but I feel like they could have been much more embedded in real communities talking to people about, you know, all kinds of issues that I think surfaced during this election. You know, so it was largely an immigration and inflation election, But I'm curious if you think sexism also played a role in it. Because I went to a doctor and I said, gosh, I think Donald Trump may win this election. She said, well, we have two terrible choices. She just
doesn't have the stature to deal with world leaders. And I thought, wow, that was a female doctor. Yeah, and I'm curious if you think that sexism is still an albatross around the neck of many of these female candidates, especially when it comes to the highest office in the land.
Yeah, I definitely do. I think that there are considerations that go into the life of a professional woman on any level that men never think about. Like it was very cute when Doug M Hoff at the DNC said, you know, I like her laugh, but we don't care about men's laughs, right, and we rarely notice what they're wearing. Right. And I know everything. I know every pantsuit that Hillary wore, you know, and I know about all of Kamala's fashion choices and all of it.
Y made I think an intentional decision to be even though they were beautiful Chloe suits, apparently to be as nondescript as possibly very understated. Right.
And you know, I'm sure you remember when Trump went after Nikki Haley saying her dress was ugly. You know, Nikki Haley purposely leaned into her femininity in a way the Democratic candidates don't typically. I think the only skirt Kamala one was when she went to Sunday Church, or when she went to Sunday Church, which is what to a Black church, which is what you're supposed to do. I am told.
So.
I think it is part of it, just in what people take in about the aesthetics. But if we're being honest and they see no reason not to be, you know, the first couple of years of the Biden administration, I don't think she performed that well in public arenas, and
that people had that as their perception of her. There was this moment she was sent to the Munich Security Conference, probably about two years ago, a year and a half, two years ago, and she gave I think one of the best defenses of natter support of Zelenski and the Ukrainian people, of Western values, democracy and going after totalitarians like Putin, and she got praise across the political spectrum
for it. One of those moments where the five is not, you know, right, not adversarial, where even Janine is like, that was a good speech, That's what we're about here, and that moment and ensuing moments where I think she did well. I think especially in talking about the Dabbs decision and the implications of that, she did a great job.
But those moments came too late, and I don't know the inner workings of whether she was not amplified on purpose so that it was really Biden's administration or I agree.
I agree with you one hundred percent. I don't think she was. She was not nurtured, and I don't think she was was showcased in any way. And part of it I wondered if Joe Biden's discomfort and being in spontane TuS media situations. They didn't want to then prop her up for fear that she would overshadow him.
That's interesting. I actually hadn't heard that you can use that. I'm taking you I'm gonna be like my pal Katie told me this.
I think you know, That's what I wondered. Well.
Also, once as this autopsy is being written about what happened, and you realize just how small Biden's circle is, smaller than even presidents that have small circles like we're talking about, you know, Mike Donald and say Anita done and Anita done, Jill and Hunter. Essentially, are you know, making all of these decisions like dropping out of the race, pardoning Hunter? We don't know. I mean, it could be one person's feeling.
That will be interesting to find average to it.
Yeah, I'm fascinated by it. And there's, you know, part of me who feels as someone who was very defensive of the administration, not just for patty political reasons, but because I genuinely believed in what we were doing and things that we've created a recovery that's unprecedented.
Why do you think Biden gets so little credit for the things he has achieved. Is it all about, you know, the aesthetics of his ability to communicate, to use the bully pulpit properly, because I think with I saw someone reeling against the part and saying this, will you know this? Maybe it was James Carville that he's going to be the have the lowest approval rating of any president in history and it Do you think it's a communications problem?
Do you think it's a perception problem. Do you think there are things that are actually you know, legitimate to criticize? I mean, what do you think is keeping him from from getting credit for anything? Really?
I think that he proved himself to not be as much of the empathizer in chief as we thought that he was. Like in the twenty twenty primary, I thought he did that really really well, where people thought, this is a guy who's on our side, this is a guy who hasn't jumped the shark. He's not saying, you know, health insurance for everyone who's here undocumented, we should have open borders.
You know.
He seemed like the common sense right candidate him and like Amy klobashar right, who I love and can't get out of a primary, but would be an amazing president for sure. And it is a communications problem. I think he wasn't able to toe the line of being able to speak highly of what they were doing and to also say, I know it's not enough right now, I know what your life looks like.
Right He couldn't really feel their pain like Bill Clinton did. No well, and I wonder why no, because I think he genuinely does. I think he's an incredibly rithetic.
Frankly about being destroyed on conservative media constantly and his accomplishments being belittled and people talking down about him. I mean, this guy is run for president three times. He obviously believes that he should be there and that he has earned a level of respect that he did not feel that he was getting for being able to do these things, for being able to work with conservatives when he needed to to, you know, make sure that we have investments
like the Chips and Science Act. What happened. It was a skinny version of the bill, but the Inflation Reduction Act, which a lot of people still mistakenly say was what spiked inflation, and that's absolutely not true.
I don't know, I've read enough stuff that's that at least it might have contributed. I'm no economist, Jessica, but you know, an influx of that much money, there are some that argue that really wasn't helpful to the economy met but again, an economists.
Justin Wolfers, who worked in the Bomba administration and is a great liberal economist. What I'm saying is that when you look at where the inflation numbers are now, there was a temporary pain that was unsustainable for people, but they were looking at it on a long curve and it seems to have come back down to a palatable level. But people went and voted feeling like inflation was fifteen percent and not that it was two or three.
If you want to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. Do you think historically that Joe Biden will be considered a better president than he's believed to be at this moment in time?
For his sake, I think, unfortunately, the decisions that he made around what to do in terms of running and kind of more social you know, like the Hunter pardon or and whatever is to come. I think if he goes around blanket pardoning anyone involved with the January sixth Committee or things like that, it'll get even worse.
For sort of those preemptive parties. But I don't know. Listen but for you, listen to that interview on Meet the Press with Donald Trump basically saying Liz Cheney deserves to be in prison any top sale I mean, I.
Mean Cashpitel has an enemy's list that he published in his book, So why would that be so bad to But what are you partning them for?
Well, I think that a lot of people don't want him to pardon them because it's an admission they did something wrong when they were actually just holding people.
Aunt has even said, don't yeah, s that's a terrible press and for what we weren't on the wrong side of the law. And I'm glad that he has faith in the system that it'll protect them. I'm not so sure if you get through all of these confirmations. And Pam Bondi is obviously better than Matt Gates, but she will.
Say not that much she is. I don't think he's like sexually assaulted underage girls. But as far as we know, she did not do that.
But no, she you know, she was on the election denihilism tour with a lot of these lawyers and was out. I think she gave a press conference in Philadelphia talking about, you know, all the stolen votes and all of that, and none of that is good. But you have to reassess your standards, I think for what he's doing, with a few exceptions in terms of foreign policy, I am very happy.
Yes, a lot of people are.
I think I'm friends with Mike Walt, who's going to be the National Security Advisor.
I think people think he's fine. I think they think Rubio is fine. It's these other people, like Fox's own Pete Hegseeth And I'm curious how you feel that Fox pretty much ignores the story. They invite his mother on Fox and Friends. But when it comes to all these allegations that are pretty serious, honestly, from I mean from drinking to sexually assaulting women, to driving an organization into the ground, to all kinds of things, Fox kind of ignores them.
Well, I don't. I mean, at least in the last few days, every time that I look up at a screen when I'm in the makeup chair, Pete is on it and there's a gaggle around him and they're covering it. I think the first mention was Chad Program, who's a great reporter of ours, and it was on Brettbaer's show, The Straight News Show, and it was mentioned there. And there has been ensuing coverage.
But you know what I mean, I do and I don't. It's ongoing. I you're not running Fox shows. I'm not asking you to defend defend the editorial decisions. But it just does seem weird to me. I take your point. I I no, he loosely, you know, have been on with him. He's always been very pleasant to me. I think the alleysians are serious, and you see people like Joni Ernst who's obviously taking them seriously. And I think now she's kind of switched and said that she had
a I'm paraphrasing, you know, a great conversations. He continues to support his nomination.
I think that's saying that someone should get to go before the committee isn't the same thing as saying this is okay. And there is a very strong argument to be made that a president who certainly in the mind of Republicans, has a big mandate, should get to have his nominees come through, like someone like Tom Cotton released a statement saying, I expect that they will get their hearings and that they will get confirmed. And he's one who's a complete neo KHN like normal hawk right, like
a Mitch McConnell, but younger. And he's even saying that, And I think.
That I think we haven't really heard from Susan Collins or Lisa Murkowski and they only need write one Republican No they need.
They'll need how many three? So because Jadie Vance will be you can vote? So yeah, would I love it if Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski just stood up and said no to seventy five percent or whatever.
Yeah.
I think there are there are different threat levels that each of them are posing. And I hate that someone who I think is as dangerous as like an RFK Junior getting as the head of HHS is now like a shrug to people because they feel a guy have bigger fish to fry here, like right, Tulca Gabbert is interesting.
I know that you said something about Tulsea Cabbard. You said that I guess what did you say about her? That she was sort of your hair on fire? Pick? Oh, top anxiety pick yeah.
Peak anxiousness about Telsea Gabbard. You know, it's been interesting because I feel like she hasn't gotten a lot of intention. But then there was a story that came out yesterday about the meetings that she's been having with senators and that apparently it's not going well. So if it's just undercovered and she ends up being not confirmed, fine by me. I don't need to hear about it all the time.
But you know, watching the scenes out of Syria the past few days and thinking back to her defense of Assad, which is the original I think that might be part of that was probably from my podcast. But I spoke about her on The Five a couple of years ago and I said, I am not in the business of accusing someone of being a Russian asset. That is very serious, and it got us in a whole host of trouble in twenty sixteen about Trump, and you know that backfired.
But they like her too much, and they talk about her on Russian state TV, and I think a commentator and even said recently like she's the only good one left in this, you know, the only one that guess us, because Marco Rubio doesn't feel that way about Putin or Asad and Mike Waltz certainly doesn't. So Tolci is very concerning to me. But I don't know, Like Bernie Sanders has said that he might support her and RFK Junior, which seems like a complete betrayal of a lot of
his beliefs or what I thought that they were. But I don't know. I believe more in Lisa Murkowski than I do Susan Collins. You know, she's always deeply disturbed by things, and then you know, votes for them. So it's going to be a mess. It's gonna be good TV programming.
Though, definitely, definitely. We're almost out of time. But I wanted to ask you just a couple of questions in closing one. You know, there's so much handwringing and introspection about what the Democratic Party needs to do now, and Chris Murphy, who I'm interviewing this afternoon, I think they said, yeah, that they need to be more populist and come up with really a different strategy. I mean, as somebody who's
been steeped in democratic politics, for a long time. What advice would you give the party.
Well, it's hard to do it if you're not naturally prone to be able to but speaking like a normal human is a good one. And rewiring. I mean, I've heard a lot of people and there's a huge rise in the number of folks who identify with a third party, right, who are just like I'm an independent, And then it's usually an issue like being pro choice or something that
sways you in one direction or the other. But I would love it if we could kind of strip the title Democratic Party off of it and just common sense party. What does your heart tell you about X policy or exposition that you might be taking? And I think that that would serve us a lot better. We certainly wouldn't
have gotten into this mess with you know. The ad that had the most impact on the election was the They Them You ad with Charlemagne in it, and it was an ad about trans issues, but it was mostly an economic ad, right. It was basically saying, the Democratic Party is taking your cash and putting it towards something outlandish, right, that no one thinks about, that affects one person every five years, maybe, right, the sex changes for undocumented people
in jail. That is the smallest subcategory you could probably ever come up with.
And I think that's interesting, But you think it really translated to a feeling of being economically ripped off by government.
This is where your dollars are going. They do it about migrants, they do it about foreign policy. That's how they've turned people against the idea of giving money to your brain and in some cases to Israel. I mean, Jade Vance even voted against the Israel funding package, which I know he's on board now that you know there's a new sheriff in town, and he's part of that ticket obviously. But I think if you just let yourself be governed by your gut more than your party affiliation,
that we would do better. Because a lot of these people who were interviewed, and I'm sure you saw some of these interviews as well, like the former Democrat who is a prison guard who was interviewed about why he had voted Hillary Biden Trump, and he said, the Democratic Party doesn't like people like me. Or the woman who was in a focus group who said, they've asked, you know, what words would you use to describe the two parties?
And she said the GOP was crazy and the Democratic Party was preachy, and she said, preachy doesn't work for me. I can handle a lunatic, then I can handle a party that makes me feel bad about myself. Right, And we made a lot of people feel bad about themselves.
Yeah. I got to know someone who's covering the Trump campaign and she said, I said, what is you know, you go to a lot of these rallies. What do you think is really motivating? And she said the lefty lecture culture.
Yeah, which frankly is me. I mean a lot of the criticism that I get from the right, and you know, I think now I'm just part of the ecosystem and they've come to accept me. But you know, I have a PhD. I wears you went to the school shuring you about your your I went to Brent Maar, grew up in New York City, went to private school, all of it like limousine liberal to the max. And I sit up there and sometimes go off for you know, a full minute at a time about Biden's accomplishments. I
did it just yesterday. I said, you know, we were talking about what his legacy would be, and my colleague, we're crapping on him, and I said, you know what, his legacy is the best recovery in the G seven. That's what his legacy is. And what did they say to that? Jesse was like, we're moving on. You know, I take all of those as a w when they just say moving on. But I would like to be more common sense about things. I would like to speak in plainer language.
Well, I know you do a podcast with Scott Galloway called Regene Moderates, and there was a time when being a moderate was so out of fashion. Yeah, and I wonder if you think, as a result of this election that suddenly we're going to say, maybe it's not so bad to be moderate. But how do you fight sort of extreme conservativism, which it has been pulled over to the right with moderation because it seems like the whole idea is to get people all worked up right, and
moderation isn't very sexy. Jessica, No, but I think that if the number one thing that people took away from Kamala's campaign, which was she's too left for me, And part of that was they did a great job at amplifying clips from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty and that Kamala didn't want to deal with them, right, and she net down and say like she never really answered that those questions very well. Well.
Obviously the view question from Sunny Houston that was the nuclear explosion, like how are you different from Biden? And I saw you speaking about it where you're like, how do you want to have an answer to that?
Right?
And Biden doesn't seem to me to be someone who would be aggravated if you said, respectfully, we did a lot of great things, but this is what a Kamala Harris presidency does.
Definitely, we don't know, we don't know how. No, but he would have responded to that.
But what's he going to do to her?
Yeah?
No, no, no, I agree.
I think she went too out of her way not to hurt his feelings.
And we also have to think about not only winning back the working class voters, but there are moderate Republicans and centrists that do not want to go home to the Republican Party. Even if the top of the ticket in twenty twenty eight, it shouldn't be Donald Trump. God knows what he'll do, but let's say it's some JD
Vance or other. They want to be part of a pro democracy party, and we are that, and we have to be reasonable to be able to integrate them and make it easy for the liz Cheneys of the world to want to be part of us, not just when
there's someone with you know, authoritarian tendencies. I think to be you know, fair about it at the top of the ticket, but when they're running a normal Republican to just say, actually, what the Democrats are selling resonates with me, and they're better for the economy, and they respect people's personal liberties and they're not insane.
You know. It seems to me that you are a role model for people on how to get out of their bubbles, how to have conversations with people respectfully, with compassion.
I'm writing a book about it.
Well you should because and I'd love to saying.
Your copy it will be down the line. It takes a lotting a book. I did not know about the schedules of these things.
Yes it does. I can test to that. But I really think that you would have a lot to say about respecting people, having conversations, meeting people where they are, and not ending with a food fight at the holiday dinner table, because I think we really need that if we're going to solve some of the thorniest issues that are facing our country.
Yeah, I hope so. And I appreciate the compliment. Thank you. I take it really seriously. And I know that also for a lot of people around this country, I'm the only Democrat that they might know in their lives, right because there are people that are siloed, and I think it's so important to represent the values of this party that I care deeply about in a sane and approachable way where you know, they can't write me off as someone that's lost their mind or someone who can't say
something that's obvious. And obviously I have my moments, you know, where I am over my skis as far as they're concerned. But generally speaking, I think if you you know, had my colleagues on, they would all say, I'm just like a pretty moderate rational Democrat.
Do all ever like have dinner, go out for drinks?
So well, the it's I go out with Jesse Waters's wife on my own, you know, Janine. I've recycled the story now, but like Janine who has a grandson around the same age as my oldest who turns three today, Happy birthday, Cleo. Got me baby formula when there was no baby formula. I don't she knew a guy. I don't ask questions when Janine says I know somebody I can get you that. But like, there it is. It is genuinely the messed up family that you see on TV.
And I really appreciate that and the opportunity to get to talk. I talked to four point three million people a day about what Democrats are doing right or what frankly translating the perception that they've gotten through people who are not being honest brokers with them, or a communication system for the party that I think really failed, you know, and I hate having to start a sentence with like
I would have said it this way. You know, I'm not auditioning to be press secretary or anything like that, but you know, you know what that's like where you're like, that's actually not helpful. It's not helpful, and it's not the truth. It's not what the policy actually does, it's not what happened at X event.
You know. Yeah, definitely, Well I could talk to you for hours. Yeah, but thank you so much for being on this podcast. Thank you for what you do every other day. I guess on follow me a week and I feel like you should probably have your own show where you talk one on one which shy call Suzanne Scott.
Yeah.
Great? Do I get to get percent?
I mean, see is going to fight you for it? But yeah, great work. Be with you.
Thank you, Jessica.
This is great.
Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me, a subject you want us to cover, or you want to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world, reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian
Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter wake Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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