Frank Luntz: Behind the Polls

it's the same. There are the logistical issues, there's getting around a convention hall. There's all that stuff, the role call, the funny outfits, the buttons, the pens, which I always love from the great state of Delaware, where the ice cream bars or coldest, where the orange juice is sweetest. But on another level, this is really a strange campaign because even though we're in Philadelphia for the Democrats, all

anybody's talking about Donald Trump. I built the business, and I didn't start it with a million dollar check from my father. Safeguarding freedom and security is not like posting a TV reality show. This guy doesn't have a clue about the middle class, not a clue. This is not like any campaign I've seen or I've ever read about in history. It's something we're going to be talking about with our guest Frank Lentz, who's coming up in a minute.

Frank is a Republican pollster. He's also part time comedian or a wannabe. We tease him and call him checky, but he's got a million jokes. In fact, we could hardly get him out of the studio without him telling us some Chris Christie jokes which I will not repeat, and a Bill Clinton joker too. He was fair and balanced, like Fox News where he works and CVS. He's quick to point out, yes, even his media contracts are are balanced.

But we should just tell you a little bit about him, because even though you may not have heard his name, I think you're going to be the earlier with some of his work. He's really come up with the words that have really defined our politics over the last twenty years. So when we say climate change rather than global warming, when we say death tax rather than a state tax, energy exploration instead of oil drilling. He's really helped Republicans over the years try to position their policy a little

bit differently to appeal to more voters. His critics believe that you know, he's creating a misleading impression. He's he's steering the voters to believe something that isn't true. His supporters say, this is what's happened in politics throughout history, and he's just a very effective strategist. We'll talk to him about being sort of the official GOP wordsmith, but also about the mood of the country because Frank travels everywhere.

He's talked to so many people over the past several months, and I think he has his finger on the pulse, perhaps better than almost anyone. So I can't wait to year from him so he can share with us what people are sharing with him. Frank Lens is in the house. I know I'm in trouble, doctor, Frank leans, we should get the full title. That's right, you have a PhD. Right, According to Bill Maher, he wasn't quite sure. Frank Lean says, over here, and doctor doctor, it's great to see your doctor.

I know we just watched that boy. He was tough on you. Frank was that hard? It was awful. It was awful. It was awful because I had come on to be candid. I had come on to have a real conversation, not take a partisan position. I was specifically told by the executive producer, don't tell jokes. That's not let be serious, be be open, be candid, And every time I tried to do it, it was another Trump joke and another Trump jokes. What's going on? I saw

all week? It is now tied Trump and Hillary forty forty. Explain this to me how and in saying racist and orange grease paint can be tied with the former First Lady. And I kept waiting for the real conversation to happen, and it never did. Well. Clearly he viscerated you because you are associated with Republicans and Bill is clearly a liberal Democrat. So I think it wasn't necessarily a match made in Heaven from the get go, right, but it was.

I said to his executive producer that he blew a good opportunity because there are times, just as you have comedies that have a very serious show. There's humor in it, but they deal with a serious topic. I was ready to really open up, and I'm not doing that again. I learned from this politics does not and media does not reward candor. It does not reward the truth. It rewards a real articulated, well explained facts and information. But if you are being reflective, you are punished for it

and you are not celebrated for it. It's kind of like your version of the Colonel Jessu. You can't handle the truth, no, because that's entertainment. Yeah, you're actually trying to describe what you're seeing in the country because you do more focus groups than probably any other professional in America.

I'm the closest thing to a mayor, but I'm a mayor For the company's group of eighteen women to Studio fifty seven yesterday and included six Republicans, six Democrats, and six independents, and they did not find much common ground. Every night, I'm seeing or thirty new people every night, I'm learning what bothers them. I'm learning their challenges and their hopes and dreams and and it's all positive or negative, but I'm hearing it in reality. So let's start with

Donald Trump. I want a word or phrase for you all to describe Donald Trump patriot, clown show, hate monger. And so every night when I go to sleep, I take that with me. It doesn't leave me. And in fact, you don't seem like a happy camper right now, because I guess the things you're hearing out there in the country are not happy. When I started this back in

I don't know there was Ross Perot who I worked with. UM. Even the anger had its borders that you would disagree with somebody, but you would not take them outo the wood shed. Today, in our current political environment, there are no limits. You have the right to get into someone's face and scream at them. You have the right on national television to insult them. You have the right not to stop at the commercial break, but to continue to pontificate because you've got the right to be heard. This

is one collective temper tantrum. And for me and I never went through this, it is like mom and dad fighting with each other, and I have to make the choice who I'm going to live with for the next four years. I don't want to live with either of them. It's it's it's rough. Can I ask you a question. We we've talked about this a lot. Why are people so angry? Because if you look at so many of the indicators, the economy has been growing for seven years.

Unemployments below five cut in half since President Obama took office. Yeah, wages are stagnant there, they're not rising like they used to. H Long term unemployments a larger challenge, but we face far worse in the past. Why are people so uniquely angry now? Because the three people who are sitting at this table do not feel any economic suffering at all, and that if any of us lost our jobs or something went wrong, we'd be okay. For fifteen or of America,

they are doing great. And the truth is the wealthy shouldn't be angry with Barack Obama. They should embrace him because this has been the best time for them. The people who are suffering, and I say this as someone who's right of center, the people who are suffering are the working class. They had forty hour a week jobs

ten years ago. Today it's twenty eight hours a week because their employer is trying to avoid paying for health care even though they claim that healthcare and it has uh provided care for eight to ten million people who did not have it before. There's six to eight million people who lost their health care and almost everyone has seen it increased significantly the cost. We no longer believe that our employers will be there for us ten years

from now. We have no faith in our retirements. Social Security doesn't pay for anything, and so if you are a family of four at about fifty two fifty four thousand dollars a year, you have no savings, you have no safety net, and you have no future. And if you're in your fifties or sixties, you have no opportunity to fix it. So I'm living through the fact that some of the things that I believed as recently as a few years ago have proven not to be true.

And both sides are failing. And I'll make one last point. I apologize for no it's fascinating, which is that it's all right, But this is this is my life every day, which is I don't want to live in a country tree that is in decline. I went to Oxford, I got my defail from Oxford University, and I talked to these kids whose parents were in charge of the world, not grandparents, but parents. I don't want to be them.

I will give up, and I've done well. I will give it up for a country that is happy and healthy and progressing, a country where most people do get to experience their dreams if they work hard and play by the rules. But that's not America right now. And so I I jokingly say I'm moving to New Zealand, the southern Island because the weather is good, people are great.

But it's becoming less and less of a joke. I can understand that, and it's it is difficult because I do think the three people at this table are detached from reality on many levels. Brian told me about a statistic that what percentage Brian of people cannot deal with an unexpected four expense? For I think it's about the American people. This was a study from the Federal Reserve would not be able to afford an unexpected four expense. I think people are really really hurting, and and yet

there seems to be two America's in many ways. So is this solvable? I mean, can a president really change all of this? And are there limits to a presidential power? It was solvable in two thousand eight, Barack Obama had the capability. And I'll just illustrate this with what I

saw on January nine. I came to the inauguration. I was not a supporter of his, and I saw fifteen year old um inner city youths helping seven year old women with mink coats and diamonds that are worth more than this studio helping them across this area because there were barriers and all sorts of security, and I saw people who have never talked to each other before ever have the most amazing conversations. And on that day I actually thought, Wow, this guy is going to be transformational.

And it went to hell so fast. You surely can't put it all on his shoulders. Aren't there greater forces at work here? Frank like globalization, this transition we're witnessing from an industrial to a technological society, the fact that you can't necessarily go into your father's business as a as a blue collar worker because manufacturing has has declined. In some cases, yes, it's been moved overseas, but in

some cases it's been replaced by technology and robots. So I mean, aren't there bigger things that are affecting this this sort of summer of our discontent? But this country went through a global war that we possibly could have lost, and we came out of it stronger. We went through two global wars in the twentieth century. We have had we have we have went from the horse and buggy to the car. I'm not saying there aren't things that you can do. But I'm just saying, can you blame

all these things? I'm President Obama. I was going to cite Nancy Pelosi. Republicans could not meet with her. I did not know this at the time. She would not meet with a Republican. A Republican could not carry legislation, a Republican could not offer an amendment, a Republican could not lead a debate. They were completely and totally cut off. So when I actually got a chance to ask questions of them, and this wasn't this It took till two

thousand twelve. I do not interview a single Republican who had a single meeting in her office, not one. Democrats were told, do not talk to them, do not engage with them, do not allow them to co sponsor legislation. It's our turn now. And that is that after they said things like we our goal is to make sure Barack Obama has a one term presidency. Though that was January five of two thousand seven, before Barack Obama is

even president. If you remember, the two thousand sixth election is what brought Nancy Pelosi the speakership, not two thousand and eight, and so all that poison had been unleashed, and the one that the Democrats used to just really hate New Engrich new Gangwich set aside. Every single day, every day of his speakership, he met with Democrats, which used to drive Republicans nuts. In fact, to actually go

back and correct history. Newt was almost overthrown by Republicans, not by Democrats, and the Republicans who are trying to overthrow him were angry with him for spending too much time with the other party. Wasn't it the contract with America? And that he kind of the chickens came home to roost after he suggested what many people saw as draconian measures.

You mean what Bill Clinton talked about at his convention speech about welfare reform, that after years and years, they both they actually agreed, they compromised, that they compromised on legislation that balanced the budget, that you had a Democratic president and a Republican Congress that actually brought the budget into legitimate balance. That you had a Democratic president and a Republican Congress that actually got welfare reform and put

people back to work. It can work. And gang which is not the easiest guy to get along with, and Bill Clinton is not a walk in the park, and yet they got it done. And we don't have that right now. But both parties have a kind of a partisan disaster narrative when things took a turn, So like sore, she's too happy that you're explaining why I feel the way that I do. So I'm here at the Democratic Convention. They're treating me great. Well, let's talk about being here

at the Democratic National Convention. What are your thoughts in terms of what you've seen so far. I don't understand why the Clinton campaign didn't turn to the Sanders people and say stop the protests. You're making us look foolish. At the Republican Convention, they booed Ted Cruz and that

lasted for twenty four seconds and that was it. That's one Number two is I refuse, I absolutely refuse to demonize any of these people, because if you have a conversation with them, either Clinton or Sanders, there is a there is both a fear and a hope and a commitment to something better. I don't like it when the two conventions for four nights just abuse each other. You have every right to hold Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton accountable for what they have said and what they have done.

But it gets so extreme. You know when when people were talking about the Republican Convention and particularly Donald Trump's acceptance speech, they used words like dark, depressing, dystopian, and yet it played much better in the real world. Is that because people are feeling dark and depressed? It's because people they felt that he told the truth and that's what they want more than anything else. They just want you to look them straight in the eye. Don't be

politically correct, don't be gentle, tell us the truth. Now you have basically of the country that still is positive and hopeful. You have to believe our best days are behind us, and there's the that's in the middle. Trump was specifically appealing to those and basically saying, they're not going to tell you the way things are. I will. You may not like it, but I'm going to be direct with you. And yet, do you think the solutions

that he's providing are specific enough and realistic? At some point, aren't people going to be saying where's the beef? I mean when he has a responsibility in the debates to do that, but just in the debates. But the first step is to tell the truth. The first step is to articulate how people feel. But you're telling you that Donald Trump telling the truth. I mean, the fact checkers kind of went nuts during his speech because he was describing crime out of control immigrants is uh, you know,

modern mob of of violence around the country. He was describing unemployment as it as far worse than it actually is. Is he trying to create the prices? But it's America's version of the truth. This is how Americans feel. And so every time that the Obama administration says, hey, we've turned the corner, things are getting see the Obama people don't feel it. And the problem is people in a bubble. Uh, when's the last time that you had a meal at Denny's.

It's been a long time. I admit I prefer waffle House. Have you do you really go there? Sometimes? I live in Las Vegas and I go to some of these cheaper face and there's no reason for me too, but it's what I do, and I probably stop going to those cheap things. Look at me. I basically it's like I like being around Chris Christie because then I look like the after photo rather than the before. And you know, I know, Jackie Love, I'm not sure you're going to

be able to make that claim. I'm I'm going to explode, But I see the people who are there, and when I'm up, when I'm getting food is the best time because people's guards are down. And to ask them, why did you choose here? Why are you at this hotel? And the answer is, we can't afford a vacation. This is the only place that we can afford. And we drove here. We drove here from Phoenix, we drove here

from Los Angeles, we drove here from San Diego. They can't even afford We always assume, right that when you work hard, you get one week or two weeks off and you take your family somewhere. This is all that they can do because they can get a hotel room for forty nine dollars a night that the whole family can have a big meal for under sixty bucks. And that's and when gas prices were at four dollars a gallant,

they couldn't even do that. Let's talk about why they're attracted to Donald Trump, because I know, in many ways he's a vessel or proxy for the anger and frustration and resentment that many people are feeling. I get that, But then don't you need to take a step further. What will he do? How is he going to change things? And it's these broad, broad strokes, But that's the problem. Frank just wrote a card and I just wrote the word.

But so everyone listens. I used the word ass on Hannity yesterday, which would have got me into trouble, except one of the Benghazi guys used the effort after me, so then everyone forgot that. I think they asked, is the mascot of the Democratic Party? Yes, and I and I fill up the chairs with mine. So it's always the butt and these people listen to the Trump voter listens for the button. To my surprise, when Donald Trump has asked the question about Rosey o'donald in that first debate,

and I thought he was done, I admit it. I thought it was over between John McCain and and Mexican rapists and all of that. I thought he was done. Political correctness matters so much to these people, and the fact that he's willing to say things unedited, uncensored, just put it out there. It agitates people what he says, but they're so grateful that he says it. And now look at the reverse. Hillary Clinton hasn't delivered a traumatic line,

hasn't stepped outside her comfort comfort zone. Ever, Donald Trump runs to the TV cameras, she runs away from them. Donald Trump never delivers a prepared speech, except for what three times now in the whole campaign. She can't do anything but a prepared speech. He is way too loud, she's way too careful. He's way too out there. She's way too controlled. And for the average American, they want to look you in the eye, which is why instance

people take their sunglasses off. They want to look you in the eye and decide do you really mean it? With Donald Trump, they believe that for all his faults, he's a real guy. They believed that for Hillary Clinton, that for all her experience, she's not and that is what could prevent her from being president. We want authenticity, what about experience and confidence? Experience is less important than judgment. Tell me what you're going to do, not what you've

done already. She's done the sort of traditional thing that you do in campaigns, and maybe that doesn't work anymore where. She has a big policy team, and they put out numbers and they send it to analysts and the newspaper reporters, you know, pick it apart. Trump has put out tweets and statements, some of which contradict each other, and they're tied. And and what does that tell you want to hear

about programs? People want to hear about platitudes. No, they want to hear they want to know who you are. If she had come clean on the Clinton Global Initiative, if she did an interview and I'm going to be specific with Leslie stall On sixty minutes, and Leslie was the way she usually is, which is tough but fair, and she were to say, I am far from perfect, and I have made significant mistakes in my career. But

I asked that you examine the balance. I asked that you look at the things that I got wrong and compared to the things that I got right. And it is essential that I level with the American people because I'm asking them for their support. If she did that,

she is the next president. If Donald Trump announces on day one that he will conduct a forensic audit of the US budget and brought in Deloitte Ian why KPMG brought in the brought in the big and within one d days, we will go through every line and we will cut every single program that doesn't work, and if you are responsible for that program, you will be looking

for work. He's the next president. She needs to level, she needs to be candid, humble, He needs to be specific with one program that bothers the American people more than anything else. Waste, government waste, Washington waste even more than government waste, because people they don't have issues as much with their local community or even their state government. What they hate is when Washington does it. But he hasn't done it, and she hasn't done it, and I

don't know if either of them will do it. And so I go across the country. I eat in my Denny's, I go to my buffets, and I get depressed. And every once in a while I get to come to a Philadelphia and then get hot and depressed. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back. Let's get back to the of you. Why do you think Hillary Clinton isn't doing more of what you said? Why didn't she apologize immediately after the email scandal and

and say, you know what, I screwed up. This was so this was a stupid but honest mistake, and I'm not even asking and not even suggesting she needs to use that word, because I know that there'll be people who would hear this podcast and say she has nothing to apologize for. But she did make a mistake. She

said she mistakes. If I were her campaign manager, I would tell her to lower the podium as she walks out onto the stage, have the podium go down slowly, and say to the audience, into the world, my name is Hillary Clinton. I have been a lawyer, a researcher, second Chary of State of an United States senator. I have prepared my entire life for what is arguably the toughest job on the face of the globe. And I don't need a teleprompter to tell you where I stand

or what I will do. And then she delivers the speech that she has delivered without a podium, without that teleprompter, that's right out the center. She can do it. I was going to say, she's actually incredibly gifted, almost as good a speaker without notes as Bill Clinton is. I think she's just been so so careful during the course of this campaign. I mean I have seen her walk around a stage without a teleprompter, without notes and just

dazzle an audience, the contrast between her and Trump. If she were to do this would be so significant, and she can absolutely do it, so why not Why do it the way it's always been done before? When you know that the American people desperately want you to look them straight in the eye. I think the visual of that would be very powerful. But I'm more interested in what the content of the speech is going to say. And the ch American isn't no, no, no, no no.

I don't think that's true. I think that if she conveys true honesty and and humility and talks about you know, I think some of her flaws, perceived or real, I think it could be very moving as well. And I think what Franks saying, I think what Frank's saying this really interesting is the issues, the substance, the specific ten point plans, they don't matter very much to voters. Well,

that's what David Brooks wrote about the other day. He talked about, you know, with Democrats, the answer to every problem is a program. But what Donald Trump is being so effective at is really really kind of measuring the mood of the country and calibrating his statements to to reflect that mood, and that the Democrats need to somehow do that too, and it's just not in their DNA.

Their DNA is to be much more specific on policy points when they need to be more touchy feeling right, well, there will be a whole lot of Republicans would argue with that that their DNA is a government solution when they need to think more about how solutions are delivered on the local level, uh public private partnerships with a

focus on the private rather than the public. That the problem with the Democrats is that they continue to focus on Washington, which has never been more in popular than it is right now. If that becomes the context, she represents the Washington solution, which she has for quarter century. Trump represents the American solution. Trump will beat her. If that's what the context is. What worries you most about

a Clinton presidency or a Trump presidency. What worries me most about a Trump presidency is that I want to see more or knowledge. I want to see a better understanding of the consequences of every decision. The smartest political person I ever worked for was New Gingrich, and he could tell you that if we do A, then B and see, you're gonna happen, and if they happen, then that's going to impact D, E, N F. And you could go all the way through the alphabet. So he

saw the impact. For example, if you're gonna do environmental legislation and say we will not build homes here, you cannot build twenty story tall apartments. Now what's the consequence of that. It means that you're then going to have to build sixty miles away. More cars are going to be on the road, so it's gonna put more C O two into the air. So then you say, okay, we're gonna add a catalytic converters, so you have to address the pollution. So what does that do? Car prices

go up. People can't afford it. They're gonna have to buy older cars, use cars. He knew the consequences of it. That's not what Trump does. And I really want someone now who if they say we have to do X, that they will know the consequences to Y and Z. He has said things like we're going to round up

and deport eleven million illegal immigrants. Nobody believes that. I don't know if if Donald Trump gets elected, I'll be prepared to bet you right now that that never happens, and why is he saying it, and why doesn't it matter that he doesn't mean it? You need Donald Trump to answer those questions for you. When we did a session with Republicans and immigration. And by the way, Republicans want a pathway to legal status. Republicans do, Marco Rubio,

Jeb Bush, But but average Republicans, grassroots Republicans. Republicans believe that if you were brought here through no fault of your own, if you're brought here as a child, you should be allowed to stay here as an adult, if you go to college and you have a job. Republicans believe that building a wall is not the answer to illegal immigration, although they do want genuine border security. But those weren't the Republicans who were nominated. It's Donald Trump

that was nominated. And who who is for mass deportation in a wall. So how can you say, on the one hand, they want these sort of center right moderate positions, and on the other they nominate the person with the most extreme position because they keep electing members to Congress

that really do want to get this resolved. They really do want solutions rather than platitudes, and rather than this anger, and they believe even as they voted for Once again, I come back to they wanted to vote for somebody who said it like it is. They wanted to vote for someone who wasn't Millie Mouth. There's someone who they thought that would buckle. And Trump is a tough, tough guy. So that's why they voted for him, even if they

disagree with him on policies like immigration. There's a broader point you're making that. I think it's really interesting you said Trump is being rewarded for telling the truth, for saying it like it is, and yet so much of what he says is verifiably not the truth. It's the truth as he sees it. How do you square those two. They rewarded Hillary Clinton for have in the experience even though they absolutely agreed with Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders is

the heart and soul of the Democratic Party today. Bernie Sanders agenda and platform is what a majority of Democrats believe. I don't believe that platform is electable at this point, but Bernie Sanders is the most popular and credible national politician alive today, even higher than John McCain, now, much higher than Barack Obama. Way higher than Hillary Clinton, are any of the Republicans? Jeff Bush, Mitt Romney, Bernie Sanders,

an avowed socialist, is the most popular politician. And the reason why is because he said what he meant and meant what he said. And even though the public disagrees with all that free stuff he wants to give, they loved him for saying it because they thought he really believed it. It's the same thing with Trump, and the only reason why you don't say it is because you're not with them. You're not with these people. How many Trump rallies did you go to when you sat from

beginning to end? I went to toning. That's not bad. How many you go to? Zero? Zero? You gotta go to one because the music is great if you like, if you like, uh, no, classic rock. He I gott admit something because and now I get animated. No, don't rap, No, we have to. I'm getting a note from our producer that I have seen everything, and I'm jaded and cynical. So I'm watching waiting for the rally, and people start

to commend here it's it's about to begin. The most powerful guitar riff of any song, to me, is the opening of revolution. When John Lennon plays that screeching guitar, the moment that that song hit and I can't I can't say the moment the first chord. Trump steps up on stage and everyone goes nuts, and you hear and you think revolution, Donald Trump politics. And I felt it for the first time in this entire campaign. I felt it, as did people in the room. And that's what's going

on right now. When Bernie Sanders takes the stage, the guy is so old that takes him an hour and a have to watch sixteen minutes. He's so old. His favorite painting is the last supper is the second waiter from the left. The only time he doesn't have to pee is when he's paying. That's how old this guy is. And and and but what did he do? He had twenty one year olds eating out of the palm of his hand. These rallies, they were all positive. People were so funny, even people who knew what I do and

knew that I worked for Fox. They'd come over and they would ask me, is he gonna do okay? Is he gonna be okay? And I told them, I don't think he's gonna win. But your ideas are gonna win. Watch what happens. It's not just about the man, it's also about the principles. And his principles are changing the Democratic Party, which means they're going to change the country. And that and and young people were so tuned in on that. Do you think they're going to come out

and support Hillary Clinton in the end. So right now it's se of Sanders, people support Clinton on decided supporting Donald Trump. She has to take that and bring it up to nine. She has to. If she does that, she's probably the next president. If it is below eighty five, she may well lose because states that matter, Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada. These are states where it's very close. And if you're losing your own base, then you're going to have a challenge.

I believe she wins at this point, but I'm but I'm also convinced that Trump could win if he runs a solid campaign and does well in the debates. President Obama said is much this week in an interview. I have to ask you what you're most afraid of when it comes to a Clinton presidency. Um, I'm most afraid that this partisanship and this rancor gets even worse. She's known for reaching across the aisle. I feel like I'm

being a Hillary apologist, but I'm not. I'm just saying the fact of the matter is when she was senator. That's again, in addition to being a good listener. One of the things they tout about her governance that she does work with Republicans. She understands the schmooze factor, having a drink in the Oval office with with those who

may think differently than she does. Bill Clinton talked about Tom Delay at the Democratic Convention, and I'm sitting next to Antonio via Rigosa and I said, my god, you would never have heard Tom DeLay's name mentioned at a Republican convention. That's right, because he was an adoptive father, right, he adopted a child. But he's being celebrated at the Democratic convention. And then who's the next name? He mentions,

new Gingrich never once mentioned at the Republican convention. So here is Bill Clinton celebrating these conservative Republicans at the Democratic I'm thinking, man, my coludes are kicking back up again. And explained so much, Frank, and it's like, don't do the edible from Colorado. Guys. By the way, I've got one piece of advice as a way to close this. Don't buy the marijuana licenses in Colorado. Buy the pizza parlor licenses right next door. That's how you'll make money.

Or that's that's good. Also, can I ask one to last political questions? So there's a theory right now among a lot of political professionals that you win by pumping up your base, that it's a retro idea to reach to swing voters in the center. And that's a big divide in our politics between those who believe in just going for the base and those who want to appeal to swing voters. Where do you come out on that? I come out on trying to basically blur the lines

between base and center. And so I'm trying to reach six of the country or seventy of the country, not fifty one, and obviously not a hundred. I know that people are going to disagree with me. I accept that. I don't want them to be enemies of mine. I want them to be opponents. And that's where we've gotten it wrong. We now think that the people who we

don't appeal to our our enemy. We have to lower the decipline level so they see us as people that we disagree with, but not as people that should be punished or destroyed. The rap on you, I guess in some circles is that you have inflame some of this divisiveness with words that work and words that work. So how does that inflame? Well, you know, because they sometimes misrepresent rather than school choice. I'm the one who argued for parental choice or moving from UH vouchers to scholarships.

And you know why, because you can afford to send your kids to any school they want to go to. But the kids that I really want to help, the ones that actually need that opportunity, they can't, and I want to make sure that parental involvement, parental control happens. Another example is is in terms of taxation, I don't believe you should be taxed. I don't believe that you're the product of your success should be taken away from you because you die. So it was moved from in

the state tax to a death tax. This is what you've said, Frank on emotion versus rationality and facts. And I'm curious because I think it's very relevant to this election. It's all emotion. But there's nothing wrong with emotion when we are in love. We are not rational, We are emotional. My job is to look for the words that triggered the emotion. We know that words and emotion together are

the most powerful force known to mankind. So you make no apologies for coming up with these trigger words if you will that make people feel a certain way. By the way, Bill Clinton does it. Bill Clinton is the best at it. I'm watching him yesterday. This. I learned my craft, not from New Gingrich Katie. I learned my craft from Bill Clinton because he better than anyone I've ever seen, including Ronald Reagan. When he draped his hands over that podium and his voice would get like why

would his voice get like this? You know why, because he wants to be emotional. His normal voice is this. But no, he gets like this because he cares so much. And all I'd say is, if it's good enough for Bill Clinton, and it's good enough for Ronald Reagan, it's good enough for America. But on the other hand, but there's the word again, but that's good. But on the other hand, you know, Clinton lied about his affair with Monica Winsky. You won the PolitiFact Lie of the Year

award for describing Obamacare as a government takeover. So I think the critique of you, and by the way, what happened after a year after when it actually when it is that a number? If you did your Google search, you'd see that a number of newspapers wrote that, in fact, I was correct, six million people lost their coverage. That is a government ego of healthcare when they actually acknowledge, Well, no, maybe you can't necessarily keep your doctor. In reality, but

that's not what you said. Was all that you said it was a government takeover. It's not a government takeover. It was a plan that was developed at the Conservative Heritage Foundation. Look, once again, you are speaking in ways that the American people do not feel. They cannot afford your coat, they cannot afford your shirt. Does that give you license to manipulate? Manipulate? It is the true incite people to think things when they're not necessarily So you

think you think Obamacare is a tremendous success. No, do you think Obamacare eight to ten million people were now insured, they would call it a success. I think for the other people who lost their insurance or their premiums went up, it is not. Yes, And I have many friends who have complained about that it is not a success. So net net, I guess it's pretty neutral. Well, it depends who you ask. We still have a majority of Americans

who say that it isn't successful, which doesn't happen. Social Security was regarded as a success once it got started Medicare, but the majority don't want it to be so, So it's it's a it's a people were conflicted about it, and it's not a government takeover. That's the question. The government is now determining our healthcare. No, they're not. The government determined what plans would be offered. You know what

we should wrap She's about to have a stroke. She has because she's listening to you and going, wow, that is just not really true. Hanging there though, I'll hang in there. I'll get some more lectures. And by the way, and I'm just I'm just enjoying watching the two of you spar the two of us. We're not gonna be around when Social Security goes belly up, but I'm going to be around. Yes, you will be there. You'll have

a chance to experience it. You know, we we'd love to have you back because actually we did want to spend a lot of time talking about like, how you got into this crazy business. I don't want to be in the son of two Dennists. I want to check out your teeth. Oh no, they're yellow. But not a single cavity. I've never had a single cavity. But I used to throw up in my father's chair. I felt so bad for him. Really, yes, I I don't understand what it is about Jews that we like to put

our hands in people's mouths. Just speak for yourself. There's something in our religion that just Jews become Dennists. I don't know what it is. So you used to vomit? Oh yeah, why you're gagging reflex? Yes, and so what we finally figured out is when I had to go to the dentist, I was not allowed to eat for a day. Now, I agree, I'm fat today, I'm in shape if round is a shape. But when I was a kid, I was a rail So my mother was

very conflicted a Jewish mom. What do we do. Do we prevent Frankie from eating so he won't get sick in Lester's chair? Or do we let him eat because he's so thin that he looks like he could just blow away and then he gets sick and all the patients have to deal with it, so going to the dentist is very traumatic. I was a child that's going to say, so the next episode is going to be frank lens no, Frankie l Frankie. Oh, my father used to do that in public in front of al Haig.

I met Henry Kissinger with my dad and he would always call me Frankie and they would look at me. And then I realized as I got older that actually the I e at the end of the name helps you, because you can't really hate someone named Frankie, but you can hate someone named frank I love hearing from Frank about what people are saying, but I am hungry for solutions, and I don't feel like anyone is talking enough about

how we improve the state of the country. And I hope he'll come back when the candidates themselves start articulating their visions to make the country better. Well. One of the things that Frank said that really struck me is the voters don't care that much about policy and solutions. I think he really believes that they care about affect and personality. And who seems to be telling it like it is as opposed to who has the ten point

planned to fix infrastructure? And maybe that's not that interesting, But just basing your vote on somebody who you know is authentic and is channeling your anger that scares the bejesuits out of me. Yeah. It was always funny to me when I would see people in focus groups on TV say, oh, well, I don't really care what they stand for. I just want to know that you know the person is authentic and he means what he says. Well, policy really matters, and campaign promises are the best barometer

of what presidents are going to do in office. So I think, no matter what you believe, we should pay attention to what these people are saying in their ads and speeches and definitely in the upcoming debates, and not just their tweets. I'd love to hear what you think. So the big question of the show today is do you think America is in decline or are you optimistic

about the future. So give us a call at nine to nine to four, four six, three seven, leave us a voicemail, and as always I will be standing by the phone. Poor Brian, you need to get a hobby. Meanwhile, if you're hungry for more election coverage, you can check out my fellow podcaster David Gregory. His recent honest and in depth interview is with vice presidential nominee Tim Kane. His show is called The David Gregory Show and you can find it on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you get

your podcasts. Thanks to Gretta Cone and the right Reverend John de Lure for producing this show. Thanks to Mark Phillips for our theme music, and please subscribe, rate and review It really helps listeners find the show. So we'll talk to you next time, and thanks so much for listening. It's good headphones to take these with us, just like it will be five. But here's a great thing. They'll bill you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Hey everyone, this is Scott Ackerman of Comedy Bang Bang. I want to tell you

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