Cecile Richards: Planned Parenthood Boss on Making Trouble

for our listeners. Katie so having another baby. Brian, No, I'm not, But why don't we share your big news, Oh, the fact that I have an upcoming six hour documentary series airing on the Nazio channel. Thanks for bringing that up, Brian, I appreciate it because I have to tell you everyone,

I have never worked harder in my life. I've been doing this series since last August, criss crossing the country and trying to get a handle on some of these veccine social issue is that are plaguing the country and dividing us, it seems more than ever, and from political correctness to white working class anxiety to tech addiction. I think your goal was really to go deep on controversial

issues that affect all of us. Well, I don't know about you, Brian, but I feel like the news cycle is so fast and furious, and because of social media and the need to react instantaneously, we don't necessarily have the time to sit back and really consider and think about an issue. And so that's what I'm hoping to do. I'm hoping that people will see a variety of perspectives and points of view, and I'm hoping it will be a jumping off point for people to explore issues that, unfortunately,

in many ways, seem to be tearing us apart. I can't wait to watch it, and I really want to encourage our audience to do the same. And I don't mean to sound too much like North Korean State TV here, but I think it's going to be and go for it now. I think it's gonna be really special and worth everyone's time. Um, particularly since these issues are really glossed over on the news. I feel like we're not even scratching the surface and you actually arrive at a

deep understanding of this stuff. Well, I think one thing, Brian, and I know you and I have talked about this, but we're in the midst of seismic shifts in our society. It's like the industrial revolution replacing the agrarian society. We're going into a technological revolution. We're actually in the middle of it, and it's changing the way we think, we work,

we play, we interact, we relate, and demographic changes. We're going to be a minority majority country by and that's hard for a lot of people to grapple with because it means a lot of changes. So I'm hoping that people will take the time to say, let's get other perspectives, because, as we've often talked about, we're also increasingly tribalistic, living in silos, getting affirmation, not information. So it's more important than ever to see other points of view. So I

hope those things will be provided in this series. And uh, if I can just add, because you wouldn't say this about yourself, dear leader, your humility knows no bounds. You can call me d L Brian. One of the things I think you do very well is breaking down an issue without dumbing down the issue. In your previous movies on guns and gender identity and nutrition, you sort of help to explain the complications and complexity of a big, thorny issue so that all of us can understand it,

and I think that's exactly what you're doing here. And so for folks who want to check it out, a new episode of American Inside Out is going to air on the National Geographic Channel every Wednesday for six weeks starting on April eleven. And for our podcast listeners, we are going to keep the conversation going here as well. That's right. Our hashtag for this series is keep Talking. We don't want people to stop learning after the episode airs.

We want to facilitate conversation. So if you all watch the episode, or if you're curious about the topics, please call in or write to us with your questions for these experts, because my goal, as is the goal of National Geographic, is to keep talking. And we're going to talk more, as Katie says about how you can weigh in on these shows during the break. So for now, let's get back to today's guest on the pod, Cecile Richards. As Katie mentioned, she's been president of Planned Parenthood for

over a decade. She's been on the front lines of the fight for women's reproductive health for even longer than that. Her interests in activism and organizing, as you know Brian started very early. She grew up in Texas in this sixties. She can't pay for local democrats in a very conservative state. And if you're wondering how she caught the political bug, well two words and Richard's governor and Richards so three words was her mom. I mean talk about a political firecracker.

She was known for her one liners. Will have you listened to one of her most famous ones a little bit later. It's no surprise that Cecile takes a special interest in women who run for political office. In fact, she's going to be advising female candidates in the mid terms, who are expected, by the way to run in record numbers. Cecil has written a book called Make Trouble, Standing Up,

Speaking at and Finding the Courage to Lead. And since I'm thinking about writing my own book, I asked her why now, why she wanted to write this book and what the experience was like for her. I love writing it. I realized I have stored up all these stories and things that had happened, not only in my life and my mom's raised for governor and a whole lot of other things. It was just fun to get them out.

But I really was inspired to write it because after the last election, every day someone stopped me on the street or in the subway and said, what should I do? You know, the feeling like there was maybe one thing they could do that would change things in the country, or something they were concerned about. And I realized, I'm not going to talk to everybody in the subway, so I'll just put it in a book instead. And it

felt good. I it's sort of a combination of memoir and call to action, I guess, and I hope that it inspires people to do something to make a difference. So let's let's divide it up between memoir and call to action. Brian, is there a question that you'd like to ask the Seal sort of about her biography because it's so fascinating. There's so much to unpack just about that. Oh sure, I mean, let's talk about your mom and Richards for crying out lout. I mean, she wanted to

favorite figures in politics. Um, what was it like growing up in Dallas and Austin with Anne Richards as your mama? As you said, well, uh, you know, I grew up in Dallas and my parents at that in that era were against everything. I mean, it was just one of the every movement that came through Dallas, Texas. They were jumping onto and when the women's movement came alive, my mother just lost her mind. I mean she's like, this

was the greatest um. And then we eventually they'll moved to Austin, which was a much more progressive town, university town, and that's where my mom really had the first job, if you you know, outside the home. She ran Sarah Weddington's race for state representative. And I talked about this in the book that was before really women were running for office at all, and explained who Sarah Weddington is. I know it is had of a crazy turn of

faith that Sarah Weddington. Of course, at the age of twenty six, she argued the Roe versus Wade case before the Supreme Court. Of course one she was the youngest person ever um to win a case before the Supreme Court. And then when she came back home she decided to run for office. So of course the guys didn't want to run her campaign. So Mom said, well, you know, I've been raising these four kids. I'd love to do something else. She ran Sarah's race and then she kind

of got the political bug herself. So it's funny. I grew up, yes with this woman who has now thought of being kind of iconic feminist politician. But for many years she was mom. She was just my mom. I didn't know any better, you know, But she was such a I mean, a dynamic woman. I'll never forget at the Democratic National Convention when she made that speech and of course the famous line that is now etched into every political junkie's brain. Evermore, let's take a listen, poor George.

He can't help it. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth. And we should say, for just to provide a little more context, that was the Democratic Convention and she was attacking George H. W. Bush, who was then the presumptive Republican nominee for president. I was at that convention. I'll never forget that electric moment when your mom had that crowd eating out of the palm

of her hand because she was so so funny. Well, and you know, as she said, it was time that people here with a real Texas accent sounds like I think it was kind of great to have somebody who actually sounded like a lot of Americans. It was fun when she made that joke or gave that speech, Were you at all trepidacious that she was coming across as nasty or snarky or you know, because George Herbert Walker Bush was such a gentleman, and I remember thinking, oh,

that's tough. She said, clearly the crowd loved it. But did you wonder how it was playing in the rest of the country at all? Well? I didn't, of course. I was on stage with my write about in the book. I was on stage with my my two brothers and my sister, and just being in that room, it was she was landing every line. And you're right, Well, it's funny two things. One, people still stop me in the street and say I remember that line, and then they'll

then they'll repeat it. Usually they get it right, but there some you know, variation on the theme, so a lot of people do remember it. And then of course, um that George Bush. He actually was really quite good about it, and they I think that was There was never any animosity, But I do wonder these days. I was just doing an interview and I said, like, it is my great regret that their mom didn't live long enough for Twitter, because I think it might have been

pretty fun. Yeah, we've been pretty spicy on Twitter. I think so cecil. You said that your happiest moment was walking up Congress Avenue in Austin. Text is to your mom's inaugural as governor. But of course four years later George Herbert Walker's son defeated her for reelection. Was that the toughest moment? So, um, well, yeah, I mean, you can't have the ups without the downs, right, And I

think that was that was a really tough loss. But you know, um mom was one of these big believers that, uh, you just never look back, no regrets. She never never missed a beat, and I think for her, you know, it worked out. It was very liberating. She went on to do all kinds of great stuff, you know, kind of live her life, and for a lot of the rest of us, it made us all think about what are we going to do? You know, then after a loss like that, then how do you make a difference?

And of course I started a nonprofit in Texas, you know, we began to do other work. But I think that was a lesson that my mother taught me and that I tried to write about in this book, which is just you just have to look forward and keep going. Um. Having said that, you know, when your mom passed away, she was always so dear to me as a woman who was trying to be in some ways a trailblazer in television. Your mom would always talk to me and take the time to kind of encourage me. And I

was so heartbroken when she passed away. It must be hard for you to see you you must miss her every day. Oh, it's very hard, and she did. She cared so much about you, and care a lot about women who were trying to make it because she knew firsthand what it was like to be put down, to be second guest, to have a double standard. And you know, it's funny because people talk about women maybe not supporting each other. There was nothing that brought her greater joy

than seeing women be successful. I'm glad I got to start this job at Planned Parented before she passed away, although she got sick right just a month after I took the job, because she's the one who really encouraged me to do it. And I think if she weren't in my life, and hadn't been in my life, I don't know if I ever would have my biggest regret, and I'm sure we all feel this everyone who has children, is that she hasn't been around to see her her

grandkids grow into these phenomenal young people. And uh, but yeah, she's very much with me all the time. I was wondering, if you think about some of the things she has said and things she did when you yourself face challenges, because certainly the past eleven years have been challenging many times. And is there something that she told you that you

just hold in reserve, that you pull out when needed. Well, I think, well, one of course, and I do write about this, which is I almost didn't go to the interview a planned parented because I thought, well, I don't know how to do that job. I've never run anything like that. It's so big, and what if I fail? And Mom was the first one to say, look, you only regret the things you don't try, and so you know,

what's the worst thing that could happen? And I feel like that is a mantra, and I just kind of not only carry throughout my own life, but also try to encourage other women to take a chance that they might otherwise not not try. The other time, tim though, I just really had to channel her was going into that congressional hearing. You know, I had to appear before Congress for more than five hours to talk about planned parenthood.

And you know, she said, when I took this job at Planned parent and she said, you just got to remember, this is about women's health, and this is about millions of women who need access to affordable healthcare, and that's who you've got to be thinking about. And so it really helped me carry those women into that hearing room, women who frankly, are never going to have the chance to talk to Congress. But she was a really practical person. Focus on the people you're here to help before we

get to planned parenthood. You mentioned trailblazing women. And before you took that job, you work for Nancy Pelosi, who was the first woman's Speaker of the House, And I'm curious what your thoughts are on pressure for her to step aside as Democratic leader. UM. A lot of operatives in the party believe that would be better for candidates running for the House not to have to deal with her as an issue, because she's pretty popular nationally. Do

you think she's being treated unfairly? Look, I feel like we need more women in office, not less. In fact, I can't wait until Congress. If half of Congress could get pregnant, we would quit fighting about planned parented in birth control and a lot of other issues. I do think that she has been attacked mainly because she's so effective, and that is why I think the Republican Party has gone after her so hard. Is because she's the only leader.

Even when the Republicans are in control of Congress, she's the only leader who can actually get a bill passed. And frankly, we wouldn't have the Affordable Care Act if it weren't for Nancy Pelosi. And uh So, when I was reading your CV, I was interested in learning that you only worked for her for years. That right, like a year and a half. Congress was not for me, but I took it was like taking a graduate course

in the hill. I mean, I feel like I had this incredible perch of being able to see what it was like to run a leadership office and to bring new people into the system. And Nancy was an amazing teacher and we've remained friends. We've worked on all kinds

of women's healthcare issues ever since. So it was invaluable, but It's also a lessened to me that you know you can take a job and then say I'm actually better on the outside, which is really what I decided and kind of what led to my job at Planned Parenthood. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back with more of Cecil Richards in a moment. We heard from a lot of you about our last episode, which focused on the aftermath of the recent school shooting in Parkland, Florida.

One email from listener Emily Krutzer. Krutzer, Emily, I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing your name, but your email really stood out to us. That's right, she wrote this, Brian, my in laws recently purchased a pontoon boat for their lake house in Virginia. My husband and I are working through the online course to get our license to drive the boat. We commented last night how we could buy a handgun or an assault rifle quicker and easier than we could

complete the online voting license course. We have a toddler and hope we are able to make a change to our insane gun laws or lack thereof, because the world he is growing up in scares me. I think it scares a lot of people, Emily, and I think when people talk about gun control, they're really talking about common sense gun legislation, and so I think it shouldn't scare people.

I think people who want common sense gun laws also want to respect the ability of law abiding American citizens to own a gun and to buy a gun with certain safeguards. So thank you for writing in, and best of luck with your voting license. It's like, just because you want people who drive to have to get a license, doesn't mean you disrespect people who drive cars. Um. I

think you can balance rights and responsibilities anyway. We love hearing from all of our listeners and we definitely want to hear what you all think of the big issues that Katie is going to be tackling in her Natio series America Inside Out. To kick things off, the first episode on April eleven, is called Rewriting History. But it's

not writing as you would think of. It's writing R I G H T I n G, because we're really examining what history we've learned, what history we're taught, and the memorial landscape and how that reflects the American story, rightly or wrongly. I traveled throughout the South including Charlottesville, Virginia, where I went to college, to explore the controversy over removing Confederate statues and monuments. So, listeners, here's our question

for you. How do you feel about Confederate monuments and how about the building, schools, and roads all across the South that are named after Confederate generals? Do you think that they should be removed or renamed? And if not, why not? So please call and leave a message with your thoughts. I'd love to hear how you feel about this. Nine two two, four, four six three seven. I know people feel very strongly or feel free to email us at comments at correct podcast dot com. And now back

to our conversation with Cecil Richards. Let's step back and actually talk about Planned Parenthood and what it does and the services that it provides. Because I think there's a lot of misunderstanding and a number of people, particularly on the right, portray Planned parent clinics basically as abortion centers.

Can you just describe what Planned Parenthood actually does? Sure? So, we just celebrated our hundredth anniversary, and we provide health care to about two and a half million people every year. The vast majority of our services are preventive care, so for a lot of women we do birth control STI testing and treatment. For many women they get their their full women's health exams, so they get breast cancer screening

and cervical cancer screening. I know we went to a plan period at health Center, actually Katie and I together, and we also provide access to safe and legal abortion, which we think is really important. I will say, I think we do more on any given day to prevent

unintended pregnancy than any organization in America. And one of the I think untold stories about some of our success in the last few years, particularly when Obamacare helped get more coverage for women's birth control, is we're now at a thirty year low for unintended pregnancy in the US, and actually the lowest rate of teenage pregnancy ever. And to me, that is a sign of you know, the

fact that plan period is actually isn't the problem. It's the solution for many many folks in this country, and I think it's why our approval rating is really at an all time high now. At the same time, you know, there seems to be a real smear campaign against planned parenthood, and you and I have talked before, how can you change the perception up planned parenthood or how is that used to kind of galvanize conservatives in this country? And

and how do you how do you fight that? Well, it's I actually think there's some people that just not really don't really understand that in fact, we are very popular. In fact, I just looked at Fox News and Wall Street Journal did a poll last week. We were the most popular organization, uh that they pulled it. And that's coming from Fox News. So this is not a this

is not a any anything biased in our favor. And in fact, after this last really debate over funding for planned parenthood over the last fourteen months that has happened since the Trump at administration, in the Kaiser pole of Americans, including a majority of Republicans and Democrats, support federal funding for planned parenthood. So I think we are doing a

good job of telling our story. That said, there are always going to be people that don't want to support women's health care, whether it's provided by Planned parented or others. And in fact, I mean our patients, they come from every walk of life. They don't come in to make a political statement. Plenty of Republican women use Plan parenthood as their only source of healthcare. So what does it mean to defund planned parenthood and where does that stand?

Because it seems like that old chestnut resurfaces periodically. And it's also I think as many of these big hot button culture war issues have become a proxy for conservative bona fetus among the electorate in some ways. So help us understand this back and forth on defunding and where it stands now? Sure, And of course the original congressional member who wanted to defund Plan Parented was Mike Pence, who is now the Vice president. So that's really I think a lot of two where this is continue to

come from. So Plan Parented is not in the federal budget. That's one thing I'd love to make clear. It's not a line item. Uh. We basically work like every other healthcare provider that provides services inventive services, and that because of the High Amendment, if I'm not correct, federal funds cannot go to anything withding abortions. But they don't go for do they go for preventative health? Yes, essentially what Medicaid. This is for women on Medicaid or other public programs,

they could come to Planned parenthood. They may may go to another healthcare provider or a hospital. We simply get reimbursed for the services that we provide, and in fact, in the national Family Planning program, we are the largest provider of family planning. What what this administration is trying to do is basically say to two women, you can't go to planned parent period period. And that's so to me.

They're singling out one healthcare provider, even though in many of these communities we may be the only local healthcare provider of preventive care. I was in you know, I write about in the book. I went to Paul Ryan's district to see we have three health centers there. We only provide preventive services, family planning, We provide a breast

cancer screenings. You know, if he had been successful last year, those centers would not have been able to provide healthcare to the majority of women who would have happened to those women. I mean, that's the problem he and other politicians is that, well they can just go elsewhere. What I've been out there, there isn't an elsewhere to go. And that's what our patients were That's why they were calling Congress and why I think of the calls that

were coming into Congress were coming from women. They're saying, there isn't anywhere else for you to go. And if you don't, if you live in Kenosha, Wisconsin, driving to Milwaukee, UM for just for your basic healthcare is uh is sometimes impossible. So these I think are important facts for people to understand. Number one, the federal funding that reimburses Planned Parenthood doesn't support abortion services. And that's that's true today,

that's been true for years and years. And the second fact is that not all Planned Parenthood centers even provide abortion services, that many of them are just providing you know, basic health care to people. That's correct, UM. And and also that we operate just like every other hospital or healthcare provider, you know. I mean many hospitals provide abortion services and they also provide an abundance of other services.

I think the most important thing we can focus on this country is getting more people, uh, not only women, everyone access to affordable preventive care. Because we know, whether it is a cancer screening, whether it is just getting a well woman visit or getting family planning. It's incredibly important that we don't take away that access because we've seen in Texas where they did try to get rid of planned parenthood even though they were unsuccessful. Um, dozens

of women's health centers shut down. We've seen a rise in maternal mortality rates and fewer women being able to access birth control, and that just is just doesn't make any sense. What about all the laws that are being passed thee seal. I think it's what three hundred laws, state laws or local laws that prevent abortions from being

provided in certain geographic areas. So talk about that because US that is preventing a lot of women from not only getting preventative healthcare, but abortion services or they have to drive to another state. Um, how did all these bills get passed and what impact are they having on women?

I think the toughest thing is that any any legislation that's passed that that reduces women's access to healthcare, including abortion services or birth control, of course, it hits women who have already the least access to healthcare the most. And you're right, state legislatures, as they are increasingly frankly under Republican control, they use this as a political wedge issue and the real challenge and again I'm going to use Texas as an example, since it's my home state.

What we saw is after the legislature began to pass these bills, women told their stories about having to drive hundreds of miles um to get access to a clinic. And again, if you're working at um a Walmart, or you're working somewhere at minimum wage and you have to take several days off and then find a way to get to a big city, it's really prohibitive. Women started telling their stories about actually crossing the border into Mexico because to get an illegal abortion. Because what we do

know is that abortion existed before it was legal. It was simply unsafe, and young, healthy women died in emergency rooms all across America. So to me, the most important thing we can do is get everyone preventive services, get birth control available, you know, everywhere we can, and then make sure that women can get safe and legal abortion and get it early when it's frankly as safest for women, because let's face it, nothing is full proof, right right,

And can any of these laws be overturned. I mean now that there's obviously been a backlash against these laws, that it's it's hurting women, as you mentioned, with the least amount of access. So other than telling their stories, what can be done or changing the face of the legislature. Well, of course, I think that's most important now is if if women voted in bigger numbers, we would change the

direction political direction. And it's interesting since this administration has come in the consciousness of women and men in this country about the threat to reproductive rights and healthcare is very very high. This is going to be a highly motivating issue, I think this November, and I imagine in as well. The other thing, of course is litigating and

in fact Texas because people never gave up. And I tell this story in my book, is that even though the legislature passed these really very bad bills against women, eventually the Supreme Court, with three women on the court, which made all the difference, overturned the law. So I think that it's a it's something we have to continue to fight. But I do think it's important that women vote um and recognize that that their voices are going

to be incredibly important. So a couple of things. One, is it actually true that women are more pro choice than men? Because I've seen some survey research that indicates there's not a huge difference between the genders. It's um. I mean, it kind of depends on what you look at, but yes, men are equally supportive of abortion rights in some cases. It's funny though, at least in my experiences,

it tends to be an issue that women vote on more. Um. But yeah, I was actually just looking at the most recent polls that are coming out that not only support Plan parented, support funding for a Plan parented, they're also showing the strongest support for Roe versus Wade since it was decided. And actually we're at the lowest abortion rate ever, and I think the gender difference isn't as great as

you might imagine. Many men, you know, they understand the importance of not only access to safe and legal abortion, actually access to birth control to late term abortions have been such a contentious issue, and I think it's something that people feel uncomfortable discussing, really don't want to talk about,

and don't necessarily understand. And I think most most women, even those who are very pro choice and feel like women should have access to abortion, feel un comfortable with the notion of an abortion after a certain period of time. So can you help us understand that? Seceial and give us some some real world numbers and circumstances, because I think that's helpful for people to hear. Sure, and I think I want to have to go back and check and I think my numbers are right. But um, almost

every abortion it happens before twenty weeks. I mean I think it's like like up in the high ninety percent. Um. What I from talking to O. B. G. Y N S, who I really respect because they deal with some of the most difficult pregnancies For women who terminate after twenty weeks, it's usually from a medical complication, and these are often heartbreaking stories for families of very much wanted pregnancies that

went wrong. And so what I've really grown to appreciate and respect, certainly in my nine time at planned parenthood is really the difficult and heartbreaking decisions that that women often and their families have to make with their medical provider about those pregnancies. And you can you give us some some examples that I know, I just think it for people to really grasp this, they have to appreciate

sort of real world example. Well, I mean their stories. Uh. This is what's been amazing to me is to see families willing to go on television, uh and or go on and write their stories. These are stories that I think are so personal and so sad. They shouldn't have to share them with national television audiences, but they have been willing to because they feel it is so important. I was actually just with a couple and their child

of in albany or Um. They were speaking at a m with a lot of legislators about their own pregnancy that she had had a had terminated a late term. She was there with her husband and they told the story of that pregnancy where it was incompatible with life, it was not going to survive, and it was heartbreaking for them. They had one of this baby, and now part of being able to terminate that pregnancy meant she could have a healthy pregnancy later and it meant the

world to her. But those are the stories that families have had to tell and had to tell to folks in Congress. And again, I think it's just the danger of having politicians begin to play doctor um begin to make a decision a deeply personal decision for women and their families. Again, it's why I wish we could focus on We we could do so much more to make sure women never face an unintended pregnancy, or if they do that they can get the care they need early on.

And we're doing a terrible job. But I think the later term issue is really used to criticize planned parenthood. So I think the more that that can be explained and understood, the better I think. There's you know, I find increasingly I know about you, um, Katie, but I find increasingly very few people who haven't known somebody either in their own family, UM, or a colleague or friend who hasn't gone through a really difficult pregnancy. And I think we need to show more empathy and compassion um,

and not make this a political issue. Let's talk about politics writ large, Let's talk about the Trump administration. I know you've said this White House has been worse for women than any administration I've seen in my lifetime. Tell

us the factors that contributed to that statement. Yeah, well, I mean the first is, of course, his first day in office or first action, was to in state the most restrictive global gag rule ever, and that was really to prevent access to family planning services, all kinds of other preventive health care for women around the globe. And we are seeing you know, because we work with women in Africa and Latin America, explain what that gag rule did.

Just to remind our listeners, it basically would prevent anyone that either counsels women about their legal right to an abortion, some in some cases provides services, but even just the counseling, they would no longer be eligible to get federal funds to do not abortion services. No, no, as you said earlier, federal funds don't go for abortion services. But they couldn't even get money any anymore to do HIV prevention or maternal healthcare if they brought up the potent, if they

even told women their legal rights. I mean, that's how restrictive this is, and women are suffering. Then of course this administration, Paul Ryan said his first month on the job, you know, our number one priority is going to be to overturn Obamacare and defund Plan Parenthood. So just putting aside defunding Plan parent which would have impacted millions of women, is that meant millions of women in this country who have relied on the Affordable Care Act to get healthcare

would lose it. Women on Medicaid would lose their access to preventive care. There was even an effort in the White House they wanted to take away the obligation for women to be able to get maternity benefits. This is how far they have gone. It's not imp not only about birth control, we're even making it harder for women

to get maternity care in America. And then, of course we've now seen under his Health and Human Services, which is the agency that deals with health care, and effort to basically end sex education for young people in many cases, which is I think, as a mother of three children, is just incredible. Uh and has tried to make it more difficult in that. I'm sorry to interrupt a number of people I know say, well, you know, I want my kids just taught abstinence. I don't want them taught

about sex in school. That's my job as a parent. What's what's your response to that? Well, I mean, first, um, absolutely the best educators in America are parents. But also I think every parent, I'm really shocked you say that, because I've never heard a parents say that. Most parents say, well, please someone teach my young teach my kid about safe sex, including abstinence. I mean, every program plan parent runs has

abstinence as part of it. But I think most parents realize at some point their son or daughter will probably become sexually active, and the worst thing that could happen would be that they're unsafe. It's interesting all the medical research shows that young people who get sex education they delay becoming sexually active, and when they do, they're much more likely to use prevention. So I actually think that the problem is not teaching abstinence. It's teaching abstinence and

nothing else. And we know what happens when when you don't teach young people, as they get bad information or no information. I think teaching abstinence is insane. I think it should be part of the lexicon of sex. Yes, I mean yeah, I mean I just think it's completely unrealistic. I mean, remember when you were a teenage boy, Brian, oh, many many years ago. I personally I agree, I agree

with you. I literally was having dinner with a woman last week who said to me that, you know, she was a very devout Christian, that she didn't believe that, you know, teachers in public schools should be discussing sex with kids. That was her fervent belief. And there are a couple of other people I've talked to who have similar beliefs. Can they can? They absolutely? And all in schools, I mean every at least when my kids went all the way through public school, and there was always an

option to opt out. I think the problem is if you say, well that one person who doesn't want their child to have any sex education should then prevent every other child from having it. So and look, I mean when my kids went away to college, I was thank goodness they had had sex education in high school, because once you get to college, there's not a lot of other educational opportunities out there. So again, this is something that I find and we also had planned parented. We

do a lot of sex education. We always include, you know, everything, including abstinence as an option. But we think it's important that young people just have the information they need to stay healthy and safe. And were you optimistic when you have that meeting with Avanca early on in the Trump presidency that there might be a little room for advocating

for women. I was. I was skeptical, but I felt like if there was any opportunity to um really either educate her and Jared turned out came as well about what we do and how important we are at too many women in this country that I had to take that opportunity. What did you think of them? Uh? I mean I think they I think they were trying to figure out how to make a deal to make the

issue go away. And essentially, well, essentially what Jared said was we would just like a headline that reads planned parent to discontinues abortion services, and um, I just said, we're not going to do that, that this is important for women. It's you know, they rely on us and we're not going to trade away their rights. But that was essentially I think they were. That was my impression of him, Um, that he wanted to make a deal.

So what is the deal? So you guys put that headline out and and somehow there would be more funding for a planned parenthood. And again, being able to receive federal funding is incredibly important night and again I will talk to anyone any time about that and about the important care that it allows us to provide to women. But I wasn't going to trade away, um a right that women have and you know, in many states, we may be the only access to safe and legal abortion.

They that I was shocked. I was shocked, and again. I had heard the President on the campaign trail of say that he knew many women had gotten great care from Planned Parenthood and really relied on them, but that he also wanted to defund us. And so I knew, at least somewhere in the back of his mind he he knew about the important work that we do. So that made me a little more hopeful. But it didn't work out, and so then we had to basically organize

around the country to protect access to that care. Unfortunately we were able to what happened to President Trump in his supportive planned parenthood or is acknowledge that planned Parenthood provides critical services to women. I don't have the foggiest idea what's going on with President Trump. I don't know. Do you think Mike Pence has his ear on this issue? Mike Pence is opposed to reproductive healthcare for women, has been a staunch opponent not only of Planned Parenthood but

of women's reproductive healthcare. So whether it's that influence, I just can't I can't begin to guess what is in the President's head. And what do you make of Ivanka Trump's role is the supposed advocate for women inside the administration. Do you think she's been able to get anything positive accomplished. I mean, I haven't seen anything. I think it's and look,

I feel like she plays these two roles. One obviously is the President's daughter, and in that role she is, you know, should do whatever she feels like she needs to do. But she's now I think one of the highest ranking women in the White House, and I have been really disappointed, particularly in terms of women's access to healthcare. Um, how just how much they have tried to roll back

women's access to care. And when we talk about the National Family Planning Program, which is really at risk in this administration, it was signed into law by a Republican president. This has been a bipartisan effort to make sure women have access to affordable birth control. And so I would have I would have hoped at least some of those really basic basic health care issues would have been supported

by this White House, but they haven't. Let's talk about what's next for you, se Seal, because I know you're going to be working to help more women enter politics. Um, what will that look like? Well, I don't really know, Katie, And I'm kind of excited about just getting out there

and hearing from women in the countryside. I think there is again we are seeing just record engagement by women, not only as activists, as marchers, as going to town hall meetings, you know, calling Congress, but now of course as candidates. I think we have twice as many women running for Congress as we did two years ago in my home state of Texas, the first two Latinas that probably will come to risk this year. That's really exciting

to me. And I think there's just you know, doing all I can to both listen to what women care about and also making sure that they understand how important voting is to the issues that are important to them. Also giving them the confidence to take the plunge you talked about telling your mom, you know, are wondering if you were right for this job, you would never run anything. And I think so many women there's a real confidence gap.

Men I think are overconfident about their abilities. And it was interesting, I'm doing these hours for National Geographic on big social issues, and they say when a woman fails, she blames herself. When a man fails, he blames other people. And you know, I think there's just this inherent confidence gap that really has to be tackled to get more women out there. I agree, and I that's why it

is an exciting moment. I think the ground is shifting in the United States in terms of women doing things they never thought they could do before, whether it's run for office, organize in their community, stand up at a town hall meeting. I remember it was in Arizona, and I write about this in the book, seeing a sixteen year old stand up at a town hall meeting in front of hundreds of strangers and take on a United States Senator about her her need to access Plan parent

to finish high school. Those are the kinds of heroic stories that to me are um that say maybe women are ready to you know, as we say, now you know, start before you're ready. Just get going. And as Mom used to say, never turned down a new opportunity. And what's the worst thing that could happen? You know, if it doesn't work out, you'll go do something else. And I think that more and more women are seeing that it's really exciting. So this is an exciting time for you.

Are you going to miss being the head of Plan Parented, especially at a time when it's still under attack and in the cross hairs. Well, I mean I've done it for twelve years and it's been the I mean job of a lifetime for sure. But I think it's also important as a leader to step aside and make room for someone else. I think the organization is stronger now

than ever. I mean, we've just you know, polling shows that membership shows that we now have I think more almost twelve million supporters, which is twice the membership of the n r A for example. So if all of those folks actually speak up, speak out vote, we really

can change the direction of the country. You know, I think some people may listen to this podcast and the very rosy picture you've painted about you know, surveys around people being pro choice in the number of members and planned parenthood and other issues, and think themselves, well, yeah, but a couple of years ago we elected Donald Trump as president. We have unified Republican pro life, anti choice control of the Congress. Republicans are dominant politically across the country.

How do you explain that disconnect? Well, I don't mean to be painting a rosy picture. I think it's all up to what people do. And look, the Republicans maybe in charge of Congress, but their actions aren't necessarily supported by people in this country. And so I think that's actually what we are seeing here is a Congress that

is wildly out of step with where the American people are. UM. I mean, as we know, one of the reasons that planned parent it is still open all across the country was that we're Republican women stood up in the United

States Senate and prevented, um prevented that from happening. So I do think it's a mistake to assume just because they're in power, and just because Donald Trump is in power, that somehow people support his agenda, because it's in pretty abundant, that abundantly clear from all all the polls and everything we've seen that the American people, uh don't necessarily support Donald Trump. And by the way, he got three million

fewer votes than his opponent. And just to wrap things up, because we know you have to go secial, but looking ahead to two thousand eighteen, of course, they're prognostic eights all over the place of what do you think is going to happen in terms of the congressional the midterm elections and is there anybody you're looking at or hoping for in look, I think is just completely wide open, and it looks like everybody in the world is thinking

about running, and I think that's good. And not me, but a lot of people are talking about running, and I think that's really really exciting, including a lot of including a lot of women. I have no idea what's going to happen in ten but I do know from this and over this last fourteen months, we have seen um women and others absolutely beat all odds, you know,

And that's what happened. And just to bring it back to my experience with and Richards again, which I write in my book, no one ever thought she could win. We never had a single pole showing that she was going to win, including the day before the election. But she did win because there was a grassroots explosion of energy and Texas that that put her over the edge. And I hope that that's an inspiration for people to think that you never know what that one thing you

do that might make a difference. Uh so just get out here and do it well. Apathy is no longer an option. Is that really? That's right? I think that's right, and it to me, it's always been so madening to see the number of people who don't get out to vote.

It just makes me insane. It's heartbreaking, and I think one of the things I do hope to work on in the next few months is that many of the laws have been passed actually make it harder for people to vote, including women and working women, and so we have to do an extra special job to make sure they can get to vote before we wrap the seal. Your daughter worked for Hillary, she's now Kamala Harris's press secretary. How hard do you think it is in this country

to elect a woman as president? Because a number of senior women on Hillary's campaign, so that they really underestimated the sexism that they think really prevented Hillary from crossing the finish line. Yeah, um, so just once like correction, Lily is her communications director, Lily Adams my daughter, just you know from no uh And I mean it's a

real or real honor to work for Pamala. Look, I would say that our senator here is I think that the important thing about Hillary running um was that it's it was hard, It was a you know, there was a double standard there probably always will be. But it's going to be easier for the next woman who runs. So I absolutely think a woman is electable in this country. But it's gonna just keep trying and trying and trying.

As we always say his progressives, you lose, you lose, you lose, and then you win, and when you do it's huge. So it just means you have to keep trying. I was wondering if how much Clinton fatigue also fed into the thing with Hillary, you know, because sometimes I think, yes, very sexist gender hurt her in many ways. But I also feel like people I don't know if people were retired of the Clintons a little bit, weren't they. Well, I just think, look, there's always going to be a

reason why. You know, there's no no one's perfect, No one's a perfect candidate, and I've I have worked and tried to help elect many imperfect male candidates. So I think somehow we always think women have to there. I mean, this is what mother would say, you know, we're expected to be perfect in every single way. And uh so again, I think there are many women in the field now, women who are in office, women who are business leaders. I think there are a lot of women who would

make a great president. And I think a lot of women are looking around, looking at who's in office and saying I think I could do a better job than the guy who's in there. Cecile Richards. The name of the book is make Trouble, standing up, speaking out, and finding the courage to lead right on system. Thank you, Thanks, thank you as always to the Currect Podcast production squad

are pod Squad. That's johnnah Palmer our producer, Jared O'Connell, our audio engineer, Nor Richie, our assistant producer, and special thanks today to Julian Nicholson from the Invisible Studios, who is here in l A. Thanks to Alison Bresnik who keeps my social media buzzing, the wonderful Emily Bena over at Katie Currect Media, and it's always my assistant who is great, Beth the Mos. Katie and I are the

show's executive producers. Mark Phillips wrote our theme music and as I said during the break, we want to hear your thoughts on Confederate iconography. I just like to use the word iconography. I feel like it makes me sound so smart. Do you think Confederate statues in the South really they're also in other places across the country, by the way, not just the South should be removed? Why or why not? The number to call again is nine to nine, two to four, four six, three seven or

right in it comments at current podcast dot com. You can of course email us also with your guest ideas, questions and feedback to You can find me on Twitter at Goldsmith b. Katie of course is under Katie Kuric on just about every major social media platform. She's been insta storying up a story. Have been up a storm literally because it's it's snowing here today, so I have been insta storing up a storm. Anyway, that does it for us. As always, thank you all so much for listening.

We really would love to hear your feedback because we want this to be an interactive medium for all of us. So we'll talk to you next week and have a great day. Bye bye y