Busy Philipps Gets Personal

that addiction. That's right. In fact, The New York Or even called Busy the breakout star of Instagram Stories. Hey I thought that was me, but anyway, the magazine said, quote, she has transformed her daily life as a struggling actor and l a mother into an addictive sitcom imagine I love Lucy mixed with a modern lifestyle guru. Busy doesn't just share goofy off the Cuff store raise about her day to day life, from her workout classes to her

family vacations. She also regularly opens up about very personal and tough moments, the kind of warts and all stuff that celebrities don't usually divulge, stuff like her habit of picking her skin. I feel you're busy, or the time that TV pilot she started didn't get picked up. She's like your hilarious best friend, and she always, it seems,

keeps it very, very real. And Busy would be the first to admit that her success on Instagram She's got over a million followers and counting, has led directly to

some very exciting new opportunities. She's out this month with a memoir called This Will Only Hurt a Little, and her new late night talk show, Busy Tonight, will premiere October on E So we spoke with Busy about those new projects, the TV roles she's known for, and her two young daughters, and we also delved into some heavier topics, including sexual assault and how Busy helped her be a

good friend Michelle Williams deal with Heath Ledger's death. To start, though, we began on a much lighter note and I asked Busy why she loves Instagram so much. I've been an actor since I was nineteen, so pretty young, and you know, it was always really hard for me. There was such a disparity between the articles that were written about me and the interviews I would do and what I knew my sensibility and my sense of humor and the things

that were important to me. What those things were, you know, like those things didn't seem to ever be able to cut through the sort of traditional ways of celebrity journalism. And of course things have changed so much, but this is we're talking like late nineties, early two thousand's, and

I always felt like I was misrepresented. And when Twitter came along, I found it to be incredibly empowering because for the first time I was able to get across my own point of view dire actually were fans of me unfiltered, and it was something that I quite enjoy it. And then I remember Instagram starting in my friend who's actually an actress, Constant Zimmer. I love her. I love her too, I've known her forever. So Constance was saying, no,

Instagram is so much better. You gotta get on Instagram. And then I got. I got into it, and it was fine. But I think that thing started to happen where I felt the community build so I was able to present my life in as honest away as I could,

which is and I I love following you. And of course you have really embraced Instagram stories, which are those fifteen second video or photo things that you can get when you just press on your face on the Instagram page on my face guys and basically UM's it seems like it's been a incredibly liberating for you. Well, it was. And you know the other thing that happened is that it sort of happened at a time in my career where I was unsure of what I wanted to do

next and I wasn't really working. I had done the HBO show at Dannie McBride Vice Principles and that was coming out, but I was kind of in a holding pattern as an actor, and I was just living my life and being a mom. But one thing that I always have been is in just in life, is someone who loves to tell stories, you know. And I was kind of bored in my career. You know. I would put my daughters to bed at night and be a

little bit bored. And where was your husband busy? Well, you know, we were having a moment and so you didn't really want to hang with him. I mean we did, yeah, kind of a little bit. Like it was just I just turned outward for for a little bit, you know, And and the response was pretty and ridable. And then then it became like things that were happening in my life and being able to build Yeah, these little vignettes, like these little stories, and I really enjoyed figuring out

how to tell the best story. I was going to ask you about that, really, how do you yeah, how do you decide what you're instagramming? Because I know that you know, the trampoline based worker, Yeah happens, I mean, and then there's a lot of just there, Brian, You've been spending too much time on busy stories. Well, you know, I had to prep for this interviews. This was very hardcore work research. But you know there's some direct camera action.

You talk a lot about sort of some small things that are happening in your life, what should you wear, what's going on with your daughters, and then some very serious topics like you know, raising money for hurricane victims, or your own anxiety. I mean, is there anything off limits in your Instagram? Yeah? I mean a little bit like including my kids in my instagram felt in the beginning, especially like I was taking the power back from paparazzi.

Or I had a really horrible thing happened when Bernie was I think she was like three or four. Where is your daughter who's now ten? That's my daughter who's no. Ten. Where I just had one of those days with her where she or everything was wrong and she just threw this massive temper tantrum in public. And then I looked up and there was a guy with a camera and

he was just like shooting the whole thing. And yeah, and I and I just like I remember just like sobbing in the car and feeling so helpless, Like I don't want that out there for her. You know, I'm talking about it now on your podcast, but like, do you know what I mean? Like I, but you don't want the video of it. That's horrible, and like kids should be allowed to have those days when they have meltdowns and whatever. And so we made that My husband

and I have talked about it. We made the decision that it was okay for us to post photos of our kids. And I didn't. I thought of it as as being empowering to me. And then I know that there's a discussion of other people who feel like their kids didn't choose to be in the public eye and they should keep their privacy as much as possible, but to be honest, I go back and forth. I sometimes

struggle with it a little bit. Like we were eating dinner and we're waiting for our car at Valet and this woman was just like walking her dog on the street here in l A and my daughters, you know, we're five ft away from me playing. I heard the woman say, oh, hi, Bertie, Hi cricket, and then I looked up and I was like, oh, no, we don't

know this lady. And it occurred to me like I've done that to them, you know, And I get that night how to break down with Mark, and I was like, you know, it's so interesting because I've witnessed the culture change so dramatically, just you know, in the last ten years. And you know, when I was on the Today Show, I was very careful about talking about my kids or putting their picture out there, and I kind of took the lead from Jane Pauli, who just never did that

and felt like she had to protect their privacy. And things have changed so dramatically. Now I'm much more relaxed. I mean, they are older, but I feel that, you know, if you look at Eva Chen, who I interviewed for a series I recently did who's had a fashion partnership set at Instagram and other parents, Um, they are being much more open about their kids. And you know, I do have mixed feelings about it too busy. It's hard

for me. It's a struggle, and I a little bit I feel like it's a Pandora's box, like I already did it. I will say that Bertie's as she's gotten older. Sometimes last year someone commented, how come you only post photos of your younger daughter? And my response was, and this is true because Bertie has photo approval. We say do you want to be a part of this or do you you know, do you want this picture out there?

And if she says no, then I'm like, yeah, of course you don't have to have that picture out there. And this similarly with them paid ads, because I really have been able to supplement my income doing the paid

ads for Instagram. It occurred to me and when I use my kids, because a lot of brands obviously like that I'm a mom and like that I'm so open about parenting and all of that, that when I use my kids and ads, even though that money is going to their private school and our vacations and all that, I was saying, they are getting to their getting something from it. Um. But I but it occurred to me, Oh, I should pay them like I need to. So I need to put money a percentage of whatever it is

that I'm getting paid for that post. If they're in it, I need to put money aside into an account for them for when they are eighteen they can have it. Let me ask you one thing about what you just said about paid ads, because this really struck me in reading about you, that you used to have to take some jobs that were not actually that interesting to you just to pay the bill, and now you've been able

to make all this money doing ads Instagram. Let me just break it down for you as a person who's been a working actor for over twenty years, who's been on Freaks and Geeks, Dawson's Creek, I was on e Er for two years. I was on Cougar Town for

six years. And I think people in the world assume that when you're working an actor who maybe has had some fame or people know who you are, you're recognizable, that the money just never stops and that you just like are constantly getting these checks and making a ton of money. I mean, I was. I talked about it in the book. I was basically broke by age seven, Like I had like lost all my money because I made like a bad real estate investment and whatever, but

like I had no money. So um, yeah, you know, money especially like especially for artists, working actors, actors for higher it's always something that you're like, oh, God, what where's my next job? What how am I going to make money this year? Because you have all this instability and it's uncertainty. It's all uncertain and most actors, even the most famous actors that I've met and talked to, always have that feeling like this job might be my

last job. Previously in my life before the Instagram monetizing my Instagram and that happened. Yeah, if I was offered like a week guest star on some show that I didn't love, I would take it because that's like I know, that's like dollars or sometimes twenty grand or whatever. And working on a television show, even as a guest star, it takes a lot of time and its effort, and if it's a show you're not crazy about, it's a bummer.

Like you have to wake up at five in the morning, leave your maybe you don't see your kids for two days and whatever. So this is obviously you know, the financial security you've gotten. I know that in two thousand and sixteen you made more money from social media sponsorships than your acting roles, which is pretty amazing. So this gives you a lot more freedom to pick projects that are really important to you, not just to make ends meet. Yes,

that's exactly right. And also I have I'm always nervous about money, and so it relieved me of that you always wanted to have your own talk show. I don't know, I don't know if that's what we read. Is that not you read that? I thought I read in your book that you had these goals and that at every stage in your life you've been able to sort of achieve what you wanted. You wanted to get out of Arizona and you did that. Oh yeah, that's that's the last that's the end of my book. No, no, no,

The thing about the talk show is really interesting. So, um, many years ago, I guess I just have to say I was. I did a movie that Harvey Einstein was producing, and he was like, you should have your own talk show, and uh, I was like, now, that's not for me. I'm an actor. I love acting, it's not for me. So he was the first person that ever like said

that to me. It just was not something that I was ever interested in, and because I have always loved acting, but the business has changed so much, and you used to be that like if you did one thing, you did that thing, and that was the thing you did. And now everybody does everything, which is fun, I think,

but also can be overwhelming. Or when you think about sort of getting out there, putting yourself out on that kind of stage, it seems like the stakes are a little higher when it comes to a talk show in terms of everybody's a critic. How are you going to approach it? YadA, YadA, YadA, Who Katie, No no, no, no no no no, but no sorry, I don't mean to make it scary, but were you tymodacious at all about kind of you know, because it is sort of saying, hi,

everyone here, I am have at it. Yeah, And I am very sensitive and um and I take things very personally. I know that about myself and I try to work on that. I know you're not gonna not everyone's gonna like you or even be kind about not liking you, you know. But I do feel like with the book and the talk show that I have made a decision to expose myself in a way that I personally that

I've never done before. And even on Instagram, you're right, like you can You're allowed the jerks, you block the haters, Yeah, and you're able to sort of cocoon yourself and really nice feelings of people that want you to succeed and community. Katie, I think, as our audience probably knows, you did a talk show for two years, I did. If you were giving someone such as I don't know, Busy Um some advice about, you know, things I wish I had known

when I started my talk show, what would those things be? Well, I think, you know, I think my goal in doing the show that I did was, you know, I came from a journalist perspective. I really wanted to educate and illuminate and enlighten people. And I think at two o'clock or three o'clock in the afternoon, where whenever my show ran, maybe people weren't that interested in that. So I think Busy is probably playing to a different audience with different

expectations and desires. So I think that any advice I would give Busy is are things that she already knows, which of course is to be herself. To UM, connect with the audience is incredibly important. I think I minimize that because I was so interested in the guests and the conversations. But I think people just, you know, they in a way want company, They want you, They want to understand what makes you tick and how you feel about certain things. And as a journalist, by the way,

I wasn't comfortable, you know, giving my opinion. I don't think you have to worry about that busy at all, which is great. I mean, I think clearly in the current landscape, not many people are actually worried about that anymore. But UM, I think I think the most important thing in life and in talk shows is to to be genuinely curious about the world, about people, about things that are happening around you. And I just don't think you

can fake that. And um, I also think it's really important to be polite and to make the guests feel welcome, because I think the more relaxed a guest is, and the more interested you are in that person, the more they'll shine. So that's my advice. What do you think of that. I love it. You're gonna have no shortage of fun, interesting people to talk to, and I'm super excited for you. So how do you think about this show? Well, to be honest with you, you know, I've been a

sort of a crossroads in my career. And um, I did a pilot that Tina Fey produced for NBC called The Sacket Sisters. It was me and Casey Wilson and Bradley Whitford played our dad. And I was like, well, this is it. This is my show and it's going to be great and it's Tina fe And then NBC didn't pick it up. Why do you think? I don't know, Katie, I don't know who knows why anyone does anything in this industry. But like crushed me in a way that

I wasn't prepared for. And I had after twenty years of being an actor and all the rejection and all the like you know, like clawing my way to the middle. Um, I just had this epiphany where I was done. I just couldn't. I don't. My heart always breaks. I keep waiting for this industry to not break my heart and it just always does. And so then I was like well, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want

to put myself out there in that way. Now I'm getting money for Instagram, I don't have to do bad guest spots on TV shows. I don't like whatever. Let me just take a beat. And Tina Fey reached out and they said, we would love to develop something for you, and I said, you know, that offer is beyond flattering coming from someone who's truly my idol, Tina Um. But I don't know if I can do this anymore as an actor. It's just too much. I don't know what I want to do, but I don't know if I

want to do that. And Eric Gurian, who works with her is one of the producers in her company, said said to me, well, you should figure something out because you're giving away all those great content for free, and holy cow, he's right. I was like, holy cow, he's right. And then the New Yorker article came out. And then a few weeks later, I was in Palm Springs, UM for my manager's fifty birthday and her birthday party was at the MERV Griffin estate. Me too, I love MERV Griffin.

He's a little bit my patron saint right now, um, him and Joan rivers Um and I got a little high at this party and I which is legal now in California. So you really didn't do anything wrong? I know. Oh no, I'm like, no, it's it is, it's legal. I'm, by the way, a total rule follower, like I don't like to break rules. So yeah, only when it's legal. Um. And I turned to Mark and I said, oh, I know what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to be uh, a female voice in late night television. They've got all

the dudes doing it. I need to do an entertainment late night show for me like that I would watch like for us and Stone, just basically what you're telling kind of that this is what it should be, like, this is the natural progression and what I should be doing next. And Mark laughed and was like, well, look, if that's what you want to do, you can do that. I'm sure. And I called Eric and I said this is what I want to do, and he's like, well, we don't really do that. We've never done that, but

I mean, I'll see what they think about it. I was like sure. I went into I c M and met with all the agents there that handle um, this kind of thing, because it's a totally different I've never had an agent that does hosting or whatever. And they were very sort of optimistic. They were like, you've never done like I don't know if Yeah, well maybe we can partner you with a producer who has a lot of experience in this space, or we could do this, or try to set you up with some meetings with

some show runners. And I was like, no, guys, you're not listening to me. I'm getting a late night talk show. And they're like, okay, we'll work on some things. Literally two weeks later, my phone rang and eric Aarrean said, so, I feel like Tina maybe just sold your show on the phone to E. I was like what. Then very shortly after that we went in and sat down with them and they said, yes, that was less than a year ago. So are you gonna have guests? Are you gonna So it's a half hour, it's ten pm on

E four nights a week. It was really important to me to fight for a strip show, which is multiple days, so four or five nights or days a week. And I was so important because the guys get it and I just wanted what the men get, and I feel like a lot of times women are given one night a week as a consolation brides, and I want it. I wanted what they cat And I think it's important to re established. I mean, I think I love sam

By and I do her show. She's so smart. But I also think there's something to be said for establishing kind of a regular, daily or nightly relationship with viewers that you know, they feel even more connected when they can spend that amount of time with you on a

regular basis. Who would be your dream first guest? We're trying to figure out who our first guest is right now, and we I really wanted Julia Roberts to be our first guest, and our first show happens to be her birthday, so well, that's a good way for her to celebrate. I know that's what I said, but she I think she would rather be with her family. I don't know whoever. I think I would recommend having someone you feel really

comfortable with and uh, which maybe Michelle Williams. What about Michelle? It's her daughter's birthday, Damn, everyone's everybody tell me a little bit. I think it's so great that you and Michelle have been so oose I guess since Dawson's Creek and um, you know, on a serious note, busy, I imagine you've had to help Michelle deal with some very

difficult things. Specifically, obviously, I'm talking about the death of of Heath Ledger, and I'm just curious what you learned or what that experience was like for you as someone who is continues to be so close to Michelle. You know, it's interesting I write about this in the book Every person that I love the most, All of my best friends lost great loves when we were in our twenties. Everyone my best friend Emily b b first, her boyfriend

died really unexpectedly and it was really traumatic and upsetting. Um. And then my roommate from college, Diana, her her best friend from childhood, passed away really one actively a year later when we were twenty three, and then we lost Heath several years later. There's nothing like especially losing people young,

like there's just nothing that makes sense about it. And and as a friend, you know, being adjacent to the person who really is experiencing the loss, your job is to kind of, at least most moments, like put your own ship aside, and like be able to sit with them and get them cold wash cloths for their faces when they need it, and make everyone laugh when they need that, and like make the dinner reservation or write the email however you can support. That's what That's what

your job is like. Mr. Rogers says, look to the helpers, right, the helpers. Yeah, you just have to you become a helper. And you know, I'm super obviously so protective Michelle, because of the public fascination with um not it's not just hard. I mean obviously, it's with him and and people's feelings of ownership over his his legacy or his and his death, you know, and what it meant to other people. And and I try to be really respectful of that too,

because I understand it. I appreciate honestly how protective you are, even you know, years later, for for people's personal pain, because it's really not yours to necessarily discuss. So I have to say, it sounds like like you've been a very good friend in a lot of things, tough situations, and it it really matters. Just having lost my husband at an early age, I think about all the friends that helped me and you know, lately, I've been going

through letters that I requested. My girls were just six and two when my husband died, and I asked every one who knew Jay, whether it was from growing up in Manhasset too, going to college, or practicing law with him, if they would write my girls a letter about him and about why they liked him or loved him, or cared about him, or how he affected their lives. And I've been going through those letters recently because my girls

are all grown up now and they're so moving. Not only are they moving because they talk about Jay, but they're moving that people took the time. I mean, these are handwritten letters, you guys, that are in some cases ten pages long. Like the woman who said when Jay and I first went out, he went into her office and said, I just met the woman I'm going to marry. And you know, just even these little stories about him

are so um. First of all, they're moving. It makes me cry, but it's also such a special thing for my girls. Yeah. I actually did that. Right after he passed away. I wrote a few letters of like all the memories of like everything that I wanted her to know about her parents when they were together and UM, she's going to really she's going to really cherish that. And if there and if there are other people, you know, it's not too late. If you know, it's something that

will really help her. I think if she gets older and wants to know more about her father. Let's take a quick break and when we come back, we'll chat with Busy about her new book. That's right after this. And now back to our conversation with a very smart, very funny Busy Phillips. You talk a lot about very personal things in this book, Um, and I'm curious, particularly about a sexual assault that you experienced, and I'm curious

how you weighed discussing that. Yeah, um M, I I feel like an alternate title in my head of this book is you don't get all this without the trauma. And there's something that This has been a really interesting week too, like super triggering and really tough for me. Um, I'm gonna try not to cry. I'm gonna start crying. Um. We should note that we're recording this discussion about Brett Kavanaugh and what he did or didn't do as a

young man. Right, Well, I think that you know it's tricky, Um for me, I didn't think that the payoff of all the fun stuff means anything without the other stuff. For me, like the thing that consists dently has driven me has been these series of kind of like traumas in my early life and being sexually assaulted, having that power taken away from me at fourteen. The way that I dealt with it and the shame that I had, and the way I internalized it and made it make

sense to me, I don't think is unique. I think that we're seeing now, of course, the last year, that women have experienced these kinds of assaults for a really long time, and the conversation about what consent is. I mean, this was ninety I was in the mid nineties. I mean, think about the messages I was being sent from the president. I love the Clintons my life, but like that he you know, stuck a cigar and this girl's vagina, but she was the slut, like she was defamed and like,

you know, was breaking. What happened to Monica Lewinsky, Although I feel like she's come through this and and I really admire the work she does, but sorry to interrupt, no, but I mean it's the same thing that's happening right now. And why I just started crying because I think about the message that this pret Kavanaugh thing is sending girls still fucking thirty years ago he was a teenager. What

maybe he what he didn't wasn't even that bad. He didn't even rape for you know whatever people are saying. I mean the things that people said on my Instagram when I posted in support of um DR for Dr Ford, Yeah, thank you. There was this amazing CNN story, I don't know if you saw it, a focus group of some Republican and conservative women and one of them said, actually said on TV, what boy hasn't done this? And it triggered the whole movement on social media right of men

saying I didn't do this? And I feel like this is locker room talk all over there. They're trying to normalize it by saying everybody does it. Well, everybody doesn't do it, but it's a worthy conversation to have, Yes, what man hasn't done this? I know, like I was

even last week in the room. I mean, probably shouldn't even say this out loud us just like room stuff, but I was like, truly, at this point, when we introduce our guests, we can if it's a woman we can literally say has probably been a victim of sexual assault, please welcome out like it's fucking bonkers and it has

to stop. And I just, you know, my heart breaks because I have little girls, but my heart breaks for these boys that are being raised in thinking into thinking that this is okay, that this is Do you think that something can be done? Though, Busy? I mean, I think a lot about this about, you know, how we are culturally conditioning boys and girls, and how we can

do it differently. And I mean, I think this movement will really obviously have a massive impact on I hope, I hope I pray on how boys and girls and men and women relate to each other and the kind of behavior that they engage in. But you know, it feels like there has to be more than that. I mean, I think we need to help our boys become responsible and know, in no uncertain terms sort of the rules of behavior obviously taught primarily by parents, but also influenced

heavily by peers and girls. And I've noticed that my daughters have a very different attitude about this, of course than I did, or what I was kind of brought up to believe was just tolerated, right, and just kind of got an eye roll or oh god, that's gross. But yeah, of course, and you know they have a very different attitude. Of course I do as well now, but um, you know, you're kind of a product of

your environment and the culture that you exist in. Do you do you think this is a very long winded way of asking, do you think it is changing already and will change even more? I mean, that's my hope. Certainly. I also want my daughters to understand like sex as pleasure and not have the message that it's about servicing a man. I was thinking about how I never had growing up. I guess I just sex was very shameful

or like we didn't talk about it. And I guess I always just from media from movies and TV, just thought it was like about whatever the guy wanted and not and that the girl was just like you're just sort of there, You're just like the thing that it happens to. Well, maybe that's what happens when guys right the shows, Guys direct the shows, guys produced the show

and put them on the air. You know, I started writing in a book, oh a year and a half ago, and it was before the Harvey Weinstein allegations came to light, and then it all sort of felt like it's been you know, building and but to me, I felt like when Donald Trump became elected president, it was like already time to get rid of the shame of this thing and to like own it in a way my own personal thing. Let me ask you about that, because you

were in the Javit Center. I was in the Javits Center on election when the glass ceiling was supposed to break once and for all, and Hillary Clinton was supposed to be the first female president. And I think there are really two theories about the aftermath of that. One is, if Hillary hadn't lost the whole me two times up, women's rights movement wouldn't have come to the four and

overtaken the culture in the way that they have. Um maybe the other theory, the other theory, the more pessimistic theory, is, you know, Trump said about the worst stuff you could possibly say. He did a lot of terrible stuff to women, and he got away with it. And the fact that he's president sends a message to boys and girls that you can get away with it. How do you think

about that. I tend toward the ladder, and that was what was really hard for me to reconcile and why it was so heartbreaking for me, and why I wrote in the book when Mark, my husband said, he's not gonna be that bad, I mean, he's not gonna like They're not gonna like let him funk up the country busy, It'll be fine. The Republicans will let him suk up the country. By the way, Mark was wrong. But um, and I just looked at my husband for the first time.

My husband, who is a true ally, a feminist and uh, is a man who you know, can say with confidence, but I've never done that, you know, like we were just saying, Um, I looked at him for the first time and I was like, Oh, you really don't get it. The message that I've just been given is that the majority of the country doesn't fucking care about me. It doesn't care about my experience, and that you can get away with anything if you've got enough money and power

and you're white and your man. But do you think now that now people are I think people were not literally woke to any of that at the time of the election, and I feel like people are are being educated, enlightened and have galvanized and are seeing things in a in a very different way. I think that, you know what I would hope will happen too busy is just more conversations and less anger and more sort of I

believe me, I understand the anger. I'm not saying that, but a way that we can all sort of try to help people see things in a way that some

people aren't maliciously blind, They're just not evolved. Oh. Do you know what's interesting is that I just saw Deray McKesson speak the other night at a book party and he said something that really I mean, he said so many things that really resonate with me, but um, the thing that he said is, uh, you know a lot of times people are saying, oh, you're you're preaching to the choir, and his feeling about it is, you know,

have you ever been in a choir. It takes a lot of work and organization and everybody needs to and everyone needs to sing their own part and know how to do the harmony. So I'm happy to to preach to the choir because the choir needs work, Like this choir needs work, and we have enough people to make a really beautiful fucking song. But we're not singing the same melodies right now. People are off on their own harmonies, Like, we need to get the choir together. A lot of

people in the choir don't even vote. A lot of people in the choir, yeah, are like what where where? Where are we meeting? Like what what time is rehearsal? I was there at two? Like, you know, we need to get the choir together. I think that there are certain things that fundamentally I will never agree with, like people across the aisle on there are certain people. I look,

I've spent a lot of time in the South. I've done to TV shows there and I love it, and I have talked to people and become friends with people. Are like, oh, we really will never come to terms on this issue. Um, a woman's right to choose as one of them. You know, you fundamentally believe this thing. And I found and I'm not going to change that, like you're I'm not going to But this idea about preaching to acquire and and coming together to make the best version. I mean, and I think it is voting.

But I also think that what's happening now, like people aren't going to show up to vote because you're trying to make them feel bad about the fact that they're not voting. They're going to show up to vote when they feel compelled that they need to. They want to

be a part of change. I feel like people are apathetic, but I I do feel I feel very inspired and optimistic about this younger generation that I think really wants to take ownership of a lot of the problems that are facing this country and realize that they can't wait for their government to fix it, and they can't wait for companies necessarily to fix it or other institutions that

they have to be part of the solution. And I don't know, I feel that I hope that what I'm what I'm feeling will be borne out and participation not only in the mid terms but in the next election. But I do feel very I don't know, I'm very hopeful about the future. I'm hopeful too, and I think

that but even Katie I did this thing. My friend ed Drosi as the lead singer of an indie band called Grizzly Bear, and he was talking to a friend of his who's a school teacher, and he was the teacher was saying, oh, I spent seven hundred dollars this week on school supplies for my kids. And I haven't even gotten my paycheck yet, and I'm like, you know, in the red whatever. And so Ed has a following on Instagram, so he did this thing. He asked teachers who needed school supplies to d m him with an

Amazon wish list and a picture. And for ten days he did this ten featured teachers Amazon wish list, and he asked me if I would do it, and I was like, yeah, that seems like an interesting use of my Instagram and time. And I picked ten teachers posted their Amazon wish lists. They were like sold out so quickly. It's such an incredible, like grassroots way to help. I wanted to do that now too, but I was just like, it was so inspiring to me because I think that people.

I think people want to help. I think people want to do the right thing and they want to support, and sometimes they get overwhelmed. And especially WET I got a lot of art teachers because a lot of times teachers well those the programs are cut, their programs are cut so much um. But there was one art teacher who works three jobs and spends over four thousand dollars

of her own money every year. Scandal. I mean, it's nice when people can help out, but we should teachers are underpaid and under respect as a totally unbelievable that in this position unbelievable. It is appalling and but at the same time, until we can figure it out in sort of a bigger picture maybe like a grassroots way of supporting and helping, and it's the way to go. And also, you know, make sure that you think about

that when you vote. You know, these single issue voters, I don't think you should be a necessarily single issue, but you should say what matters to me and how are these candidates fulfilling you know, my goals to support certain causes, And I think education is often overlooked when it comes to, you know, making a decision at the poll. Anyway, we've taken way too much time. But busy, good luck with everything. It's been so fun talking to you. I wish you all the success in the world, you know,

and it's been so fun talking to you. It's been really great. Thank you so much for doing this has been so much fun. So folks, that's a wrap. A big thank you to our producer Emma Morgan Stern, our associate producer Nora Richie, and our audio engineer extraordinaire Jared O'Connell. Special thanks to the great Gianna Palmer for her help on this one, and thanks also to Julian Nicholson at Invisible Studios for engineering my side of the conversation from

l A today. Also a big shout out as always to my assistant Beth Dems and to Julia Lewis, who is my social media guru. Mark Phillips wrote our theme music. You can find Brian on Twitter he's at Goldsmith b and you can find me posting incessantly and hilariously. I might add on Instagrams to raise under what else? How original? Katie Correct. You don't want to miss those, and remember the lines are always open over at comments at correct

podcast dot com. We'd really love to hear your questions, feedback, guest ideas, and in particular this time, any thoughts or questions you have about the upcoming mid term elections. We're going to do an episode all about understanding the mid terms, or you can leave us a voicemail on those topics at nine to nine, two to four, four, six, three seven and we may very well. Play it on the show. Thanks as always for listening, and we'll talk to you next week. Bye.