Bonus: How does Andy Grammer stay so positive?

of pleasantry. She occup bored with the weather and what's in the news. Studies show the average person has about twelve thousand to sixty thousand thoughts per day, and that of those thoughts are negative and end of the thoughts are repetitive. That adds up to a lot of ruminating about a lot of bad stuff. So next question, how do you stay positive in today's world? In my opinion, the happy guy or the happy girl is like way more three dimensional than just like happy. Like it's a fight,

it's a war. There's a lot of things you can do to try and stay positive. You're about to meet a very happy guy with some uplifting and sightful advice, and you can even dance to it. Go al. Multi platinum pop singer and songwriter Andy Grammer's work reads like a playlist for positivity. His platinum singles include hits like keep your Head Up, which I love, thank You, Good to be Alive, and the ridiculously catchy song that became

an anthem for monogamy, Honey I'm Good. He's also got a popular positive podcast called The Good Parts, and he also has a new album out called Naive and So Andy. I'm so happy to see you because I could use a little positivity in my life. I love you, thank you so much for having me here, and your whole story is so interesting. But before we kind of dive into your life, you sometimes have to defend your positive attitude, don't you. I mean, you have to make sure people

understand that it's cool to be happy. I feel like I smile quite a bit and I have just in the world that kind of came in always like looking for the good. My late husband used to say, I was hardwired for happiness, and it sounds like you and I are the same. Right. Every once in a while, what you will get back from the world. If you are this type of person, is that you don't know what you're talking about, Like, can't you see how crappy the world is? Like why are you smiling so much?

You must not know. So you kind of get put off into this corner of like, oh, you're like cute, you know, you're so sweet and he comes by like smiles. If you're happy, you must be stupid. It must be stupid, yeah, because you don't know what's going on. And so what do you say to people who have that attitude? It's almost like a rebellious way of being like, call me

whatever you want. This is how I live, this is how I am, and I'm making it for people like me, And there's much more to me than a smile on my face. Because I guess a lot of people think you have to be dark and moody to be interesting. Totally, yes, and you want to prove otherwise. Yeah, hopefully there's there's people that can see that that's not always the case.

And everybody has all these sides to them, right, Like I have dark and moody in my life, but usually that dark and moody is trying to get me to somewhere that is worthwhile, where I can grow, where the world is worth it, where I want to show up and be a part of this thing. Rather than just be dismal about it. Let's talk about sort of how you came into the world with a smile on your face. Yeah, I was born in Los Angeles, and then my dad as a children singer, so I got some of my

good vibes from him and my mom. They both wrote these children's songs together, so they were following him around. So they moved to Nashville, and they moved to New York, and that's where I grew up. I grew up here in Upstate and state on an hour north of here, a place called Monroe Bary. And so you were surrounded by music all your life when you were a very little kid. And we have a clip of your dad's singing barnyard Boogie. He's a stinging and stinging and uster.

He loves to im provide. He's the kind of clock Curo was born to harm and I and every day. And then my dad was so where did he sing that? Was this just a children's record? Or was what I mean? He took it really seriously. He was incredible. He was my dad's Grammy nominated children singer, so this was like his job. You travel all around the country and around the world singing to kids, and your mom too was so this came to you naturally, kind of genetically predisposed

to be a great musician. The older than I get, the more I realized, how lucky if you want to be a songwriter, to grow up in a house with two songwriters writing songs all the time, it's pretty lucky, I bet. And you started writing songs yourself when you were fifteen years old. Yeah, I started just taking stabs at It was never really pushed on me. Do you

remember the first song you ever wrote. Yeah, I think it's something called like Doorstep to a Girl about like I like you, but I'm probably gonna come past the doorstep, but I'll hang outside and flirt with you a little bit. You were busting and I've never even heard of that term. I guess it's more of a what is that a West Coast term? I don't know. I didn't really heard

of it either. So you were a street performer in other words, so you were doing what a lot of people do here in Central Park or in the subway waiting area you were performing. So what kind of things were you doing and what did that experience teach you? A lot? I understand quite a bit because at it's very fundamental level, the idea of not waiting for anyone and just going and doing it is really important in any career, especially in arts. Do not wait for permission.

It's like free him of speech. You literally can't stop me. I'm allowed to just start doing what I do. So that was really important for me. So I did that for four years, and I'm starting to learn what it is that I had to offer and what was working in what was not working? See what kind of songs would you sing? I would sing covers, I would sing my own originals and no one would stop, and you'd be like, all right, well, I gotta write some more um And I would, you know, cover Room five and

I cover one Republic. And I try, like Michael Jackson and all these different things to see like what's working here, trying to find myself, find my sound. I imagine that you encountered all different kinds of people and a real slice of humanity. You really do, And what'school is kind of like being on tourist saying in one spot because Santa Monica's tons of tourists come from. I was gonna say, is that where you were Santa Monica? Where on Third

Street Promenade? And yeah, it was like this awesome wading into the water of what it means to be an artist and how honestly the whole ecosystem of what an artist is, which is you put yourself out there. Some people like it, most people don't. And if you can hang with longs of solitude waiting while everybody's just ignoring you, then there are these moments where something catches on and now there's three people, there's five people, now there's a

hundred people, and you are the man for about twenty minutes. Crazy, everybody wants your autograph on the street. Yeah, they will buy your CD. You sign this for me. Holy crap, this is awesome. And then they all leave and you're back to like, Okay, I gotta figure out how to build this back up again. I could not care le

us about today, job gossip, ordinary stress. So in the beginning, when you're bad and you play, you would be giving me attention, not me giving you a service, right like you're giving to me because I'm bad to actually make the switch to where like I'm doing something that is beautiful or touching your heart or making you think, or like actually giving to you. That actually switches it to where like I'm giving you the service. And I, for the first time with my music, started to do that

as a street performer. And actually those four years were where it started switch. So by the time I left the street, it was like cool a little bit figured out how to write a song that gives rather than just like asked for attention, show me women, give me. You wrote your first song really based on your experiences as a street performer, called Keep your Head Up, which is such a great, fun, upbeat, catchy song, but you

were feeling kind of rejected when you wrote it. It was a day of no one putting anything in my case, which is usually I get there early, set up and wait for spots. You're like there for like almost eight to ten hours, so a full day of the world being like no you sick or we're not interested, and no enough of you. Um, So I packed up all

my stuff and then I literally did this. I looked up at the sky and I said, I'm never leaving, So your move like I'll be back for the for the rest of ever, like until I go I'm here, I will be here and I'm not going to stop showing up, so you might as well just like make something happen for me. And then I went home and wrote a song. Up, keep your head up, your head up. You wrote a song, it became a huge hit. You put it out in the world. I mean, what was

that like? Here you were busting and suddenly you become this well known singer songwriter. So what was that like? Yeah, you hear on the radio, and then you're going around different parts of the country, in the world, and people start, you know, see things on YouTube, everybody covering it, and then you go to play a show and they're all

singing it. It was. It was pretty spectacular. Tell me the process for writing a song, because I've played the piano and I've always wanted to be a songwriter, you know, I just think it would be so fun, and I've tried a little bit. Of course we can make it. Tried to write a song called if I Only knew. My husband died of cancer, and I thought how different

people would act. I actually just went to a funeral this morning of a dear friend who was killed in car accident, And would you do anything differently if you only knew that your time was limited? Would you be more generous and loving and caring? And would you not waste a moment being mad at someone or getting in silly fights? And I just think the idea of really taking advantage of every minute to be happy and loving is so a wonderful thought. So if you want to

take that idea with it, you can. So this is what I say. What songwriting is to me at least is you have that thought, which is a great thought. And I also like, if I only knew as a lyric, yeah, it's like a great lyric. It's a great idea. And then for anyone who's listening with the songwriter, this is what's going to happen. You're going to write the song and it's going to be so sincere in you, it's

like a perfect, pure little thing. And then in the process of taking it out of you and actually putting it out into the world, you will realize that it fell apart and crumbled into like a terrible little thing. And he'd be like, crap, it was so good in me. I know it, I really like connecting to it. I was getting so encouraged and to the said that, and then as you take it out, it falls apart. So the only way you can actually do it is to

write it again. Then you write it again, and then you write it again, and then you write it again. And being a good songwriter is someone who gets better and better at the process of actually putting it into the world in the way that it actually feels inside you, because that is an unbelievable art. But I feel like I need someone to help me because maybe I'm just

a lyricist and not necessarily a songwriter. That's very possible either should be a duet, and I think we got it, Okay, all right, Well we'll talk about figure out podcast when we come back. We're going to talk about how to stay positive in this increasingly depressing world we're living in, because I think people are feeling anxious and unhappy and depressed. And we're going to get your prescription how to click that around fix everything. No problem, I got you when

we come back, and he fixes the world. Music can really change your mute so dramatically. I think that as a songwriter, you're just trying to find what's true about being here. For some reason, I don't know why, it's harder to make the happy side of things sound cool, but if you catch it, the world really needs it and we all freak out. I've been waiting on the sunset build on, Mama said, not kidding, Hi, Hi, having

my income, income's bread, Cromes, cobbin, trying to survive. We talked about being surrounded by music as a kid and by children's singers. Having parents who sing songs from the time you're hopping out of the womb must kind of make you a very happy person. But what else do you think shaped you and made you positive? Because I think we all have different thresholds of happiness and different

happiness levels. I think one of the quickest ways to become happy be the only fail safe that I know, is to be of service to other people stranger, which sounds weird and ridiculous. It's kind of like when you are laying on your couch and you're lethargic. What's the best thing to make you feel better is to like go for a run, and then you what do you know?

You feel better? So suddenly stranger in a world right now and where everybody's got their phone in front of their face and the cameras facing back at them all day long. We're like very self right now, and I think that makes you very unhappy. And the more that you can go outward and do something for other people, be of service to somebody else, figure out how what your daily life is is being of service, that will

undeniably make you happier every time. I agree with you because I was thinking about that as I was sitting in this funeral service this morning, and I you know, when you go to funerals, you hear such incredible things about people, and you wonder, gosh, why didn't I know this person better? Or how can I have what David Brooks calls eulogy values? How can I be the kind of person that people would say those things about, you know,

when they're no longer with us. And I started thinking about when you're external facing, instead of so focused on yourself and your own problems and your own complaints and you know, things that are usually exaggerated, and instead kind of look around and how can you help other people and make them feel better instead of being consumed by your own It is the quickest way to be happier now, let me ask you this. You were at a funeral.

So I have a podcast about what I think are the most interesting questions the good parts of our story. What do you think happens when we die? Is one of the things that I like to ask. I think nothing, nothing lights out, game over. Yeah. What I love about this question is there's no right answer, it's all. It's all really fun. I was raised to Presbyterian. My mom

was Jewish, but I do sort of. I think believe more in I agree more probably with the Jewish faith that your spirit lives on in the hearts and mind, that you you can shape other people who come after you by your presence in their lives. That's what I think. I wish I believed in heaven and you know that I was going to be on a cloud eating Philadelphia cream cheese. But I just don't think I do. How

about you? So I'm behind. One of the things that I got from the behind faith was there's these writings about how we believe that it's like the womb to this place is a good analogy. So when you're in the womb, you're growing arms and legs that you don't necessarily know why you need them. It's actually making you more uncomfortable in there. And then when it's time you move into this new place where you get to use these things that you were growing. Oh my god, this

is awesome. And it's a much vaster, crazier, cooler place than you could ever imagine, right, much bigger than So the idea is that this place here, living in life, in the world, you're supposed to grow spiritually, and then once you leave this place that then you use all that wherever you are next. So where is that where It's impossible to describe. I don't think that it's a cloud with cream cheese either. What do you think it is? Do you think it's sort of some kind of particles?

Think my brain literally is incapable of understanding it. But I do think that it is worth growing. It's like we're here to grow for that place. So then when you're talking about your friend's funeral, I am sad, but I am also I do think that this this guy

is in a really great place. You do, I really genuinely do, And I've had many wild experiences with my mom who's passed on that just like further that that's you can't prove that to anybody, but in my own personal beliefs, I think that he is in a wonderful place. Tell me about your mom. You mentioned her. She died a breast cancer when you were in your twenties, and I'm curious how that affected you and how you were

able to maintain this sort of upbeat, positive attitude. I have the song on my new album called Wish You Pain, which kind of makes sense with this, which is like, you only grow from things usually that are really, really difficult. And if I was going to be someone who runs around the world and sings songs that were trying to uplift people, that would be pretty obnoxious if I didn't understand pain. I hope your dads come like monsters and

terror raged dreams. I hope you feel the lonely hopelessness because no one else believes. I hope you question whether you ever really had a chance at all. Up until that point in my life, life was pretty easy for me. I like was good enough at sports. It was like homecoming king. It wasn't like trying. It was just like if I wasn't ever really happy, life is awesome. This is great. And then I lost my mom and my whole world got completely rocked, and I was for about

a year and a half. I went from being the super gregarious guy to just like at the dinner table or the friend table, just completely quiet, silent, taking in like, oh, this is what so many people are feeling when it comes to like sadness and pain and difficulty. I really needed that to not be annoying, uh and not understand I have any compassion towards how hard it can actually be. So losing her was like very grounding. And I think a song like keep your Head Up is saying be

happy amidst how difficult this is. Most happy songs are still grounded in pain. I know that it might sound strange, but whish you pain, whish you it was your mom sick for a long time. It happened really fast. They caught it late. She passed pretty soon after. We found out again, what's crazy is my relationship with death is different. She was behind too. I actually got to sit with her and we had a whole conversation about like it was almost like a train station for me where I

was like, oh my god, I'm so sad. I don't want to lose you, But are you a little excited about where you're going, and we had this awe, some super intense conversation that was like, man, maybe I don't know what is it? Who you know? So that is either to anyone loosen that's either like a ridiculous, silly conversation between two people that are trying to make themselves feel better totally fair possible, or a really really sweet, spiritual conversation between a mother and his son. I love

these conversations. These are my favorite. I hope it was the latter, honestly, despite the fact that I'm a Scotia cynical, but I know that you do something. You keep your mom's spirit alive with something called Cathy Graham's. That's what I did as a way to work through my grief.

I don't do it as much anymore, but right when she passed away, I would at any of my shows be like, if you're going through something, if you are having struggles or troubles, as a way to get through this, I will write you a Cathy Graham which is like a short teeny little song, and I'll send it over

YouTube to you. It was kind of wild because you know, you're just having a normal day and then you get this email that says, I'm going into back surgery for the fourth time and I'm really stressed out about I don't of any arms or legs and I'm going into back surgery. You said you'd write a song like oh my God, so that I like get out my guitar and like really fast, we got your back? Did you get your back back? Right? It's like, send it off. Any of those I probably did about ten or twenty

of them in that period of my life. You're really upset, But then by doing things for others, it is amazing how quickly that makes you feel different. You know. Then you're getting these incredible, beautiful emails back from the family of the girl saying like, oh my god, she's been playing this over and over and over before she goes into surgery. There's a random stranger that now like, I'm like kind of family with you know. My whole musical career is basically trying to do that as much as

I can on like a worldwide scale. Meanwhile, you went on Dancing with the Stars in honor of your mom. She loved to dance. Yeah she did. Oh my god. I watched that show sometimes and I think, would you do it? You know. They've asked me to do it a couple of times. First of all, I don't think I could because it's very physically tasted the hardest thing I've ever done right. And I also think I would forget everything because I would panic and I would draw a blank once it was my time to dance. I

would just be freaked out. I just don't think I could do it, but I admire people who do. Did you have fun doing it? Fun? Is trying? Not the word? Who is your partner? Well? Fun, it's definitely fun, But what you're talking about. Her name is Alison Hulker. She was awesome. It was the most stress that I think I've had in my whole career, Like, why would I

invite that into my life? I was doing it. They want They asked me to go sing the national anthem at the game one of the World Series, which is supposed to be a stressful thing, and I was like, fine, that's great, be out of here, help me stop doing the chat shot. I would love to go do that. But it was really really good, and it was really sweet to do it for her because she loved to watch dance. He was like a big fan of dance.

Don't get to every night, go just like get quiet before I went out and did something ridiculous like dance for her. And did you get very far in the process. Yeah, I made eight shows. That's good. But no mirrorball for you. No mirrorball. I did not deserve the mirror ball. It's okay. Justice was served. Next, we're going to talk to Andy and hear an incredible story about how he keeps his mom's memory alive for his little girl. That's what she said.

So you have a little girl named Louisiana who you called lou Yeah, Louie, Louis Louie. How old is she? And I know that you actually try to keep your mom and your little girl connected as well. Yeah. So, um, she is going to be to this weekend. So as soon as I'm done with this big record, lease, I'm gonna fly home and we've booked a bubble guy for her second birthday party. It's gonna be freaking awesome. And

uh yeah, she's she's my favorite. You know. One of the songs on this this new record, it comes with a pretty wacky story. So I'm just gonna share it, share it. So I get this call my wife goes, um, I got I got your phone call with this guy, m Danion Brinkley. I don't know if you've heard him struck by lightning, was dead for twenty eight minutes, and

then wrote a book about his near death experience. So like what he said happened when he passed away, Okay, I don't know exactly what to do that information, but sure, my wife gets me a phone call and she says, like, you should call him, Like, all right, I'll call him. I'm like, fift that's ridiculous percent, like I lost my mom. If he says you can talk to people like maybe whatever. So I called the guy and I'm like kind of skeptically on the phone, and he goes like, all right,

your mom's here. Her name is Kathy, right. I'm like yeah, still kind of like whatever, what are we doing here? What are we doing? Yeah? And he goes she she's saying very specifically that she wants you to write a song to your daughter about everything that she would say to your daughter because she can't be there to say it. And I was like, honestly, man, that's just a great idea. I don't even know. I don't know what's going on here, but I've written like way worse songs on way less

good ideas, so I will definitely do that. So I write the song and it's called She'd Say. And my mom is a huge Paul Simon fan. She loved the Graceland record where um he went to South Africa and he's Ladysmith Black Mambazo and it's like dimes on the soles of her shoes. You can call me al. These are all like amazing songs, and this is one of her favorite albums. So I write the song. I get

in the car. The next day after I've written the song, on the radio, it says Ladysmith Black Mambazo is gonna be in Los Angeles, And at that point, now I'm like, this is so weird. Now, I'm like, mentally internally just weirded out by this phone call, the fact that one of my mom's favorite groups is gonna be here. And so I chase him down and I'm like, I think I just gotta follow this all the way to the weird end that it is. And they agreed, and we

have this insane song called Yeah. So it's this wild song called She'd Say, Uh, featuring Ladysmith black mambazo, and when you hear like the African singers, it gets so insane. And then it's me singing to my daughter all of the principles and truths that my mom would have sang to her. You never got to meet your grandma, did you? I mean, I I got to kissing an o pick because me up to two will never listen to sweet,

sweet sound of a boy. I've had so many weird experiences like that that I just live in like a weird magical lane. And I don't know what to do about it. I don't necessarily it's like I don't say it's true or not true. I just like, this is

my life. Did you tell the singers the group that you had had this a little a huge photo of my mother and we put it in the studio and they came in and I told them all this insane story, and they quickly started writing in Zulu the words what she'd say, and I love my mother and I missed my mother. So it's like they're singing, duh, It's like wild, It's one of the most incredible experiences. So my daughter is going to have this song that whatever maybe my

mom wanted her to hear, which is really sweet. She beautiful. But don't you don't know what other weird experiences have you had if you just had to name one more, because I'm fascinated by this. I had this experience you got picked up on the news up in Boston where I'm playing a show in Boston and I'm sitting at early brunch by myself before you go play the show, and these six like elderly ladies come in and sit down in the corner and they were making me think

of my mom. And I'm like, oh, man, I should pick up their lunch. But then sometimes you have to worry about doing that because then you look like you're trying to be a big shot or whatever. And I'm like, never mind, I just keep keep like eating my breakfast. And then I have this thing inside it's like you should probably go pick up their lunch, and I was like, no, I'm having this internal conversation with myself now, like now I'm feeling crazy because it's like so intensely saying like

go pay for their lunch, like wom fine. So I get up, I go over to them and I go, hello, ladies, you all seem very very sweet. I don't want to be weird at all. I just like, I lost my mom. You're making me think of you all, and it would mean the world to me if I could just pick up your lunch. This lady starts crying and she stands up and she goes, I just lost my son. Who's your age? And like I'm like, now I'm hugging this lady. So stuff like this happens to me and I don't

know what to do with it. And we took this photo and I wrote it out and it became like a viral thing up in Boston, and then the news came and like took photos of us together like this sweet little moment that occurred. I just think there's like way more going on here than we all think there is. I don't try to say I know what it is, but there is like a sweet interplay of stuff occurring that I'm not necessarily scared of. But it's like it's insane.

Do you think you're operating on a different spiritual register because of your faith and because of Behi? And what is Behigh? Exactly? So? The Behigh faith is a world religion very simply based on the unity of religions. The idea is that there's just one God and that God has come down in succession throughout all of time. So Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, all these are like different accents of God. And so that's great because there's so much strife and conflict that

comes from religion. It was a wonderful way to grow up because everywhere that you'd meet someone new, you'd be like same team. Right, But it's obviously been very important to you into your life. Yeah. I mean, so there's like a lot of principles that if you're raised this way, can't help but affect how you see the world. So this idea that pain or struggle is something that is for you to grow from that is a huge deal because when bad things happened to you, it's not just

like oh me again, life sucks. It's like, oh, what am I supposed to be like learning from this? How am I going to grow from this? What am I gonna take from this experience? You did an incredible video about a woman who was dying a breast cancer with her little boy. That was with Justin Beldoni's show, Right, Yeah, he has this show called My Last Days. Justin Beldoni. He's on Jane the Virgin. He's Raphael from Jane the Virgin. He's also maybe one of my best friends in the world.

So he started doing this show called My Last Days, where when someone's terminally ill, a friend of theirs will nominate them to be on the show and Justin's crew goes in and then they interviewed them about what's important to them? What are you thinking before this thing happens? It's really powerful. I'm sure it's incredibly powerful. Is it sad? Is that uplifting? And you've probably watched a lot of these Is there a common theme that people talk about,

or feel or regret in their last days? Yeah? I think that it just like really centers what's important while you're here? What are we doing here? These are my favorite questions to ask. And the show gets into way more about how you treat people, loved ones, being around your family again back to being of service. How are

you actually being of service to other people? And so this show, it was a lady named Ellie who was passing away and her son was a big fan of mine, so I wrote him a song to sing to her when he missed her. When she Yeah, which is brutal talking.

And Ellie passed away and then she passed away, but again all context of how you feel about that, right, So if you believe that they are going somewhere else and that one of the ways you can keep in touch with them is to do good deeds in their name, there can be a sweetness around it that I really I think there is. I know that you're a really good beat boxer. I mean in the land of beat boxers,

I am not, but I know how to beatbox. You don you want to be all right, go ahead, you basically just man m ginty drum set, So give me the kick is going to be like a pff like sure, then uh high, that was no, I wanted to do that again. Do it again? What like give me a little more bottom like p f f f that's good, that's fine. Then the high hats like a T, I s like yep, and then like like a K A I'm doing great, Then like a K for this there, like yeah, give me like a you're a full on

beat box right now, yeah, sounding absolutely fantastic. Yes, now you're off on running. Do it for me, do it fast? So I'm really here, I'm sitting you with Katie. We're having a good old time singing about positivity and I don't know how to I mean, I can't death and death stick around. I promise it's not as depressing as it sounds yet. All right, fantastic talented, all right? I

love that. Do you ever feel like you just want to turn your whole image on its head and be like a jerk and dark and moody and like steal a kid's ice cream cone? Like everybody has evil thoughts, but not in general. I'm down to like let kids keep their ice cream cones coming. This conception about me is that like I'm like happy, and I'm like no, no, I love to go deep. This is my favorite. That someone passed away and I was like, oh man, I actually have a overly like I love to talk about death,

partly because my mom passed away. It's so fascinating to me. And then I spent a lot of time thinking about so it was wonderful. It was really nice to a meet you and be talked to you past. Yes, and we're going to write the song. If I only knew, If I only knew, that's good. That's what you come out of this before we go, you want to give me a beatbox bed. Thanks for joining us. I'm Katie Curik and I'm looking forward to tackling your next question.

And if you haven't already, subscribe on Apple Podcast, the I Heart app or wherever you listen. And by the way, if you're overwhelmed by the tsunami of information coming at you from your phone every single day, check out my morning newsletter wake Up Call. Go to Katie Kurk dot com to subscribe, and of course follow me on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and YouTube. Next Question with Katie Curic is a

production of I Heart Radio and Katie Curic Media. The executive producers are Katie Kuric, Lauren Bright Pacheco, Julie Douglas, and Tyler Klang. Our show producers are Bethan Macaluso and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Dylan Fagin. Associate producers are Emily Pinto and Derek Clemens. Editing is by Dylan Fag and Derrek Clements and Lowell Brillante. Our researcher is Barbara Keene. For more information on today's episode, go to Katie currect dot com and follow us on Twitter and

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