Bonus episode! A preview of ‘House Calls with Dr. Vivek Murthy’

Who knew it would resonate so much as the world locked down and social distancing measures were implemented. I talked with him about loneliness as a public health issue, including his own story about the mental and emotional impact isolation can have. Today, Dr Murphy is giving our Next Question listeners a preview of his new podcast called House Calls with Dr of Ache Murphy. So enjoy. Thank you so much, Katie. I'm so excited to be here with all of you

taking over Next Question. My name is Vivek Morty. I'm a doctor and serve as a current Surgeon General of the United States. Katie and her team have been kind enough to allow me to share the conversation I had with Padma Lakshmi on how we are looking at building more connection in two Padma and I met in two thousand seventeen when I first served as US Surgeon General during the Obama administration, I had the privilege of accompanying her to film an episode of her hit Bravo cooking

show Top Chef. She since added producer and host of Taste the Nation to her resume, and she has authored multiple cookbooks, a memoir, and a children's book, which is, by the way, something I dream of doing myself. Padma, I'll trying to get my wife on board with the idea of co authoring a children's books, so we'll see. So I'm so glad Padma, that we're having this conversation today. Thank you for joining me, Thank you for having me. I'm so glad you are our surgeon general again. Well,

that's very kind of you. I certainly feel honored to serve at a time like this, especially with the pandemic that we're going through. And speaking of the pandemic, I just wanted to ask you how you were doing. It's been almost two years that we have been in this pandemic. How have you been throughout this last almost twenty four months. Well, the headline, the biggest headline, is that I'm very grateful.

You know, I did have a couple of distant aunts who got ill and passed away, who weren't old enough in my opinion, to pass away. But for the most part, other than that, most of the people around me were healthy. I made healthy my own immediate family. We are all good. Nobody got sick, we were vaccinated in a timely fashion. I was just boostered a few weeks ago. UM. My daughter is now of age and she's also been double backs. So in large strokes, no complaints, just a lot of gratitude.

But even if you didn't suffer job loss or the loss of the loved one, I think we've all gone through something quite profound UM, something together with the rest of the planet and specifically of course our country UM that has manifested in different ways for different people, and for me, I think it's UM. I caused just a lot of emotional fatigue and mental fatigue. I think I'm

doing better now than I was a year ago. But I do think that I don't have the stamina or patients, the mental stamina or patients to deal with all of the extracurricular activities that I'm blessed enough to be invited to or asked to participate in by virtue of uh, just my work or you know, being in the public guy for so long. And I don't mind that, actually, but I do think that, you know, while a lot of us were still UM in a sort of stasis for lack of a better word, for many many months,

it was certainly not RESTful. It was filled with anxiety. And I think collectively we still have to deal with that mental duress and that anxiety and all of the attendant and additional things that many of us have faced, like you know, a career change, office at home, loss of a loved one, homeschooling. How do we get our kids back on track? Um, you know, it's been two years and so that is a very long time in

the development of a child. And so not only how do we get them back to their quote uncort normal cells, but how do we make up for lost time or how do we address some of the issues that have come up because of COVID for them? Because I do think um our children have suffered in a way that is very different from from us, you know, as adults you can sort of parse out. Okay, this is one

year of my life, two years of my life. But when you're nine or ten years old, my daughter is almost twelve, you know, eighteen months is a heck of a long time in the first fife and and and it becomes hard to put it in perspective. It's made me in tall and COVID has made me intolerant of a lot of things, like I don't hit chat, a cocktail partist, not good at those that you are, Um, just getting dressed up and and and being more social. I mean, I I do consider myself a very social person,

but my circle has gotten smaller. Um the you know, all of those, all of the things that I do have gotten very focused. I think that's good. I think there's some good that can come of that. Okay, that's such an interesting point you mentioned. But about I mean, it's ways. It sounds like you're talking about a reevaluation of your social life and your social engagement that's taken place, some of it perhaps unconscious, some of it intentional, but

all precipitated in a sense by this pandemic. A number of people, either consciously or even just you know, unintentionally are finding themselves going through a reckoning with their relationships, with their connection with one another, whether it's with family

or with friends. And it's a really interesting time, you know, I'm I'm thinking about the book Tomatoes for Nila, that you wrote, children's book about connecting with family through food and cooking, and so much of your work, whether it's the book or whether it's you know, Taste the Nation, have been about finding ways for people to connect through food.

And I'm curious as you reflect on those experiences, particularly Taste the Nation and just the beautiful stories that you've been weaving together of different food traditions and how they bring us together. What have you learned about how we connect and if we want to rebuild connection sort of in our life going forward. Connections are truly matter, high quality connections in our life. Like what lessons do you think COVID has to teach us? It's interesting, you know,

You're right. I just got through saying that I have whittled down my relationships and and you know, focused on the ones that really matter. And you know, I am very lucky and that the first season of Tasting Nation was very well received both by critics and just by the TV viewing public, and because the show really relies on intimacy and connection. That's the basis. You know, there's no vals and whistles to it. They're not you know, sweeping cinematic shots. We don't, you know, it's it's really

relies on that. You know. We couldn't film season two as soon as I'd like it, to know, as soon as I'd like it to have done it. And but I was anxious to get back to work because I didn't want the trail to go cold, and so we're only able to do four episode safely due to COVID and I as much as I was reluctant to rekindle relationships that I didn't think we're essential, I was so intent on getting back to work. Um. So I think that we do want connections, we just want meaningful connections.

I think that is the difference. I think we're realizing that our time, our tension, our efforts are very precious, right, That's what we've all learned, and so we want to spend them wisely on things and people who really matter to us. And you know, other than my child, there's nothing that matters to me more than Taste the Nation. It took me a long time to get it off

the ground. And I will tell you the reason I think that Taste the Nation has resonated not only with our viewers but with me so personally, is because I have been able through that show to make really deep connections. I stay in touch with most of the participants of our show. I check in with them just to see

how they are doing. I usually go and in bed myself in a community for about a week, um, and you know, meet different people from that community, and I will say that I think we're longing to understand each other better and to really have deeper, meaningful connections. And I do think that our country in the last five years has become so outrageously polarized in a way and that none of us thought possible in such a short

span of time. And so I think, for for me, it's important to understand your fellow American or your fellow human being, even internationally. And it's important too to make sure that when you when you are making these connections, that you're really being affected by that person, that you're being changed in some way. UM. And I think people want that, you know. I think that's why the show

had residents with viewers. But I also think, if we're going to go out into the big world and you know, leave our kids at home with a babysitter, or you know, make an effort and take a risk, you know, by getting on a subway or even going to a gathering, we wanted to be a substantive conversation. We wanted to be something that is just deeper than getting together and

making that small talk. Gosh, there's so much you said there which was very powerful that I'm particularly picking up on this threat around polarization that you mentioned, Padma, and I think that you're not alone in feeling the weight

of that polarization right now. I've had so many conversations with people across the country in the last not just in the last year, but even when I was search in general during the Obama administration, where people felt that there was just so much polarization in our country, and and that makes everything difficult, right, It makes it hard for us to come together and take on big challenges, whether that's climate change, whether it's racial inequality, whether it's

something like a pandemic um But the question is, how how do we build those bonds of connection, and it's it strikes me either a word do you use or a phrase which is knowing each other? Right to connect with one another? We need to come to know each other and how do we create those experiences? Because I think that would make it far less polarized the environment that we're living in and give us the kind of unity that we need to take on big challenges and

to add joy to our day to day life. What I think would be great is for every citizen to be required to do a month or six months work um stint in community service. I really think that, Like you know, a lot of countries have mandatory military service,

um I think we should do that. I think everybody, regardless of whether you are you know, somebody at the top of our economic echelonce or somebody who's just at the bottom or starting out or in between, should have to do some kind of municipal volunteer work for a period of time. I think that it gives you, um more of an understanding of what it's like. You know, I have a lot of my friends who are obviously chefs.

They they say everybody should work in the restaurant, in business. Everybody, you know, Danny Meyer says, I think everybody should be uh, you know, have a job as a waite staff member for just because it does teach you humility, and um, I think humility is really important. I think, you know, anybody who's interesting in going to med school should have to volunteer in your office for X amount of time just to shadow people that are working in your department

to learn what that means, you know. I think even if you want to be an actor, I think you should have to sweep the stage floor for a month and see what that feels like, so that you know, if you do get the privilege of being an actor on a stage or in a movie, that you have respect for your crew members who are cleaning up after you. Um. I think part of that also is because in America

we are such a me focused culture. You know, the individual rights of a person who are very much respected, etcetera, etcetera. So that has worked for us for a long time in a capitalistic society, but we've often lost sight of the we of it all in our society. And what we've seen with COVID is that regardless of how much

you want to insulate yourself, we are still connected. Is that enough that my child is vaccinated, all of her classmates need to be vaccinated, and all of her peers um in Brazil or China or you know, Sub Saharan Africa and need to also be vaccinated because she's sharing the world with that, and so we you know, that's one thing COVID has taught us is that everybody needs

to be vaccinated. Everybody needs an equal opportunity to have a health filled life and access to medicine and nutrition and and um, all of these things and and and you know, we cannot live in silos. And I think doing that kind of thing, having to be in service and having to experience feeling no better or no worse than anybody else. You know, we all had to we all had to stand in line at the d m V, right,

we all had to go through. Drivers said, I think there's there's something too we all have to just like we all eventually have to go to jury duty. I think we should all have to do some kind of community service. It can be you know, even cleaning up the park, it can be whatever. I think that would bring us closer to our connected us in some way. You're listening to next question with Katie Couric and we're sharing a preview episode of House Calls with Dr Murphy.

We'll be back right after this. Welcome back once again. Here's Surgeon General Dr Vivek Murphy speaking with food writer, producer and activists Padma lash Me. I was wondering, given all of your experience in the food industry, can you tell us a little bit of just about what you're seeing in restaurants, Like what are you seeing on the front lines in terms of the mental health and the

well economic well being of workers. We're going through a revolutionary change, not only in our economic system and society, but specifically in the restaurant business. Labor is very hard to find, and I understand, you know, you get treated

so badly as a waiter or waitress. It's it's really crazy how demanding people are and how they just somehow, very mild mannered, nice people somehow just lose their humanity when their steak isn't done exactly right, or you know, they're they're waiting a little too long for their next drink. And what's happening is that a lot of weight staff don't want to come back to work, and so there are many establishments that are short on help, and I

know that. Um, you know, I have a friend of mine who owns a little bit of restaurant here in the East Village and just heard her husband who run it with you know, a few members of their staff, and you know, she sent out a message on her Instagram account saying, Hi, we're gonna be closed tomorrow, and there's I wish I could tell you we're having a special event. We just all need some rest, so we're gonna say day off. I need to have my staff rest.

They deserve it. So please don't come tomorrow, but please do remember us the day after and the day after that and so forth. It's really hard to find help. By the way, I've never had a restaurant, so I'm giving you all the information that was given to meet

by others. Just want to say that on the record, But people just don't understand how low the margins are in the restaurant business, and also because of pandemic all in the perishable foods that you buy in preparation to be ready to make any of the items on the menu that you see go back. You know, it's not like there's there, you know, if it's a good restaurant.

It's not like it's canned. You know, you can preaze meet but some of it and then you have labor costs, right, you have fixed costs, and then um, the margins are really really low and the rents are really really hot. So um, you know, I know that in the last twenty years, chefs themselves have become you know, celebrities or know, it's kind of rock star mythology. But the truth is that, you know, it's very few restaurants that actually do well

and and make their chefs rich. You know, if they're if they're doing well, it's because they've got you know, a lot of private events that they're doing, or they're writing books, or they're appearing on shows like mine and things like that. It's not glamorous, you know, it's it's really hard work. And let's face it, working in the

restaurant business is manual labor. Now, it's very creative, it has to do with science and business and all this stuff, but at the end of the day, you're on your feet for eighteen hours a day and your hours are terrible there where everyone else is congregating during lunch and dinner. So it's it becomes really hard to have a personal life. It becomes difficult to have a family, especially if you if you're the one carrying the baby, which is why

it's such a male dominated industry. It's probably you know, second only to the military, Harry in that aspect in

our culture. Um, it's it's really hard. I think also Americans, just like they expect, you know, to have all the freedoms they want and think about me, me, me, not us, they also expect really large portions for really low prices, and we are not paying what we should be for milk and cheese because or vegetables because somebody had to go out at four dollars an hour and without health insurance and pick that fruit and box it up and harry that heavy fruit crate on their shoulders, you know,

with a band. I mean the stuff weighs like fifty pounds, and you know, it was very, very hard. I think the separation between owners and laborers has just gotten too great, and I think something's got to give, and that's what's happening now because it just becomes not worth working. Gosh,

mean those are that's heartbreaking to hear. And I think you're you're right, there's an economic cost, there's a human cost, and and it's I think it's very clear that for frontline workers in particular, that the toll of this pandemic on their mental health has been really quite striking. I know you've spoken about mental health before at the beginning of this year, about some of your own challenges. I've

certainly done that as well. Um, But I think we're both keenly aware of the fact that in our country and cultures around the world, there's so tremendous amount of stigma around mental health, and it's not easy for people to speak up to ask for help without feeling like somehow they're broken or they're at fault. I'm curious about how you see this changing this stigma around mental health. Like I think we both want a world in which our kids can talk about these issues more freely, where

they can get help if they need it. Um, But I'm curious what you think will help change that stigma. I think that the pandemic has brought a lot of issues to the for that we're always there regarding mental health, that it's just intensified and brought it up to the service in such an acute way. And and that's because we've been again under such to rest. But that's you know, everything has a benefit if you look at it the

right way. Somebody, once very smart said that to me, and I've never forgotten it, especially at times when I've been deeply challenged. And I was very challenged last year. I just felt really spent, and I talked about it. I felt I felt badly for my own issues, but I felt even worse that my daughter went through a lot because she's an only child, and you know, like millions of children across this country, she felt isolated from

her peers. You know, she didn't have siblings, and we really sheltered in place, uh, in a very remote area, you know, out in Long Island, and that was very hard for her. And so I think just talking about it and making it okay and um not seeing it as a sign of weakness, you know. I think that's

the thing. If you admit to having mental health issues, you're afraid that you're going to get some help penalized for it, either by your peers or by your colleagues, your family, or your you know, especially by your employer. We have to talk about it with children, you know. I think we have to talk about it in health class. I think that's when you talk about it. You start young and you just stigmatize it and you say it's

okay to ask for help. Asking for help is actually um and a strong action, you know, it's a sign of strength. I think it requires just shift in focus and how we look at it, and also in supporting each other. Um. I think that we need to at a very microlocal level reach out to our our circles. Are friends, are neighbor is, having those open channels. I mean when I heard somebody tell me that they started

every meeting and it was a corporation. It was not you know, it wasn't a friend circle or anything where they said how are you feeling? You know, and and these were like, uh, you know, all hands meetings, like you know, every Friday or every Monday, and that they always started I'm feeling like this, how are you feeling? And it was just an open forum for about the first fifteen twenty minutes for everybody to talk about just

how they were feeling. I'm feeling pressured because my daughter is getting married and I don't know how I'm going to do all this. I'm feeling pressured because my son is going to college, and I really want him to get into a good college, but I also want him

to be in a college where he's happy. You know, studies have shown that the more vulnerable you are, UM, the more empathy that you elicit in others, and hopefully, by eliciting empathy in others, UM, they all be not only empathic, but be encouraged to talk about their own issues, and you can return the favor as well. I think I think that's really important. You know. Another side effect of being polarized in our country is of not listening

to each other. And I think we really really need to listen to each other, and that's not happening UM

often enough. Yeah, I know you're you're right and that I want to just pick up on that what you just said at the end there about listening, because listening is not only powerful, as you are saying, for helping us understand and connect with each other, but for people who are struggling in a moment, maybe they're feeling fatigue, maybe they're feeling like they don't belong, maybe they're feeling anxious or worried. Uh, just being able to have somebody

who is willing to listen can be incredibly healing. And this is I think a part which uh sometimes people underestimate because we think someone's having metal health struggles they need to see somebody who's a licensed self professional. But it turns out that simply it is our ability to show up and listen to someone, to be fully present for them, um, to listen without judgment, um, but to create a safe space for them. That in and of

itself is incredibly healing. And when people are able to just express um what they are feeling, that's half of the challenge. You don't have to fix your friends problem, you know, all the time, your family member's problem, if they're they come to with their struggles, but knowing making it clear to them that they're You're somebody they can talk to and talk to when they're when they're struggling and when they're having you know, wonderful time, but at

all times that itself is is so healing. We'll be right back the subject about connection. I find just so important because I think it's how we're wired. But I think you know, as human beings that we were. You know, we may not all be introverts or extroverts, but we're all meant to have some degree of human connection in our life, but a lot of that connection starts uh and is grounded in our connection to ourselves, you know, which I think of as how comfortable are we in

our own skin? Like do we feel good about who we are? And this is something it doesn't come easy to a lot of people. I can say that I've certainly someone who certainly struggled a lot during my life to be comfortable in my own skin, to feel good about who I am. And that was especially true when I was a kid. I know that for you that there was a time in high school where you consider changing your name and when you experience yeah, I change it for for all of high school and mortified. But

now but I did. Yeah, it's okay, no, And look, I know that you were you know, you were bullied. I went through a fair amount of years there where I was bullied, also when I was in middle school and elementary school. And those things to leave a mark on you, Gosh, they really do. And I'm still thinking

about that today. And I'll tell you remember, in particular, one of the worst things that that happened to me as a kid was when the movie Indiana Jones came out because that movie you too, Oh my god, it's portrayal of India was just it was really quite terrible. And I had all of these kids in school for like years afterward thought that my family ate monkey brains and that we ate insects and all these things. And I was like, that's it's fine if someone does that,

but that's not not what we do. And you know, it's sort of a constant source of like ridicule and critique. Um. But with all that just said, like, you know, there are a lot of people who are struggling, kids and adults to get comfortable in their own skin. And I'm curious, like in your life, both in childhood when you were being bullied and then afterward as you sought to find your identity, what helped you persevere and what helped you

find an identity that you were comfortable with. I mean, and I'm cognizant the fact that you named your daughter Krishna, right, so you gave her a traditional name as well, which meant that you felt comfortable embracing that part of your identity. But I'm curious what helped you during those times of struggle. Interesting that you bring up Chrishna's name because she's actually

named after my grandfather, Christian Worthy. And um, you know, I knew that whatever gender my child was, whenever I had my child, I wanted to name that child after him because he was a huge influence in my life. Both my grandmother and my grandfather, my paternal grandparents were like second parents to me. And he gave me a love of books, and she gave me a love of cooking. So it's no accident that I do what I do. Um. You know, he very clearly, very early when my mother

divorced my father, it was in the early seventies. We have been very arduous and almost impossible to have a normal life in South India as a divorced parent. So you know, we took the decision as a family to move to America, and my grandfather took me aside. And I remember I was four. He made me memorize all of the states of the country of the United States, in autot of order. I don't think I could do it today. Um, And he was he wasn't you know, a lover of all things American, you know, from um,

Broadway musicals to baseball to you know, Hollywood movies. To Yankee commercials, you know all of that stuff. And Um he told me, he said, you will be treated like an outsider. They're always regardless of how much you assimilate m you know, make sure you're okay with that. It's not their fault. They don't know any better. And then over time you will also be treated as an outsider when you come home to us. And I came home all the time. I mean I was home three months

out of every year from kindergarten to high school. I went back to Um Chennai and he said, but what you have to do is be choosy enough and understand that what's difficult now will be better later because it'll give you two points of view, and you can be choosy and navigate that and keep what's best and useful about our Indian culture and maintain that even in America, and take some of the wonderful things about American culture, like standing up for yourself and knowing how to talk

well and articulately and all these things, and using that when you come home, then you'll be okay. And I do think it was very hard to chattel both cultures when I was growing up. Um and I did. I felt like an outsider in both America and India, you know, never Indian enough in India, never American enough in America. But I think that now as I've grown into myself, and you know, I'm fifty one years old, I don't

think I grew into myself until ten years ago. By the way, UM, I can see how what was difficult then and challenging then actually makes me, hopefully a more unminded person, or at least gives me double the resources from which to answer questions. You know. So I live in New York. But as you know, because you've been to my home, we you know, we remove our shoes

before we come into the home. Um. You know, there's very very many things in the way that i'm my parents that are very very Eastern or Asian, and then in a lot of ways that I'm very lax, you know, because I'm not traditionally Asian anymore. I'm in America. I grew up here, you know, And I think having both cultures to call from is an asset when you realize it. It doesn't always seem like one, especially when you're a kid,

you know. And and my grandfather, for example, he was offered a position as an ambassador by the Indian government, but he didn't want to take it because he said he didn't want to have to entertain as an ambassador and cook me in his house, you know, is it lack to a vegetarian and and so that decision didn't feel right for him. But he had the understanding of, you know, certain roles require you to bend um to certain aspects of fulfilling those roles well, and I think

it's important to know that. I think, you know, we all have to really just slow down and when we're doing things, make sure we're doing them deeply and thoughtfully and for a purpose, you know, so that it's worth it. Absolutely, it is so much in what you said that speaks

to me. Not just as you know, someone who like you shares an Indian background and heritage and grappled with a lot of those identity issues, but I think for most people as they're going through life, whether they're struggling with trying to melt to cultures or trying to find their own way in a world that's dominated by people who may not be like them or share their points of view. Um, there's a process that which we have

to grow into our own skin, if you will. And I often tell a students that one of the most important subjects that we study as ourselves getting to know ourselves and understand who we are, what we care about, understand like why we react the way we do to certain things. Uh. That helps us navigate the world. But I still feel like I'm finding my own journey you

know there as well. You know, sometimes I feel like, you know, come from my own skin, and then something will happen, you know, universe sometimes humbles you, you know, and makes you realize how you still got more growing

to do, and that certainly has happened with me. Um. But I'm just you know, as we bring our conversation of clothes, I'm I'm thinking about your our shared role as parents also, and you know, I know how dearly you love Krishna and how she's the most important person in the world to you, And I feel, you know, the same way about my my two children, they Just

and Johnathy, who are five and almost four. Um, And I think a lot about what I want for them in the world, you know, and uh, and I wanted everything I can to create that world for them, recognizing that everything is not in my control. But as you think about the world that you want for krishna Um, what does that world look like? And what gives you

hope that we can create that world. I do still have a lot of hope that we can work toward a better society because the thing that separates us from all other living features is our ability to reason and have a conscience and and have empathy. You know, I think I want a world in which, uh, everybody has access to equal opportunity. When you see the discrepancies in

education and how segregated. For example, you know New York City, which is such a diverse place, It's been the most diverse places on the planet, but when you look at our education system and you look at the different schools and you're there's so much segregation. I think it's the most segregated major city in the country. And that just shouldn't be because it's obvious that the child that's going to one school is not getting anywhere near the education

that another child is going to another school. And I think that we have to level the playing field, and we have to see it not as charity. We have to see it as an investment in our own future and our children's future because again, we share the roads and the hospitals, and the world and the skies and the streams and the water and you know, the air we breathe with each other, and so we have to share that responsibility as well with each other. UM. I think we have to wrap our heads, and I hope

we do. We're such a consumer focused society. UM, you know that that some we don't need so many things. What we need are better conditions for everybody. Um. You know, there's a lot of unhappiness. UM that has been exacerbated because of COVID, because people are seeing how unequal the world is. And you know, it's very unequal just based on your gender. It's you know, very unequal, based on the color of your skin, is very unequal, based on how much your parents make or whether you have a

college degree. And um, all jobs are important. Everyone has a role to play. You know, when we were little, we all watched Sesame Street and you had the fireman and the doctor, and the chef, and the school teacher and the scientist, um, and they were all kind of who are the people in your neighborhood? You know, we didn't say, well, these are the important people and these are the ones who should you know, have access to getting our kids into private school and all that. Um,

I think that's really important. I think when I talked to Christia about what our hopes and dreams are, I try to leave gender out of it. You know, she will have a much easier time for a whole host of reasons than I did, not only economically because of the resources she has access to, but also because she presents as a Caucasian child, you know, and and that

would just make her life easier. But I try to always instill in her what you know, my grandfather instilled in me, which is when you go to sleep today and for you, you're a child, so all you have to do is learn. You don't have to actually do anything. That's your main job to learn. You know, have you learned something today that you didn't know this morning? Or if you're an adult, have you done something today, um, to make your presence on earth, this course of this,

just this one day more worthwhile. You know, it can be anything can be you know, seeing somebody draw something and picking it up and running and say hey you dropped your hat, or helping someone across the street. That you can just make a commitment to do one random act of kindness or helping a colleague or whatever that however that looks to you, you know, we have lost the respect for everyone's effort. Somehow we aren't considering everyone's effort.

And even you know, even just the children's book Tomatoes for Nila is about stopping and respecting where tomato comes from. Who picks that tomato, and what are the conditions of their life and their work, and why we have to remember where that tomato came from, you know, where it

first grew. How do we cook it, how do we bring it home, how do we make sure we're only buying it in season, how we take care of everything we do, and how we cook that tomato to put it something in our body because we respect our body and respect our own efforts. It has to do with slowing down and being really mindful and thoughtful about everything

we do and everything we say. Things we were probably all taught when we were five or six, but have lost sight of because the world has begun to spin somehowever, fat God, that's so beautifully said Padma, And what a beautiful vision for the world for Christna, for all of our children to aspire to. I share your sense of hope that we can build that world because I I think it requires not transforming into someone that we're not.

I think it's fundamentally who we are. This is about remembering what our true instincts are, and I think our true instincts are to be loving and kind toward one another. I think over the years, circumstances make us fearful and angry toward one another. It makes us feel that, you know, life is about scarcity, and that what we get or what somebody else gets, is something that's been taken away

from us. Um. But I think that that does a disservice to our history and to our true nature, which is I think, to be more kind and more connected with one another and this vision every so much of what we've talked about today has been about connection, and I think that the pandemic is I think, as you said, I think so eloquently in the beginning, the pandemic has reminded us of why that connection is so important, because we can get through our day is much less a

pandemic without the help of somebody else. Um. Finally, when I think about my kids too, I want for them, what what you want for Krishna. I want a world that is fueled by love and kindness, not by fear and anger. I want for them to grow up in a community where people accept them for who they are, and where people ask questions before they judge them or blame them. And I want my kids to be the same toward other people, to give them the benefit of the doubt, and to contribute to that sort of world

grounded and compassion and care um. So I think we can get there. I mean, I think it starts with getting to know one another, with taking time to pause in our incredibly fast paced lives and ask ourselves that bigger question the pandemic is forced, which is what matters truly to our happiness? What's really meaningful in our relationships? What do we really want out of life? So I'm

so grateful that we had this conversation, Padma. Whenever we have a chance to talk to one another, you always teach me things but also make me think about the world in in deeper ways. And so I so appreciate you and everything you're doing in the world right now. Oh, thank you so much. You know, even with anger, I think we're all there's a lot of anger in the world. But I think one thing to remember when you encounter anger is that anger is just pain with nowhere to go.

And sometimes just acknowledging that we're all hurting, um, and that this person is angry because they've been hurt in some way, you know, whether that's been intentional or not. That is, that is the the effect of what something that's happened to them, that's done to them. And so just remembering that and and just saying, I'm not going to add to that, you know, even if they're adding to my own plight of anger, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to be the one to write

that cycle if possible. Um. And often it does just take some thoughtfulness, it really does. It's Um, we look at the beautiful world. Human kind is already created. You know, we are capable of so much good. We're also capable of, uh, you know, tearing each other apart. But let's use our forces in power for good. We deserve it and me be good. Absolutely well, beautifully said, and what an inspiring note. D end On Padma, thank you so much for this conversation.

I'm sending my love to you and to Krishna Thank you to your family. Also, it's so nice to speak with you again, Vivic. I wish you much success and they used to come in your new or renew job as surgeon General. All right, take care everyone, Thanks again so much. Next Question with Katie Kirk is a production of My Heart Media and Katie Kirk Media. The executive producers Army, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Littz. The supervising producer

is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements and Adriana Fasio. The show is edited and mixed by Derrek Clements. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my morning newsletter wake Up Call, go to Katie correct dot com. You can also find me at Katie Correct on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,