Bonus: Dr. Anthony Fauci breaks down confusion around the Delta variant, breakthrough cases, and more

we're here to explain it all. Take a listen, spread the word, and let's end this pandemic already, right, guys. I know I am sick of it, and I'm sure you are too. A friend of mine recently described getting the vaccine shots as the Fauci alci, So please get yours if you haven't already. Okay, here's Dr Fauci. Dr Fauci. This pandemic was supposed to be in our rear view mirror at this point, but as you recently said, the country may be in trouble this fall. How frustrated are you? Well,

it is. It is a frustration, Katie, but it's just the reality. The virus that we're dealing with is a different virus than we were dealing with several months ago, and we just have to deal with the reality of that it's a more formidable virus. It translates much more efficiently, and even individuals who have vaccinated, even though they are largely protected from serious disease, nonetheless can get infected and

even transmitted. Let me ask you about that, because I think Dr Fauci there's been a lot of confusion about this delta variant even if you're vaccinated. The CDC says you can spread it and compared it in fact to the chicken pox, but the White House COVID Response Team pushed back on that assessment. Can you clarify once and for all if vaccinated people can spread the delta variant

at the same rate as unvaccinated people. Okay, let me first say one thing that will be a background that will clarify the vaccine is doing exactly what we wanted it to do. It's preventing people from getting seriously ill. That's the reason why you get vaccinated. However, this virus is so transmissible that it can infect even though it's

a small fraction. It can infect vaccinated people almost invariably in a way that they're either without symptoms or only mildly symptomatic, So it's less that it's going to make the vaccinated person sick. It's more that it's going to allow the vaccinated person to transmit it to someone else who might get sick, like a vulnerable person in the family,

an elderly individual, a child who's unvacccinated. So the issue with a person who is vaccinated who gets infected, the level of virus in the naso pharynx of that person is relatively equivalent to that of an unvaccinated person, which means there's a mechanism to say that that person very well might be able to transmit it, and in fact, we have documented cases where a vaccinated infected person did transmit So it can be transmitted in a vaccinated person

at the same rate as an unvaccinated You know, it is potentially. I want to clarify for you because I do want to make sure there's no confusion. The level of virus in the naso pharynx of a person who's vaccinated and infected is the same level as the level of virus in the nasal pharynx of an unvaccinated person, So you can make a reasonable some shan that they can be equivalent in how they transmit. However, there's one

thing that works in favor of the vaccinated person. That level, though it starts off the same as an unaffected as an unvaccinated person, it decreases much more quickly because of the vaccine exactly exactly. Cases are rising in forty nine states, with a handful of states experiencing serious surges. But the good news is the vaccination rates in many of these states is increasing as well. In fact, American adults have now gotten at least one dose of the vaccine. The

question is, is hurt im mutity still possible at this point. Yes, it is, but it won't happen Katie unless we get a vast majority of the nine three million people who are still unvaccinated who are eligible to be vaccinated. Unless we get them vaccinated, they are not going to contribute to the concept of her immunity. So her immunity, there's a concept of her community, which means you have enough vaccinated people plus people who were infected and protected so

that the virus doesn't have any place to go. There aren't any vulnerable targets. We're not there yet. We don't know what the percentage is. Is that going to be the people who are still unvaccinated or is that going to be eighty five or eighty We don't know. When you don't know, you know what you do. You just get as many people vaccinated as you possibly can. Just as a delta variant has now become part of our vocabulary, we're hearing about new variants, this be one six to

one in Florida, the delta plus variant. Which variants, Dr Fauci are you most concerned about and are you worried that the current vaccines will not be effective against them? Well, I am worried more about a variant that we haven't

even seen yet, because they can. But the current delta variant is so efficient in its ability to crowd out the other variants that even though there are the variants you mentioned, which there's no reason to believe that they're going to be worse than the delta variant, they are not being over they're not overtaking the delta variants. So the one good thing is that the vaccines work quite well against the delta variant in some respects. It's good

that the delta variant is not being outstripped. By the others because we know we can deal with the delta variant really quite well. My concern is that if we allow there to be smoldering infection into the fall and into the winter, because those nine million people are not getting vaccinated for the most part, my concern would be, you may allow a variant that we haven't even recognized yet to come along and in fact be better at

transmitting and more serious than the delta. We haven't seen that yet, So rather than be worrying about these others that are around, let's make sure we don't let new ones come in well our unvaccinated people. The reason we're seeing these new strains and will an increase in vaccinations mitigate the virus morphine in multiple ways? Well, that's a good one because the answer is short, yes, Okay, that's all you need to say. So, in other words, please

get vaccinated more with Dr Anthony Fauci. Right after this, let's talk about boosters that who just announce more a toorium on booster shots until more countries can get ahold of the vaccine. But companies like fisers saying their efficacy decreases after about six months and a number of countries Israel, Germany, in the UK, among others, are starting to offer booster shots. Where do you stand on boosters for the US. I

think we can do both, Katie. I think if we need an additional boost an initial dose to get the optimal protection because it essentially attendued for a while. I believe that we can do that in this country, particularly for people who are immunely suppressed, people who are on cancechemo therapy, people who have transplant, they very well may need as part of their primary regimen a three shot boost of an m R and A. We are doing a lot, and we will be doing more to supply

doses internationally. I believe that we are capable, not only our own nation, but also the other wealthy nations in the world can do both. You certainly want to pay very good attention to getting vaccine doses to the developing world, but I believe you can do both. You can boost and get doses to them. If you get a J and J or a Maderna vaccine. Can you get a fisor boostere you have to stick with one brand. Well,

we're doing studies right now. They're referred to as mix and match studies to see if there's any issue with giving one vaccine as the prime followed by the other is the boost, or giving two of the same and then let the third one be different. As as a scientist, I don't think there's going to be an issue with that, but you want to formally prove it, and that's the

studies that are being done to do that. A lot of duct ers in hospitals nationwider saying the population of patients they're seeing this go around is very different than the initial surges. They're younger, they're in their twenties and thirties, Younger, sicker, quicker. Do we know why it is that, in your view,

convincing younger people to get vaccinated. Well, in answer to your second question, I hope the realization that you're not exempt from getting either seriously ill with COVID nineteen or even getting long COVID after you recover, which is something that people should take seriously, namely the persistence of symptoms. One of the likely reasons that may be more than

one one. One of the reasons you might be seeing, relatively speaking, more young people being hospitalized is that first you're dealing with a very transmissible virus, so everybody who's unvaccinated is getting infected. The seeing more young versus older because we all we know that the elderly population is already vaccinated, so there's a skewing that among the unvaccinated,

relatively speaking, more of them are young. So it is not surprising that when you look at hospitalizations you're seeing relative to the elderly, it looks like they're are more young than are being hospitalized. That's very true because the elderly are more protected because more of them are vaccinated. Let's talk about breakthrough cases. My understanding is they're being trapped only if they require hospitalization or death. Shouldn't we

be tracking breakthrough cases among the general population. I imagine that would be pretty difficult to do, but especially if you're some asymptomatic. But isn't that something we should be focused on so we can get real numbers about the

you know, who is getting COVID after vaccination? Well, yeah, but you really want to do it what the Israelis have done and what the Brits have done, But most of the Israelis is rather than do it generally the population that when you get someone who's infected and they're asymptomatic. You test all of their context, not just the context of the sick people. And the CDC is going to be starting to do that, in fact, they already are.

Was that a mistake to not do it right away, because I don't know it just hospitalizations or deaths seem to be uh, you know, not the not the whole picture. Yeah, no, Kattie, I'm not going to answer that directly. When I say something of a mistake or not, it's an automatic sound bite. It's not productive, So I'll refrain size the CDC's protocol. I think the c DHC tries their very best. They don't always get it right, but they definitely try their best,

and they're very competent. Last weekend, almost four hundred thousand people went to Lollapalooza. Attendees this was a big music festival in Chicago. Attend needed to provide their vaccine card or negative COVID task in order to go. But looking at those photos and Millennial Park that they freaked you out. I was a bit taken aback by the by the

film clips that I saw. There were a lot of people crowded around together, you know, and given the fact that we know that vaccinated people can spread infection, and even though we know that outdoors is always safer than indoors, there was a really lot of crowded that we saw in those films. So I got a little bit concerned about that myself. Would you avoid those kinds of crowds if it were you, or if it were me or

my daughters. I'm pretty risk averse, Katie, so I would even though I'm vaccinated, I don't think I would go to a really massively crowded where you essentially face to face with somebody. I would be concerned about that. They've been suggestions, most notably by former HHS Secretary Alex A. S Our. President Trump could do more to convince the unvaccinated. Nearly of Republicans say they're not planning to be vaccinated, and the Democrats could be giving President Trump work credit

for Operation Work Speed. Do you agree and are there other ways to depute the simple act of getting vaccinated? Well, I think there needs to be deep politicizing always when you're in a public health issue. I've been saying that

for a year and a half. Sometimes it has gotten me to be the brunt of people's criticism because there is politicization, usually by people who are trying to exam for example, say we shouldn't be doing the things that are public health measures, and I think that that's really unfortunately. What I'm what I'm hardened by is that we are seeing Republican leaders who are saying get vaccinated. I mean, Governor asked Asa Hutchinson is beating the bushes in Arkansas

doing that. Steve Scalise has has really been promoting vaccines. Even even Governor de Santis in Florida has been saying that despite the fact that he is saying that he doesn't want there to be masked mandates, he is encouraging vaccination, which is good. New York City will be become the first US city to will require proof of at least one vaccination shot in order to interplaces like bars, restaurants, and gems. Do you think the strategy should be adopted nationwide?

It seems to be a pretty good way to motivate people to get vaccinated. I do think that as a public health person, we should be putting more pressure on

people to get vaccinated. And I believe when the f DA comes through, hopefully within the next few weeks, to make this in officially approved vaccines plural as opposed to just an eu A. I hope that we will then have people feel much more empowered to do some kind of mandating, For example, universities and colleges saying you're not going to be able to come in person unless you get vaccinated. I think that would chuck a lot of young people who are who are resistant to get vaccinated.

I think large corporations will be doing the same thing. I was gonna ask you that Google, Microsoft, Tyson's Foods requiring employees to be fully vaccinated. Do you think that more will be empowered after I'm Katie, I'm convinced to that.

I think that if you talk to people you know off the record that don't want to be talking about it publicly, they're saying that once they get the backup of a fully approved vaccine, they will be much more enthusiastic about mandating for their enterprise that you need to be eaccinated. After this break, Dr Fauci answers your most pressing questions. We're gonna do a quick round robin of

practical advice from questions we got from social media. Dr Fauci, should people be wearing masks regardless of their vaccination status indoors I think is probably more specific. Yes, that's a CDC recommendation and I totally agree with it. How do the COVID variants affect children under five? I'm concerned about them getting sick from the virus with a new variants

and no protection. Well, you should be concerned, because everyone is susceptible, whether you're a child, an adult, or an elderly. If you're unvaccinated, you are susceptible. It is true that young children generally do not get as seriously involved with a severe full of COVID nineteen when they're very, very young. But we are starting to see in real time that there are now young people who you would have expect

were less likely who are getting seriously ill. There have been close to four hundred, about three hundred and fifty plus children who have died thus far from COVID nineteen. That's more than influenza in any given year. That's more than a respiratory since the ChIL virus in any given year. That's still a mystery. Well, why some people get sick

and some people don't? Soul Sorry, One Florida grandmother who's fully vaccinated, wanted me to ask you if she should wear a mask when visiting her babysitting her fourign six year old grandsons, especially since they're not required to wear a mask in school. If Grandma is unvaccinated, she doescinated, then she doesn't need to wear a mask. But does she doesn't need to worry about the delta variant being

transfer from the children to her. No, when you are in the home setting, if you have vaccinated and you have children in the home setting, you do not need to wear a mask. Speaking of schools, there is still no real consensus on how to keep kids uh safe in school as well as teachers, and that's creating a ton of anxiety. As you know, people are kind of pulling out their hair thinking, oh my god, do I

have to deal with this again this school year? Um, what do you say to parents and school officials facing another uncertain year? Well, there are a couple of ways to safeguard children and get them back to school in person. It is a very important primary goal in the full to get the children in class and not virtual because we are well aware of the delaterious effects on children, their development, their mental health, there, educational development, to get

them in school. Therefore, we've got to make sure they're safe in school. There are a couple of ways to do that. Get the people who are eligible to be vaccinated around the children, get them vaccinated, teachers, school staff, and anybody else. For those who are not able to be vaccinated, the only way you can protect them, and the CDC recommendations are clear. In school, everyone should be masked,

whether you're vaccinated or not. That's a very clear recommendation by the c d C. When will the vaccine be available for children under twelve, We don't know the answer to that, Katie. We are doing studies to getting information that would be able to validate a decision to do that.

We're collecting those data, will get more and more of it as we've approached the full but ultimately that will be a regulatory decision by the FDA, together with an advisory a condition from the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices that advises the CDC. So this may take quite a while. Well, I hope it doesn't take quite a while. I hope we do within the next several months, but I hope before the end of the year. But we don't know

that that's the sea. That's an FDA decision. Someone on our team is asking, if vaccinated people can spread the virus, why aren't they required to be quarantined if they've been exposed to someone who has tested positive. No, you just need to test if you've been exposed, you don't need to quarantine. Someone says, I'm being treated for Lukenian to not make antibodies from the vaccine. What can I do to protect myself? Well, that's an individual first of all,

to wear a mask, that's the first thing. But I hope that we will provide protection for that individual and people in her same situation by relatively quickly making the decision to get an additional dose. To immune suppressed people, they are a different category than a healthy or even an elderly healthy person, because a person who is either immune is suppressed from transplant, from chemotherapy, or from immune suppression likely never made an adequate immune response to begin with.

Someone asked Dr Fauci if emmy suppressing drugs reduced the efficacy of the COVID vaccine. Absolutely absolutely, it does. It does so, so it's not if you're go ahead. If you are immune is suppressed because of the drugs that you are taking for transplant, for cancer, chemotherapy, or for an autoimmune disease. The drugs that you receive suppress your disease also suppress your ability to respond to the vaccine. So you should talk to your doctor about getting getting

a booster shot. And you know when this whole thing started, I remember summer was the time when it wasn't going to be very contagious and wasn't going to be a problem because people were going to be spending more time outside. So that hasn't been the case. What do you foresee for the fall and winter, more lockdowns? What do you think is going to happen? I don't see lockdowns because there is substantial enough proportion of the population that it's

fully vaccinated. Six there are seventy of the adults have at least a single dose that it was accomplished a couple of days ago, and we have more than eight of the elderly population that are vaccinated. Under those circumstances, you're still going to have a lot of spread if we don't get that ninety three million people who are eligible to be vaccinated vaccinated, but you won't have such a situation that would trigger a lockdown. I would be

very surprised if that happens. What you will have is spread of infection predominantly among the unvaccinated, and you will see hospitalizations predominantly among the unvaccinated as we go through the fall and into the winter if we don't very aggressively get people vaccinated. We got so many comments about you and from people who deeply admire you, Dr Fauci and the job you've done. What's the best advice you've

give been given about how to get through these tumultuous times. Well, I mean, I think what you need to do if you're in a position like I am, as a public health person and a scientist and person who develops vaccines, is to just focus on your job. We're in a very difficult position. We have things going against us. A, we have a very formidable virus and be we have a very divisive society where you just can't run away from the fact that there's a lot of bad news

politics going on here. We've got to focus on our job. And if you're not a medical person and you're trying to get just through this a get vaccinated and be obey or listen to as it were I wouldn't say obey because that's not an order. They're not ordering you do it, but listen to the recommendations of the c D c Dr Fauci. Always great to see you. Thank you so much for talking with me. You've got to reach people. However you can write yes, thank you for

having me, Katie. It's always a pleasure to be with you. Next Question with Katie Couric is a production of I Heart Media and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers Army, Katie Couric, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements, Adrianna Fasio, and Emily Pinto. The show is edited and mixed by Derrek Clements. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go to Katie currect dot com.

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