Bonus: An interview with California Gov. Gavin Newsom

few months. It's been difficult today, but the next few months and years are going to be challenging. Governor Newsome has been praised for his proactive leadership and swift response to the coronavirus crisis. California had the first recorded death of COVID nineteen weeks before any other state. Yet California has managed to avoid the catastrophic spread we've seen in other places. Governor Newsom gives us a sense of where he thinks California and all of us are headed, but

first to understand what guided his initial response. We started our conversation in the early days of the pandemic. I think for us early on was as early as middle January, we started the first phone calls back and forth with the CDC and h S s UH to begin the process of making a determination whether or not we would support the repatriation flights UH six flights from mainland China American citizens and bring them to our Air Force BASS

in the state of California. It really brought to the four what this pandemic was, what it wasn't, and really focused our attention and acuity. And then, of course the Grand Princess cruise Line. A few weeks later, we were faced with the decision what to do with the San Francisco based cruise line UH that had dozens of passengers and crew that had tested positive, and that really brought the whole issue to our shores even sooner than any

other states. So there was a consciousness, a seriousness of focus, and that led to Mayor Breed and other Bay Area leaders to move forward first with stay at home orders and allowed me the confidence to roll out statewide with their concurrence in their direction, the first statewide stay at home order. You were really guided by both science and technology,

weren't you. Yeah, we had the benefit. I mean, look, you're you're one of the most resourced states in the world, the fifth largest economy in the world, forty million Californians strong, but also approximate to Silicon Valley and some of the greatest tools of technology and innovation in the world. That we love to say about the region, the future happens

there first. And so as a consequence, so many people came uh to the four that we're already working in China, that already had partnerships in China that were already attuned to the seriousness of this, that we're tracking movement, tracking the disease, and we were able to procure a number of those tools of technology early on that really created transparency and a dashboard about the spread of this virus and the capacity to deliver on our promotion of a

stay at home order and whether or not people are actually abiding by it. Do you worry about privacy? Obviously, you're monitoring people's movements through technology, gaining a greater understanding of pooh staying put? Who isn't. Do you feel people are willing to give up their privacy in order to make sure that the community stays healthy. Yeah, we want them to make that decision. We don't make that decision

for them, and we went so far. Is not just to say that rhetorically, California leads the nation in terms of our efforts the focus on online privacy. We have one of the most progressive bills in the United States we passed last year in terms of obligations of these tech companies to make information public. So we brought in two Obama expats that the head of their Digital innovation and their ct O A raj A. Batel and and and brought in Todd Park to help guide our privacy efforts.

They're part of our technical team. And so there's a privacy first framework. So all the data we're using is either open sourced or its public health data that has been traditionally provided in animalized ways UH in aggregate ways where no privacy UH concerns or considerations are at play. You've announced the stages of your reopening plan. I'm just gonna synthesize them for folks. Stage one is stay at

home flatten the curve. Stage two, lifting restrictions on lower risk workplaces such as retail manufacturing and offices where telework are working from home, is impossible. Also, child care centers stage three months away. You say personal care businesses like gems, spas, salons, sports without live audiences in person, religious services, and other businesses where workers come in close contact with each other.

And stage four would be the end of stay at home orders and the highest risk parts of the economy like concert sporting events with live audiences and conventions could re emerge. So I know you haven't put a time frame, Governor Newsom on this reopening plants and the various stages and when they will all happen, But any idea when you might be able to actually go to stage four where things would get relatively back to normal. I mean stage four is a therapeutic stage. Stage four is an

immunity stage. Phase four is a vaccine stage. Uh, and that likely won't happen anytime soon. That's what we say, months many many months in stage four. I think that's realistic. Look, we don't. We don't play around with dates and deadlines for one reason. Uh. Their arbitrary, not based on anything except instinct. We are prone uh if we do that to make decisions that aren't based on fact, on data,

on real science. So when I say weeks I I hope it's weeks, uh, and based upon our current trend lines, we believe it is weeks for phase one and our modifications are staying home order. We do believe it's a month or months for those subsequent phases, but that's really a determination of where the virus spread is in our capacity to deal with an increase in spread, our hospitals and their ability to deal with searge, our ability to trace and track individuals and isolate people, not just to

test them at the scale of testing that's required. What are you most concerned about, Governor, as California and other states for that matter, emerge from this. I think my biggest fear is fatigue. My biggest fear is we run the ninety r dash. My biggest fear is all the progress that's been made over the course of the last you know, ninety days, particularly in the state of California that really started in on this in late January, can

be thrown out in the matter of of weeks. Uh. My biggest fear is that we think this virus is taking weekends off so we can take the weekend at the beach. My biggest fear, as we think, all right, just because it's getting warm, it's going to take the summer off and go on spring break. My biggest fear, UH is that we have people that are asymptomatic that come home to mom and dad and grandpa, and people would compromise immune system only to find out that they're

in the ICU uh seven eight days later. So I'm fearful of all of those things. That's why I'm sober about this. I want to get back to work, and I started in the private sector. I've created twenty plus businesses, restaurants, hotels, wineries. Deeply, I'm connected uh to the stress and anxiety are small business men and women have and people that desperately need

to go back to work. At the same time, we gotta keep people healthy, and the best way to go back to work is to tamin this to suppress the spread uh, And that's why we are fixated on that being our indicator for decision, not arbitrary timelines. Governor knewso l A has instituted some pretty strict measures, especially regarding beaches, but other counties like Orange County, in Ventura County, They're beaches last weekend look like Fort Lauderdale during spring break.

I know you chastise those people, but is there more that you can do to make sure that people actually pay attention and follow the guidelines. In Orange County, they have the fourth highest of all fifty eight counties in the state, fourth highest rate of hospitalizations l a San Diego that have done an amazing job of managing their beaches. About a hundred large beaches in California, there were five that were any problem. Overwhelming majority of jurisdictions did a

magnificent job in What about the ones that aren't. Yeah, they're the ones that that didn't are unfortunate. And Saturday you saw big spikes. Sunday, Uh, it was mitigated a bit. And I can assure you I'm not waiting for this weekend.

Then we'll be making an announcement and very short order about efforts to curb the crowds coming into this weekend and potentially even next On Thursday, Governor Newsom announced that California will close state and local beaches only in Orange County, that's one of the top counties in the state for coronavirus cases and hospitalizations. He assured Californians, however, that this was a temporary measure. We can reopen very very quickly. But we gotta we gotta make sure we can get

this right. Um, why undo all the great progress. Let's let's move this state forward together. We'll be back with more from Governor Gavin Newsom in just a moment. We're back with California Governor Gavin news Them. This has been financially devastating for everyone, including your state, and you have to have a balanced budget, Governor, And something's got to give. Spending cuts, tax increases, the impact on schools, on so

many different social services. So what will California look like in one given the traumatic experience of of this pandemic. This time last year, Katie, we were debating how to balance our budget with a twenty one point four billion dollars surplus. This time last year, a twenty one point four billion dollars operating surplus. I announced in January my expectation for the next fiscal year that surplus would be roughly six billion. That was eight or so weeks ago.

We are going to be announcing on Monday tens of billions of dollars in deficit, just like that. The magnitude of this is jaw dropping, and it's much worse than respectfully. I think people think because every time new numbers come out jobless numbers that's lagging. We have three point seven million Californians that had filed for unemployment insurance just since March twelfth, just since March twelfth, not January twelve, March twelve.

We have to put this in perspective, and that's why I understand boy to understand the economic desire to start reopening. And that's the give and take, that's the struggle. This is the dialectic of our time, and there's a lot of white water, a lot of friction that's going to happen in the next few months. It's been difficult to day, but the next few months and years are going to be challenging. So the answer to that question, California is

not going to be very pretty. It's gonna be more chill. Look, I'm I think this state because of its size, its scope, because the diversity of within the economy, the fact that we were running twenty billion dollar surplus a couple of years ago, that we have historic reserves we had forgiving, but we had our bond writing increased twice last year.

Our borrowing capacity is better than most states uh. And we have remarkable leaders in this state that continue to thrive despite this pandemic, particularly the tech community and elsewhere. We may do better than most, but the magnitude of these deficits is extraordinary. And my biggest fear is this we better learn the lesson from twenty oh a, meaning so many people haven't even recovered from the Great Recession, low income workers, where their wages have been flat, and

they're the most vulnerable in this pandemic. And so we really have to be I think, much more aggressive in addressing economic justice and addressing the framework of social justice as our number one priority. Let us not make the mistakes we made of the bailouts the last time, not getting down to real people in diverse communities. That's our principal obligations. Meanwhile, it doesn't sound as if Mitch McConnell

is going to be much help. He doesn't want the federal government to help the state or local level, and he in fact has said it's the state's fault for mismanaging money. I know you've said that his his position is offensive. But without federal help, how are you going to manage to balance your budget? How are you going to manage to serve the people of California. You can imagine since he's been Republican leader, every year the deficits

have gotten bigger under his watch. How galling that comment is to a state like California, where are surpluses got bigger as his deficits got bigger in terms of mismanagement, and particularly a state that historically has been a huge donor state. UH, to other red states, it is galling, and I think many governors have made that point, and so we have to balance our budgets. They don't. But we're Americans. Forty million Americans live in the state of California.

It's not a blue state. It's in America states part of the Union. Twenty six of our fifty AC counties went for Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell's party in the last election. Uh. They matter to UH, and so I hope they disabuse themselves of this notion, UH that we are all on our own when we're many parts but one body. It's the United States of America, and when one part suffers, we all suffer. That's the spirit of

the Commonwealth, that's the spirit of our founding fathers. I think it would be nice if Mitch McConnell others would read a little bit about our own history. The best and better angels that define the best of the American spirit, and it's this notion that we're all in this together. There's no leak on your side of our boat. We need the federal government's help and support. How do you

think President Trump has handled this crisis overall? I am gonna leave that more independent minds were in the middle of this pandemic, and I'm trying every single day to save lives. I can only say this, and I know people, depending on their political stripes, can get offended by it. I'm well aware of it. I'm by the way, involved

in sixty eight lawsuits for the Trump administration. So there is you know, we talk about California, the friction between the administration and the state second to no other state. But the interactions we've had directly with the administration, because they think they go back to January, Uh, the level of engagement has been relatively favorable. I can't say that. It can't be said rather for many other states, but

it has been favorable for the state of California. So I can only speak from that prison, from that perspective. Do you feel as if you have to mind your p's and queues and not criticize the administration too much? Governor less you incur the wrath of President Trump is Governor Insley did in Washington State. Yeah, I mean there probably is a little of that, But you know what, you also can't make up reasons to disagree in fingerpoint. I mean, I look, my my My decision every day

is not to wake up with my fist clenched. Uh, it's to have my hands open, my heart open too, opportunity, learning new ideas and support and we'll take support wherever we can get it. And I called let me just you know, forgive me, but give you. For instance, we've had a lot of questions and the aggregate about testing supplies. So rather than complaining about it, which I could have done, got a lot of attention gone on all the nightly shows. Um, I made a phone call and I asked the President

directly answered the phone, here's what I need. And you know, next day quite literally arrived. And so that's that's the specific experience. But again I deeply recognize that doesn't exist in other parts of the country. Working together is one thing, but now he's using you and one of his campaign re election videos. How do you feel about that. I've been It's I've been in this. I've been an elected office for twenty plus years. Uh, I've seen plenty of things.

Nothing surprises me. We're getting into an election season very shortly. I'm doing an event for Joe Biden. I have my candidate. Uh. We're in sixty eight lawsuits with the administration. Uh is what it is. But again, one thing I'm not going to do. My mother taught me this. I mean, as always raised when you ask for something and someone does something for you, to express appreciation and gratitude, and if you don't, then you lose your character, lose a little

of your own veracity. Um. And I could play to that, I could play to the partisanship, But I got forty million Californians, forty million Americans that deserved me to figure out a way to do better and do more, to get along and and engage in the spirit of collaboration without focusing on everything just being politics. Have you endorsed Joe Biden for president yet? Yeah. We have a big event on the eighth of this month, so we are very involved. And how do you feel about the way

candidate Vice President Biden has been responding to this pandemic? Governor? What is he doing well? And should he be doing anything differently? Because many people are saying they need to see Joe Biden out there and more talking about this pandemic. Do you agree. I'd love to see him there more. But the challenges we're out there almost ubiquitous. The wall to wall governors, Uh, it's it's the nature of the moment. You would have thought governors didn't exist. A year ago.

It was hard to get any governors to get any attention to what they were doing in their states. And the only thing we were talking about three months ago was, you know, it was Cornaki on the big screen going back and forth about every census track in every district, comparing elections in the primary. It's just the nature of the eb and flow of these things. You can't criticize or critique that coverage. Is just the nature of where

they we are in this pandemic. But we'll start to see some focus and you'll see a lot more attention on the vice president and that will be a healthy thing very soon. Governors aren't fact getting a lot of attention you and and Andrew Cuomo. I think or even though you've been doing this for quite a while and been in public service almost your entire adult lives seven, you seem to be the rising stars of the Democratic Party. Well, yeah,

I know. I I just got here as governor a year or so ago, and certainly Andrew's been around a long time and been a friend for years, back from his a G days when I just become mayor of San Francisco. So look, I think it's wonderful to see. And it's not just some of the bigger states, some of these smaller states. The collaborative spirit. I'm in a partnership with governors in four other states, in Colorado, Nevada, Oregon,

in Washington. It's the spirit of collaboration and cooperation. There's an old saw that says, if you don't like the whale the world looks when you're standing up, stand on your head and go local. Some more markable things are happening at the local level, the regional level, and at the state level, and there's a spirit of collaboration that's alive and well across jurisdictions that should give people confidence in our future. Uh not just getting through this moment.

But moreover, I hope we can extend that spirit into environmental stewardship and economic and social justice, uh, into reimagining a future that's brighter. And so I think this in a perverse way, is really you know, strengthen our muscles of collaboration. It's gonna pay real dividends into the future. I'm sure I won't be the first or last person to ask you this, but I can't help it. Governor Newsome, would you are you thinking about running for president? I

mean absolutely, unequivocally, without hesitation. Forgive the long windedness not uh just have not uh and haven'ts not just never been in aspiration of mind. It's never been a focus. I Uh, this is a This isn't a job I always wanted. Government is a dream job. It's a nation state of the state for and born more scientists, more researchers, more engineers, more Nobel laureate It's more venture capital emanating out of the state, the fifth largest economy and planet Earth.

What a gift, what an absolute gift. We can make California thrive to be a model for the nation. Uh. And what what an incredible opportunity. I just got here a year ago and thinking about other things, Uh, would not do justice to doing my job and in the work ahead of us when we come back. For Governor Newsom, the homeschooling struggle is real. How he's coping with four kids underfoot? Now back to the final part of my conversation with California Governor Gavin Newsom. You have four kids?

How are you guys doing with stay at home? That is well, now you have the real answer to that last question. Four kids, Katie, how are you handling this? We need to reopen the schools immediately, please, We're desperate right away. Uh. Look, it shapes It shapes everything my

my my good days and my more challenging days. It is I'll tell you the one thing it does so boy, it sharpens my appreciation for women, for mothers, uh, for caregivers, uh, for the disproportionate amount of work women do in the household that is now even made more visible. And I think this Mother's Day bet will be the biggest Mother's day in the history of mankind. How old are your kids now? The youngest just just turned four. Uh. And it still reminds me of the two's if you know

what I mean. Uh, And we have the oldest is just ten and homeschooling. Oh my gosh. The teachers talk about American heroes, nurses, doctors, and the teachers. It's hard. The kids just have remarkable inability to want to be taught by their parents, but a remarkable capacity he taught by our teachers. And so that's why I say, let's safely and responsibly reopen these schools because we care. And I know that's something you're thinking about, but there's a

lot that will go into that. And a lot of folks are debating whether school should open this summer because they have to make up for lost time, and that's something you're looking into as well. Well. This learning loss is real. It's real every summer. You know, that summer, believed, particularly from a socio economic disproportionately impacts black and brown communities and we've never addressed that in a meaningful way.

By the way, all of this has been exposed with distance learning and WiFi capacity, the ability for a family with many kids to have more than just even one tablet, or have one tablet and own alone. Uh. And all of that, of course has made more problematic as we moved through this pandemic, and so we're talking about opening potentially.

I know summer schools upon us quickly, but we are considering opening up the school year a little bit earlier, late July early August, to see if we can make up for a little that gives us a little more to I'm on the summer school to more safely plan physical and environmental planning, but then would provide us the opportunity to maybe make up for some of that learning laws. So we're having deep conversations. That's a big scale operation, six million kids in California, So if we can do it,

I think others can as well. But it's a it's a big herculean effort. Governor Gavin Newsome, Governor, thanks for talking to me. Really appreciate your time. No manor, thanks for having me. That was California Governor Gavin Newsom speaking with me for the video series Time Reports with Katie Currect. You can check out those videos on Time dot com

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