Back to Biz with Katie and Boz: La La Anthony

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You can find jobs with the work life balance and salary you want, Plus build a resume and apply to multiple jobs in just one click. Start your search at career builder dot com. All right, everybody, m my post with St. John. You're listening to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows, except there is no Katie this week because she is on excessive book deadline. And so I am flying solo. Um, I'm terrified. I'm very very scared

to fly solo. But it's okay. You know why it's okay because I have my very good girlfriend who is an incredible person um, not just an entertainer and not just a creator, but an all around incredible woman who is joining me today La La Anthony, and I'm so I'm so happy to be here. You're gonna be fine riding solo tonight. I got your back. Don't worry about that. You are great and everything you do. I appreciate you so much. I do you. You've really you've done it all.

You've done it all, and you inspire me because there are so many facets of not just your personality, but you're ingenuity, your innovation, the way that you transform yourself that I think so many people could learn from. You know, we were in this time in which so many people are trying to figure out what they're gonna do right.

It feels like a moment where we're all trying to re energize and trying to figure out how to create in this time when there is so much chaos happening, you know, and trying to reinvent, and you, my dear, are the queen of reinvention. But can we also just talk about how we first met, because I feel like you're my bestie and I think I think I'm one

of them, Yes exactly. I'm just saying that, yes, one of them, because otherwise other people get mad, that's right, and other your best seas will get mad too if we just played each other, only because we do run into quite a crew of impressive women. But from what I remember, I've always known who you were. I was always paying attention to all the amazing things that you've done. And then I remember us meeting at the b E

t Hert Awards. Yes, I said, my cousin was with me, and I was like, you gotta go say how to her? And then like bring me over there and introduced me. But like, don't make it obvious. I want to meet her, but I don't want to look too thirsty. So can

you act like you want to meet her? And then like we we I don't even know if you know that story, but we playing out and then when it went in for the kill, and then I came by and we met, and I don't know, it's like it was like we've known each other our whole lives and

we just did it all from there. No, seriously, because of feeling the feeling that I had and said, I've always seen you, you know, I've always seen you either on TV or I've seen you at different industry events or whatnot, and so I knew of you, and I know you were sweet, like you're always very kind, you know, whenever we passed each other and whatever event, um always really really nice. But then yes, when your cousin came up to me, I was like, oh, yes, here's my information.

I think I had for every piece of contact information. I was like, here's my cell phone, here's my second cell phone number, there's my email address, and also my daughter's birthday. I was like, whatever, whatever she needs, like have a contact with But I just just love you, glad, grateful. Yes, we've had an amazing friendship. And it's always important to surround yourself with people that inspire you and people that push you and motivate you to do more and and

just fulfill your purpose and your passion. So you're definitely one of those people in my life and I really appreciate that. Well, thank you, honey. I mean the truth of the matter, though, is that you too, you're not new to this, okay, like you you've been at this, at this aim of entertainment, of reinvention of storytelling, which I find is, you know, sort of a cornerstone of my own career in a different standpoint, because you've been, i mean on on the microphone and in front of

cameras for a long time. Can you talk about how you first started, because it was like fifteen or sixteen years old right in Atlanta. Yeah, so I started. I wasn't intern at sixteen years old at the radio station in Atlanta. It was the same radio station that Ludacris worked at, but at that time he went under the name Chris Love a Lover. So he was there and he had been in the game radio game longer than me. He's older than me, so he had been there a few years. And then I came up and I had

just moved to Atlanta from New York. I'm from New York and my mom wanted to get out of New York and go to Atlanta. So we went there and I started interning, and I was just like, you know, I'm gonna bust my behind to get recognized and show everyone here that I'm a hard worker what I could do. And they're like, but how old are you? And I started lying saying that I was eighteen, because to get the internship you had to be eighteen. So I was like, oh,

I'm eighteen, but I was only sixty years old. And I got the internship and the rest was kind of history. I started on the radio with Ludicrous and then from there I transitioned to radio in l A. And then I became an MTV VJ and then a producer, actor, host, entrepreneur, all of those things. But definitely it started in a radio and that's my first love. And I know that my career, you know, took off because of my love of music, and it took me to all these different

amazing places. So okay, so but we gotta pause though, because I mean, you just ran through like seventeen careers, you know what I'm saying. Like other people are like, yes, I want to be on the radio, and then they maybe they get there, maybe they get there. And then they stay there, you know. But you were like, Yes, I'm gonna be on the radio and I'm gonna be a VJ, and I'm gonna be an act person, I'm

gonna be an entrepreneur. I mean, my god, Okay, so let's let's let's start from the transition from being on the radio to being a VJ. How did that happen and why did you want to do it and why do you think you succeeded at it? Well, for one, you know, starting on the radio was an amazing platform, but then people would always say kind of what you said. You know, when you get on the radio, a lot of people just stay on the radio, like just be happy. This is how it starts and ends for you. You're

on the radio, Like that's it. You can't She didn't want anything more. You're on the radio. And I kept thinking, well why not? And I was like, after radio, what feels like the natural next step? And I was like, well, TV to me, feels like the next step after radio. So when MTV um I was on the radio in l A. And I became really recognized. People knew my voice and knew who I was. So MTV called one day They actually called the receptionist at the radio station.

I remember walking into work. I was at that time now like eighteen years old in Los Angeles, and they said, Hey, somebody from MTV call looking for you, and it was like a sticky note with like a number on it. I'm on TV. So I called and they were like, we just want you to come in. We've heard a lot about you, we just want to meet you. I was like okay, So I came in and then they saw me and they were like, oh, you should be

on TV, Like have you ever thought about that? And I was like yeah, I've been wanting to do it. And then they went I went through an audition kind of process where I had to interview people and show them that I could be good on camera. But I already had a lot of the lessons from radio, because even though you don't see someone's face a lot of times, in radio, it's the same concept. You're interviewing people, you're

being personable. So I brought all of that to my audition and then they said, hey, do you want to move back to New York where I'm from and start hosting one of our MTV shows? And I was like absolutely, and then I moved to New York and started doing that, and then ultimately during MTV, I was switched over to become one of the premier host of TRL, which at that time was the biggest the biggest show on television.

Still is like, when I go back and think of the MTV days, I'm just like, I'm in awe of it, because when you're in a job, you're just kind of doing a job and trying to be great at it. But it does sometimes it takes you stepping out to look back and go we were making history, like thousands of kids in Times Square every day, everything that was going on, and to be at the center of that.

And I also find it funny when people say, you know, I grew up watching you on MTV and and it's a compliment, but at the same time, I'm like, guys, when I was on MTV, I was twenty years old, Like you're saying it, like like, okay, you were, and I was twenty Like yeah, we grew up watching me, but we were the same age. So it's just kind of funny. But MTV was such a great experience and I made so many relationships there and it was so

great for me. And then as MTV started changing over the years and becoming like less about music videos and t R, I was coming to and and I was like, Okay, now it's time to make the next transition and what would that be? That would be acting, producing, more hosting, And so I went back to l A and really focused on pursuing my acting career, going to acting classes, working with an acting coach, really just taking it super seriously.

It was always there, but like really laser focused in on it, going on auditions, and then I started booking like small, small stuff. In my first big I would say, people know me from like really young I was and you Got Served and two can Play the Game and all these these movies when I was young. But my real kind of big break was when I became part of the Think Like a Man franchise and I wasn't think like a man wanted to And after that is where I finally saw like, wow, I could really have

a career, you know, in this thing. And that's how it happened. Feel like I rambling this is history. Okay history, It's like everybody paying attention. This is history because the truth of the matter is you were at the center of a lot of things that started trends that we still see today. You know, when you think about tr row and everything that was modeled after TRL, because before

it's year around, I think I've been done like that before. No, no, you know, so then you started modeling what that looked like? And are you serious? Yes? I watched you on t RL okay, And the most amazing thing to me is that, of course people are gonna say, you know, they grew up watching you, but that is such an incredible accolade to be a somewhat mentor fall away mentor and aspiration

to people who are your same age. It's definitely cool. Yeah, because they're not looking at somebody who's like far far ahead of them. They're looking at you, and they're like they're putting themselves in your shoes and saying, well, she can do it, I can do it. You know. That's an incredible It was incredible, credible journey. And I don't

take it lightly. MTV was an amazing place. I learned so much there, but even at the MTV level, like I found some of the same challenges where and I say this to my entrepreneurs and people in business and just people that are trying to get it like it was the same kind of thing. Okay, you're on MTV. Now this is all you're gonna do. You're only gonna be an MTVVJ. And after MTV, nobody hears from you anymore.

Nobody knows what happens to people after MTV, which a lot of my MTV hosts have went on to do amazing things, but at that time they would tell you like, just capitalized, maximized, because this is gonna be short lived. They'll be they'll this is it, They'll be on to the next one. And I the entire time I was thinking, like this being put in a box mentality. I don't like this, Like how can I continue to prove that

I'm not going to be put in a box? So I was always like plotting my next move so that I wouldn't be put in this box. And now I'm out the box in so many ways. And I just want that to be an inspiration to people who are stuck in jobs where they feel like, is this it is, It's just gonna be it for the rest you know,

of my life. Come on, Because the truth, that is the absolute truth, which is that when other people have put you in a box, or you're in a situation in which you can't see yourself your way out because it looks like that's the only opportunity. Maybe you achieve the thing that you dreamt of achieving, But now what's next? What happens? Can you please just give us a little bit of that, Like what makes you so bold? What was it that made you feel like you could move

to the next thing? Well, one thing about me, since I was a child, I never wanted to ever depend on anyone and never wanted to be in a situation where I was depending on someone. So I always wanted to find ways to get it myself, to be independent and not feel like I had to rely on someone. And as women speaking to my women out there, so many of us are feel like we have to be dependent or without another person, we can't get out of certain situations or we can't succeed. And I'm here to

tell you that that's that's absolutely not true. You have everything you need inside of you. And I kept telling myself, you can do this, you can do this. I had to be my own cheerleader because along the way of any journey, so many people are going to tell you why it's not gonna work, you know, just be happy you where you're at. You you started from nothing, you have a little something. You should be good. Why are you even trying to get anything else? Like you're doing

too much. You know, you're always gonna hear that. So I had to believe, you know, and myself and push myself. And it all came from a place of not wanting to be dependent, dependent on anyone, wanting to be independent and be able to provide for myself and my family. And that that just kind of pushed me. And I always said, you know, whenever something to me starts feeling like a job, then I know it's time to go.

Whenever it starts feeling like a job and you're regretting going, I mean we all have bad days when when you're regretting going there every day, or you're just in this like hamster wheel of like the same thing every single day, and when that starts wearing on your spirit, that's when I'm like, you know what, it's time to go. And I know you also are a person who doesn't get put in a box, and that's something I admire about you.

Like once you make a certain move, we think we got you figured out that you make it another move like you you do what you need to do, but it's all moves to just continue, you know, finding your passion and your your purpose and it's like, Okay, I checked that box off, I did what I had to do there. Now I'm going to this next thing. And I have a very similar personality in that sense. Do you feel like you still have to prove yourself? Do you? Do you feel like you still have to do that one?

More than people with people would ever know. Especially I find the most in my acting because as many years as in spenses I haven't been on MTV, there's still a large group of people where I'm oh, that's a la la from MTV. Sometimes it's hard to shake that from MTV, and I'm proud of it. I'm not ashamed of it. I don't want to shake it, but I want to come in and be seen as myself and the character like, oh, she's just a VJ that wants

to act, and there's a stigma around that. So I always feel like when it comes to my acting, I have to work extra hard to prove that I can do it. But then getting on the series like Power for six seasons and the all the success Power had and being a main character on there had really molded me and started finally seeing it. And then after Power, getting a call from lead Away, who I love and the Shy. Yeah, and she's like, she's like coming audition.

I want to see what you could do. I watched Power, I liked it, but I want to see if you can handle this and to work really hard with my acting coach and grind it out and have to go prove myself. I mean, even at this stage, nobody's just giving you handouts because you're a friend or you're a cool person. You still have to earn it. And I always say, you know, we asked for these opportunities, but you have to be ready when you're presented with the opportunities, like,

oh I want to get this, I want to get that. Okay, so when that moment comes, then what because a lot of times these opportunities are only gonna come one time and you have to be be prepared. Um, you know. So I was prepared for the opportunity. And now I'm on The Shy season three, which has been amazing, but still working constantly on the phone or zooming or in class with my acting like it's a never ending process. You don't get to a point and just like Okay,

I made it and I stopped stop working. It doesn't work like that. It's it's constant. It's constant work these gems right here, Okay, because seriously, the whole thought, you know, you and I have talked about this around the constant having to prove yourself even you have the damn receipts, okay, to prove that you've already done it, that you can do it, you can do it better than rest um.

Having to constantly prove yourself can be really frustrating. Can you talk a little bit about where you find the inspiration to keep doing it? Like why are you not mad? Like? Why are you not mad about having to prove yourself? You and I have talked so much about the fact that like, oh well, why why is the incoming not coming the way that it should be? Right? Why don't you have to keep going out ask for the opportunities?

Why are you not mad about that? Well? Well, one, I'm not mad because I'm so grateful to where I am in my life, Like my mom was born in the Marcy projects. That's been Brooklyn like the life I live now and the opportunities I've been presented and just things I've done are beyond my wildest dreams. So if it was all to stop today, I've done more than I could have ever dreamed of. I've been able to provide for my family and provide for myself and my son,

and I'm so honored for that. So there's nothing to be mad about. I'm I'm happy that I've been blessed with these opportunities, and getting mad it's not gonna get me to the next level. It never had. What's gonna get me to the next level is preparation and being ready. So when the call comes, I'm ready for it and also to be able. I don't do it for other people, but there is still something great when so many people tell you you can't do something and then you do it.

You don't even have to say anything, you just you just know what it is, and they know what it is. When they see that deadline announcement or something. It's like, oh, yeah, I remember when you said, but only you and I know that when that happened. But it's all good, Like it's so satisfaction. Now, I don't care if people say it's not it's so satisfaction. Yeah, So I don't do

it for them. I do it for me. But I'm so so humble and grateful and I'm I'm super believing all my blessings coming from God, and I have so much faith that being mad. No, I don't know how how how I would explain that. I think I would be too scared that God would be like, what's going on over there? And I don't want to play. I don't want to play those games. I'm like, Wenlay, you can playing with God exactly. Attitude of gratitude exactly. Grad No,

but that's so real. That is so real because I find that, um, even for myself, like yes, having to remind myself that even when people doubt you as they do, or when they ask you for the receipts and you're like, which one because I have a hundred thousand receipts, I'm not for sure which one you want to see right now? UM, to remember that this, this moment is so much greater than any that myself or that anyone I know has achieved.

I know, it's it's it's wild, it's wild. My mom my mom is so supportive, but even on the radio, she was like, I mean, is that like a real job or people like the people going? Is it like? I was like, myn it is. And then when I got the l A job, I had never been to l A before. I mean, I didn't live a life where I was traveling in l A in places like that. So when I got off the plane as a teenager to take the job in l A, that's my first time ever in l A. I was there by myself.

My mom took the first flight with me, and I just got dropped off in a place didn't know anyone, by myself. But it's a testament to just being determined and really wanting it. And for me, I wanted to provide a better life for myself and my family and still do so that's kind of what just keeps me going. When we come back La La and I get into some quarantine realness that's in just a moment, whether you were event needed one room or an entire conference under

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of double shifts and your dog didn't recognize you. He hates me? Hates me? Do you want to treat? You want to treat? You knew it was time for something new, Let's drop it up at career builder. You can find jobs with the work life balance and salary you want, plus build a resume and apply to multiple jobs in just one click. Start your search at career builder dot com. The moment you realized you were mistaking your kids for co workers? Okay, team, I'm What was the moment you

knew it was time to get back to work? Let's job it up at career Builder. Are simple, customizable search tool let you search for part time, full time, and even work from home jobs so you can find a job that fits your lifestyle. Get started now at career builder dot com. You're listening to Back to Bis with Katie and Bows. Katie is finishing her book, and so I'm flying solo on this podcast with my friend and entertainment renaissance woman La La Anthony. Let's get back to it.

First of all, I can't even believe we've been We've been in lockdown for how long has it been? Like it's four months for who would have ever thought ever in a million years, and we're not even done yet. That's we're not even done. And the problem is people are loosening it up, and it's just it's it's and I get it, like I understand it's so hard to

be contained for that long. You just want to get out, but we just still have to continue to be safe and practice social distancing and wearing masks because we want to get this thing under control once and for all. So when we're out, we could really be out instead of like these little spurts of like okay, I'm out of out and then you get shut down completely against because so many states are going now back into phase one. So you know, we want to get past that and

move forward. Yes, So let's talk about also personally, like what that has been like for you, um, you know, beyond being grounded, you know, like having to just sit down in one place, which has just been very odd for me, and I'm sure it's been odd for you because we're constantly moving and most of the time when I text you, my first thing is where are you at? Girl? Because because I don't know where you are and we don't write, but we don't know where we are, so

that's always the first question. But I think also just personally speaking, you know, having to sort of change literally where I am, you know, and being in the situation of, um, having to take care of my daughter in a way that I probably haven't before, which you know, has its own lessons right right the school stuff, and I think just even just being present all the time, which changes a relationship. How has that been like for you, like personally in your life? Like, how how has that been

for for you? As La La the mom, the woman in being in quarantine? Um, you know, the mom part was tough because I always say, you know, we talk about how this is affecting us, and a lot of times as parents, we don't check in with our kids and we don't realize that look at the change it is for them. So it's like, no, do your work, get in front of this computer, it's like this is

all new for them. So I really tried to be as patient as I could with my son because I knew it was a new world for him, this online class and stuff. I love the fact that we've spent so much time together, only have one child, you know, like you and we really just had our bonds always

been incredible, but it's even you know, tighter now. And just to really get into his mind and what he likes, and to be able to watch documentaries and read books together, to watch and play Fortnite some nights, you know whatever whatever we were doing that damn Fortnite on dropping crazy but yea Fortnite. But you know, just to be a part of his world was incredible for me. You know, I found myself you know, reading a lot more. I

found myself doing a lot more self reflection. I found myself really getting in touch with where I was at mentally and personally, because when you are as busy as we both are, you just go, go, go, go go, and sometimes you don't even know how you're feeling because you just go go go. You lot you feel to that I'm good, yeah, all right later, everything's good, like you're just going but you never really sit down and

just stop and get in tune with yourself. So I was able to do that and and learn so many things about myself. And then from a work perspective, I mean, although things are shut down, I haven't done. If I if I never do an another live zoom that I'll be good. It's every day. It's like zoom zoomzoom, live, live live. I loved it at first. I was all about this zoom. Now I'm like a right, one more zoom, one more live, one more this um. That's been that's

been the funny part. But I also think we're connecting with people in a way we never would. People have more time now. I've sold a lot of shows through my production company because people are listening more, they're more patient, they're sitting down there really hearing you out where you didn't see a lot of that before. It was just this go go go world. So that part's been really nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's that's for sure. I mean, listen, I didn't do

my first live until like this moment. But I've never I've never done never. I think I did one or something. I don't know. Maybe I did one. Maybe I'm lying. Maybe I did one, but not enough for me to remember, you know. And of course it's like I think I remember when it it started to pick up and I would see the live across my you know, the top of your Instagram and seeing so many and I was like, what the hell is going on? Everybody was good, Yeah, yeah,

you're still doing it. You're in so you're right. I think at first was very exciting, and now I'm just like, okay, girl, now I know all the tricks. It's like, oh, you gotta comes on, because you know that's gonna be the first that's gonna be the first shot. I know all the tricks. I know all the tricks on my zoom. I got a great background background photo and everything. I had figured out how to change the backgrounds depending on what I'm talking to. Damn about that one. Yeah, I

gotta see what I'm saying. I should have I should have had that going because I'm not I'm not in my usual location, and so this is all when you're not in your usual location either. So we're all we're all like we're doing okay. So now on top of COVID, now we got to deal with racial unrest, which is nothing new to us because obviously we've dealt with it

all whole lives. Um. Which, by the way, I think perhaps even in your career and in you know, the ways in which you've been able to tell your own story, I'm sure has underlying messages in that too. You know that you face your own bias and challenges, especially within the entertainment industry. Um. But speaking of our kids, like, how have you talked to Kayene about all that is happening? What has been his response? How are you dealing with it?

You know what I mean? Because I think it's different when you are experiencing yourself then when you have to explain it to your kid. That's a that's a very very very different situation, very different happened with you. The good thing with Kayane is this is a conversation we've been having with him. Obviously, now in the current climate of everything, it's been magnified. But we have a thirteen year old black son and we live in New York City. My son walks around with the hoodie. My son walks

around New York. He plays basketball, he's in gyms, he's on the courts outside. So we tell him like this, at any moment could be you. You have to understand what's going on and you can't be oh, that's not me, or you're in a video game. Are you dribbling a basketball and you're not even aware of what's going on behind you. So we made him watch certain things and watch certain news programs that we trusted and respected to give the right message and talk to him about dealing

with the police. We have some police in our families and had really candid conversations about what that's like and what's the right protocol when you get stopped and pulled over, And it's really unfortunate that these are the conversations we have to have with our kids. But it's the reality of where it's at, where you literally have to run drills with your kid, like, Okay, if I'm a cop, what do you do now? What do you say? Where

do you put your hands? And my son is thirteen years old and he's big for thirteen, like he doesn't look like a little kid. So it's um, it's important and it's sad, but also to see the way we've come together is inspiring, and you know, our voices are so powerful and for me personally, when I'm hearing about all this stuff, I go right into like, all right, what can I do? I'm not doing enough. I gotta be doing something. I got I gotta figure it out.

So I've just had the pleasure and honor to get to know, you know, Brianna Taylor's mom, to be on on Zooms with Ahmad Aubrey's mom, Eric Carner's mom, and talk to these moms and just talk about, you know, what I could do personally to help amplify their voices and calls to actions and what's needed. And Alicia Keys has been so amazing in calling me and making sure I'm looped into the zooms and the calls and different

calls to action. So from that standpoint, I feel inspired and I feel like I'm using my platform for the right thing. But you always feel like you should be doing more. What what more can I do? And you know, it's tricky because you know, if you talk about what you're doing, then it's like, why are you talking about it not just doing it? If you don't talk about a thing, you're not doing anything. So it's like, you know,

you gotta find that happy medium. But it's not as much about that as it is about just using your platform and really making a difference. And I feel like I've I've really been doing that, so I feel good about that. We're going to take a quick break, but we'll have more with La La in just a moment. Still living in and manually taking notes. Start the new year with auto dot ai to generate automatic notes for meetings, interviews,

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X dot com. You're listening to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows and I'm talking to my friend La La Anthony and we're about to dive into this black Lives Matter moment because just this month July, la las thirteen year old son Kayane is on the cover of Slam magazine with his dad and be all star Carmelo Anthony father son, silhouetted in black, both wearing hoodies, staring straight into the camera, and it is path We're full, Okay, So let's pick back up with La La right now.

I mean, I'll tell you, like the hot tears that poured down my face when I saw the cover the Slam, I could listen. I can't even really talk about it. I want to ask you the question, but I could barely. I could barely get it out because oh man, with them, like seeing them and in their hoodies. Yeah, girl, I see. I can't even It's like it's like it's it's too much. I can't even look at you because it's it's too much. Um.

Because I was just so struck, so struck by it. Um. It was so powerful, and it was such a reminder because I, you know, I I obviously have a daughter, um and although I have the conversations with her as well, because we know black women are not immune from the disasters that we see out here. Um, but seeing him, you know, that's my little nephew. I wait a minute.

They were talking about, you know, like he has to be on this cover, he has to think about this, you know, his dad like has to talk to him about these things like, oh my god. And then you as your as his mom, you know, with both of them, because like, who wants to think about the dad and the son leaving the house. Nobody, nobody wants to think about that, you know what I mean? And feeling fear

over that. So how how do you manage that, like even as yourself, like for for both of them, Like, what did you even think when you saw the cover? Did you see the cover before the cover at the house? So I was there while it was being shot, and I just wanted to make sure Cayenne recognize how powerful that was and what it really meant. It wasn't just all on the cover of SLAM. Let me go tell all my friends, I'm on the cover of SLAM, and

I'm representing Black Lives Matter. I'm representing kids who have been killed senselessly to to gun violence and police brutality that look just like me, that walk, just how I walked, that talk just like I talked. I wanted him to understand how powerful that was. And that whole entire issue, which is out now, just deals with you know, sports stories involving racism, sports stories that have been ignored because they've involved injustices or you know, police brutality, just stories

that we needed to hear. And Mello was the guest editor of that issue, which I was super proud of that and that's so iconic. I Mean, my hope is that one day Cayen has his own kids and can look back on that cover and say, hey, look when I was on the cover of you know, Slam magazine. It's it's incredible, but it was for a greater purpose, which is to continue to amplify voices and the message

and make sure people aren't forgotten about. Like we said, some of the hashtags might be dying down, some of the protests might be dying down, but there's still so much work to do. And you don't stop just because hashtag isn't trending any war, right right, right, right. And that's the thing is that because you know, hashtags don't live forever, um, but we know that the pain of

mothers do live forever for mothers who have lost their children. UM. And like you said, you've been in contact with Brianna Taylor's mother and a Mod Aubrey's mother and working with Alicia Keys on so many of these communication platforms and using your own platform to do it. I mean, I think most of us right are so struck by these stories. And we see their faces and we see the press conferences, and it's it's just so terrible. You feel it in your spirit and your gut. You feel ill, you know,

having to think about what they've lost. But what is it that you've learned from from these mothers, these women um that you've had, you know, the privilege of being in touch with unfortunately for such a sad and terrible evil moment in time. Well, I learned that you know, there's nothing in this world that can match a mother's love, and you know that is just such a powerful thing. And I learned what being strong really means. I mean, we all have problems and issues and it's like, oh,

why me or why am I going through this? You have to look at what these women are going through that bury their children too, police brutality to gun violence to injustice, and how they're still able to hold their head high and say, I'm gonna do this for my son. I'm gonna do this for my daughter. I'm gonna get justice for my son. I'm gonna get laws change. I'm

not gonna fight or rest until it happens. I mean, it's so powerful and it just makes you feel like you gotta you gotta be right there with them, you gotta do whatever it takes to get whatever they need done done, and you just want to take care of them. So I learned what strength really is and learn what power really is. And I learned also how much we can do when we band together and help each other, whether it's as women, or whether it's as black people,

whether it's as a community. Like, our power is so strong, and a lot of times we don't recognize that. Our power when it comes to our spending dollar, our power when it comes to fashion, our power when it comes to anything is so strong. But a lot of times we've been made to believe that, you know, just be quiet, I don't say too much to stamulate, don't ruffle any feathers. And now people are like, no, we're ruffling feathers, and

we're calling people out, you know, for their bullshit. We were bringing people to the table, and it's been amazing to see because it's been a learning experience for everybody, Like we all need to learn something during this time and continue to educate ourselves and our and our children. Yes, yes, yes, yes, And you know what I think that's the that's the most amazing thing to me, is of course about the future, you know, and what what we're learning about, not just

you know, the frustration of the past. Because even as I think about racial unrest, I'm like, listen, I remember when Rodney King, you know, was beaten and attacked and the riots that happened then in l A and all the other incidents since that have been publicly known. Obviously there's so many that are not publicly known. Um, but also not losing the sense of optimism, you know, because we do want a better world for our children, and

we see a better future even for ourselves. Like I don't even just push it on our kids, like I want to see a better future from me, Like I need this change that happens then later, because its been long enough. It's been long enough, okay, Because like I was saying, like even for yourself, Like you know, you've you've been in this business, in this entertainment and media business a long time, and we know what that is

like and what racism looks like in that industry. What gives you hope you know, for the future, even for yourself, like short term you know, are mean definitely when I see just our children are young people using their voices. When I see us banning together and looking at the protests and can yet everyone focused on this change and just how powerful we are when we come together, that gives me hope, That makes me confident for the future

and us finally recognizing and realizing our power. We don't have to stay quiet. We're not gonna be forced to stay quiet. We're not gonna stay quiet anymore. And watching what happens when we actually do speak up and say you know what, no, I'm not gonna take this anymore. This is wrong. And just seeing the power in numbers is an amazing, beautiful thing. So that gives me hope for our future. And seeing you know, the younger generation just doing their part to say, you know, we're not

we're not going to stand for this anymore. We want to grow up in a different world. That's what definitely gives me hope. Yeah, yeah, And I mean because you're a storyteller, you know, someone who has used her own voice, like we were saying, since you were a kid, really right, um, and have evolved your voice through the years and obviously producing even what is there your thought about storytelling for

the future. You know, even that you continue to explore your own storytelling of course, so to me, you know, I want storytelling to be about what we want our people to consume. Let's tell our stories, Let's talk about what we go through that only we're gonna be able to understand. Let's talk about the things that matter to us, which is why I love you know, even a show like The Shy dealing with growing up in Chicago and

everything that's happened on The Shy. Now, we shot The Shy before all of this stuff kind of just hit the way it did, and it's like Lena wrote the shot yesterday just looking at everything's going on, because this has been going on, it didn't just start. So it shows that reflect what's happening out there and people can

watch and go, that's me. I went through that. I can understand that shows for Black women that show us being powerful, being bosses, you know, being independent, you know, being great moms, workers, wives, lovers, whatever it is, shows that you know uplift us and show us in a different light. That's what I want to be a part of that type of story storytelling, like stories that matter

to us. And I want to be able to look at shows, whether it's The Shy, Power Insecure, I mean so many and say, you know that's me, that looks like me, that that's a representation of who I am. There's there's nothing, there's no greater feeling than that. Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm so, I really am. I'm so proud of you, I really am. With all of the elation and your characters. Um, you have played some very iconic characters. Thank you, Thank you and all the memes that have been created over

and everybody else. You know what I'm saying, like they're going in that's that, that's what is that? What is funny? Listen? That got us all? Okay, Yeah, I know. I think I might have texted you that day as well. I was like, I think I did. I think I think you can give me a heads up like that. I think you did. You did, I think you did. I think you did. I think you did. I think you did.

But like fifty always told me, if you got to go out, you want to go out, remember ball, you want to go out where people are talking about it, which I did. Because the show ended, it could have just been like, oh, well, you know what happened to Lukisha, But now it was a moment and I used that momentum to take me into, you know, my next thing with the Shy and to go from working with Courtney Kemp, who was a mentor and one of my closest friends

are just an amazing human being and writer. And then to leave that and go rock with Lena and the crew over there. I mean, I'm blessed. Man. I'm just so so grateful for attitude of gratitude, that gratitude because listen, you keep evolving and that I feel like it's a great message in this moment, you know, of especially all of this chaos and feeling and quite lost in sort of a drift because we don't know when things are

gonna end. We don't know what to do. Some people are waiting for things to get back to normal, you know, before moving on or getting back to what they always did. But perhaps it's like using the time to reinvent. Yeah, it is. I mean, that's that's a great thing. Reinvent yourself in business, reinvent yourself in your your personal life. Just reinvent how you feel about yourself. Constantly do mental health checks on yourself. And like I say, it's okay

to not have it all together all the time. Everybody is struggling during this time. It's hard for all of us. And if you feel yourself getting to that point or unraveling, not being afraid to call a friend or call someone for some help, because this is a lot for everybody. You're not meant to have it all together every single day, twenty four hours a day. You're gonna have your ups and downs and you have to be okay with that. It don't be so hard on yourself. Yeah, no, that's true.

How are you keeping your your mental health? Like? What are you doing for I think selfcare is such a buzzword, and that's not really what I'm asking, but it's it's like, how are you keeping yourself feeling good and motivated? And you know, I have, Uh, I have people that I go to when I'm feeling down. I talked to Sometimes it's me saying a prayer, sometimes reading a book. Sometimes it's meditation, um, whatever. It is, like you have to

find what that thing is. Talking to a therapist, which is something that you know has been super helpful and you know for a long time, especially with us, it's like therapy, Like what is therapy? Like I remember my mom saying, you know, people would say, you know, only crazy people go to therapy. I'm like, well, the crazy people seem to have got it figured out because we should have been going to therapy and it's so helpful and you can't be ashamed of it. So whatever you

have to do. But you know, it's just about constantly checking in with yourself and understanding that you're not supposed to have it all together all the time. They're gonna be good days, it's gonna be the bad days. That's part of living, that's part of the process. But just recognizing on those bad days what's causing it to be a bad day, and how do you get yourself, you know,

out of that. Yes, yes, yes, yes, Well if there's one thing that I learned from you, girl, that regardless of the situation, be it personal, professional, whatever, you find a way to rise up out of it. And I thank you, like I said it, seeingly proud of you, um and very very grateful for your time. Thank you, Thank you had a great shot. I can't wait till this is over so I can actually hug you, because this social I don't like this. I want to give you a hug. I want to hug like hell, I

just want to see how you guys are doing. But I love you and I'm so proud of everything you're doing. And you know, we talk all the time, so we'll talk to exactly. I'll call you later. All right. I could keep talking to La La forever. But that's it for this week's episode of Back to Bis with Katie and Bows. I hope you all enjoyed it. I had a ton of fun. So if you're not already, make sure you subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcast, the I Heart Radio app, or wherever you listen to your

favorite shows. And if you want more about the podcast, including our favorite moments from these interviews, you can find and follow Katie and me on Instagram. And while you're there, why don't you send Katie some good book writing vibes? Okay, center all the vibes, because I'm sure as he'll miss her. Come back, Katie, come back, come back. Okay, all right, chall thank you so much. Bye. Back to Biz with Katie and Bows is a production of I Heart Radio

and Katie Kurrik Media. The executive producers are Katie Currik, bosmas St John, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. The associate producers are Derek Clements, Eliza Costas, and Emily Pinto. Editing by Derrek Clements and Lauren Hansen. Mixing by Derrek Clements. Special thanks to Adriana Fasio. For more information about today's episode, go to Katie Kirk dot com. You can also follow Katie Kurrik and bozmas st John

on Twitter and Instagram. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. All my name is shire Line, back of of the San Francisco forty Niners. COVID hit so many different people, from the very top to the very bottom. There's nobody not being affected by COVID in some way, shape or form, and so I

think that that brought a lot of people together. I've teamed up with cal Hope to let Californians know about the resources and support available to all of you that may be dealing with mental health issues. Go to cal Hope dot org to chat with a live person or call their warmline at one eight three three three one seven Hope. That's eight three three three one seven h O p.