All Hail the Jeanaissance!

been working subtly for more than four decades. After starting out as a stage actress in New York, she got her first big TV role as Charlene Fraser still Field on the nineteen eighties sitcom Designing Women. Stand Out performances followed, and shows like twenty four look like a wedding cake. Fraser, get off. You're asking a pen, Samantha, who will play that game? Where do you get guess what? People would guess what you're thinking about? Saying any words? You mean charades?

I said, no words and Fargo. The point is, don't assume just because I'm an old woman to my back is weak and my stomach is not strong. But it was her recent one to punch as washed up Las Vegas comedian Debra Vance on the HBO Max series Hacks Coming and as Kate Winslet's mother Helen Fahey and mayor of East Town that has finally awakened the world to the genius that is Gene. I don't know how to say. Oh wait, it just came to me. That was stupid.

I recently got the chance to talk to her about her long career, what it feels like to experience a resurgence of attention at seventy, the sudden loss of her husband of more than thirty years, fellow actor Richard Gilliland, and the coming second season of Hacks, which, by the way, I loved. Hi, Gene, how are you. I'm good, I'm good. You are doing the proverbial junket when you talk to

what scores of annoying interviewers like me. I feel so bad because I've been subjected to the round robin of a junket myself, and you start wanting to make up stories, and you just you're so bored with yourself by the right. No, it's it's everybody's been so nice and the thing has been really gratifying. Is that so far everybody who has seen some episodes of season two, they got its sneak peek. Have have just loved it because you know, season two,

you you want to have something to prove. Well, that's I was going to ask you about that. It's sort of like you don't want to be a one hit wonder, you know, or that novelist who's got the number one on the New York Times bestseller list and is paralyzed when it comes to writing a second How much pressure was it for you all going into the season two after season one was so well received. Oh it um, Chris.

Most of the pressure was on the writers. But no, you definitely feel like people are going to be gunning for you, you know, to say, oh yeah, try and make me laugh. But uh, when I started reading the scripts for season two, I just thought, Wow, they've they've They've done it again. It's just was wonderful. Why do you think the characters in this show are so fun to write for? Yeah? No, I mean I you know,

Jen and Paul and Achia. I have been living with this idea of this character, this woman Deborah for seven years, thank god, and made seven years ago, because I would not have been at the top of the list probably, So I'm grateful that they've just percolated on it for a long time. But they when they said when they pitched the show to to HBO, they basically told them

like five years of the story. I haven't even asked them where they see this this going, but they I love the little, tiny, weird details about characters that put in, the little idiosyncratic things, And especially in season two, they've really fleshed out all the ensemble, all the supporting characters who have more to do, And it's so much fun to watch them because they're all a little demented, even my housekeeper they are, but they're all so funny, and

there's something so real about them, right, because they're so multidimensional. I think, each and every one of them. You see them being funny, you see them being sad, you see there, you know their regrets and longing. You see them try to find themselves still after all these years, right, And I think as a result of that richness, so many people relate to it. When you first got the script, did you just eat it up, Jean, did you just say I have got to have this role? Absolutely? Absolutely?

Eye and Tech I was so I was. I've never said this before, but I walked into the room with the producers and I said, um, because my agent called me and sent me the script. Is said they they want you to do the script. And I just couldn't believe how great it was. And I working around and said, you're right, I'm absolutely perfect for this. Um, you should hire me. Um. But no, it's it ticked off every box. I mean, if I could have described what I hoped

my next project would be, it just had everything. It just had everything. What when you say everything, I mean it had it had It had the humor, it had the intelligence, that had the pathos, that had offbeat fun stuff. I mean, it had Vegas, had sequence, a leopard print and mean it was like and Martinis. I mean, how could I say Now? It has that weird mother daughter dynamic, which to me is also so fun and actually at times painful to watch because you know, they're just so

different and they really have it. They really have a difficult time connecting, and and that's why I think there's also kind of another mother daughter relationship that's part of the show. Right. Yeah, No, I absolutely think you were absolutely right. And you know, Caitlin Olsen is so amazing as DJ and when you find out that DJ actually stands for Deborah Jr. It's like, oh no, she actually mannered kind of like George Foreman, right exactly. Yeah, I mean,

Caitlin is so amazing, she says. I know, she says, it's like I'm a sixteen year old trap in a

fourty year old body. But but it's sad too, because you know, as a parent, I'm sure you know, you feel like you never get it right, you do too much, or you do too little, or you you know, and and Deborah feels like I just wanted you to be with me, and her daughter sees it as you dragged me all these horrible places with horrible people and when I was a kid, and you know, And I think it's particularly complicated when you have a mom which I can relate to in the public eye in terms of

a daughter, you know, when I have two daughters establishing their own identity. I'm wondering if, if if this resonated with Eugene Um in terms of your own kids. No, absolutely, I think I think I think it must be. I mean, I have no idea, but it must be very hard to have a kind of a famous parent. Um. I remember when my oldest was young. If I would be out in public and people would ask for an autograph or something, I would if I was with him, I would try to just really nicely say I'm so sorry.

I hope you don't mind if I say no, I'm just I'm just mom today. You know, I'm just mom right now. And people are always very nice about it. And this happened several times, and finally my my son looked at me and he said, no, Mom, it's okay, it's okay, you can sign it. It just means they really like you, you know. So that was really sweet. And then my my my youngest, he didn't like it when he never wanted to watch me in anything. I think it made it seemed creepy do him to see

his mother pretending to be somebody else. I'm looking kind of different, and he didn't like it if I'd come home with all the hair and the makeup and everything. He he just wanted me to just just be mom. So they don't seem any worse for the wear. In terms of you being in a hype, you know, in high profile jobs, or having a mom who was on TV or in movies, well, I don't know, I'm sure. I just try to tell myself that if they have any issues, it's not because of me, and it's between

them and their therapists exactly. More with the very smart Gene smart. After this break, well, let's talk about sort of the whole ensemble cast. I think obviously Hannah e'inbinder is is a revelation. She really is wonderful in the role and provides such a great contrast to to Deborah's character. Tell me a little bit about working with Hannah and where she came from, because she just seems to have

exploded onto the scene. Gene. Yes, I know. Apparently our producers were fans of her comedy because Paul Downs is also a stand up comic who plays my manager Jimmy so brilliantly. Um, but so they had her on the list of girls to audition. I guess a lot of actresses read and then they brought me in to do what they call, you know, a chemistry read for the

last handful of young women. And uh so I watched some of Anna's stand up on online and I just was taken with how she seemed so confident on stage and she but she was very kind of quirky, and I've never seen anybody do a routine quite like what she was doing. And I just thought she was amazing because she took her time and everything was very small, and it was just I just thought she was hilarious.

And uh, I actually called her the night before our audition, just to introduce myself, and I think I called two of the girls. I didn't call all of them. Feel bad, but I just wanted to put them at ease a little bit, you know, because that's always weird to be in that position. And plus we had to meet. It

was like something out of a spy movie. We met in this huge, dark, dark, empty sound stage with one light bulb on a stand like you're gonna be interrogated and tortured, right, you know, and two straight backed chairs about sounds very off off Broadway. Yes, through plexiglass, you know, because of COVID. Yes, it was insane. So I'm glad that we had chit chat on the phone a little bit.

But but she was great. She was great, and she was definitely my my first choice, and I was glad they at least let me have some input, and luckily they agreed with me. And after we've been working together about two weeks. She was she was still she was stealing awe of me back then, but that's completely gone. She came up to me and she said, I just really wanted to thank you because you know, I heard that you really went to bat for me with the producers,

and I said I did. I said you were absolutely my first choice. I said, in fact, I told them that if they didn't hire you, I was gonna do the show. And she said really, I said, no, I'm nice, but not that nice. I hesitated for just a second before I say, said, should I say this is just too mean? No, she's a comedian, she can take it. And I remember we ran into each other at the

Vanity Fair Oscar dinner, which was kind of interesting. But um, I remember you telling me about her background and her mom. Can you share with everybody? Sort of because when I heard that, I was like, are you kidding me? Yes, speaking of kids growing up with famous parents, her mom is Lorraine Newman from SNL fame, fabulous comedian, and uh so it was kind of in her blood. And she started doing stand up in college and she's been doing it ever since. And she her boyfriend is also a

successful stand up comic. He's got a show in New York right now. It's been they keep renewing it and renewing it and renewing it. And he's very funny, very nice, very nice guy. And it must be nice for Eugene as somebody who's who's been around for a while to see to see this, this kind of a breakthrough role for this young woman. It must be really exciting to watch.

And wait, oh, it is absolutely. I mean, I'm so happy for her, and I won't insist on my five percent, but you know, but no, and it's she said, it's really you know, changed things for her, you know, and and uh, she said she thinks it's made her a better comic. And but you know what, it's true. It's true about singers too. To be a really good stand up comic, And I also think to be a really good singer, you have to really be an actor, you know,

you to act your material. So I don't I don't think it's you know, surprising that you know, she's as good as she is. She's just so she's just so natural. Um, I can't believe it's really her first role. Meanwhile, I mean, you're amazing in it gene and it's so you know, for me, somebody who's watched you my whole life and cheered you on in all the iterations that you've been in, um,

it's just been. It was. It was so exciting for me as a fan, and I'm sure for you as the the lucky recipient of these roles to have this incredible year. You know, I I don't want to bore you with the genisance and all that jazz, and you know, the New Yorker writing Jeane Smart never went anywhere, which is true. But having said that, it was a pretty great year for you because you had Hacks, which was awesome and continues obviously in season two to be awesome.

But you had Mayor of Easttown. And I know that you have said the fact that these two shows came on simultaneously almost is one of the reasons that people really stood up and took notice of your performances because it was such a study in contrast, I mean to say the least, Yeah, no, And I meant that because you know, there are so many brilliant actors out there who never get the credit for for what they do.

And I was very fortunate that I too, amazing roles that were so incredibly different into beautifully written projects, high profile like back to back, and so people had a

chance to sort of compare, you know, and look. But you know, it's true, most actors, even even the three of the Actors Union that actually makes a living at acting, even among those lucky people, there's very few of them to whoever really get the chance to do to show what they can really do, because unlike any other art form, you kind of have to wait for someone to invite you to do what you do and to give you the opportunity. And unlike being a writer or a painter

or a dancer, I mean you can. You can do all those things on your own. Whether or not you're gonna pay it, that's another matter, but you can at least do them. You can practice them, you can express yourself. Yes, you can't really do that as an actor. I suppose. Yes, you can put together a one woman show or something, but it's um you have to be invited to do

what you want to do. And I think it's interesting when you were when you're called versatile, I never thought of this because basically you said, well, that's what I'm that's what I do right, I mean is right? Um, But having said that, it must have been fun for you to play two such different characters. Um, mayor's mom who was a total pisser. I guess that's what they might say in Delco right. And then you obviously are playing depravants who's completely I mean talk about a completely

different kind of woman. How I mean, did you ever get them confused? Or how was that sho? Now? They were just again so so well defined and and in both cases, I was working with such amazing group of actors, um, amazing actors, and I think in both shows, I mean, what a gift that must be. And you know, I interviewed Kate Winslett for mayor of East Town and I did her first television interview when she was to annec

yes or maybe wait no sorry? I think it was sense and sensibility and she was so lovely because they had that predated Titanic and um, you all must have gotten on famously. I hope that's a yes we did. She has invited us to London. I hope we get to go. Um. She's such a doll. She she she called me the other day because she found out about the Star on the Walk of Fame and and she was doing her alter ego. His name is Hortensio. No

one told me about just start the Boston's. I just said she something marvelous And when did that happen your star last week? And and what was that? Like? I was nervous for some reason. I was really really nervous. I don't know what what that was. I don't usually get nervous. But um, but it was very nice. My

friend Joe Montana spoke, and Hannah spoke. She was hilarious. Um. She started she started saying things like, you know, Jean, you know, I just I love you so much and I'm so happy for you, and you know, and every day being with you has been, you know, such a joy. I wake up in the morning and I I look in your eyes and then she says, wait a second, because I'm sorry. I lost I lost my place. I lost my and I thought she really had lost her

place and she said, what what, oh God, I'm sorry. Um, and she holds up this folder with her She was I switched to folders and she holds up this folder, says wedding vows it's ridiculous. But Linda Bloodworth Thomas and who wrote Designing Women, was actually going to speak, but unfortunately she got COVID. She was just heartsick about it, and so show very nicely wrote this beautiful speech that I could not have paid someone to write. Um that

Linda had written. Uh, really nice. More with Gene Gene the Comedy Machine right after this, Well, of course I have to ask you a couple of questions about Designing Women, Geen. And you know, again, that was a very formative show for me, just at the same time Murphy Brown was, and it was one of the first shows that really showed the lives of working women. And I mean, what are your most vivid memories and why do you think

that show was such a hit. I think it was a combination of Linda's really unusual writing, because unlike any other sitcom i'd ever same. She would give us page long speeches, um, which just doesn't heard of in a sitcom, and sometimes she'd rewrite the right before the audience came in and be like, oh God. And uh, we said, you know, she's lucky. She's got four actresses who were like word processors. We just choped to turn it out.

But um, it was the first time you've seen just basically just women, with the exception of our Garling Misha Taylor, just women and working women, um, single women, uh, and also Southern women. Southern characters were usually depicted in a very one or two dimensional way. Um, so that was fun. Although at the first table read for the studio and all the suits, uh, everybody was happy. Everybody loved it.

And then we were talking to Linda and Harry and they said, but they don't want you guys to do Southern accents, but they love the show, right, that was what I said. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't say that, you know. And I was the only Yankee in the bunch, you know, I was the only one. And I thought, you can't just take away the accent. It's not the same person. An accent is part of a person, every part of them. And did you say

and it's it's it's in Atlanta, folks, thank you. They were afraid that people would not understand what we were saying. Damn. So anyway, we kind of soft and they were trying to be more careful the first towards the bed, but then they finally just kind of never said anything else, and we just didn't pull out. I was like, oh my god, I can't imagine what the show would have been like if we all sounded like we came from

you know, Chicago or something. Well. One of the reasons I love Designing Women is not only were you all quote unquote steel Magnolia's, but it was quite political. And of course Linda, long time friend of the Clinton's um, had a lot of very strong feminist messaging in that show. So beneath sort of the pretty exterior, Uh, they were very strong, very tough, and quite political, especially I think Dixie Carter's character. It was it was. It was really

Dixie and Annie's characters. Because Delta and Delta's characters Susanna and me Charlene, we were rather woefully unenlightened, but you provided I think feminism or anything like that. Yeah, it wouldn't have been it wouldn't have been real if we'd all been on the same page. But it was funny because, uh, we were all Democrats except for Dixie, and Dixie was

the one who had the long, limberal rants. And she'd say, okay, Linda, she says, but for every one of these I get to sing a song, so she bartered with them, you know. And and Dixie was the loveliest person. I still miss her dearly. I know, I was so so sad she um she she died when she was just seventy of endomitrial cancer. And um, of course married to the legend. Oh my god, how I mean we got married Richard?

I got married in their rose garden. That must have been beautiful looking white colonial Where was their rose garden in bell Air? And um? Also, uh, my sister. I think Dixie died I think in March or April of two thousand ten. And my sister had died at the age of sixty one in January, so it was. And then my best friend died in August. Awful, terrible year, terrible. How did your sister die? Should brain cancer, glib bust, dolma. That is a very tough my sister. Also, I have

two sisters. My oldest sister died of pancreatic cancer. And uh, it's just it's just, you know, excruciating to say the least. Well, since we're on that subject, you know, you and I are both widows. I lost my husband when I was forty one to colorectal cancer. And you lost Richard very recently, um, and and and very suddenly you had met on the set of Designing Women. He was in the show. Memory of the show, I'm sure, I'm sure it must have been something to fall in love with your you know,

your fellow cast member. But um, tell me a little bit about him, because I looked him up, you know, and preparing for this interview, of course I recognized him and he had such a nice space. He looked like such a kind, decent, low key person. Tell me, tell me a little bit about him. Well, I don't know if he was low key, but he was very kind and he was he was hilarious. I don't know, Maybe I think of low key just sort of um maybe that's the wrong word. But he looked he looked easy

to be with, Is that right. Characters were like that, Yes, but he he was I was. He was fast paced kind of person. You know. It's like I said, your dad, my kids, I said, your dad does everything fast with me. Thinks faster, talks faster, he sleeps faster, breaks faster. But yeah, no, I mean, what a sweet man. And you know, we we were never apart after the day we met on the set. He you know, I I don't know. I remember I saw him and I just thought, wow, who's that?

I love last lines around his eyes and his hands and I don't know, he just had the greatest he was talking to me, the greatest smile on his face. And we were in this building on this on the Warner Brothers lot, and we're a few shows would do their table reads and things, and I thought, oh, I wonder if he's gonna be on our show. And lo and behold, there he was sitting across the table from me.

And it was episode five. We hadn't even gone on the air yet, we hadn't even aired the show ever yet, and it was episode five and he was playing He came on to play Annie's boyfriend, and UM, I just I don't know, I've never been so aggressive. I mean, you know, I invited him into my trailer to help me with the crossroom puzzle, and um, and we started talking on the phone every night. You know, we lived

like fifteen minutes apart. We talked on the phone for two hours every night, and he invited me to see this play he was doing, and and we were never apart from that day and how many years were you all married? Thirty four years. Well, you had an incredible life together, but it's it's never long enough. And he was he was very young, and our young he was only seventy one, and our youngest was only twelve, which is really hard, you know, especially for boys to lose

their dad's um. And how are the boys doing. They're they're doing in a way, they did better, They were doing better than me. But I think that it's um, my youngest especially keeps things inside kind of you know. Yeah, it comes, you know how it is, you know exactly what it is. It comes in waves, you know, um, and there will be one you think you're doing fine, and then they'll you'll you'll see something or hear something or read something and it just kind of washes over

you again. You know. Um, it still seems unreal. Sometimes it's been just over a year. I can't believe. It feels like it's been maybe a few months. Yeah, I haven't been able to go out to his office and do anything with this stuff. Well, it took me a long time to do that, and uh, it does give me some comfort obviously. You know, you had quite a

love affair. The two of you, and and I wrote about this in my book Gene, and it sounds sort of probably cheesy, but but when I was so upset when my mom died, you know, so upset when you know, my husband died, and my sister and my dad, I was obviously incredibly close to all of them. But my minister said, you know, those who who love deeply grieve deeply, and it turned it from sadness to to gratitude in

a weird way. You know, it's true that you actually had the opportunity to grieve a relationship like that, right and to have that kind of love. I read that you had to do that funeral scene shortly after Richard died, which must have been very surreal. Um, it was that that one. I was scared. I remember, I'll be perfectly honest. I Um, I took a little pill because I was starting to hyperventilate, and I thought I wasn't gonna make it through the day. But it turned out to be

a great scene and a fun scene. And you know, but yeah, they gave me a choice. I could either come back to work and just knock all the last five days out, or I could take a couple of weeks off and then do it, or I could spread it out over a couple of weeks that we were so kind, and I said, no, I just I want to. I want to. I was still in shocks, so in a way it was easier, so I just no, no, no no, I just want to. I don't get it down and get back to my kids in my my house and

excuse me. So that's that's what I did. It probably was helpful ultimately. Well, I'm just I'm just I'm so sorry for your loss, Gene, and uh, and I thought about you a lot when I heard the news, and um, but I'm also so so happy about your success and um, it's just such a thrill to see you kicking ass. And I also think it's great for women of a certain age, you know, I'm about your age to see you know, to see us represented and to see us

have these big meatia roles that convey a person in full. No. Absolutely, I I'm eternally grateful. It's still amazed some days that the roles I've been getting, especially the last you know, five or six years. Um. Actually I had no idea it would work out that way. You can see Jean right now and Hack season two on HBO Max. Next Question with Katie Kurik is a production of I Heart Media and Katie Currik Media. The executive producers Army, Katie Curic,

and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements and Adriana Fasio. The show is edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go to Katie Currek dot com. You can also find me at Katie Curic on Instagram and all my social

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