¶ Intro / Opening
My mother once said to me Kev direction is far more important than speed , because there are a lot of people going nowhere fast and , looking back , I think I fell into that trap on more than one occasion . I think there's a lot of people out there right now who are manufacturing progress instead of actually making it .
I always think that trajectory matters more than current results , and I've said this before , I'll say it again your future is eventually going to be the present , so I think you have to design it in advance and make sure that you're really making meaningful progress in the real world .
Welcome to Next Level University . I'm your host , kevin Palmieri , and .
I'm your co-host , Alan Lazarus .
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Next Level University , next Level Nation . Today , for episode number 2089 , coming up on 2100 , the illusion of progress . And how it's hurting you , how you doing buddy , good , good it's been a lot it has been a long day and I'm tired as shit how many many hours you been up , my friend . This is my . I'm on my .
I got up at 6 am Eastern , 7.38 pm , so we're running on 13 hours and 40 minutes with a 67 sleep score Not optimal and I also tend to thrive in these situations , so it's really not that big of a deal all things considered .
Okay , we were talking before we decided on this episode and we were talking about how oftentimes we have encountered people who I'm going to coin the phrase are productively procrastinating , and what I mean by that is they're procrastinating the big goal by trying to get the illusion of making progress through like very , very small ancillary goals but that never really
lead up to
¶ The Illusion of Progress
the actual goal . Is that a fair statement ? You would say yeah .
One good example of this is someone who is deeply fearful of launching a podcast , and I've been there , and so they are getting the name and the logo right . They're setting up the mailer mailing list first . The website got it , when in reality it's okay . You're fearful , you're fearful of judgment or you're fearful of being on camera .
I remember the first time I started my YouTube channel , way back I almost I have an unlisted video that I should put in the show notes for everybody . It's atrociously bad , it's my very first I will put it yeah , I'll put a . I'm pretty sure I still have it on my YouTube , my personal one .
I'll put a link in the show notes to my very first ever speaking in front of a camera YouTube video . I look like a small prepubescent child trying to talk about what's called real life superheroes , which is people who lean into their uniqueness and help others . So I thought the concept was really cool and the opening was fire .
I remember the opening Flying . Yeah , I remember that .
Flying through the air baby , the star rising in the sky Very metaphorical and I was really bad , not strong , not a strong speaker , but I do think it's important to see where I started , because I was so scared to post that . Understandable , because it was fucking hot garbage , but that's . If I didn't post that , would I be where I am today ?
And the answer is no , okay , how do we .
If you're seeing somebody do that , I don't think this is something . I do a ton . I've definitely had this in the past , but for me it's like I want to feel like I'm actually making meaningful progress . So I don't necessarily want to putz around with stuff that I don't want to feel like I'm making progress . I want to actually make progress .
I don't want to feel like I am , I need to actually do it , okay wait , wait .
Why ? Because I do agree , we've joked in the past . Kevin is the best in the game at getting something new started . The dude cannot scale a fucking thing . Yeah , I set the fire and walk away . You're no .
No , well , hold up , you'll keep putting wood on that thing oh yeah , keep putting wood on that thing every day , you'll you'll walk out , you'll put a little wood on and then you'll leave , but the fire will never get bigger . Yeah , it'll stay the fucking exact same for years , actually forever , forever great at starting it
¶ Starting fast Vs. Building to last
.
The eternal flame yeah great , same size .
Yeah , same size yeah , can't scale it can't scale it . But I would say this is a superpower for you . We always joke like you'll have a book done before me . I have 20 blogs , 20 chapters . I just I know that it's going to happen , just like business growth university . You started podcast growth university . You started podcast growth university first .
You tend to go into battle . You get things started really fast and you keep them going really well . You don't do a great job at scaling them but I think that , that makes sense .
I hear . So here's why because I essentially won't start something until I know I can finish it , and I know that might seem like it's a detriment , I don't know . It's worked for me when . So I was writing a book about podcasting . We're going to have a podcast book . It was like , cool , I'm going to do it .
And then Alan's like all right , so you probably write like in between calls and stuff . I said no , I need , I need a day blocked every week . It like in between calls and stuff . I said , no , I need , I need a day blocked every week . It's the only way I'll do it . That's the way . That is just the way I'm wired .
I need I need to know that I have an entire block to do it and if you give me 15 of those blocks , I will write that entire thing and then we're onto the next thing . I'm not doing it at all now Zero .
None , I'm not writing at all and I will not write again . I'm interesting in that too , and I hope our listeners are taking which one you are more . For me . I blogged every day for I think more than a year . I was doing my big five to thrive .
I don't know if it was a year , I genuinely don't remember the number , but I did my big five to thrive and one of them was right for 20 minutes and some nights I was nodding off at 11 o'clock with my laptop in bed . It was terrible idea , but I got 20 blogs done . We have a next level blog .
The link will be in the show notes and they're really good . I again I wouldn't say that lightly . These are valuable frameworks that I spent fucking hours on and it's I was gonna eventually create it into a book . I need to do something daily and get a streak going .
You need to just knock it out of the park with a full day and you and I have learned how to lean into our sort of superpower with that I had a client reach out so I've been doing some video editing on stuff .
That's like quick turnaround , just because we have a lot going on and we have a lot of amazing clients , which I'm unbelievably grateful for and the team is amazing . But sometimes somebody will message me and say , hey , can you do this , like today ? Yeah , some days , some days I can . Somebody messaged me and said , hey , we have like a fairly big ask .
We need a bunch of clips from all these videos . You got to find them and download them . And here's the transcript . And I was like , yeah , I can do that , I download them . And here's a transcript . And I was like , yeah , I can do that . And they said can you have it done by the end of the week ? And I was like I'll have it to you tomorrow .
Yeah , of course I can . It's Monday , I'll have it to you Tuesday . I hammered it out , but I had the entire day to just do stuff like that . Did we get paid for that ?
Yes , Okay , nice .
We got paid and I don't know , I don't know , I don't know why , but for me I don't . I think I can make and again I'm not saying this is accurate , this could be delusional . I think I could make more progress in an eight hour span than you're going to make in two months of 20 minutes .
Yes and no . Yes In the short term progress sense , but not in the incremental improvement that fuck that noise I'm talking about .
Let me get it done , baby yeah , and then I'll do it again .
If your goal is to be better at writing , then my way is more optimal . That's fair . And if you're going to be a writer and author forever , my way is more optimal . If you just want to knock out a book , your way is better .
I tend to like to knock things out and then I'll learn a lot , and maybe that's not the process moving forward , but I . That's why . Honestly , I think there was a piece of me that liked when we used to record , like we used to try to record seven episodes on Monday . I just like to hammer them all out .
Let me just sit down and suffer for eight hours and get all these done and then cool , I'm good for a week , don't have to worry about it until next monday .
Yeah , but that's not good , for we have a formula at next level university called prep . Yeah , it's not prep . Rep reflect perfect yeah prepare for the episode .
¶ Why consistency beats intensity
Do the rep fitness term rep . Do the episode reflect . Watch the episode , listen to it and then perfect , get better , go back to the drawing . What was good , what wasn't most important , win , most important , improvement . So you can't . I used to say this in my speeches , my fitness speeches . I said this at next level live too .
If we all went into a room tomorrow , a gym , together , and we worked out for nine hours straight , that would not actually change your physiques , your physiques would not transform . We would all be cooked and we would get something out of it for sure .
However , if all of us took those same nine hours , I don't know why the fuck I chose nine , right , dumb pick 10 , it's easier . Or eight anyways . If we took that same nine hours , I don't know why the fuck I chose nine , right , dumb , pick 10 . It's easier , or eight .
Anyways , if we took that same nine hours and we broke it into half hour increments and we exercise for 18 days straight , nine times two is 18 , right ? Nine times two is 18 . You could build a new habit that could change your whole life , and that was kind of I don't know why I chose nine , why not ?
just choose 10 . You choose weird . I remember you were like yeah , if you scroll on your phone for 50 minutes a day , you do that . That's that's 36 16 hour days . If you're , it's like well , I think it should be eight hour days , because most people work eight hour shifts and we're different on numbers . Hold on .
Yeah , it was five times a day for five minutes yes 25 minutes a day . Yep sorry , you can crunch the numbers on this . If you go on Facebook or Instagram or TikTok for five minutes , five times a day , that's 25 minutes a day . That adds up over time . If you crunch the math , 25 times 365 divided by 60 , that's the number of hours .
Divide that by 16 hour days because you sleep eight unless you're kevin , I'm kidding that is actually a full 10 days straight . Imagine if you had a friend for 10 days straight was just scrolling . That's what we're all doing every single week . We just don't even know every single day .
We just don't like the eight hours . Imagine you . Imagine you go to work and you do your eight hour shift and you come back and your roommate is just finishing up their daily scrolling . They do that for 20 days straight . All right , ready .
Yeah , five times five 25
.
Yeah .
Times 365 . 9,125 . Stay with me . 9,125 minutes , correct , yeah . Divide it by 60 . 152 hours a year , yeah 152 hours . So if you go on Facebook five times a day for five minutes , you are investing 152 hours per year . If I divide that by eight hour shifts , that's 19 eight hour shifts .
So that's essentially four . That's like a month .
Divide that , divide that by five . Five day weeks , that's four weeks of pay yeah , yeah . So that's a , that's a month , that's four weeks every year of a full-time jobs pay that you're just spending mindlessly . It's wild , it is . And that's five times a day for five minutes . The average is way worse than that , for sure . Okay , sorry , can I real quick ?
Social media is fucking us up as a species . Oh , for sure , I've been studying evolutionary psychology a lot . The tech Is so far beyond what our minds are ready to handle . So if anyone Is out there , I'm not villainizing social media . Social media allows us to reach people all over the world .
I'm grateful and be very careful , seriously , what you allow into your brain . Okay , go ahead .
No , social media is weird , so there's a whole freaking thing .
Something popped up today . I was like oh my god , can you not Some girl talking in her car half naked ? What the fuck are we doing ? I was on one of my past clients' posts about a fitness streak and all of a sudden this and it was like are you fucking kidding ?
me the algorithm , the algorithm . That's what kevin has to say . I mean it . That's end of conversation . That's what people are looking at dude , I couldn't even believe it .
I was like is this even a real person ?
you dump that . You dump that shirt off . You and I dumped our shirts off . We do this podcast shirtless , topless . You know , whatever Algorithm's going to push a little bit more . That's a fact . Yeah , maybe you know , as we get leaner more and more , right now probably wouldn't be optimal results , more for you than me , maybe .
I don't know , I'm sitting down , all right . How does somebody know whether or not they're actually making progress or they have convinced themselves they're making progress through creating an illusion of progress ? I'm going to ask you a lot of questions .
I appreciate it . I didn't hear you and here's why I'm sorry Real quick . Do you remember when we were on stage ?
Wait , you didn't hear me because you were thinking of something else .
Yeah , two things came up for me . One the Living Legends shirt right there . Yeah , shout out to Marky . Marky , I don't know if you listen anymore . An old listener . Yeah , dude , I still have that shirt Comfiest shirt in the game . That's why I'm wearing it right now , so comfortable . Yeah , it's very Okay . What was the second thing ?
Do you remember when we were on stage at next level live this two years ago or three years ago , and you had one of the best pauses ? Can you tell the story ?
I honestly I remember what I said . I don't remember the exact delivery of it .
It was something along the lines of okay , I'm going to ask Alan to do something , or I'm going to say something a little weird and weird and it was okay , real quick , take off your shirt , or something like that dude , the whole place started dying .
I think you actually very rarely do you get embarrassed . I think you were a little in the in the moment because I held it and just looked at you take off your shirt well , you know what else it is too is .
I don't know if I was in reasonable shape then , but I think part part of that was the shining thing .
Yeah , that's fair , because that was in 2022 .
I think I was in reasonable shape back then .
You and I have been in reasonable shape since 2019 . It's been six years .
That's not true . I saw us in a photo . Facebook memories have been coming up Six years . There's one where you and I are sitting down . I was like , okay , okay .
Decent , yeah , decent , decent , I'm going to ask the question again . I need you to listen this time . Are you ready ? Okay , how does somebody know whether or not they're , whether they're making meaningful progress or they are creating the illusion of progress , to to uh coat their ego .
¶ Real progress feels uncomfortable
One of them makes you feel like you want to throw up after . One of them is very like no , exposed , you feel exposed , you're vulnerable , you feel emotionally , you feel exposed and vulnerable and it takes a lot of courage to do it . And then the vulnerability after is is everything okay , am I going to be okay ?
And then you wake up the next day and you go okay , and you do it again . And then you do it again and you do it again . We were on movie club last night Evolve Movie Club , If anyone wants , in dm me . It's fucking awesome . Essentially , it's just movies that move you and get you thinking . Do you watch the movie or do you just talk about the ? movie .
Everyone watches the movie individually and then we come and immediately has a presentation , okay yeah , and there's quite . Everyone comes with questions . It's kind of like book club , but with movies it's basically what it was born off of . It's interesting she started a movie club , I started a book club . She loved books , I loved movies .
It is strange but it's awesome . She comes to book club . I go to movie club Interesting
¶ Next Level Dreamliner: The planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy:
Hello , hello , hello . Nlu listener . Thank you , as always , for listening to Next Level University . Real quick , I just want to jump in and let you know about the Next Level Dreamliner . This is a journal that I use every single day . Achieve your dreams 90 days at a time . It breaks down your dreams into goals , milestones and daily habits .
We hope you enjoy it . The link will be in the show notes . We did Mufasa , which I think is actually the better of the two , which is really saying something , because I love the first one . In Movie Club , Emilia posed a question , popped it up on the screen what does it feel like when you are ? What does it mean to be brave ?
What does it mean to be brave ? I think the ego progress is yeah , I'm doing it , I'm getting this done . When you write a book , it's not writing . That's the hard part . It's fucking posting it . For me , anyways , For me , For some people it's actually writing . They think they're not a good writer or whatever .
If I were to write a book and share my whole past , that would be really hard for me to share , Not hard to write . I can write about my childhood and how hard that was , Sharing it .
Fuck that I'm gonna but it's the sharing it that I find more difficult . What about you ? For me , it's the writing it . Share the shit out of it .
We're good . See , that makes sense . It's success versus failure , it's competence versus social courage .
I won't write the book first . I'll write something much smaller and then I'll put that out there and then I have the first . So I've released I don't know how many raps like one-minute raps , longer raps on social media . The first one I released , I was terrified .
I was like , oh my God , I am the fucking kid from my high school who thinks he's gonna be a rapper and everybody's gonna say that . Everybody's gonna think I'm the kid from the high school who thinks he's gonna be
¶ Fear, ego, and taking the first step
a rapper and never is . 100 , 100 that is what people probably thought 100 , and then I started posting more and I got love and nobody not once has anybody ever hated on it . Not once makes no sense , not a single time . And if you , if you watch one of my raps and you hate on it , you send me a beat and you and I can battle it out .
Bar for bar Son .
I have a client who said well , honestly , in a weird way , I've never really failed at anything . I was like listen , that means you have not fucking shot high enough . Are you kidding me ? And the truth is now she's failing because she's really swinging for the fences .
I did take a big L because we had Justin Freeman on . This is talk about a naive , just unaware , dumb ass thing to do . Justin Freeman , world class rapper like just a world class rapper . I still listen to him to this day . Nice , we had him on the podcast . I was feeling it .
I sent him a message , something along the lines of like yeah , maybe one day we can hop on the podcast . I was feeling it . I sent him a message , something along the lines like yeah , maybe one day we can hop on a track together . No , nope , he doesn't want to hop on a track with you .
He's a professional rapper professional , that's what he does like in the world and he's wrapped with some very kev kev . What are we doing ?
no good for you for swinging your shot .
I can't even look back at it . It's so fucking embarrassing . Oh my God , it hurts me to my core to even think about it .
That's what happens when you get a little strut in your step .
Ah , too much , Too much strut in my step . Okay question Do you think procrastination can ever be a good thing ?
Yeah , if it's dumb shit what about if it's good ?
if it's not dumb shit , then no , of course not .
I disagree , and here's why whoa oh , hold on , it can be a good thing if it's not the most important use of your time ?
yeah no , those are all that's .
I still disagree I'm not saying you're wrong .
I'm not saying you're wrong .
I'm not saying you're wrong do you want to jump on a track yes , please , and then we'll , we can do a rap battle I don't know if you heard my reading of eminem's verses .
I'm you're close yeah , legit , I could be in trouble . Apparently I can't read or rap . Saturday I had something that had to be done by monday . I just kept putting it off . Putting it off putting it off because it was like , yeah , I don't want to do it . I really want to do that right now and there is no measurable downside to me .
So maybe , to your point , it wasn't the best use of my time . There's no , it doesn't matter if it's done wednesday or thursday or friday , it matters that it's done monday . There's no point in me doing it seven days ahead of time .
Well , we don't have a ton of time , but in the productivity realm there's urgent , important and significant , and I think this ties in well to what would you call it productive procrastination .
Productive , yeah , productive procrastination . I'm going to coin that .
Nice . It's also called productive avoidance .
So it exists already ? Huh Shit , Somebody beat me to it .
It's when you're and everybody does this when you're avoiding something , you tend to do everything around it . You ever just start cleaning your house , never . Brother , quite literally never have I accidentally cleaned the house ? Well , you do other stuff instead of clean . Is that fair ?
No .
Everyone avoids certain things . Everyone I've ever coached avoids that .
So Sundays , when Tara and I agree that we're going to clean , I literally start cleaning before she even gets up , because I need to get it done immediately . If I am supposed to do something that is time-based , I do it immediately . If I don't have to have it done by a specific time , I push it off until that time is there .
That's the way , almost essentially , I operate . I don't know if that's good or bad .
You are so lucky we've created structure for you , holy shit .
Yeah for sure , but I operate really well with the right amount of necessity . What is the point of me doing it seven days ahead of schedule when I have time blocked off on Saturday and I'd rather go in knowing that's what I'm going to do .
This goes back to the goal of the goal , which is , if your goal is to maximize your potential or reach your potential , everything would have to shift with that . But urgent , important , significant , urgent means it's got a deadline , it has to be done now . Important means so what's a good example of that ?
Something that's urgent . I have another question after this .
Okay , right now we have to go in a minute and 15 seconds , so this is urgent . This episode is dropping what Two days from now . So that this is urgent . This episode is dropping what two days from now . Two days from now , yeah , okay . So this is urgent because you and I don't have any slots .
I don't have any slots tomorrow to do this within my window and I don't want to mess that up because otherwise I'm going to burn to the ground . Okay , so this is urgent . It's also important . This is one of the most valuable uses of our time . So important .
The podcast is important as hell , one of the most important things we do , if not the most important , and it's urgent because I don't have any slots tomorrow . It's also
¶ Urgent Vs. Important Vs. Significant
significant . Significant means it pays dividends forever . I think about this all the time , and I don't know if you do , but I love the fact that we're impacting people all over the world while we sleep . Oh yeah , a oh yeah 100 . I think about that all the time . I'm gonna walk with emilia and I'll turn to her and I'll go .
Isn't it interesting how we're helping people ? Right now on the conscious couples podcast , there's someone listening to our podcast and and getting value from us right now , while we're on this walk . This is the coolest shit ever . It is very strange , yeah , and they comment you see an email come through .
It's like , fuck , yeah , we just on this walk , changed someone's life , potentially Like I . That means it's significant . It pays dividends forever . I wonder if other people and again we'll do an episode on productivity at some point . But urgent , important and significant .
If it's 10 out of 10 urgent , 10 out of 10 important and 10 out of 10 significant , which is this episode , it's getting fucking done . If it's not , it's very hard for me to prioritize it .
Same . So essentially the same thing . I just push that to the day before it's due and then it becomes 10 , 10 , 10 . Awesome , cool . Last question , but I have a question . Oh , okay , quick 20 second answer , maybe how I have realized that I push things off until I realize I can go full depth and full distance .
What does that ?
even mean Full depth , like oh man , okay , for one of our clients , I'm building landing pages . I do a lot of weird shit on the side , just FYI , that you're not totally aware of . I'm building landing pages . I also sell shrimp out of a van . I sell shrimp out of weird shit on the side , just FYI , that you're not totally aware of .
I'm building landing pages . I also sell shrimp out of a van I sell shrimp out of a van . I have email sequences going and they have funnels on their website that I'm building . It takes an hour to get into the flow of how to do this . This is not something you do for 15 minutes and then go back . You can't . There's no .
How do you know when you have the proper time for the depth ?
That's awareness , it's it's from experience . I mean , that happens all the time . Emilia and I have a rule . Well , I said this earlier . I said multiply it by 1.5 . I had to email someone , so we were we're supposed to leave the gym an hour and a half before my whoever has the earliest first meeting . I had a podcast and I .
We were in the car and we were 15 minutes behind and I said can you please email him on my phone and just say hey , I'm running 15 minutes behind because otherwise I'm going to basically not be able to shower . I still didn't , quite frankly , but I'm not going to be able to . I'm just going to have to rush . The workout's going to suck .
I'm going to end up blowing my knee out trying to get this done and there's just an . So my rule with emilia is double the amount of time . Everything costs more and takes more time than her and I predict , because we're so optimistic , I don't think that's probably true for you , it's the .
I think it's the opposite . I thought it was gonna take me all day . It's took me like two hours .
I literally was like this is going to be a haul . I was thinking it's going to take two hours and it would take all day . Yeah , you and I , you and I are very we make a very good team . Yeah , assuming that we make a good team , but only because we work through all our shit .
Yeah , yeah , yeah .
Like there were several times where Kevin and I would butt heads . That doesn't happen that much anymore . No , it's pretty weird .
Yeah , agreed , it's definitely a good thing .
It's almost like we worked out a lot of the kinks . I think eight years is a long time .
Yeah , we would either hate each other or not work together anymore if it was going to go in any direction other than more aligned right . What was your question ? Did you have a closing question ? I want to make sure we get you off here .
I know Alan has a certain bedtime he has to be in , he has to have his milk and his nighties on , so I'm going to get him there . I'm going to get my Living Legend shirt on .
No , I do actually have to go um , because I guess it's dinner with me . I can't cancel that again . No , it's date night with emilia . I'm excited . Okay , every night's fucking date night with emilia , which is the best . Okay , what was my question ? I have no fucking clue . Okay , cool , I honestly don't remember .
I think it was about how do you determine what is urgent , important and significant in your life I .
Everything has deadlines . It doesn't have a deadline . I'm not doing it . I asked the client today . I said what's the deadline ? They said there isn't one . Give me one . Give me one , just .
Make one up Just make one up , it doesn't even have to matter .
If you say , hey , can you get this to me end of day ? I will do my absolute best to get it to you end of day . Or say you can't or say I can't , usually I'll say yes and I'll figure it out . That's the goal always . If I absolutely know I can't , I'll say no , unfortunately we can't .
If you come to me and say like , yeah , whenever that's going to get pushed on my list until you literally message me and that works really really . That's worked really really well .
Well , luckily we have each other other man , because that's not how you scale I don't know how to scale .
We've determined that , you know .
We've determined that that is not necessarily not how you scale , but it is a superpower to get started . You are the best I've ever seen , and I don't say this lightly . When you get your mind set on starting something , you will jump right the fuck in . I'm obsessed and yeah , it's really .
It's really something I remember when you were hey , I want to make the studio . You could not do anything but make that studio . Yeah , it's the way I'm At the detriment of many other For sure .
I spent five hours trying to figure out how to buy a new car Like what's the ?
Yeah .
I couldn't get my mind off . It Couldn't do it . And then now it's done and I don't think about it at all . It's like , all right , cool , that's done , now it's , it's on to something else . So all right , cool , all right .
Next level nation if you are trying to make sure you do not procrastinate the things that should not be procrastinated , you want to make a real progress . Next level dreamliner it's on amazon literally five minutes a day . If you are like alan , you like to write a lot , maybe 10 , 10 minutes a day , but it's sustainable .
It's a great place to start and it's a great place to live . You can do it every day and you can literally track it as one of your habits . We'll have the link in the show notes .
If you do not know what is most urgent , most important and most significant in order to reach your goals and dreams , I can help you reverse engineer the math of that . Reach out Everyone , every listener . I said this in Business Growth University as well . Every listener gets one free 30-minute session with me coaching to help you achieve your goals and dreams .
If you've never done a free session with me , book it . It's free . The link will be in the show notes . Everybody gets one free session and I would love to meet you . Cool , all right ,
¶ Outro
cool .
As always , we love you , we appreciate you , grateful for each and every one of you and at NLU we don't have fans , we have family . We will talk to you all tomorrow Keep it Next Level Next . Level Nation . Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University . We love connecting with the Next Level family .
We mean it when we say family . If you ever need anything , please reach out to us directly . Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes .
Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow .