Preparing for your first Marathon: Makena Morley

I'm your host, Jacob Phillips, here to kick off this month's short form edition of our Instagram live running replays. As you know, this is when we replay our Instagram live events here on the Next Level Running Podcast. Today, Wilbonitez talks with Coach McKenna Morley about preparing for your first marathon.

Coach McKenna walks us through her preparation for her debut marathon, which was in Chicago this past fall, where she finished inside the top 10 and qualified for the U.S. Olympic Marathon Trials in 2024. I really enjoyed this conversation, and I think you will too.

But before we jump into the replay, I want to point you to our show notes and a few links that I think you'll find helpful. If you are following our Instagram page at Run Doyen, then I encourage you to do so.

You can find a link to our profile below, and following us there will allow you to get the notifications for when we're going live, and you can join us for those events as they're happening.

I'd also like to point you to our next level running Facebook group, where you can meet other passionate runners and join a growing community to get tips, ask questions, and be alerted to any updates we have for this podcast. Now let's jump into the conversation with Will Benitez and Coach McKenna Morley.

Um and what's funny is like we're partially kind of going backwards because we're gonna be talking about your first marathon. Um, but we'll hopefully help people in the future for their first marathon.

Um, and kind of anything like, let's see, now now I'm like five miles to to marathon now. Love all the road races. So those are great. Um and then coaching, I like to coach everybody. I think it's so fun. I love doing like if someone wants to do 5k 10k. Um, I I mean recently graduated from college, kind of now now I'm getting older.

So um, but um I feel like I still have a lot of love for those like shorter, faster things. But now that I'm kind of moving towards the marathon, I also have love learning that. So um, yeah, I love coaching everything.

I'm like, stay, please stay.

I am the nutritionist with Gondoin, and I have the awesome pleasure of pretty much handling these IG lives and conversations that we have with our coaches, and then they kind of get moved over to um to our Facebook page, and I think that they get moved over to the podcast as well.

So just really excited to kind of dive into all these uh various kind of running and coaching uh conversations with all of our awesome coaches here at Rondoyan, and and we truly do have a um an all-star kind of lineup uh of coaches. And and McKenna, you are um one of the recent ads, if I'm not mistaken, to that list.

So super excited to have you as part of the Rondoyan family. Um so today we are talking about uh preparing for your first marathon, and McKenna is here to chat with us and answer some questions. Um that I guess basically kind of, as I mentioned before, stemmed from your experience as a as a new marathoner.

Um I have questions about when that marathon was, et cetera. Um anyone here who's listening, if you have questions as we get going with this conversation or as we're kind of uh talking things out, just drop it in the comment. Hopefully I'll I'll catch it. McKenna, can you see the comments?

Otherwise, uh I'll be asking the questions. Great. Um, so yeah, McKenna, I'm curious to start this off. Uh, when and what was that first marathon?

And I don't know, I kind of was like, first marathon, go for it. Let's do one of the bigger ones. And that lines up good with with Montana training. And um, I'm good friends with Emma Bates, and she uh talked to me, she's done awesome at that one. So I kind of I felt like I could ask a lot of questions to um a lot of my friends about it.

So I was like, hey, that's a good one. I've got good resources, and it's a good time. So so I chose that one.

And I feel like I love that everybody can do them, and it's just and they're such a big event, and it just brings everybody together. So I've always loved that about even like local fun runs, but especially the marathon. Um, and yeah, I also kind of just like I was 26 the mirror that distance.

I was like, ah, I think I can do that, but I don't totally know. So it was like definitely a challenge because I had never run that far ever, even like a training run or anything, um, before. So I was just like, well, this is something very new, and I'm excited to give it a go. So yeah.

But I remember that I started to get going and 20 to 23 miles just felt like very normal towards the end. And I remember I was, I think I was like four weeks out, and I did I think 23 and a half or something, and I just was like, Wow, that's my longest one ever, and it just feels not weird to be doing that.

And that was like, Whoa, like how how is that happening? Because before I couldn't even imagine running that long, and then I was like, now this is just like oh yep, here we go on a Saturday, we're gonna go do this now.

So I think that was kind of the moment, like a month out where I was like, Well, okay, like your body does crazy stuff and it can it can handle this.

So is that something that um comes into like conversation with your athletes when you're like, look, it's scary at first or it's new at first, but here's an experience like clearly showing that the body adapts and it gets easier as these numbers get, you know, as you get more used to those numbers, kind of thing.

Like, do you find yourself like reassuring athletes in that way?

Um, you know, for the most part, every now and then it's like, ooh, that was too much. But yeah, so I feel like I do try to reassure them and be like, no, eventually we're gonna get there, you know. Not right now, it looks scary, but you'll be okay once we're at that point.

Like how far out? If that was even part of your plan, how far out was that?

But we decided to do one, and then I think we decided to do a 12, yeah, it was a 12-week block, which I really like because it was like three months, so it doesn't, it's not massively long, but it's also like long enough that you feel pretty fit.

Um, and I remember building up smileage towards it, but yeah, the first day of the marathon build was like July 10th, and I was like, here we go. Um but I was I was really excited. It was like an easy run, but I was like so stoked. I was like, Oh yeah, here it is.

Um they're like, I'm looking like trying to start up a plan, um, but I'm not sure. Uh it's like a whatever 16-week plan or something like that. I'm not sure how to approach it until like that's 16 weeks out from the race. And I was like, yeah, that's a that's a really good question. Like, how how do you what's your kind of recommendation there?

Like, do people just kind of stay like super low mileage and just kind of move their bodies and run, you know, casually up until like day one of that plan? Or um do you recommend they find a different kind of plan? Like what's your what's your what are your thoughts there?

And then from May until July 10th, I built back up and I think I was at like my normal mileage for like that I would normally run, you know, at without marathon training, um, for like three, three-ish weeks before that. And then I that whole time I was building up to that.

So I would say, yeah, just before that, just be, you know, I wouldn't come right off a break and jump into that, just probably personally, just because I don't want you, I wouldn't want people to get injured. Um, but yeah, running kind of normal mileage, what you would normally run, maybe a little bit less than that, but um kind of like normal.

And then when you jump into that marathon build, I usually take that first like three weeks to build from that normal mileage platform up to a little bit higher so that you can hold kind of a peak mileage for a little bit. So yeah, definitely definitely do some running a little bit before.

Like you clearly want to run now, like do it just like uh yeah, just like build that momentum really and just get used to like the even just the scheduling part, like just like get used to like all your routine, what it's gonna need to look like. I feel like that bodes really well for like jumping into formal marathon training.

Oh yeah, I mean or whatever that race looks like. Yeah, quote unquote.

But like what did you like do differently in your training that really stood out that was like maybe more marathon training specific? And then after that, maybe what were like one or two lessons or like looking back that you would do even more differently or something like that. Yeah, and my cat just be like, You can answer and I'm gonna let my cat out.

So it'll more be like this like four-month thing that I'm looking at or five months and we're not really like having a specific 12-week thing that we've like really planned out specifically. Um, so yeah, so that was new, just having that like very specific build.

And then um, yeah, long runs were longer, and then workouts were also quite a bit longer, um, which I guess all makes sense because we're just doing a little bit more mileage, and then we did a lot of like marathon specific pacework, which was interesting to me because it wasn't as hard as some of the workouts I would do more for like track 10K or even like

half marathon or slower races or shorter races. So um that was like really fun. So it was like the workouts were like double to triple the distance of something I would do for 5k or 10k, but slower. So it was just it was a total shift in what I had been kind of doing that spring. Um so really fun. I I loved it.

It was more like tempo work and all that stuff. So um yeah, it was nice to be out there. I was just outside a lot.

And then, oh yeah, you got my what was your second question?

Um, so sure, if you want to share, if you have anything, um, but but also um or or instead of um, yeah, to say what would you do differently that that you kind of realized, oh, I could have done more of that, or I could have incorporated that and maybe had a better, uh, a better experience, whatever that looks like.

So, yeah, any anything you want to kind of take there.

I did not practice the fueling, which I was talking to you about. Um yeah, I did not practice that definitely enough. I kind of was like, oh, like, you know, like I know it matters, but I just didn't quite understand like to the extent how much fueling um during training for marathon and during the actual race itself matters.

And so I um and I just never had any practice with that before. Like, you know, you don't really fuel a ton in like college 10Ks or 5Ks. And so I uh that was something I lacked. We did a little bit towards the end, but I think it was a little bit too late. Um, and I also don't think I narrowed down the fuel that I liked in time, basically.

So I think that I there was other stuff I could have tried, but I just didn't have time to, you know, be like, oh, I'll give this a go.

So I would say, yeah, biggest lesson for me and like for other people, but I always try to say is start practicing with that fueling early, even if it's not totally exactly what you would do with on race day, just so that you know what you like.

Um, just because I didn't really know what I like and I kind of was like, oh wing it, and that didn't turn out super great towards the end.

I think next cycle we might try to do a little bit more where I run a little bit harder towards the end of some of the long runs because I felt like I needed to learn my body needed to learn how to run harder on tired legs.

So my legs are like always tired, I guess, because the mileage and everything, but um we wanted to kind of learn how to do it towards like the end of a very long run. So we might kind of incorporate something like that next time. But yeah, fueling, big one.

Like running harder on like towards the end of those runs, those long workouts or long runs, um, as a way to kind of yeah, bring that into like that element, right, into your training, or what sometimes like kind of takes the place of that, which is like um not just doing like a recovery run the next day, for example, but you know, doing like a decent, not

hard effort, but a decent effort, because you know, you come off that workout or long run, legs are clearly tired the next day, good go and go and run. Like, do you do any of those kind of like back to backs, or maybe did you double at all on your on your workout days? I'm just curious about that approach.

Um, and so I would do that, but I am now gonna start probably adding in switching my double from like a Monday easy run double to like a Tuesday workout with a double after. Um, and so I think we did actually talk about that. We're like, that might be smart to do. And then yeah, with the double work, like the kind of back-to-back workouts, those type things.

We actually did do some of that, which I think is why my long run sometimes I went a little bit too a little too easy on them because I was always kind of tired. We do what I usually what I do is I do like a Friday larger workout because it ends up being kind of long, and then we'll kind of follow that right up with a Saturday long run.

And so, um, which I think was good.

So I think that did teach me to run long on tired legs, but I feel like I was sometimes going a little too easy on that long run, which sometimes you need that, but I think we needed to do a couple, maybe even just like three during the whole 12-week cycle of the long runs where I pushed a little bit, even though I was tired from the day before at the

end. So yeah, but we did do some of those, and I think that that kind of back to back harder stuff can be helpful and doubles, especially for like with people that I coach.

If you can't run as many miles, just you know, work schedules and everything like that, just doing even like some sort of walk or even like a run, easy double, um, or even a cycle or something is good. Just like get your legs moving when they don't really want to move. So, yeah.

Um, did you, and forgive me if you mention it, but did you include or do something different with regard to like strength training and or cross-training in your um 12-week block?

So I might start incorporating like one day of that into my next one, but I didn't do any of that for this last one. Um, which I do think could have been helpful just to like maybe even take the miles down like five miles a week, but add in like a cross-training session just to keep it so my body stays, you know, healthy and not injured.

So um but we yeah, we didn't do a ton of that for this one. And then sorry, what just gotcha, yeah.

Like there's just so much to learn, um, which is just really part of the game. Um, so overall, I'm curious before we move on to back to the hydration and fueling. Um uh I don't know if you'd call it a success, but overall, did you have a good experience um with regard to Chicago?

So not always fun during the time when you make the mistake, but afterwards you're like, oh, okay, like now I have, you know, I have some big steps I can make towards the next one. Um yeah, overall experience, amazing. Love marathon, very excited to try another one.

It's like, yeah, coming off of like 5K's, 10Ks, first, first half, first marathon. Um, there is more to fueling than than like you said, like you don't even really think about that as a 5k, 10k, right?

Like there's something, even just like building a confidence around that, um can be super helpful.

But then, which is I think another element to it, like what you said about um giving yourself enough time to almost like experiment with the different types of of fuel that's out there and like find something that you really like, you know, that you really like, that your body clearly really likes. Um I think really what it comes down to is like do that earlier.

Yes, yeah, 100%.

Like if you know you're gonna need fueling, um yeah, give yourself, you know, give yourself at least a few months to to just to just kind of like once you start up that that training block, I would say start to incorporate that into your long runs, start to be a little like intentional, strategic with your um your pre-workout fuel, like have that slowly and and

gradually, but definitely um start to kind of almost match what you're probably gonna be doing on race day. Oh yeah. Um and it that just takes time, you know. If you only have three weeks for that, there's not enough time to learn and pivot and try something different. So um that is by no means a critique to you, McKenna. It's really just a that is correct.

Yeah, I think we do agree on that. Um what about your hydration strategy? Did you notice, did you notice that that? I mean, in Chicago, it's fall, it's not, I don't think it was super hot, but did you notice or pay attention to that a little bit more in your marathon block?

Um and but yeah, so this one I I don't know, I just really pushed it off and I but yeah, the hydration I was trying to drink, you know, more electrolytes after doing long runs. Like when I was out, I was like, oh, I just did the 23 miles, like I gotta get in some good electrolytes, um, at least pretty good training, those type of things.

Um, and then yeah, I did try to make a big effort of, you know, for race to stay and for that three weeks because I did practice with the fuel. Um, I used like the scratch endurance fuel, which has like, I think it was like, you know, it has the fuel in it and it has a lot of electrolytes in hydration. So um that was good.

So I was working a little bit more with that, but I think week before the race, I I did I had most of my mistakes for the week before the race, I feel like I just like just completely I don't even know what happened. Maybe get blacked out. I don't know.

Uh before the because I just got so nervous the week before the race that I just wasn't drinking and I wasn't eating. So those were like the two big no-nos that I learned. And I didn't do it on purpose. I just was like so nervous and so like you know, anxious and like, oh, first one, like a lot of stuff I have to like have prepared for this.

And um, so yeah, I actually think going into the race, I probably was not fueled enough or had enough uh electrical. But yeah, yeah.

Um uh the body can kind of like almost shut down the normal cues where you're like, oh, I skipped that meal, like my brain wasn't even like I didn't realize I skipped a meal, right? Or um you're just finding that you're not as hungry or you're not as thirsty.

And it's just like the body's kind of like a little out of whack as it um just kind of deals with yeah, the excitement and the and maybe the worry and angst and everything else kind of happening during that week, um, which I'm really glad you went there um to stay on that week, but to change topics slightly, and then we'll kind of wrap up in a minute or

two. Um, I'm curious about like any observations other than that one, which was huge, around like taper for you. Like, did you did you notice like like how was taper for you? Did you like looking back, does anything like really stand out as far as how that went for you mentally, like what you learned and you might apply for your next one?

I I definitely don't think I mean I was fairly calm for at least uh until the week out. Um I kind of did like a three-week taper. Um and we didn't taper like, you know, a ton, a ton, because I like the last week that we did, but the two weeks out, not as much.

But we were starting to, and I definitely noticed that I was like getting a little more anxious because I did have more energy. Um, so I think I did a good job of like trying to bottle up that extra energy because sometimes I'll go crazy and try to just like I don't know, go bike around a whole bunch. So I'm like, I'm so excited.

Um, but yeah, so I did a better job than normal of like kind of bottling that energy up those three weeks out.

Um, but yeah, I would say for a I know a lot of runners have issues with like that taper just because you are feeling so fit, and all of a sudden you're doing less and just like mentally you have more energy, but you also are kind of worried like you're not losing fitness, but you maybe worried you are.

Um and so yeah, so I think next time going into that taper, I could definitely try to be a lot less anxious, especially that last week, um, and just really be like, oh, this is a great time for my body to heal and for like my nutrition to be really good so I can have all this extra fuel in the tank.

Like, is it like conversations with your coach or like I don't know, more journaling or like incorporate meditation? Like, I don't know, do you have any thoughts on like what you might do differently for or maybe what you even may recommend for people? Yeah. Um to kind of handle that aspect of taper.

But I feel like that's one of our things that's gotten a lot better is our communication. So I think for the next one, for that taper, our communication will hopefully even be better than this one, just with like, oh, I'm feeling a little anxious, and I bet he could just help me with that um to feel a little bit less anxious in that area.

But yeah, I think writing, I honestly just did some hot yoga, and I think short, I don't even want to do too much of that in taper because I know it can kind of drain your energy.

Um, but like doing maybe a couple short 30-minute like hot yoga sessions, I think would be good, um, or any type of yoga or meditation, just to kind of calm your mind down um and really just accept that taper and know that it's doing a lot of good for you.

You know, I mentioned meditation before, but like yeah, that could be that could be running, that could be or running, that could be writing, that can be, like you said, um you said hot yoga, but that could be just yoga, right?

So I think anything to kind of get your mind off the fact that, well, first that you're like, oh my gosh, my race is coming up, so you're kind of like nervous about that, but also off the fact that you're like coming off of such a great and I think also sometimes you're like having so much fun with all that training, it's such a big training block that

you're kind of like bummed that it's over, and you're like almost like you're super excited for the race, but you're kind of like, oh, like sometimes with me, I get like a little anxious to say, like, oh, the the whole thing's almost done, and I had so much fun doing it.

And so I think it's like grappling with those feelings too and being like, Okay, well, it's okay, you can do another one. Yeah. So yeah.

There's like doing my longest run of of the whole block now, and then like all of a sudden the next weekend, like things drop, and you're like wait, I was so used to like building, building, building, and like accomplishing, accomplishing, and now I'm like going down. Like what am I doing?

Yeah, and but that's real, like you you know that's um it is the reason why so many people, you know, like you're talking about, struggle with with taper and like that, that, like those, those, those, uh, that that negative self-talk and and whatnot, those doubts can kind of creep in.

Um, because you do go like you're getting on a high and hopefully really consistent, and then boom, dropping, but then you still have this marathon. Like the exact like goal of everything that you're doing.

Like, I know coaches know that, but it is like its own block of training where yes, the true like there's a training, the physical training component that changes and is more specific to taper, but like that it also needs to be this, like um, I think even more so than almost any other aspect, like a mental training or like component.

Um oh gosh, Mikana, I feel like there's like just so much more I want to like talk to you about. I feel like there's so much more to give to this conversation. So, what I'm thinking is that we need to figure out a part two for this conversation.

You know, they're running their first marathon, they want to run their first marathon, or any any race, like you said before, like you just love coaching and coaching various distances. How can people get in touch?

I try to I try to at some point look at those. Um and then yeah, through Ron Doyen, if you want to be coached by me, uh you can always go, you can find all of us on there, and um, you can always send a little messages so through that thing. So yeah.

I think you can probably get a plan created by you and we're obviously up with you for to you know for for you to be their coach. So um please get a touch clearly. Uh McKenna has a lot of offer, super personable. This is a really uh yeah, really awesome, just like super down-to-earth conversation with you, McKenna.

If you enjoyed the podcast today and haven't given us a rating on your podcast platform of choice, we'd appreciate you taking the time to do so. I'll be back here on the 26th of this month with our next episode of the Next Level Running Podcast. Thanks for tagging along with us, and until next time, have a great run.

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