And thank you for joining us on the Next Level Running podcast. I'm your host, Jacob Phillips, and we'll check off this month's short form edition of our Instagram Live Running Replays. As you know, this is when we replay our Instagram live events here on the Next Level Running podcast.
Last month, Will Benitez talked with Coach McKenna Morley about her preparation for the Chicago Marathon. For Coach McKenna, Chicago marked her debut, where she plays top 10 overall. This month, Coach McKenna is back again to give more insights into her prep for the Chicago Marathon. And the theme of the day is plan, plan, plan.
So without further ado, here is Will Benitez and Coach McKenna Morley.
Hey everybody. This is Will with Ron Doyan. Just hanging out here in my living room. We're about to go live with McKenna Morley. I hope I'm saying your last name right, McKenna. I'll ask you in a second. But um yeah, I'm excited for this. And this is part two of our conversation. And here's McKenna awesome. Let's see, let's see. Here we are. Hello. How's it going?
Good, how are you?
Yeah, I'm doing well. I am lounging. I am I am not in the office today. I am just uh hanging out in my living room with my dog. It's a true like Friday afternoon.
That is awesome. Awesome. I love it. I know I just went swimming and I was like, oh my gosh, I gotta get back. I got stuck in some traffic, but we made it back. I was like, oh no.
Oh I I appreciate I appreciate that. And you making sure that you know you you stuck with the commitment. Um yeah, it was tempting to reschedule. I was like, oh, I've got some stuff I could be doing, but I am excited to chat with you.
Great, yeah.
I was um I was listening to the tail end of our last live, um, whenever that was, like maybe a few weeks ago, a month ago.
A month ago, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe like we do this once a month, yeah, maybe like four or five weeks ago. Um and I had well, we promised, you know, the the hungry viewers out there that we were gonna do a part two. I actually didn't think it was gonna be this quick.
I know.
I was like, oh, we'll do part two in like August or September. Yeah. Um was like, hey, do you have anyone lined up for next month? And I was like, oh, no, I forgot. Um Yeah, I do now.
Hey, how worked out?
Yeah, let's get that part two over with. Um yes, which is great. I love that we can kind of just do it back to back.
Um so for those of you who uh who are here and you aren't sure what we're talking about when it comes to part two, um, last month I was talking with McKenna here, and we'll do introductions in a second, um, about um basically I think it was like preparation for your first marathon, because you had just done your first marathon last fall, right?
Yep. Yeah.
Um so it was just a really great um yeah conversation. Please go back and and listen or watch. Um that's in our feed here on our Instagram. And then this is basically part two, because there's there was just so much that we didn't get to cover uh that we were both kind of excited about. So I think for today I'd love to talk about.
I think we ended with taper, so we got like really close to kind of wrapping it up. But then I thought about like, oh, you know, um uh I think we're gonna talk about fueling, and we didn't really go into that. So like fueling hydration, just kind of strategies there, what worked, what didn't work, what you are excited to try next time.
Um recovery, that I think like how did you focus, what did that kind of look like um on your recovery kind of post-marathon, like immediately post-marathon, but then also like in the next week, two, three weeks, however you kind of approach that.
Um and then kind of like taking it back to training for just a bit, because we definitely talked a little bit more about training, so we don't have to like dive into training um too much for this one, but I was specifically um the the question of which is a common question for a lot of runners is do you run like a 10k or a half marathon, you know, three
or four weeks out from that marathon? Is that worth doing? Is that important? I would love to kind of dive into that um and just kind of see what you did, what you learned from that, if you did that. And then um there's probably one more thing. Well, let's just see where the conversation goes.
Don't probably talk a lot, so we'll cover it all in time.
Yeah, so before we dive into that, let's just do um introductions again. Um McKenna, do you want to start?
Sure. Um I am, I guess, McKenna Morley, and I run for um personally for A6 more marathon road type distances, and um also I'm a coach at Ron Doyle. So and I live in Montana, it's finally getting warm.
Finally, awesome, good for you. Yeah, we had a we had a warm stint, like a really warm stint here in Portland. Uh and it was like our true like end of April heat wave kind of thing. And then it and then it like dropped again. So um, but it's it's getting warm. It's it's warmer than it than it was. Um so not not complaining here. Um awesome.
So yeah, and hey everyone, my name is Will. I am the nutritionist with Ron Doyen and kind of like the host of these live conversations with our coaches. So if you look in our feed, you will mostly see live recordings of our feed.
Um sorry, live recordings of these conversations with our various coaches, um, where we just talk about various topics when it comes to um training and just, I don't know, hashtag runner's life or something like that. Whatever kind of comes up, whether it's like training through the winter, how to deal with injuries, strength training for runners.
I mean, there's just been so many awesome conversations that we've had. Um I've been on there as far as nutrition for runners. You can kind of go back in the in the archives for that one.
Um but yeah, I just love having these conversations with our coaches, introducing you to some phenomenal coaches that we have, or maybe you've been introduced to them before, but this is just a great way to kind of learn from them uh on a particular topic.
So getting to the topic of today, as mentioned, uh, we are talking about, well, I guess this is part two of preparation for your first marathon. Um and really it's just a hey, what did McKenna learn on her first marathon? And maybe there's something or some things that you can learn as well along the way listening to uh McKenna's story.
McKenna, real quick, what let's rewind just for people who um uh didn't tune in last time. What was that first marathon? Um why did you choose that first marathon? And then we can probably go into the topics for today.
Perfect. Um, I did Chicago Marathon last fall, so in October, um, and I chose that one just because I wanted some like, I don't know, the world major marathons, which is awesome. The whole vibe you can't really get from any other ones. There's some great marathons out there, but I just really wanted I do a lot better, but there's like a lot of cheering.
So I was like, hey, if I get really cheered along this whole time, um, hopefully it will be a little less painful during the marathon. So um, and that one looked like a great course, good timing for me too with training in Montana. So um, it just kind of worked out good. So, yeah, that was my first one.
Awesome. All right, so since you mentioned it, let's just talk about it. So, how was the atmosphere? Like, did you feel like you're like, yep, I got exactly what I was hoping for? I got the cheering, it helped me. Um, yeah, just go into that a little bit.
Yes, no, honestly, I think like it was there was just crowds almost the entire way, which is just crazy for a marathon. I feel like some marathons, like, you know, the first mile or two, there's a crowd, and then the finish line, but this time was like there was only a couple spots that were kind of quiet.
And usually my family was there, so it was not quiet. Um, and yeah, it was just awesome. I felt like so, I don't know, you just feel really cool when everyone's cheering for you. You're like, wow.
Yes.
Um, and definitely I was dying that last five to six miles, and those had like really packed crowds. So that honestly really helped me like just finish it in. Cause I I could have probably pretty easily been like, oh, throwing in the towel, but I was like, no, no, these people, these people want me to keep going, so I gotta go.
So no, it was amazing atmosphere. I loved it.
Yeah, that's awesome. Did you, I'm thinking about like what you said, like during the quiet sections, you had family there. Like, did you were you strategic about that? Were you like, okay, these look like they're gonna be quiet spots, or I was told they're gonna be quiet spots, so you're going here, you're going there. Like, how did that work out?
No, somehow it just they were on these like uh what are those called? The bikes that are like the e-bikes where you can like rent them. They were flying along on those. So they were just like, they almost hit, they hit like most of the spots.
So they were there in the crowded areas too, but they somehow got to the areas that were less crowded, which was great. Or I could just hear them better. I don't know. Maybe there's there were still some people there.
Um, they also might have, I think my dad did some research, so he I think knew more than me about where there was gonna be less crowds, and so I think he actually purposely didn't go to those spots.
So yeah, that that is the job of the cheerleaders like you figure out where you can perform.
It's like I can't look that up right now, too stressed, can't do that.
Totally. I love the I love the like the vision I got of um them like almost like finding you on the course, like finding where to go. I'm thinking of like when you're like on a track and like you've got like the teams or the coaches or the runners like running across the field to like the last straightaway.
I'm just like picturing them like e-biking or like e-scootering like along the course. I gotta get there.
Just pushing people out of the way. Excuse me, I gotta go. I'm sure they're doing that. If I really thank God I didn't see them doing that stuff, but you know, I'm sure they were.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so one more thing on like on atmosphere. I'm curious, because I I imagine that a lot of runners experience this, or runners meaning I guess anyone who's really done a race, but definitely marathonners, where the one thing you're really worried about is like not going out too fast, right?
It's just like so kind of warned against that that can kind of bite you. Um that was what happened in my first marathon. Um, luckily it only happens like the first mile, but I couldn't help myself with my marathon. So fun. So much energy.
Yeah. Um did you feel I mean, maybe because you're you know at a different level in terms of your your competition, um, but did you feel like the atmosphere was like um kind of uh perfect for that, like potentially going out too fast? Like how what was your kind of approach for those first like couple miles?
Yes, no, honestly, I had to like really keep that in mind because with all those crowds, especially in the first, like they're really thick for the first, you know, like multiple miles of the race. And so that actually can't, you can get pretty like like excited with all the crowds and go out too hard.
So I was really careful um to not do that because I was like, oh, I can't, like I could have really easily just really gone for it, but like, yes, because also starting a marathon, which I'm sure we talked about, but like the first couple miles that me it feels like really easy, I guess not easy, but you know, it doesn't feel like you're like super taxed,
which is great, you shouldn't feel taxed yet. Um and but then you kind of like you could get really swept into that. But I also was lucky enough to have a pacer. Um, so I actually think if I hadn't had that pacer, I might have got a little excited and went a little faster. So thank God for the pacer. Thank you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. That that helps. Not everyone has that pacer. I have to say the thousands. No, you can jump behind like the people with the flat, yes. Right. So that can help if if you have those for sure.
Yeah. Um the other thing I think, so so talking about you know the first couple miles not being um too taxing, I think what can also probably help a lot, often helps you people in on race day, is to warm up. Um people I think probably have a question, like, oh, I'm about to run 26.2 miles. Like, do I really need to warm up with another mile or two?
How did you how did you approach warm-up? But then also what's kind of your general um recommendation for your clients as far as like their warm-up strategy, and particularly on like those longer days, like half marathons, marathons races.
Yep. Yeah, no, I think it is like it is kind of counterintuitive because you're like, oh, I'm gonna go run so far. Um, and just because the beginning is not super like you don't feel like you're sprinting out of the gates like you would in like a 5K.
Sometimes you're like, oh, I don't need a warm up, but no, I think warm-up is great because I also think you're warmed up enough that you can then kind of monitor your start pace a little bit better too. Um, just because you're kind of you know ready to go after that.
So I usually have my athletes do, you know, before a marathon, I'll have them do like 10 minutes of super easy jogging. Um, and that's pretty much what I did. I did, I think, 10 to 15 minutes before my marathon, just really easy, like a lot slower than like a normal easy day pace would even be. Um, and we just ran, I think we just ran loops around.
We had this like little area we had to be in, and it was a very small loop. Um, but we just did a lot of loops around that. And I think it was really helpful in like calming your nerves down too, which I think nerves can be a big reason why you start a little bit too fast, too.
Um, so if you get a little bit like 10 minutes of that, I think it like settles your brain a little bit, gets you warmed up, and then you can be a little more careful on that start.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
That's a good, that's a good thing to mention is nerves probably does get um uh the better of the rest of most people when it comes to racing, just not even necessarily like nervous for what's to come, but just that excitement, which I think like healthy nerves can add to that and like kind of make you, you know, not as clear-headed, like, oh, you know, you
don't even really feel like you're running fast. No, in those in those moments, you're just like owl. Yeah, and you're like, wait, what? I'm like dropping like 20 seconds faster than I should have been for this. Oh no. For sure. Um, cool, cool. Well, real quick, we had someone, uh, not a question, but Brunette Voyager said, Looking great, McKenna.
Hope you're recovering quickly.
Thank you. Yes, uh, we're getting there.
Okay. Are we talking, we're not talking about recovering from Chicago.
Did you just release injury? Yep, no, no, I had an injury. Yep, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, no, we're recovering. Um I just did my second walk run um of uh it's been the longest uh injury. Um, but we are I did it today, and we are we're coming out of it as the weather gets better too.
So it's perfect timing. Yep. So I don't know about this injury, and today's topic is not necessarily about this injury, but we can maybe go like five five or ten minutes into that, but not not just yet.
Um we'll do it later.
Yeah, I mean it came up, but it it's good. I feel like we have to like touch on it uh if you're okay with it. It seems like it's kind of on the fresher side for you.
Totally fine.
Um so let's jump back to um training and that question I had about which I think others commonly have, is do I race before, like in in that last kind of like training block or portion of a training block into the marathon? Um and what what is that race? How do I approach that race? Often it's a half marathon, can it be a 10K?
Um again, how like do I race that half marathon? Do I do it at marathon pace? Can we get into like what you did, if any of that, but then also what you generally um recommend for clients who have a similar question?
Yeah, no, that's a great question. I get that a lot. And I've actually been talking to a lot of my clients about kind of what to do for their upcoming marathons.
Um, so yeah, I really like having a race between usually I say four to six weeks out, because just because you know, a schedule, you know, there's not always a perfect half marathon somewhere that's four weeks out. So I give it a little bit of a range. Um, I did one four weeks out, and I did, it was actually a local one, so it's perfect.
I did one on Bozeman here. It was great because it was pretty low-key. Um, and I really like having people do that, and I enjoyed doing that because I could practice my fueling a little bit. Because I'd never done it in more of like a race setting, I'd just done fueling more in like a you know, practice setting.
And so it was great to be able to actually practice it when I was running fairly fast. And I think for that one, at least for me, I started at what I would want marathon pace to be. Um, and then I kind of cut down the last five or six miles. The last half of that half marathon, um, I cut down it was a little bit sub-marathon pace.
Um, so usually that's what I've been at having my clients look for. I think a 10K would be fine too. I probably prefer them to do somewhere between a 10-mile race and a half marathon, just so you get a little longer.
Um, and then yeah, I usually will have them practice um running their marathon pace and bringing some of the gels that they're gonna have or you know, hydration that they're gonna have during that marathon and practicing it as often as they would in the marathon, just to kind of get used to doing that in a race setting. So yeah, I think that's a great question.
And do really think it's a good if you like to race. Some people are like, oh, I hate racing before the race. So I'm like, okay, you just do the race and then maybe we'll do like a workout simulation of that. But yeah, I think having a race in there also breaks it up. It's kind of fun. Um, and then you're like, I'm almost done. We're almost to it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect. Yeah, that's a great point. Like it it it's just like a way to kind of break up the monotony of training and bring some fun. You know, again, if racing is fun for you, bring some fun into the mix.
Um, you mentioned something that I think a lot of people also have, is like, oh, I well, I can't find a race, you know, or I have a travel if I'm gonna do that.
And like that's not always possible, or um maybe the best, like in terms of like if it's flying, like you're tiring out the body, you've got to recover from that, like you increase the risk of you getting sick and you've got a big marathon coming up.
Um, for those situations, um, do you recommend like do you do like a time trial or do you recommend a time trial workout of the same kind of distance?
Yeah, usually I would have them do something, maybe like even like a 10, a sort of tempo time trial type thing, um, kind of similar distance, like 10 miles to maybe half marathon. Um, and that one just really focus on just doing marathon pace. I think it could be a little harder to do it like on yourself to do it all alone without the race environment.
So that one I probably wouldn't have people, you know, go too much faster than their marathon pace towards the end. Um, but yeah, definitely. I think it's just good to be able to have some sort of long effort in there and where you can practice the fueling and everything like that. But yeah, no, totally, yeah.
I usually try to find have people find one like close to home. But if they can't find that, then yeah, just and don't want to travel, then definitely just doing one like one weekend that's like four weeks out would be great too.
Awesome. Um okay, great. I think that can bring us to um the question of I want to skip fueling and hydration just real quickly. I'm curious about um recovery. Because I feel like we didn't really talk about that, but that's a really good and important topic, I think. It's like um just in case we don't get to both of them.
I definitely want to talk about recovery. Great. Um curious, like again, what you did and then what you also recommend, um, because aren't necessarily one and the same. Um in terms of, yeah, like what not even like so much what you did that day, but maybe that evening, like if you did like stretching or foam rolling or whatnot.
Um, but also just how you approach like those next couple weeks or a few weeks or month even. Um to kind of get your your body like recovered as as efficiently and quickly as possible, um, and you know, kind of ready for your next training block. So, yeah, what did what did you do? How did you approach that?
Um, did you plan that did you have like an actual plan for that? Um, and then yeah, how do you have that conversation with your clients? Yes, yes.
So this that's a great question. Um, I don't feel like I necessarily took the recovery as well as I needed to. Um so and I think kind of that is just because I didn't really have a plan um that I had like thought about going into it. And so I kind of just had like been like, oh marathon, and then that's where I kind of stopped thinking.
Um, but I do think that recovery, that like especially that two weeks right after the marathon is super, super important. And so um I think I, you know, the day of the race, I feel like that one's kind of hard to like like till it because I feel like you you get the race and you're all excited, still you're tired, but you want to go eat and walk around.
Um, so I feel like that day, just do kind of whatever you want to do, celebrate running the race and everything. And then um I feel like the next I know some people who do some running that next week. Um, but I would say personally, because I did that, don't don't think it worked very well.
Oh, and so I think if I were to do it again, I would come back in and usually what I'll tell my clients is take at least a week off. I think some walking is great because you're like moving the legs, getting some blood flow in there. Um, but just kind of do stuff you like to do.
So if you like to go ride a bike, go do all that stuff, um, and at least don't run for a week. I think after a marathon it'd be great to not do it for 10 days to at least two weeks, just because that body's like probably pretty um sore after that.
But also if you have a marathon coming up, I know some people, I have a client who's doing a couple marathons fairly back to back. So what I think we're gonna do is probably take a couple days off and then just like do really, really short runs um for the rest of that week and kind of like ease back into it.
Um, but yeah, I think that having a plan is great for that post recovery and just really taking it really easy for at least a couple weeks after that marathon. I think um my problem was that I definitely well, I was I was going to a wedding the week after.
So I went to Boulder where I went to school, and I was like I was like, Oh, I got I can't run, but then I was like, Why I gotta run all these runs I like to do. And so I was like bad timing on my part. I was like, oh yeah, I'll I'll just run them. And um, I also was like a little bit frustrated with how the race result went.
So I think having a plan would have kept me from running when I was frustrated. Um and so I think that is really helpful. But I definitely think I ran a little bit too much that following week. I still didn't run a ton, but I probably should have, I think I was kind of tired and um came out of it too fast.
So I recovered after like you know, three or four weeks, but definitely took me longer to recover, I think, than if I would have just been like, oh, let me take this week really easy, gonna be off. I can walk on the roads I like to run on, but I'm not gonna run. So yeah, I thought it was kind of all over the place.
But that's kind of the answer to that.
No, no, that's super helpful. And I think um it gets to the to like the the crux of that is like have a plan. Yeah, right. Like it doesn't just stop at marathon um because you know, there's like I feel like two ways you can take it and both will be wrong, right?
And there's multiple ways, but two like common ways you can take it and both will be wrong, which is like to do nothing for two weeks because you just trained and not just ran the race, but like you just spent, you know, three, four months, maybe more, training, and sure, you're tired.
Um, and maybe I guess if you're if you're not gonna run anymore, then yeah, no problem. Like take those two weeks and do nothing. But if you are planning on like continuing to run or train for something after, then movement in those couple weeks after is like super critical to your recovery.
But at the same time, the other wrong way you could take it is jumping into things too quickly, um, which maybe most people are gonna give themselves like a few days to ease, you know, to go easy, but they might need way more than that, even though they might feel refreshed and recharged. Their body is very clearly still recovering.
Um so I think having a plan for how you're gonna approach you know those two weeks maybe more.
And I I think it it could be more if you if you experience injury in that training block, if you um if the if you if you had some sort of like event happen during the race, like some sort of um like heat related event, the recovery is surely gonna be longer, even if you didn't get to complete it.
Um and then if you are new to running, I think um that probably warrants a longer or at least a a smarter recovery plan too. Yes. Um so I think yeah, having that plan like really completes the marathon training training cycle. Oh, for sure.
Um is what you can actually get two weeks, maybe maybe longer, out of the marathon, af on the on the tail end of it, healthy, rejuvenated, recharged, um, and that includes movement, um, you know, a mix of mix of movement, probably some running, um, but not even like running, like training running, but just like just like yeah, just fine.
Just like I don't know, no real plan maybe in those runs. Just like, hey, go do something for 20 minutes, but take it super easy. Like, you know, perceived exertion or effort of like two or something.
Like one or two. Yeah.
Um, or yeah, like hop on the bike, you know, if you've been ignoring the bike because you've been running for, you know, you know, training for a marathon, like good good time to just hop on the bike and just get that blood plump in and recovery going. Um cool. So excuse me, what I hear is yeah, have a plan.
That is something you didn't have, but um could be really critical for for other runners out there. Um all right, let's let's let's let's dive into a little bit uh in running and and hydration or sorry, fueling and hydration. I think we talked a little bit about that in part one. Um I'm not so sure how far we got into it. Yeah, I think. Um I know.
If I'm remembering correctly, I think one one lesson was a part of a lesson that you learned, which was um you didn't really practice as much of what you wanted to do or were going to do in the marathon as you would have liked, kind of looking back. Um I don't know how far we dove into that.
Um, but basically what let's not even use your experience, just maybe use like what you now have conversations like with your clients around this. Um, what what's your kind of general um yeah, like advice when it comes to fueling and hydration for for the clients you work with in preparation for a race?
Yeah, I've actually been working with some now that don't have race like marathons till the fall, and I'm actually, and some of them have them like late summer, but I actually am starting to kind of have them start taking or trying out things now. Um and we're pretty far out. But I think if you find something now that works, then you like at least have it.
So I think my issue was I kind of got too close to it, and I was like, well, I think this works, but I don't totally know if it sits that good. Um so I think if we find something really early, like months out that they love, they like like to use it, um, then we at least know what that is.
And then I feel like really practicing if that lasts like four to six weeks and doing that, you know, pretty often, um, at least on the workout days, um, and then on long runs, I think that would be like enough to be able to have where they know it would sit well in their stomach.
Um, and even having them start practicing on long runs, maybe like at the very start of that marathon cycle, you know, like three to four months out, even and just doing it once a week for a while.
And as we get a little bit closer to the thing, doing it, you know, a couple times a week, and then definitely on that, you know, race or race simulation four to six weeks out. So I think that is great.
I think just practicing it is the biggest thing, and doing it, I think, at least in my personal thought, and what I wish I would have done is done it earlier. Um, so I knew, you know, oh, actually I don't like that that I was taking, and uh I'm gonna try something else. So yeah.
Yeah, for sure. Right. And and that's so important because even like I'm thinking of like a super specific, but it happens uh kind of situation, which is um let's say like it's it's a like like say product A that you're trying out and you tried it out early on and it worked really well. And you're like, okay, that's that that works well.
Um I know I can use that um you know for the race. But let's say now it gets it's getting hotter, you know, and and then you learn, oh, in the heat. That doesn't work too well. Yeah, you wouldn't learn that if you didn't practice early enough. But by practicing early enough, you have that opportunity to test various things in different scenarios.
Yeah. Um and that helps you get the timing right and it helps you learn, oh, when when it's really hot, um, that's either not enough, thinking about like fuel or sorry, hydration and electrolytes maybe, or in terms of sugars, like, oh, I that doesn't work for me when it's you know pushing above 75, 80, 90 degrees.
But clearly it worked for me when it was 60 degrees, and that usually comes to heat and and the um how just your internal temperature can kind of get, and that really changes up um your your fueling game potentially.
So I think basically the earlier the better is what is what you've learned, and I think is definitely ideal because in that way you also get to experiment with more as well, as not not just like um you know, just a couple of things and get really comfortable with those couple of things, which I think is great.
Um, but potentially you get to experiment with more and just gain more confidence along the way.
Yeah, no, and that's so good. I I've actually just been, you know, doing a whole bunch of research on it too, and the heat thing is huge because I feel like I know, I feel like it's good to have multiple different things, because like what if race day, like New York this year? What if it was way harder than you thought it was gonna be?
Um and so then if you're like not prepared and don't have a couple different options, and I think that that would be hard because you might be taking something and you're like, oh, that's not sitting too good when it's 80 degrees out. Yeah. So yeah, no, I think that's really important.
Um, and that's yeah, something I've been, and you probably know all kinds of stuff about that, but I'm just now learning about like the heat and the different stuff with the feeling. Yeah.
Yeah, and then also I'm thinking about the cold. So so I'm thinking about my first marathon, it was Philly, and uh it's November race. I think it's still November. Um and I wasn't this was this was enough years ago where like the only at least I that I knew, like gel on the market was Google. Oh yeah.
Um so it it predated at least the popularity, but maybe even many uh existing uh uh companies that are out there in terms of gels. Um so I used a lot of like Whole Foods for my fuel. And and one of the things that I use was Cliff Bar.
And I probably could like it.
I brought a Cliff Bar with me on the race, and in training, you know, from like August on, it was totally fine, right?
Great, yeah.
Didn't think about the fact that, you know, in I think it was like 20 something when we started like in in like mid to late November um in Philadelphia, and that cliff bar was a rock. It was rock solid.
Yeah, you're not getting that. I could just gnawing on it, yeah.
Yeah, I I tried opened it and that's how I learned it was rock solid. Um, and I think it was, I don't know, it was like mile 16, something like that. And uh, I mean, there's so many lessons to learn at the first marathon, right? Like there's so many things wrong there. Um but yeah, it was a rock, so I didn't have I didn't have that fuel.
So like, yeah, on the flip side of like being too high, like dealing with like, oh, the sugars and and how's my body gonna respond to this kind of fuel? It's like, oh, if you're in that kind of situation where you're running, you know, a colder late fall, early winter marathon, um, how's your fuel gonna hold up?
And and gels we don't really have to worry about, liquid nutrition we don't have to really worry about. But if you're using whole food nutrition, um definitely something to consider. I was like, is that gonna be edible?
Nope, frozen.
Yeah, it really, really was. That was really interesting. Did not think about that. Um okay, this is all super great. I want to leave a little bit of space and we can kind of wrap up after.
Um, if you care to share about what kind of what's going on with you, and maybe not to get into the nitty-gritty details, but um what I'm really curious to kind of take advantage of this opportunity is um almost like your approach to injury recovery. Like that just came out of nowhere, clearly.
Um so I'm really curious about that and anything that you have or care to share with us about your approach, what you're learning along the way, mindset potentially.
Yes, for yeah, I guess there's a lot. So I could probably talk a ton on this. I'll try to keep it short. Um, but this is my first bone injury that I've ever had. So um I think now it's a good thing. So I'm learning a lot, and now I can, you know, have a lot more information um that I can help with other people too.
Um yeah, I have this uh it's a medial femoral condyle stress reaction. So it's like right there down by your knee, and like that little, they're like the little balls at the end of your femur. Um, and so yeah, it's and it was a pretty big reaction. Um, we don't totally I think it's the from running on, we're thinking it's from running on.
There was so much ice in Bozeman this winter. Um, and so because usually just my bones have held up pretty good before this. But this is definitely the most ice and like uncertain footing that I've you know ever run on. And so I think it definitely stemmed from that.
Um, I also had a small hamstring injury that I think running weird from that could have also, you know, stemmed some of that on. Um so yeah, so that's the injury. Um we're I'm learning a lot about like, you know, stress reactions, stress fractures, all those type of things. Um, but apparently they can take way longer than they think to heal.
So I am in like, let's see. I think I am today 12 weeks from the initial injury, and I am just now starting to run. So originally they said six weeks, and I was like, okay, I can do that. Um we are 12 weeks in. So thank God I actually didn't know that at the beginning because that one to be pretty.
Um but yeah, so I think it is like for runners, you know, that run a lot and you just really truly love running.
Um, it's really hard because you like hear, oh my gosh, I can't do anything for you know six weeks, and especially if you have races on the calendar that you're like trying to get ready for still, um, or you know, maybe you have to cancel a couple, but you want some coming up. It's like really hard to like mentally wrap your mind around it.
Um, and I think that that is something I've definitely struggled with the most is like mentally being okay with where I'm at. Um, and I think that I think people, it's gonna be kind of a roller coaster, but I feel like the biggest thing is don't jump on the pain roller coaster, which is what I definitely did.
Um, I feel like one day it'd be a little better and I'd be like, yeah, and I'd be like snopes, and then the next day, just because you know, bones and healing, they're not always, you know, linear, it's gonna have up and down days. It would hurt the next day, and I'd be really down.
Um, so I kind of wish I would have just kind of had more of like a big long-term picture in my brain where I'm like, hey, like we're focused on healing. And I think my one of my my old college coach actually told me this. She said, kind of look at it week by week, and that makes you not really ride that roller coaster of emotion quite as much.
Um, and you can be like, well, last Tuesday, you know, it felt a little better than or felt a little worse than this Tuesday, so it's good we're making some progress.
So um I think that on the mental side can be really hard and something you just kind of have to play with and I think get through, but I think you'll be tougher for it after this whole thing. So um, and then yeah, I've been just kind of doing I just got a new bike, um, and so that's been really fun.
Um, I'm doing all these things that I used to love to do before I was running so much, and I'm kind of getting back into it and learning to enjoy that type of things. I feel like at the beginning I hated the cross-training because I like had to do it. So I was like, oh my gosh.
Um, so I would suggest for people finding something they like to do and kind of thinking it as like thinking of it as you're learning something new and you're strengthening new muscles. Um, because I think if you're thinking of it like, oh no, I'm losing running fitness, then you're just gonna be mad that you're doing the cross-training.
Um, so I think just yeah, I've been doing a lot of swimming, aqua jogging, biking, and um, I think I did uh do overdo that a little bit at the very beginning, just because I was like mentally kind of all over the place.
So I think um the biggest thing for people would be like really take that first couple weeks after you learn you have an injury, take that really easy because I think that can really boost you later in the process.
Um, so maybe get on, you know, do the pool a little bit, but I would say mentally don't totally wear yourself out because I think I was like overdid it that first two weeks and then but then I took a couple weeks easy and then then we were back after that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that. I know you're not like a PT or anything, but um I'm curious, like I can imagine or see where people will be like, oh, okay, I'm injured, but um now I'm going to um you know aqua jog or bike because I can't run.
If it's like a phone injury, for example, in your case, like a stress reaction or stress fracture. I guess there's probably more stress reaction where you're gonna be clear to like do um some activity right away, just not you know, weight bearing or not, you know, um running or anything like that. Um, but then it's it's something new, right?
So they're like, oh, I would have run an hour run, uh, and instead I'll do an hour aqua job or an hour, an hour uh on the bike or something like that.
Um so I can see how people can easily overdo it in the safer cross-training, which the activity itself would be better and okay and greenlit from you know your PT or doctor, but you could easily kind of overdo it if you probably try to match you know what you would have done running, but also healthy, you know, yeah pre injury.
Um but I can see where like, oh, I was I you know I got the okay to do that, or um, okay, it's it's less impact, I'm gonna be fine. But yeah, clearly there's you can also kind of overdo that. Yes, maybe have a pain flare, or you know, kind of um add, you know, a few more days or longer to your recovery process. Oh, for sure.
Yeah, um, is that something kind of makes me think about this?
Like, is that something you put a plan together at some point to like almost control how you're going to approach at the time that six-week period um to just kind of stick by and make sure that you know you don't worsen anything, or at least you have some um plan therefore, some sort of like comfort in like how you're gonna approach the next you know, month
and a half. Is that something you gave attention to?
Yes, I wish I would have had a little more plan at the beginning, um, but I think plans are huge, especially for runners that just love to run. A lot of times we're pretty type A people, and so I think we will also a lot of times overdo it if we don't have a plan. Um, same goes like for when you know when I'm running too.
A lot of times if I don't, if I don't, my coach is not telling me what to do, I'm probably gonna be like, oh, I'll go do this crazy run um for fun. So I think having a plan is huge. Um and then that can kind of and I feel like also with the plan, though, you have to be flexible, especially with an injury.
I think that's something I have a hard time with. If someone gives me a plan, I'm just like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, follow it exactly. And I think with an injury, you have to, it's great to have a plan, but you have to be flexible with that plan. So like if you are feeling more pain one day, definitely back off.
Um, and I think the biggest thing is like you have to like listen to your body with that plan. So if you're like, I just feel like that's that's been something I'm learning, is like, oh yeah, if you're a little more sore one day, that means you know, the day before you probably overdid it. Um and then so then back off that day.
So yeah, but I do think plan is huge for that, if for helping that.
Yeah, awesome. And I think as it comes to like, you know, uh uh post-marathon plan or marathon training plan. Just plans, injury plan, yeah, playing right, you keep using that word. Um, but also I think it's a really great reason to have a coach.
Um and to just be able, especially if it's your first one or if you're more injury prone and by far from your first marathon or race, um, all of those scenarios and many more, I think warrant like, okay, if you haven't worked with a coach before, it could be a really great opportunity um or time to yeah, to invest in in a coach and to really invest in your
running in that in that really different but really impactful way. Um I don't know, I don't know what your I mean, obviously you're a coach, so obviously like you're like, yes, exactly. But in in your like relationship with your coach, like I mean, clearly like you also value coaches, not just because it helps you pay your bills, but you pay a coach.
Like you just know how important it is to have a coach for your training. Can you can you speak to that a little bit? And that can kind of wrap us up for today.
Yes, no, I think coaches are huge because I feel like um a lot of us, kind of like us what I said before, runners are people who just like really like to exercise and you love to run and you can get really overzealous, I think, and just like really go for it.
Um, and I think sometimes that's okay, but I think a lot of times you have to be pulled back a little bit by a coach. Um, and just kind of to know what to do, like where to put workouts or where to put a rest day. Um, I think that's huge. So yeah, I have really benef benefited from it.
Um, I feel like a lot of us could probably write our own training, but there's no way I would I was like, I I had a coach telling me what to do. Um because I think, yeah, the biggest thing is just like it really helps you from overdoing it.
It will help you when you, you know, have that race, it'll help you with the taper time, it'll help you with the, you know, the plan for after, um, which my coach and I should have discussed a little more for mine. Um I was like, oh, wedding time. We don't have time for it. Um but yeah, yeah.
So I think yeah, it's just so helpful having someone there that you can also bounce ideas off and be like, well, I'm tired, and then they can talk to you and be like, okay, let's, you know, take it down a notch to next week. Where I think if it was like just on you to do that, it would be hard to know what was like the correct thing to do.
So I think it's just kind of having another brain to kind of bounce ideas off and just basically talk to about your running and also they're invested in you and you're invested in them, so it's it's nice to have like a someone who like really believes in you with that stuff.
So totally. Yeah, I couldn't at the I so resonated with what you just said about you can like most of us, and I know you probably meant like most of us, probably like elite runners, because you just have way more than. No, I did not. No. Maybe meant all of us. Yeah, I would say I would I would agree with you to an extent.
I'm sure many people were like, I can't write my own plan if you paid me. Um but that is something I did early on. Like I was by by no means and early on, like meaning like when I got into distance running in college, um, it was like, yeah, I just kind of wrote my own stuff.
When I did my first marathon, did my first half marathon, I think my first few marathons, actually. Um I just kind of did my own thing, or I like got something from online and just like adapted it, um, or like maybe made it a little bit more specific kind of thing.
But I think really the beauty of working with a coach, I mean there's so so many um places where that's true, but in terms of a plan, is not so much writing that initial plan, right? It's I think kind of like what you said, like being able to have that plan be reflective of what happens throughout a training cycle, which is life.
Yeah, like oh, I can't do that workout because this happened, or um, I need to move this around for a variety of reasons, or I'm going on vacation that week, like what do I do? And like if you if you pull a plan from online or if you're writing your own, that's one thing. But then what do you do when you have to change anything?
Like that is where things can very quickly get really like wonky. Oh really potentially potentially dangerous if you're like um, oh, I'll be fine, I'll I'll do this then. And best case scenario, you just didn't get as much out of that training session or a week.
Worst case scenario, you're doing way too much or way too little, and um, but I think way too much in in most cases, and you're you're risking injury. Yeah, um or burnout or something like that.
Um so I think yeah, having a coach just that's just so valuable in terms of like really um adapting, you know, like you said, what what one can probably do to some degree pretty decently in terms of like, oh, I didn't know how to add up to 50 miles a week, and I could do that myself. And I'll do a long run on the weekend and the work.
out during the week and I'll be good to go. But really, yeah, it's like, well, what happens in those four or so months where you just can't follow that plan once you do that.
Yep.
Um and then how does it impact the next week or how does it impact the next couple days? And that's that part is that's that part's really hard to learn. And then a really hard to like kind of stay accountable to as well. For sure.
Yeah. No, I think that's that's honestly I think the biggest reason to have a coach. Just you know being able to move stuff around, talk to them and yeah, I think that's exactly you hit it right on the head there.
Yeah, awesome. Okay. Well Mekenda, thank you so much.
Yes, thank you.
Jumping here on to our part two of our uh marathon conversation and rushing over from your swim session.
I'm glad that you are back to running it sounds like I don't I don't know if you ran today if today was just a swimming day but you are uh you had your first run recently if any uh at any case so um congrats for that and hopefully hopefully your the rest of your recovery goes very well exactly um if things go super well how can people kind of follow
along what do you what are your what are your plans for between now and fall? Do you have anything going on?
Well so I think since it's been such a slow time I kind of have like taken a lot of stuff off the calendar. I want to do Chicago again in the fall um that I still I'm not sure if I'm gonna have time. So we're gonna see I'm kind of gonna see like in July how I'm feeling but I think honestly my main thing is just the trials in um February.
Um this next coming February the Olympic trials so that I want to kind of have like my main thing and then I'll probably do a whole bunch if I don't do Chicago I'll probably do a whole bunch of you know road races this fall um that are a little bit shorter not quite that marathon distance maybe half marathon 10 mile um type road races so I'll I will be
racing this fall maybe Chicago maybe not um we're gonna see how much time I have and how long it how long this thing actually takes to kind of totally go away.
So yeah totally well we are rooting for you here at Ron Julian.
I'm sure everyone who's tuned in is going to be rooting for you um uh whether it's Chicago or you know whatever else you've got going on this fall in preparation for Sounds like goal A which would be um the trials next next uh yeah February winter um cool well again thank you so much for your time I imagine that we'll probably be seeing you here again before
uh before you know October uh but definitely before before the trial so great everyone here tune in follow McKenna um find McKenna if you're curious to um vet McKenna as part of as as you know potential coach you can go to rondoin.com you can drop down on our um coaching tab or or services tab I forget what it's called um but you can schedule a conversation
with McKenna you can message McKenna to just kind of go back and forth a little bit and see if it's the right fit. So there are a couple different options for you to see if um you want to work with McKenna in your own uh race prep or just your own kind of running journey. So uh with that anything else you want to add McKenna?
No I don't think so I guess happy training to everyone happy spring training happy spring uh yeah keep keep running keep staying healthy um and yeah see you out on the course so yeah all right McKenna well thank you so much you have a great rest of your Friday and weekend and we'll see you around thank you all right bye bye well that's it for this month's
replay of our Instagram live with Will Benitez and Coach McKenna Morley but before you go I want to point you to our show notes below where I've got links to Coach McKenna's Run Doyan coaching profile as well as links to our at Run Doyen Instagram page and next level running Facebook group.
Also I'd like to take a moment to ask you to rate this podcast on your podcast platform of choice. I'll be back here on the 26th of this month with our next episode of the Next Level Running Podcast.
So until next time have a great run thank you for joining us here on the Next Level Running Podcast your source for training advice from the expert coaches at Rundoya. If you're ready to take your training and race to the next level head over to rundoia.com and get matched into ideal code who will provide you with a highly customized online training feedback