Having FUN While Training: Why and How w/ Coach Bobby Van Allen

I'm your host, Jacob Phillips, here to introduce this month's short form edition of the Next Level Running Podcast. This is where we replay our Instagram live chats. This month, Coach Bobby Van Allen joins Will Benitez to talk about keeping training fun.

This was the perfect conversation for me as I'm trying to get back into shape following a long hiatus from serious training. Just this week I was struggling through some tough runs and through a miserable heat wave. And Coach Bobby's talk gave me plenty of resources to employ to get back to enjoying my own training. I hope that you find it as helpful as I did.

I'll be sure to include Coach Bobby's contact information in the show notes, as well as a link to our next level running Facebook community group and our Run Doy and Instagram page so that you can follow us and be alerted anytime we have one of these live events. Now, on to the training talk with Coach Bobby Van Allen and Will Benitez.

So yeah, we'll go over some of that training, um, some of the different workouts that we try to do here at Hopkins that I do with uh some of our Rundoy and client clients, um, you know, and even stuff that you know I've just been able to do through, you know, kind of get connected with other high school coaches, college coaches, um, as we all share ideas and

try to continue to spice up our sport.

Um I ran at the University of Maryland um 1998, um, you know, study kinesiology um with a real focus on a biophysics um, you know, option of that kinesiology degree there.

So just continuing to try to you know kind of keep pushing things forward here um and and get involved in you know different other sets, especially kind of when when COVID happened, getting involved with coaching some online um clients as well. Um, but really it's it's what I do here at Hopkins, that's you know, 99% of everything.

Uh hopefully you're familiar with me doing these uh Instagram lives with our coaches. I am the nutritionist with Ron Dolan. Um and yeah, I just always love getting on here and chatting with uh some some really spectacular coaches in our sport.

Um and today uh we have Coach Bobby here, and as I mentioned, we are gonna be talking about uh fun, maybe varied workouts uh in uh in 5K, 10K training. We'll we'll see how the conversation evolves.

Um so uh coach when I when I kind of reached out and and you know we were chatting about or I asked you what kind of topics maybe we can kind of um focus on for this for this uh call here today. Uh this was one of the ones that you had that you threw out. I'm curious, um, why do you feel like this is a topic?

Why do you think that this is worth talking about, uh, worth you know implementing in your coaching, worth athletes' attention as well.

That's why we make it a big part of not only our camp coming up next week, but it's a big part of you know how things get started at Hopkins for us every fall is kind of really diving into the physiology. So by all means, we we can't just be doing all sorts of different things that may be fun, that don't make sense.

But I think as as you really trying to pinpoint, okay, here's the type of workout, here's the energy system that we're really trying to target today. How do we spice things up?

How do we keep it um you know from from being dull and and and keeping things a little more active rather than just you know, I can't I can't tell you how many high schoolers are just every every Tuesday they run the same 12 by 400 meter reps um you know every single week, you know, certainly getting a little dull. I mean, it's a great workout.

Um certainly we're gonna do that at different points, and you get excited as you start being able to like drop those paces, but you know, there's different ways that we can achieve the same results in a very different ways. Um, and especially as you start trying to get in, like you're trying to, you know, you're trying to train your mind also.

You're trying to train how you can, you know, really be actively, positively engaged in something, you know, whether you're talking, you know, uh, you know, 18, 20 minutes, you know, or whether you're talking, you know, for some, you know, 10K runners that are trying to break an hour for the first time.

How am I how am I trying to get really actively engaged mentally for and not falling asleep and keep things exciting? And you know, we get into a lot of that stuff here on the mental side of you know what might be going on in your head that can either have your body start limiting what you can do physically or maybe enhancing what you can do physically.

Um, so they're all they're all connected, and I think when you start trying to spice up and just modify different workouts, and sometimes that makes things very difficult, but um, it just prepares you to be able to handle many different type race strategies and how things might go in.

But at the same point, just you know, you're talking about the longevity of our sport, and most of our results aren't coming from you know just having one great month or two great months, it's it's years and years of consistency that can get you there.

So I think it's uh when you when you're talking about on the longer scale of stuff, how are we going to keep things exciting and engaged while also be able to stimulate the mind appropriately?

You know, when you were talking, and even this topic just makes me think about um when uh you know, you you like you mentioned with the four by twelve hundred uh or twelve twelve by four hundred, sorry, um, kind of workout, like you know, these workouts that are just commonplace, you know, when when you zoom out, like these things happen all the time.

Um I'm curious, say you have a of a runner, not even necessarily like a collegiate, you know, athlete, but just a just a you know a general runner that maybe you're working with, um and they're seeing progress, you know, um, in in in these like very um uh common workouts that they're doing. They do them all the time.

Like you said, we're not working, they're not quite there yet with the variety that they should be after. But again, they're seeing that progress. They're they're they're it's getting easier, uh, and or they're able to hit you know quicker paces. Um uh something's not working, right? They're getting more fit, clearly.

Um are they missing out by just doing kind of the same thing, by by stressing the same systems in the same way, um versus like you're like you were talking about, like we're getting into, um, diversifying uh the systems that they're stressing or even the way that they're stressing certain systems.

Um so if someone's seeing if someone's seeing progress, should they just continue with what they're doing, or should they still kind of work in some variety?

Um, you know, but at the same point, like, you know, the if if if things are projecting in the right way and you are enjoying it, you're having fun, like get out of your own way. Like you might not need to make those changes.

Um, but I think still when you're talking about like in the long haul here, you know, variation is going to be key, not just for focus on different energy systems, but again, just being able to stimulate those changes in a various different ways.

So, you know, I I wouldn't say completely get away from it, but you could be probably trying to look at it, okay, how do I tweak things even ever so slightly?

So if you want to take, and for for the simplicity of this conversation, 12 by 400 at the same time, and you know, you're out there and you're trying to run, you know, a five-minute pace and you're knocking off 75 quarters, and now you're done to 74 and you're doing that on 75 seconds rest, you know, maybe the next time you come do that and you're still

trying to hit those same reps, maybe you're just reducing recoveries. And you do your first set of four at 75 seconds, the next set of four at 60 seconds, and trying to see if you can do that last set of four at 45 second recoveries.

Um, you know, I think trying to tweak something that might be very successful for you into still maybe the same energy system you're targeting, but again, a different training stimulus, which hopefully can keep things still exciting on the longer scale of stuff. But you know, I think you'll start getting added benefits by making some of those slight modifications.

Like I love that you just gave someone a kind of framework or some ideas that you implanted where people can just think about even just their their recovery time in between in between reps or sets, where you know that, even just that is is you know presenting some variety um and and some helpful you know uh stressing of the of the system, like you said.

Speaking of, you know, we're talking about um kind of working out different systems. What are these different systems? You know, for for someone who is out of the collegiate world or never was in the collegiate, you know, running world, um, you know, they they just picked up running, you know, as an adult.

They may not have be, you know, well versed in in some of these, some of these terms. But whether you want to name these things or just kind of um talk a little bit more generally to what you mean when you're when you're talking about training the right systems, stressing out certain systems. Um can you can you uh yeah, can you talk to that for a little bit?

Um but I again I think you're trying to talk about like you know, your you know, the the adaptations to your circular circulatory system, you're trying to get your heart stronger, you're trying to, you know, get you know the you know all all the capillary perfusion a little greater across the muscles. Uh almost all of that comes down to oxygen delivery, though.

Um, you know, when you start talking about, you know, you're you you you define the muscles, they can contract a certain way at a certain force output. Um, you know, what is normally our limiting factor uh as a distance runner is you know oxygen.

Um so there's so many different ways to be able to increase that from how quick your heart is going to pump, from how much blood volume is going to be pumped out per beat. Um, but then you're going to talk about how you can, you know, and I always like to make the analogy of like a tree.

And you know, as a tree gets bigger, um, you know, its root system develops. Um, and you know, you're getting more and more roots that are innervating with the ground to be able to soak up all that water. Um, and for us, it's almost the same in return.

You know, we are now developing more and more roots, our capillaries that are innervating with the muscles to be able to deliver that oxygen. Um, but you know, there's all these things that are happening. So as we start talking about your aerobic system, aerobic capacity, you know, how much you know oxygen we can just breathe in.

Um, you know, when you start talking about VO2 max, you're talking about the actual transport of that, you know, and that is you know, the the difference of the oxygen levels between the arteries and veins, like you know, during exercise. And we want to increase that.

So um, you know, a lot of that's going to happen through different types of interval workouts, you know, as a 5k, 10k runner, you know, the the overall again, like oxygen delivery and how strong that aerobic system is is going to be 90% of everything.

Um, but then you know, where you start becoming at that limiting factor is when we start talking about lactate threshold. Um, and that's the point at which your body is going to start producing more lactate than really you can get rid of or that you can tolerate.

Um, so we spend a lot of you know of our training focus on what things that we can do to improve that lactate threshold.

So maybe it becomes originally at like six-minute paces where all of a sudden you have a big spike in the lactate that you can't get rid of and your legs start shutting down and can no longer deliver that oxygen appropriately to your muscles. Okay, what things can I do where maybe that pace starts becoming out 550 pace at 540 pace?

Um, so we start talking about again, like our VO2 max systems, our lactate threshold systems, just our overall aerobic capacity, um, as you know, then you start talking about some of the smaller things that are probably, while important to a 5K, 10K runner, not quite as important, is when you start talking about you know your anaerobic power, just even muscular strength,

all of those, just even your biomechanics, your running form, um, you know, you even just tightness of muscles that are going to be limiting factor and the sheets that surround them.

So it's all of those things, but you know, I think when we start talking about like endurance athletes, we're really talking about like that lactate thrill shrub aerobic capacity is our two main focal points.

I'm assuming that half marathoners, marathoners, you know, uh milers, like everyone here is gonna benefit from kind of thinking about training and programming training in in this kind of way.

But yeah, all of those things um are are gonna play a certain role of you know how we can vary some things and be able to improve all of these energy systems together. And as you, you know, it's focusing so much on the nutrition, is all of this things become completely wasteful if then you're not fueling yourself the right way.

Um, you know, you're trying to make sure you're just like that fine-tuned machine, and then you're giving it the right fuel to operate as efficient as possible.

So, certainly anywhere from even you know 400 runners, um, you know, all the way up to you know, marathon runners are all gonna play into all of this different type of training and energy systems, just at different percentages.

You know, like I know, like you know, you're working with uh closed athletes, they're coming in and you've got goals for their you know their their final year, right?

Their final race, you're you're building, it's a program, you're building these athletes from the time that they start with you, um, even maybe even before uh the season, you know, with with some some blue skyline for the summer or whatever. Um to again, you know, you're looking ahead, you're not looking to just November or December.

Um how long again, back to that original question, how long can this take? What should people have? Um what should people kind of uh understand or respect about the process?

Um, so and I know some of the things you and I were were discussing also, which is volume increases, is okay, like as people are like are, you know, whether you're coming in even as a as a high-level high school athlete about to start their freshman year of college, you're talking about somebody that's just starting to pick up running for the first time, and how

do you go from euro miles a week to 40 miles a week, or somebody that's been an avid 5K runner and now wants to train for marathons, there's going to be a way that you need to safely be able to increase that volume to certainly get you to your goals, but to be able to do so without having to take that time off due to injury.

Um, and I think so many of the best coaches that I've been able to learn from all really deliver that same message that your success is going to come from prolonged consistency. Um, that, you know, again, no matter whether, you know, that's why when you ask me that question, let's try to do that same workout over and over again.

If you can consistently do that without getting hurt for a long period of time, you're probably gonna get very good at it.

Um and I I think when you see it such big spikes at the high school level, um, is when they first start doing like a workout they've never done before, um, but can stay healthy and consistently doing that, you're gonna see another big spike.

And then maybe when they get into college and all of a sudden these new other training stimuluses are introduced for the first time and they can stay healthy and consistently for doing that for whether that's three, four months to get through your first cross-country season or you know, over four years.

Um, I think all of this comes down to is you know, we want to be doing this for a long time. Unless you have like, I want to run one marathon, if that's it, I want to be done for the rest of my life. Um, that's where it can vary from person. But most of the time you're trying to do this for as long as possible.

So it's going to be important that how do we do all this consistently for a long period of time so we can stay healthy? Um and I think that's where some of the stuff is you're gonna find less burnout with your varying stuff, and you're not gonna be over training one system.

Um, and especially with stress-related injuries, being careful with those mileage increases to not make sure that you're not just finding your breaking point by this linear approach to like, okay, I'll keep going up till I feel pain and then I'll stop. Well, it's probably too late at that point.

Like if you have like tangible ideas or or tangible tangible workouts, or I guess maybe like um uh approaches or ideas of kind of uh how to how to make you know fun workouts or how to program some some fun into a training program. Um so we can kind of talk about that briefly.

And then I also I'm curious about like um uh almost like backup, you know, backup uh plans for people or backup workouts for people who um, you know, are they there, they're at the track that day, or they're you know, um they're lacing up, they're about to, you know, they're putting the watch on, um, and they're just either not feeling it or um something's not

feeling right, whatever, whatever that is. Um uh kind of approaching approaching that situation from just like your your general runner, but also um uh what you do for for your clean athletes who may be in in the same boat, um, whether they're I mean for a variety of reasons, you know, they may be in that situation.

Um so the backup thing is is I guess its own kind of discussion point. Um that's an easier one to start with. And then yeah, like I said, maybe um uh kind of your approach to making fun workouts for for your athletes.

Um, you know, and it's just, you know, after the first one, you're just shot. It's like, okay, what can I do here? Becomes like, okay, you can really maybe achieve the same goal that you had, the same, you know, energy system we're trying to stress, but start breaking it up.

You know, maybe maybe it's just like you know, your your mind's elsewhere and you just can't be running for three, four minutes continuously. It's okay, like, how do I, you know, do you know a minute on, 20 seconds rest, another minute on, 20 seconds rest, another minute on, 20 seconds rest, and then take another break.

And you know, that might be a little you know easier to mentally get through, especially when you're by yourself, um, trying to figure out okay, how do I make those adaptations? And um I think our kids, you know, especially when they might have a class conflict or something, have done a really good job of knowing that they have some of that flexibility.

It's like, okay, like here's where I'm at. I know what volume I need to do, I know what like workout we're trying to like, you know, really get after here, but okay, like if I'm out there and I'm struggling with this, you don't want to just continue to run yourself into the ground so much as okay, what things can spark some excitement right then?

Um and I'd say that's where it really can be related to as we start talking about some of these workouts. How can you how can you keep like the mind actively engaged where it's excited? Um we try to talk a lot about you know your your body shutting down when negative thoughts enter the mind.

Um, you know, you it's very rare that we truly do push ourselves to its physical limits. We might think we do all the time, um, but most of the time you don't because your body has its defense mechanisms that are going to prevent you from doing that.

Um, that it's going to like your heart rates start getting too high, your acidity levels and your muscles are starting to get too high. I gotta slow down so I can get restored to that natural state. Um, so we need to almost like trick the mind into thinking like I am okay.

I'm not near the point of you know passing out or causing permanent damage to my body. I can go ahead and keep my heart rate at 200 for you know another four or five minutes. And sometimes by doing that is is what things can get you excited.

Um so if it's in a race, that might be you know picking up a 400-meter rep and hearing you know a split that's a second or two faster, and that becomes excited.

It might be starting to like pass three or four people, and that becomes an exciting thing for you, or it might be something internal to the race, but just a different positive thoughts, whether it's you know, recounting how you felt during your greatest race ever, or you know, something not running related, that you're starting to think of your favorite food, your

favorite show. What are you going to do afterwards? Those like things that cause happiness and excitement because normally your body is going to produce stronger forces when you are the happiest. Um, and and it's you know, I ask that question to my kids all the time, just as hypothetical.

I mean, studies that I got to do in college of where do you produce the most force, like under what emotion?

Um, and and the first thing is anger, um, you know, or or you know, you just you know that and I try to explain to them when everything becomes angered and you're you've got tension in your face, tension in your fist, tension in your shoulders, you normally produce the least amount of force compared to when you can get yourself in those really positive mindsets

that allows the force output to be the greatest where you're trying to use it the most. Um so trying to spark those within workouts, um, maybe that's done through music. Maybe that's when you're now having a team setting and you know, we do a lot of stuff, you know, whether it's fist bumps or you know, being a blue jay here, you know, we do these wings up.

Um, and they really, some of our freshmen came in and started doing that last year.

And, you know, I got I got hooked on it because I knew exactly that was something new for us, but it's really the same as what we might have done 15 years ago um through different chances we passed each other um to again create that positive stimulus as you were trying to again really create like that excitement when maybe things are at the most difficult part,

workout, race, you name it.

Um I really love that you brought that in. I actually didn't expect that you would bring that in. So I think that's uh that was very, very welcome.

Hopefully, people um that like that's one of the takeaways I think that people hopefully take from this conversation is that because like you said, when you're out there, you're you're doing workouts, you know, you're focused on the plan, you you know it's really easy to get dialed in, right? A lot of runners are these type A, very focused, very goal-driven people.

Um and you know, you're you're one second off the the pace mark, and you know, you you you failed, right? Or or you don't have it today, or you might as well just throw in the towel. You can get really negative really quickly, really easily.

Um so I love again, I love that you just brought in that that um that part to you know to uh to to training and and to performance development as well. Um on on what I just said, actually, I'm curious.

Um let's say someone is you know do doing some intervals or or doing some pacework, and and they really are like you know, uh you know, one second if you're doing you know some some marathon pacework versus one second when you're doing a four-minute interval, it's a very different situation.

But let's say someone is the equivalent of you know one or two seconds off some 400-meter pacework, wherever, you know, apply that to whatever uh other kind of workouts you're doing. Um when does someone want, or when do you recommend, and maybe that's a straightforward answer, that someone does kind of think about changing it up?

Like you said, okay, you can't do the thousands today for X, Y, or Z reason, let's break it up. Um, what is that when you can't do the 1000? Are you are we talking that they just can't hit, you know, they're within one second of the interval, you know, um uh pace and then they and they can't really hit it.

Um, and therefore clearly the system uh you know we need to kind of uh change things up a little bit. Um or is it is there like a time? Is it like oh they're five seconds and and you know, clearly um they're they they're not up for that workout today. Um or is it a more mental thing? What what is the marker or the measurement there?

We might go out there one day, but maybe like they haven't cut the grass in like a week and a half, and like everyone's running slower times because the grass is thicker. I mean, that that's not something we all of a sudden want to start changing things up, right? Hey, this workout sucks. We're just like not hitting our paces.

Maybe it's you know something we did the day before, maybe it's you know, just you know, haven't completely recovered from something, or or again, maybe just the wind's picking up and you know, or the the the your whole pack that you're running with might be off.

And I think what there's a difference between when you start seeing like a regression of stuff, or if you're maybe able to maintain that consistency and now you're running five seconds slower, but you know, we're doing that consistency. I wouldn't be ready to make any changes at that point. It's like, okay, here's where we're at.

Let's try to find ways to continue to get excited about this goal. And you know, a lot of it is just reframing the mindset.

Um, and try to tell them, you know, the day that you're out there and you are nailing every single pace and you're feeling the best you ever have, that might be the day you're getting the least out of compared to the day where it's a struggle to hit that pace, but you're still working hard, and you know, maybe you're working a little harder that day to hit a

certain pace, your body might be you know taxed a little harder and being broken down and stressed, and therefore it has to now go through, you know, maybe a greater adaptation phase to you know is stimulated by those days that you know didn't go well.

So when you can think about it that way, wow, like these days I'm really struggling today, and be thinking, wow, I'm getting a lot more out of it today than because I'm struggling. Um, you know, sometimes that can be really helpful in getting through the workout and getting to that next stage.

I'm curious about the um about like the the tangible workouts maybe that that you you know quote unquote know to be fun or that you program into your uh you know the the month coming up or months coming up or the week coming up um because again you know them to be fun or you know they're uh they're they're um I don't know like your your athlete's most

loved workouts or something like that. Um I'm curious if you have if you have kind of examples of of those for uh some of the uh some of the athletes that you've worked with or just like again that you've gained through all your experience.

You know, we did a workout last year where you know pretty much everything was you know probably around their 5k pace, um, then kind of right at the end starting to progress stuff, but then we ran you know an all-out 800 at the end.

Um, some of our guys ran their 800 PR on that, and some kids broke two minutes for the first time ever, and that was something they just got really hyped or excited about.

Um, we we do a mile cut-down workout every fall, which I know is kind of a staple among some other programs as well, where you know the goal kind of is not necessarily how fast am I going to finish up this day, but how many am I gonna get through? Um, where we're starting closer to our threshold pace and trying to always run six to eight seconds faster.

If you can't do it on your third rep, like that's it.

Um, you know, but if you can keep that going and we're trying to hit five, six repeats, constantly taking off six to eight seconds, you know, again, we had you know some of our athletes that again were hitting close to their mile PR on a fifth or sixth rep coming in that they didn't think they could even run one mile at that pace, you know, maybe six months

prior, but just really excited as you know, and now we normally do with like four to five minute recoveries before we're kind of coming back. So the model cut down is one we did uh, you know, if anybody wants to watch or probably has seen like our workout Wednesday session we did with Flow Track a couple of years ago.

Um, that was like our mystery like rep workout where we're either gonna do thousands or fifteen hundreds, and obviously you need you know somebody there to kind of cue in what's gonna happen, but I never would tell our athletes whether we were gonna run.

That was gonna be a thousand-meter rep or 1500 meter rep, so about 990 meters into it, and I'd be standing there at the end of that thousand meter loop, and like, all right, that's it, we're done. That's the 1k rep, or nope, you got to add on another 500 meters.

And if I did tell them that, they knew they actually had to grind out and pick the pace up a little more to accelerate and try to drop, you know, another five seconds per mile pace for that last 500.

So um, you know, that that was a fun workout that we've done a few times, certainly like you know, the you know, any sort of like even like for the people that I have training by themselves of the latter type threshold workouts where we might be doing like three minutes, six minutes, nine minutes, twelve minutes, um, and come back down to three and trying to you

know be able to maintain that same pace as we're adding reps, or we're kind of coming down and as we keep dropping, like doing something like a 10, 8, 6, 4 threshold stuff, but trying to drop like three, four seconds as the reps are getting shorter.

Um, you know, that's been a workout that I've tried to utilize with a lot of our people individually, and then you know, and then trying to always like take whatever workout are that you might be doing or longer reps and trying to then sometimes it gets fun by just people like to run fast, so give them that opportunity to open stuff up.

Um, so even if we're doing like you know, 15-minute threshold segments, but at the end of every one, or maybe right in the middle of one, take 30 seconds and try to like really pick it up and attack for 30 seconds, drop down to your mile pace even for 30 seconds, and then just ease back into your threshold pace.

Um, you know, I do that a lot with the people that uh coaching online that I know they're gonna be by themselves, where it keeps them constantly waiting for that to, you know, whether it's preset in their watch, okay, when that beeps, I know and it comes back to this.

You're waiting for when am I going to pick it up, not how long do how much longer do I have, and you're constantly looking at your watch and you're like, oh man, I got another two minutes, another minute.

Like, you know, sometimes that becomes really dreadful thinking, how much longer do I need to sustain this pace rather than thinking about okay, when is it the part where I'm going to pick it up? Um I can again just spark a little more positive excitement.

So I did that, and then always just playing around with the recoveries, like you know, we gave that example before, whether it's for 400 repeats, but you can do that on anything from longer threshold workout, um, you know, to again just constantly trying to like vary the recoveries and trying to really shorten the recoveries um before you can really kind of worry

about trying to then attack and adjust the pace. So um I I would just my my recommendation for anybody is keep trying to vary stuff, vary paces, vary recoveries, knowing what you know overall energy system you're really trying to target that day. And there's a lot of wiggle room to kind of be creative.

And you know, I I try to really listen and and and hear whether it's somebody I'm coaching individually or my team setting to try to tell them, like, okay, like what ideas do you have? How do you want to put things together here? Um, and trying to keep things fun and exciting.

And I I love that we're we're gonna kind of end with that because um, and this isn't to get sales or anything, but you know, a lot of runners, um, especially, you know, just your um again, your your runners who are who are aren't necessarily competitive at the collegiate level or obviously, you know, sub-lead or anything like that, um may not know, right?

May not know how to do that, how to how to diversify their workouts, you know. It can it can get really um uh well one, really challenging, of course, but also really uh risky, right?

They might feel like that it's it's too risky to uh diversify their workouts and diversify their training in the way that you're kind of calling to uh or calling for them to do. And I just feel like that is a key reason for um and and and a really key, um hopefully like motivating factor for people to look into getting a coach, right? Um for that reason.

If you're feeling like, hey, if you're if you've been at this for years and you're feeling stuck, you're feeling static, you're just kind of consistently getting into ruts, um, maybe maybe it is time to uh find yourself uh a coach. Maybe check in with Coach Bobby here. Um because maybe it is something, maybe you do need some variety, right?

You need to kind of um work at that training cycle, um, go about marathon training, whatever it case, you know, whatever you're doing a little differently. And maybe it is as simple as um just doing different workouts, right? Once or twice a week, uh that's what you're doing.

Um, but again, you may not know how to do that in a way that's still consistent to where you're at with your training. Is it gonna progress you in a way that that weaker you know mini cycle should be progressing you? Um, and again, I think that's where a coach can come in. I'm gonna, you know, uh guess that you that you agree, Coach Bobby.

If I ever want to like start trying to get back into training and I'm want to prepare for a certain race, I'm I'm normally reaching out to a colleague or asking, like, okay, like, I mean, di different friends of mine and coaches of, hey, like, well, you train me. And they're, you know, first of all, why do you need a coach?

It's like, well, I need somebody to like give me something different than I already know that I can also then report back to and let them, okay, here's how I felt today.

I still even reach back to my high school friend of you know that I trained with that's never been a coach, it's just like, hey, like, here's what I did today, and then he can kind of give me his feedback on a workout and say, hey, maybe you should try this next time. Okay, I haven't done that. Let's let's do that.

So the more organization, accountability, structure, it can be really helpful to have the coach to kind of really help guide you through all of this and keep things engaged.

I mean, of course we do, but it's really just because I I I think that um you're gonna get the most out of your running career, and I think get further along, um, not even so much quicker, but I think healthier and uh in a more fun kind of like oh wow, I'm enjoying this process kind of way.

Um with with, like you said, the accountability that a coach provides, the the uh support that a coach provides. Um and then of course the the flexibility that uh you know a coach and and working with a coach to kind of program your your training can offer.

Um so with that, uh Coach Bobby, how can people get a hold of you if they want to chat with you to see if you're right for them? Um and then also uh if if you can um what are the like distance ranges that you uh mostly work with? Maybe it's kind of like across the gamut, I'm not sure.

You can browse through any coaches, there's matching features there, so it doesn't necessarily have to be about me, but certainly you can schedule a consultation with me or any of the coaches directly from the Run Doyen website. So uh I don't know if you you can put that link up there, and um, but that's probably the best way.

I think that you'll you'll find those that specialized in marathon runners, but you know, for me it's it's really anybody from like 800 on up to through the marathon um that I would work with.

But again, uh I I keep a pretty small client base, so I can really just make sure I'm giving them the attention they need while really maintaining you know everything that they need to with my you know job as a coach here at Johns Hopkins is my primary job. Of course.

Just say browse once, and if you feel there's a good fit or you just want to chat, you got the opportunity to just schedule a consultation and jump on a Zoom call and have that conversation. It's been a great tool that Rondo Wayne has put together.

We don't know when that is, you'll have a busy time ahead, but uh we'll figure it out and we'll uh I think one of the things we're gonna talk about um, if not today, next time, might be uh building up mileage, how to how to kind of do that uh the um slowly. Yeah, how to how basically how to do it effectively, smartly, that sort of thing.

So we'll see if it's that topic or another one. Um but Coach Bobby, great to chat with you. Uh again, if you're here, you can get in contact with him via rundoing.com. You can browse coaches there. Um you can also uh, as you said, schedule a consult with him to see if Coach Bobby might be right for you.

Coach Bobby, with appreciation, thank you so much for this chat today. Enjoy the rest of your day, sir, and uh we'll see you around.

And so I plan on employing some of those tips that Coach Bobby gave to help myself, not only physically, but also mentally as I dive deeper into my own training. Now, I'd like to spill a minute of your time to ask you to rate our podcast today.

If you've enjoyed the podcast and haven't given us a rating on your podcast platform of choice, we would appreciate you taking the time to do that today. Thanks for tagging along with us, and until next time, have a great run. Thank you for joining us here on the next level running podcast. Your source for training advice from the expert coaches at Rundoya.

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