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Russia wants to show there is an alternative to a world run on the West's terms.
The Bricks State stands united in their support for intensifying cooperation in the global arena based on the key principles of the UN Charter, and jointly strive to contribute in every possible way to the formation of a fair, multipolar world order with the decisive participation of the countries of the Global South and East in the systems of international governance.
The Brick Summit in Kazan is Putin's attempt to show that Russia is not alone. The Kremlin build it as one of the largest scale foreign policy events ever, and African countries are playing a key role.
Bricks is an inclusive formation, but has the ability to change the trajectory of the Global South. To do this, we must realize the food potential of our economic partnership to ensure sustainable development for all and not just for some.
On this week's Next Africa Podcast, we'll ask what Russia needs from Africa and what the region wants in return. Is Russia an important ally or simply a way to show the rest of the world at the West isn't the only game in town. I'm Jennifer's Abasaja and this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story each week from the continent driving the future of global growth
with the context only Bloomberg can provide. Joining me to discuss Russia's relationship with Africa this week our Bloomberg Senior reporter Henry Meyer and stembile Sele, Bloomberg's Government and eco reporter based here in Johannesburg. Hello to both of you. Thanks for joining us on the podcast. Henry, let's just start with you, Baby goes a background on BRICKS and what exactly was on the agenda for the summit this week.
So, this is an organization which was founded about fifteen years ago by Russia, China, India and Brazil, and then it took in South Africa in twenty and ten and became BRICKS. It's essentially an organization which includes developing countries and seen by some of its members, particularly Russia and China, as an alternative to the US led world order. This is not a view which is widely shared by the
other members. And this meeting that took place in Russia is the first time that the organization has met since it expanded to take in four new members. Those members are Ethiopia and Egypt, two new African countries, and Iran and the United Arab Emirates. In terms of what was on the agenda, obviously a part of their agenda is trying to increase the role of developing countries, particularly in the world's international financial architecture, develop economic ties between themselves
and reduce the use of the US dollar. And also they are looking at the issue of whether they are ready to expand further.
It's telling too, Henry, I mean the location of this the backdrop of what's happening geopolitically. When you think about a lot of those agenda items, What if anything do we know did they achieve at the summit.
Well, the mere fact of the summit taking place at all is certainly by Russia seen as a major achievement. As you mentioned the geopolitical scenario, Russia is obviously under unprecedented sanctions and the West is trying to isolate it over its invasion of Ukraine. In total, more than thirty leaders attended this meeting. This includes countries which want to join, as well as the nine members. We don't have so
far any tangible results from the summit. We do believe, however, that approximately a dozen countries will be invited to become observer members so not full membership, but maybe it's a halfway house.
And what's interesting to Henry about this, we have a few Bloomberg Economics intelligence reports about how the expanding block doesn't necessarily mean that all of these different countries are going to be having the same relationship, right, the same bilateral relationship. But if we just take one of those China's relationship with South Africa. With Africa, we know a lot of that has come with checkbooks, has been about infrastructure.
But when we think about Russia as the host of this year's summit, what do we know about Russia's relations with some of the other countries that are in the BRUX membership.
If we so specifically about Africa, then obviously China's approaches, as you mentioned, is quite different. It's much more based on financial and economic ties. Obviously the level of trade, it's very interesting the Russian trade with Africa is very small.
It's only twenty five billion dollars a year versus more than two hundred and eighty billion for China and the Russian approach, I would characterize it as developing ties with Africa on the cheap, if you're like A lot of it is to do with diplomatic benefits for African countries and also security ties, and particularly with countries where military
rulers have taken over. This is the case in the Sahel in Western Africa, and this is I think the approach that Russia has yielded real benefits for them.
At the UN.
There have been African countries which have not backed votes condemning Russia for its invasion of Ukraine, and it allowed Russia also to counter the isolation that the West has been trying to impose on it.
And one of those countries that have taken a bit of a neutral stance is South Africa's Tambile, if you can join in on this. Obviously, a key part of the Bricks was the host last year for the summit. How would you characterize South Africa's relationship with Russia right now?
I think it is from a foreign policy perspective, one which in the first instance is historical, and that certainly came into play what last year's Brick summits and the negotiations around having the President of Russia Nott come unless t be arrested on that warrant of arrest from international criminal courts. But in terms of trade it is actually very limited. A trade that happens between the two countries
are not significant in that sense. I think the approach to Russia is similar to the approach of countries in general for South Africa, which is, we are dealing from an aspect of national interest, what can we get out of this now? And South Africa has pushed really hard to be seen as being part of the revival of the so called non allied movement, where there is not neutrality but a position which says we're not going to
get involved in every fact that you're involved with. Our allegiance and should be tested in that way and we should not be seen as taking.
The side or that sign.
We should be doing what we believe to be right, what is compliant with the international rule of law, and what is in our national interest economically and otherwise. And so I think that's position. Even if you look at the inputs that President rama Porta has been making.
He's been pushing that idea of this is where we're at now.
In terms of this coalition government that we've got going, and this is what we want to see in terms of the international order, and that is very much a form of multilateral institutions.
They need to be fair.
There needs to be a representation of the globe of South at these forums and they need to be heard in terms of what the interests saw and what the priorities are of countries in that region. I think that's the main push. We need to say, that's how we are engaging, That's not Africa, what is in this for us?
And what is the structure of the international order?
In the stare and non aligned was the right word. Thank you for using that stambula on the agenda this week. There were plans to try to expand the Bricks Group. We mentioned how last year that was part of the summit, but South Africa has been pretty vocal in their own stance in terms of expanding it out. Well, all the Bricks countries really have been stimuli What is the resistance to adding some of the countries that have been floated into the Bricks block from South Africa?
So I think there's definitely a division work in Bricks on a number of levels. It's not as clear cutter as what the president of Russia, what have you believed? This is not a huge moment where everyone is at the table and they're all, you know, saying kumbaya, I'm agreeing with each other.
There are some very real differences.
I mean, if you're looking at some of the divisions, it might be along If you look at the founding members Brazil, India and South Africa, they have a very different worldview in general to Russia and China in terms of some of the purchase that they have to masters. And so they, for instance, are democratic countries. They are not interested in bricks being a counter to the West. They are interested simply an increasing representation in international order.
And so I think that's where there is a difference.
Russia at chime I might want to be using the bricks flock to further their own interests, to further their own placement in the world, to say, you know what, we have brains that we have allies, and these three countries in particular are saying, you know, this is more complicated than that, and we can take a step back and see what is it that you are actually wanting to achieve.
Stick with us Henry and Stambilay when we come back, we'll look at what impact Russia has already had on the continent and what African leaders potentially want to get out of this relationship. Welcome back today on the podcast, we're discussing Russia's relationship with Africa that as the Bricks Summit ends in Kazan, Henry talk to us maybe about
where Russia has had the most influence in Africa. Stambila really laid out there a lot of the differing relationships that members of the Block have had, but maybe talk to us from the perspective of the Russian state.
Yes, the major Russian influence is in West Africa, in Sahel region, where you have a big problem with Jahadda's violence, and this has given Russia an opening to start providing security services. This began in twenty eighteen in the Central African Republic when Russian mercenaries arrived at the invitation of the president. Three years later they started to work in Mali and this now has now accelerated this year. In both Burkina Fassa and Niger. You have a Russian military presence.
In addition to those countries, I would also mention a couple of other countries where Russia does have.
A strong presence.
Libya also a military presence in the east of the country where Russia is allied to the Eastern Bay strongman Halifa Haftar. Sudan, Russia is supporting power military forces which are fighting the military rulers in Hartu. And then you have other countries like Zimbabwe and of course South Africa where you have these historic links because of Soviet support for liberation movements.
We're clearly seeing this sort of tug of war for influence and for partnership to a certain extent on the continent.
I mean, Stembile, can you talk.
To us about maybe the perspective of African leaders And I know you can't speak for all of them, but what is the benefit for them to be mentioned non alignment to look to countries like Russia, like China. Is it just wanting to send that message that they are open to any and all partners or have we heard from them that there's something else at play here?
Yeah, so definitely don't speak for all of them, Thank you for that.
But so Bloomberg Economy News had a really interesting piece about this concept of geopolitical neutrality, how not picking side is paying off for certain countries, and so previously it would be so easy to say this country is allowed at the side of the world, and so this is
how they'revoked certain things going forward. I think with the Russian's invasion of Ukraine, that was a significant shift, even if you look at the u END votes and how African countries voted in or even unexpected against it, or a large number of them choosing to abstain altogether. And I think that was the first significant shift to say, there is a different occurrence that's happening, and we can't really interpret or read things through the same lens that
we had historically. Countries are asserting themselves. They have a level of agency that they are trying to put out there into the world, and so that happens in different ways coming on board or allowing the lights of China and Russia to come on board. There's the security issues that Heny has spoken through, but there's also economic issues to US and to South Africa and those that are supporting it in their very form reform of international institutions.
One of the issue rights is access to funding and how the developing countries are being left out for the bar is so high for them to get access to the funding that they need to develop.
And so when.
Someone like a Russia or a China comes in, of course you can this pass the merits of the conditions of their funding. If I need to grow my economy today and someone is offering something, I'm.
Going to go for it. I'm going to do what in my national interests at this particular point. And so I think there's a.
Lot of banamafit playing growing autonomy in the region to say how can we do things differently, how can we do things on our term? And obviously there's a whole lot of other stuff at play in the background. These countries are not benevolent factors that aren't doing with out of the goodness of their hearts. They have their own interests at play as well. But what Russia and China would like to do with the bricks club, that is
an zogle of that right. So they come to Africa and it's not just them, there's bull countries as well. They have ulterior momm and I think African countries the leaders are time to figure out, well, what can we get out of it? You want this only? This is what I want to achieve what is the middle ground, and hardly we go about doing that. So I think
things are becoming more complicated. The proxy or that we've seen shifted, power has shifted in terms of the global order, and everyone is just facally time to establish their place in this and how to get the most outlaw themselves going.
Forward, absolutely a new multipole world and I wonder, Henry, what is next to pay attention to with this block and with these multiple forces in this new world order?
What would you say is sort of key to watch well?
I think as far as bricks is concerned, it's the degree to which they're going to manage to cooperate economically and increase trade. A lot of the trade within bricks is between China and the other countries. The other intra bricks trade isn't that significant. The other issue is, of course the use of the US dollar, and this is something that Russia, because of the sanctions that have been imposed on it over its invasion of Ukraine, is especially
keen to promote. There is obviously interest in that among bricks countries, but they have a different perspective. I think they're looking for an alternative to their ties with the West, but they're not looking to replace them fully, whereas Russia is completely frozen.
Out of ties with the West.
So I think we will see that trend develop, but certainly not as fast or as deeply as Russia would like to see.
And you can read more on our coverage of the Brick Summit across Bloomberg News platforms. Here's a few other stories we're watching in the region. This week, Nigerian President Bola Tinubu announced an overhaul of his cabinet, firing five ministers in the first such shakeup since he took office
in May of twenty twenty three. Tinubu dropped the Minister of Women Affairs, Tourism, Education, Housing and Urban Development, as well as the Minister of Youth Development and South Africa plans to ease visa rules for visitors from India and China within days to lure tourists from the world's two most populated nations who have been deterred by red tape. Unlike travelers from many Western nations, Indian and Chinese tourists
need pre authorization, which could put off visitors. And you can follow these stories across Bloomberg platforms, including the next African newsletter. We'll put a link to that in the show notes. This program was produced by Adrian Bradley. Don't forget to follow and review the show wherever you usually get your podcasts. I'm Jennifer's Abasaga. Thanks as always for listening.