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When the going gets tough, the tough must get going, especially when lead has become misleaders and men has become tormentos. When fredom of expression becomes the target of suppression, opposition becomes our position.
That was the sound of Bobby Wyne's twenty sixteen hit Setuka. In it, he sings the lines when the going gets tough, the tough must get going, especially when leaders become misleaders and mentors become tormentors. It's the sort of political conviction that has come to define the controversial musician turned activists public life for decades now, and even prompted him to run for the country's highest office in both twenty twenty one and twenty twenty six.
We know that when the people have Uganda rise to the occasion and demand for what is right, they will get it. This has happened in Madagascait, as upened in Soudan, it is happening in Iran, and it definitely can happen in Uganda.
It's a fascinating story and one that's scripped people around the world. Everyone from members of the band Coldplay to world leaders have spoken out about the situation in Uganda, and that's why I wanted to follow up with Bobby Wine himself to understand his side of the story. Now that it's been just a few months since the election
and just after the inauguration of President Musevane. You'll hear my conversation with Wine in just a minute, But first, for anyone unfamiliar with his story, Bobby Wine, his real name is Robert Chagulani Sisatamu, has become a major part of Uganda's national story, christening himself the quote ghetto President, He's disrupted the country's politics after entering the field a decade ago. In that time, he's also been imprisoned and
faced several criminal charges. Right now, Wine isn't hiding fearing for his life after a disputed presidential election in January, following what he says he knew he had become a target.
I think all of you, fellow Ghanan Suaf, concealed and protected me for all this time when the regime was looking for me. Those of you who fed me, those who clothed me, and those who offered me shelta.
I will not mention your names, but God.
Bless you so On today's podcast, we'll get the thoughts of Bobby Wine himself on why his political perspectives have so engaged young voters in Uganda, his relationship with the current administration, and really what's next for him. Now. I'm Jennifer's Abasaja and this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story each week from the continent, driving the future of global growth with the context only Bloomberg can provide.
A few days ago, I was able to speak to Bobby Wine, leader of the opposition, currently hiding outside of the country. According to Wine, his party won the twenty twenty six Ugandan elections. During our conversation, Bobby talked me through his version of events following January's election. I started by asking what he thinks about the recent passing of a law in Uganda which will impose harsh penalties on those receiving foreign funds without clearance from the government.
The Huganan government is known for enacting laws targeting individuals. A short while ago, they enacted a law called Public Order Management Act targeting the former opposition leader, doctor tizabsi Je, restricting people to meet without the clearance of the police. Now they've enacted this law targeting myself and other forces of change, all other dissidents that are not in the country,
trying to cob political engagements outside the country. After cutting off all funds that is legally unconstrumrationally allocated to the opposition, now they're trying to incapacitate the opposition by stopping any
funding unless it goes through the minister. In this law, I must also mention that it is provided that any Uganan that leaves the country is referred to as a foreigner, and the Uganans that are living outside the country that send money back home to the people, the people that receive that money are regarded to as agents of foreigners. This is meant to cut down all funding, to incapacitate
the opposition and to maintain regime survival. It is one of those embarrassing laws that are used by tyrants, by authoritative leaders to ensure that they incapacitate the opposition.
How do you sustain a party then, if this is in fact the law now of the country.
Well, we were told by Martin Luther King that when a law is unjust, it is not only right to disobey or to break that law, but it becomes a moral duty to break that law. So it will become a moral duty for Uganans to creative to creatively break that law. Of course, it's going to be challenged in court. But because the judicial system is also in the pocket of Jeromo SEVENI, the Uganan dictator, you know, there's no
hope even in the law. The only option by Uganans is to ensure that they remove that regime so that we can be able to repeal all those oppressive laws.
Bobby, can you talk to us a little bit about the time after the elections which you and your party have have disputed the final results. What can you tell us about that time for.
You well to bring the world to speed.
I was a presidential candidate and I won the election in Uganda, although the electoral Commission, which is appointed by General Museveni declared mussevene without showing any results, and up to now the Electoral Commission in Uganda.
Has failed to upload the results.
So General mu sevene was declared winner without any results that were provided.
But not only that, we went into that.
Election with the internet completely switched off, with the opposition leaders all abducted and held in prison, including my three deputy presidents. One of them is still in prison being charged for terrorism after the military attacked his house and shot and killed ten people in his house. Immediately after my wife and I cast our ballot, we were placed under house arrest. The day after we were raided, I escaped from my house, although my wife was brutally tortured.
I remained in hiding as I was pursued by the military for close to two months until I was able to escape my country. Now I'm in the United States, having run out of my country, being pursued not privately by publically by the Chief of Defense Forces, who is the son of the President.
And here we are now.
The world should note that MUSSEVENI has been in power for forty years. He took over power in nineteen eighty six and is still in power today.
How were you able to escape, Barbi.
Well, I should say, by the grace of God and by the assistance of many Ugandans who shielded me and protected me from danger. And these Ugandans include many security officers and people in security angles that gave me the information that I needed to keep safe until I was able to leave the country.
Still thilly, so that security within the administration that you're saying so ported you leaving the country.
True, many individuals in the police and in the military disagree with the way our country has been run because our country has been reduced to a family property where seven is the president, his wife is a minister for education, his son is the chief of defense forces, and largely his brother controls the biggest budget, and all the institutions
of state are controlled by one family. Many Ugannans disagree with the way our country is being run down, and therefore they silently sighed and sympathize with those that are fighting for change.
In the past, Bobby, you've pushed for international aid cuts in an effort to what you say, not support oppression. Are you calling for that now?
Absolutely.
We are calling for targeted sanctions against those individuals that abuse rights, that subvert democracy and the rule of law. We have seen the United States and many other countries sanctioning those that violate human rights. The most recent is the former president of Congo. However, in Uganda, they're not hiding it. In Uganda, people get killed and there's a
boast to it. The son of General Museveni tortures people live on Twitter, for example, my personal bodyguard was abducted by him and tortured, and he tweeted and continued to tweet his naked pictures. Women erept they're raided, their strip naked, their dignity is violated under It is not being done
in hiding. It is being done, you know publically. One of the tweets, the chief of Defense Forces in Uganda admitted to killing twenty three of the members of my party and was praying that I'm the twenty fourth dead body on his hands.
So this and many others I thought.
As opposed to evoke the moral conscience of the morrow world, the free world, not to be part of this. For many decades, the United States has been funding the regime in Uganda up to the tune of one billion US dollars annually. We are calling for the United States to either cut these funds or to put conditions of respect for democrats, a human rights, and the rule of law to these fundings, or else they will come off like partners in crime.
Stick with us.
We're going to take a quick break. In a moment. We'll hear from our senior editor for Europe, Middle East and Africa on the news desk at David Malinga to get his thoughts on Bobby Wyne's current situation. We'll be right back. Welcome back. We are going to talk a bit more about Bobby Wine and the current political context of Yugan in politics. And joining me now is our senior editor for Your Middle East in Africa on the
news desk, David Malinga. We've just heard from Bobby Wine himself about his now decade long story in terms of Ugan in politics. But what's the latest in terms of the political situation in Uganda that listeners might need to know and also the current attitude towards him from the administration.
Well, when the president was sworn in his speech, he congregulated everyone who participated in the election, including the opposition parties. But when it came to Bobby Wayne's party, nope, he said that they were acting in controversion of the law. So for as far as he's he feels like and you know, the government his regime feels like Bobby Wine
was acting out of the law. I think he was referring to some of the things Bobby Wine did free election when he told his supporters when you come out and vote, try and protect and guard the vote as well, don't just your vote and Galway and you know, think it's all going to be all right. So I think from seventy he interpreted that as Bobby Wine inciting, and
we saw that the regime responded in overwhelming measure. And as you know, after the election, Bobby Wine was contained to his home and his family before he managed to slip out and later fled the country.
Which is something the administration is looking into themselves. I wonder when we look at the popularity of Bobby Wine, how would you say the popularities are split up? Is it young people supporting Wine? Who are his supporters?
I mean, historically you would say it is split for the ruling party between the match older people who have been supporters of President Mussevini from way back, and also these are most of the people who stay up country and in the villages, and then for Bobby Wyan, it would be more young people and people who are living in the urban areas. That is kind of the historical split. But it's a bit checker, to be honest. Bobo Wyne's
story is quite a remarkable one. I mean, he came up and against all odds going into politics, and he made a name for himself even before getting into politics as a musician, and he had businesses. He was running and was doing well and then got into politics. So many of the young people he grew up with in his generation identified with him, and he still has a big chunk of that constituency.
I want to ask you really quickly where the country finds itself, because it's about become an oil producer. The country is somewhat growing, maybe not at the levels that it should be. Where would you say that the country is at.
If you look at you know, the economy now it's expected to grow. Yugan is one of the countries that has managed to keep its inflation red at bay. It's a little bit slower than some of its peers. That's partly because some of the step of foods, you know, like the bananas, are not important, which means that you at least have a small relief in terms of that
important inflation. I mean, the currents they could have probably been much worse were it not to be that the central bank at least has a little bit of firepower to regulate.
David, maybe, just lastly, what is it that you're looking for next? Just back to my conversation with Bobby, he is defiant in continuing to push his own agenda forward. What are you watching for now that we do have a new term for President mus seventy and yet his biggest challenger still on the international stage really condemning them.
I think the country is at crossroads now. It's going to be a really important term this next five years because it's getting into a political transition where it has
to start preparing for change in leadership. So it's inevitable that conversation will happen about you know what happens after seven and who has been in power for more than forty years and in there the transformation is going to be the economic one, Like you said, when Uganda starts producing oil and this revenue starts coming in, it's going to be important how this money is managed and how that is going to help ship the fortunes of the country.
No one else better I'd rather talk to you about this. Thank you so much for being on the podcast with us this week. Is David Malinga, our senior editor for Your Middle East and Africa on the news desk, and you can read more of our reporting about to Bobby Wine and of course Uganda across Bloomberg platforms. Now here's some of the other stories we've been following across the
region this week. Shipping traffic in the Strait of Hormuz remained at a standstill, with oil rising after US President Donald Trump rejected Iran's latest offer and suggested the ceasefire in their war may not hold. Trump stopped short of signaling the US would resume military attacks as he previously threatened, and said reaching a diplomatic solution is quote very possible.
And Orange plans to double its solar powered based stations across Africa as the fallout from the Iran war makes renewable energy investments more attractive, its CEO, Christelle Hedemann said in an interview in Nairobi. Rising fuel prices because of the war in Iran and a lack of reliable power in parts of the continent make the switch vital for the company. You can follow these stories across blue Umberg platforms, including the Next African Newsletter. Will put a link to
that in the show notes. This program was produced by Adriane Bradley and tia Adebayo. Don't forget to follow and review this show wherever you usually get your podcasts, but for now I'm Jennifer's Abistanja. Thanks, as always for listening.