Epstein Files: New Pictures Appear to Show Andrew

This BBC Podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. If journalism is the first draft of history, what happens if that draft is flawed? In 1999, four Russian apartment buildings were bombed, hundreds killed. But even now, we still don't know for sure who did it. It's a mystery that sparked chilling theory. I'm Helena Merriman, and in a new BBC series, I'm talking to the reporters who first covered this story. What did they miss the first time? The History Bureau. Putin and the apartment bombs.

Listen on bbc dot com or wherever you get your podcasts.

We can keep ourselves occupied this afternoon on Saturday's newscast with a quiz,'cause in a moment we are going to talk about this huge Nother Cash. treasure trove for journalists of emails, documents, images, photographs of the Epstein files that were released yet yet late yesterday. And in a second we'll be talking about that with the help of our correspondent, our colleague in Washington, Gary O'Neill.

But I do have a quiz for you. I love a quiz. Unrehearsed only. Unrehearsed only. Okay. The Prime Minister's been in China this week and in Japan today, we know. Um and as is the often the case with these things. There's a sort of diplomatic politis of basic you get a present, right? So what did Keir Samar give to President Xi Jinping this week? He gave him a football signed by Manchester United team which beat his own team that he supports which I think is the

You're absolutely right. And it was a match that the Prime Minister was at. So who knows? Who asked did he did he himself at the end say, Can I get the ball, please, mate? Or did one of his staffers think it was a good idea? But yeah, I suppose you get a point for that. Um what was the reverse? Present. Well I love this answer because I know this answer as well. It's three different types of flute.

Wrong Wrong, wrong, wrong Oh no. So you're correct that there was the exchange of gifts which included three different kinds of flute, because the Prime Minister Kirstarmer did play the flute. But the flute was given to him by the Chinese premier Li Quan. Okay. So my question again. Is what did President She give Kirstamer?

Who does she think she is? No, did uh did she give did President Xi give him the uh S Shakespeare in Chinese? No. I don't know then. One more guess. Um a small for curios on on the mantelpiece. Well it is something that could go on a mantelpiece possibly, although I'm not sure how big it was. He gave him a copper horse. Oh, I did actually see that and I just forgot. And why did he give him a copper horse? Because you could never have enough copper horses. No, because it's the year of the horse.

Well maybe Lady of Vic Victoria will like that because she's a big fan of the old G Ges. So who knows? Will it go into the flat in Downing Street and perhaps go on the mantelpiece above number eleven, in fact? Or uh maybe it will go into some sort of archive, who knows? But that is the uh conclusion of our Prime Ministerial and Presidential Gift quiz. January 2026.

Newscast from the BBC. Fat Boy Slim and me in the classroom doing our violin lessons. I was the tattletale in the classroom. Can I have an apology, please? I trust almost nobody. Next time in Moscow. I feel the Lulu with no Sululu. Take me down to Downy Street. Let's go have a tour. Hey, it's Laura in the studio. Hello, it's Paddy in the studio.

And in a second we'll be speaking to Gary O'Donohue about the his huge dump of files that emerged late yesterday from Jeffrey Epstein. three million pages of documents and a hundred and eighty thousand images. And we should say, as we record just before two o'clock on Saturday, that there are still journalists on both sides of the Atlantic, probably right around the world, beavering away, looking through of these documents. So we do not yet have a complete picture.

of what the most important nuggets are, but we do, do we not, Paddy, have a huge set of headlines emerging from these papers. Well yes, because one of the words you've just used is picture. Yeah. So the emails are damning. That d they do not in themselves contain proof of wrongdoing. They are damning in the public the jury of public opinion. But there are also pictures which have caused a great deal of consternation, one of them showing Andrew Mountbatten Windsor on all apparently

on all fours over a woman lying on the floor. And I think there will be many women around the world who see that image and feel Quite upset. Um, who feel sick to the stomach about seeing that image. Um you can't imagine what the

families and indeed the victims of Epstein will feel seeing that image. You can't imagine also what friends and family also of Andrew Mountbatten Windsor will say feel seeing that image. As you say, that doesn't give us any evidence of wrongdoing. He's always denied doing anything wrong.

But the the visuals of the kinds of behaviour that was taking place we don't know where it was, we don't know when it was, but I think there will be many people who look at that and particularly women who just think that in itself is quite a disturbing image. Andrew Mountbatten was there has of course already been sort of edged out of public life. Um

But I think this image is one that will go round the world. It will be seen by everybody in the country. It adds of course to that image where he has his arm round Virginia Duffrey. He'd always said he didn't recognise that photograph of smiling Glenn Maxwell in the background. alongside the picture of him with his arm round Virginia Giffrey, who he denied meeting. I I I think it will be incredibly difficult for him to escape the perception that that picture gives.

One of the things as well that's important for everyone is the timeline. And at the point when Epstein was serving a prison sentence. It was a strange prison term because he was allowed to work at home.

But Laura, one of the other things that comes out of it is is an insight into the relationship between these famous people at Epstein. For for instance, Sarah Ferguson has apparently written an email. Mm-hmm. Thanking him for the way he praised her in front of her daughters. And I was thinking to myself, it's an insight into the grip this man has. That people seemed to want to have his attention, his affection, his praise. It's something about we keep asking ourselves.

What did he have that these people wanted to get? And in some areas perhaps the question is answered by something very straightforward, great wealth. and influence and one of the stories that has come out overnight is that Lord Mandelson's partner, Reinaldo da Silva, Was given money by Epstein to pay the fees for him to train as an osteopath. That story is there in these documents.

Lord Mandelson has said he doesn't want to add anything to it since he spoke to us at great length a couple of weeks ago. But for people like him in the public eye who've tried to move on, again you see this damaging perception of just how strong these connections were. Um and it's very, very troubling, I think, in many, many regards. Not least also there are all sorts of unverified, unsubstantiated allegations from an FBI tip line. 拜拜

what President Trump may or may not have done. Now, as you've said, being included in these documents, whether it's uh an email, a photograph or from a f FBI tip line, that does not in itself confirm wrongdoing in any way, shape or form. But there's just... So much.

in here, so much sort of shade being thrown, if you like, that frankly if you were one of the people who's been mentioned in it and you absolutely never did anything wrong whatsoever, an Epstein sort of duped you and you were drawn into his

you might have a case to feel pretty sore about it that you're being castigated by by implication. Shall we then talk to Gary O'Donohue who I don't know, Gary, are you one of the journalists who's been up all night trying to wade through all of this? It's still pretty early in the States. Not quite all night, but um we spent a good amount of time yesterday trying to make

head or tail of it because it's you know, it's like um you know, it's like wading through syrup, but you know, you can't you can't ever know quite where you are. It's sort of, you know, you you don't know which way to turn, what to focus on. which bits are important, which aren't, and you end up sort of doing just sort of searches for names or places or or sort of dates and things like that to try and

Try and sift a little. There's no there's no roadmap to to exploring this stuff. So with more sifting to be done, tell us your three main headlines. Well there's an awful lot. That's that's one headline. I think there is There are there are stacks of references to people we already know had been referenced in the previous releases. So, you know, there are thousands of documents here that mention Donald Trump, for example.

Yn ymwneud yw'n ymwneud yw'n ymwneud. Yn ymwneud yw'n ymwneud yw'n ymwneud. Some of them are, you know, casual mentions in emails. Some of them are are sort of pretty personal things. There's one from Epstein where he's uh corresponding with a Um a New York Times journalist, and there's another one where he is uh sort of describing how unpleasant he thinks uh Donald Trump is.

uh and then there's all the the ones you've been mentioning about Andrew. Um and there's also these curious thing this there's this one curious document that's got quite a lot of focus, which is this sort of collation of uh tips to the FBI. Literally like crime stoppers. It's literally the you know, the number, this national threat.

uh center that people have been ringing. It sounds posh, but it's one eight hundred call FBI. That's the phone number. I love America. That's amazing. Can you imagine here having a number saying one eight hundred call call Fi? But it's literally ring up and Spew what you think. Uh, and there's a whole uh bunch of these things that relate to Trump. Now, for some reason, these were collated, these random tips were collated last year.

um and put together and and some of them are are horrid, I mean really horrible. But there's absolutely no evidence for them whatsoever. And indeed the the investigators at the time said they weren't credible. Now you might think, well, you know, if you're if you believe in a cover up you think well, c they would say that, wouldn't they? But this was already in the context of everyone knowing the heinous nature of Epstein's crime. So it's not like

You know, they were trying to ma do a massive cover up. They were just trying to, you know, establish the credibility of these particular stories that they were getting on these phone calls. Um but that that will in some way fuel the continuing conspiracy, um, because in some ways. information, even this vast amount of information, that that will never satisfy the core group who believe that the rich and powerful have kept things from them.

There's another aspect to this as well, which is some of the victims have been named publicly in this release of document, and one of the their lawyers who represents them was furious. saying even in some cases where there's been a line through the victim's name, except you can still read the victim's name. So another aspect of this is it's another moment when the victims feel that they have been treated shoddily.

And Gary, there's still are more documents. I mean it's hard to imagine. They've got three million now already out in the public domain. But from a political point of view in the US You know, some Democrats are still saying the government still hasn't published them all. Yeah. And there's um I mean there's there's a couple of things there. One is Todd Blanche, the deputy A G.

Um he actually acknowledged yesterday we will we will have made mistakes in this release. And they have an actual email address. Where you can email in if you think some your identity has been disclosed in a way it shouldn't have been disclosed. So they they've already set that up. Um and you're right, Gloria Alred has been uh has been furious about that on behalf of some of the survivors that she uh represents.

There are I mean potentially a couple of million documents that they haven't released. Now, the way he characterized that yesterday is some of it is child pornography, some of it is medical records, some of it He rather sort of curiously alluded to as images of death. So goodness knows what that is. Um but the the Democrats believe there are other documents that they're holding on to, whether they get a look at them or not. I suspect, and if you sort of look at the coverage even yesterday here

Um and certainly today. If you sort of look at the coverage There's a sort of weariness about So I wonder whether the appetite sort of in terms of the mainstream media, for example, is waning on this one pretty big time. And Todd Blanche, you mentioned there's the deputy attorney general in the US, of course. And

I suppose Donald Trump would be delighted if this was sort of ever to go away, but it has been a huge issue, particularly for the MAGA base, for his Make America Great Again fan base. But I suppose this goes back to you reminding us of what the main headlines are. One you said there's Two, you said it relates to famous names that we already knew were already linked.

And third you told us that there was this FBI tip line. But I suppose can I just drill further into the idea that it's all d it's also depressing and it's all uh i making people feel weary? Because obviously the victims feel that it's re victimizing them, so it's not helping them. The general public feel it it doesn't answer the question, is there more? So in in many ways it seems to have been a process which has raised as many questions by release as it has as as it has answered.

Yeah, I mean I wasn't I wasn't at the press conference where the Deputy Attorney General uh spoke yesterday, but uh and I didn't see all of it. But I was kind of screaming at the screen for those reporters to say to him, Look in this process of redaction, did you then think again about potential cases. You know, did you reassess what you were reading in order to redact it to think about prosecution? Because of course, you know, Epstein's dead. Um Maxwell's in prison for twenty years. That's it.

That's it in terms of prosecutions. Now we heard in the previous batch that there may have been potentially ten co conspirators that they were looking at. Six of them had subpoenas. We don't know whether whether they were objects of the investigation. Certainly one of them said that he wasn't. He was just uh helping with information. But we have no idea really why

This isn't leading to further charges. Now I spec if you say to them they'll say, Well, there's not the evidence, but no one actually said when you were reading all this stuff, what were you thinking about potential future charges? Ruth Davidson, the Tory peer. was on Radio Four on a programme with me a couple of weeks ago. She said the only person currently in prison for Epstein's crimes is a woman.

But when it comes to most of the people who've been mentioned in this or most of the people who've been drawn into this web, is there just isn't necessarily any suggestion of anything that's kind of criminal? It's about unsavoury connections that are embarrassing now, particularly for those who maintained their friendships after Epstein's conviction. That's the key. And from a political point of view in this country

top of that list, of course, which he would not want to be anywhere near that list, of course, is Lord Peter Mandelson. And I think there are some unfinished questions, unanswered questions. for him and also what Keir Starmer's team knew when they gave him a job as an American ambassador. So the new revelation in these emails that we've seen so far

is that Epstein sent ten thousand pounds to his partner, Rinaldo da Silva, in two thousand and nine. And you can see quite a sort of gushing email from Ronaldo da Silva saying thank you so much for the money. It was being paid towards his training as an osteopath. Now in two thousand and nine there are two important things. That was one after Epstein's first conviction.

And that was too when Peter Mandelson was actually back in the government. Yeah. Now for a serving member of the government to have had their partner get a large sum of money from someone who had a conviction for sexual offences is something that people in the government and in the public may well have wanted to know. But let's just listen to how Mandelson described his relationship with Epstein when we spoke to him a few weeks ago. Uh I have to say to you

And I can say this absolutely, I can say it to you categorically. I never saw anything. in his life when I was with him, when I was in his homes, that would give me any reason to suspect What this evil monster was doing in preying on these young women. Do you really think? That if I knew what was going on and what he was doing with and to these vulnerable uh young women, that I'd have just sat back.

ignored it and moved on and said, Okay, that's his that's his life, he can get on with Do you think I would have done that? Do you think I would have written emails like that if I had had any one iota of knowledge or suspicion of what he was doing. I certainly would not. Now he also told us that he believed he was kept separate from the sexual side of his life of Epstein's life because as a gay man it was not something that was relevant to him. We should also say there's no suggestion.

that Lord Mandelson's partner Ronaldo da Silva did anything wrong at all. Well the emails suggest he took money for Epstein for a specific reason, but that does not imply or suggest that anything untoward had happened or he was part of it in any way, shape or form. You know, doing the the sort of day-to-day Westminster beat through all those years. When Peter Mandelson I mean, how many times has he had to stand up, sit down and say stuff like this?

You know, that that's the thing that's surprising, that that in some ways, even by two thousand nine, two thousand and ten, uh Lord Mandelson kind of hadn't learnt the lesson. Over all those years. I mean h the first time he had to resign was over the if you remember the loan to Jeffrey Rob from Jeffrey Robinson to buy Yeah, to buy a house in Notting Hill. Then there was another obviously the the other occasion with the the passports and the Indian business but

You you know, and this, as you say, was after Jeffrey Epstein was convicted in two thousand and nine. He was also a cabinet minister. I mean, when do you learn the lessons? When do you learn to be careful about your associations? It it it strikes me as a I mean i it's tragic is too strong a word'cause he is not a survivor or a victim of anything here. Um but it is an astonishing lesson in the sort of

It also just to be clear, if that had come out at the time when he was in the cabinet, that would have been a huge news story. You know, that would have been a matter of public interest. It would have mattered. What we don't know, and just to go back to Downing Street these days, we don't know if Number ten knew about this, if this was one of the things that he told them before he was given the job as the American ambassador.

Um, obviously there was huge speculation. We know that he was asked three questions by number ten before he was given that job. He said he said to us in that interview, I told them everything. Did he tell them that? We don't have an answer to that question at the moment. So what do no, so do you think that the um you know I I think this is something m maybe people at home would would think and and I certainly think it. $10,000 I mean...

It you know, ten thousand pounds is ten thousand pounds, but what on earth are you doing, you know, getting connected with a a businessman who's had a conviction over ten thousand I mean, it just seems extraordinary. And sort of I mean, I can't get my head round what process, what mental process would think that was a good idea.

I was reflecting at the start that there was a letter that a ca uh an email that apparently comes from Sarah Ferguson, thanking Geoffrey Epstein for praising her in front of her children. And here you see this figure of ten thousand pounds, high stakes roulette, for the sake of this osteopath bill. Um, and I think it gets to this question, Gary, I was going to ask you, do you have any sense of the grip Epstein had over the people he associated with?

Do we know what his spell was? Do we see and it's a ten year investigation, that's one of the reasons why the amount of material is so large. The timeline is is long. Do you see anything when you read these? Emails and of course many people who send emails don't think that the emails you send to a dead person are gonna come back in the media. So do you see anything that explains the spell he cast? Look, I I I I'm with Laura on this one, you know, it's money.

It's quite simply money. I mean, there is you know, there's a good time to all these kind of particularly these other wealthy people, they don't need to go to you know, to see Jeffrey Epstein to have a good time, right? They have enough liquid assets to have a good time on their own terms.

But the the sheer kind of volume of his wealth, it's like moths round a lamp, isn't it? Money attracts people. There's just I think I think that is the bald Gary, there's gonna be so much more to unpick as we get through finally it well, if we ever finally get all of the documents, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some other

many news bombs that explode as these documents continue to be poured over. I note that there's a message of the Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnik, who's of course part of the current Trump administration.

possibly planning a trip to the Epstein Island, but we should say as with him and with what lots of other people named, just being in there doesn't mean they did anything wrong. But Gary, thank you very much for helping us out. Hope you maybe get a bit more sleep tonight. Thanks, Laura. Thanks, Paddy. If journalism is the first draft of history, what happens if that draft is flawed?

In 1999, four Russian apartment buildings were bombed, hundreds killed. But even now, we still don't know for sure who did it. It's a mystery that sparked chilling theory. I'm Helena Merriman, and in a new BBC series, I'm talking to the reporters who first covered this story. What did they miss the first time? The History Bureau. Putin and the apartment bombs. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

So we come screeching back home to a very important by election. I'm sure in the media we say every by election is very important, very indicative of changing time. But this is massive. I mean just allow me to be really excited for a second. Here you have fascinating political kaleidoscope, things changing all over the place. The two big parties both kind of in the doldrums having a terrible time. Two insurgent parties, Reform and the Greens, both chucking.

huge amounts of effort, energy, activists today, leaflets, all the rest, um, at trying to win. It is possible that this might feel in the end like a race between reform and the Greens. Labour sources scoff at that and say, Don't be ridiculous. The Greens don't even have a single counsellor in this area. It's about us and reform. But it is gonna be a really fascinating race and a short one. Four weeks, that's all.

Because the longer it goes on, the longer the insurgents have to grab a foothold, the shorter it is, the easier it is theoretically for the incumbents to hold on. So it also had a psychodrama about Andy Burnham in it, but that's all been forgotten because we now well it hasn't been forgotten at all. It's all been removed set temporarily by the naming of candidates, including Labour's own choice, Angelique Stolya.

has been announced today. The Greens have selected Hannah Spencer, otherwise known as Hannah the Plumber, on uh social media. She's a thirty four year old plumber who's the leader of the Greens on Trafford Council. Uh, she's been a councillor there since two thousand and three. So we've got two local government figures from that area. The Lib Dems have chosen local academy governor Jackie Pearsing. Then last week you mentioned Screaming Lord Such and the monster raving lunism.

And the monster raving loonies have been in touch. I love that. What have they got to say? Agent Chinners, Minister of Spinning, Bouncing and Points says thanks for the brief shout-out the other day. However, Screaming Lord Such is now the Spiritual leader of our party, as since 1999 it has been misled by the UK's longest-serving political leader ever, howling Lord Hope.

And mister Chinners followed up with an exclusive scoop. We like them on Weekend Newscast. This is just to let you know first, as promised, our candidate for the Gorton and Denton by election will be Sir Enkelot. a local resident of the said constituency. Communications from newscasters are what we always love to read. Um the Tories and the Workers' Party candidates have not yet been announced. Nomination shut on Tuesday and as ever there is a full list on the BBC website.

So there we have the slate, the names on the doors and the slate forming for the Gorton Addent by Election. You can be sure that Adam will wrap up the close of nominations on Tuesday when all those questions we did.

o'r hyn o'r hyn o'r hyn o'r hyn o'r hyn o'r hyn o'r hyn? So we are going to be on Iran watch overnight. Yes, us too. Yes. This is a situation which has been seen in recent weekends Saturday night foreign policy objectives been uh sought by the White House. And this is one which is because there's a giant armada

in the waters around Iran and um uh we are watching to see what happens with it. We are and on that which point we will be joined on the panel tomorrow. Actually I'm excited about this because we are going to be speaking to Professor John Bu Telebox and also joining us on Newscast tomorrow. So we will have irrespective of what happens in Iran overnight, we'll have the benefit of a briefing from one of the most plugged in security brains in the country. So I'm looking forward to that.

So a lot on the airwaves. A lot in the earbuds. Thank you very much for listening to Saturday's newscast. We hope you'll join us. For Sunday. Goodbye. Goodbye. Newscast. Newscast from the BBC. Thank you so much for making it to the end of Newscast. You clearly copyright Chris Mason. Ooze stamina. Can I gently encourage you to subscribe to us on BBC Sounds? Don't forget you can email us anytime.

Anytime. It's newscast at bbc.co.uk. And if you would like to join our Discord community to talk about everything newscast-related, There is a link in the description of this podcast. And don't be scared, it's super easy to click on it and then get set up. Or you can WhatsApp us on 0330-123-9480. And I promise you we read and listen to every single message. Thanks for listening to this podcast. Bye. If journalism is the first draft of history, what happens if that draft is flawed?

In 1999, four Russian apartment buildings were bombed, hundreds killed. But even now, we still don't know for sure who did it. It's a mystery that sparked chilling theory. I'm Helena Merriman, and in a new BBC series, I'm talking to the reporters who first covered this story. What did they miss the first time? The History Bureau. Putin and the apartment bombs. Listen on bbc dot com or wherever you get your podcasts.