Training to Failure

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now. Welcome back sports fans without fail. We're here today to talk about Training always right, but really we're gonna talk about the idea of training to failure What that looks like whether it's one set which a research article that we're gonna talk about explains My latest blog post talked about training the last set being the failure for certain different stimulus or results

coming off of that. So yeah, Tiana brought this article to me when we're talking about podcast ideas and things we're going to talk about about this great article and then just kind of brought to life a couple of different things, whether we're that article, the blog post kind of I wanted to be the preface for that. So please go and read that as well with that. It talks mainly about strength and different ways that you can

get it. So yeah, Tiana, tell us about the article and kind of how this thought and this process came to you here. Yeah, so I saw this pop up a couple of times because this recent study, I think it was either November or December of last year, they did this one particular study and that has been taken and used in articles

all over the place since. So one of the ones here was they're discussing the use of a single set of an exercise to failure versus your traditional three to four sets with varying reps, depending on what the goal is there for hypertrophy and strength. I will say based on the study versus the articles written, it does seem that they kind of overstated what the results were a bit when they're saying like, oh, well, you can just go ahead and train one set and it's just as good.

There's a little nuance there as to what that actually means. But to kind of to break it down a little bit for the overall study, there was a comparison of the single set training performed to failure versus a type of training with two reps in reserve. So this is something that is estimated by the person completing it and that entails that they have some understanding of their own body in the sense of understanding what two reps left in them would feel like. So

there is that taken into consideration. And another thing to note here is they actually did use resistance trained participants, which Sometimes in the studies world, that can be a unique thing because we're always trying to adapt this to the sports performance space, athletic performance space, and a lot of the time individuals. So in this particular case, it was nice to see that they used in this one 42 resistance trained participants

and they were between ages 18 and 40. So you do get some in that range of like active athletes. and then some, you know, more of your masters type athletes, I'm sure. So yeah, that's basically what they were they studied and broke down here. And then they did put them through an eight week program. And that eight weeks consisted of two full body sessions each week. And then each session included nine exercises for a single set of eight

to 12 reps at for max capacity. Yeah, so the article was interesting to me and like immediately when You brought this to mind I also thought about Using this for hypertrophy which made me think about Brad Schoenfeld It was like really big into hypertrophy like a lot of his research has to do with that and so I I just start going looking at Brad Schoenfeld stuff and It's interesting because a lot of his research is like you need more exposure in the week rather than just one

set to failure. It's like they've got sets to failure which are shown to be improved but it's not necessarily just the one but could be. Right. I mean like some of his frequency stuff says

two times per week. Obviously we've got that here Some of his training volume suggests you should have 10 to 20 sets though Depending on your experience level and recovery and I would say that these resistance trained people have experienced and know how to recover maybe a little bit better than the novice Lifter would be so it's kind of interesting to get the two uh different perspectives and it also just made me think about when would I use this as a coach so um let's

just briefly for our listeners talk about the list of exercises here so another thing we had mentioned in our conversations off air that was like interesting is that they went bench press and squat one rep max for strength uh because they wanted to see strength was power through jump height and endurance. Also, muscle thickness was assessed so they could see if hypertrophy was an outcome that they had as well. So, exercises that they used in the workouts, like Tiana said,

two times per week, one set to failure. Lap pull down, seated cable row, machine shoulder press, machine chest press, cable tricep push down, dumbbell bicep curl. Smith machine squat, plate loaded leg press, and machine leg extension. Another thing that I think is kind of fascinating here is that the bicep is like the standalone free weight. Everything else is machine or cable and has a bit of stability added to it, right?

So I'm interested in their thought process of what's maybe they wanted more stability because they're going to go all out, right? Does that make sense? So they can just not have to worry about like Smith machine. I can just worry about going all out and I don't have to worry about Somebody really losing balance, you know while they're trying to squat, you know same thing like press Same thing with the leg extension

right go all out. Don't have to worry about a lot of stuff So maybe these things were laid out as like a safety measure I could see the same thing for Lat pull down instead of a chin

up, right? There's like probably less variance that you have happening with like the full extension on the chin up or pull up just Guess similar processes here you get to these same loaded position the same positions every time by using the machine rather than Having a body weight like doing dumbbell Bench press to failure right you've got less variance and like less risk I guess I Guess one of the things that can't comes to mind when I'm thinking about the way that they plan this study,

though, is if you're going to base things off the one rep max of squat and bench. Why? I guess what's your perspective on why they wouldn't choose to actually do the reps in the study using the same exercises that they were planning on testing the difference for? I mean, again, I think. What I just said is there may be less risk in going to failure with these other exercises and they felt like those exercises supported

those Movements. I mean, I mean they may have they may have cited reasons that they use them As like other research has shown that these things can lead to increases in strength or something for Squat max right like I'm sure I mean possibly but also Number one, we're using resistance trained participants. So safety wise, we should be there already if we're testing a 1RM to any degree, if we're safe enough to test it. I don't see why we couldn't do our reps to failure there.

But yeah, I mean, I can understand, I guess, in a more clinical setting. I just, I wonder if the results would have been the same if they had trained specifically in the tests that they were using. Yeah, gauge progress. Yeah, I mean

said principle, right? So if if they did that they'd probably have They would have a good amount of return towards that exercise because they're actually doing it, you know Again, my thought is just they use the extra stability so that people could worry less about having to stay balanced or I think they could just probably Safely go all out to failure to complete failure for those people So, I mean that's what I would say is they probably selected those exercises

because they can attribute it can be like In research be attributed to increases in one rep squat max and then they're also Safer let's not say safer, but there's a little there's more stability So inherently probably more or less risk happening while going to failure in some of these exercises the bicep curl was the one that you know, I guess I Guess they didn't need to use Need to use stability with so Yeah, so again interesting Of all the stuff that you have

happening with there So the other thing that kind of stood out to me here is we're talking about this the single set group working in that the single set of 8 to 12 reps at max capacity and I Mean that's so we're saying here that max they did 12 reps correct to get to failure Because they're using heavy enough weight for that to work. Is that my understanding that part, right?

Yeah, but the the other the fail group went to absolute muscular failure so the resistance had to be By cranked or fine -tuned into the point where they were failing somewhere in there, right? Right, but then that brings up the question for me How much different here are we talking if we're using a single set to failure? but the reps are much higher. So say there's, you know, a group that's doing reps to failure, but their weight's lower. So it's taking them 20 reps or

25 reps to failure. It kind of changes the whole premise of the study in that point, because then, you know, if you're adding that up to your traditional sets and reps, you're going to be pretty similar in where you're ending up with your total rep

count. Yeah. I mean, that does play into like how much volume you're actually taking on if you're going to absolute failure versus if you're doing eight to twelve reps but you're selecting where you are with two reps in reserve at that point so yeah there's probably some there's definitely going to be some results that are like leaning towards that but um that's like hey we're going to do We're gonna do four sets of eight or we're gonna do one rep one set to failure maybe you

end up with 32 reps in your one set to failure and The metabolic and mechanical demands are obviously a lot different as you get towards the end of that Set of 32, let's say then it is if you do four sets of eight so I mean, that's some of the stuff that you would just talk about, like the muscular damage, the metabolic stress, those things are higher, which can contribute to more hypertrophy being gained in those things.

So I think maybe that's one of the things that we're trying to show is that we can do, if you need to do, if... Can it be done with one set? Yes, it can. And it should be this continuous to failure because of these reasons probably that Schoenfeld has really shown. Another thing is the mechanical tension needs to be a certain way. And that's probably how they got this to muscular failure. But these other people are going eight to 12 with two in reserve. So they

had to be somewhere similar. with the mechanical tension that was happening. So yeah, I mean, it's just a lot of things to consider, right? And all of the studies there, but those would be my thoughts as to that, just based on other research that's done before this one and like

actually just looking at this research. And if we're taking into consideration, one of the benefits that they have said, which is, you know, being able to complete as much gain as much hypertrophy or strength or whatever that result is in that one set in a shorter amount of time to maximize what you get out of your training if you've got limited time, then that's a really key point in that eight to 12 rep range with having that right amount of tension in order to get the results

in a quick manner versus that one set if you're just thinking I'm going to walk in the gym. I'm going to do as many reps as it takes to fail. And that could take you all day depending on what weight you're using. So making sure to keep in mind the constraints they put on this particular study. Yeah. I mean, I had a lot of different thoughts about practically what does this look like in a couple of different settings actually.

So honestly, when it comes to mind, what I think about immediately is Hey, this is probably a good strategy for a person who doesn't have a lot of time to train. Right. I do my warm up and then I've got maybe it's nine exercises. Maybe it's five. I don't know. Maybe you allow yourself to do a warm up sets and then go into

your set of failure on these exercises. But I think it's I mean, like if you're if you want hypertrophy, which Again, let me backtrack and say let's just be clear to the listeners that the results were like very small in favor of the to failure group. So it's not like a big

stark wide gap in favor of to failure. But if maybe for the person that needs to use this if they don't have a lot of time and this is shown to be a little bit ahead of doing sets to doing a set to well you know get close to the end there maybe it's worth it to just do five exercises or whatever number works for you in your time frame to fill your get a good pump right which is another thing that schoenfeld has you know brought up in research as beneficial to hypertrophy

is to get that muscle swelling. So maybe that's something that you're chasing as well and not a bad thing to chase. So maybe it gets you to that. So it puts you in a state where maybe you're going to have more hypertrophy results as a result

of the training. So I think for a person who doesn't have a lot of time great but then i'm thinking about my athletes like maybe i don't want to do sets to failure on back squat but maybe i can do sets to failure on something like a kaiser belt squat or maybe some type of dumbbell squat or something you know like that's super that's fairly light right somewhere maybe i'm looking eight to 12 somewhere that's maybe like 70 to 75 percent of their max maybe i'm looking

at i don't know something like that but maybe it's my last set so maybe i've got my main blocks right maybe two three main blocks and like one of my final things is hey we're going to do one set to failure Don't know if it's a total body

day. Maybe we're gonna do like a squat Maybe a cable pushdown curl leg press I don't know something like that, you know like something maybe closer to what they have in the study if you have the the means to do that, but Athletically, that's that's kind of what I'm thinking if you're in the offseason Okay, let's add this set to failure at the end of our workout and maybe that can help get us some some more hypertrophy if

that's what we're looking for. Obviously the study said that there were small increases in vertical jump for the failure group, so maybe that's what we're looking for. Not really any strength gains that were benefited, but hypertrophy, a little bit of vertical jump. But it makes sense to me why that would be for vertical jump because everything was like quad dominant in their study,

right? The Smith squat, um the leg press and especially the knee extension like that was all quad dominant so there should be should be some uh vertical jump improvements in that and something to note here as well at the end here with the results um i would say one of the things they mentioned is the reps and reserve group um potentially being a more comfortable option for athletes in the sense that, you know, if you're not training to failure all the time, that you're not going

to have that increased recovery need as you would with leaving a couple reps in the tank and then being able to come back for another training session. So I know you mentioned like certain exercises you may choose to do to failure and you mentioned the off season. So is that something you're taking into consideration while you're saying like, well, Certain things I wouldn't want to train to failure just because of that recovery time necessary at that point Or where

were you coming from with with that? Yeah, I was thinking more offseason because of the recovery like there's probably gonna be a good amount of soreness at least initially that's associated with Doing a set to failure at the end of the workout, you know so Even if it's Dom's there's stuff you have to consider about what's it gonna look like this may be I'm in the offseason Not

anything happening on the weekend. So it's maybe a Friday session that I do it So if you are sore, you're gonna be sore you know, maybe Saturday or Sunday and then You need to use your best recovery strategies, you know thereafter to get ready for Monday when we come back around, you know, if that's your your training schedule, so That's kind of what I was thinking for that was the soreness element of it which is going to happen later Then there are also going to

be some Increases in fatigue which could affect Subsequent training sessions after that so you want to have a good amount of space For whatever it is. Maybe you're doing an upper body thing on Tuesday let's say you've got Wednesday where you're not really training and then you're back Thursday with maybe a Lower body or total body things try to get away from Whatever you just did and maybe have some active recovery from blood flow And focus on a different area. So

You're looking at things like that. I mean like honestly, I think you could probably get away with doing I do buys and tries, you know do some resisted Don't know if being resisted or something like glue bridge or something like that to probably get you to something Could if you got a way to do knee extensions, that might be a good thing to do at the end of your workout Like I know we've got some Kaisers here so we could do single leg Knee extensions to failure, you know, we

could do both sides individually for whatever they needed and we could get eight people going at once in our space so that might be an option for us and have the other person that's waiting maybe cheer you on, which can probably give you a few more reps than you would normally get. So those are some options that just come to mind

automatically. Oh, another thing I wanted to bring out, because this came to my mind too, is the blood flow restriction is another big thing in hypertrophy, especially when it comes to the clinical setting of return to play. or like, you know, return to participation. So that's

another thing I thought here. Not really hypoxic as far as restricting the amount of blood flow in this study, but it just kind of put me along the same lines of that as you might, I mean, because they already do sets, they do some sets of failure or high rep sets with really light loads in that. hypoxic environment, which has shown benefits to hypertrophy. So it's kind of along the same lines, I think, if you don't have

if you don't have access to cuffs for BFR. So that's kind of the other thing that I was, you know, getting similar lines of training from. On this list here, with the different exercises that they chose to study. If you were thinking about seeing how this would go for your groups, what would you kind of change out here? Aces Nation is a team of former college athletes and coaches on a mission to improve the sports culture

experience and change today's expectations. We do this by helping every player maximize their athletic potential with professional programs to improve strength, speed, nutrition and mental toughness, and by using sports to create a direct pathway to college with a guaranteed college scholarship program for all student athletes. Visit acesnation .org to learn more and schedule a demo. Let's go. That's a good question because they are so lower body exercises they chose.

I'm OK with because they they're looking at vertical jump and that makes sense. But like I already talked about. And I already mentioned the stability for about everything so I kind of think it makes

sense for them. I don't necessarily understand Why they used a free weight bicep curl and machine, you know machine cable everything else and why they wouldn't just use cable for the curl aspect, but Other than that, I don't necessarily know That I have an issue with there anything just based on the the layout of the study If you have more access to machines in your In your space then it definitely lends itself a little more specifically to you this study does but Obviously,

we don't say have to be a little more creative with things that we're doing but it's definitely something it's something that I find intriguing and definitely it's it's getting me thinking about what we get into our off seasons for fall and stuff like maybe not initially in the first couple of weeks but you know when we get into our second third block of training this might be something interesting to to look at you know we could do the eight i could replicate an eight

week uh block here and retest on similar metrics, you know, to whether or not adding that to, you know, adding one set to failure or adding half the group are doing one set failure and half of them are doing, you know, like two reps in reserve, you know, like you can almost replicate the study where everyone's doing the same thing,

right? They're not doing only nine sets to failure, you know, with different exercises, but They're doing a similar training plan, but this group's doing to failure to add is that adding anything is it not? So it could be an interesting thing to look at But it's definitely got me thinking about You know, what are we looking for in our offseason? How could we implement something like this or is it even worth trying to implement,

you know, so Yeah, it's It's interesting. I definitely see the application for efficiency and in a collegiate setting, being able to move people through with set times and being able to get the same amount of work and benefits from the exercise with a large group. So I do see definitely benefits in that with this being the case with the single set. I'd be interested to hear how people apply it and depending on the population group you

have and age range, how it differs a bit. I'm wondering if this is something that could help with older age groups even then they've studied in the sense of people not being able to work for as long or as hard necessarily. And I'm thinking even kind of elderly population types where failure for them is going to come a lot sooner in some of these exercises, and especially when it's machine based. So interesting applications, I think, outside of even what they looked at here.

But it's definitely, it's new and exciting and something to give a try. Yeah, I think lastly a concern that comes to my mind in the collegiate setting is The nutrition and recovery side of it Where sleep is probably less than optimal and the during the academic year athletes are having to study more or choosing not to study and doing social events, you know afterwards and so there's Sleep that's lost whether or not

they've adapted to that or not. I think is Not what I'm focusing focusing on and then obviously Protein intake and overall caloric intake is also going to be less than optimal for I Would say a good majority of the population, but they don't have the means to support that type of recovery right or to be in a caloric surplus and honestly, maybe it's not the means maybe some people are just Let's say absent minded and not eating as much as they should maybe they

don't know how much they're actually eating or how much they actually need to eat and so that educational piece but also like the follow -through on the education of like How are we supporting

recovery? uh could also play into whether or not it's actually benefiting right so the study could be i don't know maybe the results were minimal in favor of failure because of something like that right maybe those maybe that platform for recovery wasn't where it should have been right it could be different if they were given you know, like they were more strict, right? Or they had them set up in a way that they weren't

getting that. I mean, you could be looking at like almost lab rat type of, we're going to keep you in this space. We're going to feed you this amount based on your body mass, right? And your expenditure. And we're going to make sure we're going to put you in this big sleep tank or whatever makes you get this much sleep, right? Like I think that would be in a very expensive study.

uh but it could yield different results for the two groups right just based on how people are recovering so uh that that's also something i wanted to to mention as well wonder about pre workout as well because if you're working for that less of an amount of time that caloric burn may not be the same so you may have over eating on the other end If all these workouts are super short and you need the calories, maybe in terms of recovery, but going into training, are we

throughout the whole day? What does that look like then? Are we burning a lot less or just as slightly smaller amount? Kind of interesting to think about where we'd be with total caloric

burn. Yeah. I mean, are you at a desk job? you know after this workout before this workout or are you practicing for two hours later in the day or you know whatever so that's definitely another thing to think about is what's the overall stress that you're experiencing throughout that that study so it's different right it's better when it's resistance trained adults you get a sense for how this would actually work or how it might work a little closer to like athletes

but But again, if you're looking for it in the athletic population, you always have to take it with a grain of salt because they're not athletes. They're not going to practice for hours, you know, some in the heat, some are inside, you know, so obviously these things can affect expenditure or heart rates and recovery and just other systems

of the body. So yeah, I mean, definitely a lot of things to consider, but hopefully, like it did for us, just gets you thinking about, How may this piece, does this piece fit in the puzzle for us, right? It's nice. It's something that, you know, obviously there could be some benefits for it, but if it doesn't fit in our puzzle, then it's okay. There are other things that can go in there to help us, you know, get that same result that you're looking for, right? Thanks

everybody for listening. Hey, let us know what your thoughts are. How could this work for your situation? Either for yourself, if you're one of those people who doesn't have a lot of time, maybe this can work for you. Or if you're a strength coach or a coach in any different setting, how could something like this work for your team, for your athletes? So let us know. Give us some feedback on how you think this could work for you. Thanks everybody for listening. We'll catch you on the next one