Welcome in to the New Orleans Saints Podcast, present a buy Seacake. You'll hear from players, coaches, broadcasters and writers that cover the NFL on a daily basis. The New Orleans Saints Podcast starts right now. Here's your host, Aaron Summers.
We're back on the New Orleans Saints Podcast, building towards the NFL Draft April twenty fourth through twenty six and for those that need a refresher on the free agency and roster moves the Saints already have made, you can tune into our free agency recap show on New Orleans Saints dot com and on the Gulf Coast Sports and
Entertainment Network with myself and John de Chaser. For today's podcast, it's all about the big guys upfront offensive lineman and for a breakdown of this year's prospects, let's bring in Saints legend John stinchcom. John, thanks for joining me on the New Orleans Saints Podcast. It's it's good to talk to you at this point of the year. Usually it's around the start of the Saints season, but man, we're early on in things, getting ready for the draft. How are you?
I'm great and it is an exciting time of the year. I think there's a hope springs eternal for every team. So you start off with a clean slate and get to add some fun pieces, and with the draft coming up, that's exciting for everybody.
I don't know if offensive linemen really get the people going no events, but the Saints definitely.
Well hold on, what do you mean, go with fence, Aaron, That's like, with all due respect, and then you just take whatever shot you want. Okay, I'm sorry, we don't get people fired up. I got it.
Hey, you were a great one and we appreciate you. Last year, though, the Saints did knock one out of the park with Talisa Fluaga and their first pick of the draft. Last year, there was six tackles that went in the first round, so it was definitely a popular pick. This year, how many you think are going It'll be interesting.
I think you look at it and there is a separation between the top talent that you deserves those early consideration, let's call it. But I also think this, I think there's you know, with the Saints having a top ten pick, there's really, in my opinion, only four position groups that are worthy of that sort of investment on the offensive side of the all obviously quarterback and then offensive tackle.
I think those are difference makers. And then defensively, you're looking at it and you either want to get a lockdown corner like we've been able to find in years past, or somebody who can pressure the quarterbacks on an edge rusher. So, in my opinion, those are kind of the four positions that are deserving of that top ten consideration. And I think there's a number of players that could help not
only the Saints team, but any team. And when you have that top ten pick, you want it to be an impact on your organization for years and years to come.
When you're looking at offensive linemen and the prospects, what are some of the things that you're keyed in on when you're what And I'm sure it varies by position on the line as well.
Yeah, absolutely so tackle specifically. I mean, you want somebody that can do both, that is athletic enough to where you're not worried about facing some of the you know, these speed demons coming off the edge. You're going to face the Mica Parsons of the world, and the Boss and the Watts, and so you need somebody who can move. And then the way the direction this game has moved, it's you've got to be able to run the ball now.
So somebody who can, who can generate that power, create something some of that vertical separation that you see, and operate in space. That's not an easy combo to find in players, especially somebody that's ready made and can jump right in. And like you said, I think you hit a home run last year and finding for Waga. Who fits that bill. He's athletic enough, and you saw the development of him and his game throughout the season of Yes, he can move, he's super athletic, and you also saw
the power that he generates. So that's the type player that you're looking for when you're trying to draft someone, not only in the first round, but I think there's an even higher bar to clear when you're looking at a top ten pick.
Okay, So with Will Campbell at the combine and the whole scrupancy around his arm length, how big of a deal is that?
Yeah, I think it's laughable. I mean there's guys in the past who're worried about their hand size and all these things, and turn on the film. Can he player? Can he not, And Will's played in the SEC for a number of years now against the very best. The same guys that he's going to face were similar at this next level and did so in a very respect manner. So am I worried that, you know, it's half an
inch shorter than others, No, I'm not. I think you watch him play and you see his athleticism and it jumps out off the film, and I'm sure at the State of Louisiana would be thrilled to keep one of their own right there in the backyard. So I'm sure there's internal pressures just to at least consider walking down that path.
He stepped on campus there and won the starting job at left tackle as a true freshman, played three years there and did very well. I was looking at some of the analysis of his game and someone said that he's not a dominant destroyer at point of attack. Can you explain exactly what that means?
Yeah, so he's not one of those physical malers. I think Makai Beckton when he was coming out, the guy was three seventy five. So you turn on his film and he's truly mashing people, and that's not Will game. Will's athletick. He moves really well. You see him stay in position in pass protection, and you know that's more his game. He's not one of those guys that once he gets his hands on you, he's just going to
run you twelve yards and dump folks. So I don't know if that's a necessity, if that's what you're looking for, if that's the type offense that you plan on running, he's probably not your guy. But he's a very capable run blocker. You see him sustained blocks, you see him get in the right position and run his feet, And although you don't see that drive from Malers that fit that bill. I think he offers that balance that folks are looking for in the ability to be successful in
both pass protection and the run game. So not the Maller type. That's that's not his mo and for most systems, it doesn't need to.
Be on the left side in general.
Well, I mean that's where we've seeing him most recently. I think you look at his player profile and probably projects best at left tackle. In my opinion, I'm biased. Aaron I spent most of my time in the NFL at right tackle, but I think because of the way the game has evolved. There's equal ask whether it's left side or right side. It used to be you know, your right side is your more powerful player. Your right
tackle and your left tackles you're more athletic. Blind side of the quarterback I think that's the biggest misused term in all of sports, if I'm going to be candid with you, because the backside of a quarterback is away from where he's looking, so you know, it's usually to the to the strength of the field, the strength of the formation, that the wide side of the field. So if you're on the left hash, guess where the eyes of the quarterback are. You're to his right, So that
makes it the left tackle. Guess what. We don't just play on the left hash anymore. You know, it's you go to that right hash. You're looking over to the left side of the formation and the backside the blind side of the quarterbacks on his right. So yeah, sorry, soapbox, you got me up there, Aaron, But Will's an athletic guy.
He could play either side. I mean, obviously there is its easiest to project at left tackle, but that's the same thing with Fuaga, a guy who could, in my opinion, play either easily, and he made that transition pretty seamlessly. He was a guy who would come out as a right tackle and was able to shift over. So that seems to be a forgotten conversation this time of year when you're comparing it to Will Could he play right?
Could he play elsewhere? He's an athletic guy that moves well in space and is more than functional in the run game, So, in my opinion, could project either side.
It seems like in speaking to Will Camble after LSU's Pro Day, he said that most teams are still looking at him as a tackle and a couple maybe at guard because that's there need. But it's it did seem like he wanted to play tackle. Why, Like, what's the biggest the biggest difference is it ego thing? Like why these guys think that they got to hold down the corners?
Yeah, I think the ask is different. I think I think you have to be a little more dynamic at tackle than you do at guard. I think the ask is depending on the system. You're playing in a much more confined space. On the end, you're looking for more power. You talk about you know, I want somebody who can move folks on the interior. I played next to Jare
Evans and the other guard was Pearl Nicks. So you talk about two big humans that can take some of the giants in this world and dump them seven yards. They were capable of doing that. I think that's kind of what you're looking for in a profile of a guard, whereas at tackle you need to be more athletic and dynamic,
and I think that fits Will's game better. I think there's probably some systems that could move him into guard and want that lateral mobility that he offers, But for just the way he plays, I think he's a more natural tackle than he is a guard.
Is somebody that I've seen slated as either is Texas Calvin Banks. I mean, he's another person that's been talked about as one of the top offensive linemen in this draft here. What are your thoughts on him?
Yeah, so you got the big three right Obviously, Kevin Banks is one of those guys where he's built different than Will, a much thicker lower half, he plays a little more power, he's got a little more solid base to him. To me, that's a guy who would project
as an either. I think you could move him into guard and still have that power position, let him play and confined spaces, and his game would probably transfer to either for most systems better than Wills would, just because Will's I think Will's athletics is higher on the chart than than Banks is, but Banks probably has more power. And you know, it depends on what you're what you're looking to get and how you're looking to fill needs
and fit them in. Usually with that first round, you know there's such great value there that they can project to a number of different ways of helping your team. And both those guys fit that bill all right.
Some other names we should be looking at as the draft moves.
Down, Well, yea mimboo, right, mimbo how we pronounced that? Missouri another another great player. You watch him move and to me, he's kind of that tweeer of of he's got an athleticism athletic profile similar to Wills, but probably not as high. And then he's also got the power like Banks, but not as high. So kind of that hybrid of the two. Uh and and I think they have separated themselves as to in the consideration of some
of those first linemen taken. You look at depth of this draft, and I think it's probably deeper on the inside. I think there's more guards available in this draft than there are tackles that can help you, and I think this is probably a woefully thin year for center. So luckily that's not of need for the Saints because I don't think there's a lot of guys that project to be Day one starters or even starters down the road
in this league. So I'm glad we're not in a position where that's a need for us, and we can look elsewhere.
Yeah, Eric McCoy's been holding it down and then brought back Will Clap so got a back up right there. Ohio states Josh Simmons. He tore his ACL mid October and he was somebody that was slated to go first round. How much of a factor is that injury and maybe how much does he drop because of it?
Yeah, I think it's an opportunity for teams that are willing to understand that ACL's the progression and recovery from that injury. We're not thirty years ago where it's like, oh he tours a ACLS. It's like back and be the exact same, better player. There's still plenty of meat left on the bone if you will for a player's profile when they're recovering from an acl different from some
other injuries, but that's not a big concern. You turn on his tape and Ohio State's got a couple linemen, you know, you look at Donovan as well, and you say, these guys can play at the next level. So I've watched some of their film, just going back and watching
Ohio State play, and that's a talented team. So you've got some of these blue blood programs that are putting out some high level players, and two are coming out of Ohio State that may not be the top of the first round, but you can look at them and say they can help our team down the road, or I can see them as starters. And for Josh coming back, it's one of those guys where before he got injured, he's playing at a high level. And that wouldn't scare
me away one bit. I think there's probably more opportunity for because you know, there's not as much chatter and buzz surrounding a guy like that.
Sure, what are you watching film for? You just spit back on your couch, dial up some O line film and go and it's.
Scary here and you got to let it go at some point, and it's hard for me. So usually this time of year I'm training offensive linemen as they get ready for the draft, and this is it's one of the first years that I'm not training anybody. So it's old habits of just being able to watch film and try to stay somewhat connected to the game. It's now it's sad, and I don't appreciate you pointing that out
in front of all these fans that are knowing. How you know, you got to let the rope go at some point, John, but you have.
It yet, but you do stay involved still, as you said, training people, and you're there doing stuff with Georgia. We have no lineman there that we're working with.
Oh yeah there. So I've worked with a number of offensive line coming out of Georgia in years past. There's uh, you know, four guys have are leaving Georgia. So there's all all draftable, all capable of helping teams in different levels. You've got Date rat Ledge and Jared Wilson, Dylan Fairchilds and your trusts and different player profiles. But uh, you know it's again when you start looking at programs like
LSU or Georgia, Ohio State Texas. It seems like every year they've got a player or two, and it's because the way they recruit. You know, you've recruited UH and it's most difficult to find offensive and defensive linemen. So you pool these players together, you develop them for three or four years, and it's it's no surprise that when they leave the and matriculate through the college ranks, they are ready to help out some profession team. So George
is no exception. This year. There's a number of guys that, you know, depending on where you have them raided, whether it's a second third day rating, they can come in and fill some needs across that roster.
I saw somewhere where somebody was saying that there's about one hundred and forty eight draftable offensive linemen out there, but probably about twenty max will actually get drafted, and it seems crazy considering how many rounds there are and how many picks. But you mentioned that the depth might not be there across the board this year.
Yeah, so you know, you look at it, and I'm sure now that I'm old Aaron, and you continue to point that out, and I appreciate it. Humbling, thank you for this. Now I've got more friends that are like coaches across the league. You know, like there's a quarter of the teams in the league where either played with somebody or played against Somebody's probably more than that, but you get to talking to him and as they're evaluating players, it's like, can he be a cornerstone for our team?
Can he be a starter? Is he like a sixth man type, speaking specifically for offensive line, or is this a developmental guy that maybe he can be a backup one day? And then based on that analysis, that's when you kind of start rating them as to know, you know, I think there's a top ten pick. I think it's the first rounder. I think this is two or three. I think this is back in or he's a free agent guy that you know, there's parts of his game that we like and maybe you know there's something down
the road. So when you're when you're looking at it, it's funny, you know, is there one hundred and fifty guys that are going to be meaningful contributors in the NFL? No, they're not draftable, as in something about their game is exciting.
Maybe you know, we talked earlier about maybe they're mallers, you know, maybe they can move people, and you're like, we need to work on them in this space, or maybe their head butters and and they play out over their toes too much, and that's something that we can work on and fix. And you know, once you get towards the back end of draft a ble quote unquote players, they all have their fall flaws and and so to the sort of the top rank guys, and they're not
perfect players out there. So understanding what you need, what you what your system requires and demands is important because, uh, you look at the Eagles or the Ravens and their ask is very different than you know, some of the drop back teams where you're going, well, we need somebody who can who can pass, protect and five man pro constantly, or do we need somebody who can you know, root out and move people because we're a run first offense.
So I think understanding a player's profile and then fitting them into your system is super important.
Uh.
With that said, Aaron, there's not one hundred and fifty draftable players that you know, you look out there and say, hey they can help us. That just doesn't exist.
Okay, you mentioned some of your friends that are coaching, which are you here with the Saints and then you mentioned the Eagles and their system, Well, Kellen Moore is now here as well. What is this line going to look like? What do you think are going to be the things that they're really valuing in their alignment based on the scheme.
Yeah, so it's going to be interesting to watch because I think you look at coach Moore's history and it wasn't just one way of doing things. I think he did an incredible job of trying to match scheme with personnel. And now that he is at the Helm, will you can kind of craft both to each other. You can draft the players that you want to fit the system that you want, and you know, when you find guys like Fuwaga from last year, it can fit in almost
any system. If he were you end up in Baltimore, which is run first, he would fit there because he's he can play with that kind of power. Or if it's you know, more of a dropback system with five man protection in the old Pete Carmichael days, he would be he would be equally as adept in that type role. So there are a few guys that fit both type systems, and you know it's it's pretty broad of me to say it's one or the other, and there's a wide
spectrum of what you're looking for. But you know, you'd love to find as many Jaures as you possibly could where you know, he's a big, powerful guy and you could fit him into anything, whether it was run first or you know, we threw the ball sixty times a game when that was the anomaly, and he was equally as adept. So you want to find as many of those guys as you can. They just don't grow on trees.
So I think to get back to your question and Aaron, Uh, it'll be interesting to see what what does the more system look like and what type players is he looking for. You know, there are still some needs across the board when you look at this roster, and I don't think we have a very clear cut starting five in this offensive line. And I'm sure they would love, whether it's the first, second, or third round, to be able to add a couple pieces or at least one to kind of solidify that group.
You would be vouching for another high draft pick offensive lineman and get your guys some money.
I get it well, just historically, you look at the Saints, look at the look at the where they have placed their value, and it's all first and second round guys. Knowing that, in my opinion, you can find starter quality players at other positions across the offense, UH specifically wide receiver. If I'm going to single one out wide receiver, tight end, there's guys that you can play in as a part of your system that can be big ADS value ads.
I don't think that's the case. I don't think that without paying a bajillion dollars you can't just find those in free agency and feel like they're plug and play and ready to go. So you look historically at the Saints and under Mickey Loomis specifically, and there have been a number of first and a handful of second round guys that have come in. With that said, you know I just listed we talked about jahree and Carl Nicks,
Zach Streef. There have been a number of fines that later in the draft where they've evaluated talent and they've been able to come in. But I would not be surprised if one of those first five picks that they have in the first three rounds is dedicated to help up front.
The seams have done a good job of evaluating talent and finding people, even undrafted players in a lot of other roles. I appreciate all of the time the insight that you got, and we'll look and we'll see what happens April twenty fourth, when the draft kicks off.
Yeah, it's going to be exciting. I know. Anytime you get a new coach, there's some buzz that surrounds it, and I'm a part of it. I'm excited to see what this team looks like under Kellen Moore and the direction that he starts to take this organization.
When the draft comes around, I am too. It's going to be interesting to see what type of players and then what it all looks like when it comes together this fall, I guess. But we'll be there earlier with training camp, so I will see Aaron.
Let's call it summer. He'll be right back out there.
I know, right here in Metarie. We're having training camp here, so I will see you back in New Orleans.
Absolutely, get your sunscreen ready.
Yes, thank you, all right, thanks, Eric. Appreciate John, and we'll be seeing him again very soon during training camp. Not too far off end of July beginning of August. Next week, I'll be back Monday, Wednesday, Friday with our continued position breakdowns. So thanks for tuning in and have a great weekend.
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