Taught drop in the afternoon. Hey with Todd and Dropped. Oh, yeah. Alright, Todd. It's great to be back doing the show... Little bit later. I think we're gonna be doing this later edition of the new media show until the end of the month and and then we'll be back to, I think our normal time, normal scheduled time, first week of August. Yeah. I I depart here on the on the 20 eighth. And I'll be back back in well, you know, in my temporary studio. Yep. Well, I'm sure It'll be a good good
studio. You've got all all all this really good equipment, so you should be able to get back up pretty quick. Yeah. It's not gonna be the same as what you're before. No. And and and I have a plan and you know, and hopefully, I'll have everything fully engaged in about a month, but, you know, I'll be able to do shows no problem right off the get go. Won't be as, It won't be as fan as it was before, but it hasn't been fancy for 2 months.
Yeah. And what you're doing right now is a good example of what's it's possible for all of us now. Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's easy easy to easy to move around for sure. It seems like... It seems like every time... It seems like every time I start my show. My glasses look like they're crooked I don't know what that means does that mean that, you know, her face crooked or the glasses are or business You get knocked around or yeah Well, you know, these are older glasses. So...
Yeah. Probably probably probably both of the above Yeah. Well, now, I mean, we're kind of in the countdown to podcast movement, coming here in, kind of middle to, towards the latter half of of August. And and I did book, and I don't know if you saw the email, but I did book Dan Franks to join us next Wednesday to talk about podcast movement and what's going on down there. Well, We haven't talked to Dan in quite a while.
Yeah. So so it'd be great to have him back on, but I gotta I gotta a commitment that he was gonna carve out some time for us. So I think that's great. It'd be great to hear more about what he's planning to do, podcast moments. And And there's also been some, you know, some news that's come out this week as well. And as you could see from the...
The title slide of this, this episode is gonna be really kind of trying to drill into, kind of both of ours use of what we see happening in the podcasting space or the trend lines that that that are moving us towards kind of, certain things over the next, like, maybe few years or 10 years or something like that. And I think I think usually, Todd, I think we've had this ability to kinda see the the big trend lines in the podcast industry and be able to, kinda foresee and
throw those ideas out. I I don't think that we've always been a hundred percent accurate on this stuff, but I think a lot of the ones that I've kind of identified here are, you know, I think we're seeing stages of those happening right now. So I'm sure most of it won't be a big surprise to everybody, But the big news, I I think this week was an update to, overcast, and I thought we should definitely give some...
Kudos to to Marcos, who's who's been kind of a single handed ship on that that app on ios for many, many years, and and it's good to see that he has an update on its tenth anniversary of his app. So I don't know what if you think about that, todd. Well, you know, he's... You know, and he basically said, please, everyone that's a user, give it a few days before he's... Before they start putting him on blast on mh. On what it looks like gives
it some time. I think what it's... What it appears to have happened is he's been able to, you know, update the code based. And you know, he's got something now that he can easily develop and add to. You know? When you have tech debt, you just like any other platform, even in creating apps. It definitely 10 years a long time to be on the same code base. So Yeah. Definitely, he he has a platform now in in which to... I am I would assume more than likely be able to roll out more features
going forward, much easier. So, Yeah. 10 years And well, I haven't seen too much feedback on... I haven't even looked for feedback on Twitter to see what people are saying, but, I'm sure people are. Also, I just ate, Rob, I do wanna note. So just everybody knows. Because of my work schedule, I typically work until about 04:30 in the morning here, and Mh being 8AM here. Someone said last week, I looked a little h. Yeah. I've had about 2 hours of sleep. You're right alright.
Yeah. This has been a crazy time zones. Scheduled for for us to be able to do this show. Yeah... Yeah. Normally sleep until noon. So yeah. It's I apologize if I look a little sleepy face on video, and a little more crusty on my voice, but And I try to wake up, like, 30 minutes prior to the show start, but, you know, after only being in bed for, you know, really about 2 and a half hours, it it
It is what it is. It's like it's like doing the show before when I was in Honolulu and doing the show at 7AM. Remember those days. Yeah. I think you had end up, like at 6AM or crazy. Get but already and stuff. But it was easier because I had slept all night, You know, It wasn't like I was, you know, only been in bed for 2 hours. Yeah. And back then, I was on the West Coast, So Yeah 3 hour. So you... Right. Yeah. But anyway, I just wanted to
add that there. But... Yeah. And Know, I think, the overcast, you know, they still have a, you know, probably the highest, independent percentages of any app out there. So you know, congratulations to to Marco, Yeah. I think so too. And and I guess, this is the the document that was shared. I've I've got it up on the screen here and it just... It basically announces the tenth anniversary of overcast 1 and it's happy to to launch a complete rewrite.
So it's 10 years and coming, but it looks like what's new is a much faster, more responsive interface. More reliable and more accessible. So it sounds like he's built in probably the latest, libraries that apple's had in their their kind of code base. And so in a more modern design, which is basically they're it's important thing to do now as well, and improvements throughout such as undoing large seeks, and new playlist priority options and easier
navigation. And I guess there's there's more that's part of that as well. What what's what's not? I'm not quite sure what that means, but most features overcast, is still overcast. So it's... It it's kinda like he's he's changed any of the core. I think of it. I think it these are just all improvements. Yeah. So so and I think that's it's great. He says, about the business, I'm still 1 person operation with no funding or external ownership, serving only my customers.
So... That's that's saying something. That is saying something, you know, he's been running this thing for 10 years. And I... I'd say it's probably the second most maybe oftentimes maybe more respected podcast app than even Apple podcast at at at times in the past, especially. Well, if you also consider that... He's been able to survive and live, you know, lot of apps can't. You know, they don't make it from a financial standpoint. So... Yeah. He's... He's gone through some changes to his apple
over the years. I think he had some kinda of more premium features in the past to unlock, you know, certain functions in the app and things like that. And I think he backed away from that because I think it was a hurdle to adoption of his app, and I think... So he's he's had to keep himself kinda lean and and and mean to be able to, you know, keep it all going and I think.
Yeah. Yep. But that's, you know, my it's good on good on him for getting that done and... I don't know if there's any 2 features in there or not. Be curious to know the question. So... Yeah. Yeah. He didn't mention any in the in the the announcement here, but I'm sure we'll be hearing more and as people use it. They'll... Deals those things. Yeah. If they exist.
So... And that's another topic that's been coming up this week that I I've been kind of involved in some threads on exxon is is the value for value, kind of controversy right now around whether or not people think it's gonna it's gonna liver die or how it's gonna evolve to to evolve past this so L, L kinda of question mark. You know, again, value for value goes beyond just the the crypto piece. And, you know, and I think there's there's a way. Yeah. There's a way ahead here, and
you know, it's... And we knew that they were a weak link in in the chain, and, any podcast today that is once their soup... Wants to participate, you can still use Git, but there is more hurdles than there were before. So, yeah. They're they're they're working a solution, and I feel probably within the next month month or so, probably, things will be back on track. But It was a big ups swing to get podcast
engaged in the very, very beginning. So I I guess the main thing to remember is A value for value doesn't just, you know, value for value, a big part of it, especially on the crypto side, was not necessarily the ability to earn a huge number of dollars. It was really about... The engagement of the audience members through, the the podcasting 2 apps and being able to instantly boost and send a comment to a show. Now, today, we are we are live, with value for value.
So, you know, from that perspective, you know, I'm pretty I'm pretty bullish. People continue to send us streaming stats, so I I think that for those that are are using it, currently, there's not any impact, but overall, over time, there could potentially be I guess, for a better words, a little slower adoption in in the in in the next, you know, in the next few months until we we get a a new system in place, which I think has has been pretty much figured out.
Yeah I would think that the only real way that you could if you're in Us, that you could probably get a L account would be if you use the Vpn that now the Us. All blueberry customers can still get a get A account. It's not a problem. All they can. Yeah. They can in the Us. In the Us. Yes. Absolutely. Oh, Okay. But they have to go, but they have to go to a little a different setup than what was initially.
Offered. And it's all about Custodial and non Custodial wallets and I don't wanna get too much into the into the weeds here but, you know, basically, Us government is worried about people moving money around without knowing who it is and being a banking entity and 1 type of wallet that you can basically take care of yourself, you are the you are the banker as your own individual person essentially.
Probably get that wrong, but, yeah. So But, for now, at least, Blueberry customers can still get a get all account, but they have to go on to their new system. Which is, you know, less than perfect. Yeah. And then 1 of the limitations has been just... The support of being able to fund the initial kind of trough of, you know, Satoshi through the current financial system. Fountain and pod fans of they all have their own system in, getting...
If you're a listener utilizing, 1 of those 2 platforms, you you're easily be able to def fund as a listener, the ability to be able to send sat back to a podcast. But the bigger challenge for podcast now is you you kinda have to pre fund your wallet to a certain extent to make sure the transactions go through. But, again, we don't wanna get too complicated. I think there's a way ahead. I think Adam is figured out a way to go and
they're working du. Matter of fact, I got a message from, III asked, Adam, you know, where they were at in testing and what was what was happening and said, I We're working on it. Mary Oscar is going to post a demo. He's from Mary Oscar from from fountain. He says would bit of luck about to get a lot easier for podcast or especially listeners. So you know, it's forced the... Index to think and to,
I guess, for better words adapt. And I think in the end, there'll be some some pains initially, you know, kinda of switching around, but I think once we do, I think it'll be a much better much better solution. Does that mean that we're we're gonna be likely moving away from Satoshi? No. Nope. Satoshi are still gonna be... Yeah. Okay It's just a new way of... We don't have to use Git A anymore. That's the key. And it'll be much easier to get dollars. To Satoshi.
And vice versa. There won't be, as as much difficulty with within the... Making the transactions happening. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. They can do that and make it easier for people to sign up and Yeah. Get get on board and get, you know, a pre funding of sorts. Because I. That's how I got started with it. I got I got pre funding from from pod fans. Yeah. Yeah But I my my thought was initially
that maybe we would... And I still think this is a valuable option is, you know, the ability to buy tokens, with cash and just have a token system, but then there has be all kinds of... You have to have a clearing house, and you have to it's not as clean either. Nothing is easy. So I think this new satoshi thing is gonna work out fine. To Okay. Well, I'm excited to hear what that is. I No. No. We should have Adam on or some or the... Yeah. When we get to the point where were able to
adopt. Something, you know, again, they've just within the last couple of weeks realized the the the opportunity. Hey, 1 thing I do wanna say is that kind of ironic, Dave Jackson sent 22 22 Sat a a couple of weeks ago. It's And he said Todd, do you got me excited I'm sick of the Bs as well, but Dave's made him move Dave Jackson's off to Mh. Doing something else, and he's being pretty mum about it, But I guess we'll find out in about 11 days.
Yeah. And I also heard via email today that Podcast has made... Some big moves here too and getting additional investment and getting some more leadership down, on their on their team that that's coming from a couple of new guys that have, I guess, some interest in Southeast Asia and other parts of the world that are going to come on board and have more in provide more resources and maybe
grow the Podcast platform more. So that was publicly announced today, so I'm trying to figure out a little bit more from Chris on that, because, obviously, I'm involved in the hall of fame with him and So trying to understand what these changes are gonna mean for for his? They... Do they name who the people are? Yeah. Mh. Yeah. I don't have it in front of me right right right now. But but, yeah. I mean, I think it's probably
probably makes sense to... For Chris to come on after Dan, and then give us kind of an update on... Yeah. Give us kind of the low what that all means? Right. Yeah. That'd be good to good to do that as well. But it... It looked like a real positive thing. It looked looked like Chris Was really excited about.
Having some additional support on his team and and trying to build out a more, kind of, you know, I think a more organization per s. It's not like he hasn't had an organization behind him, but just a a deeper bench of sorts. I think is what he was. Kind of implying. Yeah. Makes sense. Well, good for him. Yeah. So I'm I'm definitely excited about that because, I mean, I'm I'm heavily involved in the pot event as well. So so it's it's great to see. You know, some positive things like this happen.
Right. Right. Definitely a good thing. So there was also another topic because it came up this week, in relation to the podcast index, and here, let me pull that up at as well here. And, you know, a lot a lot of people are very very familiar with this this tracking chart off of the podcast index dot org website that you can go to and and see how many total podcasts in the index and and how how many shows, you know, over the last 3 days? How many shows over the last 10 days?
And I got a a tweet thread from Neil V, who... Was was raising a a good question because it... It's not really clear. I mean, if we look at this page as shows published in the last 3 days, Now that that... I've always meant or understood that to mean episodes. Published in the last. No. It means. It means the number of shows that published a new episode. But it doesn't say that anywhere. But it it is. Though shows published in the last
3 days. So... Right. So that's what raised this this this question thread. About, isn't that new shows rather than episodes though, because it it it's it's not clear on that page so I sent a text message to the Podcast index saying, you might wanna put on there this a little bit more clarification that this is this is shows that Published to send new Yeah. Because it doesn't say that on there. And 1 thing to...
And 1 thing to understand too is the index that does not automatically include every new Spotify spam show that basically launches. They does have a minimum number of episodes a show over at Spotify has to produce beef... And I don't know what his benchmark is, but they... Maybe it's 7 or something like that. But they have... Before they're even able to be listed in the index because it was just...
Throw on the numbers off because, you know, it basically, you know, several million dead shows and if someone would come in and do a test test test and that was, you know, counted as a new episode. So they've been... Out of the picture for a long, long time. So and it would include a brand new show, if it if... If there is a brand new show that would be included in those numbers, that because those numbers are updated, essentially. III think every 24 hours.
Mh. You're just much pretty guaranteed that, you know, over time, The trend line is that there's, you know, 326000 shows currently are publishing a new episode. In you know, in the last 30 days. So I don't think there's much you know, you you you you can you can look at data 25 ways to Sunday. You know, we had a a little hiccup in our directory and where some shows were not getting updated as often as they should've have been it
with us pulling Our rs asses feeds. So, you know, they came to light when we're getting ready to do our, often monthly stats report. I said, hey, and who something's are missing here because the numbers are down. So we didn't put publish that number Matter fact, I got a a published that post tomorrow, basically looking at that, his we we knew our number was wrong, and we didn't wanna skew our report from month to month.
So you know, we we kinda see a similar number as well because we have a we have a very full, Mh. You know, of directory of shows. So it's it's. It's let's let's just say 300000, and you know, give or take, some percentage points here amongst friends, and still the numbers are dramatically down. Right. I mean, frankly, even the total in the index number is is off by hundreds of thousands. Well, I don't know what their total number is right now in the...
In the index. There's a spot where we can find that if I can find my link to it, and we... This is a this is actually pulling live from the site. It's not a screenshot. Oh, I know. But I'm talking about... But that isn't the the total number of... Oh, yeah. The index, Yeah. So there has been a cleanup of the index. Again of those... That's what I was trying to say is that it looks like that there has been significant cleanup that's happened
and was... My understanding that the cleanup really only happened if the our assess... Feed link was not operational. Well, there's... It's just like us. We have criteria. You know, the Rs feed is down. You know, we give it so much time to come back up, and then same thing goes through. And same thing goes with media. The media is gone we give it so much time before we we take the... And we run a script basically every month that that does that automatically I'll see if I can while we're talking
here. I have a an Xml link that basically... Well, it has all the numbers. It basically has, a whole list of stuff. So... But again, 4 4200000.0, in the in the total index. And, you know, Apple doesn't say there's 4200000.0. So this includes a lot of sources includes music feeds includes stuff from... So there's there's just a wide variety of of feeds there. Yeah. And Apple doesn't maintain any kind of a current, like, daily
count website on the... How many podcasts in there they only do it via, you know, like, a press release or something like that. Right. And it's very rarely updated. I think the last number I saw was, like, 2 and a half million. Yeah. So they're actually doing a a deeper kind of filter against. Against the content out there. I'm I'm exactly sure what their filter criteria is, but I also know that not everybody submits their podcast to Apple, either. That's true.
And, that may becomes as a shock to some people to to realize that that's the case, but that's been the case for many years. Yeah. But because Apple has created kind of a hurdle, AAA bigger hurdle to get your podcast into their catalog then like, let's say, a Spotify has. That that has been a little bit of a barrier to people submitting their shows over there, Yeah. And sometimes people just wanna be in Spotify. But the problem with only wanting to be in Spotify is that there's, like, a hundred
other apps that they're missing out on. Well, and and there's also a challenge too, Spotify, you know, there's we... We're seeing this from time to time. And there's... And I I don't we have anything conclusive. I think we talked about it before, but spotify may be turning off Rs assess feeds to, well, the new... They didn't know well, they did. 1 thing that's interesting. They they had the Apple block tag. You basically saying, hey, don't list me on Apple turned on and some of their feeds.
And then some of their feeds weren't even turned on. You know, we've had people come over to, even at say, hey, Our podcast is not in your directory, and we said, well, you know, you you don't have an Rs feed. Do you go turn it on. And maybe that's just content creators accidentally turning it off and not knowing the ramifications. Of that as well. Hey, by the way, Dave made a comment the 20 ninth in
the chat here. He said, the 20 ninth So no hints, dave what and what you're gonna be up to my friend? I mean, I... I don't know for Sure because they've they've been pretty tight lip about this, but the coincidence with Pod and him is it is is not... I don't know if that's a coincidental. Oh, is he doing something with Pot? I don't know. I no idea. I'm just thinking that there's a coincidental... Timing here. Well, there was a... You know,
there's this an... He he said something to the fact it's more along he's wanting to do education. Education Right. So okay. We're just guessing right now The... Yeah. We're... Pretty... I We're we're speculating, and it's probably you know, maybe there's gonna be a, you know, a big announcement by some company or something. So, anyway, congratulations today.
Yeah. And it's kind of interesting though that we we should mention this at as well as that just the last couple days, there there's been a lot of staff changes over at Lips. Too well, they've been founders. They've been... They're... They've had a lot of people exit. So well, both both Dave and Trevor, the 2 founders of advertised cast that then got... Changed into lips and ads. They've they both left the company now. Yeah. I saw that announcement in bad news. Yep. And now Dave's left. And so
I don't know if there... In there's a change over changes Rob Walsh gonna be the last man's standing over there? Well, Robin El. Right? Yeah. Those are the... Nope. Those are the 2 hall fame that are still there. Right. Yeah. So so we shall see. You know, what's gonna happen over there, but, changes are definitely a foot. Dave says any news on that service you are talking about that helps with ads from radio, Todd was talking about had to call with them this afternoon, in fact. So yeah, soon.
Soon, we'll we'll have, working out the particulars of the deal. Or what it's worth? So. The site's public. So I could probably share the site. But I'm gonna try to maintain some exclusivity as much as I can until we get the deal done, some someone can find it. Tom Webster knows. The knows the site. He was the 1 that introduce me to, you know, the owner. So it's not like the site is private, but it's had limited rollout, and there's probably only about 400 podcast currently.
Using the platform, none from blueberry as of yet. And it looks like our arena posted, a good question here, what does value for value mean to you, Well, just to summarize it, it's basically just that a change a value kind of platform that enables all the parties involved in the a podcast, to, you know, share and receive some level of compensation there or There's a... Time and efforts it it's... There's a website called value for value dot info that you can go over and look at.
And the model, at least the podcasting 2 model. There is a philosophy that is basically and I'm just gonna read from the website. Excuse me. Me 2 hours of sleep as creeping into my voice here. It's a monetization model, a content format in a way of life. It's about freedom and openness. Connection in free speech, sound money and censorship resistant. So it's it's the frozen monetization model, it's... In the the the the Website here says, let's get 1 thing all
the way. Monetizing non scarce information is difficult. The default monetization model at the online world is advertising. A model that realized relies heavily on surveillance and game analytics. Next section of about his content format. There isn't 1 content format when it comes to value for value. When it comes to podcasting, including your listeners into the feedback and content creation loop is tried and tested and by saying the way of life, Valley for more than again a monetization game.
It's a lifestyle. It's a mindset of abundance and fairness, a new way and of looking at value, value in general, but digital value in particular. So Again, value for value dot info really kinda lays out the mindset of what value for value is. But for me, what it really means is if we provide you valuable information. Our insights of what we... You know, on this show here, you know Rob has tried to keep it a little more structured here of recent.
But if we're providing value to you, we would love value back in 1 of 3 ways. Your time, your talent, or your treasure. So the treasure being a donation to the show, whether it be a Paypal donation or whether it be a send us a check or live streaming stats back to the show with boost, as an example, we did get a boost here just a few moments ago, came from Matt. He says, Thanks, guys. Hope you're enjoying this summer. 51 50 sat that he just sent us as in just way of instant feedback.
To the podcast. Now the time and talent is, you can help us with research. You can help us with social promotion whatever you wanna donate to the show and your time and talent is really what it boils back to. Some people don't have time. Some people are more followers than wanting to help. So the value can come back to the show in a cash donation. Mh. So, you know, that's kinda where eye lay in this show. And again, it's not...
And and I know some people in the valley for Valley we're are gonna cringe when they say donation. But sure, You're you're providing a donation back to the show for the... Whatever value we're providing And I think because of the way we do this show, it's kinda unique. It's our perspectives. And it's not necessarily... A tech show like, I do twice weekly where that information is freely available for multiple sources,
I do some commentary on that. So is is that does that show follow along and not having enough scarce information to make it more valuable probably. But again, if if you provide insight on your content, And again, it's it it is truly a... You have to have a real dedicated, thought process if you're gonna implement this because you have to ask people to give you money. Yeah. Matt says, Matt Made maduro says, did you catch my video about v for
v? That would be a good thing to link Matt in the in the chat here. Yeah. I was gonna put it in there too and see if I could post it. I have it here. Yeah. So Again, I think that everybody. But again, Yeah. I always tell people. This is just 1, of many opportunities you would have as a content creator to to earn money. You know, you maybe you wanna turn on programmatic. Maybe you wanna have an advertiser. Maybe you wanna create premium content.
Maybe you wanna create content that is released early that doesn't have any advertising in that people pay for them without advertising. There's there's lots of ways to monetize. And, the best part of it of, of this is you choose what you wanna do. No. Rob and I have, you know, gotten some nice donations over the years, but it's not a basis of the podcast. Yeah. It's it's basically a a model, you know, a donation. Model that can be utilized. It doesn't transfer typically a large amounts of
money. It's usually small small transactions. The numbers can look kinda large, but that doesn't translate into a lot of, you know, dollars. Right. But 1 of the things that I've always kind of really, really liked about it is kind of this this ability for a show, and the consumption platform or the listening platform as well as the audience to exchange Satoshi with each other, which is a form of a of a digital cryptocurrency of sorts. It's it's a derivative of, bitcoin.
But to be able to have that exchange. Right? And these streaming satoshi is it is a very interesting model, that it is based on how long you listen. Right? So you're gonna contribute so many satoshi per minute. Yep. Of how much you actually consume the content, which is a way of providing kinda like a stream of value based on you know, what you have received from that
show. If you listen to half the show, then you only contribute, you know, the equivalent of how many minutes the half of the show, But there's something that's really key here about the value for value model in streaming sat and donating Saas via boost. Everyone wins in my... Mh. Basically, my value chain, Let's just use that word. It's probably not the Mh. Value blocks, I can set up splits. And if you're using fountain, they Right. They take a fee. So they win every time you do a boost,
they get a few percent. They get a cut too. To get a cut I get a cut. So I I have set up splits where in this show, Rob gets 50 percent, I get 50 percent. It's automatically split to our wallets. And then I can set up splits to third parties as well. For some people have 10:15 splits in their value block to be able to send... Some donations other people at Blueberry. We charge a 3 percent fee. So how...
We we basically, our our part of the value chain, you know, especially because Power pressed today is, about maybe 1 fifth of the customers that use Blueberry are actually hosting with us. The others are hosting with Lips, pod being, cap whoever, and we earn 0 dollars from them, yet, they get to use. So... But by them enabling value for value. We're able to earn just a little bit from those that are using the plug in without having, paid us a dime. So, you know, some people may argue you
I shouldn't take a fee anyway. But we believe in this, basically everyone winning, you look we'd look at Marco on overcast, how has he survived? And you have to look at his model on his app, reoccurring subscriptions, you know, you you you don't get the app 1 and done. If you'd had been 1 and done, he would have died at the the apple would died 7 years ago. So we have to be able to feed the entire ecosystem. Folks that are using the Op p 3 stat system. You know, they have a a
wallet. You can send them value by putting them on a split. Right. In a bunch of services. So, Yeah. And the index also gets a split as well, and they use every satoshi that comes in to provide basically open channels, and that it's a technical term, you have to put let's say, 250000 sat on the channel or a million sat on the channel to be able to...
Ensure that the transactions, you basically gotta have enough money in the bank, essentially to make sure the transact comes through is able to transfer from 1 wallet to the next. She, if you don't have enough on chain, and, basically, channels,
a transaction could actually fail. So this is where it makes it difficult for the non geek to really with this new thing that I'll be doing to be able to participate because they have to basically put some stats on a chain to be able to ensure that there's gonna be a transaction gonna, you know, transaction is gonna make it through. But again, this valid for value is goes way beyond Stats. But 1 beauty of it is, everyone in the pipeline wins.
Yeah. Todd that, that video that was mentioned by At Made. I've got on the... You got it in the link screen here. Yeah. I've got it. It really screen. It's a it's a pretty long video. So I did post a link to it in the Youtube stream chat. Off of off of my channel. But I think we can play it for for a minute or 2, and you can get an idea of what Matt's talking about. He's...
It's basically a conversation that he's having about podcast folks in the industry you know, keep getting value for value wrong. So this is the... I don't know if you can hear it or not. I can't. But go ahead, Rob. Just let it play. I make sure the stream can hear it. No. I don't... I'm not sure it is. Yeah. Because hear... I don't think it's going to. Yeah. Yeah. I don't but anyway. Just... You know, I'll I'll include that and grab
it here. I'll grab that link and I'll included it in the show notes today, so that people can can can listen to it. Yeah. But, you know, it's it is a It is a... It's a different type of mindset. I I think that's the thing here, and it's... You know, and I think 1 thing that I have a knowledge is you're not gonna get... You're you're not gonna go to dinner when someone's sending you 50 sets a minute. That's that's not dinner money. That is
That is... I'm listening. I'm here. I'm appreciating what are you're doing. I'm staying for the entire 90 minutes because I can see 90 minutes worth of, you know, 50 sets coming in every every 90 every 60 seconds. But the booster are also part of the engagement factor where they don't have to do an email. They don't have... They say right in the fountain app or 1 of the other apps 1 of the other new podcast podcasting apps at podcast apps dot com and just...
They... Just like I send a text message, but you send some stats with it. So And if you love something, you can send a hundred thousand sets. If you're pissed off at somebody, you can send them 5. With a message, and that's the beauty of it. You put the value that you desire upon the... And what I would recommend if you're a podcast out there, and I'll just do a pitch for Adam and Dave, they run the index, purely on money that comes in in dollars.
So they pay the server bills, everything on the cash donations, the on chain, fiat funds, well I shouldn't say on chain, fiat funds, paypal donations, checks that go in, So, I personally have a reoccurring monthly donation that goes in underneath my company name, which is new media productions. And then, Blueberry does a, monthly donation. The folks at at rs dot com, usually do a monthly donation, same thing with the folks at Buzz sprout.
So those cash donations that come in along with people they're doing monthly is what is running the index, and they don't take any money out. That all goes in a bank account. Here's the more surprising thing. They have the expenses of the servers that they're able to write off. But at the end of the year, Dave and Adam, believe it or not, are taken a a big hit for the podcasting industry. They pay taxes on that money. Mh. And they They again, they take it out of hide.
It's it's if, you know, they've made, let's say, let's just say, 20000 dollars in donations for 1 year, and they only had 11000 dollars in, expenses or whatever their expense. I think their expenses are now running about 7 or 800 dollars a month. To run the whole index, which, you know, it's true server cost, then whatever profit remains and whatever tax bracket they're in from their regular J b's, And Course Dave has a regular job.
Adam does the, you know, his his podcast, and the no agenda show, So whatever bracket they're in, they have to write a check at the end of the year. So they're working, not getting paid and paying taxes. I don't think most people know that. So Yeah. Whatever the profit was for podcast index, Adam and Dave split that and both wrote tax checks. Dunk for sugar. So in honesty, you know, you know, they didn't set up a nonprofit or any of that stuff, So they really... I I think at this time,
besides maybe being an Llc. And, again, I'm don't quote me on how their financial structure is. They're taking out of hide. You know, they're paying, they're paying, and imagine you go into your your spouse and saying, okay, Honey. I need to add an extra 2000 dollars to the tax bill for this thing I'm working on every week, that we have very few tax deductions on. So... Yeah. And I hope they're able to take tax deductions and wherever they can.
So I don't know what... I would imagine they're able to take the expenses. Oh, yeah. The regular expenses is insurance. It's the tax deduction. Sure. But, you know, if they're not doing travel or if they're not, you know... There's a whole bunch of things that you can write off meals if you're doing it... You, if you have... Of a meeting, official meeting involves a meal or, you know, those are those are true tax deductions underneath tax law of But I imagined that they...
Because they're being very conservative and trying to make sure this thing has enough legs in it to to... I think they're up about 3 years 2 to 3 years of being able to run if no 1 gave another dime today. So Marco was doing a 500 dollar donation, for a long time as well, and he wasn't the... He hadn't even adopted any 2 tags yet. So that tells you the type of support that people have for this. And so just, you know, that's just to see if if if Marco...
If this puts Marco in a better position to be able to adapt and move to that. We'll see. Yeah. We'll see. So, you know, a lot of this work is, in expanding the ecosystem and taking control back, is being done for pure love of podcasting. And there is a lot of people involved in making this expand. You look at, pod fans and Sam city. Seth. And, you know, he's got a business he's trying to build. And I think, you know, recently,
some post I've seen. He's, you know, I think he got concerns of, you know, can he can he make this a go of it and will it pay the bills? Is he's in start mode. So he's there's a lot of people and that we're not saying that as a as a listener as a podcast, that you need to, you know, make sure our businesses survive no. But I think if you look at all the apps involved, This is why we're asking people to use new podcasting apps. These folks have skin in the game that are going to...
Potentially and probably leads into the next topic that you and I wanna talk about, Rob is where do we go as a podcasting community. Where do we go from here? What's gonna happen over the next couple of years? Are we going to crawl in a whole and allow the narrative that is being prom throughout the industry, you know, our podcast going to be on spotify and Youtube and that's it. And have these gatekeepers, and we, you know, the every listener of this show.
Can be an evangelist and helping educate podcast the importance of open Rs. If we don't evan as a community. This precious thing we have, could go the folks that are not given podcast a damn penny. Well, I do think I agree with, Todd. I do think that there is a danger that the... This tension that's been building over the last few years between open and closed. Is is a real thing. You know, it's definitely been growing and building.
I think we all know who the the players are on on all these sides. But there's definitely an interest. A commercial interest for closed for closed. Yeah. Right. The the commercial interest for Open is is not as strong. And so yeah. If if people shouldn't be... If podcast really understood the ramifications at stake. Right? They would not tell their listeners to listen on Spotify. They would not. But Spotify is a popular platform. Used by a lot of people.
But you you you basically, by by promoting Spotify, and Youtube. Mh. You've sold your audience 2 to those market tiers, They're being marketed to across Google across Spotify, and you get 0 of that. You get 0 0. You look at artists. They've just in invoked some new closet Spotify. They've raised the rates for the service. And they're paying creator a music arts less. Yeah. So, you know, I I laugh. A few years
ago. There was somebody that was... I think we even had him on the show that was convinced a The spotify was gonna be the savior and was going be paying podcast. Well, the only way that's gonna happen is if all the podcast band together and It never happened. But but we as... Podcast because that's who's listening to the show.
You know, we need to look at what's happening with the they're they're they're talking about revenue already going down on podcast that are advertising over there because this new rule and the heavier ad counts and stuff like that. So when when Todd gets on a bandwagon of talking about open rs asses It's pretty special what we have. And we can't we can't forget it. Right. Let's let's go into our list of where we think the future is.
Yeah. Yeah. I was hoping that we could kinda run through some some pretty high level concepts that we can all think about as we think about, you know, kind of the the key tenets of change or improvement or, you know, some level of of kind of adaptation that could be happening in the podcasting space over the next, you know, up to 10 years,
is the thinking here. And I think we are, like I mentioned earlier, I think we are seeing some of these evolutionary trends are already start to show show, you know, show themselves. And so some of this discussion, and this has always been the case on this show where we talk about more of an evolution than a revolution. Yeah. That this medium has going through for the last 20 years and Todd and I are both coming up on 20 years in this podcast pd. Be short this number. Right? I'm in
September and Todd's also, what was it... October ninth as well. Yeah. I'm October ninth. Right. Yep. Yeah. So, you know, these these changes have been kinda growing, but some of them are new. Like the technological advancements around Ai, and and things like that that we're seeing having increasing impacts on the podcasting space. I believe are going to keep accelerating. I don't know that there's gonna be a big pullback on Ai, utilization in podcasting. I think it's only going to
accelerating accelerating. We're... Right. Where we're gonna see it is get into more aspects, what whether it's... I think we're already seeing the very beginning of it with transcripts and clone voices and and being able to create, you know, derivative content, from from the podcast that we have now that are human created. What we're seeing is this growing utilization of cl of voices and and being able to create content that way
as well. And then the use of Ai for analytics, which I don't know that we've seen a lot of that quite yet but I do think that that's probably coming. I don't know what do you think about analytics dot around using Ai to analyze data, you know, I've I've got a list. And yeah, in a to do road map doc, but it's doing Ai with stats, some of the stuff in stats is just pure math. You know? It... It's not... It's is discounts. Yeah. And and and presenting data different ways.
But when you get into trying to analyze You know, everyone would... You would wish that your your show numbers were pretty steady, you know, that from 1 show would have a thousand and 10, listens, the next show would have a thousand 50 and the next show would have 1200. Well this not that simple. It just... It bounces like an an accordion. So Trying to come up with scenarios to be able to pull certain data together and do analysis on it is not...
Well, if I know what the questions I want answered Right. It's easier to do Ai stuff, and it's, like the podcast awards that are going on right now. Last year, I normally pay about 5000 dollars to have the podcast awards basically, audited and the and I asked 7 questions, in in those from that audit. And I was able to use chat G last year and get those 7 questions and more answered, from the database table from the podcast awards voting.
And I was able to back that up by going in, you know, doing the doing the math because, again, it says math problems. And and validate that I didn't need to pay this data analysis company anymore 5 grand to do, to do analysis. So I think as we know what's questions, podcast want answered from their stats. We can then start using Ai to see if we can extract that information in a a quick and easy way. You know, as things... 1 thing that we're working on is we're gonna release next Monday our Ai
highlight clip creator. It's basically kind of a poor man's headline liner, and It's still not perfect, but it's about an 80 percent solution. I'm pretty happy where it's at compared to where it was 3 months ago. We didn't release it because it just, you know, the results weren't as good as I wanted to be. But now we're at a point now. And we're gonna put disclaimers. On that tool that...
Okay. You know, we're kind of in a 80 percent solution here, But what it's gonna end up being is on And what our goal at blueberry was, for any of this stuff we're building, I want podcast to be able to quit paying for third party services. Now that's gonna piss a bunch of people off. But I don't want you to for an Ai service. I I don't want you have to pay for x y and z that you're paying now. You pay your Blueberry hosting bill.
Maybe a few add on cost. Based upon whatever we're gonna add, and we want you to save you money. So, you know, my end goal is to make it cheaper her podcast to do the things are doing today in podcasting. And you look at the the new app that was just released by Adobe, The Adobe Podcast. Beautiful tool. If you're paying for Adobe. Right. Same thing with describe beautiful tool if you're paying for a script. Right. So this Ai stuff is gonna just flourish. Yeah, the Ai enhancement of analytics.
Really kinda requires deeper data. Right. And that is really where the the rubber hits the road on this topic. You know, it's a it needs a deep kind of spectrum of data. Right? Which isn't always available to straight Rs assess based data. There there's a huge amount of data there. Yeah. But there's... You know, if you look at, kind of contrast that with, let's say, the amount of data that Apple gets or spotify gets. Yeah. But they're not gonna share you with you.
Well, I get... Realize that, but they're gonna be able to tap into probably more Ai analytics. Yeah. Based on listener behavior, engagement preferences, a lot of the same things that we're seeing happen on, like, a Youtube platform, where they can get really deep into this and it is possible to use Ai to optimize titles and descriptions and artwork and things like that using Ai to optimize that. I think you can do that with a normal
podcast today. Mean it has, you know, But you you you don't see podcast going back and changing titles on shows very often. Yeah. I think it's a common thing on the Youtube side. Of of things for people to change artwork, and especially the episode artwork and then also titles and descriptions, to be able to go in and try different scenarios. Right? Not just stick with 1, but I guess, you know, it it's just a different publishing
kind of environment. Yeah. But but Ai is going to be able to offer suggestions on those areas increasingly, and and and rank those options for for those publishers. So I think over time, again, it's... We have to determine what questions we want answered. And once we get in... On the analytic side, you know, what is a question we can answer through just not doing a math problem. Right. You know Know, we're we... We... We're talking about a new a new feature that we're gonna be introducing
a couple of weeks. At Blueberry within our stat system. And, You know, might... The question always comes back to me from the devs is, okay. This is cool, but, you know how much this is gonna cost us in compute power. Right? I because because now we're gonna have to do with these extra calculations to provide this data. So for me, you know, that ends up being a, you know, it's it's real real money, you know, when you're when, you know, in in real server resource.
So every little new feature, every new little thing that we add, that's another query, the database he use and another query that can go sideways too if something, you know, if if we don't catch something. So Yeah, to use And I don't think a lot of people think. And this is not Ai compute. This is just pure, you know, my Amazon bill. You know? Right. And how many tank talk? We're at the number 2 on my list.
How far just to let you know. And and this speak of the 1 we talked about, and I I believe was last week's episode about ease of content creation, you know, the... These are trends as we look to the future that's driving hopefully driving podcast or growth. Because what 1 of the big questions was is that we look to the next couple of years, are are we gonna see... A growth and expansion of new content creators in podcasting.
Now granted the the definition of what a podcast is has been in flux to some degree in what people are think out there, but access and ease of content creation is is the is the big factor here. Of, you know, enabling people to to create shows and to create content online the the tools and the equipment and the software platforms are getting better and better and easier to use, everybody's striving for that
increasingly. And then the growing of multi format content too is is isn't another thing whether or not popularity we we'd like that or not. That is happening in the content creation landscape right now where people are creating audio, video and live content. You know, the argument is, you know, what's growing, what isn't growing, what's the optimized, kinda formula? Is it audio only? Is it video and audio or is it live? Plus video and audio, which is... You're doing live?
You're probably doing audio and video. But, But that's the crucial question right now is the is the growing expansion of what people are seeing as the as multi format content, whether it's short, long form. That there's all sorts of options now about creating content. It's not like the old days where it was just, like, you know, mostly audio or just video now it's, you know, short form content, long form content, you know, audio, you know, packaging, audio and and and video and all
sorts of different ways too. So I think those are significant trend lines too as we look to the future, And and, you know, this next 1, number 4 is growth trends. The increasing number of podcasts. So we're currently at over 4000000. Now a lot of those shows are archive shows. But oh, some 90 percent of them or something are archive. Right. Right. And some some folks are projecting.
Whether or not this comes true or not, that that we may double the number of shows over the next decade, The question is are we gonna double the amount of active shows? Or are we gonna double just the amount of total shows? Are we gonna go to 8000000 because we've gone through so many shows that I've converted into as being archive shows. Yes. You're right. That's gonna continue to what happen. Though though, I think we have seen a pullback some degree on that total number, that 4200000.0
podcasts. I I think just like a year ago, it was, like 4 point, to 5 or 4.6 or something like that I think lot of that was d duplication in the and the Spotify purge. Right. Right. But, you know, I think to be optimistic about the future, you know, are there some trends here that are going to help the expansion of podcasting, You know, I I would love to see this medium continue to grow. I think that, like we've talked about in last week's episode.
I think that there is an upper limit to the listening side. Of how many people, you know, will adopt this medium. Now how many content creators get involved in this medium is is still a fairly small number if you could if other other mediums. Right? If you can compare it to everything else, this Right. This is you know? And when it is, and this just be frank. There's a lot of distractions out there. Yeah. And some people pick a platform and that's where they go. Go Instagram. They go
Tiktok. They go Youtube. They go where they may go and and being on 1 platform and being successful on 1 platform. Takes a serious focus express especially if you're an independent content creator. So I, this is where I go back and talking to podcast. I'm, like, Okay. You started podcasting for a reason. And, you know, the medium is unique in that. If you consume podcasts, like, majority people do
via listening on your... And your... You with your mobile device and earbuds, this is the most intimate medium there is. And it's a lean in medium. And people lose sight of that a little bit, and they get wrapped on the hype, even in our newsletter, which I think went out this afternoon, I just said. Okay. If you've been thinking about video and as stuff I've we've been talking about on the show as, you know, please, understand what you're getting into. And right. And do do your research and
don't fall for the... Basically, the... Don't be that that big, 18 inch bass that's seeing that shiny lure that is going through the water and say, oh, what's over there, mom and and go grab the lure and then end up on someone's dinner plate. Say because this medium still is super viable And some people are gonna say, oh, you got it. Yeah. Yeah. You can do shorts. You can repurpose content. You've been able to repurpose content podcasting since the beginning.
Right, you you've been able to do shorts in podcasting since the beginning, It's nothing new here. You know, people have been doing, technically been doing shorts and podcasting probably longer than shorts been on Youtube. So Right, you know, that's... Because how did we promote our podcast by a snippet, you know, a little audio snippet. So I I think that, there's a method to the madness.
And if you're if you're gonna do video, then just be prepared, I I think what's be honest what's gonna happen, and I I don't wanna make a prediction that is gonna make people freak out. I think we'll have a much higher failure rate of shows that do video. Because It is not as easy as everyone thinks. It's much hard cause. Failure in your... Fail most people's failure is growth. Most folk people quit because they're not gaining it. What they consider a significant audience. But I go back to the
the idea that if you... If you have a thousand people listing to your show, do a Google search for an image, it looks like a thousand people and and print that out and put that in front of your computer. Thousand people is a lot of people. Hundred people is a lot of people. 5000 people an incredible number of people. You get into the the... Of our atmosphere of 50000 plus. That's a stadium. Of people that you're reaching.
Again, it's just like anything else. A lot of people are have challenges building and show podcasting. I think they're gonna have, the same challenges on Youtube. So just because you're adding video does not mean your show's gonna succeed. You have to have sustained superior content. Right. Number 5 on my list is... Global expansion. And I do... Yeah. That's... Wonder if a lot of this growth that is being forecasted is really linked up to
global expansion. I'm sure of of podcasting more so than expansion of podcasting in North America So as you look at even localization as a as a derivative topic of global expansion is that really gets around, local languages, local culture, Ai based,
localization efforts of the content. Now you know, even even Youtube has announced some support of taking English and translating all the languages of the world, and making all the content that's in English available in local languages all around the world. So you can kinda see an indication of that but it's not so much a podcast kind of solution here, but but I do think that there's going to be opportunities for
podcast to actually... Take advantage of that ability as well, I think as you look to the next couple of years with Ai translation and things, and then just overall market growth in in the emerging markets around the world. Hopefully, we'll see expansion and and growth, but I think North America has kinda reached us, and is rapidly
reaching a saturation point. And just like with cell phones have reached the saturation point, So are we really adding a lot of new users when we're over 70 percent right now, 80 percent. What is the upside to new new users? New listeners are or new podcast? Oh, no. New new consumers of podcast. Well, Rob. Come on now. 8. There isn't deeper limit there. No. I don't think so because here's the thing. You have you have... I mean, a declining population.
But you have new people that are being born every day. That are going to be Climbing number. Yeah. It's still. I think overall time, the number will continue to increase. Just because of it is gonna be slower. Well, you you're you're never gonna probably ever hit a hundred percent. But Right. That's my point. But again, not everyone watches Youtube. Not everyone listens... It has a Tiktok account. So again,
what is that set? Refractory, the United States, I mean, I have a tiktok account at the end of the year. So again, it it... I I think from a cons a creation standpoint, creators are being being born every second. Yeah. I'm gonna talk my cruise I'm talking about. Consumers of this content. I think it's gonna suck. It'll still continue to grow. It may not be. It's it's had a slow growth entire time. Never been an upward trajectory. Oh, it's been between what, 2 and 2 and 3 percent 4.
It's some years. Since we've gotten up to 5 percent a couple years. Yeah. So, you know, it's been slow and I think also... Outside of the United States, outside of North America, get access to the data and and a smartphone data plans has been expensive and for some hard. Yep. So if if those... Other parts of the world can open up on access to data and and data speed and cost scenarios for data. I think that'll help grow,
grow podcasting as well. During my week, when I went over to Thailand, the I bought an Es, the data over there was incredible. I mean. Is it fast? Oh, it's really fast. Yeah. It's like, 300 megs up down it was insane. You had a lot of data though. I mean, Oh, yeah data plan or something. I got, like, hundred gigs for 7 days or something was crazy. So in in some countries, you know, in in Europe, I think as well, their mobile data plans makes American data plans look like trash.
And then again, there's other parts of the world that's not. You know, developing nations. They're still issues. Yeah like in Africa, I think it's... Yeah. It's definitely a challenge. Yeah. Just because it's a big continent, you know, and you know, maybe Elon is gonna solve it with the... Star... I don't know. But, you know, it's a it's a huge, huge deployment challenge. Yeah. I think he did get a a patent. I think for some technology that that would enable, kind of, more small
device. So, he's searching satellites now that are self capable. So mh. That'll be, you know, I think all of them are trying to do that. So... But does that fix worldwide data problems no, not at all. But because the carrier has to be engaged. You still have to have a data plan with a carrier and blah blah, blah.
Yeah. We'll see how that that develops. And also, number 6 is the influence of Ai Ag, which we haven't even evolved into that phase yet of artificial general intelligence, which is really high level intelligence of the of the Ai. Beyond where we are today, chat Gp is not E. No. It's not reached that level at all. I think we have quite a ways to go to get the E. Right? They may be working on projects that are not. Publicly released yet that maybe approaching
Ag but those aren't public projects. They're they're saying 2 to 5 years. So it's not that far away. Yeah. No. And then the the next part of this is Ai agents, which are... Being able to... Each 1 of us having our own artificial intelligent agent that will kind of... Draw gonna... I don't know how that's gonna affect. Podcasting per s, but, you know, I it it could help help a podcast. Yeah. I couldn't manage their show, manage how it's produced, how it's put together,
how it's... How the data is gathered that could be used in the program. I... You know, there's already stuff out there that... Voice by the Ai or is it voice by the human? Is this the question? There's already platforms out there that are designed to help you with your social promotion, those platforms are going to adopt stuff where you probably won't even have to write your copy anymore. It's just gonna, yeah, it's gonna suggest copy you approve it and it'll
go. That's just gonna... You know, that's gonna make it. But the problem with that is also gonna be any of this Ai generated stuff is we're just gonna have... So the noise floor is gonna go up so much more. There's gonna be so much more content with whether it be promotional... Yeah. It's just it's, you know, it's it's gonna go off the charts. So I think where do we as... Consumers of that dr of data, where do we say I've had enough? And and reg progress back to to basics because III
think this... There's just this onslaught of content coming that people are not gonna know who generated it. And if it can be trustworthy And it does raise this... This question is there gonna be a hierarchy of the value of content. It is the content that's produced by humans gonna be perceived as higher value, then content that's generated based on Ai technology. I would hope. Human that, you know, in...
Well, it all depends. Anymore, but I think it depends, you know, once you get up to artificial general intelligence and beyond, you know, No. That the whole the whole world changes then. The quality of the information that's made available through this through Ag maybe far beyond any humans ability. The danger is is a... Shit in shit out feedback loop. So, you know, it... Because the challenges is if you've got all this content that's being index now and make up these models.
And it's all of a sudden producing a whole bunch of content, and then the model goes back and reg renegotiate that for the next model. You it could absolutely unravel itself. So we have to be careful that we don't have to be mindless bots out here. It goes back it goes back to my favorite saying, you know, use of Ai is not a a substitute for common sense. Right. Well, and then personalized listening experiences,
automated editing and production. Now granted. I think we're kind of moving into that era right now. Yeah. This of the, now, automated editing and production is not sure that autumn automation is definitely in play yet on that. But Well, some some of the automated stuff is pretty bad right now. Well, automated or more just... Ai Ai based editing.
I don't know that it's automated per s. I mean, I guess it depends on what your definition of what automation is mine mine would be is that It basically gets utilized as part of, like, a publishing process and and humans don't oversee it at all. Oh god so good. Yeah. Well, that's that's probably where it's going ultimately, and then Ai driven audience engagement. Now this would... This could possibly be, you know, engagement with audience comments, making...
You know, those kind of live experiences could be done with Ai bots. Okay. Represent the the thoughts of the host. I don't know. I mean again how as far is gonna go. Right? Yeah. Hopefully not that far. But someone someone will experiment with it. Oh, yeah. Well in content curation and discovery, you know, the the... The look listening platforms is it gonna, you know, who's gonna experimented with at first Right Rob. The porn industry will be first to adopt and most of this stuff.
That's true. Well, it always is the first. Right? Yeah. They're are the early adopters and, you know, so and and and and also the market tiers. You know, the Internet marketers tiers and selling you a 99 dollar course that's gonna change your life. You know, The right. That they will take advantage of all. They're already are. They're already can, you know, already producing huge amounts of trash. Right? And what are the ethical considerations here of of utilizing Ai in Ag
in in in podcasting. I I don't know that the industry has a good handle on what it's standards I I think I think content gonna need to... I think there's, you know, and I've said this on a prior show. I think we're gonna have to start marking content. If you've used Ai to replace words on or an editing... Maybe not even Ai. If you've used an editing package to replace words that you did not speak. I think that I think that needs to be flagged. Mh. And I got a lot of pushback on
that. So, oh, well, I shouldn't have to flag that. Well, if you rigid... If you said x, and then you change it to z, should you have not say this has been edited with an artificial voice. I I think you should. Yeah. But if you actually typed it into a transcript. Then you are creating that content. But I think you still have to disclose that. That's that's that's the big question is, if the host actually typed that new word
into, let's say, a transcript and that... Added that word in audio to the national audio experience is that's still a word that I came up with. I I didn't voice it, but I came up with it. See... Oh, I think you have to close it. Yeah. You know, maybe, I don't know. Yeah. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know that anybody's wrong on this, more to do with what is the the listener going to accept. And is there gonna be a certain amount of acceptable kind of deception?
What's gonna happen? Yeah. In this area. Well, you know, he just... Someone can take, you know, 10 hours of us speaking, and they could recreate the show today on some of the platform. Right? Right? And I do also think that Ai could be used to really create. And improve discovery experience better search, better recommendations like that. It's already be... It's already happening. Yeah, Podcasting has fit pretty bad. You you look at our show notes. Yeah. You know, our
show notes are mark... Remarkably better than they were. Yeah. Right. Yeah So... But again, I think there has to be some disclosure here, you know, when when stuff is being edited. And if you're replacing stuff that you did not originally speak, and you used some artificial voice to add a word. And I think that I think you have to disclose that. Yeah. I think we're, you know, and it
gets back to what I just said. I think that if you came up, So let's say you used Ai to come up with your your script for your show, and you basically input that Ai generated script That has to be complete. I know people. I know people are redoing that. Right. And and disclose Process. Right? That will use my voice Yeah. To voice that. I didn't come up with those words. No. Those were generated by Ai. I know I I could be seen as a deception. I know of 3 shows already is doing exactly that.
Already. Yeah. So they're actually prompting, open. They are there they're using Ai to write a script. They go in and edit in the script, and then they apply it to whatever that... There's a service that does both voice cl, and it records a podcast for them. I I know... I've listened to it. And 11 labs or 11 that you're using 11 labs. Yeah. And they're not disclosing. They're not the spill. Lot of those voice clones,
they sound pretty good. And the question really is is technically, you cannot have copyright on Ai generated, If you if you tell it, okay. Let's create a story on, you know, the history of blah blah blah. And the Ai comes up with a a script. And that technically cannot be copyrighted. How much you have to change of that script to be able to call it your own, that jury still out on that. But technically, and I think you have to change a lot of it to in order to obtain copyright.
That's why for me, if I'm doing any type of show prep or like that, I I come up with talking points, I don't come up with any script that I would ever read. So Yeah. It's kinda like an outline. Yeah. Shorts. Right? The topic outline that you... Yeah. Use as a reference to keep you on. But again, I know people that are creating words. I know people created, they have an Ai podcast that does Ai news. And basically, they use Ai to scan.
Like, you know, 10:10 10 new stories, and then puts that out in the the author's voice as if he had recorded it. Right. So automated, they don't need he... I just push a button. And the whole process is done through scripting and the episode goes out, and the podcast are sleeping. No. Has had note... So this is where we have to be careful of junk, and we have to be careful of disclosure. I think it show like that has to have full disclosure.
It's being completely automated, and maybe I'll give a little ground if you've just edited into this. Script and and changed a few words, maybe we don't need to market that. But if you are creating whole wholeheartedly content with Ai I think that has to be... Well, we you do requires it. It has to be a hundred percent disclosed. I believe even even a Youtube platform has a flag in a and requirement that you have to identify. Yeah. Certain content that's... We don't have it by podcasting yet.
Right So and then, you know, as we look to the future, Todd about utilizing social platforms, social media platforms as a primary kinda of promotion platform. It's not so much a question about Ai even though Ai could be used how it generates already post into social Right. We're already creating clips with Ai. We're already creating highlight reels with Ai. That's that's the blueberries he's doing right now. Right I just wonder what the future of, like, Facebook and and the social platforms are.
I just get the feeling people are kinda of pulling back from those things. Well, everything christmas I just wonder if the trust will come back again. That's problem. The problem with face booking has been for a long time is it feeds you what it knows it's gonna drive your dopamine hit. Booking. It's it's not feeding... I... If I wanna go look for you and what you've said recently, I have to look up your profile. I have to go get my mom's profile. I have to look up my aunts
and uncles and kids. I don't see anything my kids post. I have to go find it. Have to go look at their profile. So Facebook has completely abandoned its original tenant. So now it's just, you know, but yet, here we were streaming live on Facebook today. Right. No. Yeah. I mean, there's still a lot of people over there, but I do know a lot of people have been pulling back from it. I know I don't use it as much as I used to. Many years ago.
I'm definitely not in the podcasting groups like I used to be because no 1 is willing to do any homework on their own. No 1 is willing to you know, every little stupid question is being asked. People wanna be hand fed stuff now. So It's it's great for the trolls that are there promoting their services, and, you know, a, you know, who's... Which how should I use? Well? You look at the same people promoting again and again and again. Well, there's their paid promoter,
making sure that they're promoting the service. I... I don't even hardly participate anymore in those those those commentaries because it's just a pile on of... The same thing again and again and again and again and again and again and again. It becomes a little redundant people don't did it take time to do their own research. Yeah. And then the other big trend line that that we're seeing too is in increasing importance of listener engagement.
And when I say that, I'm talking more about community building. Right?
This discord reddit, these these these community tools that are out there that people are trying to aggregate and consolidate their audiences around to create deeper connections and deeper relationships and ultimately, even premium type of, communities as well as another layer to this too as more paid participation platforms, and it does seem like that there is a interest in podcast and creators out there that are wanting to shift away from the advertising model and
move towards more direct funding type of models with their with their communities that they can... Drive maybe content to that community that they don't have to be as concerned about about community guidelines and and being d demonetized if they talk about certain topics on the well. On those public platforms where if they create content on a you know, on a private community group, they they can typically share what they want. If we're, already way past time today, Rob.
So maybe we're gonna to save some of this list, But going back to something just triggered me, Did you see the testimony that Ben Shapiro made in congress over the brand safety stuff. I did. I've been keeping a close eye on the
brand safety topic. Even if If you guys may not like ben shapiro politics, but I would recommend every podcast, listened to his testimony and understand how sc ga is, and really how in my opinion, how evil that system is, again, you have individual gatekeepers that that are making determinations of what is safe and what isn't safe and the biases just because people are human that has been built into ga. I I think I I think every podcast needs to at least listen to Ben's testimony and
Dissect think about it. Think about what he has said. And of Course has a conservative view, but some pretty it's much bigger than a than 1 0, yeah. But just a side view. It's... It it's gonna impact everyone. So I just It was. It was a pretty powerful dialogue. And just convince me that we will never, we will never adopt ga, at Blueberry. No. There's no way. I will not... I won't do it. Right. And just article off my off my rob green dot com blog, this
is probably almost 6 months ago now. On this very topic, and I go into a great detail and link to ga and link to other out external resources that you can go and read yourself to actually see what's involved in all this. And, and it's it's been something that I've I've had an interest in for for a while now, and it's and it's it's an unfortunate development in the podcasting space. I mean, it's been happening in, you know, Youtube and and Facebook and and other platforms for for a few years now.
And it it's really and be honest with you. This is where these closed systems Mh. Are pick winners and losers and where... Yeah certain topics that if they identify your podcast that has said certain keywords or keyword phrases in your content, they will They will basically exclude you from any advertising... Doesn't nothing not just advertising, Rob, being surfaced, the content being buried. It's it's not just about monetization. It's about...
It's a... Another level. Right? Well, it it is of the main part of it right now because they are... They're doing this on platforms that are advertiser supported, they don't wanna present this type of content for those that are not paying, They have to keep the ad dollars rolling in, so they bury this content. So... And they highlight the content that that... It adhere to the content guidelines that are
specified for it. Actually, if you wanted to see a testimonial on this from a very big podcast, actually, just do a search in Youtube, for Conan O'brien and brand safety, those those Keywords, and you'll come up with a an episode that Conan O'brien did
in in video, it's... Like maybe a 20, 30 minute conversation where they actually talk in great detail about brand safety and suit ability, and and it's an interesting conversation coming from a very controversial comedian about his concerns about how how that brand safety platform is impacting his comedy. Now, it's it's it's it's you have gatekeepers that are picking winners or losers from an log. That is, has human biases in it.
And, you know, some individual in an office is deciding which content you you as a consumer should be allowed to assess access to. Right. Right. So open Rs. There is no such restrictions. Well, so there we go. That stays that way. Right? Right. So the question is is Spotify using garmin and bearing content on Spotify? We know Know Youtube. We know Youtube is.
We don't know if apple's doing it. But it doesn't matter if apple does because you you don't go looking on apple people don't discover shows by searching on apple. Yeah. Well, that That situation probably needs to be improved. I think people... They need to be better at searching. Well, Or like, you can find any show on Apple. You're just not... Find specific episodic data. Right. Because if you know Right. They're not indexing that stuff. Yeah. While they're indexing and
they're just not searchable. I'm sure. Well, Todd, you're you're you're right. We didn't make it through my whole list. Yeah. Of the top. Top trends that are moving through pockets. I think we made it up almost through 8. I think that's your list. I... Some of these Be, like, are these really trends? I don't know, but we can come back to the next show. Okay. Yeah. Well, next show is gonna be mostly, Dan Frank we'll see if Dan sticks with
us for 90 minutes. I I doubt he's here the whole 90 minutes. Okay. We'll see. Alright. Well, I think we talked about a lot of the important topics around what... How the industry is evolving and and the direction that it's moving in many topics here they're certainly more to explore. There's no question. Yeah. That is for sure. So I hope everyone enjoyed this marathon show today. Yeah. It's not unusual for us to go 40. Yeah. Yeah 40. Yeah. Not not... It's being
more than norm recently. So. I'm gonna go crawl back in into bed here in a minute. So Alright. Yeah. Everyone you can reach... Me geek news at gmail mail dot com at geek news on x. I'm at at geek news at geek news dot chat on mastodon. And of course, Geek Central. And of course, if you're not subscribed to the show, please do so, follow or subscribe. I guess that's the proper way to say it now. Right. There's there's blueberry dot com. If you wanna check that out. Yeah. Definitely do so. And...
And my website is here as well. And my Youtube channel. And if you wanna go to new media show dot com, you can catch all of our archive episodes as well. And if you wanna wanted to reach out to me, I'm I'm on email rob dot green at g mail dot com and I'm on x as well at rob Green. And so Todd, it's great. I think it's... So be back next week. Yep. Same time. And then following that, back in August will be back to our afternoon shows again.
So I'll be back in a time where it's not 02:00 in the morning here when I'm, you know, trying to do a show with you. Alright. Sounds good. Alright. Alright, buddy. Thanks so much. We'll see you next time. Bye.