Todd and Rob in the Afternoon. Afternoon delight. With Todd and Rob. Oh, yeah. Hey, Rob. Here we are. We're back with the, new media show. I had to think there for a second which which one we were, which one we're doing. You're right. But, hey, how are you? I'm doing okay, Todd. It's great to be back on the show again and and, just, you know, trying to move into fall here a little bit in what I'm thinking about and what's coming in the in the
next few months. So I'm starting to think more about Podfest and as far as on the conference side. So Yeah. That's that's always a that's always an interesting event to start thinking about in the context of the fall, but I also know that, or in the winter actually at that point. But, you know, there's other events that are coming up too, like, CES and other, you know, the NEB Show, which
is coming up soon. But I don't think there's gonna be a lot of involvement of podcasting at the NEB, in New York this year, but it's gonna be interesting. Yeah. So I am opting not to go to CES this year for the first time in Wow. Okay. 19 years. Be honest with you, I need my head down on the grindstone here. I just don't have the extra time with the Christmas and then coming off and then an extra week and, so, I'm first time I'm gonna miss it. So we'll let the tech podcast team go on
without me. Matter of fact, I was corresponding with the CES rep today. Scott and I were and basically said, see you next, you know, follow on year, but I I really need to, head down here. One thing is going on is I think my gate is pumping a little bit. I hear a little bit of pumping action on my compressor. So that's new. Not good. I'll be able to deal with it, but you probably can't hear it. But I can hear it my ear. Just I think I could hear a little bit of it sounds like a little bit
of a static sound that Yeah. And maybe if I back off this thing an inch. Yeah. That's that's weird. I didn't touch anything. So but it's yeah. I can hear a little a little static. Maybe I'll try to adjust it, but there is a crap. Let me hit this record. Oh, the other one's recording. Too many buttons to hit right now. I've got my old Mac Pro, trash can that I've had for, oh, man, 11 years. Yeah. The heat sensor went out in it, and all it wants to do is the fan runs a 100% all the time.
Mhmm. And, sadly, the that machine was literally 5 feet away from me. Before it was 40 feet down the hallway, And it was never an issue. So it just got to the point where it was annoying the living crap out of me. And and there was some software that wouldn't run. I couldn't update because basically, it was it was end of life. You know, you still got some Apple updates. But I was having problems with Premiere and other software was basically say, hey, you get this this chipset is no longer
supported blah blah blah. So I got I guess I got my 11 years of money out of that thing. So I bought a Apple Studio, baseline model. And now here here here is where you're gonna giggle. When we, encode this show, when I encode this show, it take it used to take, like 23 minutes or something like that. How long do you think it took to encode this show with that new studio? You're encoding the video? Or Yeah. Once I encode the video, from the master down to, basically, the show output.
Probably probably less than 10 minutes probably. 3.3 minutes and 15 seconds down from, like, you know, 20 plus. So, yeah. From it. So now, you know, I I don't have upload speed, but I have I surely have, what do you wanna call it, processing speed. Yeah. So that's good. And, also, I made a change here where I'm no longer on a boom mic. I'm well, I'm on a boom mic, but it's different. It it comes in underneath. So it comes in and comes up. So before it was come over and come down.
And the reason for that was is it was I'd had problems with camera views. So if you can see the camera view, it's better. Right. Okay. I see. Yeah. Better now to come in that way. But I do see some people flipping that and and actually having the boom arm be kind of, like, below, not above. Yeah. Mine would not do that. So, basically, it comes wind. Okay. Comes off the table, has a straight bar that's about 18 inches or so, and then another extension
that comes up. It's really slick, and it to be honest with you, it is less intrusive and gets out of the way. That pumping went away. That's weird. Okay. Well, I don't think it's there anymore. So, anyway, whatever was going on solved itself, but I still probably will need to tweak that. But, yeah, I think the studio now is 99% in, and I have to remember. I
got myself a note now. There's a up and a down on the screen because last show, you were way up there, And I was looking way up at you instead of straight at you. Right. So it looked like I was looking off into space, you know. Yeah. So now That's a common common thing. You know, people have to mount their cameras somewhere, and it depends on how how large their monitor is if it's sitting on top of it or sitting next to
it. But I did hear or or I have seen, actually, is a better way of saying it. New cameras, that are being kind of promoted online that, you know, it's almost like they they have this arm that hangs right down in front of your monitor. So when you are looking directly at the monitor, you're actually looking at the camera, but the but it's still a webcam. It just mounts on the top of your monitor. So it has the actual camera lens down in the middle of the screen. Oh, that's smart.
Yeah. Oh, send me a link to that. So what I do now is behind me. So for those of you that are doing video, you don't care. But for the tech show, what I do is I raise the monitor up. It goes up about literally 16 inches And then I look through I can look straight to go over my content that I'm talking about without having to look down at the monitor that's here. That's my problem is the monitor here is I'm looking right now is down
and the lens is right there. Now everything behind me when I'm doing the show is right at the edge so it actually looks like I'm looking just a little bit above the the camera and so what I am gonna actually try for the next show, I'm gonna get everything set up, and then I'm gonna turn this monitor off because I keep going back and forth a
little bit. Yeah. But at some point, I'll get myself trained where that any if by switching screens, you know, I can do a transition that will, you know anyway, it's just little stupid things like this. But that Yeah. It is. And that's, one advantage of having a, like, a teleprompter. Yeah. Well, yes. Actually, mount the camera right behind
your your image. It's the same idea as what I was just talking about about that arm that hangs down in front of your monitor that you actually look directly at when you're doing your content. The problem is I'm doesn't cover up the screen. Yeah. But the problem is sometimes I'm reading Nice. I'm reading stuff off a web page. So I don't know if the teleprompter usually has bigger letters. So therein lies a challenge. But, anyway, just some of the stuff that I'm doing here with
Yeah. With the studio and getting things dialed in and doing things different because guess what? I don't have anymore. I don't have a wall behind me. So so making it before, the wall was the limiting factor. So now I can kind of move stuff around at will and and not, I guess, for better words, not be as impacted. So from that regard, things are better. And, yes, you are you're wired on Starlink today. So, what I have done is I've got the 2 cables for the Mac Mini labeled on the the switch
around the router. So now, if things go sideways and well, whenever the fall happens and leaves go down, I might be able to put you back on the other point to point system. But for now, we're both on the stream's on Starlink. You're on Starlink. We'll keep our fingers crossed. And I'm at 9 I'm at 900 gigabits for a whole month. So I'm just about I'm my billing date is today.
So I as long as I don't go over a terabyte today, I'll be under the 1 terabyte window for for SpaceX, and that's what I was worried. So Yeah. No. I can see that. But, anyway So you sent me a couple of, couple of topics that we might wanna cover today, and I thought, you know, a couple of them were intriguing, and I wasn't that that familiar with it. But I can do a little bit of research on them. And the first one, I think we both promoted pretty heavily was the ugly baby concept
and podcast. Yeah. And Yeah. You know, what it is is I really have a handful of things. Content and format issues, marketing and promotion, audience engagement, distribution and platforms, monetization and revenue generation, production and technical issues, branding, analytics adaptability, competition and saturation, different external factors,
and just being the workload management. And it sounds like, oh, that's a whole bunch of high level things, but I've really been working on trying to figure out as we talk to content creators and they say, oh, I've got an issue with my podcast, I'm like I'm like, okay. Again, number 1, what is the goal of your show, and is the content clear and concise to meet that goal? Is it focused to make that goal every single episode? If the goal is to build a big audience, are you doing heavy engagement?
Are you trying you know, all these things that go along, is it about building your reputation? Is it build your funnel? Whatever. And I try to get into the deep ditty nitty gritty and then break it down into these categories. Talking about insistent quality, irregular posting schedule, what goes along with that? Is your episodes too long where you're not engaging people, you're wasting people's time?
There's just so many different elements that could cause a show to stagnate or not grow or move forward, and there's never just a single issue. My my easy go to is go to their website and look at it and say, well, you know, people can't follow or subscribe to your show just by landing on your website. But that's just one of, like, probably 40 different things a podcaster can do or needs to do.
And what I really kind of what really tied it in was we had this discussion about the diary of a CEO at Podcast Movement having 60 people on a staff. Well, you and I don't have time. We don't we can't afford nor are we big enough to have 3 people on staff, let alone 60 people on staff. So, you know, what are things podcasters can
do? And so I have these I caught the ugly baby talk and that kinda kinda ties into stats sometimes too, but it's like, are you are are you a real personality or do you deliver your content like a robot? Are you giving confusing or vague episode titles? You know, it just it runs the the gamut. Do you even have have you even spent 10 minutes on a marketing strategy? You know, have you found where your tribe hangs out? How's your visual branding? Is it are you leveraging guests that you have on
it? Just, you know, I I got this list that I made. And and, usually, when you start going through this stuff and talking with content creators, their eyes glaze over, and they can only do 3 or 4 of these things. I can't do all of them. Well, I think that's that's the bigger thing that I was curious about this whole title, ugly baby, I guess. And I don't think we've been really clear on why that term is used, to to describe what you're talking about here. And maybe it's the wrong title, but
well, I'm not sure. I mean, I think it it has application here. I think to me it points to like a podcaster creating something and being really, really proud of what they created, but not really understanding that externally. Maybe it doesn't look as good as it as you think it is. Right? And and I think that's that's where the analogy really, really works.
And it creates an environment where, you know, you as a leader of of a podcast distribution and hosting platform, Todd and and and myself for for many years is having sometimes, difficult conversations with podcasters. Yeah. And being able to, you know, I think you dived into a lot of those topics right at the beginning here
of how complex this is. And I think that's one of the challenges that we're facing is that the shows that are being very successful, like the diary of a CEO, It really exemplifies the complexity of the of the medium today. And it's not just about podcasting. It's about creating, you know, a media company now. And oftentimes, that's kind of how these bigger content creators are starting to think about, this type of online content, as mainstream media kind of fades into oblivion.
We're kind of replacing people's expectations, of really, really high production quality podcasts. And I think a lot of people that are creating podcasts are just don't have the experience, the knowledge, the resources to play at the level that is increasingly becoming expected. And at the same time, I don't wanna make people feel like, oh my god. I gotta do all this stuff. They're just gonna quit. Well and I think that's You know? Todd, I think that explains a lot of what we're seeing.
And people are getting frustrated. People are getting feeling like they can't do everything that needs to be done. And it's getting more complicated. I think AI had the promise of making things easier, but I'm not sure in a lot of ways it has quite yet. And because in some ways, it maybe has gotten in the way of quality to some degree. So so I've adopted something my grandmother told me my late grandmother told me many, many, many years ago.
And it applies to relationships and applies to podcasting. Yeah. It's not what you love about your podcast or what you love about the person that you are with. It's what you can put up with. You know, it's the it's the it's the things it's the things that you don't like, but you still love your podcast. You may not like that you don't have the best album or episode art. You may not like that you don't have the best branding positioning. You may not like your analytics.
But to turn that around, and this is what I try to end conversations with, is that, okay, we can do all these things. Mhmm. You know? And, you know, you you you can't eat a a whole cow in a day. You might be able to eat a pie in a day, but you can't eat a whole cow in a day. So you have you have to take this thing a little chunk at a time. Right? And embrace what you love and then try to enhance what you hate. And also remember that you have this beautiful audience that's already
listening to you. People are those that are currently subscribed. And then we go into that that mindset of, oh, I only have 500 listeners. And, you know, and and then I, you know, I I this is the trick I do. And matter of fact, let me go to Google images. I know what you're gonna do. Yeah. And, you know, and I'm, you know, I'm in the call with the the individual and and I say, you know, show me 500 people, and Google Image will will throw up an image that that, you know,
you know, crowd sizes. Here you know, here's is what 500 this is what 500 people look like, and this is a virtual picture. But Yeah. You know, if if if we use that as an example, then what happens when you are in an you are sitting backstage at an event, and you're about ready to walk out to a gymnasium where 500 people are sitting down and waiting for you to give a presentation.
And it goes back to this mindset content creators have to get into that they have to visualize their audience because if you have 500 people listening to your audience, you you better damn well prepare as if 500 people were listening to you. You would not you would not just, like you and I just did today, pull the mic up and and go. We would you would have a good plan, and you'd went over 2
or 3 or 4 or 5 times. You may even have practiced a little bit and contemplated in your mind your talking points and how you're gonna step through this to go up and stand in front of 500 people live and give a 45 minute or an hour presentation or an interview, you're gonna prepare harder for that.
So when I tell podcasters that, I get this so we spent times telling them what they can do, what they should do, and more importantly, prepare for an audience that is rec you know, many, many shows reach that 1,000 listener barrier. Many do. Sure. It's not unusual. So visualize that. And if if you have to print that image out that you search and put it somewhere where you can see it before you get go on your show, and you'll have a whole different attitude.
Mhmm. I think it's so we sit behind a microphone or you and I microphone and camera, and oftentimes, you you try to do it more than I do and you're doing we're doing a little more prep for the show than we used to, but we have to take on account that there's 5 figures of people listening to this podcast. Yeah. Yeah. It does put an additional kind of, I don't know if pressure is the right word on it or or preparation that typically should be done.
And this topic can kind of came up around doing an interview of sorts. And what's different about the show that we do is occasionally we we we do interviews on the show, but it's it's usually and what's interesting is the dynamics of the audience when it's just you and I. Right? Because we we really dive into topics at a pretty deep level because we
have the time to do it. Yep. But this this topic of doing interviews is is really emblematic of this question because it's it's the combination of listening and preparation. And I think one of the skills that most people don't realize you really need to have to be able to be a successful podcaster that's doing an interview, like a 1 on 1, conversation, is that there is a lot of preparation for that conversation that's done in advance.
But that isn't the sole thing that you need to follow is your preparation. What you need to do is you need to be listening, you need to be thinking, and you need to be, off the cuff too to some degree. And I think that's that's what we're seeing. I think the skill that's needed is the ability to to think on your feet, to think when you're in the middle of a podcast, and to have a conversation, not a rote interview, right, where you ask a question, you stop talking.
The the person you're interviewing, does all the talking and all you do is ask these pre prepared questions. I don't think that's that's the era that we're in right now. I think the era that we're in right now is like what we do with the show, and this is why audiences are attracted to the shows that we do that are just you and I. Because the the the conversations that we have on this show is actually where the value is. It isn't really as much with having
an interview. Right? Yeah. Because those tend to exclude as well as include. Right? If if an audience is coming to this show to listen to you and I, then they're actually missing that if we have a guest. So it's it's it's around expectations, but it's also around, you know, a more complex topic, than just preparation and having all these things that we've talked
about kind of all buttoned up. Because I do know shows that are very popular on YouTube, likely very popular on podcasts that don't have a lot of heavy production, don't have a lot of heavy things, that are behind their shows that are very popular as well because it it really, at the end of the day, it's about personality. It's about information. It's
about value. Right? And that that perspective of content quality, which I've done episodes on here recently is, is a little bit of a misnomer is like, well, one person's quality is another person's trash. So how do you, how do you gauge what is quality content, right, when it comes to making a podcast? And I don't know, Todd, if you thought
about this issue before. I know that the podcast that you do, your Geek News Central podcast, you've been doing the same way for many years and you've obtained an audience and you've grown that show. But but it isn't a show that's got lots of glitz and glamour and and lots of splashy guests and and a lot of promotion behind it, but you've been able to maintain a loyal audience because of you. Yeah. That's correct. So in this leads into a comment that's made by Beautybubble on YouTube. I mean, on
yeah. The YouTube comment. She says, an I an an an idea on the truth of why people become successful on social platforms In the case of podcasting, this in this case of podcasting, PewDiePie said, of course, PewDiePie is a famous YouTuber, people have to love you enough to deeply care about you and all that you do, all the rest is voodoo. So I I agree. Mhmm. This is you know, until you have a moment and my moment came early in podcasting, you know, from a tragedy.
Yeah. That that moment I came home having missed my 200th episode because of my father's death and coming home and not having been on email and opening up my inbox to 5,000 emails of condolences from my audience is when I had this had this moment Uh-huh moment. Right. Yeah. Where I said, the these aren't just fans of the show. They're they're they're family. They're Ohana. They are they care. They really care.
And until you have that moment, you you just and I, you know, I don't wish that scenario on anyone. But at some point, someone's gonna have a moment. You're gonna be somewhere. Someone's gonna walk up to you, grab you, say thank you. Thank you for doing your show, and and that's worth a 1000000 emails. Thank you. You helped
me. You got me through something. You know, the 27 episodes my mom and dad my mom and I did after my dad died, when we talked, basically, it was therapy for us, all we all our goal was was to help just one. One one person that had lost a spouse. And over the years, that that people have come to us now and again. I think we're probably up to 20, 20, 25 people that have emailed and said, hey. You really helped me get through a bad spot.
But that was the goal of that show was just to help 1, and it was therapy for us to do the podcast just as a a method to overcome grief and, you know, talk about the craziness and, you know, her crying when she couldn't find the lawnmower key and my buddy had to go over and find the lawnmower key and, you know, stuff like this, you know. And it it it again, you visualize that the audience is what it is from a size standpoint, and you prepare to talk to that audience as it is.
And you give your heart to them in whatever content you're and make a personal connection, everything that Beautybubble just said in the what PewDiePie said is is spot on. People have to love you enough to deeply care about about you and all that you do. And I Rob, I don't think we have people that love us. You know, they probably I don't know that anybody I mean, realistically, does anybody expect that we we would care if we had that
happen? But, I mean, I think it would be it's an interesting psychological question. Yeah. Do we really care if some if this community loves us? Or Some people some people hate me. Just tune in. Right? Right. You know? Us boxing with each other. Or is it I mean, lots of people lots of audiences have different motivations. Yeah. It's true. With people. Right? And it's not always a positive one. Right. A negative one too. Right?
You know, and some and, you know, and some people, you know, some people, you know, I don't always agree with you. And I love that when people come up and say, I don't always agree with you. That's to me means I've won, you know. And and often today people are afraid to say I don't agree with you. So as soon as someone comes up says I don't agree with you, I'm like, yes, we we we we we found that spot. Right? Well, that really cuts cuts to the chase of the issue in our world today. Right?
Right. Right. People having thin skin and and the threat of free speech, that really cuts to the chase here. But, Rob, you can't say free speech because everyone then thinks you're, as I was told recently, as soon as you start quoting, free speech and people think you're right wing wacko. So, Yeah. I think it yeah. I think it says it in the US constitution, So it should be a bipartisan issue. You
would think it would be. But as soon as and I've been told as soon as you say the word free speech, you're automatically, you know, put in a different category. But, I suppose. Right? So but, again, we empower people. We maybe we should maybe we should say it is podcasting empowers people to have a voice. Okay. Yeah. Alright. I mister politically correct. No. Everyone that knows me knows I'm a big free speech advocate. It doesn't mean that's my political leaning.
You know, if the if the I mean, in the bigger picture of things, I think the the earlier days of podcasting, I think all of us would expound that as a virtue of this medium. Right? Yeah. And and was proud of it, but all of a sudden, you know, now it's something you have to cower in the corner about. I'm not sure that that makes a lot of sense. Truth be told, if someone sit down with me and had a truly deep political conversation with Nate Biden, I'm pretty moderate.
You know? So, you know, whatever you believe, you know, but We haven't changed. The world has changed. Yeah. That's true. That's the real truth. But I also had I also had 25 years, 35 years, actually, of traveling around the world and meeting people from just all like walks of life. Yeah. When that that hasn't that has to shape you and, you know, some positive, some negative. Yeah. And, so, you know, I guess it is. But I guess that's all I wanted to say on
that. And and I do have some thoughts, as well. I'm feeling how do I say this gently? We need to stop the animosity in podcasting. Yes. Mhmm. Yeah. So what do I mean by animosity? I I really didn't fully realize what maybe was happening until a few days ago. Mhmm. And I won't go into the specifics, but both Apple and Spotify are doing what they have to do. And they have given us both of those platforms whether you like their policies on how they do things.
One way or the other, they have given abilities for podcasts to be on their platforms. I'm personally biased a little bit that I know that we would not be here. This medium would not be here in the form it is today, had not Apple done what they did in 2005 and made podcasting available on iTunes, which then led to a podcast, which then led from an iPhone to a podcast app on Apple Podcast.
Spotify has come into the scene, but there seems to be a growing number of people that want to give the bird one way or the other. I'm not, and I'm pretty much on the record. I understand what Spotify is doing. I understand what people give up or what they don't achieve by being over there all by themselves, but people that are on Spotify should not exclude themselves from being on Apple and maybe vice versa. Now I there's just a little bit of what have you done for me
conversation going on right now. Mhmm. And when you really boil it down to brass tacks, has Spotify really done anything for the average podcaster besides making their shows available on their platforms for those that have an audience over there? If you're dealing with a a perception issue Yeah. Versus a reality issue. I think You know, not everyone uses Spotify for podcasts. Spotify market share and podcast is growing, but it's not anywhere near still today what Apple
is. Everyone talks about poo poo, abahu, you know, the Apple dropped a percent. Well, that's a good thing because they mean there's more options for listening to content. Spotify still a a music first platform. We can't forget about that. They are in a logarithmic gatekeeper. It's a closed ecosystem. We have to fully understand that, and we know that Spotify's promotional log is biased towards big names on Spotify.
That's just it. They are gonna those big shows' names, people have contracts and partners with Spotify will be raised to the top. And you're having ads placed without control. These are all the the negatives, obviously. A lot of the stuff I'm saying here. There's not a lot of transparency, and definitely is definitely a walled garden. That's for sure. And what they're doing with your listener data,
a lot of people don't care. I had a great conversation with someone recently about some of this attribution stuff and some stuff that's in works. I won't go into detail, but there may be a way ahead without selling out audiences. I'll just leave it at that. Mhmm. Wide distribution, including Apple Podcasts, Podcast Index, Podcasting 2.0, is really about one thing. It's about reduced dependence on one platform. Just like my saying is you can't build your castle
on on rented land. What had happened to me? I had a rented office, and I got kicked to the curb. Upended my entire life. It's still affecting me. Mhmm. You definitely have more avenues for discovery. Bonus, that's a plus by being everywhere. You got more control over revenue streams, and even Spotify realized this and have made Joe Rogan and other stuff available on multiple platforms. Why did they do that? More avenues for revenue. Right.
You get more data, more insights, a lot more control for your audience, giving them the place to go that they want to go. Discover diversified discovery? You can be found on YouTube. You can be found on Spotify. You can be found on Google. You can be found on podcasting apps. You there's this diversified discovery. Yeah. There's more organic channel growth for sure.
But the most important thing is you and, again, until as long as you are living a 100% within the Spotify atmosphere and, again, this sounds negative. Right? Sorry. I'm spinning it this way. But until you move, not necessarily from their hosting, but until you move to have your own place to call home, you can't retain control of your brand. And you have to the key in podcasting here is we don't want an over association
with one platform. So if you're telling your audience today, find my find my podcast on Spotify, You're cutting your own throat. Or if you're just saying, find my podcast only in Apple Podcasts. It's the same thing. You you can't have an over association with one platform. This podcasting is because it's open. You have the ability to say the famous words, find my podcast wherever podcasts are are available. Yeah. And there's folks out there that are that are against saying that nowadays.
So this animosity that I'm hearing, the animosity I hear that's come through on calls I'm on is, what has so and so done for me today? They don't owe you nothing. Right. Spotify owes you 0. Apple owes you 0. No one owes you anything, and you have to have your own destiny in your own hands. It's your choice where you wanna be distributed. I chose for my personal show. Didn't have it not a it wasn't mean
listen to you on anyway. I chose for my personal tech show to be removed off Spotify, but that's my choice. Am I gonna tell my my podcast hosting customers move off Spotify? Never. That would be suicide. Right. So It's a complicated topic, Todd. It's It is. But why the animosity? It's a it's a generational thing. I think I I think people are Is it is it Apple versus, Mac versus Windows again? I would say probably probably to some degree because it's it's a
it's a demographic difference too. It's it's but it's also people that are focused on Spotify are are thinking more internationally. Typically, they're typically younger, which means that they don't have really a long route in understanding the history of this medium and nor do they care. Yeah. Or where the majority of the audience is actually still coming from. Yeah.
A lot of content creators and I would say a lot of consumers, that use Spotify don't realize that the per capita consumption of podcasts on Spotify is dramatically less than the per user consumption of podcasts on Apple. So it's you know, you're dealing with but yet Spotify has greater international distribution in a broad sense. So they've been able to scoop up more users, but those users are spread, like you said earlier, between music
and podcast. Now granted, that is something that exists even in Apple's platform, but to a lesser degree. Yeah. And it's really because Apple invested in their own, standalone app inside of the Apple ecosystem where Spotify has chosen to continue to blend podcasting in with music. I And and that's kinda split their user base and their consumption patterns, which is exactly what Spotify wants. I I will just give a shout out again to to Apple, to Ted.
Yeah. You need tell you need maybe it's time to remind podcasters in one of your mailings how they can apply to be featured. That is I mean, people used to have you when's the last time, Rob, you've had a podcaster ask you, how do I get featured on Apple Podcasts? Alright. That or or the whole thing around, new and noteworthy. It's been probably Right. No kidding. Probably 2 years since I've had a no. I take that back. I had a guy ask me I don't really hear anybody asking about Several
months ago. Any of the platform They said they several months maybe less than a month ago, I had one person ask, how do I get featured on Apple Podcasts? I said, well, there's a whole section on it in on the website, and I didn't have a link. I said, just just do a Google. But It's a form that you fill out to submit your opportunity to them, and their editors will review it. And they'll pick you or not. I think it's pretty low likelihood that they'll pick any one podcast. Well,
okay. Just like me, years ago, I don't do it anymore. You know, the BBC said would you personal submission. The BBC said, would you like to come on air and and talk about specific topics from time to time? And I was like, sure. Not with BBC Asia. So I'd get woke up at 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning. Yeah. And they'd be like, Todd, can you come on the air in 15 minutes and talk about subject x? I may not have known anything about subject x, but guess what I always said? Yes. And guess what I did?
Between brushing my teeth and getting a glass of water and slapping on my face to get woke up, I googled the topic, and I become a 3 minute warrior. In 10 minutes, I could talk for 3 minutes on any topic because that's all they wasn't like I was going down there to talk for an hour. They just wanted someone to come in and be a a spokes person. On that topic, that that particular news headline That headline for
3 minutes. I got Todd Cochran from Geekna Central out of Honolulu, Hawaii on the line, and that was my prop. So I what did I get? I got a a little bump on the show every time I was on the BBC. So, James, I know you got to speak be on BBC's here, but I I've never been on BBC proper, but I've been was on BBC Asia numerous times. On the not on television on their On the radio. Radio. Yeah. So Yeah. So there was opportunities like that or, like, asking tell them the newspaper. Hey. I'm
celebrating 500 episodes. The newspaper came and did a this spot on me. I it you have to ask to be said told no. Right. Though those opportunities don't come around as much as they used to, because podcasting is not a not a new media anymore. It's you you have to you it's just like going back to how, you know, the the the ugly, baby conversation. How do you get those opportunities? You have to ask. They're not gonna seek you out. You have to build a relationship with a producer.
You know, I had every I had every television station in Honolulu. I had the like, the 10 emails that I had collected at at wherever I could get them that I would send stuff. And maybe, like, you know, I and, again, it was like for, like, NPR in Hawaii. I would send stuff to NPR. Hey, Todd, can you come in the studio and speak for 15 minutes on this topic? Yes. I didn't even listen to NPR, but I got invited to come on NPR.
Yeah. You know, I'm not gonna turn down an opportunity to get 15 minutes and push my brand. So, again, these opportunities are available. And going back to animosity thing, none of these platforms owe anybody anything. And are are they really helping you? And if you're stuck on, I love Spotify. Well, I'll tell you a little story about me not wanting to use a Mac. I had a buddy. Oh, Todd. I've never wanted to use a Mac. So that's Okay. I had a buddy. His name was James
Reeves. Him and I flew together and he was a hardcore Mac guy. I was a hardcore Windows guy. And man, he tried to convert me for years and we used to fly with a guy that took every amount of money that he had left over from his paycheck, and he would buy Apple stock when it was, like, Steve Jobs broke, like, $3.4 or whatever it was. And I used to bust that guy's guts. I'll say that I'll say that politely. Told him how a fool he was for buying that worthless Apple stock. This went on for months.
I mean, probably more than 2 years. I was always teasing this guy in the airplane, and we're having this thing with this other guy he knew as a Windows guy. Who got the last laugh? Right. Right. Who got the last laugh? Yeah. You couldn't have gone wrong, more wrong. Either either way though, Todd. Well, you know, if if I had just Yeah. Not been so hard headed. Yeah. I'm a Windows guy. Had not had been so hard headed.
Rob, we wouldn't have this conversation. I'd be retired like that guy is that I know, and he sends me a little a little Facebook punch in the face about every 6 months because he remembers how I teased him about his Apple stock that he bought. Right. Right? Dummy. So, you know, so when I've got to the point in my life where I'm like, I can't you know, so maybe I'm wrong in pulling myself from Spotify. Maybe I'm the dumb one already. I don't think so. But I'll pay the price if I do.
I think you have to look at these things to some degree about, you know, what the future looks like. Not so much what the past has been or what it is currently. And what are the big trends that are that are moving things in a certain direction? I mean, I think as you look at Spotify, they are trending to be growing. They're picking up what is perceived to be market share from Apple, which gives you this impression that they're they're growing. They're expanding.
But the problem is it comes with risk. Of course. How how many emails did I get today of the platformed episodes? 2. I got 2 today. Mhmm. And we looked at the show's political content pulled from the platform. So Yeah. Okay. So if you say the wrong thing this goes back to the heart of podcasting. We're the only platform on this Earth, in the known universe, the known universe, where you cannot be deplatformed. You can still be sued. You can still be called a kook.
You can still, you know, lose your job, but you can say whatever you want to say. Yeah. You can, but you can't can't be, kind of protected from the consequences. But at the same time, if you have a political opinion in a very politically charged environment right now and some and you have episodes being removed. Well and they're not being removed from other platforms? I guess this is my favorite thing. And I was and I'd be on the airplane in the Navy and someone would do something.
1 of my trainees that I was training would do something. I'd go, really? Oh, Alex Jones is a perfect example of this. Well, you know, and a lot of people don't like Alex Jones. So but, again That's that's Regardless as far as I'm concerned, that's perfectly okay. It's just, you know, he's an example of what happens. And he got and he got sued for stuff he said, and he'll Right. So he's not immune from the consequences. Right.
But he certainly and he he got taken down by many, podcasts distribution platforms for, you know, some hate speech that he had on his program. Again, alleged hate speech. So again, Well, it's always a ace. Back then when that happened, most of the terms of service were pretty pretty kind of vague on this topic, you know, and they still are today around hate speech. Right? What's the what's the definition of what Well, the the the the Supreme Court has weighed in on that.
Right. And now it's well, I mean, it's it's historically been linked up to some sort of a threat or a sort of Yeah. I'm going to do this to you x y z. That's right. And that's that's been where that line has typically been drawn. Right. But I do think that we've expanded that line quite a bit over the last few years. Well, others have tried to tie tried because they don't like speech. Right. And and again, I we don't need to go over that.
But at the same point that they're I think all of us are clearly aware of what we're talking about here. So but here's here in lies the the catch. Right. If you control your feed and you are on open podcasting, you can say whatever you want. It's on you. Well, and like Alex, he was able to maintain his RSS feed. He's still online. Yep. He's still distributing a show. He's still distributing off of his own website. I think 90 99.9% of podcasters will probably never be sued.
Although there has been a number of these cases where people are sued for different reasons using music and every different types of things. But Music and some level of defamation Right. Lawsuits. Yeah. I think copyright is the is the more typical scenario. But, again, we go back to the essence of podcasting. Mhmm. The essence is and then we and I and I you know, and this is where I'd hold the line is and this is gonna be a new fake term for me and we'll be using it
a lot. Hold the line means we have to understand the value of open and what it has provided us and allowed us to grow to the medium that we are today. And when the walls crumble down and the money runs out and advertisers well, let's look at a layoff that just happened. Another big layoff. Who is this? It let me see here. I'll pull it up. In the podcasting stage? Or Well, it's just overall. Let me find it. It was who was it? N p where is it? So 8% of they're going to host Red only. Who was that?
Crap. Hang on. I'll find it here. Oh, man. I thought it was in this content stream right here. I didn't oh, here we go. That was on the media. WNYC laying off another 8% of its workforce and will now start doing host red ads. Oh, so now they're gonna be forced to do host red ads. W y WNYC. Interesting. Okay. They're forced to do host red ads. Forced to do host red. Wow. That's something unique, Todd. I have to say that's Forced. That's a Yeah. That's an interesting
development, isn't it? Yes, it is. Yes. It's like, we're going back to where we used to be and somehow that's innovative now. Yeah. You know, and here you're gonna have hosts now that are basically gonna say, hey. Read this read for such and such product and use this promo code. And, yet yet, WNYC is the biggest income supporter supposedly of WNYC, listener support. Yet, they've laid off 8%, and they're starting having forced to do host read ads.
And even well, with the Libsyn CPM numbers were pushed out this week too. Reached to the bottom. They they were they dropped 3 was it 3% down to Like $21. Yeah. It was always hovered at 20 No matter that we can spend 20 to 24 We can we can spend 10 hours on that topic alone. But so again, for you independent content creators, your indies, never to fear. You're not beholden to your advertiser because you don't get them.
Mostly, 95% of you are not getting an advertiser because they've ignored you, so you have nothing to lose. Right. Nothing. Because don't worry. You're good. All listener support. Value for value. Right. Learn it. Live it. Breathe it. And by the way, we are lit and live right now. So, I do wanna thank those of you that are streaming the show, live on on your favorite modern podcast app at podcastapps.com.
So, you know, Rob, I think, you know, we've come full circle here, but, again, kill the animosity. Let's let's, embrace what we have built here over the last 19 years and understand the value of what we have put our blood, tears, and sweat in. I've lived this 247 since October 9, 2004, Rob. How long and you've been doing this for a month month longer than me. Yeah. I'm I'm coming up on 20 years and, what, 11 days. So So Yeah.
We we didn't build this medium for it to be controlled by some entity that wants to put their finger on you. Mhmm. And again, it's it it goes back to, oh, ain't gonna happen to me. I don't talk about anything until it is. Yeah. I mean, I do wonder, Todd, if that's really ever gonna happen in this medium. I mean, as long as we have RSS, it's gonna be difficult for a b company.
No. It's true. Do that. Right? But but if we have this mindset of people that says, I don't beeping need beeping so and so company. Right. What have they done for me? Right. What they have done is they have made this medium possible. Well well, Todd, I think we're coming into an era where people want want to get special treatment, handouts, get a boost. I don't know what what the right word to describe it is, but I think that there is is
and it's a generational thing. I I think that there is a desire to get support from these platforms somehow to help people that are struggling to be successful. And that's where this is coming from. I think there's an expectation that, well, this is a big company. They should be able to help me be successful. So what makes I thought don't go go ahead. I don't wanna even go there. We're we're not
I don't No. I know you don't. But I but I think it is a psychology that that's that's motivating this that that it's almost like an entitlement. Right? That that people want feel like that there's a responsibility there. If you have built a successful massive audience, you will have to ask. They will come to you. Right. It's true. But you you typically have to do that first. Does YouTube for that. Right. Does YouTube reach out and help creators that are having a 1000 views on their pod on their
YouTube listens? No. What does YouTube do? Until you get the prerequisite number of listener hours and you get to a prerequisite set of number of listeners, which is usually in the millions, then you get invited to YouTube special events. You just don't get invited to any special creator event by having an idea.
Now They've they've recently announced that they're and this is this is a buzz in the YouTube YouTube creator community right now is that, YouTube's algorithm has been adjusted to, prioritize new channels and new creators on the platform. This things get a little dull. Well, I just I think it gets back to what you were just saying, Todd. I think that the as the big get bigger and the big get more successful, there's this perception that the little guy is getting left out. We'll see.
Right. But again, they're they're going to they're gonna be very selective in making sure there is a threshold of success you already have. You're not you're not gonna be Todd and getting surfaced by YouTube, and it never gonna happen. Okay. I think you're maybe missing their bigger point, and that that's that they're trying to incentivize smaller creators or people that are willing to create new
channels. Right? So bringing new blood, yep, maybe younger creators into the medium and then having those those creators be kind of like maybe favored for some period of time to determine if they have traction. Right? And then if they have traction, then they
will encourage it. Because I did notice a change in the algorithm even with my own channel, probably a month and a half ago, 2 months ago, where where it seemed like they had they had made a big change and they were evaluating content creators on their platform differently. And so I think if you're a long time creator on their platform, you're probably your threshold of success kinda
that's required kinda went up. And maybe they're they're taking that as a kind of like an adjustment for making room for new creators to come in and create content on the platform. And then but I'm sure they'll still evaluate it under the same kind of algorithmic model of of trying to evaluate those creators based on engagement. But but, again, there's gonna be length of consumption and things
like that. There's gonna be some prerequisite. You're going to have to build a channel to a certain size before that it's gonna kick in. They're not just gonna give any any Dick, Tom, or Harry the the But Todd the bump. Think about it from the perspective is that all these platforms are heading towards algorithmic evaluation and judgment. Right? So it isn't a personal thing. It's not It's a computer. Right. So they're going to go in and test.
This is really kind of the mentality I've seen start to enter the YouTube platform is where you can test different things. Right? So I think on the back end, what what they're gonna do is they're gonna test these new channels to see which one they see kind of like bumps in engagement, bumps in listening time. And if they see a pattern of, you know, a glimpse of hope, then maybe they'll they'll fit them into the algorithm and help
drive those new content creators. Meanwhile, millions of shows will get driven to the bottom. I'm I'm so thankful that I'm in podcasting and I don't have to chase the YouTube The YouTube But, Todd, these concepts that I'm talking about here are likely going to be coming to podcast consumption platforms. Well, if it helps raise in these, it's a much better chance of being discovered considering there's only a 350,000
active podcast right now. So much much smaller pool to bring the cream to the top. Yeah. But that's kind of where this is all going. It's going towards an algorithmic discovery process. And and I think that's Spotify, I'm sure is increasingly engaging in this.
And I think it, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Apple do it as well, where this is kind of they're doing a deeper analysis on engagement, listening time, all those kind of things, and then driving audience to those shows that people listen to the end or they listen to 75% of it or they watch longer time frames. Because that's the kind of data that we're we're able to see in the YouTube platform.
And I do think that there's a lot of jealousy right now between the the level of metrics in YouTube and the level of metrics that's available to podcasters. And I, yeah, I did wanna mention too that I saw that that Spreaker made an announcement, speaking of a a full circle for or Spreaker, but they did make an announcement. I can share the screen with you, but they announced a a new kind of like a recording tool inside of their app. It's it's interesting. It's what's old is new again.
Yeah. Because when Spreaker started many years ago, back in 2010, that was the model that they had for Spreaker is that they had an app that was for listening and creating. And what's also interesting about this new kind of recording tool that they have is that it's, it it basically has a production process that's, that has, like, sections of content, like a like a section that you can record that's an intro and then a section of the show that's called the kickoff and then a title music section.
Did they buy Anchors Tech? I I don't think so. It sounds pretty please. Sounds pretty similar. This this sounds very similar to what, Lipson had with their Lipson studio, where you had different segmented recordings, and you could create a script for each segment of it. And this is kinda what this is is doing. But Spreaker has always had a recording tool. It's the it's the Spreaker app, and I used to live stream through it back when I was
working for Spreaker. And it's just an interesting how, Spotify removed this capability from their their apps. And then Lipson removed it, but then Spreaker added this this tool to their platform. It's an interesting kind of, like, juxtaposition of sorts. When stuff gets removed, it means one thing. Budget. No. Usage. Well yeah. Yeah. Usage usage was crap. They said, oh, man. We threw that we threw that stick of gum up on the wall,
and usage was so bad. It's not worth continuing the the supporting code development, and everything goes along with it. And let's go ahead and and pull the plug on that. Yeah. Because what's also interesting about this kind of production workflow is that it's it's somewhat taking advantage of dynamic ad insertion of sorts because you're dynamically assembling all these segments of content into one show. Right? So Live Podcast Media says agree with Rob.
Now big companies help local people, not YouTube helps to get followers, but they work with local creators. Apple will also make Apple class here. Well, here's the thing is, there most podcasting is not local. So what does that even mean? If you're YouTube, you might be creating local content, but podcasts are pretty much global. Some people have local shows, and I know there's some initiative out there to push that.
But if the Yeah. I think there's more local probably in the paradigm of YouTube than than you might think, Todd. I think that there's there's content that's produced for local communities. Well, in in I'm sure there's YouTube reps and those and they may not be YouTube employees. They might be ambassadors or something. So Yeah. But again, I think, you know, I'm kinda I guess, just call me a little curmudgeon. I'm old school. Sustained superior content wins the day, and the keyword is sustained.
Right. So how do we help content creators with the sustained part? Without telling them to go boohoo and cry to themselves? Well or, you know, is it I mean, is that where we're gonna see AI come in and rescue the day before all of us? Again, I go back to the people that are creating and the ones I'm having conversations with, you know, perspective is needed when you look at your stats and, again, visualizing how many people are actually reaching.
You know, I I think about my own personal company. Who do I get to talk to on a daily basis? About 20 people. That's who I have influence over. And yet, not really that many. I have, you know, a handful that I have direct influence over. Then I have my CTO. She has influence and then we coordinate. So we're a small business. So I don't have influence over 100 and thousands of people,
But my show does. The people I reach in my show I have in not necessarily influence, but I'm in their ear in this show and to and my other, you know, 3 to 4 times a week, I'm in people's ears. So as long as you're respecting who you're reaching, again, what is the goal? Is the goal to be a superstar and have a 100, 200, 300,000, a 1000000 listeners and be able to monetize and make money? Very, very, very hard and very, very few
people will achieve that. So, again, what is the goal that you're doing for your content? And I would fair say that more than 90% that the the goal is not maybe 80%. The goal is not advertising. There's other means. Yeah. And I hear it when people say, why was I I wanna build a lead gen, or I wanna be I wanna learn enough to become the subject matter expert in this topic, or I'm doing this because I love it. It's and I don't worry about money. I think that's 50% of the folks alone.
At least 50 to 60% don't give a care. They just do it because they love creating content and love to talk like I do, and you do. Right. Right. Yeah. It's true. Yeah. It's interesting. I noticed that there's there's a a conversation that's brewing out there. I heard, Daniel J. Lewis and Dave Jackson talk about, podcast conferences on their podcast, the future of podcasting,
podcasts that they do. And they were talking a lot about, kind of what we might see with podcasting conferences as we saw this kind of throwback that we just heard around the the big comeback of, of host reads is is it are we potentially seeing a comeback in the need or the desire or the willingness for people to start putting on pod camps again? These concepts of a smaller one day events.
And I think we're seeing the, podcast is is heavily involved in trying to do this around the country as well. Are we gonna see kind of like pod camp start popping up again where people in local communities can get together and talk about? I hope so. Yeah. I did see that there's a podindy.com in in it looks like the Indianapolis, market in on November 9th that's coming up.
So Yeah. It's interesting because we've been in heavy con conversation ever since the end of podcast movement about Matter of fact, we got talked about Rob on the Podcast Movement. In the Podcast Movement group, the show got talked about and what we talked about from the last show. And Oh, okay. And in in essence of, you know, everyone has a different objective when they go to a show. Some people go to attend and learn. So I'm sure for the attendees, it was probably a fantastic event.
Right, to go and learn and and to network. Different vendors have different goals. And if you were a certain type of vendor, you probably were thrilled with the with the type of content creator that was there because you were that that was your business. That was your customer. You know, that was the person that would be a potential customer for you from a commercial standpoint.
Yeah. But definitely my segment of business, besides waving a flag, you know, I think that we you know, we've already talked back to death, but we were talked about quite a bit. And I I think too is you you probably got out of the show It's most people probably got a lot out of the show because that was their objective was to go and learn, which is which is great. Mhmm. You know, and advances podcasting, and you got to hear lots of great speakers. And so I'm sure from that regard, it it
it was it was good. So our perspective my perspective is different because I go there with a different goal. Right. And, so, again, not pooh pooh ing. You know, there's a lot of people there that probably had a great time and and, but at the same point, couple of people in that comment thread, I don't don't go for the same exact reason we talked about in the show being at a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday event. And, anyway but go back to what you were
saying. I you know, I've been talking with my team. We had I don't think this is private at all. I think we've talked about it on the show. We had originally, before COVID, had plans to put together what we call Blueberry University. Mhmm. And actually had a 2 day event planned with all the topics that we're gonna cover. And we're gonna we're gonna start in Detroit and see how how effective it was. So I think that, this potentially could be the way ahead.
Not necessarily Blueberry University, but local events. You also heard that the the former event, the pod summit event up in Calgary is coming back here this month. I was surprised to see that. Yeah. I heard that too. So That's on September 20th to 21st. Pod Pod Summit y y c 2024 in Calgary. You know, and and the challenge though is and what we found with the local events was unless you're local local for let's say the event is in Atlanta.
Alright. So for I'd have to fly somebody down, pay for travel, pay for hotel, maybe have a table there. You know, the challenge we had with local events was you never know if there was gonna be 300 people there or 10. Right. Yeah. You know, and if you if you travel in and there's only 10, you go back home and report that, then
that that's a challenge. So if someone's thinking about doing local events, let's let's maybe have some regional, you know, try to have something in some places, areas where you can draw enough people. Indianapolis should be able to draw a decent crowd, I would think. Mhmm. Yeah. Kinda like a a hybrid between, like, a, like, a meetup event Yeah. And an actual kind of one day, one track conference, which is which
is kind of a different. A one day one track is easy because you can have that in a hotel. Right. Some you know, you don't have to go to expensive hotel. No one has to overnight. You just rent the room for the day. You know, probably a couple $1,000, you can you can have an event like that, probably with pretty good success. But, again, it depends on takes local people
to draw people in. So running a local event, those that have had pod camps know they're almost as much work as a a regular conference. Mhmm. Because most pod camps are 2 2 day events.
They did have a little different structure to them because I've I've done many pod camps over the years in the early days of this medium where all the attendees go and there's like a big master signup board that people that attend the conference actually will just write on a board, what their topic is, and they'll lead a Yeah. Lead a session, you know, 15 minutes later or something like that. That was like the brain the brain dates that, that they had it Same concept. Right. It's
the same concept. By the way, we got 500 sets 2 days ago from Chos 99, and I don't fully understand what he was trying to tell us. It's failing fast and early. Now this has something to do with the last show. Failing fast and early has been around since the advent of agile development since 1990 and embraced by all Silicon Valley companies for at least 20 years. A CEO co opting this as new thinking is beyond laughable. Agile. Where do we talk about agile development? I don't think we did.
Yeah. I mean, I think the topic of failing fast is, is certainly something, but maybe came up in the context of our discussion about the diary of a CEO that, that Steven Hartman conversation because, you know, he had hired a chief failure officer. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's probably what it is failing fast and early. Yeah. Yeah. And being able to identify those those failure or weak points in your in your production, in your distribution, in your monetization.
You know, we've done 2 or 3 things even in Blueberry that, you know, I said, should we take this off the shelf and revisit the code? Because, you know, 10 years, it was we are 10 years too early for for bringing stuff to market. And, you know, then you think about, well, no. Now there's, you know, 5 people in the space already. How are we gonna compete, with that? And what's, you know, what's our advantage?
But, you know, one thing, we're heavily invested, but this is one thing that I've just continued to notice here is that the majority high, high majority of podcasters don't even pay attention to any stuff we're talking about. They just do their show. You know, they log into the host if they have to. They do their podcast. They have fun doing it. They're not they're not following any of this stuff that's going on. They they they don't care. They're just they're just doing their show.
And, you know, that to me is, you know, a big, you know, the big thing of why podcasting is is we're not doom and gloom here. We're down, but we're we're nowhere are we in? Oh, my God. The sky is falling. And, you know, none of that is happening. I think people fear stagnate, you know, being stagnant, and not growing. Right? I think that there's always this expectation or desire to everything must continue to go up.
Well, you know, I I think, if you're stock driven and you you are beholden to your stockholders, what do companies do when that times are down? Well, we just saw it. The the, you know, WYNC cut 8% of staff. Yeah. So, you know, if you're not making it in the revenue standpoint and the black line gets above the red line or is that the right no. The red line gets above the black line. That's a non sustainable business model. Yeah. So what do you have to do? Where's the first place you can go to
to cut corners? You you cut staff. It's your probably your biggest line item. Oh, it all it always is. It's the biggest. You know? And for a small company like me, you know, losing 1 or 2 people would be a big deal. You know? Mhmm. We're we already run thin. So that's, you know, not only we're holding we're hold we're trying to hold the line to make sure that, as this, tough economic situation is in place that we continue to hold the line and everyone gets
gets a paycheck. And I again, I don't wanna we're not in any risk, but it's something that I watch month to month to see where we're at, how we're doing, what the bank account balance looks like, the whole 9 yards. You have to. Or the next thing you know, you're you're given, 3 days notice that you're pulling the plug. That's what a lot of companies do. They they don't adjust soon enough, and they run themselves into the dirt.
And it's a it's a extinction event because they were unwilling to make hard decisions. Yeah. And that's what WOINC had to do. They had to make a hard decision. Yeah. Losing money. You can't lose money for too long when you it cut I don't know how big their staff is, but that had to be I'm sure it's pretty big. Yeah. What what is the size of w ins let me see here. What is the size of w n c staff? Did I type it right? W n y c. W y n c. Right? No. Oh, w n y c. There there we go. Duh. WNYC. A
340 full and part time employees. So 8% is 24, about 30 people lost their jobs. Yeah. And if you think about that, let's just do the the calculator on that. That's you know, if we if we think about and I'm not saying everyone is making a $100,000, but let's assume, that it was, you know, a $100,000 salary and which is and then a $150,000 worth of salary and benefits or maybe 1.75. So you probably had about a savings of that's a big one. $4,800,000.
So that's not a huge That's probably a difference between being able to meet your payroll or not. That's right. Maybe. And if you're if you're burning 4,800,000 losing and it probably it probably took a few more people based upon so if you're losing $4,500,000 a month. Right. You know, let's say you're losing 4,800,000. You multiply that out by 12. That's $57,000,000 in a year. No. No. No. It would have been 4,800,000 for the year because I I figured the
salary for a year. So, yeah, 4,800,000 for the year. So, you know, that's how many companies can survive $5,000,000 of in the in the red ever for a whole year? I don't think there's too many companies that can can handle that. I don't think they run on margins that are that that close. Yeah. You can't. And it's also could be a a a forward looking thing too. They may be forecasting a reduction in revenue. Yeah. So they're just preparing for what may be coming here in
the fall. And I it's it's gonna be a it's gonna be an interesting fall. Well, I, you know, I keep I keep hearing from people that, you know, I I belong to the to the Moose and I go to the Legion. You know, for those of you who know what the Moose is, I have a Moose membership and really go for the cheap drinks is what it primarily is. But you hear these business people sitting around tables and, yeah, they're they're they're sobbing in their beer suds because it's not good.
Right. You know, come August, September, they're they're like no new business, no new customers, no new contracts. And people are tight. So, Todd, I'm I'm flying out, later in the later this week to go out to the Alliance's event this year. Gonna go? Last year. I they invited me, but I had to opt not to go. It just financially, there's not again, I have to look at things from a ROI standpoint. I can go hang out and have fun and, you know,
all good for you. I haven't gone in a couple years myself, so it was Yeah. Just a reason to go out and see my daughter and as well as Yeah. They invited me back. I just can't I can't Go to Seattle too. Right? Yeah. So October 11th, I am, going to Honolulu. Gonna go see my kids out there. And then, and then I go remote for a couple of months again. So back back to the Philippines on a on 15th or something like that. So Okay. Yeah. All the work I've done here in the studio
will go cold iron for a while. But I am I am taking, I'm gonna have a good camera, and, I'm set up so that we'll be able to do good quality video while I'm in the secondary location. That sounds good. Yeah. So we have made it to the end, Rob, not surprisingly. Yeah. And doesn't look like I'm gonna be available to do a show on 11th. So Oh, that works because I'm gonna be in the air headed towards Honolulu NEI. Oh, okay. Yeah. So well, October 11th is a Friday. So
will you No. No. I'm talking about September. Oh, okay. I will not be available October 11th, but that doesn't matter. It's not a show day. I will be available on October 9th. Okay. What's your availability in September? September, I am next week, I'm not available because I'm gonna be at the Mecon event. I'm gonna be at the AI conference, but I'm available the rest of the month, 18th, 25th. I'll be available. I will not be available on October 2nd. We're having a company retreat,
down in Florida. We're bringing a team down to, to an event. Yeah. So 18, 25, 9, and then after 9th, we'll switch to night shows again. Yeah. I can I can do the 18th and 25th Okay? Of September. Alright. So next week works out both. We're both not available on 11th. So Yeah. Alright. That work works out good. Okay. Alright. If you're not using the new Modern Podcast app, go to podcastapps.com. Time, talent, or treasure. Have we provided you any good value today?
If we have, we definitely appreciate any donations to the show. Rob and I split those donations directly. If you PayPal me, I send, like, half of that over to Rob. So, you can donate it on the show's web page at newmediashow.com. And Or Satoshis. That's the other one. Satoshis are fine. Yep. That's that's good as well. Rob's gets the split. But more importantly, we love we love we
love your dollars. So, if we provided any value and made you think today, TIME, talent, treasure, donate it back to the show. At TIME, talent is help us with the podcast. We're always we can always use assistance. Yeah. I'm [email protected]. On social, I'm at geek news on x. On Mastodon, I'm at geek news at geek news dot chat. Kind of a double whammy there. Rob? Yeah. I'm on all the social platforms, LinkedIn, x, Facebook, YouTube, all those, and I'm I'm typically found
off of my name, Rob Greenlee. So or you can send me an email, [email protected]. We'd love to hear from you. And if you have any feedback about the show or any kind of comments, I didn't wanna throw something out to you, Todd, as well as the audience of this is, do do you guys think that we need to update the the cover art for this show or do anything different with this show as we move into the future with this show? Is it time to drop the the new media name or anything,
groundbreaking like that? Is is podcasting not a new media anymore, or is it kind of like old media show? Is is that what we should call it now? Old curmudgeon show? The OG show or, you know, what ideas do you have about what should happen to this show and what what we should do differently to keep up with the trends, Todd? And if you have a idea for our album art, we're always Yeah. Take donations. That's part of that talent piece. Right. Because I have no talent. I use
AI for everything now for images. So Or some some sort of new intro music. Oh, that's right. Because, you know. Todd and Rob in the afternoon. We're gonna need one that says Todd and Rob in the evening. Right. And wherever you listen or watch Yeah. Your podcast from. That's right. Yeah. If you haven't already, go over to new media show.com. Please follow or subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting app. And, the show is still on Spotify. You're listening over there.
Please tell us who you're 1 or 2 people that are over there. But They're they're probably gonna drop us, Todd, before we drop off. Oh, maybe. Yeah, maybe. They don't care. They don't they don't pay attention to what's going on. They don't listen to any of this content. No. I'm sure. Yeah. They're they're they're they're the big kahunas right now. So Yep. Okay. Alright, everybody. Thanks for being here. We'll, we'll see everyone back here on the
18th. On 18th. Yeah. Back on 18th. Of of September at 3:3 PM EST noon Pacific. That's right. Alright, everybody. Take care. We'll see you next time. Bye bye. Okay. Bye.