Well, we're back with the new media show again, tonight. And I appreciate you joining us. Todd's with me joining me again. So Todd, How's it going? I'm alive alive and well, and it's been a very, very busy week for my team at at Blueberry. And so, you continue to roll out some new stuff we can talk about at some point here, but yeah. You know, another weekend podcasting other week of you know, people trying to change the world.
Yeah. Right. And also, a lot of things that come up in the podcasting kind of ecosystem and pod news and of other ones that are feel like they're kind of, like, happening over and over again for us. Talk because we've been around long enough to see these conversations happen. And and some sometimes it's interesting to go back and talk about the things that maybe we've talked about, like, 10 times over the last 14 years
to to revisit them again. And 1 of them is this conversation that's been happening in an article or 2 on, online about the the download, Right, with podcasting. Whether or not time has come somehow somewhere in one's perception that maybe time's up for for the download. Is it is it 2010, 11 12/14/1820 21
22. Yeah. Yeah. I think Yeah. 20 conversation has happened a lot, You know, I was thinking about this conversation back when podcasting started because a lot of the distribution of the radio show that I started back in in 19 99, was distributed by streaming. Right? So we've we've had this conversation around download versus streaming and who's gonna win and and what's what's gonna be the future, and and it's been an interesting pretty simple kind of perspective on it up to this
point. Right? The the download 1. Yes. It did. And you know you know, when these articles come up, this says, we need to retire the download. Well, for those that want to do that, go ahead and knock yourself out. There's nothing saying that you can't do that. There is there's some ramifications to it. So, you know, if this is gonna serve you and you're you're advertising over overlords better, then
then then do that. And it's kind of ironic because and I'll talk after we get talk about this, I'll talk about a conversation I had just today, well well, let... Yeah. Just today, yeah. Anyway, what there's... It's... There's a little irony here, but there's nothing happening a company from invoking streaming, and then, watching to see what the fallout is. They they forget there's people like me, and there's parts of the world that are still bandwidth
challenged. I, you know, I've been in a little bit bandwidth challenge from time to time right here in the location, then I'm at. I go out and guess what? No data. And I have to find a local. I have to go into a shop or or whatever it may be and they have Wifi and I connect to the white... Right here in a major metropolitan City, outside the United States.
So, you know, this this discussion, let's go streaming you know, they they travel a little bit, get outside the United States or go to rural America and see what you're experience is going to be like. Right? Yeah. It all works until it doesn't work. Yeah. It's it's a conversation that is kind of like a very loaded conversation from the standpoint of one's perspective on access, and also one's current perspective on the desire of the commercial side of podcasting to get deeper metrics.
Right? I I think the conversation has mainly been focused in this article, was a little bit focused on this as well is about the accuracy of the information that is obtained primarily for advertisers. Yeah. That utilizes streaming delivery. Right? They know when the stream starts. They know when the stream ends, and that's what the advertisers want. They they wanna know that their ad got hurt. Okay.
At the end of the day, that's what they all want, and they want it to have it be confirmed in a way that they're used to seeing it. Wish in 1 hand and doo doo in the other and, you know. He so how interject. I I was... I I don't think I can say who they are. But I'll just give you some street credits. I was introduced to someone by Tom Webster earlier this week.
I was demoed a system that is really a solution that I thought about more than more than 10 years ago as a possible way to monetize the 90 percent of podcast that are monetized today in a way that would be very, very viable. And the tech at the time wasn't there, and the company I talked to has spent the last 3 years building something that is wholly remarkable, wholly in line with everything that I've been talking about for many, many years,
They don't care about attribution. They don't care about the numbers. They don't... All they care about is ability gives someone an opportunity to earn a little money from the show if they so choose to in a way that allows them to being in more control than any system I've ever seen before no longer having the agencies drive the discussion. It's essentially a model where the podcast. Picks the advertiser.
Yeah. And there's still a little bit of approval process, but the advertiser still I mean, excuse me, the the advertiser says here's the deal. And and I no 1 go much more deeper into that. But I I will say that, you know, I think I found my brother from another mother in a meeting today. A 30 minute meaning turned into 90 minutes, and the company has something viable that I think will benefit. My podcast without the b that we all have to go through and kiss in the asses of these media agencies.
Excuse my French. I agree with, Todd. I mean, it's it's a lot of these discussions like we're seeing here, really fall out of a of a shift in priority. Right? The shift in priority is towards doing things that the advertisers want versus doing things that the audience wants. Hit in the end of the day that... That's what the conflict has always been focused on is who are we doing these shows for?
Are we doing these shows for listeners? Are we doing these shows forever And in here's Here's part of the here's part of the the the the bigger challenge, the amount of money Okay. So let's let's let's look at this from a layered standpoint. Mh. Company Abc b Ac company. You know, let's go back to Bugs bunny days. You know, the Abc b Ac company out there. Right? And they're they're selling a product. And they say, in in the early days, they came to Todd and said, hey, we wanna ever...
We want you to advertise the Abc ac company and I would degree or disagree, and we would make a deal, and I would get a superior advertising rate because I did a direct deal. Then, Abc Acne company, after they tried to manage 4 or 5 podcast like me said, oh, can't do this by myself anymore I need an agency. So then the agency took their 15 percent.
And then the agency says, well, we don't know about this for performance even though Abc Ac company is backing this data out into a a Cpa and how much they're earning from what they're spending with these advertisers, And they say, oh, we need attribution. We need all these things. And you're gonna pay for that mister podcast. You're you're you're gonna you're gonna take that audi out of your hide. And to be on our system, you're gonna pay us to run this ad tech
for you. And then in the end, after everyone's done, dip in their their clause into the revenue, the average... The podcast ends up with repentance of what he should have run into. Right. And then you get people saying we need to get rid of the download because we need more download. We need more data. Please put take control. We need to take control and It's all bullshit, All this data that they're collecting. It's all bs. It's it's it's all bs. Here's the reason why it's all bs.
They're gonna know if they've... If their campaigns on performance. If it performed, it performed if it didn't, it didn't. If you performed, you get renewed. So I have a sense here, Todd, and I'm not... I'm just guessing off top because I don't know any better here, but I would think that maybe this new idea might be making it easier for people to do or podcast to do direct deals versus trying to go through a third party to do a deal. Right?
Like podcast... The podcast is 100 percent control of the advertising deals that he or she takes and the the... Back to that are early days of this medium and why this medium exists the way it does today. I think a lot of people have I've forgotten that. So I can't go into much more than this without really kind of unveiling the cookie. But, I'd be honest with you. I was... When
I first started this conversation. I said, you know, man, I said, the reason we didn't do this to, you know, 10 to 12... Whatever the years ago And matter of fact, we we were brought this idea by someone that, you know, basically tried to become part of the company. And and I said it was just too hard to connect the dots. Well, these folks have spent 3 years building a system that connects the dots and built a platform that I see why I took 3 years to build us. I I've stunned.
Simple in execution, hard to implement hard to replicate. So, you know, Is it... It's like a great business model here? No. Great business model for for that team. And and when Tom sends me an email and says Todd, do you need to talk to this guy. You you know, you're you're gonna love this. Well, Tom, if you're listing, a home run my friend. Home effing run. So, yeah. And in the end, for me as a host. I I have a... The show as shows get bigger. It's this internal problem for years and years
and years. I start... Let's say I help this show get advertisers when they're at the 5000 downloads per episode Mark. That works out really, really wow 05/10/1525 30 40, but gets about 50000 downloads for episode. All of a sudden, that company or that podcast doesn't wanna give Todd 30 percent anymore. Mh. And they wanna do their own ad deals because you're making enough money.
So oftentimes, I'll start losing shows because they go their own route, some don't, some go to a big agency or go to a big, you know, to an aca cast or someone like that. But what do I still do for the 90... Actually and it's not really 90 percent. It's 40 percent of the remaining 90 percent that want an ad deal. Because again, only about 40 percent of shows that aren't monetized, would like to earn some money.
And in the end, that show it's got a thousand 3000 Downloads per episode will never qualify for a hello fresh or any of these other deals are out there because the media buyers are too lazy to to offer a deal to them. And Okay. So the guy gonna do a 25 dollar Cpm. After the cut for the media buyer dah, that's down to 19 18 17. And then they get, you know, 34... What is that... What is that high level math here? 48 dollars. No that that's 51 dollars. Per spot?
Is it worth it? No. So if you have the opportunity to have a campaign that offers you the ability to earn a a higher than a Cpm through a different model in yes using a promo code. And a few other variables, you know, my biggest challenge is with with with promo codes was securing the best deal. You know, if I advertise, it's even true today for Godaddy, if I promote Godaddy and give a promo code out. Consumers are smart today. Many people have that honey plug in on their Chrome browser. And
guess what they do. They go to go godaddy by a product, and then and some pop up comes up says, hey. There's a way potentially I have a better deal for you and replaces my promo code with someone else's that I lose the credit for the sale. So if you can secure the best deal for a product or service for a period of time, or no 1 else can observe that. In other words, you say, okay, You're gonna get 25 percent off, you know, product XYZ from the Ac dynamite company.
You then win win because they're gonna go... If they wanna go buy that, you've you've basically said I endorse this, which you truly have because it's a product you picked. Then guess what? You win because that promo code will not be upset by someone else. So this is definitely not about brand advertising. This is about products and services. This goes back to dr r. Pure d r. And Mh. But with a twist, implemented some of the stuff that I've implemented on my own website.
Know, having the promo codes publicly displayed on a page, and etcetera, etcetera. So right out of my playbook, So, you know, to my opinion is we need to take back control and, Rob, Yeah. But what's what's the irony on this though? Let's let what let's think about it is that you know, these models that you're talking about in this this process of sponsorship takes us back to the earliest since did it beginning anywhere this medium exists. That's right. Right? Or not that exists. But
Right. But you a week... But how people monetize in the early days. Right. And it was really based on building trust. Right. You know, really at the end of the day, Does your audience trust you as a host or represent a product or brand and make a recommendation? Yeah. Right? We've evolved this medium to be kinda like, it... There isn't a trust relationship really anymore that's really based on anything that's been demonstrated to the audience. It's just been an implied trust.
But when every sponsor you have on your show is is probably not something that you have personal experience with and can demonstrate that somehow or share it just by by sharing your knowledge of the product, at a deep level, right? An emotional level and experiential level, it it it kind of takes us into this realm of, like commercial radio, right? Which were we're basically we've been moving this industry towards closer to
Right. The radio advertising model for many years, and that that's that's been something that the industry has wanted to do because we want to monetize things more, and get more money to build bigger shows, and but we're seeing a pullback on that right now. There's not the investment in big shows right now. And so now we're starting to fall back into the roots and what actually works and what builds more organic relationships with audiences.
And Yeah. To, you know, and to me, This is why we made the relationship with Back media. And Dave and I are on the same page on this attribution piece. We're gonna do pure deals, as pure as we can in the way we do them, and Mh And the the ad tech can pack sand. And People's was oh, whoa. Whoa, you can't do that. Yes, we can. How much data do they need to be happy? Right?
Yeah. It it it at some point And again, this is this conversation that we're having right now, It's purely for those that just want advertising. And it and it's what what percentage of the market and now granted, I think there... There's a desire of the hosting platforms to be able to get more money to more shows? Yeah. Absolutely. And and I think we want that, but what are we compromising to make that happen
is the is the big question. And so if you tie back, and go back and, and we, you know, we think about these tiers of monetization. We've got value for value. Which in the purest sense is probably the model that most shows should really be approaching. If you even before, they start thinking about taking an advertiser, you know, get that listener support. The value for value is really going to, you know, time talent or treasure. And it... Because then it ties into more than just getting money.
Time and talent means you get people in your audience to try to to help you, submit clips, submit ideas, help you with social, do do the things that you don't have time to do using your audience and the the biggest fans of your shows to provide their time and talent. Then there's some that have their busy lives, and they can provide treasure. They can provide
some support. Whether that be through a monthly Paypal donation, whether that could be through live streaming stats, that whether to be by boost in value for value, That's fine. And then promoting yourself? You know, what what are you offering? You know, are you using your podcast as a funnel? And, you know, when you're small, you know, those are probably the 3 options. And then now that this this platform that I've been exposed to, I think will become a fourth tier. Now, if you get big,
Yeah. Go sign that big ad deal. Mh. You know, I did that. And I'm still being rewarded for the hard work that in, I'm... You know, it's It's it's in its it's it's money. It's real money. So Yeah. When you get all these technologists in the middle and sn little media buyers that want every little speck of of information I'm so done. I'm so done with with ad tech. I I really really am. And it it's the same thing in programmatic.
Mh. How many people, how many hands touch the percentage of that revenue before it gets back to the podcast. A huge amount. I bet you 50 percent. This is why when we did our deal with sound, I said, I will take, I'll take less money to make sure we make the podcast get the maximize amount. So I took a a very small, very small, like almost like an administrative fee. Mh.
Because we're... You know, we have to write the checks and do do the accounting and we're not really do the accounting, but do all the do all that, you know, basically administrative work. I took a small administrative fee. Why? Because I want the podcast to earn the most even in this deal that I'm talking 2 with this new platform, Todd's gonna earn 0 revenue. Todd is Todd in Blueberry. 0, but guess what's gonna happen. We're gonna be able to put potentially, money in podcast pockets.
Make them fulfill the feedback cycle. They'd be able to say Mama? Or their partner or whoever it is. I got a check for 82 dollars. You know, let's put that against a bill, or I gotta check for a hundred and 82 dollars. Let's let's put that against a part of the car payment or whatever it may be? That that basically justifies the time the podcast are put into doing the show There's there's a multi tiered approach here, and podcast can have it all.
Yeah. When it does raise the question of my mind too, Todd around the the desired metrics in measurement. Yeah. That that are out there as well, And in this this case that this article is making about, you know, that We need streaming metrics, not download metrics, and somehow that's gonna make the advertisers happy. No. And... We found nothing else and happy. Right. Well, I mean, what is it about that streaming metric that will make them more
happy? I I think 1 of the things that we haven't seen is transparency on both sides of this Well, well, all I hear is the advertisers wanting more and more and more and more data to be able to whittle down the effectiveness of these campaigns, and maybe ultimately it drives lower Cpm. Well, that they're definitely gonna pay less because you're gonna earn less. Right. And it's also... But yet at the end of the day, what's the actual Roi on these things too? That's not being shared
back from the... Right. To the sell side. Right. What's the Roi? What's the effectiveness. So there's not a balance in the marketplace right now that it's it leans entirely towards this industry catering to the needs of the advertisers. Because what if we... Whatever we're done over the past 10 years. So we got the Iv spec in place. Everybody took a haircut. Anywhere from 5 to 30 percent. Mh. And and many platforms took a haircut, here recently with the change Exactly. The Apple
platform. You know, and and there's a percentage. We didn't see as big of a haircut, but we saw a little bit just because of the change in the way... So... You know, So, yeah. So everyone took a haircut everyone. Took a haircut. And Yep. Did Cpm go up? Not a dime. Right. So supposedly, though the numbers are much more Backgrounds accurately. Accurate. Right? Yes. But it it it didn't move the needle when It comes So we've, you know, the meals... And and so did did the Cpm go up? No.
And they said, no, that's the goal. Well, that was the goal, but it wasn't the reality. So now now, I'm, I'm... If we careful what you wish for folks? Now you're gonna say, okay. Let's go to streaming and numbers are are now lower. Yeah. Means podcast make less money. Yep. But if if that but your Roi is still there. If if if if I had a absolute under unwritten Omni an guarantee that we switch to streaming and my podcast are gonna earn more money
because the the con... The the the content more valuable now. No. It's not. What's they're gonna do is gonna say, okay, Now we got you all on streaming. Now we don't need host red. Now we're just gonna fill you with crap. See it's a double edged sword. Alright. He must sleep on the devil. You know, come on. Well, and and thought it. But I think back to the past, we've always said, be careful what you wish him. That's right.
Because could you pull back the covers on everything and our granted, this isn't being said to say that that there's anything being hidden here, but there is a level of of kind of assumption of connection with audience that goes beyond hard metrics. Right? So it's you know, it's really a double standard because a lot of these these media buyers been buying commercial radio for all these years, and there's less data there. There's no data. Lots more money over there. There's no data.
Right. You know? Yeah. An an estimated market I, you know, if I if I advertise on my little radio station, that they can tell what the maximum size of that audience. Is gonna be based upon how far that signal can be heard. And then oh, okay. That radio station gets this percentage of market share supposedly. Right. Right You know. And, you know, so we're gonna, you know, you you... This is what your value at. That's what the advertising value at.
And if I if I was able to charge radio rates in podcasting, we'd all be rich. Right? We office with really no accountability. Rich. Rich. No accountability for actual listener number 2 2000000000 or not. It... If if we had a radio model, podcasting would be a 50000000000 dollar industry. So there is a little bit of a game being played with the with the digital medium. It's There's a different standard being... When when we and and and who's really getting Rich? The tool.
The ad tech taking their piece out of this. So who's who's who in the end gets bent over the table. The podcast Right. Yeah. Started I'm being graphic tonight, but it's it's just 1 of those things that I got fired up. You know? Is this, like, finally, I talk to someone today that gets it. And has serious serious street cr. Mh. He thinks it's... They think the same way in sick sick of the same bs that I'm sick of. No. So III... I'm moving full force full full steam ahead.
We'll be able, you know, probably take a couple weeks, maybe a month they get something put together here, but we are going to rock and roll with this. And when when I explain it all, I think and when it's... And it's gonna be made available public to everyone. It's not gonna be a blueberry exclusive thing. They're just ramping up. I mean Todd I know that this conversation is not gonna be popular in the podcast industry. I mean, it's...
It... There's a constituency in the industry that is like, Gun h, monetization, Gun h advertising, Gun h, we're all here because we have to pay pay our big, you know, staffing and and, you know, there's expectations and now, for monetization and podcasting and we're we're basically saying that what we're what the industry is pursuing right now is kind of a little bit of a mistake. Well,
I that's that's a tough conversation to. And I guess my question for you, Utah yeah and and I need to be held accountable to this question too is, okay. This is our opinion about what's wrong what can we do to make it right? Up until, let me look at my... The time here. Up until 8 hours ago. I didn't have a solution. Yeah. So this is to me, the conversation I am today, game changer. Is it perfect? No. No system is. But is it fair? Is it transparent? Absolutely.
Absolutely unequivocally fair and transparent. And I guess, that's the criteria that's most important. Yeah. So so if we want to get over finally after 5 years, get over 2000000000 in industry advertising sales, which I I don't know if that's gonna happen this year. Year or no it's not at some point in the future, but we're basically stagnant right now own advertising growth? It's podcast advertising is facing, existential crisis. And nobody wants to talk about them. News the
thing. It's a... It's facing extension, and it's gonna hit a wall. I think we already have. Haven't we... Well, I probably we have, but it'll become more apparent. And why have we why have we hit the wall? Because media agency buyers are lazy and they're were not... And I, you know, I'm probably pissing some people off here. But they're they're not willing to look down and come up with innovative solutions, and they want... They they want control. They
they didn't die... What I was demonstrated today, really takes... Man, It it will by... It takes the control back in a big, big way. And the company that has built this, They're gonna be right... They're gonna be handsome... Someone is... Even once this gets out and gets momentum. Someone's gonna come in and try to swoop this up. So... But once the model is laid out, and people see the value in it, then even though it gets swoop... It could be get swoop up and bought up, it can be duplicated.
Mh. And there's there's a way ahead. The question get back get gets back to also, is there a patent on this? That... There's a patent on some of the tech. Yeah. On some of it, but the fundamental a way of doing this no. I don't think so. He did mention there was a couple of patents, but it's on preexisting existing tech. This is... Again, this is someone that's been in the space. Tom Webster doesn't recommend people very often.
And when someone is known Tom webster are for 30 years, and Tom webster trust this individual. To me that, that's all... That's all I Steve Goldstein news knows about this platform too. So Yeah. Then it's... Is it from a person that has has an existing reputation in the Podcast media? No. Not podcasting, but has a major reputation in radio. Oh, on the radio. And but they're tired of the bullshit that's going on there too. So Mh I'm not sure this is all gonna work
based on our radio model. It's not a radio model. Yeah. It's not a radio. He comes from radio. I mean, but but the methodology that's being pushed into the medium nose really kind of rooted in radio. Yeah. But this this is a pure. This a pure PURA podcasting solution. Mh. Then it's so simple. I mean, I thought about it 12 years ago, but I never have the tech to build to do it. Which was so funny because I just laughed. Yeah. Okay. So it's not entirely a new idea.
It's just not something... No. They spent 3 years to build a platform to do to do the interconnect, to to to to to build the relationships and connect with sellers and retailers and, you know. Mh So again, it's it's a marketplace of opportunity, and then it sounds like I'm for everyone at involved. Yeah. Essentially essentially. But it went in a unique way. Mh. And again, going back to what I said earlier, ga keying the best promo code? Does it create an atmosphere where there's accountability
on both sides of the... That's right. Transaction? Yep. It does. He missing. Yep. That's that's that's the key here. You know, the the agreement they have with the sellers is you shall, you will, and you won't offer a better deal somewhere else. During this period of time that we put this offer together. Mh. And in re exchange, you get access to It's Bev of... There's about a hundred podcast that been beta testing this for a year. So. You todd, let's...
Let's kinda change to right now and kinda kinda move on to talk a little bit about some of the the stats that come out. I know a lot of people in the industry like to to see and try and comprehend. Hell I like to dog on apple. Stats. Right. And and the stats that came out. This week, which which you have stats that come out every week as well or every month. You know, what... Yeah. That are covering kinda where people are listening to podcast podcasts?
Like, what platforms like Apple or Spotify and what's that distribution look like? And and It was announced in Pod news that Lip had their may stats that that showed a new low for Apple podcast. Well, what was the percentage? Sure there are market share. Let me pull it up on the screen here and you can see it here. Let me I put, this is it here. Pull it up here and we can talk about it a little bit. So k. Here it comes. And So we're... This is this is stats from from Lips and hosting. So you're
where where at this? Where what is that? What's that line number when you hover on that? Keep going down then. Where is it? We go to the bottom of couple yeah apple podcast. Yeah. So if Go to the bottom of that purple line. What's what's that number? You keep going down Oh 47. The down is 47.3 percent. And I'm gonna look at Blueberry. That's as of May of 20 24, We are... And then if you... Okay. Go go ahead Talk. We're at 50.59. Blueberries at 50.59 for May of 20 24.
So not that much difference, 3 percent split. But the the significance here is it's it's basically almost like a free fall, though. Because if you back up to October of 20 23, it was at 63.7 percent. And then if you look down the screen, that green line here is spotify. See. That's a... It's that's an incredible number because compared to blueberry are, you know, We don't have anyone above 10 percent. Well, we do. We actually have the Chrome browser
above 10 percent. But again, different audience, You know, we have people that are, you know, a different customer makeup. Most of our customers have their own websites. So get back back down to, let's say, March of 20 22, at at Lips, it looks like it was 10 percent. Yeah. So in in 2 years, we've seen it go from 10 percent up to 23 percent. Spotify make noise and apple's not. Yep. And it also looks like we've seen growth with... I'm not sure what x apple and Spotify.
Is that... Yeah. I don't know what that is that is? That that appears to be growing and the the other 1 that's scoring is Mozilla and firefox. Yeah. See. That's that... For us, we are our browser share. Chrome specifically is at 10.85 percent. And Apple other, which is known as Apple core media Is it 6.39 percent. Yeah. You know, and our our spotify number is 1.53 and and people say, how can I be? How can it be? Well, people don't listen to attack religion.
Business news on spotify, which is, you know, basic my top 5 categories. Okay. It says this is podcast apps under 5 percent market share, and it shows That's an outlier Firefox growing. Yeah. There's something 0.9 percent. That right I would wait until next month to see what happens there, But Overcast 2.6. Overpass is up 2 percent. So we're where's overcast on our system. Overcast is at 2.45 percent. So a near mirror whereas podcast podcasts attic in that stack.
Let's see. So if I look it down here, Podcast, Attic. I bet it's the next 1 down. So just go to the next It's this 1 here. Podcast attic is 0.3 c We're 2.39 for podcast adding. That's a big difference? Big difference. How about cast box? Gas box is green right there. And what's that number? Fall off there? That's a fall off. No. That's Google podcast. Cast box must be this 1 right there. Yeah. Go to the box and see what that number is. So they have 1.11.
And cast box for us is 2.26 whereas Google Podcast app for us is 1.27. And it... It's, you know, it's steadily dropped. It was, like, number 3 or 4 here, before they start. Of course, that's just gonna go completely to 0 here very, very quickly. Mh. So Yeah. Spotify is the big winner in it probably in the big winner in the Google podcast drop off. Oh, yeah. I would imagine Yeah. The the removal of Google podcast podcasts has
really helped spotify a lot. Yeah. And at least a couple couple of percentage. Jeffrey asks, how will these changed to spotify video... I don't think it's gonna change at all because there's extra effort just... And actually, you are screwed if you you screw your audio show if you if you upload video the... Over there. Okay. Yeah. So... Oh, okay. So here's the the percentages on on on your platform. Yeah. Let's let's expand on this. A little bit more. Okay. So you can see Apple is 50.59
percent. Yeah. So is 8 5. But again, it should be... It we... It would be natural. We we have power, everyone that publishes uses you know, uses our our our players, so we should be high on mobile desktop. Yeah. That's true. And it look looks like you're you're showing good numbers for overcast and like guess attic. Yeah. It just spotify our outlier. Right. And then Apple other. Right? So should that be numb... Should that number be added to the pot... The Apple podcast? Which 1? Kinda number
the Apple other? No. Because that's Apple core media. That is basically anyone that apps. Yeah. Other apps. Jeffrey said, should we not be putting up Spotify audio and video or should we only put video on Youtube? If you put up Spotify video, you need to do it in a new a new listing. Because if you put up a video on Spotify, Your audio Yeah. Is not no longer served. Yeah. It's it's under longer there. Well, your number here for Spotify is 1 point. Yeah. 5 3. Yeah. It's
again. Now again, the reason it's drove down. No one's listening to religion and and I have a massive religious user base. Mh. Interesting. Yeah. Alright. So... Yeah. That's interesting. Done. But, yeah. I'm not worried about Spotify video. Mh. I will say we've, you know, we we've launched some new stuff this week. Babies good room to talk about that I get to toot my own horn here a little bit. Sure. We've wait... If this is a pretty basic 1.
We've basically created a art generator for, podcast podcasts at Album Art. So it basically we give folks the ability to to create Album art and be able to edit it and put your, you know, put your your text in and, you know, show title and all this stuff. And basically, gives them the ability to... And it... It's really... There's a lot of onus on the podcast write a good prompt. And if nothing else, help them, get some
album art. If it turns out, and again, I think probably 50 50 percent of the time they're gonna be able to get something decent. And and we've we... We've we work quite a bit on making sure that the instructions were there, tim, you know, you need to really write a good prompt, and you can do this chat Gp. So it's not like... Or claude. So you you could do this anyway... The only difference we made is it's right in the platt form, and you can you can update the
update it with the a couple clicks. So it's not gonna be for everyone, but just something we added. It was pretty easy add. But the the... 1 of the big things we added earlier in the week was Rob, how many times have you heard of, podcast or say, how do I compare to other shows of my own category? Have you heard that? Yeah. I've heard people say that. It... Because they'll go and look at other shows yeah in the same genre and do some compare So what we actually do is
a roll up. We basically say, okay. Here's your primary category. Your recent episodes is an example that I give and it's hard to see because it's... We basically say, you know, your recent episodes. Last 4 episodes you had an average of 743 downloads per episode. Then we give them the global averages of those shows we measure at Blueberry for comparison. So we also say, okay, you're doing 4 episodes a month. So we do a comparison to shows that are doing 123
and 4 plus episodes a month. So as an example in the what we put on the blog was shows that we're doing. What episode a month was getting 3 and 49, 2 episodes 02:17, 3 episodes 4 85. 4 plus episodes 9 70. So you can kinda see... Alright, Then this particular example, you're doing 07:43, someone comparable in your categories doing 9 70. So Mh. We basically laid out how they compare to other shows in their category. And then we did some work on our trending charts.
We basically made it more granular to let them see more detail or dropping off and stuff. The training charts are you know, we've got a basic trend. Or download trending. Is it down... Just download trending. Yeah. And by day by month, and we give them the ability now to kinda see data by year and basically it gives them a little more. It's just more graphical. I guess, it's the better way to sai. So, yeah. So those are the 3
things we put out this week. And again, actionable information it hopefully, will help your show. Now, it could... You know, some of that category comparison stuff could be pretty scary because if your number's is 82, and you're doing 4 episodes a week, and the the industry average is, you know, or our average is 886. Then, you know, we've got some work to do. We've got some building to do. Right? Yeah. But it's just again, transparency, How is your show doing, you know?
And Right. So that... But that category comparisons only be able to our customers that are on our thrive program. So Anyway, that's what we've been up to little whack. Lot of little whack mole stuff. And meanwhile, I'm still trying to. Go. Oh, no. No. You you go and finish right yours. We we've been trying to get our clip creator across the finish line. And just the prompting thing it's just kicked my butt.
And and I started... I said, well, why don't we try because we we have the ability to switch large language model based upon the best use case. And we switched the language model over to a different 1 that I had been testing on and I think I can get my clip gray across finish line now. Because because the the the responses that were coming out from the system where we're using was absolute garbage you know, as basically telling us I, pick out 5, 5 highlights of the show. And
It it was bad. I mean, it was really, really bad. So bad. That's why I haven't released it in the last month. So... So was it AAA partner platform that was specializing and those kind of... No. It's just 1 that does a better job. At at that type of a query. Okay. So... Is it a, like, a large large... Yeah. That's 1 of the lot large filter. It's 1 of the large payments. Yeah. It's not a... Good. It's not not my
custom. But no. But a different 1. Well, let's just put it this way Chat Gp didn't do a good job. Yeah. I mean, I think that... There's an important takeaway from that. The... In some stuff chat, G you think great. It it it does kinda struggle with stuff. Some... Sometimes. Yeah. And and no matter... Have... Oh, go ahead. No matter prompting Fixes it. I I have here recently seen the the image generation of chat, got be better Yeah. 4, get get a little better here. It's still
it's still little... Still off. Yeah. It's not perfect. Right. Still spells words and, you know. Yeah. It does. Or completely creates its own language. Right? It's yeah Yeah. Yeah. It's... It in in in not only language, but symbols too. Yeah. Right? Right And it... It he just loves to put beards on men. Have you noticed that? Can't can't seem to break that habit, I keep telling it to generate an image because
don't have a beard on. Right? Yeah. I don't wanna be represented in the artwork as having a beard, and and it just it just can't seem to Yeah remove the beard. So just... You know some of some of this stuff is h, but it it it is what it is journey. So, Todd, on a on another topic, the...
There was a digital news report 20 24 that came out saying that podcasts continue to attract younger, richer and better educated audiences with news and po shows that are heavily skewed towards men and partly due to the dominance of male host this is primarily outside of the United States. So we're seeing data starting to come in from from research, around audience growth outside of the Us. Here's the actual... This is in bad news. Thank you, James for hosting this up here
and bring it to... Who did source? Reuters. Reuters Institute News report. Yeah. It was... Yeah. The digital news report 20 24 is what this... And how many countries? Uk Usa, Germany France, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Norway, Sweden Finland, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland Austria, Japan, Australia Can. So that's 1 this county country here. 12345678, 09:12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 07:18 So it's pretty big study, and they talked to 40000 people across those 20 countries. Right.
That's a good. That's a big that's a big sample. Right. And this chart that we have up on the screen, if you're listening to the audio on this, charts, the growth of any podcast versus news from 20 18 to 20 24, and and what we see is on the any podcast, it started out about 29 percent of the population listens to a podcast at least once a month. Yep. In all these countries. And then over subsequent years, it it goes up and down a little bit goes from, like, 29 to 28 and 20 19.
And then in 20 20, it goes up to 31, it stays at 31 percent through 20 22. And it has a, like, a 3 percent jump in 20 22 up to 34 percent, and then it stays at 34 percent through 20 23 and then jumps up to a 35 percent in 20 20. Whereas news podcast day 11:10, 11:11, 11:11, 12:13. So... Pretty pretty flat line. Pretty flat. But it's being rude or. Yeah. Go ahead. Oh being it's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go Sorry. We're stepping on
each other again. It's okay. This the this growth doesn't map precisely to the growth of audience. In the podcast market, I think the podcast market grows a little quicker in the Us. I meant say, grows a little quicker than this. So we have seen steady growth, but it's not as quick as what's happen historically in the Us, but go go ahead and talk. That's what you were gonna. I... It just... It it's, you know, having done a new show. Even though it's a tech news show for
nearly 20 years now, you know, I... It's it's pretty obvious. You know, my audience runs mean, heavy on men listeners. But, you know, we we've slowly grown the show from 1 to 3 percent of women listeners leadership to maybe now 12 or 13 percent, not much higher than that. As I do my annual demographic surveys, So it makes sense when they say that new shows That's interesting. And what was the specific quote about new shows over outside the United States?
The exact quote was podcast podcasts continued to attract younger, richer, better educated audiences with news and politics shows heavily skewed towards men. Mh. Partly due to the dominance of male hosts is what they're... Oh. That's their that's the attribution. Right. And then adding many markets have have have become saturated with content making it hard for new shows to be discovered and existing shows to grow audio. I I
don't... I don't... Add some that's a weird assertion based upon where we're at today and the number of new episodes being put out every month. Well, that and also, you know, this is this is a reflection of what's going on outside of the Us. Yeah. Yeah. Other countries around the world this is the the perception, but we've gone through phases in the Us where people have
felt the same thing. But when when when am I talk to you know, when we go to podcast events, in a podcast show and, you know, it's it's a, you know, great mix of humanity, but I rarely hear about, a lady saying. She's doing a news or politics show. It's either you know, It is unusual answer. Yeah. So maybe it's just... It shows out there, but... Yeah. But I I, you know, I You know, It's just, like, sports shows. You know, sports shows are mailed pretty male dominated.
And there's there's ladies that are doing those shows, but you don't hear men doing fashion shows, or, you know, or doing a lot of self help shows So, you know, I I think I think we have to take into effect, you know, that everyone thinks the world's flat right now when everyone is you know, everything every everyone is everything. Well, no. There's still this... These trends of, you know, Yeah. I'm not a sports fan. But I have friends are absolute fan, and they they're they're
they listen to nothing for sport shows. That's it. They don't listen to you know? And we... There's there's trend lines around what what people are interested based on this calendar, and their page. Right? Of course. Our our legitimate, we shouldn't go through looking at this data from the standpoint is that everything should be equal equal. Yeah. Right? Because women or or females have different interests than. Males have. Yep. And so we... We we
have to take that into account. We can't That's why that's why true the same Wrong because there's enough women doing sports talk show. Yeah. That's why news talk show. That's why true crime is so heavy and women listeners. And, you know, it's it's it's a weird fun phenomenon to me, but but it on the other hand, the the assertion that younger and more affluent Well, pod podcasting has always been neither to that. Catered to people that
if if we look at... If I look at demographic, surveys, and I can look at a bunch. It's there... There's this line. It's like it's like this for those of you that aren't watching It's basically, like, a, what's the best analogy here. You know, on the left, you have people with no high school diploma. Right? And then you have high school educated, associates, bachelor's degree at the top of the pyramid, And then on the other side, you have
a master's degrees. And then at the bottom of the other side, the peer media have Phds. Of course, the fewer people with Phds and right. People with bachelor's yeah to but still the percentage of people listening the podcast with Phds and master's degrees and and bachelor's degrees probably are more from a percentage standpoint than those with... Because if you look at a non and and no diploma, no high school, that them like, it it's it's lower than national average. Yeah. So
And there's nothing wrong with... You know, I went 20 plus years and coming out of high school and only having a high school diploma, and only later in life did I get my my bachelor's degree. And, you know, I made a great living. I it built a business without having a bachelor's degree. So there's nothing... There's... And here's the thing at 2 we have to think about. It's a lot of non degree holders are just is in in affluent. Right. In matter of fact, some people are
being very, very smart now. They're coming out of high school and they're working the trades. And in 5 years they're making a hundred and 50000 dollars college. Yeah. They're making a hundred and 50 grand. You know, which is is becoming less necessary for creating a career. I mean, I a college degree is not always requirement. And probably with all this Ai stuff coming, it's gonna disrupt a lot of jobs. Yeah. You're probably safe if you're a plumber.
And then nothing... And we all need plumbers, and we all need Hvac people, and we all need brick layers, I, we need these people. You know, Right the world was built upon trades people. You know, the the the the chair you're sitting in today. It would not exist without people at working trades. Yeah. Well, manufacturing, you know, creating a hard product. So what's the definition of a affluent? Economy is well, I think that definition is probably changing
right now to some degree or... Yeah. But, you know, they say a affluent. What does a fluent mean? It flew to me, you know, it means h knob and h Toy, and, you know, you know, a affluent means buying power. Right? People have buying power. So... I think we're all under attack on that side Oh my god. Because of inflation now. So... Yeah. Heavy you have you went to the grocery store lately. So by the way, we have been live and lit today.
And I do wanna read a few sets, a few a few comments Sam Seth came in last week with 1449 Sad. He says, true fans support spotify impact on Rs and what podcast should know. True fans, support from Spotify, impact on... Oh, okay. This was from Show 5 90. He just basically boosted the show. 1701 sets from Mike Dell. Hi, guys. Spotify just stay in their lane, music. So... And we've had a bunch of people
that been streaming sets. Too. So I wanna thank those of you that are streaming stats by the minute. Chad f has been started streaming the show here a little bit ago today doing it while we're live. And, yes, we are live and lip streaming the audio version of the show and you can find this show on those new fan podcast podcasting apps from at podcast apps dot com.
So Then I found AAA website that does a terrific job of shrinking podcast artwork down to you know, like like going from, like, a 3000 by 3000 pixel Cover art? Yeah. That's maybe, like, 1.21 0.3 megabytes in size. Mh. This this website will shrink it down to, like, 200 k. And still keep its it's quality. Is it smash it or what is it? It's called tiny. Oh, tiny P and g. Yep. Dot com. Tiny p g has a wordpress plugin for those of you that want to smash your images before they are post to
keep the image size. So... Yeah, I'm filling familiar with tiny P and g. You are. Okay. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. And, frankly run that plugin in on new media show. Oh, good. So it takes the the art that I create and reduces it down to, like, 200 k. Yeah. Because the... There is a kind of a recommend. I'm not sure. Does... As far as You know, Todd, does Apple really enforce that, file size restriction of 05:12 volume. I I don't know... Thousand by 3000. I
at this time, I don't know. You know, but that's always not sure if they force of you? It's been the 8 ted. Do you guys force the 05:12 k image size? I have noticed it when I shrunk it down, I recently did an update to 1 of my podcasts, and I did notice that the update happened a lot quicker after I crunch it, I mean, if I traded the artwork out. Yeah. That the update happened, almost within a, you know, 12 hours of me. I pick The key is to use a new name. Don't name it the same thing.
That that kinda helps kick stick kick start to process a little bit. Mh. So... Well, it's because the server sees something new there doing maybe pick it up quicker or too because it sees a change. Yeah. Because Apple will scan your Rs ss looking for changes on some sort of a cadence that it has based on your publishing frequency and things like
that. So... Yeah, it It was just an interesting site that I came across because I was I was looking to crunch my own artwork down because it was too big. So it's a common problem. So here's the thing that I wanna hear from those of you that are listening. You guys stay very, very quiet.
And I don't know if you're throwing darts at the screen or it, you know, But, you know, Rob and I, you know, we we did a pretty deep dive today into this, you know, and me being a little bit expressive in this ad tech and and, you know, downing your hearts. You know, where... Where do guys stand on this? You know, where do you stand? Are are are are you are are you drinking the ko aid of of kissing the the advertisers, but or, you know, where do you guys stand on this? Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah. Bader Dragon send us a comment that says Apple podcasts allegedly no longer prefers 500 k image files. And and it will take images, files of any size, still best, though to keep it under 2 megabytes for sure. Ted? Is that true? I would like to think that because I mean, I would to Yeah. Me too. Like images look as good as they can. Yeah. Right? Because I would think if you crunch your down too. They're doing some res sizing already
in the app. So Because... I mean, if you crunch down too much, it's probably gonna lose some integrity of the image regardless. Yeah. Yeah. And depends on the quality of your monitor too. So if you have a color grade monitor, you'll definitely see the change. I have 1 color grade monitor that Dell sent me years ago, well, not that many years ago maybe 3 or 4 years ago that I absolutely a adore because until you've edited on a color grade monitors, it's it's pretty...
And what I mean by color grade is what you see is what is actually portrayed You know, it's it's the best... It's it it's got the exact color code, You know, you're seeing the right... The real color. Yeah. Because I mean, a lot of people are realize it, but monitors, computer monitors have different settings and Yeah. In display of colors. And it also can be be driven by
your computer too. I've got a little it bitty blackmagic design monitor that I can see when I'm doing white balancing with the Tri caster because the white balancing and color correction that I do for my show with a Tri caster. If I use the monitor, I'm just got cheap down monitor off the side. And it
should not be used for that purpose. So that's why I have the small blackmagic design monitor that I can see as I making the color correction to make sure that it you know, what is being streamed is is what I'm... You, is... Again, as close to being color corrected as compared to what I'm seeing on that that horrible monitor that I have, you know, kinda off to the side of me in the studio or or the old studio. Yeah. So given the fact Todd that you
you lost your your studio. Yeah. Just prior to you going on your trip, How are you thinking about your new studio going forward? Is there any any kind of things that you can share about how you're thinking about building a new... Yeah. I'm gonna build a. I'm gonna build a default studio in the loft. Oh, you are. Yeah. Now. That's... Is it gonna be still the same concept that what you had in your... We'll see office space or... We'll see? Okay. You know, I have
a little... Again, I'm... I don't I live my my loft is 2000 square foot, but it doesn't mean I have... Oh, that's good size. But it doesn't mean I have... I'm gonna have to get rid of some stuff. I may have to make some room. If I'm gonna build a a 10 by 12 room or something like that in the middle of the loft. And, and again, sloping ceilings. It's the it's tapered like this.
So the edges are not. I can't go right to the edge of the wall and have a, you know, at a 8 foot vertical space behind me. So, you know, I have to be offset from The wall. Behind you. It's. Right. So so we'll... I'll get it figured out. I do have 1 part of the wall that is... Does have a higher vertical So I'll probably build against that. And and then the challenges is the light. This is... Has a on each end of the loft is this massive wall of windows.
So it has natural light coming from both sides and that's just gonna play hell on, you know, trying to get the lighting right, especially when I record at night, And the sun is coming in, you know, yeah. It's gonna be a bit it. So I might have to do blackout curtains on 1 side of the building. Well, you... I mean, you've got big panel lights. Yeah. Yeah. Right in front of you.
Big... It's still natural. On him, but natural light will still, you know, in and and because the sun is gonna be changing angles when I normally record. It it will... It, you know, I can't continue to re white balance every 15 minutes. So there's gonna have to be some some solution. Yeah. I've... I've actually thought about that vader is customized shipping container. Actually, what I've thought about is a, like, they they sell mobile homes? And why don't I take a...
The key would be is to find a half size mobile home that I could convert into a studio. So that's a consideration. But then again, and I do... We to have a place where where I can park it. But again, it's the is the band situation. So I'm gonna build in the studio. I'm gonna be traveling a lot. So I I will build the the studio in the loft and go from there. And basically, I'm gonna... We have automation local communities. So I'm just gonna hire them to come in and build me a box.
Now you're gonna still keep keep using your your tri caster? We'll probably in the box? Probably, you know. But again, we'll see we'll see how it all works out. I may end up using and stream yard or something else. Okay. But Yeah. Renee mobile home studio would be so cool. Right? Have be able to to pitch up to that thing and pull it somewhere. But I don't need a... I don't I don't need a hundred thousand dollar mobile home.
I need a half size, you know? Kind of almost like like a construction hut or something. Yeah. Like, what size would you recommend our arena for for that. I guess it depends on how big a studio you wanna build. Well, I need I need a 10 by 12. And after I've operated for years by 10 by 12. Matter fact, the studio in that I had before was only 10 by 10. So Yeah. It's about the size of my my bedroom. Yeah. It's a bed it's a bedroom. Yeah. Yeah. I do well. It's not.
Perfect size. It gives you enough depth behind you. Yeah. That's key is having enough death behind me. The width is not far you and then some Yeah. Some windows that you can augment but have blinds that you can pull down. Yeah. When I was which is what I do here. When I was in the studio in Hawaii, there was a window front left and directly in front anna a sliding glass door, which never really affected me because I recorded
at night. So there and again, remember where I used to get sunlight shining out my face when we did. It was always this little beam of light hitting you right here. Right? Yeah you know, back in back in the day. Because there was no air conditioning and, yeah, if I if I closed the drape, and I'd cook myself out. So well, that's right. That's right. You you just have air conditioning in that. Not at all. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. In that I
could It's Hawaii. Yeah, Todd. Hawaii is Hawaii you don't need Ac. Yeah yeah. You got the trade wins. It can be really humid there too. Few days a year. Yeah. Yeah. It's not bad. And and the ceiling fan is, you know, all you really need to take the edge off usually. Yeah. But I have gotten spoiled with air conditioner. So it's a it's a new kind of phase for you. Yeah. So we'll see. Interesting to see how you how it looks and where you come
back from? Yeah. We'll we'll we'll we'll see how the we'll see all the bandwidth does once I... You know. But 1 thing is unique is the... Because I've set up, what's the name of the technology? I talked about it. I had spent a lot of money and upgraded my network stuff. And it's got the ability to do fall back. So I've got Star is primary.
And then, well, actually may switch it. I may make the the point to point because as able to get an upgrade in speed, I make I may make the point to point more primary because at at least for the show because it it does okay during rains storms. So if it rains, Star usually goes, you know, belly up. So I would probably make Star length the backup for the live show. And plus Star penalize me if I use too much bandwidth where the other provider doesn't.
So I've got a tower outside of my house that is about, 25, maybe... Well, it goes... It's it's higher than a second floor. So whatever, a 2 story home is and it's got an antenna on it and It's pointing at another antenna about 10 or 15 miles away. And now I'm on of hose at 50 meg connection, but it never gets there. Mh. So there should be enough upload bandwidth using Rest stream I o to have a single stream going out. And I may have to go down to 07:20 and that push it. Yeah. Ubi.
Yeah. That's what I've got. It's a ubi box. So... Oh, okay. What? Fate knows what you're doing. Yeah. I guess so Vader must listen to the podcast. Right. Well, there that must be some occasional crossover here, but, yeah. Between your your geek new central and this show. So... You know, It's it's it's funny. I've got 2 of these ubi dream machines, and it's just like, like, really? That debt there was some money, you know, So... Well, it's like those those those tri that you have are
Yeah. Some money too you know not cheap. But, you know, at the same point, those have you know, those been over many years, you know, there's... To help me with my tax situation. So You've been you've been d those for many years. Well, you can only do it for 3 to 5 years
or whatever is. Yeah. And what what's funny is... I I finally, my insurance agent basically because I have now stuff in a storage unit stuff at the I was, you know, be frank, and I won't say how much, but it's a significant number, more than 6 figures. Well, not 7 figures, but a 6 figure number in gear, and, you know, no no real coverage because I moved it out of commercial space into residential, and then I they have stuff in a storage unit it, and I'm like, oh, my god.
You know, I need insurance. No insurance Because I've had the insurance I had it's the studio was replacement value if the if the studio burned down or I got robbed, there was no depreciation. I I paid the extra premium for a hundred percent replacement value. And So they had to go back to the under underwater and say, hey, here's a situation,
and it... It's taken 2 weeks, and they let me know the other day that they're going to basically, I have to give them an account of what's in each location, an approximate account, and then the policy is gonna be rei issued. So si of sigh of relief that at least I have insurance. That's always a good thing. I think Yeah. Even though insurance rates are going way up, some things car insurance rates have gone way up, and I know home insurance rates in the middle
world. Well, my going up. My commercial insurance was about 2000 a year. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't see my... I don't see my cost of that policy going down to be honest with you. So... But anyway, I'm not stressing that right now, Rob. I'm... Matter of fact, I'm moving locations soon as we get done with the show today, I pack up and move to, a new location. So I'm I'd be... You can't tell because I've got the green screen or whatever it's called. Up, but I'll be at a new location tonight.
So I'm the move So Todd, I I saw a post from Neil Miguel on on Twitter kind of commenting about 1 of our past episodes in in our discussion, and Neil comment is about If hosting companies want to protect the future of Rs assess, they need to offer more opportunities that can compete with platforms that make them redundant. I think what he's talking about is these, like, the Spotify type platforms, I believe that type of a platform as in more help with marketing and lift, but with our results
Not just here's how you do it? Okay. Does anybody want... Yeah, are they ready to pay for that? Well, I think you I I think you've already kinda pursued that a little bit with your, kind of kind of marketing initiative right, the you... Well, again investors? And am I going to if I'm gonna help with marketing. You know, that's money. That costs real money. When a show comes and says help me with marketing. That doesn't... Do you're not gonna get that on the 20 dollar hosting account?
Right. And I can provide you tools I can provide you clip creation. I can help you with email. I can help you with social post. We're doing all of that already. Yeah. But if you want true marketing assistance, strat, these types of things, That... That's money. That's that's big big. That's big money. So my point is that if hosting comes they want to protect they need to offer more as it can compete with the platforms. I don't have to compete with the platforms because... Right.
I have to... They're aggregating audience. Right. Because we're we're 1 to many, not 1 to 1. Mh. As a more help with marketing and lyft. But again, you know how much I pay for my marketing, firm every month? You know, that that's a number. Oh, yeah. That's that's a big number. You know, it's a full time employee number. So... Yeah. Yeah. So I responded to him saying, Neil, it's hard to disagree with you on podcast audience lift via a a better podcast marketing being needed
and wanted very badly. The issue is listeners have free choice in where put their listening time. A listening must be earned in in in very difficult ways like word mouth, and I'm not sure that you can artificially create that. I think it's it's really kind of a 1 of those black boxes in podcasting that isn't isn't easily solved. Yeah. Renee, what what my marketing firm does me does for me at blueberry is most of our social.
P r, traditional outreach, everything you would think a company would need for marketing, Sem campaigns, that type of stuff. They help a strategy. And again, that comes at a full time employee cost. For a mid level, you know, probably, you're... If you're gonna do this as a as again, and and we... We're not a big company. So, you know, that probably that number probably starts at 60000 plus, annually, for any company that's doing any... You know,
you're... Basically, you're not gonna engage a marketing from for anything less than 5000 dollars a month. Yeah. And which is a a typical fee for a P firm right. So if you're... Yeah. And and you're you're only gonna get probably 10:12 hours a week if you're lucky, yep. From that, So... Yeah. But it's very, very focused, very, very focused task. So... Yeah. And it and it may or may not work. I mean, it's... Yeah. That's the that's the question that is always asked is
that it... It's great to put marketing resources behind your show. But if your show doesn't have hooks in it that can actually connect with audiences audience. So if you haven't thought about the content enough, and you haven't thought about you know, who your audience is and who who gets value from your content and it's difficult to to target a marketing campaign You know, I had a customer... I had a customer leave the other day because we were 3 dollars more expensive than a competitor.
3 dollars. Right. There's some price sensitivity there. Isn't there? And it also explains why maybe the podcast hosting platforms, and I think you've talked about this lately haven't raised their prices. Yeah. Haven't... We haven't raised our... Since the beginning. Since we started hosting, we haven't raised our prices. But, yet, everyone's paying 29 95, 49 95, you know, whatever for all these third party stuff, but you know, god forbid, I'm 3 dollars more expensive than a competitor.
Yet had a yet I offer phone support. You know, You can actually talk to a human. This platforms don't do that. Right? I know I did it. When I worked at the companies that I worked for. I did phone supported. But but from a policy standpoint, a lot of the hosting companies just don't do phone support, And oftentimes the the reason for that is is it oftentimes their phone support, people are outside of the Us? Yeah So which puts them in different lime zones. Well,
our our support with a phone call. Our support people are based in the United States and Right. You know. So, you know, I I have 3 full time employees that, you know, answer the phones answer tickets. So Yeah. And, Fade also agrees with us the best podcast marketing is word mouth. Yeah. Most difficult type of promotion to get. Yeah. It's right. Because you're you're trying to change people's behavior. Yeah. That is very much linked to their own personal self esteem and their own personal
kinda of brand in their communities. So getting people to share a recommendation about your podcast is is almost like their they're like part of your team. You know, it's difficult to get people on your team. I'm pretty pro hiring American help. And the and we're Us based company. So we pay Us based wages, Us based compensation packages, you know, the H and 9 yards. And that that, you know, that doesn't... And my programmers are all in the United States. You know. So you you know how much
programmers cost these days. You know, you you're talking a hundred k plus for every programmer. Along with packages. Now I... You know, I am not against at some point, hiring, some people outside of the United States. But when I do, I'm going to pay well above market average.
I'm... If I do that, I'm gonna I'll probably pay double market average because quite honestly, I don't necessarily grieve with, you know, pete, if you're gonna ask someone to work for you and do high level Us based or even European based standards, then you need to pay them accordingly, you know? And and reward them for that for that level of competency, too many companies take advantage of foreign workers, and it it really grinds my ass to be honest with you.
Yeah. And and why do some of my competitors? Can offer much cheaper pricing. Their help is all offshore. They have a few token people in the United States, and that's it. So it depends on where where the company is based and where the team is based. Yeah. Oftentimes There are a podcast host that just don't have much of a team in the Us. Yeah. They're all outside the Us. Right. And and I... And I don't know. They no 1 ever disclose. What they're paying those international workers. So
I don't know. I'm I'm pretty I'm pretty pro built in the Usa, and I know a lot of people don't care about that, but I'm I'm an old guy, so Well, if you care about about support, I think having a team that Us based helps from some aspects of culture compatibility and well, just expectations. Just look... Understanding? Just look what happened with the, you know, the company that you were working there for a while. You know? What they did.
Right. Yeah. And once it gets acquired by a company outside of the Us, then you know, things change, they're they're acquired by company in out the Us or what are they gonna? They're gonna hire local. They're gonna do just like I do. They're gonna hire people 2 country. Right. Yeah. And they are... It it appears that they are looking... I'm I'm talking about stream here is looking at
hiring and keeping staff in the Us. There was a a feeling that they were gonna get rid of your but I think they found that maybe that wasn't the wasn't it. A prudent thing to do. Right? I wanna thank again Chad for streaming the show live today. We definitely appreciate you doing that. Let me see if any other boost have come in. Rob we're long here. So down. Time to. Time minutes? And I do have
a clean audio recording today. I know there was a little bit of, trouble with the audio on the last show, but I've got a clean recording here today. So knock on wood. Oh, that's good. That's good. I'm not sure that we were talking over the top of each other quite as much in this episode. Yeah. We did last week To be honest about it. Yeah. So to bring this at close, I'm Todd at blueberry dot com at geek news on x Guess, we've made the official transition.
Of course, at geek news at geek dot chat on Mastodon. Feel free to reach out to me on any 1 of those platforms. We really do wanna hear what you think about me bashing the ad tech industry. Well, and I think, you know, I think, in it I hate to do it because it it makes us seem like we're, like, like, somehow not with the industry or we're opposed to people doing things to help people make money, and that's that's it's it's not really our intent.
No No. Not at all. Right right. I am a little sick of the Bs that... Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. I can be reached on on x as well. Here's my information at at rob green, and then my email address is rob dot green at g mail dot com feel feel free to reach out to me, and then my my Youtube is is at Rob Green as well. And you you can find this show on new media show dot com. So we keep the episodes updated on there and their audio and video podcast. So we are doing
actually separate Rs feeds. And and the other show that I do every Thursday night. So I do another live show on Thursday and Night 7PM Eastern is also available as a audio and video podcast through Todd's Blueberry platform. So So so, Rob, you're gonna you're gonna like this.
For the first time ever on this episode today, we will use the alternate closure and those on a new podcast app can either listen or watch the show within the same within the same episode, I guess, that's or within the same same listing. And. So we've got that employed. So sam If you're listening, you'll be happy about that. 0I1 thing I was gonna say, What was it? And, I guess it doesn't matter. But save it to the next show. Yep. And
podcast movements coming up soon too. So, you know, I'm gonna try and make it down there, Todd. Yeah. Can. So Rob for the next show, I will be gonna be out of pocket too. I'm gonna be in Seattle then. Yeah. So nothing for the 20 seventh. And of course, then the following show is of, the following show, I may not be available as we can. Right. Yeah. July. So we may not be back for the next a couple weeks.
So or maybe we can work some schedule, but the week of the fourth of July, I plan on actually taking 2 Pto even though I'm overseas, I'm gonna take a week's vacation and that work. Okay. Well, I might... Maybe I'll maybe I'll do an episode a live episode if I have time. Okay. So Sounds good. Bring on a guest or somebody like that. Alright. Alright, Todd. Thanks everybody. Thanks for being here and hope you enjoyed the podcast.