Todd and Rob in the Afternoon. Afternoon delight. With Todd and Rob. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And here we are. Hope you had a good turkey day last week, Rob. I did, Todd. I hope you did as well. Well, you know, Thanksgiving in the Philippines is you go to a restaurant, you pay a flat fee, and you do not get a second plate. That's the fun of Thanksgiving is they get that second plate. Right? Yeah. Or 3rd or the dessert. And then multiple slices of pie. Right.
Right. Right. So, you know, I, I had researched it and I thought I was going to a buffet. No, it was not a buffet. And, I was, I was left wanting about 3 hours later. My stomach said, man, I could use some more turkey and stuffing. And it was it was really good. No complaints from that standpoint. But but I definitely could have used, a a a little more volume. Yeah. So Yeah. Yeah. There's something magic about seconds. Yeah.
Yeah. Absolutely. Comforting. But otherwise, it was, it was it was it was nice and, nice to have a little bit of a break. That was that was all well and good as well. So but yeah. Here we are in the controversy. All sorts of them actually. Well, it's, you know okay. So for for the podcasting 2.0 crowd, we are live and lit, but I do wanna make one mention before we get too deep into this. I stopped doing the video restream, and here's why.
It has cost me $90 a month to do just the HLS portion because I'm using Restream dot io. They don't have an HLS output. And I've got the audio stream running. That's that's easy. It costs virtually nothing. And so I just was doing the math, and I'm just like, yeah. You know, this isn't probably the best,
you know, the best use of resources. So, if you wanna watch the video portion of the show, you you come over to either YouTube or Facebook or x or Rumble, you know, because we're on all those platforms, and you can watch the show, live there. Oh, we're over on Rumble now. That's awesome. Yeah. We we've been over there for a while. So, yeah, my Facebook or even Rob's YouTube channel. So, you know, there's plenty of places to watch the video, live.
But, yeah. I just I just couldn't justify it, you know, ongoing. You know, you figured it's, you know, $1,000 a year. So Yes. How are you doing the HLS stream I was sending a stream to cloud dot wowza and they created a a stream. So it's $50 and then per hour of live streaming. So, yeah, I decided to recover, that cost. And so Yeah. For the Podcasting 2 point o crowd, we're live and lit on audio only.
And, but a few days ago and this scene is kind of ironic that you picked it up, but a whole different genre of the topic. I'm gonna read I'm gonna read a statement that was made by by Dave, Dave Wyner. And for those of you And just to give context to who Dave Wyner is. Yeah. He's the inventor of, the the RSS feed of sorts. So he's the brainchild behind that. Yeah. He says, I wasn't clear enough yesterday. We're losing the
word podcast very quickly. It's becoming to mean video interviews on YouTube. Our only hope is upgrading the open platform in a way that simulates the imagination of creators and there's no time to waste. And I replied to Dave. I said, Dave, have you not been following what we're doing with podcasting 2.0? I hope you review the expansion. We've been ahead of this for a while now and understand the threat. And, of course, Dave did not respond to that.
And he will not he will not acknowledge the work that's being done. And he is you know, Dave, I'm sorry, but kiss my ass because there's we we've been working hard. The whole a whole bunch of people have been working hard at expanding RSS and making things better. Where have you been? Where have you been? So I I I you know, and don't take it the wrong way. I appreciate your contributions for what you did in in podcasting in the beginning.
But cry me a a river, at this point because Well, it's Dave Dave keeps talking about same stuff that he built originally for podcasting 20 years ago. And he didn't want to he didn't want Where's the innovation? And he didn't want to expand RSS. I'm a fact I think he even pooh poohed some of the stuff that's been going on. And and and I I don't say that lightly because we've worked hard at this and trying to expand RSS, make people understand the reason. Mhmm. You know, to add lots of great cool
features. And there's plenty of opportunity by all the existing podcast apps out there to to protect it to protect the kingdom here. Now I'm not we don't need to get in the argument of the word podcast. We know that ship has sailed. We know that people they see an interview wherever it may be. YouTube, Rumble. It probably is. It could be. They, you know, they they they call it a podcast. And, and I understand we understand what's at stake here. I do.
A hosting company. I'm but I'm also trying to pivot, you know, and bring stuff to market that serves, both. So Yeah, Todd. I agree with you. I think it's it's a difficult topic from the standpoint that, do we want this is really hard to say because do we want to keep living somewhat in the past here, or do we wanna live in the future? And do we want to see what's happening, and and not not necessarily accept it, but recognize it?
Oh, I think everyone has recognized it. I don't think anyone has not recognized it. I don't hear a consistent, discussion on on this whole topic. And I think it's it's it's because everybody has a different perspective on it. I think it's an agenda too. Well, that's part of it. But this whole thing of of embracing RSS and extending RSS, you know, in some ways, that's that's the more difficult hill to climb is to innovate on top of RSS versus embracing what we
have. But the but the problem is we have what we have works. That's here's the thing. And that's that's my whole point is is that we keep talking about and this really stems from the early a few years ago, the discussion that was coming out of Spotify. A lot of this stuff is coming out of Spotify. And now more recently, the narrative is coming out of YouTube.
But I think a lot of this, kind of reflection and projection and and stuff is coming out of the of the rhetoric that's coming out of Spotify. And it's got everybody rattled about what's going on here. And I think Again, it's it's advertising driven. So Yeah. It's all motivated by by a business interest of proprietary platform. If if we just relax a little bit and it's even, you you know, even in the prep we've done for this show.
Mhmm. The head of Spotify Podcasting is not embracing video, and he's leaving. Yeah. You know, so Thought that was interesting. So, okay, there's there's 2 sides to every story. And in the end, it's very very simple for creators at this point. Yeah. You can have both. No one has ever said you can't have both. But I think there's a correct strategy to having both. Mhmm. Being number 1, have your have your open podcast distribution where you want your content to be. None
of that's gonna change. Apple's not changing. Spotify is still ingesting via RSS. YouTube's doing whatever YouTube's doing. I would not I would not submit to YouTube via RSS. Yeah. I haven't done it with I haven't done it with any of my shows. I wouldn't. So here's here's the kicker. You've got Open RSS and podcasting. Nothing is changing. We're improving it. Get on board. Help us improve through these new podcasting apps at podcastapps.com. Support that movement. Train our listeners.
And then if you're gonna add video, if you're gonna have a video component, sure. Have a YouTube channel. No problem. Yeah. And There's no issue with that. And if you want to be on Spotify with video, have a second show. Yeah. Because And maybe think twice about doing it on Spotify because I'm not sure that they got it right. Well, I would I would I would have an RSS listing submitted. Yeah. If I if I was hardcore and wanting to do this, then I would have a a Spotify podcast
account and do video. Just the video through through that. The problem is is that I I I believe what they're doing when you do that is they're actually splitting the audio out. No. No. No. But you can have 2 listings. 1 is video and one's audio. Is that what you're saying? Right. Have a second show. Use submit What are they doing with the video when you upload? Are they creating duplicate audio version? The only time you have a video and audio version is when you host completely on Spotify.
You have one listing. So you have your podcast, your your audio podcast with Libsyn, Blueberry, Podbean, whoever. Right. You submit that way and then you create another account and have video only. Yeah. But that is publishing directly to Right. They have to to Spotify. Yeah. They have to publish directly to Spotify. And then you get it all. My question is, are they splitting that video publish with the audio listing? Two different listings.
You're just like on Apple Podcast, you'll have a video podcast and you have an audio podcast. Except the other one is coming in via manual submission, not via an RSS feed. And you're done. You've got the you've got everything. Yes. I thought they were they were wanting creators to come in and upload the video to replace audio. But yeah. But it they're not gonna do it from my feed. Well, you're not gonna do it, but I'm just saying is They can't they can't do
that. They can't do that. They have to move off me to have an audio and video on 1. I thought that you could over overwrite your audio episodes. Not unless you are a Spotify podcaster. And you have to submit manually to both. Okay. Alright. I'm gonna have to get in and kind of kind of play Because you can't I can't go into Spotify podcaster and overwrite my RSS feed from Blueberry. This the audio submission, I have to move to them to do that. Well, that's what the discussion was a few
months ago. That That's their strategy. That's what they're they were enabling where people to get in and replace their audio with video. If you have a Spotify for podcaster account. Oh. Oh, okay. Okay. Well, that's something different than a pass through feed into Spotify then. Yeah. But the thing is you can have 2 listings over there. It happens all the time anyway. Yeah. Right. 22
listings, 1 audio and 1 video. Well, you you sometimes Ah, 2 audio Sometimes people end up with 2 2 audios because That's that's the crux of my question. Well, what ends up happening is, let's say, someone's on, Libsyn and they moved to Bluberry. For us to get those shows joined is very difficult. And sometimes if it's God. Spotify has made such a freaking mess. It's just a mess. But anyway, I you can have the best of both worlds. Just don't screw up your audio.
Yeah. And and it's it's all about a drive for dollars. So people need to chill out. Yeah. But why would the guy that's in charge of podcast monetization not not support their efforts here? Does he know something, and that could be why he's leaving? No. We had a conversation with someone at podcast movement about this. Yeah. And they don't wanna do it for a reason.
Build your audience wherever the hell you want and then, you know, I I all I know is is that I understand the value of and another thing, you know, Tom, love you to death. But, I'm still gonna continue to, I don't have him in the in the the broadcaster here. I'm gonna still continue to build my brand on my.com. I'm not gonna you know, I'm gonna make sure that I have a point of presence for my website and for my for my show that is
is is not on rented land. Because Thomas basically say rented land looks awful good. And I'm thinking, okay. Yeah. Yeah. YouTube is a shiny object out there. The little dangly thing. Of course. It looks good to people out there. Of course. It's the new shiny object. And but again, about 90% of podcasters could give 2 shits about video. Yeah. We don't have we don't we don't see it. And we're looking. Believe me. We're looking.
And the shows that are on YouTube, very, very small percentage of them have success. So again, we're talking about some that have huge success making lots of money. Yeah. And then you have everyone else. And those shows are really playing the YouTube game. Yeah. They're playing the YouTube. I mean, it is a a game that caters to the algorithm. Sure. And that's what they're that's what they're doing over there. I mean, I've been really kind of trying to study it
and understand it myself. And it's it is a there's a mixed signal that's coming out of YouTube about success on YouTube. There was a big rumor that was flying around in the YouTube space around the new interest that YouTube has in supporting small creators, new channels of sorts, and driving attention to those new channels, and and giving, you know, these smaller channels, new channels some hope. Right? That they can they can grow fast because YouTube really loves
those new channels. Right? They're gonna feature them and promote them. Mhmm. Which is what everybody wants. Right? It's everybody wants to be able to I don't see that on anything I'm watching. Well, I think that there is some evidence that they will audience map, some new shows. There's probably an emphasis on that because what they wanna stimulate is the interest in new creators creating new channels. Now I don't Bringing in new people to the platform. It's still it's still point 0.
It it's it's it's such a low percentage of people. Yeah. But that's what I'm you know, what what what I'm trying to say is that YouTube has an agenda. Right? Yeah. Their agenda is to drive new creators there, and that's exactly what they're doing with podcasting. Right? They're they're driving creators from the from the audio podcasting space into video and encouraging them and putting out these signals that we will support you and we will
feature you and we will promote you. Signals equal success is 2 different things. Well, and that's that's the much bigger question around it. Is this just a game that YouTube is playing? Yeah. Right. To to garner new content to their platform, which is an advertising platform. And the other Uber trend here that we need to back up and look at is that the the platforms that are pushing all these things are platforms that that are very advertising focused and centric platforms.
Yep. One of the reasons that we're not seeing Apple have a big play here is because they are not an advertising platform. Right. They have they failed in advertising years ago, and they never jumped back into it again. And and so unless they they take on this advertising issue that Spotify and YouTube have chosen to take on, probably Apple's not gonna invest heavily into into growing what they're doing in Apple Podcasts. I guess what we'll see is what's next for them, around support for video.
And but the problem is is that the early signs of what we're seeing even at Spotify is that even even the video monetization is actually doesn't look like it's been worked out. Right? And that people have faith in it that it's gonna work. I I just you know, there is such a I mean, it's like spooning. Yeah. People are drooling all over themselves in the, you know, and here's the thing. I don't see it with I see creators that are, you know, let's just be frank.
If you wanna do video, do video. We've been doing video here for years. And Yeah. I I agree with that. I mean, if you wanna be a creator that is creating audio and video or taking the audio from the video, there's pathways to do that. Now it's Spotify is really kind of messed that up. In my opinion, it's pretty clear in YouTube how to do it. But Spotify is still kind of like we've talked about here is still kind of a mess. You know, it's it's I don't feel confident in doing anything over
there right now. But I think, you know, that what has been ignored is the simple fact that we're not we're still fine. You know? Well, it's these, expectations about where where the the trends of the industry are going. Where is the industry going? Where is it shifting to? Where, you know, where do the the younger people in
the medium Yeah. Want the medium to go towards what their interests are, which may be different than maybe the, the earlier, podcasters that were in this medium that really saw a focus on audio, versus this younger generation that sees so much, sizzle and scale and excitement from, like, mister beast and all these big video podcasters or video creators. And they wanna get a part of that.
So everybody's kinda plus I was thinking about this the other day, Todd, is it I think one of the other big things that shifted here is is the mentality of the podcaster or the creator themselves of putting monetization first. Right? It's almost like people are not going to create a new show unless they have been trained on how to make money from that show from day 1. Yeah. That's a big part of it too. And then that second question is, well, how do I market it? The third question is
what content I make. Yeah. So it's that puts people it's kinda like putting the cart before the horse. Right? Yep. Let's let's think about and Dave Jackson is huge on this too. He's out there. You know, you got to really think about the content. You got to plan it. You got to do all that. That's
the first thing. But people are not focused on that because of what we're seeing on social media and these other platforms where there's all these, you know, consultants and people build your business, and this is how to make $1,000,000 in a year or $10,000 a month. And pay me 999 to do that and all that BS. Yeah. Right. So it gets people in the mindset that, oh, I can start a podcast and quit my job and which peep podcasters have wanted to do for 20 years. Beginning.
Right. It's nothing new. It's just that now we're putting the cart before the horse. For in the early days, we were actually putting building content and building, scale and building audiences, the first thing you think about. It's and I go back and I've been pooh poohed over the years Yeah. About this ability to make sure that you control your brand and and build your own DACA or whatever dot show or whatever domain you wanna use. And for years, people are like, oh, Todd.
You don't need to do that. Yet time and time again, I I'm vindicated. Yeah. Every week Every week, I have shows that come crying to us that they've been deplatformed for just the most stupidest things. No sometimes no reason given. Just a channel shutdown. So I I always tell people, you know, if you're gonna be over there, have a backup plan. Again, people say, oh, this doesn't it's never gonna happen to me until it does. Yeah. And then it's not a fear tactic. It's just fact.
And what percentage I don't know. I don't know what the percentage of channels are are shut down, or deplatformed or d, you know, de deprioritized. But the way podcasters get pretty get pretty spicy at times, we've been able to be as spicy as we want on audio and not have to worry, you know, about someone pulling the plug on us or setting a community standard strike against us.
You know, it it it came up in the conversation, that we had with a podcaster who asked is Blueberry a free speech platform? And, yes, we are. Question. That's an interesting question. Interesting question. Right? And, yes, we are a free speech platform. We Podcasting has been historically, more of a free speech platform. Yeah. Hey hey, Brian. Thanks for saying hello. He said, hey, guys. Glad to catch up. Glad to have you here. Thank you so
much. Hey, Brian. Yep. I you know, we're gonna get, you know, blasted, by certain shows because we keep talking about this, but it's just part of the the medium now. But, you know, going back to the Dave Winer discussion Yeah. We we have the ability to change things. We have the ability to improve the the experience for listeners. In the end, this is what this is about. We have to improve the experience for the listeners. Make it a more enjoyable interactive experience.
You know, one one thing that, we we essentially and and we have a little bit of work to be done in this. We essentially invented super chat for podcasting, with Boost. And, you know, going through a little bit of a transition right now because of some changes to wallet, the holdings and but, you know, it's still working. You know, people can still boost the show and and and, you know, matter of fact, this show got some sats recently
and and people are streaming the show. And, yeah, so you and I are benefiting from the, from that that support of listeners who are are basically using these new modern podcast apps. So, yeah, it's not as slick, but we need some time to make it more slick so that people can eat more easily participate. Lucas says, true. Always have a backup. And he says, also download your XML and all audio files to backup.
You know, I think the key here is is you don't really have to download your XML if you own your own.com. And you have your podcast on your website. Your XML is controlled and owned by you. As long as you pay your hosting bill, you're good. Well, I would say it's it it might be helpful to save a copy of of your RSS feed just so you capture all your metadata, that you use. So if you ever wanna duplicate it in the future, it'd be easier to do it. You could do it, actually.
Yeah. Yeah. But and I just it to me, it's like this causes, this commentary, invalid as it is. And I'm not saying it's an invalid discussion. I'm just saying do what you gotta do and that's the best thing about podcasting. There's no rules. And, if you choose to chase the YouTube agenda, great. Go chase the YouTube agenda. But you're gonna have to have a YouTube strategy. Right.
And that's that's the only way that you're ever gonna find success on YouTube is if you get serious about it and take those strategies to heart when you publish content up there. And it's it's not easy to do. I mean, it's not an easy thing to do. If you look at a lot of the big successful YouTube channels, they have huge teams behind what they do. And they test and they test. You know, like, even in YouTube today, you can create 3 different versions of your thumbnail.
And it the YouTube will actually test each one of those thumbnails for you to figure out which one works best and actually use the best one for you. And there's no reason why we couldn't do that here. You know, we've got the ability to set episode art. It could be up to the app developers to test.
They could do the same thing but we're up again, we're at the mercy of the app developers and their development time and their support and how much money they have behind them, which again goes into this full ecosystem that we've been trying to build in podcasting 2.0, where if you send this show a boost, guess what? The app that you sent the boost from gets a cut to support themselves. The initiative to build podcasting gets a cut.
And then rot we've set those splits based upon what we feel we should support and then Rob and I get the rest. So, you know, there is a there's a mechanism here to have an ecosystem that will support. But, again, it's edge at this point. We we don't have a podcasting 2.0 app that is at 2, 3, 4, 5%. And that's what it's gonna take. It's gonna take a podcasting app to get us to 5%.
But then again, if we think about it, in all honesty, we only need at maximum 10% of our audience to move to a new podcasting app that's supporting podcasting 2 point o. The top 10%, they're the ones contributing to the shows. Those are the ones sending donations. Those are the ones that are subscribed to Patreon or PayPal or however you're getting the money. The rest of the 90% are not. Mhmm. If you get 10% conversion of your audience to donate to your show, you you're a superstar.
So we don't have to convert everybody. We need to convert the top listeners to the new apps to support the shows and the ecosystem works out. And I think that's the thing that's also lost upon people. We don't need to move, you know, 50% of people off Apple Podcasts. That's that's never gonna happen. Never. Though the listeners may be doing that all on their own at this point. I don't know. We still Apple's still strong.
And it's you know, they have this, major competitive advantage that will never change. They have a podcast app that is delivered on the iPhone by default when you when you turn it on for the very first time. Right there it is. So they're never going to have a a complete it's their their numbers are not going to drop dramatically. It's not gonna happen. It it's sure there's gonna be a little bit of sharing going on between Spotify, Apple, and others.
But, you know, they have this I mean, Todd, I mean, the data I've seen has shown about a 20% drop in market share for Apple over the last year. No, Rob. It's not 20%. It's not 20%. People 6 or 7% is what people have seen and some shows some Apple's regained market share recently on some platforms. Well, I've seen stats from Buzzsprout and Yeah. Buzzsprout had an and Lipson that show a 20% reduction in Apple's Not over the last year.
Yeah. No. Is Buzzsprout just had an increase in Apple Podcast share? Their last report show an uptick. Regardless, they're not every do you really think do you really think that Apple is gonna be insignificant in consumption? I'm just I'm just thinking that the the momentum that I see in the marketplace right now, It can be unfounded. It can be unreasonable. It can be wrong. It can be what whatever.
The momentum that I see in the marketplace is Apple is in a state of decline as the attention is being increasingly pointed towards video. And that's what the audience is. Now this is all driven based on what audiences, are are doing. It's up to us as an industry to make sure that audio doesn't lose momentum here. Yeah. I don't see that in our stats at all. And maybe it's because we're so we're you know? Yeah. I think you have to look broadly across the whole industry. Where is the momentum
right now? Where is the momentum in the perception of the audience around audio? Or is the the momentum around video and audio? Right? Where the the research that I'm seeing come out from all sorts of sources, it it saying is increasingly audiences are looking for both. Right? The option to consume video sometimes and But but it's it's audio other. Okay. But, again, don't don't fall for the narrative, Rob. Don't get sucked into the narrative because, remember, it's for a segment of shows.
Okay, Todd. It's not following getting sucked into the narrative. It's what the public discussion that is happening around this medium that's happening, and people are seeing it. And people are are reflecting it. I'm not saying that that should be the strategy on on a strategy towards an opposition to that. No. I'm not saying I'm just saying, though, but what is the the narrative is saying is video, video, video. But guess what? K. But the narrative is coming from research
that's being done in the market. For people that are doing fucking advertising. Well, those are those are the only people that are paying for research. People that care. K. But there isn't anybody that's paying for research that doesn't have a revenue model objective. Right? Again, I I think, you know, what we have here is we have a monetization narrative that's been shoved down people's throats. Like you said, monetization first. I I just Well and it caters to 10% of the
market. So all of this conjecture and all this discussion and all this controversy and all this kind of stuff is all coming out of really the interest of 10% of podcasting. And If if 10%. Yeah. Right. And it's it's driving the the strategies of the of the big platforms. It's driving the the perception of the audience. And there is a factor here, Todd, of of that YouTube as a video platform is the 2nd largest place for people to find content.
I have no doubt about that. But, again So who is got an outsized power in the marketplace But, again, for a around consumers content. But for a very small percentage From an industry perspective. Alright. Right. I mean, industry perspective. Varies audience is doing with their you know? But, again, they're going to a very small percentage of shows.
Right. But that's a different conversation. I'm talking about what what the what the consumption side of this is and where it's where it's trending towards. And I'm I'm concerned that the the attention of the consumption side is pushing increasingly towards video. Well, you know, here's the thing. All the research and all the buzz and all the discussion from the big platforms is all centered around video. Whether it's founded in real
results is a big question or not. See over the next year is we're gonna figure out if people's video strategy has worked out after they invest a lot of money Yeah. To do video. Clearly clearly that's what's happening in the market. I'm seeing it all over the place, Todd. I'm surprised that you're not seeing it too. No. We don't we don't hear Podcasters are not talking to us about video. K. I'm not necessarily talking specifically about podcasters.
I'm talking about creators. There's there's a there's been a big burst in interest in being a Okay. Then a neader. Build a build a YouTube channel then. Be done with it. No. But that's that's that's taking a polarized view here. No. It's not. That's that's what you're saying. Yes. It is. It it you it does take a polarizing view. There's a lot of top people on YouTube that say they're podcasters that don't have an audio podcast. So guess what? Fair enough. So guess what?
Fair enough. My my my narrative on this is is that if if you're a creator, you're thinking about all the ways to reach as many people I don't I don't think most of those people that are trying to be successful on YouTube have a care in the world about audio. Well, I'm I mean, you're making a blanket statement. No. I think I we Lots of lots lots of people that do have audio podcast. Yeah. Very highly high staffed successful podcast. People have huge budgets.
Mhmm. Yeah. So, I mean, again, go look at the just go and find go look at 500 shows. Take take take the Apple Podcast list, the top 200 in each category. K. I'm not talking about performance here, Todd. I'm talking about perceptions. I understand that. Yeah. But in the end And that's that's the part that's gonna take this this whole thing down is once the data comes out and it doesn't reflect what the rhetoric or the proclamations or the projections turn out to be, it's
the same thing around advertising too. I'm hearing, you know, people saying that the podcast advertising market's gonna grow, you know, 12% this next year, but I also saw saw some research that came out today saying that that's projected to only go up less than 2%. So, you know, that's part of what we're talking about here is we're talking about inflated perceptions around what works and where the direction of the medium is going.
And I do worry that if that gets too much adoption or acceptance, that that will drive a significant change in the medium whether or not it's warranted or not. So I don't know how we beat it back, Todd. No. You don't beat it back. Question. You just you have to continue to innovate. Yeah. Well, it's it's hard to stand out with a innovative audio approach right now in the cloud of excitement around visual. And I think that's that's the big challenge that podcasting has right right now is it's
it's not the new shiny thing. So what will happen is is the number of the Edison report should reflect a drop in audio drop in podcast listening by episode. Because who has time who has time to I can listen to 5 times as much audio as I can watch video. I who and maybe people have different lifestyles than I do. You know? I I I think I I think audio fits into a certain segment of one's lifestyle where where where video fits into other.
And, I mean, that's my own consumption pattern right now is that for certain, if I'm in my car, I'm listening. Mhmm. If I'm in my living room, I'm watching. Right? So that's my own personal consumption pattern. You said in your car, you're watching? You said in your car, you're watching? No. No. Well, if I did, I misspoke. Oh, maybe I misheard you. When I'm in my car, I'm listening. When I'm in my living room, I'm watching. Yeah. Or if I'm sitting in front of my computer, I'm typically
watching. Yeah. So so I I think the takeaway that I'm I'm growing on here is that it's not necessarily either or it's both. It's where what the future looks like. The question gets back to is if you're a creator, which, what kind of content plays to video, in a way that's worth doing, versus just doing it in audio? And I think increasingly as a creator, we have all these choices now. We can make vertical videos, shorts. We can make long form, short form,
widescreen. We can make content for televisions. We can make content for Rumble and YouTube and all these different platforms. Content creators have so much on their plate, right, that they have to decide on and choose what direction they wanna go and what resources do they have to bring to that, to be able to do at all? Or are they going to have to focus on just doing audio because that's all they're really capable of doing?
That's the real, I feel that's the tension that we're we're increasingly seeing in the market is this expectation versus reality. Right? And and the reality takes all sorts of forms, like what kind of equipment you have, what what's your ability, what's your willingness to have studio lights, and have HD cameras, and camcorders, and spend 1,000 of dollars on on equipment.
And and it's putting people in a in a in a situation where they feel like they're they're kind of, binded up by so many choices. And it may cause people and especially if they're gonna get into it with a a profit motivation or an income motivation to begin with, it creates this kind of potential of failure. Right? Because people It's right, have have expectations beyond reality. Yeah. Right. Meanwhile, I don't know if you've been watching. I've been flashing the comments.
Yeah. I saw that. Felix, Leland, Lucas, you know, y'all been hot and heavy on the on the comments here. Said, Lucas says people listen to podcasts in their car, walking their dog, running, and that's audio. You're not watching video podcasts while driving your car. Of course, we all know that. You're not. Right. Right. Leland says I've actually considered going back to pure audio. I'm closing the doors of video produce production for podcasting.
He says some not working for you and you're not getting the the the results out of it. Lucas says I think that's Also, YouTube pay big content creators, Spotify and Apple don't. So that may also be a reason to do video. Well, Spotify is paying big people. Big. In other words, if you have what is it? 5000 hours in a month or some crate or 10000 hours or some number. Right. More people walk around with earbuds and Facebook
goggles. But you might be surprised those people that walking around with earbuds might be listening to shorts as Rob said. Felix says I agree with Todd. I I executive produce an audio podcast with a pretty sizable budget and marketing dollars that was viewed over 5,000,000 times, this summer. I also placed it within our assess feed and it was download it was downloaded 1,000,000 times. Mhmm. Leland says it's not so much from the host and but the producer and for others.
Okay. So, you know, I I again, to pick your poison. Yeah. Yeah. I I don't care what people do. That's But if we get back to, you know, the industry, the industry What's that message that we're Well, the industry industry delivered to content creators. The industry can be is could be at risk. And, you know, and going back to the Dave Weiner discussion where he's wants Blue Sky to, you know, to have an RSS injection, they're more likely to follow the Twitter model
and do some sort of live thing. They're not gonna inject ARSES. Blue Sky will not do that. And, of course, he hates x now. He's left x. So, you know Well, all these all these platforms are heading towards a model of Walled garden. Penalizing people for, linking to other platforms in their content posts
on these platforms. Yeah. And so if you even on x, if you post a link to YouTube, your post isn't going to get the visibility then if you uploaded it directly to x and I, you know, and I which I did, last week for the show on my my x account and it got decent views, when I uploaded the full episode of this show, up to up to that platform, and it was hosted up there. Yeah. We we streamed to our our x account this this show.
So, you know, again, I'm against what he has done over there, from that regard. And Oh, you're talking about x? Are you talking about x, you know, basically, Elon said, you know, make your post and then put your link to your post in a reply. And I'm like, that's some bullshit. You know, but that's the same thing Facebook has done. So they're taking the same playbook and and trying to they don't want you to leave. And this is wanna have you direct their
users to other platforms. Right. And this is where podcasters need to wake the hell up. Yeah. And, you know, control that narrative. Come to newmediashow.com. And we don't have a newsletter, but if we did, I could say add you know, sign up for a newsletter or, you know, buy our merch. You know, all those things that can only be accomplished on your own website that is being prevented by other third parties.
Yeah. I don't I don't think that necessarily going live on on x is necessarily a a a favorite approach either. I think I see more list more plays if I upload directly upload a prerecorded video up to that platform than I do, on replay off of a livestream into that platform, which I don't know why they're penalizing live streams. I would think that's what they would wanna incentivize. Right? Is to have more
live content up there. You know, and frankly, I don't need that many views on x. It's just it it it it is what it is. I'm not gonna take the time because time is money. And most people don't have enough time as it is. Well and that's the bigger issue that I see brewing here is that all these platforms are wanting content creators to upload directly to them. Yeah. And Spotify is heading that way. YouTube's already there mostly.
And and you see Instagram and Facebook and all those platforms incentivizing people to upload directly to their platforms. And, Todd, can you imagine a world where there's maybe 10 platforms that are all stand alone platforms that require content creators to upload directly to every single one of them every time they wanna put a piece of content up. And that's that's the real threat to RSS based broadcasting. Rob, that was the model in 2004. Well,
yeah. I mean, that wasn't really in an environment that had a lot of built out social media platforms like we have today. Right. And so so what what's it at stake here really is is how much time do you as a content creator have to get your content out to all these platforms? And what they're driving is a future where you only pick 1 or 2. Right. Right? To upload your content to. So, like, if we were doing this show and RSS wasn't available to us, we would have to choose
between Apple and YouTube or whatever. And those are the only 2 platforms that we upload because that's all the time we have. Oh, thank God we have RSS. Yeah. And that's the power of RSS is to get out to hundreds of listening consumption apps all at the same time. And it just saves a lot of time. And I unfortunately, it feels like we're moving away from that. And I'm not really interested in that. That YouTube and Spotify want. Yeah. Well, yeah. Exactly. That's they want people to upload
directly to them. Right. And so does x. And Yep. Probably blue sky is gonna do the same thing. Blue sky is not gonna take on what But are they your friends? Are they your friends? No. These platforms are for the average creator. For the top folks, oh, they kiss their butts. You know, they get right in there and sniff close because they their whole livelihood depends on that relationship where the majority high majority of creators Right. Right. Get nothing.
You get nothing. What is that? There's a there was used to be, was it Hogan's heroes? There was a famous audio. You get nothing. Right. So Yeah. We're all being our content is all being used for for for profit on the platforms and what they what their revenue comes from is your content. And And you get nothing. And in your user profile, and so that stuff's being sold. So at what point what point do creators wake up and understand this? What? Or will they? Or do they care? Question, Todd, is what
do you do about it? Well, I think I I think I think, you know, the hope and dream is, oh, I'm gonna be Joe Rogan. So I'm gonna take the risk and allow my stuff to be up there. Well, Joe well, Joe was an example of someone that picked one platform. Right? And uploaded all this content to that one platform. Now granted Well, he grew his audience on. He grew. He he built it on RSS. So let's not forget that. That's right. And then and then recently, Spotify opened up the the Joe Rogan podcast to
being widely distributed again. And, you know, Joe is probably bigger than he's ever been now after they did that. Leland, you're you're I'm even gonna laugh at this when he says, I say we all broadcast my own domains. Well, you know, we do. Right. But, you know, you know, using an indent from YouTube. Yeah. So I guess I mean, really, I think it's it's really similar to what we saw happen with the presidential election. Right? It's it's time for the citizens
to stand up, right, and take control. But, you know, you need the average Joe. You and I are just 2 old dudes, Rob. I know. So the average the average 18 year old doesn't give 2 hoots until they do. And this is the thing that's funny to me as I get more people that end up coming to us and saying, oh, wow. We've been missing out. So those are the people I love to help. So, Todd, when's the, the revolution coming?
I made a comment on I I I think it was on LinkedIn or or or Facebook in a thread one time that was saying, well, eventually, after podcasting becomes over commercialized and, has high ad loads as as that's the direction it seems to be heading, When do we invent the new podcasting? That is the revolutionary that conquers the old podcasting. Well, it's very simple. It's when listeners leave, those shows. And And and where would they
go? And they go to shows that have similar content that don't have the high ad load. Yeah. So in the it it's itself equalizes over time, potentially. But if the if the algorithms of these platforms, only play up the the shows that They're they're in full modernization program. And and AI is gonna destroy discovery even worse. It already it's already happening. So Yeah. Because you can't well, I mean, I guess you can. I mean, you'd be interesting to do a query into chat
DPT. And I think I've seen this too where it it is sharing source links now. Right. But it's it's it's picking winners and losers worse than Google picks winners and losers. You might be number 20 in the search engine, but at least you're number 20 in the search engine. In AI, you're nothing if you're not there. Right. It's a single result. Right. Though I have seen in chat GPT here recently. I don't know, Todd, if you played this game with it where you'll ask it a a
question. Mhmm. Right? And it about maybe a controversy in the world or something like that. And it and it'll give you an answer. Right? And then you look at the answer and you go, yeah, that kinda doesn't make any sense. Right? Maybe that's it seems like it's a it's a talking point. But if you try to correct it if you try to correct it and it corrects itself based upon your input, it doesn't translate to me if I do the same query. No. No. I'm not saying that I'm training
the AI or something like that. But if I challenge it, if I probe its questions and say, well, that's not what you said there isn't really true based on this and this and this piece of information. I have noticed that it will come back with a completely different set of data points. It's a large language model. So if you It's not AI yet. Yeah. And if you do that enough times where you question the results that it had and you challenge it, it will back down and say you're right.
That is going on, and these are the reasons why that's going on. So you have to dig a little deeper is what I'm trying to say to really get the truth out of, out of these AI platforms. Meanwhile, December 12th December 12th, chartable goes away. Yep. And, if you haven't removed the chartable redirect by December 12th, your show will not be deliverable. It will just cease. We've been putting warnings up, to our podcasters, telling them to remove
the, chartable link. And if push comes to shove, we will probably, put a fix out a few days ahead of time and force the removal. It's not as easy to do with PowerPress as it is with the Bluberry platform, but there's about 40,000 shows out there that are running a charitable redirect that are gonna be calling their podcast hosting provider and say, why isn't my show being delivered? Yeah. It's almost 32,000 shows. Or 32,000 is the number.
Yeah. Some of those are probably dead shows that, you know, there's no one alive at the wheel anymore. Mhmm. Mhmm. And I thought it was hysterical that, a show called Hysterical from, Wondering and Pineapple Street Studios was named the Apple Podcast, of 2024. So right. A little play on words there, but, it's a podcast about mass hysteria throughout history. Now it's probably a good topic because we have lots of mass hysteria going on in the world today.
Well, it does say something about where we are. Right? Yeah. That that top It's a little little after the year. A little bit of a twist there. Wasn't it? Right. Right. Exactly. I thought it was interesting. Yeah. Well, you know, it's, I'm surprised they only announce one show as the podcast of the year, but maybe that's what they've done before. I thought they came up with a list before, but but maybe not. They usually have different categories. Right?
Yeah. But it also came out here today that, you know, speaking of monetization, that a a new thought paper focused on audio investment gap. So this is this is where advertisers invest in audio and things like that. But there's a big difference between audio consumption in the US, of all ad supported media consumption is about 24%. And then the share of marketing spend it gate it gets us around 8.4%. So it's it's not proportional, right, to to what the prominence of audio is.
And for some reason, it's it's getting short changed on the investment side. Right? Mhmm. And I guess that proves a bigger question. It may be a little bit of the explanation why we haven't seen the revenue numbers grow as fast as what's what's been expected or wanted might be a better way of explaining it.
And then, also, tune in came up in in discussion, which is a little bit of a sore spot, for my my experience in the medium over all these years is that, TuneIn has always been a, hesitant participant in the podcasting medium, for many years now. And I guess they, they announced, I guess, last February that the company was temporarily stopping the ability to submit new podcasts. So the this was about a about a year ago or probably 10 months ago that they
they announced that. And it now it's December, and the company, still says we cannot update any podcast on our platform. So a year later, they can't update anything due to us conducting some construction to our podcast updating form. So it's taken them a year to update their podcasting update form. You can't tell me that there's a lot of will to support podcasting here. I don't know why they just don't kill it. Right? If they're gonna do this, essentially, is what
they're doing. Well, maybe maybe it's time to start removing them from a distribution list. Yeah. I think that that's that's a reasonable statement. Yeah. Because we have them as a a a destination. And if it's one that is is broken, we'll just suppress it. We'll just remove it and take the traffic away. Yeah. And I think one other topic on the whole tune in side is is that, you know, there's been hosting platforms that have tried to integrate with them, to create what we have, like, say, with
Spotify or Apple or whatever. And and back when I was with Lipson, we had it all built on the Lipson side. But the problem is is that the tune in folks never executed on it. And Sounds like what we did with Riverside that they never executed on their part. Yep. So it it created this kind of, you know, kind of like stagnant type of environment for for that platform. And what's also ironic about this is that if you know TuneIn at all, they are a platform that, helps you localize,
the source of your content. Right? So it's it's been catering to, streaming radio stations primarily over the years, and it started to embrace podcasting. And and I know that there's been a a renewed interest in creating local podcasts. Right?
And it it was always one of those shining lights in my thought process that tune in could be that local podcast discovery platform, and drive a lot of attention to local podcasts, ones that are done to support a local community because its whole, process works that way. Well, I think, it's just a it's just a simple solution. Again, the podcast host, if they haven't fixed it in a year, then you remove them Pull the plug. Pull the plug on them.
Yeah. I'm not sure that it's really doing anything anyway to have any kind of reference to them in your Yeah. Hosting platform right now. By the way, for those of you that are watching the show, you can go over and get subscribed to the new media show. There's a little QR code. We see one of you took action on that. So thanks for, subscribing to the podcast. Yeah. If you haven't followed or subscribed already. Yeah. And and I don't know. It's
it's it's sad. You would think that they would, they would want to have more content, but maybe they don't. Oh, and Todd, I don't know that we talked about it on the past show, but Samsung also pulled the plug on their podcast platform. Yeah. Yeah. That was kind of a be honest with you. That whole integration. Oh my god. And I remember all the we went through a lot of pain with them. Total disaster zone is what that was. Yeah. I did that that deal too. And, yeah, it it just
never made sense to me. The whole naming of it, and where they hit it. Texture of it and Yeah. What what information that they wanted from the podcaster just didn't make any sense. So alright. But, anyway, that's so we're seeing kind of a the dust is settling on the podcast medium, and we're kind of Dust is settling. Is that sound like you sound like we're going extinct? No. No. No. No. No. I I think that the fluff, the all of the stuff that's been going on over the last 5
years Yeah. Is is kinda settling out. Right? We're we're kinda weeding out the the bad apples. Right? And and maybe you can look at it from that perspective. Hopefully, that's what happens is that we come back stronger and more focused in the platforms that are good at being podcasting. And these these kind of also rands, ones that got involved in the medium that really weren't serious about it are kinda gonna go away, you know. And maybe that's a good thing. I don't they
weren't driving any listenership anyway. So why have them around to clutter the the space and to make it more complicated for podcasters to to do something. Right? So and did you see this data chart that was off of, sounds profitable, that came out of Spreaker? Mhmm. It's on our our No. Or our outline. The the revenue per 1,000 downloads that they're tracking in there, this is one that I I pulled out of sounds profitable just from a day or so. What
does that mean? Revenue per mile download per bill, which is which is another term for no. No. 4 per 1,000. Okay. That's that's that's the reference. That's the same as CPM. Okay. And so what they're saying here is that they're seeing revenue of $95 per 1,000 downloads. For advertisers? Yeah. For advertising. Yeah. And and I think the the reason that we're seeing this is because of programmatic advertising. People are are loading up on ads. Right? So Wait a minute. So is it is it is it listener?
I mean, podcaster revenue per 1,000 or is it advertiser revenue per 1,000? It's actually, how much per 1,000 listeners, how much that, that that download generates in revenue. For the podcaster. Yes. So if you think about it from an ad load perspective Yeah. Right? So let's say you have 8 ads. Yep. And each, each one of those ads brings in $15 each. Right. Or something like that. That's, that's where
you get up there. So that 95.41 number, which sounds great to a podcaster, but is ash actually a a a reflection of very high ad load too. So you know, I know what, programmatic has been delivering, and that's an incredible number. Yeah. That's programmatic does not deliver the same CPMs as No. But if you add them all up, I mean, if you have, like, 10 ads that run-in a piece of content, right? Is anybody running a is anybody running a 10 ad load? I think that's happening on
on the speaker platform. That's insane. Yeah. So what what we're starting to see is this shift towards radio monetization models moving into podcasting. Because, I mean, if you think about broadcast radio, they've had as much as, like, 16 minutes of ads per hour. Right. So to think that maybe an hour long podcast has 10 minutes, that's a reduction. If you look at from a radio perspective, that's less ads. That's just insane though.
If if you think about the the ad load to get and if it's all based on programmatic and not host read. Even host read, that's that's that's like a 4. That's like 4 host reads. Well, that's not even counting host reads. So if you have a podcast or So they're saying that is purely promoting is including host reads. Yeah. They did they did they did they define it? No. They didn't. Well, there's a link there that says learn more, but that's probably a
sign up thing. So this was actually an ad, I think, in a lot of ways. So, I mean, this could include an average of host read revenue in addition to the programmatic. Rob, I can I can manipulate numbers 7 ways to Sunday here? So, you know, what is the context? You know, that's that's the key there is did they just take a sampling of 10 shows and, you know, the highest across their whole platform, probably. I don't know. Yeah. And I don't hear podcasters that are over there making $95 per 1,000.
Well, that's what they're they're promoting. Oh, and what and and if if okay. And just say they are. That's a great number. But what but what it at what cost? Yeah. Let's say you have a podcast that's getting 4,000 downloads. Right? Yeah. You're basically getting $400 almost $400 per episode. Yeah. At a $95 CPM, damn. I might be able to retire after a year with a tech show. But that is you're gonna have to run, like, 8 or 10 ads. Right. Right. Right. And then the audience will go You wanna
do that. The audience will go into the basement. So it was which is interesting. I had, my biggest GoDaddy month in probably 3 years last month. My my November numbers were That's great. You know, and I've been looking because it didn't come from entirely from the audience. And so I've been looking at the but, boy, I have wherever whoever was using the codes, I'm like, yahoo. Merry Christmas for me. You know? Thank you so very much. You know, I got I could I could use 4 or 5 of those months in
a row. I might be able for the $90 a month that, you know, that Cloud Waza was charging me for a restream in the, you know, just doing the live video portion of the show. Christmas is gonna be good to you this year. Right? Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, the tax man will take 36% of it. So, you know.
Yeah. And you also see the the chart that was put up into sounds profitable newsletter to the chart was basically charting the significance of the audio primes, which Tom has said, are the are the the heavy users of of audio. Right? It it says, how did you discover your favorite podcast? Select all. And this came up, with, YouTube at 48%, Todd. And Facebook, 14%, and Spotify, 14%.
But I also think Tom contends that there is a very narrow window of shows at the top that are acquiring most of the consumption. So again Exactly. He doesn't say across how many shows or or anything like that. Yeah. Yeah. Again, the previous the previous results I've shown is is a very narrow number of shows that are, you know, getting the majority of the listens over there. So our watches or whatever the hell it is.
And I think this is this is just a a sign of what I was saying earlier around that just the boatloads of charts and research that's coming out, and YouTube is at the top of the list every time. Thanks, Lou, for listening. People are gonna get this impression that videos, the cats meow. Right? And it's meowing loudly. Yeah. I think the challenge with the skip forward, Lucas, on those heavy ad loads is annoyance level. You know, because
yeah. I think it's the annoyance level. That's what's drove me away from some shows is the annoyance level The annoyance level of the ad load. Because I was trying to listen to some shows that I was just trying to get a feel for and I just couldn't handle it. It was like every it was just like it was like radio. Every 6 or 7 minutes, bam, there was another ad spot. And I thought, is this ever gonna end?
Yeah. And that's the that's that's the real tension in the medium right now is that increasingly creators are wanting that kind of a revenue model right out of the gate, Todd. I mean, so let's say you're creating a new show that is able to garner, you know, a 1000 downloads, which is still pretty low on the on the scale size. Right? And they're making a $100 every episode, you know, that's, that's what people want. Right? People want that. And so they're going to gravitate towards platforms
that give them that. And that's what Spreaker is catering to. My just it just makes me wonder, are people so conditioned now? Yeah. I I don't know. I just I'd love to hear some listener studies from podcasts that have that kind of load. Obviously, they've still got enough of those numbers. But I just wonder what type of a hit. I don't know. You know, I'm not sure how to quantify that either. Well, you know, it's that I saw it in my own stats years ago and knew that my limit on my show was 2.
Of course, those were 2 host endorsed ads. And I would hit 3 and then people were punching out. I actually lost. These are these are like 30:30 seconds, you know, like like a Geico ad or something like that or, or a pre produced ad like a radio ad. Yeah. I don't know. 10:10 in an hour. 10 in an hour show. Boy. Yeah. That that may be where we're at. You know, when with the expectation of creators now that they have to make money right away.
You know, we do we do find because of the the ability to turn on programmatic from the beginning. We've been you limited to 2 though. Don't you? Well, they can, yeah, 2. They can opt in for mid roll now, but still 2. And a matter of fact, we basically made the agreement. We we basically, it's not the podcaster's choice. We we told sounds, SoundStack to limit it. We we imposed the limit. We didn't. Yeah.
Maybe at some point, we'll let the podcaster send the signal on, but we basically set the limit with SoundStack as how many ads we wanted in shows. So 2 pre rolls, a one one mid, one pre and one Yeah. We can do 1 pre and 1 mid. So that was how we kinda structured it. And it wasn't it's not a setting. The podcaster can't dial it up, which, you know, they just it's we're limiting our own revenue, but we also understood it. Maybe I maybe I should let him just rock and
roll. Maybe I should let him run 10, you know. But I'm not happen. And I'm not chasing yeah. I don't know. That was a decision made. Like like like 4 or 5 or something like that. But the problem is is then you have to have a signal to let the podcaster be able to send the signal to SoundStack to say how many they want. We'd have to go back to them and say, you know, how how do we tell you
this? Don't they have to yeah. So don't they have to get in there and actually set an ad placement in the in the audio? They do if they want the mid roll. Mhmm. Yeah. And we've got that tool so they can do that. No problem. Yep. That's a gate limiter right there to some degree. Yeah. Yeah. To some some shows won't do it.
Yeah. So which which is okay. But for our folks that are running, DAI, they can easily switch between programmatic and DAI and their their markers are there and already built into the system. David in on YouTube says it takes time to make money. I've started to tell people interested in podcasting to try to get a partnership before launching if they can. But the problem is that's very few people. It's a little bit of a long shot. Yeah. Because who wants and we were approached every week.
I probably get 20 pitches by podcasters that say, hey. We want to to, to fund our, first 7 episodes or something to that effect. And why I we're not in the content, gambling game. So, no, we we we never do a partnership especially if it's it's okay. So when we do partnerships, it's with someone that's a good cause, someone that is doing something for you know, there's some reason and it's usually, I don't know what the word I wanna
use, philanthropic. It's basically where we don't you know, we basically say we give you a free account, give you some promotion because you're doing something for cancer awareness or something like that. So we don't advertise those, partnerships because we just do it because it's giving back. We don't expect and we don't make requirements that they have to announce that we're underwriting or anything like that. So I think that's the best way to do that because I don't need to
profit off this. You know, again, if you're doing cancer awareness or cancer raising money for I don't need to profit off someone's misery. So Yeah. It's just not a good way doing business. Lucas says what about premium content? And as we have Podimo, paid content like Netflix for podcast. There's premium here. People are doing premium content Subscription? With Apple with Apple Podcasts and they're at we Blueberry has a premium offering as well. Some people do it.
Not as many because it's a huge commitment. If you start a premium podcast and people paid for a year, you're committed to creating whatever content you have promised for a year. Yeah. Your flexibility is more limited, but it's the same thing if you get involved in, paid ads, paid post reads too. You commit to a schedule and you have to follow through on it. Where the the programmatic side comes in and it just runs ads when you produce content. There's no, like, strict schedule you have to stick
to based on the contract. Right. I've been sitting here pushing a button, Rob, to quit my, have my fan from going up and down. And I've been I've been stupid. I've been pushing the fan button, not the swing button. So I'm like, why is this stupid thing stopping moving? I need it. Yeah. That's why I've been looking up. I'm like, what's wrong with this thing? You know, I I and to me, at this point, it's a we've seen an uptick since the election in new customers coming in,
which is good. The but that I was shit. I was I started to freak out July, August, September. The numbers were pretty bad in the number of new shows. And now I'm I'm basically looking at, new shows that are coming into the platform and our core audience, our core customer audience is reengaging. So it's it's interesting. Our our core categories, people are now spending money. So that was that was reassuring. But, boy, starting in July, you basically running up the election the last 3 months.
You know, I look at the numbers. I'm like, holy crap. What's going on? Yeah. And I know you had something here in the in the commentary about the Total Podcast. Yeah. The active podcast Yeah. For the last, 30 days or so. Yeah. If we look at the last 30 days right now on podcast index, about 347,000 shows have updated. Mhmm. And we haven't been watching this number very close, but 3 day average is 114. 10 day average, 236. 30 day, 3 47. 60 day, 4 22.
The 60 day number is still probably down the most along with the 90 day number. Yeah. But Yeah. And it does look like in the chart that's off of the podcast business renewal.com website. If you want to go there and and look at the data. I think they got these from podcast index is what it looks like. But go ahead. Probably. Right. Right. Right. Is that it shows that there was a dip in active podcasts. Just was it just prior to. No, right around Thanksgiving. Yeah. I was around that. Yeah. I was
around, which makes sense. Right. Yeah. That would happen. But it's up ticking again. Back up. But it basically has been flatlined. What? Since, yeah, since November 5th. So right? Which is the day of the election. 5000 sat boots from Papa HD. Hi, Todd. Hi, Rob. Greetings from Montreal. The frontier between audio and video and podcasting is more and more blurred here too. Yeah. It's happening everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know how it sorts
out in the end, Todd. So if you wanted to if you want to wrap up the episode just from the standpoint of, you know, what's the what's the best go to kind of mental approach to this around what we're seeing happen and how do we as creators adjust to that? Do you Make make the right choice. Do you do what you wanna do? I agree with that. Do you? You know, you wanna do you wanna do video only? Knock yourself out. Right. And you just might do that. You know, and if you if you want to
yeah. I I think combo strategy is is great, for those that wanna do a combo strategy. But I I feel like I need I feel like I need to get over there and actually use the Spotify platform so I can be definitely deeper deeper knowledge about it. Well, yeah. Just keep in mind that, you know yeah. Go ahead and and and check it out. But again, I think the better idea is to create 2 shows over there, in my opinion. But, you know, what am I to know?
Well, my my audio side of the of the podcast that I am producing are in Spotify right now. It's just I don't have any video in there. Yeah. So what what I've been conflicted about is how do I proceed? Well, they make you they make you move to their platform to be able to do video on your show. You can move the audio or just move the video? You if you well, if you want to have one listing, you have to host everything over there.
Okay. I can't just upload the video and have a separate listing from Well, you could you could have a you could have a separate show. Absolutely. Okay. At least I think so. That's that would be the approach. My concern was is all the news came out about them taking the video and splitting out the video from the audio. Well, they do. Creating They do if you're if you if you're second version a second audio version of the show.
If you are a Spotify for podcaster podcaster and you're publishing audio and you have added video to that show On a direct load relationship with Spotify. Then they prior they take the video first and audio basically disappears. It's a video first strategy for them. I thought that they were splitting the audio from the video out and creating a separate audio experience. No. That they they disregard your audio.
Doesn't make any sense in Okay. So you have to have an you have to upload if you if you have a show over there and you're uploading audio and you wanna add video to that show No. But I'm already in there via my RSS feed through my hosting app. But you can't put video on your RSS feed. Yeah. That's not what I'm asking. What? I'm asking if I upload a video on a separate Spotify Oh, a separate Spotify account. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Right. If I upload video to them, will they generate a audio version of the show and host the video version of the show? That I don't know. That I don't know. Because I don't necessarily want to have 2 audio versions available in Spotify. That I don't know. But they they'll ignore the audio anyway if you put video up there. That's my understanding. Someone's on Spotify can tell us. So we're getting an email from somebody.
I just need to go over there and publish a couple of episodes and see how it works and see what the Yeah. Please name the shows that this is the stupidest shit ever or something like that. There we go. That's the approach right there. Yes. Create some episode trashing Spotify. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Which And and meanwhile, you know, we've we've got some other
things going on. We're trying to figure out what's going on with Spotify, and they're being very, very, very, very slow to respond to our support team. Very, very, very slow. What does that tell you, Todd? Exactly what I'm thinking. Okay. Yeah. That's the part that worries me about what's happening. So yeah. Yes. Indeed. And I'll leave it at that. So Yeah. Everyone, thanks for being here. Yes. We made it 90 minutes. And I'm, running about 3 hours of sleep.
We went through our, I one of our IB audit things last night. So that went well. We're right up against the line here. Maybe we've got one more audit for a redirect and some action items and and then fraud prevention stuff. So the the audit's a little more detailed than it has been in the past. So, yeah. We're we're gonna hopefully, we get underneath the deadline. Well, we wait. We're in process. So when it whenever it's announced, it's announced or whenever we get through.
So with with some loss of team members, we've been a little bit longer getting through this because I had to get a couple of devs educated on the platform. So, anyway, it is what it is. Okay. So, Rob, how they get hold of you? Well, I'm on all the social platforms, good or bad, depending on your your your viewpoint. I'm at, robgreenley.com. I I I have an x account at Rob Greenley. I'm I'm not yet on Blue Sky, and I'm not yet on the other, sides
social media social media platform either. So I'm I'm kinda sticking with x for now because I think it's the most, diverse platform, the biggest at scale. And so, anyway or you can get me on on YouTube. I have my own, channel over there at Rob Greenlee, and you can send me an email if you want to. [email protected]. We'd love to hear from you, get some feedback. And I'm feverishly working on the podcast hall of fame, which will be at,
Podfest coming up here in January. On January 17th, we're gonna have a a ceremony there to induct 11 new people, Todd. So I actually upped it 1, Todd. I saw the I saw the, I saw the slate. Yep. And it came the voting came up where I I needed to add one more in order to make it fair. So so that's what I've done. Yeah. Because you you had a tie. Right? I did a four way tie. Oh, a four way tie? In one of the categories was a four way tie. Yeah. Wow. So so I can just leave one of those
out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're yeah. That was smart to go to 11. Okay. Well, good. Tell us We're getting more more people in. I don't know what you thought about the the slate. I'm hoping to announce all the names here probably by Monday is the goal. What it was interesting. One of the names I said, who? Yeah. And and then I did a search. I'm like, oh oh, yeah. I know who that is. I just didn't know the name. I knew the show, but I didn't know the name. I was like, who who who the hell is that?
Yeah. I actually spoke to that person, earlier today, and they're gonna be there. Actually, it looks like, probably 10 out of the 11 will actually be there in person. Wow. Yeah. So I'm in the process of trying to get people to do the inductions. So, you know, you know, to get up and give that 2 minutes Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To you know, before they come up on stage. Well, if we can have I was shocked to see how many people were like, yeah.
I'll be there. So Yeah. If we can have a 10 of the 11 there, at least that's incredible. And it's possible that well, I think one of them is definitely not gonna be there. But the other, the other 10 are pretty much on board. So Oh, good. I knew you're having trouble getting a hold of we're being real cryptic here. I knew you're having trouble getting a hold of 1 of them, but is the one Yeah. And I got a hold of them today. And so is that individual thrilled?
Yeah. He's happy about it. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's happy about it. Everybody's happy about it. Yeah. Well well, it it looks like a good slate. There's a couple people I wasn't familiar with, but that's that's the nature of the game, which is actually good. I thought it was good too. I thought it was a really, really good slate of of of new inductees. And if I look at the the 5, on each category down from the ones that got selected Mhmm.
Those are all terrific candidates too. So next year, we may have those folks, get get more votes because they won't be on the those other ones Yeah. They won't be on the won't be on the stack. And and those are a terrific slate of folks, too. So hopefully, you know, that'll. So that'll be a good. Have been next week, Tuesday. Or when are you going to announce? Hopefully Monday. But it it might push out to Tuesday. It just depends on how things go. But,
but that's why I'm targeting is Monday. Okay. And the whole committee has seen the list, I'm assuming. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's I haven't put put it out to everyone yet, but I would say that most have have seen it at this point. Yeah. Alright. Awesome. Okay, everyone. [email protected]@geeknewsonx@[email protected]. And I'm sure you have comments about today's show. We'd love to hear from you.
And, of course, if you haven't followed or subscribed to the podcast yet, go over to newmediashow.com. And, we're at nms podcast on x if you wanna follow us on x. Rob takes care of the majority of the post on that. But, thanks for being here and looks like my audio, stayed connected the entire, episode. So that's good. Alright, bud. See you next time. Take care. Bye. Bye bye.