Exploring Neurotechnology with Nolan Beise "Measuring Changes in Brain Function Linked to Health"

Welcome back to Season 11 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast, where we connect the science-based evidence behind social and emotional learning and emotional intelligence training for improved well-being, achievement, productivity, and results using what I saw as the missing link, since we weren't taught this when we were growing up in school, the application of practical neuroscience.

I'm Andrea Samadi, an author and an educator with a passion for learning, and launched this podcast five years ago with the goal of bringing all the leading experts together in one place to help us to apply this research in our daily lives. Music. Today we meet with someone who's from my hometown, Toronto, Canada, but he's now in Victoria, British Columbia.

Our next guest, Nolan Weiss, is the CEO of Circle, a Canadian neurotechnology company pioneering brain-computer interfaces designed to understand the human mind by producing research-grade brainwave-sensing headbands and related software applications. applications. Before Circle, Nolan founded Suva Technology, a company specializing in mobile EEG research software. He also brings a wealth of experience from his time as a senior advisor at Mitacs.

In addition to these, Nolan holds a PhD in biochemistry from the University of Toronto and a Bachelor of Science degree in biochemistry from the University of Victoria. With his extensive background in both science and business, Nolan is dedicated in advancing neurotechnology and shaping the future of brain-computer interfaces.

When I see someone like Nolan dedicating his career to helping the world to improve brain performance using brain wave tracking technology that he's pioneered, I want to have a conversation with him. I have have some questions for Nolan that I hope will spark some innovation in our thinking as it relates to the future of health and wellness. Let's meet Nolan Bice and see what we can learn together about ways to improve our mind and brain health in the future.

Welcome, Nolan. Was I correct that you went to school at the University of Toronto, but now you're in British Columbia? Is that right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's bright and early there this morning. Thanks so much for meeting me. I know you're probably an early bird, just like me, getting up early. It varies on the day with kids, but yes, today I'm an early bird, certainly. So true, so true. Well, Nolan, I went to Teachers College in Toronto, University of Toronto, UTEP, back in the late 90s.

I remember all the dreams I had walking around the streets in Toronto of how I was going to change the world and education.

Education can you share where your mindset was when you were a student walking around those streets in toronto what was your vision for the world back then i think my it was more stating my curiosity than having a vision of where i wanted to take things i i've always been an extremely curious person i'm curious about anything i mean brain universe the fundamental understanding of consciousness and quantum reality everything you can think of i i think it's fascinating

fascinating and so walking around a city like Toronto was a really neat and new experience for me because where I came from in the north of Vancouver Island from a remote town that doesn't even exist anymore where it was literally just forests and bears and cougars and so to go to Toronto first of all for that population density was very interesting to me but then to be at Canada's you know number one academic institution was

fascinating and talking with people there and and getting into what they do and what their science was, it was brilliant. So it was all for me about curiosity and starting to say that. You said so much there. I wish we had a few weeks to talk as we could go into all those angles. I'm fascinated as well. And curiosity is a lot of why I do this podcast, to learn more about what innovative people are doing.

And I've said so many times on this podcast that our goal is to connect the most current brain research to our daily life, whether we're in our schools, our sports environments, or our workplaces. And back in the day when, you know, I was walking around and doing my teacher training, nobody ever asked me, what are you doing for your brain health? So when did you first start to look at the brain in our head and think it was important for us to know about?

Yeah, so I have been curious about the brain ever since I could be curious. And part of that reason was because I'm wired slightly differently from your average person. And so it was, as a young person, it was hard for me to figure out how to connect with people because I couldn't understand how that social interaction made sense from their perspective. perspective. And as I started to go to university from the very beginnings of it, I needed more sleep than most people.

So I would be in a study group, and I would stop in the middle of the study group in the library and lay down on the cement floor and go to sleep all the time. And even during my PhD, every single day, you would find me napping at my desk for a period of time. And there is not one time in all of my university years where I ever studied late into the night Because I wasn't wired that way. I needed a lot of sleep.

And the human body to me is one of the most interesting and complex collections of matter that exists in the universe that we know of. And so for me to be able to look at the brain, which is also a really interesting and most vastly unknown part of it compared to the rest of us, was just really compelling. And so I've been interested in the brain since I could be curious.

Yes this is fascinating so you gotta you gotta go into what is it that you've invented and how does it work what are we going to learn from you here oh sure yeah so i've invented a headset, and it measures your brain waves so this headset it just you know pops on your head like this, and you play a game for a few minutes and and what the headset does is it walks you through a visual stimulus task so when you woke up this morning you put

on your shirt and your brain immediately said, I don't care about your shirt. It's not going to, you know, all of a sudden strangle you. So I'm going to stop paying attention to that sensory information of you wearing a shirt. But if something new happens in your environment, that information has to go from your environment through your eyes, if it's visual, to your visual cortex to understand, well, what was that? And does it matter for my continued survival?

And so what we've done is we've built technology that both stimulates your brain in that way. So it provides a common stimulus. So what does your your brain not care about? And then it provides something new that your brain has to think about. And we record that new response. And what happens is your brain cells fire all at once and synchronously say, what was that thing that we saw?

Does it matter to us? And then we measure how much of your brain processes that information and how fast that occurs. And those two data points directly relate to your cognitive function and how it's changing over time.

And they are one of the most researched ways that neuroscientists know to track cognitive performance and health over time so it's been around for over 50 years that research paradigm interesting so who would be interested in this i could guess that people in the sports world would want to know how their brain is performing you know how who's interested in this and how would it help us.

Yeah, that's a wonderful question. And if you have a better answer to that, come join my company because it's the one we're answering right now. Okay. So essentially, people who are interested in it fall across the entire spectrum of brain health and performance.

So all the way from you're getting dementia, you've had a traumatic brain incident, you're trying to manage losing your brain or recovering to very peak performance and flow state, like like the very top people with Olympic athletes, with pro professional athletes, even with astronauts, and how can we really push the ability of the human brain to go to the very capacity of our biology?

And what we're finding as we're talking to more people in the market is the people that are the most interested are the people that do not take their brain for granted because it's not working in some way, shape or form.

And one of the ways that makes sense is with dementia so if you have parents or family or friends who have had dementia there is a period of time where you stop taking your brain for granted because you realize that if you don't think about how your brain is changing now you might end up in a similar place and the issue with dementia is it starts to occur in your brain up to 20 years before you get the disease which means that if

we can track it a decade or more before you start to get to the disease functionally, then we can start to make lifestyle changes and therapies and tactics to actually help you right now. And so where we are starting primarily is with first responders. We do sell directly to the public, but the first responders see things every single day that are challenging for them to process.

They are hyper fatigued, they are hyper vigilant, and they are constantly teetering on the brink of being able to function normally. I've measured their brains and there's some very interesting things we're finding, and because they do not take their brains for granted, because they are constantly battling with the ability to understand reality from what they saw, these are the people that we want to help initially. Interesting that you say this, because now I'm thinking in a different way.

My husband does volunteer work with the sheriff's office, and I went out with him and shadowed him and got to see what the other side of the world is, what they see. And within a 12-hour span of a day, I saw things that I couldn't comprehend.

Comprehend and the first time i did this i had to take a break and go off into the into the mountains to breathe because it was too much to comprehend so when you're saying this that that's your target market i know that people have you know lost their jobs because they something has happened that they just are now in have to work in the office they can't go back into the field so this is phenomenal that you're targeted like this so

how would how would that help somebody let's let's just say somebody that's been overwhelmed, how would the headset help them now? Yeah, that's a brilliant and big question. So there's a few ways. The way we start is we understand where everybody is at in aggregate. So we look at policy level changes. So we anonymize the data and we say, if you look at everybody that's in a first responder station, say a fire hall, for instance, or a police department, how are they doing over time?

How are they responding to their shift work? how are they responding to the different calls they get, and are we seeing changes where people are running at a constant deficit, and so they're, you know, likely of having a brain issue, both in terms of presenteeism, where they're not able to be functional with their job, or they cannot literally respond to stimuli.

One of the things that I've measured, which was surprising to me, is that people with PTSD and subclinical PTSD don't process as much information that they see. So what happens is if you have a healthy brain and you see something that matters to you, you have an associated neural response. If you have a compromised brain and you're hyper-fatigued or you have PTSD or you're nearing dementia, most of that information you don't process appropriately.

So you might only actually process 25% of what you're seeing that matters to you. But you don't feel that because you can only think about what you can see. And so what happens is you walk around the world feeling like you're seeing the world when you're only actually responding to 25% of it in this case.

And so what we do is we work on the policy side to figure out how are people changing and how can we make the rules better how can we change the way fire halls work how can we change shift patterns, and then most importantly how can we get ahead of issues that might be happening so if you have.

A firefighter let's say who's they do they do rotations between different fire halls depending on what country you're in they go to a different fire hall who has that has a much larger call volume, and they see much more challenging things to deal with. And I literally had this conversation this week. How fast does their brain go down? And can we start to manage their brain performance and health before it hits the bottom?

And so the whole point of this is to see those changes before they relate to some sort of brain challenge that is much harder to deal with and may cause irreversible trauma so this is great because how it was described to me from this person that you know just got overwhelmed and and and just had to take a step back was that it's like a a garbage can is getting full up every time they see something that's troubling it fills up fills up fills

up over time and so you're saying that you can intervene with strategies before it fills up and that person breaks down completely and yeah exactly well so the other side of it is is that.

As the garbage can fills up as you say there's all these other associated health issues, that start to occur they become hyper vigilant they don't sleep as well and then ultimately one of the hallmarks of really poor brain performance is you can't sleep and so you can't process information you can't reset after the day's stimulus and so you just you're constantly running at a deficit that just keeps going down and down.

The other side of this which I'm very interested to look into is when we are working with clinicians and mental health professionals and people that support these people is validating what treatment works for each person individually. So for this person what they saw you know maybe treatment A, B and C might work but for another person maybe it's a different treatment regimen and we will certainly see commonalities across cross what works for one person versus the next.

But we need to personalize it because everybody has a different brain. Everybody is in a different mental state. And we need to find what's their optimal path back to a healthy version of them. And then to quantify, when are they back there? When are they okay to step back into the fray? When are they going to have some mental resilience to be able to do their job effectively and not be a liability to who they're doing their job with or the types of people that they're working with?

Well, I became very interested in Alzheimer's prevention strategies about the time the pandemic happened. I started, you know, really thinking about taking care of my brain. And then I even took my husband and I, we went to Dr. Daniel Amen's clinics. We got our brain scanned just to see, because I heard this, that you could detect Alzheimer's years ahead of time. So we went and looked to see where our brains were.

And my husband's been doing volunteer firefighting for years and police work for years. So I was just curious of the fume damage, what would show up. And so it was just interesting, but it was expensive and healthcare didn't cover it. So, you know, just thinking about your headset as an alternative for people that don't have a couple thousand dollars, you know, you've made it pretty affordable for a second option for somebody like, like, you know, that was curious to look at it.

So, you know, could you maybe talk about how an individual could just go to your website and purchase one and... Yeah, sure. So the whole point of our technology is that working with the more expensive technologies to measure your brain and track your performance and health and how that is at that moment that you took the test, because they're so expensive, you don't do the test very often. And so you get a snapshot in time.

That snapshot in time is useful, certainly, and it can help you understand your brain.

But what is more useful is taking repeated measurements over time to see how you're changing for both good and for bad because what you'll find is that as you're looking to figure out how to you know better live your life and be a healthier version of you and add your brain into that understanding there's different things that change fairly regularly so you'll have your your general fatigue levels right as you are busy what you'll find one of the things i found about myself is that if

i start the day or the week on monday with say 80 brain health my i'm good i'm feeling feeling pretty good. I had a restful weekend and I work every single day, but sleep perfectly every single night. By Friday, I start the day without as much. I start the day with 40% just because I'm tired from working.

It's working is a tiring thing. We're sitting in front of a computer, in my case, unfortunately, and we're just thinking and talking and meeting people and having these really engaging conversations. And our brains can't sustain that. And every day that we do that, it tires us out. And people think, well, I'm sleeping fine, so I should be fine. But we don't. And so you have to find time to regenerate your brain.

And so on the short side of measuring your brain, you have to start to track things like fatigue before it can accumulate to be chronic. Because as your fatigue accumulates in your brain, it directly correlates with a depression in your immune system. And so as you get more and more tired, and as you feel more and more tired, your immune system is paralleling that.

It's doing the exact same thing in your body. and as your immune system draws your your predisposition for every single major disease goes up including cancer anything to do with your brain heart disease etc and so this is this is a brain measurement but it matters for your body as well of course and so you can measure on the short-term fatigue you can measure on the long-term chronic fatigue burnout and then you can measure or on the even longer term,

changes that might relate to early onset of dementia. And if you can catch those early enough, up to 40% of dementia is estimated to be able to be avoided. And right now, dementia is a half a trillion dollar problem in the United States. And the caregivers that are giving unpaid informal care, they put in, I think, roughly about 18.6 billion hours of time caring for people that need help because they cannot care for themselves.

So the problem is, it's massive and we have to start figuring out how our brains are changing so we can figure out how we can keep them from changing and degrading. So the whole point of this is, while I do think that the one-off measurements are very valuable, I think we have to change the paradigm a little bit and measure people more regularly so we can figure out what's happening now and then what helps you, what's working for you.

Yeah, I definitely thought about that when I did the brain scan, that this is a snapshot in time. This is measuring where we are now.

And then we went and did all these things to improve. But now we've got to go back to the brain scan and do it again. And that's not going to happen for everybody. So I love your vision here, what you've created. And so I did see that you're founded pretty recently, like 2021, you founded and you've got a team of neuroscientists, mathematicians, engineers, designers. Can you just tell me about who is your team and what award did you recently win for this?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, building a company like this, you sort of need to have expertise across a wide range of area. So you need people that understand how to measure the electrical activity of your brain. So we have electrophysiologists, we have neuroscientists, we have digital signal processing people. We need people who understand how circuitry can understand one millionth of a volt changes at your scalp. And so we have people that are brilliant at that.

I mean, they even work with SpaceX. sex like they do really cool stuff and we have people that you know understand how software works and my co-founder paul is brilliant at that so anything in terms of figuring out how we can get from here to here what's the most efficient way to do that he's he's absolutely brilliant and so we have a team of about 12 people and over the years we've really found who is exceptional and one thing

that i realized is that good people are not good enough when you're building a company like this. If you're going to build something that's really going to be effective at measuring people's brain, you have to have exceptional people. And so we've iterated a fair bit to get here. But as it stands now, I have an absolutely wonderful team. They are so impressive. They're such nice people. They're so fun to work with.

I uplift my day every single day just to talk to them. And I feel very, very thankful that they're willing to work with me on this. The award that we won was one of my friends who's a CEO of herself and runs another company. She just randomly put us in for this award. And then I found out, no, I mean, you're getting an award, Nolan. So I was like, great. That sounds like fun. Let's do it. And so what the award is, is just looking at companies that are up and comers in the region.

So in our region, who's doing something that's interesting and new, and that might be the next big thing. And so we just got recognition for that, which was brilliant. And even when I went up on the award stage to do the test, I actually put my headset on. So they had like a headset, check it out, everybody. And that resulted in a whole bunch of interesting conversations.

Definitely. Well, this is forward thinking and I love it because it kind of takes my thought process of where we were with the brain scan to what's next. What else can we do? Where else can our minds go? So this is stretching me for sure. And I've got to ask, I know you're creative and curious, but where did this why come from to do this? There's got to be something that caught your attention, that keeps you going. What is it that's driving you behind this?

Yeah, it's interesting because that question evolves over time or the answer evolves over time. So the initial why was I'm fascinated of brains and I convinced that we need to understand how our brain and our body relate better. I have dementia in my family and so I have a very personal why. Both of my grandparents and my mom died from dementia. You know, and I'm worried that those things are going to happen to my parents and potentially even to me.

And in fact, one of the things that I'm worried about myself is that I measure my brain performance all the time because I have the technology right next to my desk. And I've been really busy for the last while. And my brain performance has dropped to a quarter of what it should be. And it did that for three months. And I got really nervous because I was worried that I'm pushing too hard. I'm too stressed. I'm too burnt out.

And so for three months, I tried to get my brain performance back up and it took me three months just to turn that around. And the really interesting thing with people's brains, which is both, you know, an amazing adaptation, but also terrible, which is your normal adapts to where you are over time. So from week to week, you might be more and more tired.

You might have chronic fatigue, you might have burnout, but you overall will reset to whatever that normal feels like, even on the brilliant side. And so what happens is if I say, you know, how are you, how are you doing? How do you feel? Most people, even if they have PTSD, say pretty good. Yeah, I feel good. I've measured people who have hypervigilant PTSD and they say, I ask, how do you feel? Oh, I'm pretty good.

And then you start to ask them questions about, well, how are you actually doing? Well, I have night terrors and I scream most nights and I, I punch holes in walls and I can't sleep. And, you know, I find that I'm triggered constantly. It's like, well, that's, that's not pretty good, but we have, we have to live in our normal.

And so we pull the normal along with us and so in terms of the why the more people that i measure that i see like that the more the why gets broader and i start to see that we this is a critical thing that we have to solve right now like this is it's it passed time that that you know humans need to figure this out and so i'm very excited to start to look at that at scale and want to do it for everybody across the entire world. Well, what are you hearing from people who are using your device?

Like, what are they saying that's kind of pushing you forward for this mission that I just love? What are you hearing from them? Yeah, so our device is pretty unique. The only really way you can do a test like ours is you have to go to a neuroscience research lab. And they'll put a big gel cap on your head. It'll take an hour to get set up. And it'll measure about the same thing. So the thing that most people think when they use their headset is it is fascinating. And they are terrified by it.

And so when I demo the product for people, what I do is I get them to go through a quick breathing exercise just to sort of calm down. Because people get worried about what their brain is going to see. Because even though they feel normal, they know they're not doing that great for the most part. And so what people do is I measure their brain and then I tell them what it means. And the app tells them as well.

And then immediately they start yawning. because the vast majority like i think only three people i've measured in a number of years, were not hyper fatigued like really low like surgeon looks i shouldn't say that surgeons are the lowest brain performance around because they are so tired and they know it and we need to change policy around that's a whole other conversation i have some certain friends of mine who are just brilliant amazing people and i would really like to help them as

well so what i find is that But immediately when you show people where they're at, they acknowledge where they're at and get really compelled to need to want to change it right away.

And it's interesting because yesterday we had an emergency in our house where the plumbing blew up. And so the plumber came over. I'd never met him before. And sure enough, he asked me what I did. And so I measured his brain. Of course I measured his brain. I'm always in like, please use the technology, see what you think.

And he was one of the three people that i have measured in the years that i've been doing this that had a really healthy brain and and i was surprised because i it's not often i measure somebody who has a really healthy brain and what i found with him is that the reason why he has a healthy brain is because he had a traumatic brain injury from a car accident he already got hit so hard his shoes fell off and he had scars on his head and he doesn't take his brain

for granted because he takes brain medication every single day to control epileptic seizures. And this is the issue is we're all taking our brain for granted. And so sort of back to circuitous route to your question is what people find is they face themselves for the first time and then they get motivated to want to do it. And the really hard part with the technology is how do we affect real change without giving people an answer that they don't really want to to hear.

Because the truth is, is that most of us are not doing that great. And and I don't want to be the bearer of bad tidings. But most of us take our brain for granted. And we're seeing the effects later on in life or even now. Yeah, I absolutely agree. When we did our brain scan, it was eye-opening. I came up as sleep-deprived, and then that led me to further go into interviews on sleep and look at that. And then I interviewed somebody that was working with pro athletes in sleep

that I'd love to introduce you to because he was focused on first responders for sleep. sleep. He was asking me, who do I know? So I'd love you to just meet with him. It's Dr. Shane Creato from Amen Clinics, but that's his focus is sleep and first responders. So I just want you to know of each other. But yeah, the first thing was, oh my goodness, what have I done?

And how can I fix this moving forward? I think that's what came up when you said, face yourself for the first time that's what we both said but it was scary you know what and and the thing is is that because life is so busy we only solve the problems that we need to solve that we feel the pain for right now, and if you're fatigued for most people it's not a pressing enough problem to need to solve it, and this is why the first responders make sense versus going immediately to

the general population is there are people out there that are recovering from brain injuries or brain trauma or sickness that have a pressing problem, but the first responders, every single call they go on, they have a pressing problem. Most days they do their job, they are dealing with a pressing problem and that is causing a pressing problem happening in their brain as a result.

And so I think that's where we start, but I really do want to eventually get to everybody and to help, not to sort of simplify it, but to be essentially Fitbit for your brain. So you just track your brain and you have a constant understanding of how it's changing over time. And then there's these interesting helpful things that help you sort of keep yourself on track.

Because you know we live in a world where you know electrified dead world where we can just turn on light whenever we want we can look at screens whenever we want they're hugely compelling, and so we don't sleep enough you know and if you go back to before electricity and the technological revolution the sun would have gone down and we would have gone to sleep because you can't see anything and so we would have gotten way

more asleep and and it's just it's interesting how our biology is really getting pushed to its capacity in terms of having to manage sleep deprivation that's chronic for most of our life. So I think bringing that as a highlight, along with the other things that can happen with your brain as a result of it, will help humans to be healthier overall and in the rear brain, of course.

So that's kind of like your vision for the next five to ten years is to start with first responders and then eventually we all have access to this just like we use, we measure with a Fitbit or a Whoop or Aura Ring, whatever we're using. So would that be your vision? Yes, exactly. Exactly right. I want to bring this to everybody because I think everybody needs help and the world needs a better understanding of how brains work and don't.

And you know certainly we can work with clinicians and doctors which we do we work with medical clinics and some good friends of mine who are medical doctors but even that is limiting as well right i want people on a you know week-to-week day-to-day if they want measurement understand how they're changing like for me i measure my sleep religiously and i every day i look at it and think okay i could have done better what you know

how would my heart rate change when i slept when do I eat? When does it matter? Because sleep really matters to me. Now I can also do that for my brain, which is really helpful. And so I think at some point the technology will be at a place where it will make sense for the broader consumer market. It works now if you just want a measurement tool. But the next question people ask, which is what you asked back when you went to Dr. Amon's clinic is, well, what do I do next? What do I do about this?

And that's a huge question that has It has a lot of nuance to it. That's going to take a long time to answer for Andrew's brain versus Nolan's brain versus everybody else. But it's a start. Definitely. This has been eye-opening, Nolan. What about some stumbling blocks? What kinds of things, other than cost? That's the biggest thing I saw with Amen Clinics is looking at this. It's costly.

We can't all go there. What are some stumbling blocks that you see that are going to hit you before we can all just sit here and tap into maybe on our phone and say, how's my brain doing today?

Yeah, well, I guess there's a few ways to look at that. On the company side, we're at a stage now where we're happy to tell the world that we exist. And so being on the very west coast of North America, the very west coast of Canada, on the west coast of an island off of the coast of Canada, we're very remote.

Like my backyard is is is forests and bears and cougars and i i live right close to the water here on the west coast where i free dive in spearfish so that's sort of my like my resetting fun. So we are geographically very removed from everywhere else and from the big city center where lots of things are happening. So from the company perspective, one of the issues that we face is just letting the world that we exist.

And so that's why I'm thankful to talk to you about, hey, we're doing this thing. You should check us out just to start conversations to help us bring the value to the rest of the world. The other side is that the technology right now is leveraging the very leading edge of neuroscience, which sounds like such a cool statement, but really it's very simple.

Essentially it uses a two-dimensional screen, which is not how our brains are built to understand reality, to just give you different visual stimulus. And you and I, and most people at this point, are used to looking at two-dimensional screens, but that is not how our brains are built to perceive reality.

And so what I want to do with our technology is be able to measure the stimulus that is happening in your environment in any form, qualify whether or not your brain responded to that stimulus and then qualify the health of that response in terms of how your brain is actually doing in a way that is passive for you.

So as you walk around, you talk to people, you think about things, you open doors, et cetera, et cetera, the headset will eventually be quantifying how your environment is stimulating your brain and how healthy your brain is as a result of it. And if we do that with your actual environment versus a two-dimensional screen, it will be a complete paradigm shift in terms of how neuroscientists can understand your brain with nuance.

And so So ultimately, we want to springboard quite aggressively off of the leading edge of neuroscience to get to there and change how neuroscience is done, both for the consumer world and across the world. This is eye-opening, Nolan. Have I missed anything in my questions for you? As we think about bringing this into a close, what would you like the world to know other than that you exist and that you're pioneering this innovative technology that's the one day we're going to all have access to?

What have I missed? You haven't missed anything. It's great. I'm just wanting to tell the world that we exist. I'm happy to talk to anybody about what we're doing from any perspective. I have heard all of the possibilities about where we can take this technology. I have certainly looked at pro sports. I have looked at all the different iterations you can take. But I'm happy to hear them again from different perspectives.

So if people want to reach out and talk to me about what they think about this or that, I love talking about this. It's my passion. And if I can help another person, that would be wonderful. So just letting the world know is brilliant. Thank you. Awesome. Well, Nolan, I want to thank you for taking the time to meet with me today.

And who knows we could have walked past each other back in in the day in Toronto you never know I've always got my eyes wide open to learn more about what's innovative in the world and I will connect you with Dr. Shane Corrieto I think that's a powerful connection because he's he's focused here with sleep I think he could learn from you for sure and I do look forward to when this technology is available because I measure everything I measure

sleep I measure my heart heart rate when I'm podcasting, everything. So I can't wait till I add this. How's my brain doing on a daily basis? So for people who want to learn more about you, please tell me your website. So our website is circle without the E brain.com. So C I R C L brain.com. Awesome. Thanks so much for your time today. This has been fascinating. Great to talk to you, Andrea. Some final thoughts. I learned so much from speaking with Nolan Bice today.

He emphasized that while people can go to his website and purchase a headset, that wasn't his main motivation for meeting us. His goal was just to let the world know about his vision and let others know about him. I did connect him to Dr. Shane Creato, and I think that when two powerful minds come together, they form a third mind with potential to take creativity and innovation to greater heights.

If you want to connect with Nolan, you can visit the Contact Us page of his website, and I put the link in the show notes. Most importantly today, I hope we've all got a renewed vision for the importance of our brain health, and I'll see you next week. If you're enjoying the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast, please don't forget to subscribe so you'll stay up to date with our new episodes.

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