Surfing Waves of Emotion Through Emotional Regulation

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She currently works in the Phillipsburg School District and teaches in the OT Master's program at Moravian University. Tracy is neurodivergent herself and a passionate advocate for disability rights. Her work is all about helping people of all ages and neurotypes build the tools they need to thrive. Tracy, thanks so much for talking to me today.

It makes the whole process of emotional regulation feel less clinical and more like a skill you can practice and get better at, like learning to ride actual waves. So can you share a little bit about how you decided to use that analogy and why you feel like it resonates so well, especially for neurodivergent kids?

So it just kind of has always been there as card part of my clinical practice and this analogy. I just really clung to it as well. And over the years it has morphed and matured and just really became part of a way to look at this idea of unpleasant feelings and how we can v like you said, visualize them and

And look at that, there's a natural flow to ocean waves and there's a natural flow to emotions and to body feelings and that that's part of being alive and being human and being part of the earth. It's just w i things get big and things are small and You know, I like that it normalizes things.

Waves are temporary. They come and they go. And I think that for a lot of people, neurodivergent or not, regardless of their age, when you have those big emotions. They feel like they're going to last forever. And it feels really hard to get out of that. How do you approach this?

idea of the range of emotions and the intensity of the emotions, using this analogy of the of the waves, but also just kind of normalizing that experience and recognizing that even though it feels hard now, you're going to get through it.

I would never say that to a kid necessarily or to a person who's struggling. W when you're bringing it to them and then they get in that moment. It's there's a lot less of that bad tapes that would be playing in your head of I I can't feel big and I can't have these big feelings and I should hide this and I should be ashamed. It's a lot easier for them to trust me.

or, you know, a teacher or a parent who's saying, it's okay, we all feel big. And I always throw in my own personal examples of how I had big intense feelings and have how this will pass. Um, just like we don't always feel as good as we felt at the birthday party, it's the same thing there.

in my body or in my brain and being labeled so negatively for having such intense feelings um was a pr really big part of why it mattered to me is that the connotation it it's a subconscious message you're sending and it matters.

to instead framing them as signs of dysregulation. And when Amanda and I wrote our most recent book, Neurodiversity Affirming Schools, one of the things we really focused on was the fact that the language that we use as educators, as parents, as clinicians, whatever that might be, influences how we approach. Somebody who we're trying to help. How we how we react and how we

think about the types of solutions that they need. And so when we think about this shift from maladaptive behaviors to dysregulation, it might seem like it's a small change on the surface. But it really reflects a deeper shift in how we think about behavior, especially from that neurodiversity affirming lens. So when we label something as maladaptive,

We're putting the focus on the behavior being wrong or broken, something that needs to be fixed or eliminated. But when we look at it as dysregulation, that really shifts us to looking at someone who's overwhelmed or their nervous system is really struggling. Why do you see that language shift as important and how do you see it as changing the way that adults approach behavior when they start looking through that lens of dysregulation instead of maladaptive behavior or dysfunction?

So I hear this word all the time. And as an OT, the word adaptive and ad adaptative and all of that is extremely important to what we do as professionals. And If you're n if you're looking at something as maladaptive, which If you if you do any research on what are maladaptive behaviors, they're listing things like stimming and echolalia and excessive crying and not looking at social norms and disregarding that.

If you say that it's not adaptive, it's not helping you to adjust to your circumstance and meet your goals, you're not honoring that lived experience of that individual who's dysregulated because Okay. Yeah we there's a lot of flooding in New Jersey and New York yesterday and um we were in the car and we came up right to the edge of the flooding and I was losing my mind. I was screaming at That was a dysregulated response, but it was adaptive in the situation because

Guess what? I it made sure that we weren't gonna go any further into that dangerous situation. And I think the same thing can be said for kids. If they're shutting down and doing work avoidance or running away or eloping. Those are signs of dysregulation that are sometimes protective. This work is too hard. I'm gonna refuse to do it. I'm not getting my needs met. I'm gonna scream at you because you need to hear that this is not working for me. So I think if we shift to dysregulation.

It's more honoring of the experience that's happening within the nervous system and who the child is.

It reminds me of when we talk about that double empathy problem where we're not always looking at something. And so we're telling kids, Well, you need to be more flexible, you need to adapt, you know, differently in this situation.

Um, and we're insisting that they kind of see it from our perspective without also giving them the grace and and taking the opportunity to look at it from their perspective. Why are they so dysregulated? Why is their nervous system so um alert to where they're unable to Whatever the task might be or whatever the situation might be. Right.

whether that's due to the constant masking or sentry overload or discipline issues where they're getting in trouble all of the time, they just feel misunderstood day after day. And I also know that calling it trauma can be tricky for some people. Like I've had conversations where people really push back, feeling like using the word trauma in this context minimizes what they consider more serious forms of trauma like abuse or neglect. But I just really feel like the reality is

Trauma is is about how those experiences impact the nervous system over time. And for neurodivergent kids, school really is a place where that nervous system stress compounds every day. So when you use the term school induced trauma, what are you really describing and how do you see that showing up in the students that you work with, whether that's emotionally or behaviorally?

Intense traumas, but like you said, you're looking at a neurodiverse population, or I am. All of the students that I'm working with and advocating for. have some level of neurodiversity and they're more at risk for trauma and their nervous systems are more sensitive. And so yes, it is enough to say that when they're in this situation, it can create a trauma. Now I'm also in the situation of having been in schools that used seclusion rooms. I have seen

uh abusive behaviors. I have seen it go unpunished. Um so for me it's a very emotional and sensitive issue because I've seen people that have been perpetrators of um what I would consider traumatic, abusive situations with children be promoted and advanced and have face no consequences. So for me, this is a very highly emotionally charged.

issue because I'm seeing kids disproportionately of black black and brown children being facing these circumstances where m maybe they're restrained more, maybe they're secluded more, or maybe they're just harassed and intimidated or um embarrassed and shamed more. And um it just is something that really does not sit well with me. There's a lot of pupil intimidation, there's a lot of um sarcasm and there's It it's it's having devastating consequences on children.

they're doing this to themselves or they're just being disrespectful. It's so much bigger than that. And so that struggle to get them to see the nervous system component in a lot of these behaviors is um can be very fresh.

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I used to understand it kind of as one way and then I was talking to somebody and they were using it in a different context and I I had to really kind of reflect on that. So like for example you can think about language and communication where bottom up processing usually means that someone is building directly from the words that you're saying and they're not reading between the lines or picking up on the implied meaning or social cues.

Um, but it can also mean processing more in relation to emotional regulation, especially through a sensory lens, which is how you use those terms. Top-down processing and bottom-up processing. Can you break that down when you talk about a student reacting from a bottom-up state versus a top-down state? What is actually happening for them in those moments?

processing and the cognitive reaction, which would be more that top down. So for O Ts we're often looking at it as in terms of our treatments or what we're doing. Is it a top down treatment approach where we're asking them to think about their h behaviors and their the consequences of their behaviors, or are we just giving them stimulation and um sensory input to help change their reaction.

Um, so that's really where it comes from. And a lot of what OTs do by nature is try to blend the two. And and I think that that's what I'm really trying to do with this program is show the benefits of blending the two, knowing when to jump from one to the other. with whom to jump from one to the other.

Um, I really started as a sensory integration trained therapist and then over time saw, wait a second, so there are so many children that I am seeing that I can hit them with all the supposedly calming sensory strategies. But if I start talking about their special interest, that is really what's regulating them. And so it was really seeing the power of

cognitive skills to help regulate sensory systems, which was kind of not really something being done in the sensory OT world. And that's where I kind of made that shift to understand the importance of both the uh brain tools and the body tools.

particular nervous system, their personality, and their reactions to. So for for me in the clinic or in the school with a student, you know, I might just have to try a bunch of different things before I say, okay, none of this works. What we have to do

Okay, so maybe the sensory tools aren't working, but I'm finding that if we keep novelty and that we give them something new every 15 minutes, that's way more regulating for them because it's keeping their interest up or it's changing their focus. And a lot of this you know, maybe it will come down to distraction. So if you're looking at anxiety and fear,

i you know, you're still technically using a cognitive process if you're using distraction, but it does have a greater impact maybe for a specific kid. Whereas, um You know, I I've had kids that I've worked a lot with selective mutism where we w if I talk about what they're feeling, that that is in no way gonna help. But if I put some hip hop music on and put'em on a swing,

it tends to lower their anxiety level, takes the focus off of talking, and before you know it, they're feeling a little bit better. That does it that's oversimplifying a a complex uh Issue to treat, but that's just kind of saying where I'd be going with the nervous system is what's gonna make you look and feel more regulated and comfortable.

um areas that you're struggling with or that make you uncomfortable. So it's it's walking any individual through self-awareness first. And I've done it from, you know, kindergarten level up through high school where it's

Okay, let's talk about how you feel and get a better understanding for you of what you're experiencing emotionally and physically in your body and in your brain. And that once you start to practice, just like any other skill Again, going back to my OT roots, it's about repetition, revisiting the concepts, repeating it, practicing it.

And making the activities, you know, so maybe I would do an obstacle course and and in there I'm talking about doesn't this feel good on my my muscles? I feel them pulling and I love the way pulling feels on my muscles. which I really do, and you know, showing them, oh, I when I feel stressed out, I really like to press on my arms and and just popping those topics of conversation and those teachable moments.

but about teaching them about themselves and ha what do you like? Does that feel good you looks like it feels good'cause you're smiling and you're laughing and that seems like that's something you should remember that. Remember that you like to roll around and on the floor. you know, when you're feeling a lot of energy and that and that might make help you feel better. And so moving up to self-regulation.

From co-regulation, it's a process that I think isn't very black and white. It's not like, okay, now you've made it. It's like learning to swim.

So that's why they cry a lot when they're three, because they're not so great at this self-regulation thing, because it's an acquired skill. It's not something we're born with.

It's fascinating to me, like how how that can be such a great cognitive tool. I do think you can strip some of it down to that distraction again.

But but think about it, it what we've we read children to sleep. You know, that that is something we do that's regulating and gets kids to calm down. So if you don't have a book It would make sense that if you told a story, unless it was a a really wild and scary story and depending on your inflection and you can use your tone of voice, but it would make sense that the storytelling would help regulate in the same

turn, I have seen kids just come in and just show me. It's beautiful how much of this I've learned through kids. We uh you know, I had a I wanna say first grader last year who would just come in and say, This is the story. You know, he would just start making up these beautiful

creative stories in in that process was regulating himself versus me saying, oh, well, we're gonna do this contrived activity where I go on the swing and we, you know, look for secret treasures. You're already taking me on these journeys. So it's really been honoring some of the brilliant brains that I've had the pleasure to work with and say, okay, so the special interest is it's something you are gravitating towards and you want to share with me. So how do we use that?

Now there are times that that can be dysregulating as well. A lot of these tools, video games. But uh, you know, I'm also the parent of an autistic adult. So some of this was learned through parenting, through, okay, well, we can say that screen time is bad. And it was when we had to come off of it.

But it was also the thing that got him through some really terrible heartbreaks and some difficult moments with peers is because that is the special interest. That was the calming tool. It's still the soothing activity and the calming activity. And so it's learning to to honor what each different nervous system is really needing.

And what is happening mentally in your head and the environment, like kind of just bringing all those things together in this current moment. But a lot of those go-to tools that we hear about, like deep breathing or guided imagery, really just don't work for a lot of neurodivergent kids. Like I've had kids who were really comfortable with some parts of that, but

they would not close their eyes during an activity that felt really uncomfortable for them. Um, or it was very difficult for them to sit completely still. And then sometimes they would be in the classroom and then because they weren't doing those things, that would be interpreted as they're not being compliant, which I kind of roll my eyes a little bit. But recognizing that for some kids some of these things might actually increase their dysregulation.

Are there some adaptations or alternatives that you've found that work better for those kids?

We don't have to call it yoga and we don't have to call it mindfulness because especially my teenagers, they're done with it. They've heard it so much and you know um being told it'll calm you down and you'll feel better. And it doesn't work. These are these are hard skills for adults. So if you, you know, have a teenager in distress, you say, do this mindful activity, you'll feel better, they're like, no, it didn't work. Because it doesn't work right away a lot of this stuff.

And so they're they're again skills that can be beneficial. So for yoga and for mindfulness that's involving the body in movement, I'll call it stretching and I'll call it just moving the body. I just take those terms right out of it. Um and that's an easy adaptation to the resistance. Right. So and if you can't keep your body still

I've done mindfulness activities and um yoga with kids that are just completely moving around. And my goal is just to get them to be there in the moment, in some way, just for a second or two. That's where I would start out. Um, I really like go noodles bring it down. They have a a video with a a balloon. And if you could just get that a kid to they don't have to stand still, but to look at that balloon and notice that it's changing colors, that's a very basic.

you know, that mindfulness of less just look at, hey, can you tell me three different things you see in this room? Okay, you know, hold this rock. Is it cold or is it hot? Boom. You know, start getting them to tune in to their environment. in smaller steps and and acknowledge that that too is mindfulness. And that's the building blocks. If you can just say, Okay, well I hear this and I see that, that's that's

the foundational um pieces that you can put into place to start getting better and better at it. And then maybe by the time they're older, they will have a greater repertoire of strategies to build on. And then for some of my high school kids, um, no, say if I'm doing guided imagery, if I call it guided imagery, I'm gonna lose them.

I have a lot of gamers. I have a lot of neurodiverse gamers and I'll say, Okay, so next time you're, you know, being yelled at,'cause that's a trigger for you. You don't like being yelled at. Okay, I want you to experiment with going to your favorite scene in your favorite Git video game and just try to remember your character walking around and see if you can picture the scenery of this favorite level.

And it's much more effective because again, being that O T, I think that is is key, meeting them where they're at with their occupational activity, which is their interest. And so I I get a lot more um I would say willingness to try something where they're like, wow, you just told me to use my video game for homework. And so whether it's I c I'm anxious at night, I can't sleep. So, you know, let's kind of do some imagery around your game.

Or a different place you went or a fun activity you've done. So

Where would you suggest they begin? Like what's one small and approachable step that they could try right away?

And so it's giving the language. Of course, this is simplifying it for children who have limited language abilities or limited cognitive abilities. So that's a harder thing to get into where you would adapt it. But I still, even with limited, you know, verbal language, I'm still modeling and sharing and discussing my own regulation as an adult and how it manifests because I it's a perfect example. They see my feelings, they feel my feelings.

And if I'm tired or if I'm seeming annoyed or frustrated, they pick up on that. And so it's it's a great.

And it takes trying again. When we expect neurodivergent kids to just know how to regulate without that learning curve, we miss the point. But if we approach it as a skill and help them build confidence along the way, we set the foundation for lifelong emotional resilience. I'm Emily Kircher Morris. I'll see you next time on the Neurodiversity Podcast.