How'd you like to listen to dot NetRocks with no ads? Easy? Become a patron for just five dollars a month. You get access to a private RSS feed where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month, we'll get you that and a special dot NetRocks patron mug. Sign up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey guess what, it's dot NetRocks. We're back. I'm Carl Franklin. That's my friend Richard Campbell. Hey
man, hey man, what's happening. Uh? You know, we're cheating here because I think this show had some scheduling challenges, so we're recording it right before we publish it. We have a few shows that are already in the can from our great trip bombing around Europe. Well, you and I were together in Porto and had got a bunch of good shows, which folks are going to hear. Yeah, but we're recording out of order because time shifting. That's right. Hey. But I'm at home and I like home.
Home is very nice, sitting by the ocean. I love home. Yeah, I'm a big fan. As you can see my new home. Yeah, you're in your studio, the studio that I'm in. Yeah, yeah, he loves red walls. Man, that's a thing for you. I love the red walls and the dim lights. Okay, okay, let's kick it off with better no a framework, run it awesome? All right, man? What do you got? So our friends at Selliance have been
working with large language models before chat chept was even a thing. So Zeyner Tahata, as you know, has been working with AI stuff since long, long time ago. So anyway, Joe Hewan has been working on this project and he announced it on his LinkedIn page. It's called Foundation LLM, and it's basically the goal is to make it very easy for anyone to create co pilots nice without you know, having to figure all the low level stuff out.
So a higher level of abstraction, yes, yeah, trustworthy and secure enterprise co pilots. And so what I've done is I've linked to the press release, which has a link to the website of course, and this is show eighteen seventy. So if you go to eighteen seventy dot pomp dot me, that'll take you there and you can read all about it. These guys are brilliant, I mean, yeah, well down about it, and Cyprin was involved in. Cyprin is crazy smart, like holy man, he is
crazy smart and also a little crazy. Yeah crazy Yeah, you guys and your your quantum stuff. We are. Yeah. When Cyprin I get together, it becomes a little storm. It comes an interesting storm. Yeah, black holes collide. Well he's more of the science guy. I'm more of the engineering guy. So we Yeah, it gets it goes fast. That's what I'll say. Yeah, all right, so that's what I got. No it, learn it, love it. Who's talking to us today,
Richard Campbell? In honor of our guests, I grabbed a comment off a show seventeen eighty seven, which is not a show done with Jeff Fritz, but I know that you know Jeff and I did. We did a show with him a while back on static websites, And this is actually a comment from the static website show we did with Stacy cash More and I grabb this particular comment because Stacy couldn't answer it, but I think Jeff could. This comment comes from Rob Garner, longtime listener. Hey Rob, are you doing?
I know you don't? Meek think you need another music to code by? You've got a few, but he wrote this comedy said this was an awesome episode. I've been working on a static web app with Azure functions application for a startup, and it's been very helpful to confirm that I'm on the right track. But the way that Stacey positioned it, I'm also contemplating using
this in the community college dot net course that I teach. But as you're always scared for student use because I'm afraid of them getting a big accidental bill, I wish I had a bulletproof workflow to make sure that we don't end up with charges for students. Wow. And I'm like, Rob, that's a brilliant idea, and I'm going to ask a guy who doesn't work an Azure to fix it for us, But well, you know, we'll lay
it over to Jeff. We get him on there, And I I said, longtime listener, a great contributor to the community, teaches people to do software development all the time. Big fan of yours, Rob, Thanks so much for everything you do. And even though you don't really need another copy of music go by. If anybody would else would like one, write a comment on the website at Donna at Rocks dot com. Or on the facebooks. We publish every show there and if you comment there and everybody in the
show, we'll send to your copy of music go by. You know what I love, Richard. I love when we're doing these live shows and you read that live and people their mouths just drop like, oh, I have an in Porto, didn't it? Yeah, that's exactly what happened to Porto. We ripped the whole thing out. I did my usual patter and then you look out at the room, use the one he called it out. I didn't even call it up with the whole They were all bug eyed their
bug eye. Yeah, they're like, you really do that every time time. Well, you can follow us on Twitter if you like. That's fine. We were still there, but the cool kids are hanging out. I'm Mastadon, I'm at Carl Franklin at tech hub dot social, and I'm rich Campbell at mass Social. Yeah, send us a two. We read him, and we might even read him on the air. Might actually end up with you getting a copy of music to code buy. So do that all
right, Jeff Fritz, you're here. Uh, I don't know as if you need an introduction, but I can go back in time a little bit. We first met you at tech ed somewhere for speaker Idol, which I believe you won or you came in runner up or something, but it was a JavaScript testing for no. I came in dead last, all right, because I loved it. As I recall, I've been a fan of years ever since. I thought it was great. It was a JavaScript testing framework
and this is right two thousand something, twenty twelve. Yeah, and I think I've actually seen you that you've seen it the year before, and it's like, I got to do that, yes, And I said, you know, I think you asked me, and I said, listen. The tricky we always recruit the same way out of tech d. You have to submit a to submit more talk or more get turned down. Easy to do
a tech ed and then come to the show anyway. Yeah, because I don't have a T and E. It's it's always interesting that I'll introduce myself to folks at Microsoft. And there's a thing at Microsoft when you meet new new employees or whatever, there's always a question of how long have you been with the company, how did you get your start with Microsoft? And I just casually mentioned, oh, I lost a game show. Yeah, but
it's testament to the power of that little thing. I gave you a speaker idol five minutes to do a talk and you get you know, even that people that didn't win got noticed by Microsoft. Now you work there, Oh yeah, and I do. Yeah, and you did and it was Yeah. So you're on the ASPNAT team and Blazer is your thing, right, I'm I am on the dot net and we call it the dot Net and Visual Studio Community Team. Yeah, okay, all right, so but you're
you're mister Blazer over there. I do. I talk a lot about Blazer and building demos and writing some of the training material that folks get on Microsoft Learn. And you've done a whole lot of stuff live on Twitch over the years. I might be. I think I'm closing in on a thousand episodes on Twitch. That's awesome. So it'll be five years for me this November. That's a faster cadence then we got to a thousand, that's for sure. There was a time in there where I was doing four streams a week.
Yeah, I had a lot of work, man, that's a lot when we published three shows a week. Yeah, but you clearly yeah, it was Hey, I do want to call back to Rob's comment because I do there's a whole section of four teachers in Azure. Isn't there like a bunch of services around that there? There is You can absolutely as as a teacher, as an educator, you can get in touch with us. There
are plans that you can sign up for. But I want to make sure that folks also know, particularly if you're using azuro static websites, there's a free plan in there that you can use like free free you you have a limit as to how much function as your functions work happens. But the static content that it's serving free free, free no issues, not free as in you know this is free as in beer like this is yeah? Is that
the funny kind of free? Not free like a puppy? Right? But also the point is that you can configure the count so is like as soon as I have a charge, just turn me off. Yes, that's right. There's budget limitations that you can configure on your account. It's real easy to dial that up and down to however much you're comfortable with, right, and you'll you'll get alerts as you reach certain thresholds nearing that that that dollar amount even if that dollar amount is zero. Yes, awesome, well,
and it's great. I thought that was the answer, but I thought I'd rather have it coming to from a Microsoft person so they have somebody to go after rather than me. That's right, because you can't check as you can't check a blue budget badge under the bus. Who can you check? Now? I've got a target on my chest. Thank you so much. We're here to help, Jeff, We really are. That was a career advancing
move. There you go, just did there you go? So dot net comf is coming up here, woo yes, Oh my gosh, it's my favorite time of the year. Love tell me something. I mean, don comf is very popular and people tune in. And I guess it was born during the pandemic maybe oh even before then pandemic. Okay, So dot net comp started as mvc comp way back in the day, all right, and we were connecting folks and dialing them in US using the old Windows phone calling
software. It was wow, are you trying not to say skypery? Is that what you're doing? No, it was even before Skype, oh my god, the old Windows meeting software. But I guess what I'm saying is It sort of took off during COVID, didn't it during the pandemic? No, not, it was it was actually taking off before then. Okay, we were in growing twice today. Oh no, No, it's something we don't We aren't with dot net Conf. We aren't out there publishing the numbers
and showing trends on how it's growing. We definitely saw a peak in the twenty twenty dot net confedition because it was such a point where, you know what, folks weren't going to events anyway. Yeah, and we were able to bring everybody in and put them in that comfortable event that we all know when love and that's been around now for I think this is the thirteenth edition of the event. What's your thoughts as to people tuning in online to dot
conference is going to in person conferences that Microsoft does. I think there's a place for both. However, the presentation of an all virtual event like dot net Con has immense reach. Everybody in the world can participate, and that's something that we strive to make sure that everybody has access to and that we
really want everybody to be a part of and to feel welcome into. To the point that we go thirty two hours straight from nine am on day two all the way through to five pm Pacific times of course five pm Pacific on day three. That way, over that thirty two hours, everybody's going to get a slice of the day that is on their time zone, that is in their normal daylight hours, so they don't have to wake up in the middle of the night in order to tune in and see what's going on.
Well, I've always liked this of Yeah, it's the launch of the next version of dot net, which has been true in the past but three years. But then also it's the community part of let's go around the world, and it's this, hey, we're coming to to you from such and such a location all the way around. That to me is the coolest bit. Yeah, and there's those couple of hardcore guys, right, I'm thinking of the elders of the world that try and watch the whole twenty four hours.
There are a few folks that we will see hanging out there through the entire stream, and it's amazing that they're hanging through. But it's you don't need to it's all recorded, it's all going to be made on YouTube later. So do you do eight hours live like on the West Coast, and then repeat those overnight, or is there always something being streamed live and always from the West coast? A little bit of both. So day one we're going to be live streaming all of Day one, So it's actually hours on day
one because we have an hour long keynote right up at the front. After that's over, we'll issue a repeat. We'll have some repeat playback through the evening broadcast from the West coast of the United States. When we get to day two, we'll have eight hours being broadcast mostly live from the West Coast. There's a couple of folks that are going to be dialed in and presenting remotely. But at the end of day two air quotes. It's weird doing air quotes on the radio. I need to figure out a way to do
that. And so at the end of day two, so we hit five pm Pacific time, we switch over and we'll have community folks that are broadcasting from everywhere in the world. So of course we're going to pick up with folks on the West Coast, anywhere on the West coast of the United States, Canada, Mexico, South America, folks in Hawaii, and we start
picking up with folks in Australia and the East Coast of Asia. We've even got speakers coming into us from China this year, so we're really looking forward to folks everywhere being able to connect in and present live all night long, no recorded content. However, if there is content that folks aren't entirely interested
in, there might be a slightly different topic. We have other folks that didn't quite make the cut for live presenting or that aren't weren't available to present live that we typically would have released as pre recorded content, but instead we decided this year, let's publish and have a premiere of their content live on YouTube as the event goes on. So it'll almost be like Room two happening over there, and there'll be subject matter experts hanging out in chat of those
broadcasts to help out with answering questions and foster some of the conversation that happens. That's very cool. And of course YouTube can you know, translate into immediately into any language, so you've got captions for anybody speaking any language. Absolutely, so do you ever get people that say, you know, can
you have presentations in my language? We tried that a couple of years ago, we tried saying, hey, you know what, if you're a local speaker that has a different native language and you'd like to use your language, go ahead. It wasn't well received by the audience during those few sessions, so we stick to English for the presentations and then we'll have translations available afterwards.
Interesting. Yeah, you know, we're just not that far away from the technology being good enough that you might hear it in real time translated audibly too. But I have heard over and over again. It's like folks like hearing it in the native language and then maybe subtitled or something else like that.
So I know, if I'm watching a TV show and it's you know, let's say it's a cooking show from Brazil, and you can hear them speaking Portuguese very low, and then there are Americans that have you know, or English speaking people that do the overlay, and I never like it as much because I mean, I don't like that if somebody's going to overdub overdubb,
I don't want to hear both languages and one more quiet. I don't know, what do you think, did well, didn't we see a little bit of an experiment with this from the Netflix folks with the Squid Game shows, where it was available both as dubbed into your local language or as the original Korean with subtitles. I did like the dubbed in version of that, just because I got to focus on the action. Such an action oriented series like that. Yeah, I didn't want to have to read as much as
a as a ink. Did you hear the Korean like low volume in the background at the same time, I can't remember. Yeah, that's what drives me nuts. It's just noise because I don't speak Korean. That's why I'm listening in English. Anyway. It's really cool what dot net comf has done. And I know Richard's been involved in it a couple of times. And what's your involvement this year, Richard? I occasionally, because I'm local relatively speaking, I can drive down, grab a night in a hotel, or
stay with a friend. I will take a shift calling out the various talks like basically doing the mc gig typically the VJ Yeah, the four hour bit. And you know, as is true of all mc gigs, it's pretty
easy. Like you call out the sponsors, you talk about the next thing you do a handoff right up until something goes wrong, and you've always got that little voice piece in your ear, and so then the director says, hey, next, talk's not ready Phil for five on you go, And you, as I do, too, have a lot of experience and just tap dancing when things go wrong, don't we. Yeah, we have a
lot of practice. No, that's I think that those rough edges around a live event like this are what make it so interesting, because I agree, right, we're developers. We want to see how things are put together. We want that experience of knowing that, hey, the folks that are broadcasting and presenting, we're real people too, and we're out there for folks to
interact with and respond to. There's always lots of great interactions through social media for dot dot com, right, yeah, And that's the other job of the MC is to pull the questions from the board and send them to the
guests. And I've also had the experience where in a fill it's like, here's a couple of questions that are not necessarily ready to that guest, but I can answer them, and I would off, I'd go, and I'll fully admit to pulling the Hey, I don't actually work for Microsoft, so I suspect I could answer this question differently than a Microsoft person would, and I'll find going that one too. Yeah, there's a couple of those questions
that come in come in. Yeah, it's it's sort of the reality of triaging a Q and A. I want to get back to this idea of how the landscape has changed for Microsoft development outreach. You know, since the advent of internet video and everything. Before Channel nine, the regional directors sort of had the job of distributing information from Microsoft to the to the local communities.
And that's why we were called regional directors because our job. We had one job, and that is they did a local events, you know, in different regions every year called dev Days, and the regional director's job was to do a keynote, often with hardware, right, They would send you boatloads of machines and stuff and you would have to run through the demo and a script and everything, and your job was to sort of be that liaison
between Microsoft and the community. But that was before YouTube, before Channel nine. When Channel nine came around, I think the job that and DEV Day's kind of stopped, right, and so the regional directors were like, well, Microsoft regional director. We don't work for Microsoft, we don't have a region, we don't direct anything. What do we do? You know,
we struggled to find our role in how we could help Microsoft. So then of course Channel nine boom, right, and people were tuning in and watching. I love Channel nine because it was you know, somebody would just take a video camera into Scott Guthrie's office and just sit down and chat with him. What are you working on? You know, it was very very informal, and I kind of I think people kind of like that. But then you know, as we get to dot net comp and it's various previous incarnation,
it really just went to a whole new level. So just as an aside, Channel nine does it still exist, it's it's not quite the same. The studios are there, they're not quite broadcasting and putting together frequent content like they were. More or less you see their output on the various Microsoft branded YouTube channels. Yeah, and that's smart. I mean not even United uses the term Channel nine anymore, right, Like that's where it came from.
Was this idea that you used to be able to listen in to what the pilots we're talking about on the flight right, and that seemed to be the intent to that. Yeah, so we know that conference about dot net eight, so there's going to be a keynote. Imagine you're gonna talk a little bit about dot net A. But what else can we expect? So we tinkered with something last year. We try and experiment every year with the event, trying new things. We want to get more folks involved, we
want to get more folks excited about things happening with dot net. So last year we tried this idea of an education zone, a student hub that gets folks that are new to dot net introduced and exposed to some of the various things that are going on around the product, and it went very well last
year, so that's coming back. This is a day zero event. So dot net comp starts on November fourteenth, but on November thirteenth, we're going to have this I believe it's a six hour series of streams that folks are going to be able to watch all around artificial intelligence, web apps, mobile apps, and game development. Now is it specifically for students. It's named student Zone, but it's really for anybody who's new to dot net. Okay,
Yeah, So it's almost like for novices. Yeah exactly, Yeah, very cool, But you don't want to call it the novice zone because you don't want folks to feel like it's I don't know, but student zone makes it feel like, yeah, I'm a student, I'm learning, I'm a beginner who wants to get involved and see what this is all about in a very friendly environment that makes it easy to ramp up. So lots of great
speakers that we have talking about all of that content. You can find a link to the Student Zone that folks are interested, you can sign up and register. Yeah, I've I've grabbed the link and stuck it in the show notes here, so thank you so much. Yeah, here it help. But yeah, beginner friendly area, right, because I do think that dot net comp if you're not experienced dot net person, dot comf goes off like
a gunshot, like we're up and running. It's like and especially when you talk about dot net eight, like you're talking about the eighth version of dot net twenty four years in, like there's just a lot of stuff like if you were it's good that date the day ahead to sort of get state folks that are new or stable and say like this is what you can expect. Here's the important bits you need to worry about. Like, in some ways, I think you're super lucky for just coming to dot net. Now there's
a whole lot of pain you're never going to experience. Oh yeah, there was. It was a painful trip getting here, it was, And dot Net COONF is in that place where it's really more of a training event for folks that are adjusting and moving forward the current versions of dot net dot Net seven, dot Net eight. We're gonna be talking a lot about all kinds
of features across both of those versions during the event. But if you're a beginner who's just getting in that Day zero is going to ramp you up quickly, give you pointers to where you can go to learn more information, and hopefully get you to a place that you're more comfortable and ready to hear what's happening with the rest of the event on days one, two, and three. Now that being said, how much are we gonna talk about large language
models? Is those days? Not much? I'm not going to complain because toy oh boy, it's kind of overwhelmed everything lately, Like it's been nice to talk about something else. It has we will. I absolutely need to talk about that. We need to touch on artificial intelligence, larger language models. That's absolutely something that folks want to learn about. But you know what, folks still got to build websites. Yeah, mobile apps, native applications
on Windows services, cloud scale applications, IoT devices. We're going to cover all of that during the event. Good. Yeahh that's great, But that's just you know, I think about the content tree for dot net rocks being a similar problem space. Oh yeah, plus maybe a little more politics than necessarily what a Microsoft event would get into, like the impacts of open source,
that kind of thing. But if you work and see sharp the stuff for you, if you're dealing with Blazer or this stuff for you, like all those lins. Like I'm trying to decide what tags to put into this show, and it's like, I think it's all of them. Yeah, we're going to touch on a lot of things. Yeah. I actually I put together a list of ten sessions that I think must watch. Okay, for folks, the typical folks that are going to be watching dot net cof.
Now, if you're more focused on web than other technologies, you may adjust this, But I put together a list of ten sessions that I think are going to be really good to tune in. All right, Well, before you go down that list, we should break for this very important message. Yeah, oh, I could use a snack, and we're back. Jeff Scott is snack and it's dot net Rocks. I'm Richard Campbell. That's
Carl Franklin. Hey, hey, those munching noises you hear are Jeff Fritz And we're talking a little bit about talking about about dot net cof and okay, what are the cannot miss sessions of dot net cough? All right, Now I'm a little biased because I'm a bit of a web developer. Okay, I'm a lot biased. Okay, So here we go with the top ten list that that I put together that I I really want to watch. Number one with a bullet it's easily the one of the most popular sessions every
year. What's new in c sharp twelve with Matts Tourgerson and Dustin Campbell. Yeah, all right, so the people who bring you the new version of c sharp, what we've been up to the past year, right, Like, okay, yeah, show me show me all the cool new stuff I can do with the language. Because that's that's important. Yeah, And we were just in Europe and see and saw Mads in Warsaw talking. He has a version pieces of that that he fit into an hour for the Warsaw audience.
So absolutely, you know, it's amazing to see twelve versions of a language, and definitely from the people who are making it. Oh yeah. The second session that I recommend folks to check out is packing Light with vs code and c sharp DevKit with Burke Holland and Leslie richardson Interesting. I am a big fan of c sharp DevKit and vs code because a couple months a
year I spend dedicated in Lenox writing code in Linux. I want to do my C sharp development, Blazer ASPNT development working with Azure on a Linux machine. I want to spend a month or two on my Mac and get outside the right The friendly confines of visual Studio and vs code and c sharp DevKit are so cool to use in those environments, So I make sure I want to make sure that folks check that out because it really is a nice experience.
And not to just derail things here though, but what's your response to so C sharp DevKit we don't need studio anymore? Right, like this is the end of studio. It's not the end of studio, it's right. C Sharp DevKit just gives you the way to organize your code the same way you do in studio, and it gives you that same language server feature that you had in studio that is really robust, really clean, and quite frankly
at high speed like you're used to in Visual Studio. There's all kinds of other features in Visual Study that you aren't even touching it sure with VSC, I've also found I've been talking to a few groups now who are starting who were using it before it was in general release, and it was we have team members who who are typically web developers who've never worked in studio. They don't want to work in studio, and they couldn't see the project. They
were working on their own stuff. But it was always a bit of an integration problem when it came down to the you know, the overall suite of things. So making them sort of full citizens of the project seem like a great compliment, like that's that's a good thing, as folks are discovering how projects and solutions work together that we've been accustomed to in studio for decades now they're getting the organization of that and going huh yeah, yes, this this
makes sense to me now. Yeah, so just more people able to work together. And I like that and it's a it's a great feature. Yeah, do the Visual Studio proper project templates map over? Can you actually open those? Like? Can I create a new Blazer web app? And it already has all this stuff put in there? Yes, it does because the dot Net templates are coming off of the dot net Cli, so it loads up in seas and they have the shared template model. Yeah that's great.
Yeah. Yeah, Speaking of Blazer, you know, you and I are doing a little something at dot net com. We are. We'll be talking about Blazer puzzles. The game show segment of the third day will be pausing and talking about a few Blazer puzzles for folks getting into dot net eight with Blazer. So, Blazer Puzzle dot Com is a new show that Jeff and I are doing there. The episodes are like ten twelve minutes each and we posit a problem. We say, here's some simple code, why doesn't it
work? Or you know, implement feature X or something along those lines. It's a puzzle and yeah, as I say, we got what ten or eleven episodes out there, and we're going to be doing one live at dot net comp. Maybe we'll do two or three or maybe revisit one. Not sure, but we're gonna do something again. Definitely got to do a callback to a past one. That's a great idea and to see how people responded to it, and then maybe the new puzzle could be Okay, now do
this in dot net A there you go. Yeah, number three all right, so number three I have dot net Love's AI with John Maida and Scott Hanselman. Who's John Maida? Wow? So John Mayida is actually an artificial intelligence luminary. This guy's been around the artificial intelligence field for years and was even he was embedded with MIT. He's been working at a number of organizations promoting and diving into really some of the foundational things that we take for granted
in the AI field today. Interesting. So they're going to be talking about some of the things that we can do from a very wide scope with artificial intelligence in dot net. Is he relatively recent to Microsoft. He is, He's only been with us for just a few years, but making a big difference in how we engage and promote AI across all the products across Microsoft.
I mean, I just like that that Microsoft is building out this cadre of folks who've been involved in this space a lot longer than chat GPT's been around. So it's just such a bunch of technologist running around. But like kind of best and brightest. He was one of the twenty one people you need to know for the twenty first century. Yeah, how about that? Huh, Like that's a heck of a list from Forbes. That's kind of crazy. Yeah, so okay, that just being on a Forbes list is serious
cred. That's one thing right there. But yeah, no, he kind of that's really interesting, So okay, that's definitely worth a grab, all right. Next one is improving application telemetry with net eight and open telemetry. Noah Fulck and Sam Spencer are talking about this. Wow, taking our logging
to the next level, really right. I Mean, when you're locking messages from your applications, you want to have that caught and displayed somewhere, and there's all kinds of tools that do that, but open telemetry really is that gateway that's going to make it available to be displayed anywhere. So I want to see this one and learn about how I can use things like Prometheus with my dot net applications. Interesting, steal a fire, steal a fire,
sorry to say it. After that, there's dot net container advancements in dot net eight. Our friends Chet Husk and Richard Lander are talking about this. I feel like the container story just gets better and better each year. Dot Net seven you can build directly into containers. Now even more advancements with our containers getting smaller and better across not just x eighty six x sixty four processors, but ARM processors, so I can deploy to right to machines running ARM
like my Raspberry pies. Really cool stuff. It to me, the big thing about running and containers is I want to be sure that my software causes no side effects and is not is impacted by no side effects. It's taking that cookie cutter works on my machine application, and it's going to work the same everywhere else. Yeah. Sure, what you put it in a container.
What you're saying is it works on my machine because it's my machine, right Like you're literally in a contata that says there's nobody elseres here about me. I live alone, absolutely, So I want to talk about another AI session for number six here, Okay, create an enterprise copilot extension for visual studio code through semantic Kernel. This is with kinfey Low. So now we're talking about helping make visual studio code better with your own syntax, your own
content. I like that. What's semantic kernel? So semantic kernel is a is a tool that lets you build your own model, your own capabilities to interact with and train so that you can then get answers to questions appropriately for
whatever topic it is that you're working on. So I guess it's a higher level of distraction than working directly with models and training and yeah, yeah, the short answer would be it's generating your own chat GPT, right, But there's more functionality that you can dial into it besides just ask it a question. You can actually hand off to functions and things that'll perform computation. Well maybe similar to foundational m Yeah sounds all on the same lines, along the
same lines. Yeah, not a bad thing. My big concerns with web development are what are leading me into number seven? I'm always concerned about performance. Number seven is improve your ASPNT core web at performance with Azure Cash for reddis I feel like we as an industry need to get on board the Reddest bandwagon here, because, oh my lord, will it make your applications better if you're hitting a database, if you're doing any kind of cashing, don't
just do output cashing cash with reddess. Right, Catherine Wang and Mark Grovell are going to be talking about this. I want to see what they've got and learn more about how I can use Reddus better in my applications. You know, that's great. I'm thinking about ms opent tech back in the day, you know, twenty twelve to twenty fourteen, and that was one of
the very first projects they were talking about. Dot Net needs to be a first class client for Reddus, right and for Elastic, Like it was those kinds of these very successful platform pieces before we were really doing cloud platform the way we are, and just a recognition that they came from the open source community and that they it wasn't easy to use them through dot net. You had to jump through a lot of hoops, and so you know, ms
up attack made that come true. What I like about these particular talks is like it's almost to eat your vegetables too, right, This is not just like these are new bits because it's dot neta but it's like, hey, while you're thinking about the new bits, have you picked up the stuff that's been important for a while and maybe you just haven't looked at it. Because this is important. You do not need to solve casing. It is a
solved problem. It is very solved. It incredibly smart people have tackled this. You just need to learn it and in a half an hour session you're you're gonna be on the road to set your feet out of you anyway, and then you're already online, So go read further. Number eight. I'm always working with database on my applications and I need to spend more time with Cosmos. So number eight is building planet scale dot net apps with Azure Cosmos
dB from Justine Coachy. I believe this. I pronounced Justine's name here. Cosmos has a handful of different model so that you can use not just no SQL with Mongo dB like bindings, but you can use postgress in there. There's a graph database that you can use in there, and you could pivot and use all these things. I can't wait to hear from Justine as they get us in and ramped up with Cosmos for dot neet developers. So's the thing that makes Cosmos cosmosy is that it's pushed to the edge, right,
push to the various regions around Azure. Yea, yeah, but it's at that last mile, like it's close to where you are rather than some you know, server in a data center somewhere. But you still need to have an application that's out there on those data centers near it if you want to
take full advantage of it. Sure. Yeah. I also look at it as an art as architecture for the right centrally read remotely sort of distributed model, which again you can roll your own, and there's other open source libraries, but like, this is a platform built that way from scratch, so you don't need to own any of the bits, just call it and it basically has a Mango dB interface a calling interface to it, like if you're
building, the migration from Mango to Cosmos is trivial. And because they've got bindings for postgress in there also, you can use a postgress API as well. Right, So there's a handful of APIs in there, not just Mango and Postgrass, like I said graftb as well. Really cool stuff for folks to check out. Number nine, I'm going to go a little bit outside the box here. Folks are always looking at and saying, hey, check out all the cool frameworks that Microsoft ships with dot net, but there's other
user interface frameworks that you got to check out. And I want to call out a session about UNO platform. Yeah. I love those guys. Ah. So this is called Elevate your Cross Platform dot Net Development with dot Net eight from Nick Randolph and Francois Tangay There. Yeah, I want to learn more about UNO and how I can use that because while I like using dot net MAUI, I'm always open to learning other frameworks, other tools that work
with dot net. It's great to have options and other folks that are building and helping the entire community. Yeah, without doubt, and it's one of those, you know, one of those great things that there's there's more than one way to solve this. Those guys came from the UWP place, you know, and then got all into w A like they've done some cool stuff.
It's great to see them on board they have. I agree, and you know, we made a lot of shows in that space, not just do you know about Avalonia and so forth for exactly that reason that like, there's not one way to solve this problem. So you know what my last secon, my last session I'm going to recommend is a similar third party framework that I think isn't a topic that's fun and something that we can we can all kind of sink our teeth into and learn a little bit about. And
it's about using c sharp with GOODOH to make games. For Michael Hawker, do you have to wait for good I knew that one was coming. Holy man, we could be sitting here a long time just saying so GOODOUGH is an open source framework, really cool stuff to help build games. It's really gotten a lot of attention over the last month or so with some of the changes that have happened to Unity. Folks have been checking out and exploring GOODO
a bit. Really cool stuff to hurt to hear from Michael talking about how we can get started with GOODOUGH. So I'm looking forward to learning more about that during our sessions. That sounds good. I'm going to take a look at that one. Yeah, it's good and it's good to have some alternatives. Poor old Unity. No tears shed for Unity here? Well, they you know, they I get what was going on? It cost a CEO is job. There you go, there, you go, well, we
don't like that. It is all right. That was a heck of a list of ten What are you going to be doing? What am I going to be doing? So I'm yeah, what are you? I'm the producer. I got to make sure that this thing is running. So I typically have a seat in the in the studio just off camera where I'll be watching moderating, coordinating with the technical director and audio engineers make sure that everything's running
soundly. But I'll pop up hosting for a little bit for a few hours and talking with our buddy Carl. You guys, you are going to take a hosting shift. Yep, absolutely, I got to admit, like I've done hosting shifts and hosting has its own challenges, but the crew behind the whole project, like you can't imagine how many moving parts there are that you
don't have to think about. When you're hosting. You're just making your marks, calling out the piece you need to call to, pulling up the right questions and passing them along to the to the the piece that's just been done, and then handing off to the next one, and all of that is done by other folks that are ready to go. Dude, I've seen at dev Intersection, what the you know, Microsoft brought like an entire studio that was behind the screen to do streaming, and I was looking in there.
There's like twenty people, there's like seventy workstations and one hundred thousand screens. It's just like whoa well that I produced and was part of that event, right? That was that was the connected event in twenty eighteen. Yeah, we brought to Las Vegas. We didn't they do full mirroring for that one too. Like that, that's the step beyond where every demo being done on stage is also being done in behind the stage, so if something went wrong,
they would just flip and keep going. Yeah, I can cut right to another machine. I ever paid on pace with it. Ever since Bill Gates got a blue screen during a keynote, there's been this mirroring mechanism that never happened again, Oh my goodness. And they spend a lot of money to make that true. H The rest of us just eat it sometimes, you know, that's the that's the glory of life coding and live present.
But I mean and you guys aren't that heavily produced a dot cough, Like I've seen demos go sideways too, right, I mean, some stuff's recorded, some stuff's not. But it's like, hey, it's real life. It's okay and right, And that goes back to part of making us human more realistic that folks can relate to, because hey, yeah, not everything is perfect all the time. We've got some rough edges, and developers deal
with that every day day, right. I mean you you code for an hour and you hit run and you get some bugs and oh well that wasn't supposed to happen, and you spend most of your time figuring it out.
I remember absolutely. I remember a d n R TV with I think it might have been even Hansleman, where you guys were sort of warming up and it went sideways and you left the recorders running and watching Hansoman dismantle the problem and fixing it turned out to be a better show, Like that's yeah, and I and I remember that he said, no, no, keep it running, this will be good, just keep it going, this will be fun. And yeah, it's like you know, yeah, how you solve
a problem is easily as interesting as demonstrating how something works. Yeah, I guess the only thing you have to be careful of is that your audience is time right. If it's a small window of time and they're expecting to see X and they end up seeing you debugging X and never getting to the end of the story. Well, and that was the advantage with the DNR TV. It was a pre record. Yeah, and so you just rewrote the show description. Yep. It's like, hey, instead, let me show
you debugging a problem that happened in real time. But I agree. So it's especially good in training. You know, when something happens if you're live coding and training and you say do you want to watch me debug this or would you like to move on? And most people will say no, figure it out, I want to see this. Yeah, when when things like that happen during my live streams on Twitch, if if I can get out of it in ten to fifteen minutes, we'll get out. We'll try and
solve this. That's a good rule. But well we'll time box it and if I go to long, then we're going to move on and I'll fix us off stream. You know. I did that video series with the studio team and I where I talked to Leslie ridge In about the debugger, and really that series was about, hey, do you remember just how good these things are? And the debugger by far my favorite one because the debugger in studio is unbelievably good. And Leslie made this awesome point, It's like,
who did just debugging? Like almost all of us learned it looking over someone's shoulders. Yeah, well who that's what? Who reads crash dumps is like only tests? We give it to test that. Yeah, but the debugger for Visual Studio is so good and so user friendly that you don't really need instructions to use it. Yeah, for the most for a certain layer of features. When you get deeper into like it'll help you all the time. But boy, when you know more about it, Yes, it's way cleverer
than you realize. Like its ability is shocking. Oh yes, and I wish we taught it more. Maybe, Gee, I think I'm well positioned to solve that problem, aren't I Maybe I'll pursue that talk for DEVNT. We should do it. We haven't. I can't tell you the last time we did a show Donna rossby debug Yeah. Actually I believe Leslie's talking about the debugger at devent this December. Yeah, yeah, you're right, she
will be. That's great. So and again it's like, yeah, maybe we need a debugging When I'm hung talk, it's just like, hey, okay, let's really take this to say, have you the same way that Kathleen takes sea sharp out for a spin? And it's like, hey, have you have you tried to use it this way? Have you tried this feature? Maybe you still just use this technique that's a few versions ago. Look at this. So our friend Bill Wagner is actually giving a session at
dot net com called Everyday Sea Sharp from the Guy which you wrote. He's the book exactly. Bill's gonna dive into here's some of the latest updates and how you may want to shift the way and bring your shift the way you write code, and bring your approach a little bit more current because the new features that are available will allow you to write less code that runs faster and easier to read too, like simpler. Yes, you know, a little
less interpretation problem. And yeah, his book was effective c sharp, so it makes sense that he'd talk about that. But it's something I bugged Mad's about ages ago. It's like Hey, you know, how do you stop people from using it the old way when you built the new ways? And it's like, well, that's what tooling's all about, trying to make antalizers
help with that to be sure for sure? Yeah, let's let's not forget writing code isn't just about making the machine do things fast, but it's about letting those human eyes that are going to read your code next know what your intent, even if they're own eyes. Because a week later, I'm like, who wrote this? Oh wait, it's me speaking of a week later? What's your plans after dot dot com? If you're going to take a vacation. So I've got I've got all the post event wrap up stuff.
We've got to send out reports and things and let everybody know how we did all that good stuff. I'm gonna vacate. I'm gonna take a couple of weeks off to be sure, But then we've got deaf Intersection in December, and then I'll be taking the rest of the year off. But I will see you in Orlando. Yes, well, they find your vacation, you find yourself traveling north to New York or Boston, you definitely should stop by.
I'm So I've got an interesting, interesting problem with vacation because my daughter. My daughter is in the marching band at Penn State University. You see the posts and really excited for her. And if the football team's doing well, we might be traveling to see how they do and how the band is doing with them. Are they still doing bowls? Oh? Yes, yes,
your daughter participating in a bowl that's astonishing. So even if they don't make the national championship playoff, they'll be in a bowl game, and based on where they're ranked right now here in November twenty twenty three, we should see them probably playing on New Year's you don't know where, yeah, like you don't know which ball where we won't So it's like I have a plan
for New Year's. I'm going somewhere, right, This is right. This is the challenge is we don't know where they're going until after the last of the conference championship games, which are like beginning in December. Like, okay, you've got three weeks go. Yeah, it's almost like go block hotel rooms in a bunch of bowl locations just in case. Yeah, there'll be there'll be blocks of rooms set aside for various fans Umni School America just hoping inn RV. Yeah, dun, dun du Who would do that? Who
would hop in inn RV right across the country? A thing that's crazy. Now, okay, listeners out there, what you don't know, Okay, now I'm going to take over the podcast for a second. What you don't know is before I got hired from my first job after losing that contest, that tech that was, I met these two fellas at an RV stop in Philadelphia and I brought them cheese sets, true, and that conversation led to
my first job. Wow in this industry. Oh where Now it was one of the universities that we were doing the show at, as I recall, I think the Penn State University was across the way, but it was a Microsoft office. Yeah, yeah, that's right back in the day. I
think that was a twenty twelve road trip. And wasn't that the one where we were plugging ht con We were plugging HTA box and you had a yeh, it was twenty fifteen when you were on the stream when we were working on already where you had a tornado warning in the middle of stream, like
this is a little too on the point for disaster response. But okay, yeah, right, Like, why is it Whenever i get involved with the live stream with Microsoft and I'm at home storms, heat, tornado warning, I'm like, hey, you know what, Jeff, you don't have to keep streaming. You should go get in the basement. How about that be right back? All right? Man, Hey, this has been a lot
of fun. I can't wait to uh to hang out with you. It's net comf and puzzling and also just to watch the great content and be involved loving it. That's all. I'm excited and looking forward to it absolutely. All Right, Jeff, We'll see you later, and dear listener, we'll talk to you next time on dot net rocks. Goodbye everybody. Dot net Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net and produced by Pop Studios, a full service audio, video and post production facility located physically in New London,
Connecticut, and of course in the cloud online at pwop dot com. Visit our website at d O T N E t R O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads, mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives. Going back to show number one, recorded in September two, thousand and two, and make sure you check out our sponsors. They keep us in business. Now go write some code. See you next time. You got jug middle vans and Yes