Nerdpreneur. You know, I love my work. Welcome to Nerdpreneur, where we have fun conversations with people making money with their nerdy passion. I'm joined, as always, with my co host, Frank. Hello. And today we have a very special guest. His name is Josh. Welcome to nerdpreneur. Hi. Thanks. So, Josh, what is your nerdy passion? So, basically, what's called the empty chest. And what we do is we've taken an open world video game, or D and D game, and brought it to life.
And so if you were a guest and you were to come through a giant haunted village, you would be going on quests and talking to villagers to save their cat or break somebody out of prison to get a coins that allow you to join the Guildmasters Guild, and then you can fight werewolves and orcs with bow and arrows. Don't give away everything, man. Sounds like you got all your adventure hooks in there. That sounds awesome. Can we refer to you as a larp? Is that what you're doing?
We call it Larpy G. Okay. Is that cooler or less cool than LarP? I'm not sure. So, yeah, like, it's just a play on RPG and Larp. And so we say LARPG and so it's live action role playing, but also a game. And the fact that you literally are, it's just fully gamified. Have you gotten some pushback from people thinking it's a larp? And they go, oh, I'm not into larps. That's the tough thing. Marketing wise, we try not to push too much of the larp side of things.
And we just kind of use it as a hashtag. And that's why we kind of lean on the Halloween marketing to be like, it's a haunted adventure, and people are like, sweet. But then when they get there, it's like, if you've ever. That first time you brought your d and D friend, or someone who was like, too cool for D and D, and the first time they tried, they're like, holy crap, this is amazing.
That's the thing about I feel so many of these nerdy passions we run into is that you don't really know how awesome it is until you do it. And when I was reading over your website, what I got the impression was almost like, video game combined with being in it. Right. With the role playing aspects of it. Exactly. Yeah. We try to kind of lean it more towards, like, think of a video game come to life. Like, any open world.
If you've played witcher or if you played breath of the wild, that kind of thing. Just that open world. Run around, solve quests, and don't die. So can you die in this thing? You can, yes. So, like, when you come in your groups, everyone has their life belt, and you can think of it like. Like, capture the flag football kind of thing. And so you've got the flags, and monsters will be trying to take those off of you.
And as long as one person has at least one life in your group, you can still play. Whoa. Okay. So there's a fine line here. Cause I wanna know the rules, but I also don't wanna go too deep into the rules. Cause then we'd spend about 40 minutes just talking about those rules, as Chris and I can easily do. Chris just edits everything out. So we end up with a 20 minutes episode. No. So I am very curious. You talk about this as if you've done it for a while already. How many years?
How many runs have you done this? So of this iteration, this is our fourth year. And the reason why it's our fourth year. Is this the one we love the most? It's the one that has connected with audiences the most and is the one that's been growing the most. Yeah. So this is our fourth year doing the empty chest. And so we've had different types of life belts. We used to have a life vest. It's just changed and grown over time. And, uh, I like where it is now. And I'm.
I'm excited because, like, it was a little linear when we first started, and now it's more open world, which is what I've always wanted. And we've even started a kickstarter for our zombie open world, which is, like, getting quite a bit of traction, too, which is awesome. Well, we might know. We've had a zombie magician who's a professional zombie scarer on the podcast. I don't know if you noticed him, but, yeah, if you're looking to hire zombies from Germany, we can hook you up.
All right, let's do it. He's way over there. Yeah. And that does tie into one of my other questions around all of this. So you've been doing this for about four years. Do you have experience in the haunted industry, a haunted house, haunted park industry? I think I have as much experience as anyone who first starts out. You go to enough and you go through there and you start to notice that a lot of them, in my opinion, they start to tend to be quite similar.
And so I was going to a bunch of different haunted houses. You wait in a 1 hour long lineup, and then you go through and it's maybe six minutes long, and you're like, okay, that was quite the evening. And so I just wanted to change and adjust that. And so I built one in my front yard. I booked time slots for people and I had them go through it. And we did all of the, don't. All the money went to charity. We did it, the BC children's hospital. And, yeah, it was really fun. And then that was like,
what hooked me. I was like, I built it. I was kind of struggling. I didn't know exactly what to do. I was like, I'm just going to build this and hope for the best. And then we had this lineup down the block across the street in, like, the crosswalks. Like, police were coming. They were like, what's going on? Why are there so many people? And I was like, I didn't, I don't know. Word of mouth, I guess, right? Did you advertise or was it just like, oh, tell your friends.
And people came out kind of like. I'd reached out to, we have this pretty big publication here called Vancouver's awesome. And they have like 6 million followers. And when they found out, they're like, oh, you're doing this for charity. We'll plug you. And then, so one day, I think it was like 190,000 people had shared that post of us. And I was like, and like, it was just like my front yard haunt. I was like, you don't know. It's not as big as you think it is.
And so this lineup, and we had to, like, eventually walk down the street and give the, like, the last person, like, here, you're the last person. Hold this sign. And so they held a sign that said, I'm the last person. So people were kept coming up and be like, oh, nuts. Yeah. And I remember we're supposed to end at, like, 11:00 I,
and I was the mummy. And so, because, yeah, it was egyptian themed, and so I was inside of a sarcophagus waiting for Bill to come in, and I'd pop out and then, like, drag myself along the floor and scream at them, and they would run away. And I was there to, like, 1115 in the morning. This is nuts. I love the MVP here that you've got.
And I want to actually dive into a little bit, what was this product, what was this minimum viable product experience that you'd created for these people that everyone had lined up for? So the difference of what we had done, I mean, save the lineup. I didn't expect the lineup to happen. Once I saw the lineup, I was like, oh, my God, I got to change something. Which is why we do booked ticket slots now. But we do again, it's more of an adventure. So it was pitch black in there.
You get a lantern that's, like, has, like, a flame inside, and you walk in and you have your little adventurer's bag, and it has, like, little tools inside. And when you get inside, you have to, like, use your tools to accomplish the tasks in order to open the chamber to get out of the other side. And so people really liked that interactive. Like, escape games were pretty big around that time, too, so people were loving that. And so people were going in. They're using
their lantern to look at stuff. And, like, we had a picture of, like, anubis on the wall holding a canopic jar, which is all, like, the jars that all the organs go into. And then we had all of the jars on, like, the table with a. All the goopy, gross intestines and brains spilling out of them. And people had to go in and try to find the right jar, and I'd use their tools to open the jars and then come back out.
Yeah, so people were just loving that interactive side of it, and, yeah, it just blew up. And so that's why we were like, okay, people like to interact. People like the games. They like the tactile experience versus, like, I think a traditional haunted house is more like walk through, don't touch stuff, and things will just scare you. Yeah, yeah. It's very. Well, that's exactly what I was thinking of. When it's a haunted house, I'm like, wow, okay, am I just going to walk through?
Kind of very gated. It's. It's not interactive. But as soon as you said you gave them an adventure bag, I'm like, oh, that sounds cool. What's that for? And now I'm intrigued. Right? And so to take that, like, initial concept, was it always rooted in horror? And is this all Halloween themed? Like, it's kind of rooted in kind of that horror haunted house feel, but just much bigger. Yeah, like, I mean, we're not. Jump scares have never
been my favorite thing. Like, they're fun, and I like, they're always good to have around, but, like, for me, it was, like, more fantasy. And I think fantasy has a lot of scare elements to it. Like vampires, werewolves, orcs. Like Lord of the Rings. I wouldn't say is a horror film by any means, but, like, there are some scary moments. Like when the Balrogs come in, you're like, holy crap. Right? Yeah. Intense, right? Yeah. And so that's what we try to create is more of an intense experience
versus a scary experience. And, like, when people arrive, they get, like, a map, they get their life belt. They get a little coin pouch to collect all their coins in as they walk around. And then they have, like, certain things they have to do. Like, in order to go to the archery and fight the monsters, they must take their archery lesson with the archery master,
and then they get a pin that allows it. Like, so there's certain little things that you're allowed to get that allow you to go into other areas of the haunt. That's so cool. It sounds awesome. Yeah. And I think, like, when you say intensity, that automatically makes me think of the difference between, like, an average d and D game and, like, a really great dungeons and dragons game. And it's kind of the same with, like, a really great game of football versus an average game of football.
It's the level of intensity, and intensity is also another word for immersion. And what I'm hearing is that you help create a really immersive experience for people going through this, and that's why maybe they get a little scared at times, but it's just because it's more of an intense experience or they're more immersed within the reality of what it is.
Absolutely. Like, one of the biggest things that I wanted to create was a fear of loss, because I think that once you feel you can lose something, you got more skin in the game, like a haunted house. You can jump and you can scare, but, you know, it's all like, I can't be hurt. No one's going to touch me. It's all fine. But, like.
But two things that we changed is one, we have professional stunt actors, professional bodyguards, professional, just actors in general who kind of understand and know what is and isn't safe. They take many courses. And so one of our main rules is we can touch you, you can't touch us. Whoa. Yeah. And so, like, people are like, they see that first rule
and they're like, wait, what? And so, like, because there's certain things that, like, we're trying to take your life force, but we can't have you willy nilly waving weapons at us. But we know that, like, we're not going to touch you harmfully. We're not going to do any, like, thing. Weird. We're just here to, like, give you an experience. And the second one was the life force. You have something to lose. You have an ability to be like, we're going to kick you out, if you like.
So they're really in it. They're like, crap, everyone, like, I remember this group of guys, they got together. They were coming through and they're like, all right, everyone back to back and just spin. Just constantly spin. And they're just shooting arrows and spinning. Like, no one can touch us. It was really awesome to see this just sounds fun. Is this something that, like, you can bring a date to, or do you have to have, like, ten people to do this? Or, like, how does that work?
Because it's an open world. Like, you can bring, like, we do the max kind of group just because of, like, the tent spaces and the villages and the prison. Because, like, you can also do, like, if you do something wrong, like, if you try to steal something and you get caught, we have a prison, and we lock your group in there. And so we, we. The max your group can be is four, but you could do one, two, or four. Oh, cool. No, three.
I mean, you could, but the big thing about three is that you'd just be paying for a four person ticket. We don't have a three person ticket, so I guess you could buy two and then one. But I see what you mean. So the thing that you have done over the years and that this is the fourth iteration of is a Halloween monster archery haunt. Correct. When does it start? Like, when is it open to the public? And when does it close to the public?
October 21 at 05:00 p.m. is our very first group going through. And then October 31 at 10:00 p.m. is our last group. So this goes on for how many hours? Most people like, we suggest 2 hours. You come in, you have 2 hours. There's food, there's beer, there's a tavern, there's monsters you can explore around. And then around the two hour mark, we start to be like. We encourage you to do your last mission, and then booty, scoot out, and if you don't, then the guards will arrest you again.
Okay. All right, so there's a series of quests. So just to get an idea of what the experience is, but, you know, treading that fine line of not spoiling the adventure, what can a person expect in their first maybe 15 minutes when they get there? All right, so when you arrive, like, before you pass the threshold that is Ravencroft, there's going to be, like, a sign that kind of gives you the rules and, like, what to expect a little bit.
And then you'll get your little, your gear pouch, your life forces, your. That kind of thing. And then, and then we say, like, any questions you have, you can ask them here. But once you're inside, everyone's in character, so no one's going to be like, hold your hand. So you need to come back out if you have those kind of questions. But otherwise, you're in it, and you can ask questions. And the second they get in there, they'll be walking around, you know, there'll be music
from the Lord of the Rings. There'll be, like, different sort of sound effects you'll hear. And then the first thing you see is the tavern. And you kind of go there, and, you know, the bartender will be like, well, you know, what can I get you? What brings you to town? That kind of thing. And they're like, I don't know. They're like, well, why are you here? Why are you wearing those weird clothes? Like that kind of thing? And, like, and there's a. There'll be a bard playing music,
and then it kind of just. You're in it. You're just, you've walked. You're started, and you'll might, you might walk across a dead body with, like, a plague doctor being like, have you seen anyone around that might have done this to, where were you on June 14? And they're like, I don't know. And so, like, it just starts to develop in that way. And then also the next thing you know, like, okay, well, our map says to go to the Guildmasters tent. Maybe we should, like, check
out the Guildmaster. He's like, okay, well, if you want to be a part of the guild, you've got to pay. No one gets in for free. And I know there's a lot of odd jobs, so why don't you just go talk to the blacksmith? And so. And away it starts. And then you just start chatting and people have quests and, like, he's missing a hammer and yada, yada, yada, yada. Getting very westworld vibes here. Yeah, but like rpg, right? That's very, very cool. Cool.
So I know Vancouver is known for, well, you can basically throw a stone and hit any actor, but, like, do you have a process for finding actors that are good for this or did you just kind of get a troop together and you guys have created this experience? Or we have an amazing stage manager who is part of, like, an old troupe, and she has just been in the theater industry for decades, and so she just knows everyone who has been a roving artiste, circus performer, actor,
you name it. And so we just, you know, grabbed that group of people that we just know are fantastic at it and we'll like, you know, year after year, they're going to keep just building because, like, every year, the larger we grow, we're just going to add new stories, new quests very similar to, like, westworld when they're like, all right, we're going to try the new destruction of the so and so. Like, so we're going to keep adding stuff like that, which is great.
All right, cool. So you get, like, a whole casting for it, right? Yeah. If you ever need acapella singers, I know a group up there. Yeah, it's the kind of thing you could have a couple of them off to the side or if the bard's got to take a day off, or maybe the bard was killed, who knows? But, yeah, I would have made an acapella gangster. Ooh, acapella gangster. That's awesome. I wanted to go back to your original, like, front yard haunted house for a second, and that sounds
like it was a unexpected success. Right? Like, things went well there. How did you go from that first sort of stumble into success that this thing worked to now I'm going to create a business that I charge money for and hire actors and create a whole experience and bring that into a. Real fruition through a lot of trial and error. Actually, I did that, and I stupidly decided to go from the small haunt to the biggest thing ever without having a big enough following. And unfortunately,
it failed. It died, it crashed, it burned, and I had to shut it down. I had to close it. I had to, like, you know, like, business gone bankrupt kind of situation, and then wait a little bit and then start again. And when we started again, this iteration kind of had everything that the other one didn't, but also got rid of all the stuff that made it bad. Like, for example, the. It was called fear mongers, and it was. It was good, or at least it was trying to be good.
Just didn't have the. The money, the backing, the marketing behind it yet. And so I was trying to build an outdoor world inside of a 12,000 square foot warehouse. And so the cost to do that, like, I'm like, oh, this will be great. And then I get there, and it's just astronomical. It's well above what I'm able to do. The construction workers don't know what I want. It's super confusing. We're running into, like, hiccup after hiccup.
It was just like, a comedy of errors over and over again to the point where we're like, this is like, it just doesn't work. And then it didn't, it didn't work. And so then we're like, well, what if we do it outside instead of paying to build it indoors? Like, that makes no sense. And since then, and obviously, all the costs go down because you're not paying rent on a monthly 12,000 square foot warehouse in Vancouver. Yeah, of course. Wow. And, I mean,
this is pretty seasonal, too, right? So you'd be just doing it really around October. And I guess I heard you do something kind of a Christmas, too, maybe, or. Exactly. So we. We're this, like, right now we have the one. We're going to be doing Christmas, which gives us two. And then hopefully next year we can add the zombie, as long as that Kickstarter keeps going. And then we want to do a pagan one for or something that I'm not married to that one. Our team, like, keeps being like,
can we try this? Can we try this? I'm open to whatever. As long as it works. The theme works. We're all happy. The actors love it. Um, and then, yeah, we can do something for springs every three months. I'd love to do one. So that, that first iteration of, of your business, the first time you kind of failed, what did you really learn from that first failure? What were some of the lessons that you take forward with you now? Yeah, the biggest lesson is I have delusions of grandeur, if you will.
I think way too big. And I have a good group of people around me. A, I tried to do it by myself, which I thought was stupid, like, looking back, like, just not a good idea. And then secondly, I have these huge ideas that I want to get all of them in, and it's got to be perfect. And so, like, the idea of perfection, I've switched to progress, not perfection. And then the big was like, no, you can start small, build a community, and then just slowly grow within yourself, make it organic.
And that's worked a lot better over time as well. And then having a bunch of people that are better than me surrounding me, I can't do it all. I'm human. I make tons of mistakes, obviously, hence the failed business. And I just like, for example, Maris being our stage manager, couldn't do it without her because she just gets. The actors knows what they need is this go between. I can't think of all the stuff that she thinks of, and she comes up with all these answers.
Benson is our, like, prosthetics and creature creator. He makes all these huge monsters that I'm like, I have no idea. I'm like, hey, what would be like, a fun. And he's like, I'm already on it. It's already created. Here it is. I'm like, awesome. Amazing. Now we have a beholder. I love it. Wow, there's a beholder. Oh, there's a beholder. Yeah. That's all I needed to know. I'm showing up to find out who the beholder is. The deeper we get in this conversation, the more sold I am.
Nice. This is just, this makes me so giddy. Do you get burned out doing this at all as, like, a business owner? Is it tough? Like, especially this time of year? And if you do. If you do, how do you kind of keep going and get through that? So there's a couple of ways. Like, at the end of it, total detox, relax, reset, recharge kind of thing. But while I'm in it, I mostly like my versions of meditation, which are like movies, video games,
exercise are kind of my big thing. Like, I. I'm a huge acrobatic guy. I do tons of flips and tumbling on the floor and do partner acrobatics with people. Unfortunately, this summer I tore my ACL. So, yeah, it was rough when got the surgery, and now, like, I can walk again, which is great. So I'm back to walking, but it's going to be another maybe two to three months before I'm actually, like, doing dynamic movement and stuff like that. So it's not too bad.
It's like they said, six to twelve months, but I'm on the six month range kind of thing. Just with. I think because I'm so active, my body's responding decently to it. So that's like a huge thing. Just like, get some, like, flex every muscle, flex your brain, flex your soul, flex your body. Just work out, meditate, whatever. Again, it's whatever your version of meditation is. It doesn't have to be sitting, holding your palms and whatever. Lotus.
You totally can, like, play a video game and think of that as meditation. It's whatever prevents you from thinking about all of the chatter outside. And you can just, like, be yourself for 30 minutes. It's so lovely. And so, like, for me, sometimes that's kickboxing. Sometimes it's playing cuphead. Like, hold on. You find cuphead relaxing, right? I love a hard game. The harder the game, the more relaxed I am. All right, so you, like, you're glutton for punishment. Like dark souls.
I was just gonna love dark souls. Oh, man. I tried Elden ring, and that was like, that wasn't as. As punishing as the other dark soul games, but, man, that was. I don't know, man. I like me a fluffy, rewarding experience that's gonna make me feel like a champ. Yeah. Or a far cry guy. Yeah. Far cry. Far cry is so fun, though, actually. Far cry. I love far cry. Yeah, it was so good. I think it was the. Which was the one where it was, like, in Thailand. Was that the fourth or the third?
The fourth one, I believe. It's kind of like a fake Thailand. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, that was the, like, the game that was like, if this was a real thing, like, if I was inside this tropical world on these little helicopters and ATV's driving around while people were shooting at me, of course. Safe shooting. I was like, if you could create this, I think this would be everything.
It is a very immersive game. And that, for me, when I think about perils to the experience you're creating, it's kind of like, wow, if you could do an intense jungle version of that somewhere, that would be a really cool thing to do. And create an experience in, like, Costa Rica or something like that, you know, people get to go do that. It'd be so nice. Also, I think, like, booze and, like, is cheaper down there, and so is, like,
a lot of things. So, like, I just think in general, it might be an easier place to make something like that. Is that one of your biggest expenses given, you know, Canada and all that for this project is the beer? Uh, no. Um, the biggest expenses come down to, like, wages and materials and. Yeah, I mean, alcohol, too, because, like, you got to think of, like, if you ever been to Mexico and those all
inclusive trips or something like that. Like, it's like, $150, and they, like, it's like, anything you want, you get to stay, drink, eat, all for free. And you're like, how is anyone making money? Or how are we so brainwashed up here? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess what I was thinking about is, like, we have these things called D and D in a castle. I don't know if you've heard of that before, but people are creating
these sort of nerd. Nerdcations. Okay. And I'm thinking about it, like, if you have that ability to create that sort of experience for people, how cool would it be to be able to create, like, a far cry style experience, partnered up with some, you know, hotel or an area or a bunch of places down there that you could be able to do that and then have it be, like, immersive over the course of, like, seven days or a four day vacation.
I expect people to pay for D and D in a castle, but it's also, like, it's not a cheap experience. It is something that people will pay a significant amount to do and to do that and have enough coming in. I don't know. They seem pretty stressed out. Listen to that episode before you actually say yes to that idea. Just so you know, I'm not the guy who's volunteering to do it, but I'm thinking out loud. That sounds like a really cool idea to. To. To grow a business that way.
Is that at all something you would actually do? Yeah, I think the end goal for me, we're trying to. So we're a nonprofit as well, and we raise money, we get grants. That way we can pay the actors and ourselves and stuff like that, plus ticket sales. That way we can also donate money to charities like BC Children's Hospital, the Northern Dog Rescue, the firefighters fund, anything like that. What we're trying to raise money for right now is a $75,000 legitimate.
I think it's like a legitimacy report. And what they do is they check to see feasibility report. That's it. It is a $75,000 feasibility report, and they check to see if they can do a theme park version of what you want. And so they'll go and they'll map it out, and you tell them exactly what you want. And they'll, like, do all the, like, the marketing, and they'll check in. They'll test everything. They'll check the area. They'll see how much it would cost to build it.
And then once it, like, they would say, like, okay, if you charge, like, this is how much you'd have to charge. This is how many people would have to come. This is how often people would have to be coming, and this is how many staff you'd have to have and how much you'd have to pay them and how much food you'd like. They would do all of that for you and test it all out to see if it works. So that's what we're trying to go towards, because I think it would be absolutely amazing to do exactly
what Chris is talking about. Like, partner with some hotels and just be like, look, this is an experience where you come in, you pay your hotel thing, and it's included where you now go for, like, two, three days, one day. Whatever it happens to be, whatever is, like, figured out in the story wise, and you're just on this epic open world, like, driving atv's doom buggies. People are shooting at you. You got this mission. You got your little.
Your bag of, like, your go bag. Like, I. That is the end goal, is to, like, build that. So when you were saying that, I was like, yes. You're saying, like, what if you want to sign some contracts after? We can make that happen. I'm the kind of guy who's like, I would like to do that experience. And I think about Westworld as, like, I think that would be really fun to be able to go have that experience and do sort of a Westworld type thing.
Doesn't have to be in the west, but just something in that immersive, you know, open concept doing missions kind of world. Because it is like, then it's a real vacation. It's like a vacation from even who you kind of are. You get to explore different aspects. And someone who was a theater actor, I basically like that exploration. That's, like, a cool thing to do with my vacations, is go be somebody else for a little bit.
Heck, yeah. And that was a big thing about Westworld, is, like, is like, the main guy who Ed Harris played him, or the poils in his younger version, he finds a part of himself he didn't realize was there. And I think that that's out there for a lot of people is, like, this idea that we just. We kind of, you know, the idea of wearing masks he put it on like, okay, I'm in society. I've got to be polite. I've got to be kind. And that doesn't mean
that you're none of those things. It's just, how fun would it be to be, like, okay, today I'm ghoblor that the barbarian, and you just run around axing people down with, like, no consequences. And, like, just like, how does that feel? And is that okay, knowing that, like, it's safe, no one's getting harmed, you get to run around, you're getting exercise outdoors, you're like, you're with your friends, you're on this huge, amazing experience.
And for that, however long that lasts, you forgot the rest of the world existed. And I think that's something. That's exactly what it's so funny to hear you echo that, man, because that was, like, a huge point with the Indiana castle. I feel like Chris really touched on it really good about the idea of having a multiple day kind of adventure.
And I do believe that wizards of the coast has sort of paved the way with the success of D and D five ethereum, that more and more people are interested in that kind of experience. We've got so many people who play video games, and there's not, I mean, and there's starting to be more of this role playing going on that I do believe that there is going to be a demand, there's going to be a hunger for that kind of entertainment.
And it sounds like you've seen that writing on the wall, because you're already looking into this feasibility report, which is not. That's not a small. That's not a small goal.
No, no, definitely not. Well, and it's also, I think, and I'll just comment on that there, Frank, because I actually think that you're 100% right, that there are people that are going to be craving these types of experiences, especially post pandemic and especially, you know, with people moving into cell phones so heavily and being. And living in this digital world and living on screens and all of that.
I think all of that's contributing, but I don't necessarily think that it's going to be wizards of the coast that is actually going to guide us there, because I think they're moving this d and d one away from a lot of that in many, many ways because of the things controversial d and d opinion, but we'll just put it out there. But I actually think that there will be a reaction to what they're doing in five e, and that reaction will lead people to josh. Hey, I'll take it.
Exactly. So let's talk about when you started this. Did anyone call you crazy? Yeah, you get a lot of the, like, oh, like, that's good for you. Like, not quite. Like, they just don't get it right. And then until you create it, and then once you create it, then you're like, then they start to get it. And even then, unless they come, it's super hard. Like, even when you're saying, like, you read the website or you kind of like, the longer I talk,
the more you're like, oh, oh, oh, right. Like, and so it's like, until you actually go through it, it's so hard to explain to people. And when I first was like, I remember so many times, I'm like, okay, so I'm in my front yard, and I'm hammering away and drilling and building this basically giant pyramid in my front yard. And all the time, people would walk by with their thousands of opinions that are unsolicited, like, oh, you're not doing that right, or that's not straighter.
And I was like, hey, you can help me if you want. They're like, oh, no, I got stuff to do. I was like, thank you very much. Good response. Yeah, exactly right? Like, what do you do? Like, I don't want to get mad at them, and if they have good advice, advice, I'll take it. But all the time, it just felt like they just wanted to be heard. And then I got this five ton load of sand delivered, and they just dumped it onto the platform.
And then I built the pyramid around the sand, and everyone was just like, what are you doing? What are you going to do with that sand when you're done? I was like, I haven't gotten that far yet. Just, I'm going one day at a time here. Which is funny, because that's the great thing I like about East Vancouver, is when I was done, I put all the sand into little buckets out front. Was like, free sand. It was gone. It was gone in hours. That's hilarious. Whoa, that's. That is very sustainable.
Uh, uh. Lawn replacement, I suppose. I have no idea. But, like, it was just so funny. I was like, okay, I'm gonna put these out here. I'm gonna put it all along the sidewalk. And it was. It was like 80 buckets of sand. It was so much sand. And I was like, I'm gonna get in trouble. I went inside, grabbed my dog, went for a walk. We came back and half the sand was gone. I'm like, are people just walking around Vancouver with buckets of sand? Wow. You know what? You raised the value by putting it
in a bucket and creating scarcity. It's, like, so many buckets, man. There's only so many buckets left of sand. I got to get them while they're hot. Yeah. We actually did have a bucket shortage a couple years ago during COVID Is that where they were? I took them to hand it away. Buckets. God damn it. Jazz for free. The buckets alone were worth $25. There were dollar store buckets, and they were, like,
pretty big. They were, like, a good, like, I think, like, three or, like, they were, like, four liter a gallon bucket. And so I just had them there, just kept filling them with sand to try to get it. And then also, I think we put a good, like, just kind of raked the rest into the grass and hope the landlord didn't notice. So you mentioned all of these opinions, and, you know, these people kind of giving you the unsolicited advice.
What would be some of the advice, now that you've had a chance to look back, that you would give yourself in those early days? Yeah, I think the early days, the biggest thing I'd say is slow down. I desperately want what Chris is talking about. This, like, go to Costa Rica kind of thing, and, like, have this, like. Or, like, d and d in a castle. Like, I want that now, and I want it today because I think people would love it so much. But the biggest thing,
I think is that I really. Something that I used to believe when I was younger, because I watched field of dreams, was that if you build it, they will come. And I just don't think that's true anymore. With the amount of stuff that's out there. Like, our world is so saturated with a billion things to do. And even if you don't want to do those things, you can just stay inside and watch Netflix play. You don't have to do anything.
And you can be so entertained that you can't just simply build something and people will show up anymore, because it's not like there's a reason why the traveling circus doesn't just have everyone in town going to anymore. You've got to advertise. I think, the idea of just building a small community of people that like it, and then once that sells out, going to the next level and then selling that out and then going to the next level and just keep repeating that process.
Because the year that I died, I was like, okay, I'm going to go from a tiny thing in my front yard to 12,000 sqft. It just didn't work. And so the first three years, we, like, we sold out. And it was a very small version. It was like a one linear version. Then the second year was a bit bigger. More actors, more people, sold out again. Third year, grew it, like, a little bit bigger. And then now we're like, okay, I think we're at that stage
where we can take that step. And, you know, we also got the support of Burnaby. Tourism loves what we do. And so they, like, jumped on board, and we're like, hey, we want to support. We want you to be in Burnaby this year. We're like, great. We love that. And then I kind of reached out to some local businesses. Steamworks brewing is in Burnaby, and they're like, we'll sponsor. I was like, this is incredible. So Steamworks brewing is sponsoring us. We got all this beer, and so licensed.
We are licensed. We are a licensed haunt. Yeah. So you can come grab a couple of. Some mead, some brew dog, some pumpkin ale. Chris, he's not just talking about beer being given away at his event, and he's not licensed. Come on. This is Canada, for Christ's sake. He'd be shut down tomorrow. I just wanted to make sure everyone heard it. Yes, we are licensed. Yeah, yeah. And so, like, that idea, like, it's like,
the slow growth. Like, because, like, for me, and maybe it's like, the society we grew up in, where it's like, that instant oatmeal. Need it today, need it right now. But, like, I have to stop that. And so the advice I'd give my old self is like, josh, stop. Take a breath. You don't need to. Like, why don't we start with a thousand square feet? Why don't you start outside and see if people come?
And I give that advice to lots of friends who ask me that kind of thing, where we, like the way I call it, or the way, like, some of my old mentors used to call it. They called it playing business versus doing business. And things. Like, playing business would be like getting your business cards together before you get your first client. Like, you spend money on getting these cards. It doesn't give you anything. It doesn't. It makes you feel good inside, but doesn't actually accomplish anything.
And so it's like having that conversation around, like, how can I do something that's actual, tangible, that grows my business? And those things are like getting a guest, talking to someone, getting them in to give you money, and see what that looks and feels like, even if it's something small, building a website, if that's where your ticket sales are, things like that, that actually can get people to test it and give you advice on it. There's so much
in what you just said there. Yeah, man, I have had. I can't tell you how many times I've run into people who are like, yeah, you're right. Buying the business card before they have any revenue or any money coming in. They don't even have a client. And it's like, it's. It's like, why do you need a logo or why do you need this? Why do you need all these other things if you don't even have a product yet? Right. Yeah, I just think people need to hear that.
And all of them who are playing at business, definitely, let's get in the game for real. Right. But that brings me to my next question. My next question for you is, how do you get the word out about this beyond amazing nerdy podcasts like this? Yeah. And again, I think it comes down to those tangible things. Like, for example, going to, like, d and d game shops. Like, there's a place called stronghold games, and just going up like, hi, do
you mind if I put up a poster right here? Or. Or is there an event like your next magic card gathering? Can I sponsor something and just ask a couple of quick questions and talk to people through it? Once people hear me talk about it, they're sold. But if they see it or hear from a friend, they're kind of sold. And if they just see it in passing, who knows? And so little things like that where you just walk up to people, talk to nerds. Like, we've called a bunch of different shops.
One thing that I loved that I did is we took one of our sponsors beer, put it in a severed hand, put that in a tiny treasure chest with a bunch of different potions, and gave that to different people on, like, Instagram or TikTok who have some clout and were like, hey, here's a free box with some free tickets and just do whatever you want with it. Every single person was like, I've never received something like this before. They all opened it were like, I've got to put this on my channel.
And people were like, holy crap. So, like, things like that are really great ways that are tangible, ways that aren't me. Like, oh, I'm going to buy $10,000 worth of ad space, or I'm going to get my business card, or, I like or I'm going to sit back and think about my logo. Exactly. That stuff doesn't give people in the door. Yeah. You really have to know where your market is.
And it sounds definitely like you have given thought to that, because it's like, okay, you can have a lot of efficiency by putting up a poster in a place where nerds are shopping, versus 10,000 posters all over downtown Vancouver may get you nothing. Right. So it's kind of like you have to know where your market is to really be efficient with your cost per advertisement. So that's really smart. That's awesome. Well, on that note, let's go ahead and segue. Yeah, let's do it.
Some D 100. Some random rolls. So do you have a D 100 handy? I do. I got the digital one. Ready to go. Sweetsome. All right, here we go. Boom. 35. What's the best wi fi name you've ever seen? Oh, my neighbor upstairs was this lovely, lovely couple, two women upstairs, and their wi fi was fuck my dirty hole. It was so intense. It's so violating just the thought that you're like, I don't want to use that. Yeah, not at all. I'm never going to try to join that wifi.
No, I don't. And that's the thing is, I think that was the point that was obviously. And I was like, cool. That's you. You enjoy that wi fi. This episode suddenly, like, that just brought our time to a totally different place. I mean, like we said, swearing is fine, but holy. Yeah. All right, well, go ahead and roll again. All right, here we go. Next. Roll 91. One movie you can watch over and over. Who? I have a few. Lord of the Rings is up there.
I usually watch it two to three times a year, sometimes just in the background, quote the whole thing start to finish. I love it. I love that whole world. And it's like, I also think about how I felt, like, during it, like, when I watch it, and I was like, I haven't really gotten anything recently that has made me so engrossed that I'm like, I'm gonna put it on again.
And I don't know if that was my age at the time or if just movies aren't as good or if there's just too much stuff or like, what it is, but, yeah. And another one's like, 5th. 5th element? Yes. Oh, fifth element. So rewatchable. Like. It is like date number four. At least when I was single, it was always date number four. I was like, so have you seen the fifth element? And it was always no. And so I was like, I know what we're gonna do for a date because this movie's amazing.
It is like Bruce Willis back then. Fifth Element. Move. Yeah. That's a good way to, like, on a fourth date, right? Like you're like, we're gonna. It's happening, right? Yeah. It's just like, the way it's edited, too, is it's so, like, good for, like, today's add youth of like, just like, it bounces around. It has great. It's so good. It's so good. Colorful and bright. There's never a dull moment. Like, it's action to the nets. Awesome. Yeah.
Well, anyway. All right, now we're going to go ahead and go to the last section here. The last segment. Rapid fire questions. This is where we ask some pretty quick questions and you give one or a few word answers, and we'll tell you whether you're right or wrong. Dope. So last thing you ate. Hot dog. Hot dog. But there are hot dogs at this venue. There might be. Steamworks is also doing the food, so they're doing beer and food. So there'll be lots of stuff for people to eat and drink and enjoy.
Three favorite pizza toppings. I'm vegan, so. Vegan cheese, barbecue sauce and pineapple. That's how you're able to retain those lists, is because you're vegan and your blood is pure. I hear that all the time. Pure human blood. Yeah, we've all seen Scott Pilgrim. You get vegan powers. I forgot about that. Oh, my God. What was the last three books you've read? The last three books I read? One is called all about love. The one before that was a Brene Brown book.
And then I was the second installment of name of the wind by Patrick Rothfuss. Dude. Wow. Yeah. Desperately waiting for the third one. Well, no, Brene Brown. Totally. I'm working on Darren greatly right now, and I haven't read her books yet, so that's why I'm starting. But then. Yeah, I haven't read the second. The second name of name of the wind. But I did wave. Not wave. Kings. That's Brandon Sanderson. I'm finishing that right now. But the King killer chronicles. There we go.
Yeah, the killer, exactly. And I'm about to start the Mistborn series, so. So, yeah. Gonna check that one out. I'm excited. People keep telling me about it, so I'm like, all right, I'm on it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, did you read the way of kings? Yes. Yeah, dude. Okay. Spoilers for any. But, no, I won't spoil anything. All I say is that I'm on the call. I've never read it. So long ago. Yeah, I know. Okay. I won't ruin anything. All I'm gonna.
I won't ruin anything. I'm just gonna say at the ending, man, this is, like, by far one of the best books, best endings, best 1200 pages I've ever read. It feels good. Like, I felt good at the end. I wasn't like that. Like, yeah, it's. It's good. It's always nice when things end well. Yeah. So other than vegan, what superpowers would you want? Wolverine's healing. Like, I would like the ability to heal because, like, it does.
It makes you kind of ageless, and you probably lose a lot of fear in doing a lot of things. He wouldn't be like, oh, I got to do this. Not this. It's like, I can do it all because who knows how long I'm going to live. There's no fear about getting injured or hurt. I feel like you could do and accomplish so much. And again, especially after tearing my acl, I'm like, man, if I could just heal, that'd be dope. That would be so good. That would be really nice.
It's like I did this stupid thing. Especially if someone's prone to accident or injury, then you'd really want to be like Wolverine or dead pool. Yeah, and also, like, if you really kind of, like, break it down in a nerdy science way, it's like, like Dom's, your delayed onset muscle soreness when you work out wouldn't exist. Like, every time you exercise
and tear a muscle, it's healing. You're going to get so strong so fast, and, like, you're just going to get really good at stuff, like, immediately. Even just like playing guitar, you're just going to, like, your body's going to build those synapses. Like, everything is just going to heal so much faster and. Yeah, like, it's just exciting to think of how amazing any one person could be with that kind of power. Logan totally missed out on the ability to learn shit really fast.
Yeah, I feel like you would if things are healing quickly and tied your brain inside your butt everywhere. Like, I feel like you really would if you break it down and look at it that way. Wow, totally makes sense. You could learn the flute. Yeah, no, like, palaces kind of funny. To watch Wolverine playing a flute, though. Yeah, that would feel a little out of place. Go watch the music, man in New York. I bet you he doesn't. The music man. Yeah, isn't that, isn't that Wolverine on stage?
I swear he's like Hugh Jackman right now. Yeah, yeah, Hugh Jackman. Yeah. I think he's doing the Music man right now. You gotta be careful when you say Wolverine in New York. I actually think that it's a musical. Where above Wolverine. I would actually watch Wolverine in New York. Athenae musical. Can we do a kickstarter for that? It's a musical about how he's lost in New York, how he got there. I'm canadian. What do I do? Well, this was awesome, man.
Thanks so much for your time. Yeah, thanks for having me share everything with us. And how can people, if they want to go through this experience, how can they find it and where should they go? So you can go online to theemptychest.com. that's where it has all the information, has everything you need, has all the actors listed on there too. If you want to see the artists, a little bit about them as well, that'll be up there, a little bit about our sponsorship and everything, ticket prices,
all that stuff. Everything you can learn will be@theemptychest.com dot. You can always just send us a message like Josh, I saw the podcast, what's up? I'll be like, hi. That's always a funny thing that I think people forget about too is like I am the one running the back end, I dont have a virtual assistant or someone running. So when people email me questions every day, its just me and im like, hi. And theyre like, oh, your response rate is so well im like its just me.
And this is in the Vancouver area. The greater Vancouver area or Burnaby, right? Yeah. So Burnaby lives within Metro Vancouver. So its at a park called Warner Lout park and Burnaby again. All that stuffs on the website and yeah it's like a ten minute walk from the Skytrain. It's like pretty like a ten minute 15 minutes drive from Vancouver. Like it's not far at all, which is really nice. I think that'll help a lot with visibility and people checking it out.
Yeah, I'm going to go, man. I'm going to make the plans. So I'm in Seattle, so I'm going to make it happen. I'll be up there sometime. I'm super excited. Nice. Get your ass to Mars. Yeah, sick. Well thanks again, Mandez. Thanks for having me, guys. Yeah, and let's keep it nerdy. Yeah, keep it very nerdy. Ciao guys. You just finished the Bruce banner sized version of this interview with Josh from the empty chest.
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