Episode 96: Milestone Comics

most the most googled performance. It was Beyonce, the most googled athlete, it was lebron the most googled I think musician or something was Prince. It was just like showing like these are all black artists that like have have taken over you know, and just iconic history makers. It was really neat. I'll send it to you. Yeah, that's

so dope. Well yeah, so, you know, I wanted to do something special this year for Black History Month end, kind of like shine a spotlight on I think one of the most influential black people in comics, which is Dwayne McDuffie and his legacy which was you know, uh, way more than just him, but Milestone Comics and Milestone Comics. Uh, you know with just the t LDR before we really jump into it was this initiative by d C that like allowed for just black people, Like They're like, here,

we'll give you a space to run with it. So, you know, whenever I want to do something black, I I have a very short list of friends who I come through first. And you know on the top of that list is Ed Greer for you've seen them on New Negroes on Comedy Central. You have a new rebooted show we'll talk about at the end, and you know all over Screen Junkies and the Nerd Goat podcast, which we've both been on. How you doing, guys, thank you

so much for having me back. You know, I wanted to come back, and you know, I'm glad this is the perfect subject to kind of bring me back into the fold. Yeah. So if he what was your because I was on the Nerd go I was on Ed's podcast talking about my goat, which is vegeta, And I would give you one guess was yours? Goku? Oh? Yeah, did he come on before or after? Mek Shoes to fill? Actually a little tiny, little tiny pointed shoes to fill? Yeah,

I know, Yeah, No, it's I've been. Uh. Yeah, it's been interesting getting back into anime because I remember the defense I was in anime. I was kind of in um and I didn't realize this until Yester this morning when I was watching A Bunch. But like i've like since we've did krilling, it was when I kind of started watching DBC again and that's when I kind of watched a little bit of um dB Super and then I was kind of watching Attack on Titan and One

punch Man. But I was kind of out of out of you know, the loop wise because I it was came up in a discuss essentially like I'm the only one who liked anime in my last relationships, so like when you watch things together to just watch the default thing, and I think slowly and slowly anime became less a thing. I watched it now, like I'm watching so much anime. Uh And it was one of those things where I

got hooked. And now me and Brodier on our crunchy roll account and it's funny because I can see what Brodie is. Oh yeah, he's right now, he's watching Dragon Ball Super and I was like a little thug to here. I was like, all right, Brodie, but yeah, he's been watching that and he was watching Samurai Pizza Cats at y. Yeah, he's he's like going in the deep dive because you know, he's also learning in Japanese. But like, yeah, right now I've going through Mob Psycho season to catch up on

my hero and then I'm always start getting Tama. So I think that's a good way to say. That's what I'm geeking out about this week is anime. I'm deep in it. Yeah, what about you, ed, what are you geaking out about? Oh? Man, that's why I asked you guys before, because you anything. No, you know what I like to start problematic. I am from Kansas City, so I think you know, okay, oh that's a big deal on the Nerd Show. But I mean, were you born in Kansas City? I was also born in Kansas City?

Really yeah, I never knew that this all these years. I know. I'm sorry. I have no lineage to it because my dad just lived there for a year, like with a job, Like he got a job out there and we were there for a year and that was the year that I was made and born. Yeah, so that is where I was born. But no, but just I was I lived in Kansas City until I was a grown ass man and moved out here to pursue

my dreams. So my whole childhood, we were like the bottom line is when you like sports, right, when you like sports, it's one of these things where you identify with these guys, these pituitary cases, pushing each other around, ducking on each other, whatever the sport it is, you identify with this. And we weren't bad like the Cleveland Browns where we would never win and there was no chance. We were like every time we were just so close. We were just had one side of the ball wasn't

good enough. All this kind of stuff. So now the least problematic Native American names, oh my gosh, in the in the world. At least they're the King's you know. So but so, yeah, my chiefs, I'm very happy that they wont I'm very happy that they're bi racial quarterback. I'm very glad. You know he's right quarterback to win the Super Bowl? Well yep, and uh and I think

the youngest m v P but I might. I'm not get that into it, but like you, but yeah, that was what was wild is we were at my house when we were watching the game, Jakis wanted to throw it. Everyone was like, who's your did you want to throw it at your house? Because that's hilarious that you you offered up somebody to tell well, I mean he came through.

It was so funny because I laughed and I meant to text you this, but that's like this party was how I knew Jackies was type A and I was me because I was like, Yep, we're gonna get a bunch of food and when the food gets here, I'm gonna buy the food of the day of and Jakis is like, all right, I'm I'm pre ordering the pizza so that it arrives right at the second quarter. I was like, oh my god, people are great get stuff done. But yeah, we is. But it was great. It came together.

But when we were there, you know, I'm a Saints guy and Jakis he's from Chicago, so he's a bearss guy. But we're like, yeah, we're going for the black quarterback.

That's the that's the team we're going for. And it was so funny because like Teresa Lee was there, who is a forty Niners fan because she's from the Bay, Like she was the only person there who was repping her team, and everyone else was like, no, we just want the black quarterback to where And you know, and I gotta say, it goes just the tiniest bit beyond that, just for me, because, like I said, bottom line, sports, sports, sports, whatever, boring.

But like when you're when you're from a crappy little town and you know, not not dispend the city, but when you're when you're from a place that nobody cares about, and then you the whole world has to watch you for three hours, you know, That's what That's how I felt. I felt the whole world had to watch my boys. And they were all like, ah, this is boing as San Francisco, this San Francisco that like, my girlfriend is

down with San Francisco. And I'm like, look, I ain't trying to Bernie Sanders shoe, but it need to be some redistribution of these ships. You know. It says a redistribution of these championships need to take place, a wealth reallocation of the championships. Son, you know what I'm saying. So you need to relax and and vote for these young chiefs. Thank you very much. Oh my gosh. Yeah,

that was a great game. What about you, Danny. Well, the thing I'm geeking out about is hair Love, which our friend Matthew Cherry actually wrote, produced and directed, which so we are recording this Saturday, the day before the Oscars. It's nominated for an OSCAR and it's a short. If you haven't seen it yet, I think you can catch it online. We saw it in theaters because it ran before Sony actually picked it up. He did a kickstarter

that was very successful. Sony Pictures Animation picked it up and it aired before Angry Birds too, and that's how Iffy and I saw it. Um. But it's nominated for an Academy Award, and so that you're listening to this after the awards have already aired, and I'm I'm hoping that he had the best time and I know that it won. So I'm just gonna go ahead and put that energy out there. Um, and this is we're saying

congratulations Matthew on Yep, yep, yep. So the story follows dad who has to do his daughter's hair for the first time. Usa Ray is also in it. Uh. It's great and UM excited for Matthew and his whole team to be at the Academy Awards. Well, I guess this

town to jump in it today. So, like I said, we're talking about Milestone Comics and this this if I think, if anything, you may know about Milestone, even if you don't think you know about Milestone, which is you know about Static and that was a product of the Milestone Comics era. Uh so, uh, I mean what before we even get into this, what's what's your experience with Milestone? And because you were you were hip, You're like, this is this is my m No, you put it out

on Twitter. It was like, yeah, man, I talk to some black creators and comic creators. We're gonna talk about some Masstone and somebody just feel these offers. And I saw what was coming back and I was like, what wait, wait are the people replying? Well, I think I don't know. I probably jumped it. I'm even before anybody could reply. You know that the fact that there weren't in one nanosecond five billion people on there just wasn't a front

to myself. So yeah, which, by the way, I want to say that we just shout out we had clear your partner on for the Planets episode, and that was someone in imediately who when she I like posted, and I'm like, who knows? And she's like, I cannot believe you didn't ask me. And I was like, oh my gosh, you're right. I am sorry, but I think I guess we're an insistent couple. Yeah, I mean you are a non legeable couple. Y'all are like nerd couple. Girls. Yeah,

you're like nerd nerd couple of royalty. You know what, after we break up, I'll remember these, remember these loud of tory statements with some bubble head that doesn't know anything, like yeah, but yeah, I think they issue you one when you get on right. So the bottom the bottom line is I I know I love her and she gets everything I'm talking about. But Milestone was before even her experience with comics or whatever. So Milestone to me is like kind of my childhood. Like when I was

like in boy Scouts. We would go out in the woods and do the boy Scout jazz, but when it came nighttime, we bust out the flashlights and read or whatever. I would have. I would have this Bolestone comic. My friend would have another one woman, have an X man woman, have this. We have a little library in a tent reading. I'm gonna put a pause on that because I just learned something about you and I don't want to move faster. You were in the Boy Scout, Dude, I was a

senior patrol leader. I was doing it. That's another black history moment right there, like black Man and the Boy Scouts. Let me tell you something mean, Gene, I'm sure. Wow. Do you have pigs? Uh? Picks? Oh no, No, I would never allow. I met your mom's Facebook. Does she has an album that's like My Children or something that you're in there? Ye? Well, not at the bottom like

what Boy Scouts. Honestly, for me was like my mom really did try to get me out in the woods and stuff, you know, uh, to leave her alone so she can mack on some dudes. Now, basically she you know, is she trying to get me, you know, to live outside the urban experience so called you know what I'm saying, see the trees because she grew up in Higginsville, Missouri, with fishing and hunting and all this kind of jazz,

so she wanted me to get down with it. But honestly, it just taught me about like, uh, you can make anything not fun with the opper leadership. So yeah, I became a senior patrol leader stuff. I never got a Eagle Scout because by the time I was about to get Eagle Scout, I was like maybe fifteen, and I started driving and stuff. And as soon as you got a car, boy Scouts is done. You've got something better to do. Every weekend, every night, you've got something better

to do. See for US California l a kids, that was skateboard and everyone was on skateboards. Then when you got the whip and that's that's when the real skaters were made. Like are you skating the more skate spots? Are you tossing that because that was your vehic mode of transportation? Exactly? Mindo. Yeah. So so bottom line milestone to me and method Man has talked about this. A lot of people who are big in the nineties, like

grown people in the nineties have talked about this. When you could go into a combook store and see four, five, six, eight, black or so called minority lead comics all under the DC banner, right next to X men, right next to you.

Don't have to go into the back near the porn where something and I'm not trying to disk those comics that a lot of black creators got mad at Milestone when they first came out, because Milestone was like, it would be like if you and I try to make a comic, you and me, and then Danny goes gets on d C and we try to make a comic and Danny's comic on DC is blowing up. So she's a minority where minorities, but her minority comics is blowing up. Yeah,

and we mad because we don't have the infrastructure. That's what's starting to happen with with Milestone when they first came out. But no negatives aside when we were when we were kids, we didn't know about all that. All we knew was was the first time I'm gonna look at these comics and it wasn't black for black sake. It was like these people happened to be black in the same way supermanded Batman and Alquaman and Wonder Woman and and and just happened to be white, you know

what I mean. So, and they weren't just black comics that had the first gay comp The first gay character I ever saw in a comic book was in one of those the first uh yeah, the first lesbian relationship I ever saw. It was in there. The first interracial relationship I saw that wasn't inflected with all this intracurricular bullcrap. It was just a matter of fact relationship was in

those comics. So that's kind of what it meant to me, just as a primer for us, is that it was the first time I could see blackness is not like some people have called them the black and the Black comics, and that's not true. They were diverse and what they say, uh, equality seems like oppression. You're not used to it. Oh yeah, well yeah it's And I want to this is a

good time to inject this. I think I might have said it on an earlier episode, and I want to keep talking about this, but just this is an This was from an era like the nineties where a time where if you had black lead or black you know, uh, things that featured a lot of people of color and minorities, it was interminority. Here's thing. There was a black movie that was a black content and and people would treat it as if like, oh, I'm I'm I'm not black,

so I'm not gonna watch it. When it's like, no, we don't We don't look at media and go, oh that's a white that's a white thing. We're not gonna watch it. We watch it just the same. So why is all of a sudden now it's this red light. And I think that really did kind of hurt a lot of movies and why we started lying to ourselves when that industry lie went that we couldn't have black leads because they wouldn't sell overseas. And now we've disproven that time and time again. But I'm sure some people

are still trying to stick to that lie. But yeah, you you I think about Tales from the Hood. I don't know if you've watched it again recently, but that movie is a movie that if it came out now would seem like a get out, you know, because it is a horror movie that the horrors of the movie are things that were affecting the black community. The first the first story was a police brutality, the second domestic violence.

The third, um you know, just a racist, uh like um politician and hilarious to see like the dude from l a lock and getting trampled by black creatures. Well funny enough. Uh, you know, we talked about it on Who Shot You? And Joel our researcher who has also been on the show, a friend of all all different parts. She brought up that that movie came out a year after Jeff Sessions almost one, Um, we're not Jeff Sessions.

Who's the other KKK David Duke when he almost won the presidency and it's like, wow, we almost had a KKK Grand Wizard as a president, you know. So it's now we just have a closeted one burn, one more one star review. Why is my Hood orange? Scifically because he's doing a hate monger cosplay. You know, there's never any nice mangers except for cheese mongers. Yeah, I called people make cheese cheese mongers and fish mongers, I guess.

But everything else hate monger, fearmonger. Yeah, mangers get a bad y. Yeah, like yeah, you know what, we've already pushed our limits. Yeah, let's hop into it. So. Milestone Comics launched in and closed in ven It was a black owned and created comic book company that sought to

make comics that capture the complexities of black life. In other words, there's not one kind of black person in these books, capturing all of those nuances, subtleties, and complexities allowed an opportunity for young black readers to see their lives reflected in superheroes. The characters were allowed to be humorous, serious, or even arrogant in their demeanor without fear of stereotyping or type casting. Yep. And that's one of the main things that I got out of when I first started

looking at it. And it's not necessarily correction of what you said earlier, Iffy, but it's like it isn't that d C was just thinking about, let me go ahead and see how I can give these black creators some kind of Now, that was not the case. Denny's Cowen had become sort of a star artist at d C, so that was that in. Dwayne McDuffie had done a little work for Marvel and a little work for them

as well, so they were kind of in the machine. However, what happened was Dwayne and Christopher Priest wrote a lot of the background stuff. The guy who reinvented Black Panther basically Dwyane, Derek Dingle, Michael Davis, somebody else I'm forgetting right now. They got together as a collective and made a comic book Universe like on spec and then walked it into d c's offices. And to d c's credit,

they didn't just throw the fools out the window. You know, they were like because they had done so much work. So just I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it shows you how much preparation. Also, some history that I want to add to it, and what might have helped their cause is this launched in which was one year after Image Comics launch, which means that was one year where they watched some of the top comic creators

dip out. Because they did so, I think DC was like, oh, we don't want Image Comics part two, let's jump in on this. That's an important piece of context because that that is a time when it just dawned on everybody that comics aren't from two companies. Yeah, comics are from

everybody if you have the proper infrastructure. So yeah, that was That's an important piece of yeah, because I can't imagine what they would have hated more than one other one, because like you were saying, they established and that's what's so interesting. And this is I think how this whole series is gonna end up going is me taking elements of this and sprinkling in it today and like hopefully

dropping help acknowledge to anyone listening. But that's the important thing is because I think a lot of times and you know, me and ED know this a lot because with comics and comics, we talked to other young comics and black comics, and there's idea where it's like, you know, there are more than one way to do anything. But I think one of the most important parts of making honest work happen is becoming that type of undeniable where it's like they bunch you on the team so like you,

like you, you can't ask. You have to demand almost where and when you're in the position to demand, that's when you can make change happen. And that that's kind of what I was saying when I said that they came in with whole bibles, to big fat bible stack of backstory for all the characters, possible story arcs, that they came so prepared that you were gonna have to throw them out there, out of there with all that work done and with all that potential thrown out And

just think about how people used to pitch books. I guarantee you that similar level. White creators didn't have to come in with it all the way done. That's still today like to not to change this thing. But like we've talked about, Yeah, we were talking about me selling my show, and I had my entire bible. I had ten episodes mapped out, I had five season art like what each character's season arc would be, and I sold it.

But you know, and they paid for my bible. But I can guarantee someone has sold out the studio like, well, it's a guy, but his farts talk and uh, it's like six seasons adult Swim. I will. I've seen and not to be too critical of of of women creators or anyone else, but I have seen the letter that Lena Dunham wrote that got people so interested in girls.

And it's tight, but it's light. It's tight, but it's like, well, and I think the way to look at this, And it's so funny because I always come at it where they like, look, I'll even look. I'll even come from your side, and I know what happened. I know you aren't actively like I'm trying to choose one over the other. But what happens is it easier for you to see potential in someone that looks like you, because they're like, oh,

they're just like me than a person of color. So then they have to show you all this potential that you now at this point, it's like I can't let that get away. Like you said, with all those Bibles and all that stuff. It was almost a threat because it was like, all right, you don't really like this, we're gonna make this. We we haven't ready to go. So they d C was in the position where they had no choice. Absolutely, I agree with that assessment very much.

And again it meant a lot to us kids because when you looked at the comic book characters, people of rand this pointing to the ground, but Black Panther is a genius, kung fu, super rich king of a super future place that you get to be a black character for that super hard skin ghetto superstar hero, all this kind of stuff like I don't know about that, you know what I mean, And like all yet, you either have to be the paragon of virtue or somebody who

literally did crime fighting for money, and it was almost no in between unless you wanted to carry Captain America shield like the Falcon did for fifty years or something, you know what I'm saying, unless you wanted to be sort of a valet for a white character, or like Ebony White in the in the old Will Eisner Spirit series, where he literally looked like straight Sambo style, So we got Sambo style Super King in the Future, or Negro who gives says, give me five dollars some to get

Debo saving you in the Hood character, which is what Luke Cage was. Yeah, that's a whack diaspora of blackness to be choosing from. So that when you picked up a Milestone comic and so one of them was a teenager. We're gonna go into all the characters when I was a teenager. One of them a Republican, one of them a lawyer, one of them is a technologist, one of them is this. It's like yeah, all right, oh yeah, And we're gonna really hit Static because there's something very

important of static. Uh, and we're gonna do a Static episode because he gets his own episode. We're going to uh, We're gonna take a quick break and then we're gonna jump into Milestone Comics. Hey, Hey, how are y'all doing? Welcome back to Nerdificent. I'm if you whidy ways sitting across from me as Danny Fernandez and sitting in with us is friend all around superhero of podcast and you know talking head shows on the internet and hilarious comedian

Ed greer Na. That's a lot of stuff. Yeah, yeah, I want to get it all so people know, you know, so it is. It is so funny because like we talked about this before, but people know you from a thing, so they'll always say a thing when it's like, but I do other things. If he's from BuzzFeed. Actually you know, I'm an actor to you know, it's funny time. I hope people get hung up on something they saw you do,

like one time or something you remember of time. Like I used to go to the comedy store and when I was waiting to go up, I would draw so to get the mcs start to bring me up. This guy, hilarious guy, great artist. But nobody wants to hear that right before you trying to make him laugh. He's about to make me bust up here, great artist, you know what I'm saying. And coming up next to the stage, it's in van God, you're doing like slam poetry. I think it's the other way that you're like, yeah, he's

really vulnerable and wrong. Oh my gosh. But yeah, we're talking about Milestone and we're about to jump into the comics.

But one thing I definitely wanted to talk about that really is a standout in this like awesome kind of power move they're able to pull with d C is the fact that even though they were published through d C Comics, they did not fall under d C Comics editorial control, which I think is very important because there's a lot of times you have black things, but the people you know making the decisions are still white, and there are and it's not even necessarily Sometimes it's not

even necessarily that they're like actively trying to prevent anything. It's that they just don't get it. And I've noticed in um some of my working relationships. Obviously none of the ones that I've done recently are on right now, But I feel like when I say it like that, it makes it seem like that, but I'm not. I'm

just saying I'm trying. It's just one of those things where you're trying to make a statement about working relationships and you don't want anyone who happens to be listening and working with you to think they're talking about just if you think I'm talking about you, I'm not. Maybe, but like there's this you know when when when the way you process create, the way when the way you create and process you know, the information that you use to create, and the default is whiteness, and it's coming

from a place of blackness that maybe hilarious. You know you you you'll be like, oh, this isn't funny, and it's like, no, you just don't get it, like no one know. I think a lot of times, a lot of especially if you've been established in a comedy or as a creator, you don't want to admit that you just don't get it and you don't know what the funny thing is, so you tell yourself, oh, it's just not funny. And I think that's what causes a lot of edits a lot of reasons that, uh, people of

color are just portrayed either to perfect or horribly. UM. I have a friend who remained nameless, who wrote on a very popular show. UM and he came in and

he was black and there was a black character. And he remember him telling me one day and I think I've told this story before, where he was like, oh, I know why this character is underwritten is because they're always so afraid to show him in a way that they feel might come off as racist, that they don't do anything at all, which is worse, you know, actually

very common. Yeah. So, and I think that's that's the importance of having the decision makers be black, because now you have people who are confident in their decisions that are like, yeah, that's fine. Yeah we can show a flawed black person because I a black person, know this isn't offensive, because that we have to show, like you said, the diaspora. And what's what's really wild about all that is just to just put to wrap up this part of it is that we as black people, we as minorities,

people of color, whatever, whatever. The buzzword of the work is, Uh, we have a PhD and white Tollogy. I knew you were a poet, so vulnerable but said set the way, so seductive, so vulnerable, so vulnerable, But yeah, we have a PhD in white allog just to get just to

get along. Yeah, so when we have to write Superman, I can write up up in a way with the best of them, but you might not be able to write what Jefferson Pearce is going through as black lightning, and that's fine as long as everybody admits that, and people kind of don't just play to your strengths, try to enhance your weaknesses. Maybe it'll be great to try to learn about other cultures the way that we are forced to. Yeah, because there are definitely some white writers

who could throw down as a black Yeah. I was just about to say, because I want to say it, because every time we talk about this there I get a d M. And it's like, look, I get I'm not trying to dunk on you in a negative way. I get that you're really trying to get answers, but you always get the d M of being like, well, how do I write these characters of color and this that? And should I just send it to a I was like,

you should hang out with your black friends. You should see how they act and like, you know, really and not from a observation, like really talk to him like it because it's through connection. Because to to your point, Yeah, the the guy who wrote both Dolomite is my Name,

uh and Hustle and Flow was white. Like that that's a white directed directed bad directed but like that and it's just through Like it was surprising that knowing that both those movies he did, because it's one where it's like, all right, you might have got dolomite on on the flute, but also Hustle and Flow, which means that you you know a little something, you've you've talked to people, and straight up he wrote Hustle and Flow just to get it straight up. He wrote and directed Hustle Flow, which

is about a Memphis pamp. Yeah you know what I mean. Yeah, And it was thoroughly enjoyed by black people, and I think it's the same way. Whereas, like, you know, if I want to write on I was about to snitch on this idea I've had, and I was like, I ain't trying to blow my blow my load on the pod to your point, Oh my gosh, I was gonna say, to your point, um, Steven L. Sears, who was on a podcast with he wrote on Zena and a bunch of other things, he was actually, oh, we were on

the podcast together too. Yeah. He was saying that it's easier to write from that white male perspective because that is the lens through which all media has been told. Like that is just the fish bowl that we live in. So it's kind of like what you were saying that it's harder for them because that's all the media that

there has been has been catered to them. That it's actually easier for us people of color to write their stories than it is in reverse, because that's where we learned, Like like you know, once again, a little a little nugget. A lot of times, when you want to write your first pilot, what you're gonna do is you're gonna download popular pilots. I read for my first pilot. I think I wanted to do an ensemble, so I read through Parks and Wreck rather little community. What stories are those?

What's so the the the foundations of me learning to create our white stories. So yes, of course, but then as I move forward and I want to tell my own stories, I have the bound not only do I have the foundation of no speaking their language, but also learning to speak my language and translate it into their language. And that's that's the difference, you know. Yeah, but also but at as far as the milestone thing. Add to that the constrictions of comics. War An Ellis has always said,

comics are kind of crazy. If you think about it. The fact that superheroes dominate nine of comics is insane. It would be like if of novels were about nurses in the eighteen hundreds. Yeah, you know what, just I guess the whole art form got obsessed with one style of storytelling. It just went full boor into it, you know what I mean. So basically, there are constrictions of comics.

So like when you look at the Mouthstone Universe, everybody in the Mouthstone Universe not only has to be a unique character has to be from the black black perspective or minority perspective, but also they have to still fit into these rigid guidelines of what is a comic book. You know, you've got your teen character, which is static. Static represents uh, sort of a spider Man guy, Like like, oh, I'm just I'm a regular geek. You know, I read I read a little Tolkeien, I read a little Heinlan,

I read a little you know, Octavia Butler. I read a little this little that, and I'm a smart guy, and all of a sudden, I get superpowers. The wish fulfillment that he felt as a fan of genre fiction was almost revolutionary. And then you see like a blood syndicate. Blood Syndicate was probably the I'll leave them for last. They're probably the most unique. But then like you've got icon which is Superman, you know, and you have a hardware which is Iron Man, and so it's like it's

like trying to create with within this small structure. The fact that they were able to do so much was kind of fantastic. But yeah, so DC Comics uh just essentially had no editorial control, but they were are able to uh not publish any material they just strictly objected to. But Milestone Media, which is also very prolific, retained the copyrights of their properties and had final say on all

merchandising and licensing deals pertaining to them. And in essence, DC licensed the character editorial services and create creative content for the Milestone books for an annual fee and share of the profits. So that I mean they essentially this

truly is image walking. So they can run because they learned from that mistake and they're like, okay, well we'll give you the space, we will give you the control, because this is all like like if you just take the the aspect of them being black out of it, this is everything Image wanted they wanted to be able because you know, this was right around the era where people started making cartoon TV shows and selling T shirts.

And there they were seeing them these create uh, these characters creating being taken by their bosses and money not getting to them. So Image was like yo. And then now Milestone was like yo when they gave them it, and no, I was just gonna say, if you don't know, we did an episode on Image Comics, So if you're not clear on the history of that and kind of how these these huge creators broke away to make their own comic book company, definitely check that out after you're

done listening to this. And that was our little comic book box that was like, go do issue this this note? Baby. Yeah. Yeah. What I was gonna say is, uh, that's absolutely correct. And what's what's interesting about that is it's it's it's truly the best of both worlds. You have d C and Warner Brothers behind you, but you have creative control. When you look at what Images doing, it was even more like it was kind of hard for them at first.

They had to go through Malibu Comics, you know, for a little while, and then you see things like the Wildcats cartoon and different stuff that came out. It didn't have the support of something like d see, so nothing that image could make in other forms could ever be as big as like Static Shock. Caustic Shock has Warner Brothers behind. You know, Superman might pop up in that piece. Yeah,

so you're independent all the way. Independent image comic can't really compete with that, And like I said earlier, a lot of a lot of comics creatives right now start

getting saltinger to Mr Peanut over this situation. Right, Baby nuts, baby Nut is our new king, this baby phenomenon, stop it, you know, I know that, Like I think Grout might have been one of the first Yeah, I know, and we've forgotten about we're saying that so far beyond the baby Grout is like like when when Gay Coleman started getting too old and they added that other kids anyway, But yeah, so you know, the Milestone brand ran story arcs around action, but they would also look at race

and black sexuality. Being part of DC Comics helped open a wider distribution for them to uh just another back at Malibu Comics. That was hard to achieve, uh, And there was a multitude of other publishers launching new universe who didn't receive the exposure they could have because they

were billed as solely comic books for black people. Boom, Uh with what I'd said earlier, Um, but the comics bust in did hurt the company, and soon the founders took on more lucrative careers with other comic book companies. When and then when the sales declined, Milestone closed up shop,

but has gained like a cult like following. And you know, I think the strongest one that had survived has been Static But Milestone UH did continue his partnership with Warner Brothers and d C. So like Static Shock, the animated television series ran four seasons between two thousand and two thousand four. In the two thousand ten, DC printed a final run of the Dakota Verse UM, which basically was

the universe that a lot of the Milestone characters lived in. UH, and it was titled Milestone Forever, and it wrapped up the storylines of all the major characters owned by Milestone. UM. Which cool and all, but let's open it back up. Yeah, I bet they will. Well, I mean there's there's little drama. Yeah, Okay, which we will get into. But one of those major characters was Icon, which you were talking about. Ed. For people that are not familiar with this comic, can you

kind of give them a breakdown? Yeah, Basically, it's a it's a little redo of the of the Superman myth. But the interesting addition that they made was, so there's an alien craft. A guy, an alien escapes from his planet drops here and he's from like a weird kind of shape shifty race basically, and when the craft lands, it's like during at the Antebellum South, so it's slavery days.

Rocket lands and a black slave lady comes up to the to the to the pod, it puts her hand on it, and it scans her DNA in order to approximate, almost like Transformer style, what the dominant culture is. So they assume the dominant culture is this black woman who touches the thing. So out of this pod comes a baby, a black little baby could taken care of, and it's

like it's a Superman, but it's black. He's a black person, so he uh, he kind of has extremely long lived So when we were entered the series, his name is Augustus Freeman. He's been alive since slavery days, and he is a stone cold Republican because in his day, Lincoln

freed the slaves. So he's just down with the Republican Party all the way through and becomes a lawyer and adjudicator and a really rich man, but doesn't use his superpowers for good because obviously he has experienced a world where people kind of reject that aspect of him, so he turned it off. It just was a regular person for like hundreds of years, for like a hundred years, I guess, I'm so, was this mc duffie that did this? Yeah, yea, So this was McDuffie and Dennis Cowen, who fun fact

did the liquid Swords logo for the Jism. Yeah, and also went on to do the Boondocks. You helped produce the boon Knocks TV series, So he yeah, he went on. Yeah. So McDuffie said this, Uh, this is a quote. I try to put superheroes in situations where being strong or being able to fly or fight aren't the answers. This was in the nine interview with with the Detroit Free Press.

He said, we've dealt with team pregnancy, abortion, racism, and anti semitism, being able to hit somebody harder doesn't help you deal with that. You will not find situations in my stories where the hero overcomes a villain merely by force of strength. Usually usually you will find that violence escalates the problem and creates new problems. So was this comic if he just stayed that way? Was it problematic?

Or was it? Except like, well, what they did was they challenged some of those old school um attitudes that he had. Because in the initial I think the very first issue, even some some key kids and a girl that's with them sort of like just kind of going along with her thug boyfriend to kind of do what they're doing, and just oh no, robin a house. Oh no, this girl is involved in this robbery of Augustus Freeman's house.

And he comes downstairs and supersup and other people run away, but Raquel stays she's more or less captured by him, but she's like intrigued by him about his superness, and she's like, what's up, homie, And she basically starts to question, if you're this powerful, why aren't you doing anything? You're a black superman, what the hell is wrong with you?

And the whole book is more or less through her eyes as she sort of chastises Icon into assuming the mantle of a superhero because she sees it such a waste. And she's constantly challenging his political views, challenging his h his his lack of motivation to help his people, challenging the fact that he, uh, he's got a bootstrap mentality, but he's a super powerful alien. Of course, you think that people can pull themselves by the bootsteps. You can

fly stupid, you know. So it's it's it's was really challenging certain conservative ideals. But at the same time, the very fact that a black book, totally black controlled, would have a bunch of conservative ideals in it at all is amazing. It's about diversity of thought. Now, trust me, I don't know Clarence Thomas, but I'm just saying, you

know what I mean, diversity of thought is necessary and important. Well, it's because it's one of those things where you're kind of just kind of levying and showing like the both sides and how you may end up on this side and that side. So I mean, that's prolific, and that's and is this is something I'm probably gonna repeat, but that sounds like something that could be on air right

now and when people that. That is the main thing and the reason why I wanted to come on and talk to you guys about this is these people came along right at the right time, but at the wrong time, you know what I mean. They kind of out right at the right time to get their deal, but right when people stopped buying records. If you think I just got on, yeah that's great. People don't buy records, no, what you know, That's kind of what happened to them. They got on and they had the freedom. But like

that's when the boom busted. That's when the image guys unfortunately started putting out a budget of stuff, bunch of late stuff. People started putting a chrome chrome cover on everything. Look at my comics they spinning. Yeah, we got spree Wells on our gun. Yeah. So, like they came along, it's just a matter of good timing and bad timing at the same time. But also they were way ahead of their time and the diversity of thought and the like.

They took on corporate stuff with hardware, hardware, the character of hardware. And there was a genius kid who a guy like super rich guy sponsored him and said, hey, kid, I'll give you some money to go to the gifted school, and just helped him out, just a real like benefactor type, you know, white benefactor Mr. Drummond situation. And when that kid grew from fifteen to five, he ended up working at that guy's company and making all these idea patents

and ideas and all this stuff, just brilliant engineering. And he goes to his boss and goes hey, the characters names Curtis Metcalf. He goes hey, can I'm Curtis Metcalf, your your award? I made you buildions of dollars? Can they get a couple of points? And he's like, let me make something clear. You're not my family. You're a tool. I bought a tool and the tools working well, so screw off. You don't get nothing peace. And then that caused him to be like, well, damn, that's really dispectful.

I really feel bad about that. And then he starts to look into his boss's activities and sees it his boss as a super criminal who has has his fingers and all these pies. He's like a real Marchiavillian Spider type. And so he the credit metap character true to the call, you know, the circular thing of storytelling. He doesn't just launch into a thing to fight his boss. He goes and tries to tell the s FBI, the Securities Commission.

He sends them evidence this dude is bad. And when they do nothing, that is when he creates the hardware suit, which is basically, I don't want to call it black iron Man, but let's call us let's let's call an iron man an iron man, and that that's when he starts taking on, you know, the evil of his boss and his boss and all this technology and stuff. So it's like it's this corporate battle and physical battle. But

he only did it because the system failed him. Yeah you hear that, joker fans, That's that's the actual system failing somebody. Anyway. I'm sorry, Oh, we're just getting so into it. Let's take that quick break. But when we get back, we're gonna be charged up. Like we all all our brains took a blue chee and we're back,

still talking about Milestone comics. So we talked about Icon a little bit of hardware, which is all these things are exciting and in the end, because these all sound like great shows, but there are rights things because everyone who made it do retain the copyright, so and a lot of these people this was the nineties, there's still alive, so it's you know, and we'll get to uh. There

was that that whole rights thing. It kind of came into play with the like the closing the book on it um because I guess Robert Townsend to have a little action there. There's been attempts by people like you know, Reginald Hudling. Yes, that's what I'm thinking of, people like that to uh and maybe even Townsend at some point, but uh, to kind of redo the universe. As the copyrights are still sort of there, you could theoretically redo

the universe within. There's some I think rights issues because they try to do the Milestone universe as they did a retcon. DC makes so many universes that when they just want everybody to fold into the main team, they just go, well, super Boy punched a prism in space and not now everybody's on the same team and now you can go talk to them do whatever. So all the universe are combined. So basically they tried to do a run where like Icon has always been here with Superman,

but like that doesn't even make sense. Yeah, you know what I mean, like the two Superman's, two Iron Man type guys, the sthetic that it just didn't make sense for those people. I hate the separate and unequal or separate equal, I hate all of that. But the codea Verse really was a more complex place than the DC universe, So combining them that form of integration really dulled the

fine blade that was milestone. I mean, yeah, just the and I was just so for those who don't know, I've been writing on sci fi great Debate, so I've been literally looking at Nerds stuff daily, writing jokes about them. But I was just looking because I'm trying to say this in a way that doesn't spoil the thing that's probably going to be in the show. But like, essentially I was looking at the um the geology or is

that is that? Is that the word? I'm looking for geography, the geography of like Marvel versus d C. Whereas like d C has such weird geography, Like Gotham used to be in New Jersey, Like that's that's where it was originally stated to be. It was a city just outside

of New Jersey. There was a picture on the US map and then it became its own place, and then Metropolis is his own place, and so like yeah, to kind of echo ats point, like there's no way to fit the Dakota Verse in there, because it's already hard enough to fit the actual country that these planes leave on, Whereas like Marvel did the smart thing of like where and I guess this Stanley quote is if uh, Spider Man broke his arm in Fantastic four, then in the

next Spider Man issue, he still needs that broken arm, like he Stanley from the beginning was like, no, this has to make sense if this is supposed to be a world where d C they never cared about it. It It was all supposed to be just one off stories for all of their properties. And then when Marvel started doing it because that's how businesses, d C tried to

do it, and now it's just super convoluted. Yeah, and DC also blended other universes they bought, like, you know, other comic book universes that try to fold in, and it was just like like, like, why is shas Um running around? Was Superman like literally what It's like they just look at the point at each other, like the Spider Man me, you know, honestly, they couldn't do it, but it would be a hard overhaul and they'd have to do what Marvel did, which has had their cabal

of writers sit down and discuss these things. Oh, I think they might eventually do that in the d c U a thousand percent because those are the I mean, his film was one of the best best that came out in their new saga, along with Wonder Woman. Um So we talked a little bit about Static that you said is like a Spider Man archetyagi. He also was incorporated into the DC universe and became a member of

Teen Titans. Can you talk a little bit more about his character, Well, basically, Virtual Hawkins was kind of you know when comic books, there's always nerds because nerds supposedly are the people who read comics, and it's you know, Sara type is true and a lot of instances, and I'm glad that we're living in the years of the Nerds, you know what I mean. I'm glad we're living at the I want to say Revenge because that's a problematic film, but but like we're the years of the Nerds with

a z on it baby, it's hip hop, but yes. Uh. Virgil was like a nerd uh person almost like how they're trying to do Billy Batts and Shazam now. And now that I think about it, a person who dreams or or would like be like us dreams of power, fantasy dreams are being super and then you mess around and get super, you know, And that type of personality

has a different reaction to becoming super. There's a different sort of responsibility because they're they're um, they're familiar with the fiction, you know, they're familiar with the responsibilities of it. So he didn't have to get taught that you have to go be a superhero. He knew he had to, but it was also still a problematic And it's also like, you know, your black mama, don't don't aunt aunt May went to sleep at seven and didn't know what was

going on. I think you could go do everything. Virgil had a black mama, so it was a lot of machinations to get out of the house to go Yeah, well that's and that's the fun of it, And I like it's there's everything. I know, there's no way to really make this pop off, So I feel comfortable just openly talking about but like, after watching Black Panther, I went home and wrote a pitch for Static. I wrote,

I made a whole deck. I like broke down the characters, like I was ready because I just had a contact. I couldn't like do it. And it was kind of and it was funny because the whole idea, the whole energy around the pitch was guys, this is y'all Spider Man. M this is y'all Spider Like. That was the pitch. This is y'all Spider Man. Like no, no, no, no, look at home Coming. You don't watch it come back? This is your Spider Man and so like and so.

And that's what makes Virgil so cool is because you know, to go back to that old, old old at this point now Donald Glover quote where he's like, it was so weird that people didn't think Spider Man to be black, that they didn't believe that there's a black kid from Queens without parents who's really into science. You know. That is if you took the hero that everyone loved out of it and was like, this is the elements of a kid. That's that's what makes it more offensive is

you would paint that as a black kid. You're like, oh, he doesn't have parents and he's in queens. Oh yeah, yeah, that's that's a black you know. But but you put a character that everyone wants to be and then then all of a sudden it was like, no, that's definitely a white thing, and and just just really quickly about his his overall story. Bottom line, he was a nerd kid, his friend was a big jock. His friend was getting outside pressure to do gang stuff and ended up in

a thing called the Big Bang. Now, get your minds out of the gutter or out of space. The Big Bang was an event where all the gangs of Dakota warrior style decided to get together and fight. Now, they may have been pushed into that by other forces, but the bottom line is that together to a big fight.

And at that big fight, the cops had wind of it, and this secret organization that I'm forgetting now had wind of it too, and so they thought, well, let's just eliminate all these fools, and or let's drop some stuff on them that will pacify them and ruin them, but as a super special mutagen. Basically, the bottom line, all the gang bangers are fighting warrior style, like can you dig it? Imagine that scene, can you dig it? And then the cops show up throwing gas canisters of super

mutagen at gas and it killed everybody. People just died. It was horrible. It's like the nineteen seventeen. It was horrible. But the people that survived got unpredictable superpowers. And Virgil had gone to the Big Bang to try to save his friend and that's how he was exposed to the gas. So he got superpowers, and a multitude of other people in the city who were not heroic types, were not a nurse in the fiction, were not good people, you know,

got a lot of powers. So that became the Rogues, Galleries and all the different a lot of the other characters in the Whole Mouths universe. And Blood Syndicate. Yes, absolutely that they were a street gang that I think the majority of them lived for some reason. They had something something in their makeup. A lot of their members died, but a lot of them lived. And the Blood Syndicate were unlike Virgil, they didn't have a lot of book learning and all this jazz. They were just a straight

up street gang that was I think. They were called the Paris Bloods and they were trying to take care of their little patch of land. And so they went to the gang like the warrior style to do their thing, and the mutagen got on them. Uh, they became a gang with superpowers. So they want a gang would do. They went and beat up their enemies and then but the thing is that community started seeing them as like, well, y'all got all this power, why don't you help us?

You know what I'm saying, Yes, we'll give your gang tribute, that's fine, but help us please. So then they start busting down crack houses and stuff. And then but unlike a lot of heroes, they would take the money they burned up the crap. I could take the money. So yeah, it was like when I when I was just think about reading stuff like this when you're ten, when you're twelve, when you're fifteen or whatever. Just think about reading something

like this at that time. How it like in forms your mind as to like, all these concepts can go with reality. It doesn't have to be so so so sucro, so so saccharin, so fake oology. It doesn't have to be that. It could be reality, reality and the real stresses of life. But again, who would bring that to the table. But minority creators, you know, because we have to deal with reality while we're you know, we don't

have sabbaticals to think about all our projects. We don't get to backpack in Europe very much and think and to form who we are, you know, really get into it. We don't have a lot of time for naval gazing. We have to deal with real reality while we're trying

to make our dreams happen. So that was it. And I didn't want to shout out one last comic before we start closing up, which was Zombie with an Axe, and it was about a Korean American scientists, so that that was cool because it's like, you know, and that's one of the I think lessons I want to take away from all this where it's like, you don't have to just stop, which uh with skin folk, you know you can, you can you can branch out without and also use that ability to represent others, uh, which I

thought was real dope. And they didn't stop at that, And they also they didn't stop at black black people weren't perfect. In This and the and the blood Syneticka comic, they find out that one of their compadres who's a male. They find out that he actually got super When he got superpowers, he changed his sex because he was a woman and he always knew that he was a man. So when he got the power or yeah, when he got the power to change himself from biologically female to

biologically male, he took that chance. But when people found out that he that he was that way, there were some problems. There wasn't always automatic acceptance. One of the team members was was Puerto Rican and black I think named Fade, who was like sort of an intangible vision type character and stuff who was gay and was hiding it. You know, There's a character called Flashback who was a

literal crackhead. And I know how funny that can sound, but you're trying to do supermissions, but you're trying to squirrel away some crack too. I mean, just the problems that I just keep calling me man, you know that that whole thing to trying to be a superhero, that's straight up on crack That Another member named Boogeyman, who was a rat. He had turned into a humanoid rat

when somebody comes in takes their powers away. One day, they find out he's white, and they they're very prejudice against him and try to kick him out of the group before cooler heads prevail. So you know what I'm saying. So it's just it's not about how black people are so perfect and white people are so evil and no, no, no no, there's anti this and anti that, anti blackness from black people, anti you know, uh, anti poor people's

sentiments from black characters are ostensibly black characters. It was so complex, it was almost like a gad to die. It was too complex. The world wasn't ready for it. Right, Oh, man, that's that's freaking beautiful. So director of House Parties Ladies, Man Baby Kid Ready Hudlind Uh in two thousand and eleven, organized a launch party at Golden Apple, Los Angeles down the street UH for his website. Dwayne McDuffie, shortly following the release of his animated adaptation of All Star Superman,

was scheduled to appear at the event. Cowen would be there too. McDuffie tragically passed a day before his scheduled appearance, and the loss Uh the launch party turned into a memorial for McDuffie. Hudlind said it was supposed to go from seven and nine end up starting at six. As soon as I got there, there was a mob around the block and went to about eleven o'clock. It just kept going and going. At a certain point, it seemed like every black creator on the West Coast was in

the room. We all gave remarks about Dwayne. It was a celebration, joyce, it was all these things. Golden Apple had ordered all these extra books for the event, and by the end of the night, the stocks were bare. You could not find a copy of Black Panther or any black character in the place. Was just stripped. That My biggest regret in life is that I couldn't be here.

You know that that this event has passed me and I couldn't have been there because I mean, like, like, there are a few events like this that are just moments that you missed. One of those moments was when Carl and Lamar flew out to S and L for Eddie's Uh he was at the after party, and I was like, Okay, y'all couldn't give a memo, Huh can

get him, you know? But yeah, so. But a couple of weeks later, many of the same names assembled at a more traditional memorial for McDuffie, and after the event, Darek goes to Dennis and myself and says, it's been too long. We have to restart Milestone. We're not just going to be a legacy company company, Hutlin said. There'll be some fantastic creations made. We're gonna certainly revive characters, but we're not just gonna revive them. We're gonna make

them relevant for the generation. And uh so, so they're getting ready to just do this reboot. But then two years of illegal battles with d C followed, and the following July, d C Comics announced the creation of Earth M within their multiverse, which would be home to the earlier Milestone characters as well as new ones, and one or two Earth M Imprint titles would publish annually, as

as well as mini series and one shots. No further developments took place until October two thousand and seventeen, and that's when they would be returning in two thousand and eighteen with five titles, including Milestone, a new static series duo which was based on the Zombies, and two other titles, Earth M and Love Army. But then Charlotte Charlotte Fulton Dway.

McDuffie's widow, who had inherited his fifty percent share to the original Milestone, sued in August two thousands seventeen over being excluded from the revived company despite the new Milestone taking over the original Milestones. I P. So that's kind

of where it kind of lasts. That's the last we've kind of heard of Milestone, and that's kind of why I think a lot of Milestone stuff And you know, there's people were trying to people were asking if Static would show up in the Black Lightning series and stuff what but but now but it's issues like that because yeah, they do all share part of that and now they're kind of dealing with that. I hope to see some

more of them in the future. Uh. It's it's one of those things where I think it'll get worked out once they decide, once they know and get some good development on some of the One thing I gotta say though, this, I like Reginald Hudland. I know reginal Hudland. I have had meetings with Reginald Huntland. I have been attached to projects with reginal Hutland. Okay, I'm ready to say it. Reggie. The only part where Reggie's wrong in this is that

every comic company is a nostalgia business. All of these storylines in every single one of these comic books that are sixties, seventies, eighties, closest to being of now a civil war. Civil War was was published in Marvel and like two thousand eight to them six. I'm like, at so that's still fourteen years old, but almost by the time it gets on screen, so it's like twenty year old and thirty year old and fourty year old. Things

are literally what we're building these universes around. So the milestone comics that from my goofy youth as is, are revolutionary, as I have just elucidated just now you know what I mean to this podcast, so you can see that they were far ahead of their time, which means they write on time for right now. All this because concept of updating them, I just think it's not it's not

necessarily wrong headed. Obviously there's gonna be some modifications that have to be made, but to say that they need an overhaul to be palatable to people of the now, it's a little to me, a little silly. Yeah, I feel based on everything we talked about in this episode. I think you can almost put Icon out as is a black Republican, you know, with all the infighting in within our communities now, you know, I think across people

of color, not just black people. Just imagine him having to go somebody asking Icon, how can you still be a Republican giving what's going on right now, and him having to give an honest answer or do something with the superpowers to change that. Just imagine that. I also want to say I might be working on something that has a black Republican and that started before this conversation. Well, I just want to say that full disclosure. I'm about

to write a Blessed to Get movie tomorrow. Also, speaking of um, if your sci fi is a great debate, Reginald Hudlin shared my great debate video, So he will always have a soft spot in my heart. And also he follows me and is great. He's a brilliant person.

No I know. Yeah, So it's at that point I just think it's like we kind of get told that we have to change so much that even somebody as much in the industry as him and as great as him can be kind of told a couple of things of a few too many times where they kind of seep in and I just think he knows that we

could drop these joints right now. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna call him bout this, like, hey, Veggie, come on, we can tell you all right, well, uh, it's time to say goodbye to everyone and you know, get get get back to getting where the getting at where people find you. Did you hear that slurp when I was slurper dumbant? So that's not what I was. I was just trying to cut off if before he said something that we'd have to cut off anyway, Okay, you know what you'd

have to cut off? Where can we catch you at? You can check me out on Screen Junkies at eleven Pacific standard time every Monday and Tuesday. It's YouTube channels got about seven million subscribers. We talked about pop culture news and I seem to be the Minister of hot takes over there. And you can also check me out

at ed Greed Destroyers on Twitter and Instagram. On Instagram you see my art and my podcast promos, and on Twitter you see my goofy thoughts and uh, last things last, I have a podcast called nerd Goat Podcast where we talked to interesting people like yourself about their favorite fictional character. I love it. It's going strong. We've got a strong Patreon. It's paying a couple of bills every month. It's like

it's like a real, real thing. But last things last, we have a thing called reboot It, which I'm very proud of. It's our YouTube channel. Me Billy Business from Screen Junkies and my Tuoka, patres, Ron Swallow and Bill Costanzo from nerd Goat. We're sit in a room and John Peters, the legendary producer, has put us in this room, and he gives us a dictate that we must reboot Back to the Future in an hour. We must reboot James Bond in an hour. We must reboot Star Wars

in an hour. And we do it. We do it in an hour and one take, one continuous take, no editing, and it's just it's a fantastic thought experiment. I would really like people to check it out. Reboot it YouTube page, reboot it. Love it so cool. Um and I need to come back on nerd Goats different. You know we're gonna do villains this time, So both of you guys are going to come on and do your favorite fictional villains and it's gonna Nerd goes evil. My guy's kind

of a villain, but just misunderstood. Now he's he's he's a hero. Now I'm at Miss Danny Fernan is on all the things, y'all. I wrote in a book called The Good Immigrant, which I've promoted here and there the last year. It's a collection of essays from authors of color, and now it's on audible so you can hear me.

You love my voice so much, you can hear me read my essay because now you can get it on audible, and all of the authors, I think, except for maybe just one um because of scheduling conflicts, you can listen to them read their essay. It's also out on paperback, so check that out. And if he where can everyone catch you? You You can catch me at if you wide

away on Twitter and Instagram. If the s on Twitch every night Monday through Thursday at eleven pm Eastern eight pm Pacific time on super Punch Superpunch powered by Twitch. We're doing weird stuff popped by uh. And see how many times I referenced Bible black Uh. But you know, like we always say, every week at the end of the episode and time it perfectly stay. We did