Episode 88: Yoda

like syndicated. She's syndicated, but it's like Delilah, it's always like your local, like whatever the Christmas station has turned to. Um, let me know, y'all if you listen to Delilah. I definitely did when I was like in Dallas, but I know she's syndicated all over and so she'll be like this one is out to a special someone, Um, Richard and your loved one is sending in Santa Baby, please come home for Christmas, you know whatever. And so I always do the jazz one where he's like, hey, how's

it going, y'all? This is Tony Jones over and T Jazz. This one goes out to Candice. Uh, you know this one comes from Bobby. He says, I know you're working late. Yes, come home. There's going to be a play to Rice for you. Oh my gosh. We should bring in our guys because he's also in comedy. It is writer comedian Joseph Scrimshaw. Hey, hey, hello, you also have I was listening to you talk and I know that you said you did a storytelling podcast and I'm like that so

makes sense. I mean, you do a bunch of them, but like your voice is so we have a couple of those friends. Mark Ellis is another one. Like y'all's voices are very much Yeah, he's got a radio voice too. Yeah. I spent years doing theater and then when I started doing podcasts and be like, oh I don't have to yell anymore. My voice is an octave lower than I thought last. You have the rich undertone. It's like a smooth cup of coffee with Bailey's in it. Thank you,

Bailey's in me right now. Yeah. Well, we always start our show with what we're seeking out about. Joseph, what are you seeking out about this week? I am geeking out about Watchman. But if everybody has come in and said that to you, I mean other thing I'm gonna say it. I mean every week, it's just yeah, it gets better and just sticks in your head. I think the thing that I love so much is that the that original comic book also cares about the history of

comic books. So that's what I was waiting to see. And I love that the Watchman story is using like the history of media and how like televised visual media affects people. And yeah, I think that's just like a

brilliant layering into what it is. Were you a big fan of the comics, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I read them a lot over different ages, and like the first time I read it's like cool, some punching, Yeah, some people are angry, and yeah, I did not fully appreciate what it was, and so I've read lots of different times

over my life. Yeah. I think what I really like about this last episode is Damon Lindelof went down even more than any any anime director ever of the best fan service I think anybody wants, because I think the moment that reveal happened, people were like wondering, like we're gonna see and um, yeah you do. Spoil alert you're gonna see that thing. Uh, Swan and a fine Watchman tradition was I know, I know, I love that. Every actor who's who's done it was like yep, yeah, we're

just gonna do it. Uh. Um yeah, is there anything you're geeking out about, Danny? Is there anything like a favor one of your favorite heroes, one of their like, uh, their trailer for their movie came out. Yeah, I'm geeking out about two things. One definitely uh you know Wonder Woman. Of course, I'm excited to see what more eighties stuff they'll play. I kind of want more of that, uh like really showing the decade, but who knows. I know that they also have to make it feel relevant. Um,

I think it's more playful. I'm I'm just fascinating to see what they're gonna do because it's like who is the big Like you know, they kind of did that thing last time where they tricked us about who the big bad was, so that I mean, I know we

have Cheetah and like, uh yeah, I'm just I'm I'm fascinated. Um. Also very excited that I finally got to share my news today about my HBO Max show, which like if he has known about for a long time, and like, there's so much hard work that happens behind the scenes that nobody sees just for this moment. So it was like kind of just waited. It feels like my entire life to have my show announced. But yeah, so that that was a really great, cool day. Thank you, thank you. Yeah.

I mean we've talked about I've talked about like my history with depression and honestly also treatment a kind of guinea pig myself. Uh, And so I'm really glad that HBO Max like saw the value in telling this story about like the humor that can be found and also just like kind of making fun of the American health care system. And you know when people say get help, you know, ask for help, Like what does that look like? Because it's not like just one straight trajectory, Okay, everything's

sunshine and rainbows. I asked for help. It's like a lot of a lot of dark humor and failure along the way. And so yeah, I'm excited to tell that story. Thank you every single person that shared that and wrote me. But today we were talking about something that I've been seeking about technically extremely a lot into the Internet we're talking about yoday. And also I'm a slide in baby Yoda. As I'm a slide I'm gonna slide them in there.

Still don't know if it's everyone says him? Does John Favreau refer to him as the child the doctor, the creepy perhaps cloning doctor. Dr Pershing says him, Okay, wow, So that's why people have been leading with that instead

of the normal reason that people say him, which is sexism. Yeah, because the first couple of weeks of the Mandalorian, I was like, uh, well, this would be cool if it actually turns out to be a girl, like nobody expects it, and it was like always taking care of this little girl, daddy daughter, like whatever. So I'm still holding out of it. Yeah, it is absolutely possible that the doctor did some bad readings for the brief time that they had with Yoda.

This is like when I adopted my cat when I was like seven and they said it was a girl that we took it to the vet and they were like, no, it's a boy. I did the same thing. Really. Yeah. The cat came to us on fourth of July and we named it like a Liberty bell and then like the nope, and changed the cat's name to uncle. That's so funny. Um, So, I guess you know your profile pictures you with Yoda. Would you say that? That's like?

What is your connection? Why do have you watched onto Yoda? First? Like, I think Yoda just spoke to me as a child and I had the action figure and I thought about him a lot, and you know, a lot of the wisdom certainly came through. But then when I got to be an adult and tried to reflect, like why did he grab me when he was when I was a kid. I think the way he's introduced in Empire strikes back where he seems weird and kind of grabby and like he's kind of acting like a child, but he is

secretly wise. And I think that's the way a lot of kids feel like. They feel like they're kind of acting out, kind of being a weirdo, and people are like, can can you? Can you shut up and take me to the real important person, the adult? And then is a kid you feel like but no, I I'm wise, I have things to say. And I think that's why,

especially when people are young, they connect with Yoda. He's a secretly wise, Weirdoh yeah, and kind of like a prankster to be honest, there's like so much humor filling him. And I think this is the best time to interject because there's a lot of uh, you know, debate because people get mad that they call the child baby Yoda. No one cares people and but I but you know, it's because Yoda's race is never just like you talked about like they they left it vague, so there isn't

a name for Yoda's race. Fans came out with tridactyls. Uh oh, I haven't heard that fan theory. Yeah, because they have three toed feet, so they call them tridactyls, which I thoroughly reject. Uh, it's gonna be every one of them is a Yoda. And it's because and it's funny because like on the one level, it's just easier and simpler, but on the other other level, that's just like simple almost human linguistics, where if you the kind

of um colloquialism. Yeah, you typically like when people say, uh, Q tip, like those are all every Q tip isn't a Q tip. A Q tip is a brand, but because it's the one that's more wide clean X to clean x to band, you know, like that's just a general thing you do. So, of course the one Yoda that we've seen, the first one, will refer to the race as Yoda. And I hope that whoever writes the

movie that finally names the race just trolls everyone. It calls the race Yoda, so that all the baby And it's because it's so funny, because also it's like, um, because it's very it's such an obvious attempt to be pedantic, because if you're mad at people from for calling baby Yoda baby Yoda, you're you're purposely ignoring the fact that there is not a name for the race like your

new Yeah Frankenstein's Monster. Yeah, pedantic, Like yeah, we could say baby of the same ambiguous species of Yoda that takes up a lot of doesn't sound funa, it's just yeah, but yeah, they they are known as uh from for some people, I'm not tridactyls. Yeah, I think that's a pretty deep fan conjecture type thing. Yeah, after Yoda, but before chronologically we saw Yoda with Yattle. Yes, yeah, who also used the force as well. Can you talk to us about Yattle for people that don't know, Yeah, Yeah.

So in the Phantom Menace, we see the Jedi Council and there Yoda is leading it, and then there's just a random lady Yoda in the background, like really, like just the puppet was actually designed to possibly be a younger Yoda. And they're like, we don't that doesn't work. But how about a lady Yoda And she has long auburn hair. She does not speak in the movie. Uh, And then in uh the Legends comic books back in the day she had some adventures and was fleshed out

in comic books and eventually died. So unattracted it is. Yeah, the different legs are difficult. In that one, they're like, she got two broken legs, like she crossed the I'm not she looks like I don't know, like Mima, or she's like I don't know, about to pass out, like she's in the middle of telling a story, and then

just like her eyes roll to the back of her head. Yeah, this is also a good time, is you you've done collider and screen junkie stuff, right, And I can tell because you talk like a movie nerd, And I say I would love because you're not because you say movie. Then the year which is something I always forget. Phantom Menace and I was like, yeah, that that's that's that's

how you win. I could never survive on those because I'm so bad with years, but gosh, yeah, that um Phantom Menace was I mean, what are your you know, sidebar? What is your general idea of the prequels? You know, I've gone a long journey with the prequels. Bottom line. I do think there's some rough writing, some rough dialogue, maybe some rough c g I here and there. But the more time I've spent with them, I have problems

with the execution, but not the movies. Lucas created really specific theme and ideas, and I think it all ties together into a really great story and adds a ton to the Star Wars mythos. So I'm a big prequel fan. At his voice, like and it's even the stuff that I like, I'm not sure about that, like Yattle, Like I was like, why is there a Yeattle? What the

deal with? You? Just so angry about it? And I was like, there's a lady Yoda and her names Yattle, and she's got weird chicken legs, awesome, what's not to enjoy? I do love the fact that George added another person to the Yoda race but still was like, we're not going to give a name real attention to the Baby Yoda thing of whether or not we're going to discover because Lucas kind of kept wanting to explain things, and he added Yattle, but he still didn't want to explain

the race. So it's been one of the really really hands off things in all of Star Wars. Um. I just love the wire reminds me of Dragon Ball with like Goku goten Gohan, Like, I hope they keep doing that. I hope Baby Yoda is something with Yoda Yattle's saying. It's like basic on the naming function for both Yoda and Yattle. It has to be why vowel d vowel Like yeah, like if it'd be weird to change it now rule of threes, we have to keep it going.

So maybe, yeah, how I would love Yado Yeddi Yeddi, Yeddi. Are you Yeddi? Oh um? So getting back to the creation of Yoda. So, the puppet version of Yoda from the O G series was designed by Jim Henson, voiced and performed by Frank Oz. The character went c g I for the two thousands prequel, Oz recounted how director Ryan Johnson courted his return for The Last Jedi that said quote, we had lunch and Ryan asked me if I wanted to be Yoda there, and I said sure.

I thought it was c G I. So I was shocked when I found out they really wanted to do the real Yoda, because that's a huge mass of undertaking. But that's what they did. It just began with Ryan, and it made sense. You couldn't have c g I Yoda with Mark Luke because Luke wouldn't have a c g I Yoda. The only Yoda Luke knew was a puppet character. That's so sweet. Also, same thing happened with Mandalorian. I remember, um, I'm forgetting his name, the older general. Yes,

I know where you're going and it's beautiful. Yeah. Do you want to tell them the what he said? Yeah? So he I mean, he said a lot of things about how beautiful the puppet is. But there's there was alleged report that they were wondering whether the puppet was working on set and talking about should they c G I, and apparently were hurts like your coward? Yeah, yeah, that was so funny, so great. So this is I don't know if you know this fact. George Lucas had originally

conceived Yoda's full name as being Mint Yoda. Yeah, okay, um. And then the makeup artist Stewart Freeborn based Yoda's face partly on his own that's really cool, and partly on Albert Einstein's, which is not very I can totally a thousand percent see then also not very flattering at all. Um. In The Phantom Menace, he was redesigned to look younger. He was computer generated, as we said, for two distant shots,

but he actually remained mostly a puppet. Yeah. So the Phantom Menace he he was a puppet for many years, and then they needed him to be digital for Attack the Clones for his big lightsaber fight, and then they went back and put digital Yoda into Phantom Menace. So if you buy the Blue Rays, now we're watch him on Disney. Plus, you're not going to see the the puppet from Phantom Menace. He's all all the time, and

any prequels. Now, that's so interesting. I don't know why, I guess to match it, I guess I think so in that that that puppet was interesting. Okay, um, yeah, so this is just finishing up on what frank Oz said. He said, people don't realize that A great, a great part of the reason why Yoda works is because of Mark. It's because if Mark doesn't believe in that character, nobody else will. What he does there is extremely important, always has been. When we got together, it was just like

old times. He never changed. He is just a wonderful guy. Very funny too. People forget that when you have c g I you're looking at a tennis ball. Yeah, I mean there's something to having frank Ozz literally being right there, like mastering a puppet. Oh yeah, I mean I did.

There was an old show on Fox called Son of Zorn, which it was a a live action animated show with a Heman style character that was animated, and uh, I did an episode and it was my buddy Dan Lippert, who's like six something like has to be like, I don't know his actual hype a six three six four, And he was wearing this all silver suit and then he had like the like a kind of eyeline on his head so that people would look up and I was like, yeah, this this definitely changes it because like

I'm not looking at him and I'm looking at my friend in a weird silver suit, So so I can imagine like it's using like those puppets probably give you a better performance too, because especially if you've ever done anything like you know, hyper We'll do had like perception check of Perception Studios and now does it on their own, where you would do dn D with puppets, and after a while, it just kind of fades away and it

feels like you're, yeah, you're interacting with a puppet. Yeah, I mean, I think puppets are so much better than c J I. But for Empire Strikes Back, I think there's that such credit to to Mark Hamill, because you know, sci fi and fantasy wasn't as big of a deal, and it certainly wasn't a big blockbuster movie to be taken seriously and like Star Wars breaks the mold actually having good effects. And then suddenly Mark Hamila has a

chalnge like you're not Harrison and Carry. You're gonna be fallen in love and you're gonna be alone with the puppet for most of the movie, and it's going to be deep philosophy and it's gonna ride your back? Could you make everyone take that seriously? I don't think people ever give Mark Camila enough for what he did back back then. So can you tell us what we know about Yodo? Like a little bit of his history. I know that he lives to be nine hundred apparently his

height is blow to be a half feet. That's around where they are. But like, I just don't I don't know. I'm moving on. I guess what do we know of his lore before he meets uh Luke? Yeah, so it's a there's a little bits and pieces in modern cannon. So you know, there's the Legends of Star Wars, which there's all these comic books and various books that have been written in the years before Disney bought it, and then two thousand and twelve they buy it and say

we're going to ignore that and call it legends. You can enjoy it if you want. And then there's modern Star Wars cannon. So were those written a Star Wars official Yeah, they were licensed by George Lucas. And then he sometimes would go like, oh, it's this level canon,

this level canon. Other times you go like, I don't care that you said something different than what I'm going to say in the movie, because the movie comes first, so we kind of licensed them, but he never took them really seriously, you know, And I think when Disney takes over, they know the kind of nerds that exist now, like, oh, everybody's gonna wanting everything to be connected, and if one thing happens, it's true. So they have been, you know,

they have a story group to keep everything consistent. So within the modern canon, we know a couple random adventures Yoda had as he was growing up and being a Jedi over hundreds of years, but for the most part, we kind of catch up with him mainly in The Phantom Menace, and he is leading the Jedi Council. He's been leading it for a while, and he's the Yoda. We know he's wise and kind, but he's also kind of stuck in his ways in getting a little bit rigid.

And that's a large part of the story of the prequels and the story of the actual Jedi that they've been around for so long. Yoda has been leading it for so long that he's getting kind of stuck in his ways. In a part of Jedi philosophy is you know, you're never done learning that you should always be open to new things. And it's Yoda doesn't handle things as well as he could, which you know, you go to Phantom Menacing where he meets Anakin and he's he's a

little cold to him. It's like, how do you feel? And and Anakin's like cold, sir, He's like fear fearing, like you know, he goes in on this kid right away, and you're like, damn Yoda. Uh. And that is part of the storytelling that Yoda has is getting a little stuck in his ways and a little a little fearful, a little like overly on guard for anything that might lead to the dark Side. And is this because it

happens after Count Dooku goes to the dark Side on him. No, it's actually before Duko has left the Jedi Order because he has doubts in it. So I think that has maybe affected Yoda because he's that's his padawan of Doku as his padawan, and Doku basically said like, I don't think the Jedi Order is actually working well. You're two in league with the government and falling what they do instead of just listening to the will of the force. Duke has already got some problems, so yeah, they're probably

affected Yoda. But I mean the story that Lucas is really interested in with the government, the Republic and with the Jedi Council is that he just doesn't like big organizations. And you go back there, like he had to leave the Directors Guild because they were fighting with him about where the director credit goes on Empire strikes back, and you know, he's an indie filmmaker who kind of made one of the biggest things ever kind of on his own.

You know, he got distribution and all that. But so then he goes back to tell this story and what do you know, A lot of it's about big organizations eventually get all crusty, ridgid and full of themselves and fall apart. Three adventure movies about that. Do we know how or when he joined the Jedi We don't know

details about that. The best thing that we can kind of infer is because he is says he Yoda says he's nine years, nine hundred years old and has been training Jedi for eight hundred years, that he joined sometime in before he turned one hundred and baby Yoda is fifty years. He has fifty yeah, yeah, So that's really interesting. So I don't know if Baby Yoda is suddenly gonna

be like I've turned fifty. Hello, let's discuss literature. If he's suddenly going to be like totally advanced, that's so interesting because yeah, like the introduction of baby Yoda at fifty just presents so much information and questions about the race, because if at fifty you're still basically infantile, Like, at what point do you when are we going to see teenage? Teenage?

I hope that season two of Men. Also, somebody tweeted and said, like, what if when baby Yoda starts talking, it's normal and then um, and then regular Yoda like just had to stroke or something. Yeah, it'll also talks that way. Okay, never mind, maybe that's just a part of the species having strokes. Um, we have to take a really quick break and then we're going to hop back into more Yota and of course me trying to

shoohorn in Baby Yoda as much as possible. But first we wanted to talk to y'all about Audible, which if he I actually use a time. I have so many books on Audible. Yeah yeah, yeah, I have their membership, so oh so you're your fancy yeah, and just well I'm in my car a lot like here in Los Angeles, literally like it takes like getting traffic everywhere. It's like podcasts,

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and we're back. We're still talking about Yoda. Yes, I had just a couple more quotes that I wanted to say from Frank Oz. I mean, it's just I think we really forget that he's the man behind this character. So he said it's a four person character. I flew back and forth to London about three times and rehearse for a couple of weeks with them. It's very intense rehearsal because you have four people trying to do one thing very very specifically, so every single word, every single

move had to be rehearsed again and again. Therefore we don't take time on the set. The last time I flew over there, I rehearsed with the three guys again and then we went and shot for a day and a half, night and a half. Yeah, I mean they're having they're having I even see this now with the Mandalorian with the little puppet, but like his ear moves, his eye moves, his map, like everything has to be

SYNCD up. Yeah. Yeah, and that's it been like this grand tradition of Yoda is the ear wobble because when they made the original puppet, they're like, this looks good, but his mouth moves, his ears wobble a little bit, and then at the time it's like, what are we gonna do? And then that became really authentic. So when they made the digital Yoda, they build into the digital Yoda that his ears wabble. Yeah, So it's been great

to see baby Yoda's ears being so very expressive. Yes, So would you say that he has a character trajectory or does he kind of stay the same. Oh? No, I think some of it is implied, but it's definitely there. You know, in the prequels, he goes through the Clone Wars, he knows that it's kind of that there's something fishy that he's been, you know, drawn into something. Jedi are supposed to defend and protect, but they're kind of drawn into being warriors in the Clone Wars and just the

act of fighting sort of increases the dark side. He's trying to figure out what's going on with that. Eventually he realizes that they've been played by City as Palpatine. And you know, there's a scene in Revenge of the Sith where he says, so fail Divi, and he really is owning like, I screwed up. I was not looking at the big picture and I let fear get to me.

So then when he goes to Dagiba in between the sequels and hides out in between the prequel trilogy and the original trilogy, So by the time that Yoda shows up or that Luke shows up to be rained, he's like, I'm not sure if I should train him. Maybe it maybe it'll only make things worse. Uh. So he really did take time to reflect. And if you watch the prequels and then compare them to all of Yoda's wisdom and empire, you can't see a real shift that he is trying to be much more open and flowing and

really practice what he preaches. And a really fun detail that came out that I wanted to be sure to share. Uh, there's a book called From a Certain point of View that gives a bunch of different characters little chapters. Uh. In Yoda's chapter is kind of he's on Daga but and he's looking out and sensing everything going on in the galaxy, and he's wishing that he could train Skywalker. He wishes that Skywalker would come here because Skywalker is so disciplined and so ready to learn the ways of

the force. And then you realize he's talking about Leah and it's this great twist and if you you really watch it all, it was like, Yeah, Luke's like, I want to have adventure. I want to go out there. I want to be uh, you know, a fighter like my dad and a warrior with a cool sword and lands. Just like I'm serious, I have to take care of things. I have to be selfless and put other people first, and like she is a perfect what a Jedi is

supposed to be. Yeah, so he's like, all right, I was kind of hoping lay I would show up eventually, but I guess I'll take Luke. That's so neat. No, I definitely didn't know that. I also I'm fascinated. So I mean, if we're looking at the child slash, baby Yoda obviously is force sensitive. Was I don't remember this because I don't remember Yattle, but I'm guessing she was. Yeah,

she's on the Jedi Council. Yeah, of course she is. Yeah, but I'm like, she doesn't Okay, Yeah, you don't get to see her, you know, throw things around or anything. That's what I mean about the old Light Saber, at least on screen. So I wonder if it's just more inherent in their race species. That's the big question that Baby Yoda is teasing for people who are, you know, into this level of Star Wars of like, oh, is

that just two of those? Is that the only two that ever existed Yoda, Yattle or all of these creatures ever for sensitive of you know, there's a lot of people who think that Baby Yoda is going to be an actual clone of Yoda. Uh yeah, I know. That's the big thing is people think that that's a clone, possibly a clone. Yeah, Baby Yoda. Do you how do you fall on that spectrum of that conspiracy? I always it works in the history of Star Wars and in

the timeline of Star Wars and all that. But I always think about, like for these kind of what if, like well, how would impact the story? And I don't see how it would super impact the story if it was it's another Yoda. Yodas had his story. It's completed, there's an arc, and I think it's much more interesting if we kind of get a little sense of maybe what this race is, but more importantly, like what does it mean for the Mandalorian? You know, I think Baby

Yoda is all about Mandalorian going. I didn't really have my heart and being a bounty hunter because I'm kind of a noble guy and now now I gotta be a dad and I have no idea how to do that. But I know what it is to be an orphan, so I am not going to So I think having the the kid have his his own identity adds more to that relationship than suddenly the Mandalorian going yes, Yoda, I've looked at years old passed away like, yeah, it

could happen. They might have a good storytelling reason. But I was going to say, what are some of your favorite quotes? Oh yeah, and you'd has got a lot of great quotes. Uh, empire strikes back. I think there is a ton that you know, people quote a lot that are really powerful to do or do not. There is no try, which I think just boils down to believe in yourself if you believe you can do it, if you believe you can sell script and allywood like, you have to believe that it can happen, right, I

think that is just a great wisdom. I don't think I told. I can't remember if I told. The podcast is but Matthew Cherry, who's a director who if you don't follow, definitely do and he's a part of Monkey Pow, which is uh or he has worked under Monkey pot which is Jordan Peel's company. He tweeted months ago in the summer, sometimes you just have to bet on yourself.

And that was literally when I was going into my pitch to HBO, Max and like there are a lot of things working against me with that, and I just was like, Nope, I'm going to do it. I know I haven't sold something before, but I'm gonna. You know, it was just like this thing of like kind of giving being undeniable, I would say, And if I had had any wavering sense, I don't think I would have sold it. And I think I just went in thinking that I would. So I totally agree. But also, Matthew Cherry,

thank you for tweeting that. I told him so many times. I like it literally changed my life because it just changed the framework of changed my my brain when I was going in there, because I saw his tweet like right before I went in. Yeah, he was your Yoda. He was my own Matthew Cherry twitter Yoda. Yeah. So I think there's great things about like, yeah, just believing yourself.

But I think he also like it just kind of there's that great scene and Empire strikes back where he Yoda brings Luke to these tree cave that has evil spirits in it, you know that that evil presence that and uh and Luke as him what's in it and he says, only what you take with you, which is like such a great idea of just being mindful yourself of well, what is in any room that you go in, well, at least what you take with you. You know he's in there. If you come in with negative energy, that

will for sure be in the room. Um. Another quote I love is when Luke is asking about how the force works and how he'll know the difference between the light side and the dark side. Joda says, you will know when you are calm, at peace, passive. The Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

And I remember hearing that when I was a kid, and it's just like I was kind of Luke and like, but I want to have adventured, and as I get older, just that idea of just like, Okay, any problem you have, take a deep breath, be calm, except that you can only do the things that you can do, So you're you're passive when other people are upset, and you act

when you need to out of knowledge or defense. Yeah, And it's just like that that kind of boils down to even just like having a nice conversation with people, being a decent driver in traffic, you know, like just kind of day to day real life stuff is where

as well as deep philosophical. Also, since this is kind of our first time talking about Star Wars on the pod, I think we should really discuss the difference between Jedi and the Seth because I think anyone watching it just assumes it's good and bad when really it's a little more complicated than that, because where how it really breaks down as the Sith wants to take over completely and

the Jedi actually wants balance. They don't want to wipe out the Sith because they because the Force, the way the Force works is you need the dark side for the light side to balance. Uh Is that correct? Did I goof that up? Well? I think there is a there's there's debate, and it's definitely Star Wars is art and you can take it the way you want, and I have opinions, and in Lucas has been saying some

stuff about this that's been a resurfacing. I think that the idea of it is the Jedi do want balance in that accepting that there is light and dark naturally in the world. There's a cycle of life and death, and you know, certain trees have to die in order to be reborn and all that kind of thing. The Sith when they're like the dark Side, it's entirely selfish. They want to consume everything, so they want to be

if they want to be on attack. And the Jedi, and this is another thing that I think is is great philosophy of the Jedi are like, we are passive, except with the Sith. They gotta die because otherwise they will take over everything. Lucas himself has said explicitly. Again, audiences can interpret it how they want, but Lucas has said, bringing balance to the force means killing the Sith because

otherwise they will take everything. And that's what makes some of these quotes even more powerful to me, because he's like, it's knowledge and defense doesn't mean just never do anything, but it means only razor blade. Only get violent when you're actively stopping something evil and unnatural, like the Sith going we'll take all of it. It's not like we'll take fifty of the universe the galaxy and be evil over here and you guys have parties, they'll take it all. Well,

this was so fascinating. As I was listening to you talk like some of his quotes, I was like, oh, these reminds me of tenants of martial arts. They're supposed to us a self defense, right like that, I mean a ridge landing. People kind of use it for a

lot of different things. But I feel like he's Yodo reminds me obviously of a guru, and I feel like, um, this teacher, and um, I feel like there's a lot of elements of martial arts that's like, um, you're only supposed to You're not supposed to use it for harm unless you're you're differ Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Um. Another quote that people really means a lot to people is

the luminous beings? Are we not this crude matter? And again it's you know, it's Star Wars and it it pulls from lots of different ideas and religions, and you can take it how you want, but I think it's just a it's a very beautiful idea in the word luminous gets used a lot in Star Wars because of the power of that one moment in Empire strikes back of just that idea that we are more than the some of our parts, you know, and we are all connected. Yeah, yeah, gosh.

I was going to say some one of the books that I mentioned, so one with Wayne and dire. He has something which I think a lot of people like actually hearing this, is that he like you said, there's there is dark and light, there's good and bad, and he said, so, um, that's just how life operates in cycles. And so if you're having a lot of bad luck, like if you're just really down, you're having a really hard time, imagine that good luck is leaning against it.

And I really love that. It's like when you're like, how can I hold on for hope, I'm having like the worst time of my life, and it's like, well, if you're already down, it means you must be going up. Like, just imagine that good luck is on the other side waiting to happen. It's like waiting to take its cycle. So that's just love. It's that good stuff. That's that

good stuff in that Bernie Brown. Um, we have to take another really quick break and then we're gonna hop back into more Yoda after this and we are back. One fact I just wanted to throw in here before we move on is Lego Yoda. His mini fig was the first of their figures to be shorter than the other toys in the Lego Star Wars. Love that So

how small is Baby Yoda gonna be? I personally love the fact that Disney listened to Jon Favreau about not having merchandise because obviously that would have spoiled all of the Baby Yoda stuff. And I know everyone was like, well, it's just coming out in time for the holidays. I'm like, but it's not, though, because in order for that to happen, they would have had to have those cells, like make up the characters, the models. All of that takes months.

So you're not going to see Baby Yoda merch until Yeah. I smashed that link for the Funko Pop and it's like May of next year. Yeah. So it costs Disney two point seven million with no Baby Yota products available for the holiday season. We're going to make that up next totally, no problem, no problem. They'll make back the price they paid for lucasfilm in the Baby Yoda merch So, Joseph, can you talk to us a little bit about Clone

Wars Yoda specifically? Yeah, So the Clone Wars you get to spend a lot of time more time with the Jedi in particularly the Jedi Council and individual episodes with Yoda being a wise leader and having a little bit more of a sense of mirth and humor because that is a part of his character. But at the end of The Clone Wars, there's gonna be a new season coming out in uh February on Disney, plus a final

season the Clone Wars. But in what is right now the last season of The Clone Wars, Yoda starts hearing the voice of Quagon Gin, the Jedi played by Liam Neeson from Phantom, Menace, and Uh. Lucas had always meant to tell this story in the movies, but he basically tells the story of how some Jedi can retain their existence within the Force and appears forced ghosts or force spirits. So sometimes people like Han should come back and be

a ghost. And like this arc of Yoda is like no no in in or like Mace Window, like Mace Window didn't do the training. Uh. Long story short, UH, Quigan was very interested in this idea that if you were doing so for a selfless reason, you could retain your existence within the Force. Because the idea is everybody passes into the Force where part of the force we always will be, but you're not aware that, Hey, this is who I was, and I can talk to people and all that so quick and kind of half figured

this out. He comes to Yoda and says, I have this additional train for you to do. You have to kind of face your dark self. You have to face the possibilities that you made some mistakes. You have to face your fear of the future. And through all this training you will eventually learn to become one with the Force, but still retain your your identity. And Obi Wan learns

this from Quagon as well, meditating on Tautoween. So that's why in the original Star Wars movie, when Obi Wan Kenobi disappears, uh, he doesn't get cut in half by Darth Vader. He disappears, and later he appears as a four Spirit. And when Yoda dies in Return of the Jedi, he disappears, and when Luke dies in Last Jedi, he disappears. And a lot of this might be a little bit more relevant to Rise of Skywalker because a lot of

people think there's gonna be a four Spirit party. So if people are watching, go like, why did my random favorite Jedi come back? That that Yo to Arc and that that wisdom the end experience that you need in a a particular idea that you need to have like a selfless reason to retain your Yeah, you can't just be like I just want like being me. I don't want to stop. And the idea is they learned this so

they could help Luke finish his journey. And you know, that's why Yoda is showing up to Luke in the Last Jedi, because that's kind of the point of continuing to have your identity within the Force is to be able to help people. So everyone thinks that we're going to get a force ghost Luke. Yeah, I mean that's almost certain sense smart camels in the cast okay um but also other force ghosts. Yeah, possibly Leiah you mean no,

because she's she could have trained. We don't know, but like we know that Quigan in theory, Liam Neeson in theory could appear um Obi one Kenobi. They've got some work to do on that. But I see what you mean. Because this is the last one of this chapter, there might be some of the past. Yeah. Yeah, and in theory because Anakin pops up right at the end of Return of the Jedi, his forced spirit appears to Luke.

So like you know, everybody's the walks are dancing, everybody's partying, and Luke kind of looks off at the distance and he sees Obi one as a forced spirit. He sees Yoda and then he sees his father join him. So that suggests that Anakin has somehow learned to retain his existence. So then that your mind starts going like, I bet Anakin would maybe have some things to say about what his grandson's choices are, right, So there's a possibility of

that as well. Also, Um, Force awakens. I was such a troll and I just kept calling her race Guywalker. We have yet to see the full truth. I love just being a edge lord. Um. So between this between Clone Wars and Rebels, are those two like beloved property? I feel like I'm not as in the I'm the general fan base, but I'm not like, you know, as hardcore as you are. Do our both of those shows, which are both animated. Um, are they both beloved the same? Do you feel like the fan base kind of latches

onto one more than the other? I think they're pretty even. Yeah. And so Clone Wars Lucas was just sort of like, I didn't get to do all the stories I want to do, I want to play, and he hired this young person is his kind of padawan learner Dave Filoni. So the Clone Wars are some great stuff because George Lucas would say, like, I have an idea, and then Feloni would kind of execute it. So it's kind of

the best of both worlds. And then when Disney took over and they wanted the new animated series, Feloni ran Rebels, So there's a real connection in the Mandalorian. He's involved with the Mandalorian as well. Yeah, so there's a real like the Star Wars lore of there's always a wise master who passes on knowledge the young person, but then it's the young generations turned to pick up the mantle. Like that has literally happened in real life with George

Lucas and Dave Foloni. Um. What about Yoda and Rebels. Yeah, he pops up, uh. I think at least once, maybe twice. Uh. And there's some interesting stuff there because Yo Dig admits.

One of the big things is he admits that he made some mistakes in the in the prequel era, that he let his fear control him is a big thing in Star Wars that fear is the path to the dark side and another great kind of self help thing from Star Wars that as soon as you are afraid of losing something, then that makes you angry and hateful and all those kind of things. So, uh, that's a big part of his cannon, and that is kind of the place where he fully admits that he made some mistakes.

You actually have a quote from him here from Rebels. It says, I lost my way for a long time, but now I have an opportunity to change things. And then he finishes with the last Chance. Um so I was just like what you were saying. Yeah, yeah, And he and he guides Ezra a little bit and guides him to his destiny, that he has a specific destiny, and he sort of implies that, yeah, it's okay to fight, but you need to figure out how to fight in

and when to fight. So a lot of a lot of continuing great Yoda wisdom, but he's not in Rebels a ton. It's just one or two pop ups. If you want fun gifts, if you're sitting around going how should I communicate with friends? There's so many great Yoda gifts that express disappointment, exasperation, wanting to go somewhere quickly. One of my favorite Yoda gifts. There's a moment in Revenge of the Sith when he's gonna confront Palpatine. He walks in and he does just a little hand gesture

and two guards slam into the wall. It's great for when you're upset. Oh my gosh, I'm gonna handle this. Whoop. I think I gave I gave one of my ex is like a Yoda like Valentine. I think I said, like Yoda best Valentine or something. And now we're broken up, my dad humor. Um, so this is we talked. We kind of touched on Warner Warner her sog uh and it said, uh, that upond a bond seeing baby Yoda. Uh. He forgot. He was holding a puppet in again doing baby speak as the puppet had a song. I don't

want to do someone have video of that. I really want all the weren't hurts behind the scenes, that audio of the cowards comment. I need that in my life. His baby cous Did you see that? Someone tweeted like the combination of it. It's a combination of animals and I think there's an actual voice being manipulated in that whole mix. So this tweet is from matthew Wood. It says Baby Yoda's voice by a combination of baby samples, bat eared Foxes, No wonder So Cute, Kinka Jews, and

the sound design vocal talents of Dave Accord ps. He also voiced Baby Rohoda the Hutlet for the Clone Wars. Yeah, that's the jab the huts child. Well, and I saw the baby Java or whatever. Did you see that? Yeah, that someone did of because it was like baby like, oh no, that's like, oh shoot, who else in Star Wars should have a baby kind of thing? Yeah, yeah, but there is. It's the Clone Wars movie that kicks

off the whole series. Has got a lot of quality time with the job as Baby Rod of the Hutlet. Can I ask you a question? Why? So? Why does baby you to speak to you? Is it just the absolute, just intrinsic cuteness that you want to cuddle and take care of the baby. You know? I follow a lot of baby animals on Instagram, so yes, I mean I'm gonna be I follow a baby pig, I follow baby Fox, I follow Juniper the Fox. Shout out to everyone else that follows Juniper. Um, you know, I have my baby Molly.

I think that he has this animal quality right too, and also like kind of baby like he's like a baby human hybrid, you know. Yeah, um, like just enough human qualities and movement, but also very much like a cute little animal. And um the cooing got me and

his dumb little teeth that s his little teeth. I think he's just so innocent and needs Like yeah, he's strong, but like so innocent and just like calls to be protected and brings out like it's almost like he's a test himself, Like he's like you know what I mean, like attest to like the true your human nature, like if you're like you said with Mando, like that's his It's almost like he's called to protect this little thing like you cannot help you can't help it, and so

like he's almost a testament himself of like to the good I guess, like it's like, oh, this was all a test just to see if you would take care of this, you know. It's like his species is innately like constantly testing people for the light that they have

inside of them. Yeah, And I love that when we see him use the force, it just feels totally intuitive, like he saw this this guy who seems to be trying to protect him get hit by this big beast several times and look like he's going to I so, just out of total kindness and intuition, he reaches his little hand out and gives it as all and then has to take a picture nap his I'm not gonna lie his three footed feet, like I can't handle here something.

He's normally wearing little brown loafers, but sometimes they're off and he has his little coffee and I hate it. I'm like, oh god, no, put it back unders out. Ryan Johnson presents claws out well if he is an actual parent. Do you get nervous about Mando's bad parenting of baby Yoda? No? No, I relate with Mando a lot, like especially when he that that trying to explain everything you need that child to do as if they're functioning adult and watching them like listen and then still do

what they were going to do. Anyway, I was like, yeah, all parents fall into that trap. I think, yeah, no logic. I want to hit that button and hands like I told you don't hit don't hit that, but oh my god, because it's bright. I'm not against all other franchises making baby versions of the ill but excepted. You see, someone made the baby Thanos and I was like, yes, snap, oh man, I was gonna say, is there anything else

that we should mention that we left out? I know, you know, it's kind of a mystery, to be honest, and that's why it was funny. Like um, our friend Ash Crossing who couldn't come on tonight, but she was going to be your your co guest and uh, I can't remember if it was her. Somebody like, well, actually, it's fascinating because there's not a ton known about the history of their species. Yeah, the species are really mysterious.

And I think that's a big question of how deep is the Mandalorian going to go or is that going to be part of it? Of like, we don't know where this baby came from. Mean people wanted for I want to take some samples for it for something, and we don't know. And I think that's a big part of the fun, fun mystery. And I think it's possible that we won't learn a lot more and we'll stay mysterious in this will just be a new character we get to know. Oh, I have a question, do you

think that they're from eggs. I would love them to just come from somewhere weird at one point the belly button. I want them to come from him. This mysterious unfound moon full of forest powers, and it's got some trees and every once in a while the trees just drip rows. Like I want it to be something like they are deeply connected, they are of the forest and like every

you know, two thousand years four drips. I would love that because there's something just really I think, deep and fun and spiritual about them as as truly mysterious creatures, you know. And I don't want it to be like I mean, there was all the jokes and it's fun of like when did Yoden Yett to look up and like leave some mystery? Let him drink from a tree? Yeah? Never.

They probably mate by touching fingers or something. Yeah, you know, if he in in dragon Ball, Piccolo his species, they like remember that scene where he's like coughing out an egg. He's like spitting up an egg. So I feel like that could be what happens. Oh yeah, yeah, I love that. Yeah, maybe it's a Gremlins thing, like one of their rights.

I don't know. I think the only other thing that that I don't know if we touched on a lot, that I'd like to say about Yoda is I think one of the great things about his character is that he does have a sense of humor, in a sense of whimsy and like when the character is relaxing at his best. There's a scene in Attack the Clones where Obi one is looking for information because he can't find a planet in the archive, and Yoda turns to all the little kids he's training. Master ob One has lost

a planet. How embarrassing. How embarrassing. It's just like he feels like you're kind of your sweet old uncle who has this sense of Yeah, I've got all this wisdom, I know all this philosophy, I've got all these concerns and responsibilities. But the reason we're doing all this is because life is beautiful and it's good to be with people you care about and appreciate and have a sense of whimsy and joy. And I think that is a

huge part of Yoda's character as well. Yoda, um, well, y'all have been asking us to touch on Star Wars and if he and I have put it off for almost two years, mainly just because it's such a huge thing, so we thought, okay, maybe we can tackle characters or um, you know, we're gonna so starting in the new year, we're actually going to do a multipart dive into Star Wars some of the things that don't always get talked about,

like having an entire episode devoted to Yoda. Yeah, so you'll be seeing more of that in Thank you so much for coming on. Just you don't where can people find you anything you want to plug? Yeah, you can find me on Twitter and Instagram is at Joseph Scrimshaw and you can go to my website Joseph scrimshaw dot com for other podcasts. Do a podcast called Obsessed and a Star Wars one called Fourth Center, and you can check out the show on Adult swim tiktoone that I

am a writer for and so is Iffy. Yeah we beat ticktooning. Yeah, and you know me as always if you wide away on Twitter and Instagram, if D's on Twitch, the discord is Discord dot g g slash Salt Squad. There's a Nerdificent ab where you can talk all things Nerdificent, and our footnotes are dropped in their Thanks to flickery. H Thank y'all, to all the mods and then of course T Public dot Com, Forward slash nerdifficent get T shirts. Give it to people for the holidays. They need them.

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