Episode 81: Stephen King

Thank you. I rewatched all of the Halloween movies again thinking about how we did it all last year together. I thought of you because on Who Shot You? We mentioned um Halloween three season of the w and it was because someone asked, like, it would have been a good who shot call for you? But it was like, what's a scary What's what are bad scary movies? And someone said that, and then too, I think Dreya said it's it's it's still good, and I think Alonso also

cakes it's not bad. I'm sorry. Snakes leaking out of a melted kid's face. That is an amazing visual. I need to watch that. I think it's just more so the lack of Michael Michael Myers that was being landed on. But it's like, if you get past that, it's pretty great. Really an evil corporation. It's so timely. But yeah, uh, you know, we start off our episodes with the same thing every week, which is, what are you geeking out

about right now? Um? One of my new favorite movies called Satanic Panic that is one of the best horror comedies I've ever seen. Uh, it might still be in a few theaters, but it is streaming on Shutter, the horror streaming network. It's Shutters great their curation. They have everything from like supernatural to slasher, to like extreme bloody stuff to like literal comedies and like fun goofy poky stuff. So yeah, it's for it's for everybody. It's perfect for

this time of year. But Satanic Panic was directed by a young woman, Chelsea Stardust and written by Grady Hendricks, who is one of my favorite horror authors who I also recommend since we're delving into our horror author today. If you're looking for somebody a little newer, a little fresher, Gradie Hendricks has three incredible books. We sold Our Souls, my best friend's exorcism in Horror Store, and he can write women the best of any straight man I've ever

seen before. I keep like looking for pictures of him because I kind of don't believe he's a real straight dude. It's a pen name, Yeah, absolutely, because I'm like, how does he know so much about my team girl experience? And there's a lot of that. Satanic Panic has a lot of like a strong, funny, weak, bizarre, frightening women in its starring Rebecca Romaine, who I think is one of the sexiest women alive, and her husband Jerry O'Connell. Yeah,

it's got, it's got everything. Yes, yes, o man. Well for me, I'm geeking out about. This week is actually

uh more on the tech side, you know. I finally got a couch for my new place and all this stuff, and then setting up lighting and on a whim, I picked up some some like smart smart bulbs um for the living room lights, and I just was like, I always wanted to do it, and I have an Alexa, and then I immediately was hooked, so like in the span of buying the smart bulb and like loving it, I went ahead and bought two like colorful smart bulbs for my room and then a living room alexas so

that I can voice control the lights on and off. Those I always go with like music or sounds. Also there's all different settings. Yeah, there's like I was testing out the one because the one in my room is the full hue, so it has all color settings. So there's a Halloween one that like goes orange and black and it makes your whole room origin. And then there's a Christmas one that's like green and red, all that

crinkling you. Here in the background is another guest who I did an announced, which is Naomi Mudi way my daughter. She's eating uh cereal and she's trying to make her way to this uh cereal bar. I'm gonna open it

up for and then we'll get started. I'm really into I've never heard of the I'm not familiar with these lights and not like a big tech person, but I love the idea that you should be watching a movie and have the lights, Like what if doing like a really scary scene, all your lights went out to heighten

the film for you. I know. Let's see. That's the integration we need because the way it works now is Alexa really just turns it on and off, which is nice because I just I'm trying more and more to be a Tony Stark or you know, because like you just say good night, You say Alexa, good night, and then it will turn off all the lights in the house and you'll say Alexa, good morning and it will turn it all on. Or you can say, uh, Alexa,

what is it? What what's my day look like? And then it will give you the news, what's on your schedule, uh, the weather, and traffic to your destination. So I was like, that just makes me feel like I'm the super like I'm Batman. I feel like the only thing the next step for this that I would love to see is like a Wizard of Oz sort of Jetson's thing where they brush your teeth for you, like two little hands come down from the ceiling and let curl your hair

and teeth. And the closest I got was I gotta quip brush because I've heard so much. I mean, we we pushed it on on the pod, but it's a pot must but yeah, it's actually pretty solid, like they it's close because it almost tells you how to brush your teeth because it'll like they suggest you do it in quadrants and then it'll alert you when to go to the next quadrant. And so that's pretty good. The only thing it's missing is a little gloved hand popping

out of your wall holding it. See I don't I don't think I trust technology that much to let it wildly swing things around in my mouth. See. I think it's kind of creepy. Anyways. I definitely can appreciate everything saying being like interesting and fancy, but there is a creepy element to it, and I think it'd be fun if it just went full creep and hands came out of your wall. You know what? Yes, Uh, don't hide, don't hide the truth. So today you know it's Spookedtober.

It's the last episode of sp October because let me let me double check that, because it's gonna because it is the twenty nine, two days before Halloween. It is the last Spookedober. I'm glad we closed it out with you, Thank you. I'm preparing for Halloween hangover. I always get so depressed couple of weeks a November. I mean, it is the most abrupt of changes in holidays, because you know Christmas it ends, and you know you still have the stuff going for a bit. Thanksgiving is a non

holiday at this point in our lives. Uh, New Year, same thing. You have that like New Year's staggering of like the city or town that you're in. Yeah, likes new start for me again. Fourth of July left over fireworks are going extra food. But yeah, Halloween abruptly stops for that day. It's it's all decorations go down, and it's because it immediately is shifting the holiday time and

it's a totally different vibe. I'll know. Halloween. Christmas is also very spooky because the man is coming into your house. Yeah yeah, oh yeah, and lesson not even can started on the Black Christmas references too. Yeah, I'm so excited about the news. Shout out to April Wolf. It was crazy.

I was in uh the h I think which whichever the theater, Oh, it's the Pacific Theater by the Americana, and then it had her um poster up and it was like written by April Wolf, and I was getting ready to snap a picture and then it's the digital one so it went away and it was like, I hate technology. It was just like a popcorn ad. Yeah oh yeah yeah here like and then someone's walking up like this guy really loves popcorn, and you're like, I need to order this to my house. Yeah, but so

this spook Toober. Before we like go into today's side, I just want to have a retrospect. We talked about Candy Man, we talked about the Haunted Man, Ancient at Disneyland. We talked about our real monsters and uh, and then we also talked about the Child's Play series. And these are all just kind of like very specific properties and this one that we're doing today is bigger than that. We're talking about Stephen King, We're talking about a mind. We're talking about, you know, one of one of the

biggest names in horror. I feel like and you can correct me because you did make a face. Uh. I'm just excited. Yeah, because to me horror Mount Rushmore is Clive Barker, Wes Craven, Stephen King. And I know I'm missing two more people, so I'll let you the horror queen. Uh. I don't know, those are really good. I kind of pop Elvira of course, of course you cannot have Halloween without Elvira. Yeah. Absolutely. John Carpenter as well needs to

be up there. Very sorry, to John Carpenter for forgetting Yeah, he's pretty grumpy already. We don't know already he's going to leave a one star review. Mary Shelley, Yeah, you know, and one of the original voices of horror. The reason that we have so many of the tropes and maccab ideas we do it. Oh yes, Shirlie Jackson too. Sorry, I'm just like thinking about all the women who helped us get to But it's super It is super excited to talk about Stephen King because so many of his

works have been adapted. Today when we're recording, not when this is released. But I just released a sponsored post, uh, the first sponsored post I've done for BuzzFeed, but it's for Dcor Sleep the Shining. I'm so excited about it. It looks incredible and it's so funny too, because you know, BuzzFeed comments are all over the place. They can really

you never know what it is. And I was very surprised to go into this sponsored ad and see a lot of people real hype for the movie, so they didn't really hate the video because I feel like typically winning things just an add on any media platform. People like the man, but or does that like a lot of people who watch BuzzFeed videos are teenagers. So the last time I was on BuzzFeed, there like, did she put an eyeline around and she was drunk? That's the

look I'm going for. Leave me alone, children. But yeah, someone said that Doctor Sleep was one of the best books that they've read. Doctor Sleep is incredible. I think it's one of his best um modern books, I guess, like the last ten years or so. It also makes me realize how timely it is that we're doing uh, Stephen King right now, which, if I haven't said yet, we're talking about Stephen King. Realized I did a lot of Oh no, I did all the Mary Shelley research,

but we're talking about Stephen King. And yes, if you don't know Doctor Sleep, because there was a lot of people who in the comments were like, um, oh, I didn't know this was a sequel to The Shining yet, because it's very um, it's nebulous. It has a totally different feeling to it, and it's about like little Danny grown up trying to live a different life. So the tone of it is very different. It's not what you

to mean, what you would think of as a natural sequel. Yeah, it doesn't have anything to do with the hotel, and

it's like, how this shining has appened. Yeah, that's that's what I was gonna say, is like it feels like the shining is about the hotel, whereas Dr Sleep is following the the mythos of the shine and what it means and everything around that, which I feel like is the perfect way to do a sequel to that, absolutely, because like what horror stories are out there, I mean, everyone you want to hear more about the myth like you have a special power. How does that affect you

in everyday life? Yeah? I know, so it's it's uh, it really is exciting. And you know, check that out next week. It's it's coming out October November eight, so that should be Yeah, that that'll be next week. That'll keep your Halloween spirit go. Yeah, yeah, that's for you. They did it for you. But let's start this off how I start off every episode, which is jumping into

the nitty gritty. Stephen Edwin King born September twenty one, ninety seven is an American author of horror, supernatural fiction, suspense, and fantasy novels. His books have sold more than three hundred and fifty million copies, many of which have been adapted into feature films, mini series, television series, and comic books. King has published sixty one novels, including seven under his

pen name Richard Bachman, and six nonfiction books. He has written a He has written approximately two hundred short stories, most of which have been published in book collections. Uh so, what is what is your relationship with Stephen King and his works? I can't pick apart my life from Stephen King. I feel like he has been he was born alongside

of me. I my parents also, my mom specifically really likes horror and my one of my oldest memories is her reading pet cemetery and like the original paperback cover was this cat's face, like really big and teeth and like green eyes. It was so frightening, and I would see it on her bedside table and I'd be like

shook to the core just from the cover. And much like watching or going to the video store and seeing horror vhs on the shelves, the art on the outside of his books, and like the eighties and nineties was so so much more disturbing. I couldn't even conjure in my head what was in those pages, and my mom would always be like, this isn't for your If I was looking through it, she's like, this isn't appropriate for you. And then of course the taboo of that it's just

so exciting. So I think I finally started reading them like middle school at thirteen fourteen, I was like, I am a woman. Now I'm reading Stephen King. Yeah, you can finally like delve deep and yeah, yeah exactly. I think when the Shining mini series came out, which was the one that Stephen King directed because he hates the Stanley Kubrick version, Uh, that came out and I was like, Okay, I am for this. And when I watched that, I felt like very proud of myself because it's extremely scary

to me as a kid. And then I started reading the books. I was like, I made it through the mini series. Time for the novels. Yeah, I mean which was which do you prefer? The Stanley Kubrick or the TV series? Well, they're hard to compare us. Stephen Webber is no Jack Nicholson, um. But it's hard when you really admire, Like I love the book, The Shining scares me every time I've read it, probably like three times and it upsets me every time I read it, and

there's tons of surprises in it. So I do like that the mini series is adheres to the story more and but I mean, of course, everybody knows that Kubrick's is a visual masterpiece, and so you kind of have to just like separate yourself from the fact that King doesn't like it because it has so much going for it visually, it's so iconic, and it's been parodied so many times and it's left left an indelible mark on our culture. Well, that's kind of a like kind of

I don't want to say normal, but common thing that happens. Right, That King does not end up liking the adaptations, Well, I think it's so hard to do with Stephen King adaptation because a thing that people either love or hate about his books is that there's a ton of exposition.

There's a ton of emotional background on every character. A friend of mine hates his books because he says that two or three pages will be dedicated to the way a chair looks, And for me, I'm just like yes, because like, you get me deep into that chair space

and then something like crazy supernatural happens. It's even scarier to me because everything is so normal for so long and they're like what that fact like scared so quickly, and also because you are like picturing it more like I feel like that adds to the horror because as you read it, it gets more developed and it just kind of grows more. Absolutely. Yeah, and that's I feel like because people think of him as just like, I

don't know, Airport, paperback, fluff. All of his movies, a lot of them have been adapted that way, and so all of the things that make his work really special gets lost, whereas Kubrick took all the visuals that were amazing, heightened that, but still left out any of the interesting like expository work. Yes, so of course the mini series gets that down, but it's not visually quite a stunning Oh of course. Yeah. I think my relation with Stephen

King is more cinematic than his books. I've seen a lot of the films inspired, like Missed, which is actually one of the films that he likes. He said he likes the ending of the movie more than he Missed. I hate the Missed, and I'm like the only horror fan that hates the miss I think it's depressing as hell,

and I think it's like needlessly nihilistic. I was angry, like I love a lot of things, and usually like even the worst movie, I can be like, but you know what I had going for it, and I think the missed as great, but that final act reveal it made me so mad. I was depressed for like twenty four full hours and then anybody who looked at me, I was just like like me mugging, and I loved it.

I was like, oh, this is such a wow, what a twist rowney Yeah, and so and it's almost like a lesson lesson of like giving up hope, like you don't yeah, which is like, which is like the most like hard way to say that, but it is like yeah, that's and that's kind of what I took it as is like this they gave up hope and unfortunately, like it was just around the corner. And so because that to me is like such a strong message and from a horror movie, which is typically all hope is lost. Yeah,

that's a great point. I didn't read it like that to me. To me, it read is kind of like a ha ha, like you um sort of yeah again, like a nihilistic four chance like, yeah, mess around like I got you, oh man, Yeah, but yeah, so I miss it. Of course. Did you love the mini series as a kid? I feel like, yeah, I was freaked out. I didn't see it much beyond that. I think I

haven't seen it since. And then I went and watched the new one, which was an interesting an interesting tale of like using parts of a novel without giving all of it because then it just sends mixed messages and doesn't pay off. I mean, just a quick one is just the opening, the opening. I think just landed. Just felt bad because you didn't know that this is because of Pennywise's influence, that this hate crime is happening, because you have a movie that takes place in a podunct

middle of America town. So if you see someone being homophobia, like, oh, this is just a statement about the town, and you totally missed that. No, this is penny Wise is influence, and this is why it leaves right and the whole town is rotten. And the fact that no one cares.

That's of the most interesting things about Diary to Me, and the apathy that runs throughout all the adults, and how when you move away you forget and it's like, yeah, that's part of Pennywise, like you good, how bad things are,

and so you don't fight back. Yeah, And it's funny because they really hit home on that part, which I didn't really or I probably just didn't remember from the first one, but they really hit home on that part without really going into the influence, which is as simple as a line for Isaiah Mustafa, who didn't have enough lines anyway. Yeah, and we're doing other things, like maybe

not just that act. I mean, there were so much time spent on that hate crime when they could have been it could if you had to have that, you could have had other stuff woven in. Of course they took that scene directly from the book. That's how the book opens. Yeah, and I read that again. I was like, like, way too young for that book with all the child

orgies and all the crimes. And that was my big ping against it, is like you had the sense to like never touch this child orgy, but like you're like, we gotta get this hate crime in. Yeah, And it was just so real stick it felt like it was happening to really yeah really, oh boy, there's nothing and I just are already have any type of hate crime displayed in movies by someone who's asked I think I can kick. It's just always super hard for me where it's like, oh, if I was there, right, cream be

so cream. Also any time of film is being made by somebody who is not of that I don't know about exactly so because I feel like it comes from this sort of well, it's the same thing, like it's the same thing of just like not really knowing the

gravity of throwing it in there. It seems to flippant almost like you know when uh, when male writers add rape to a woman's story for her growth and not and just kind of how flippantly it's kind of us like, oh, this is the hardest thing a woman could go through. It's like, no, there's tons of other hard things. Actually it's lazy. And I will say that that's one of the things I think Stephen Kane goes back and forth on.

There's a number of his books where I think that the female protagonist is so interesting and complex and scary or tough a funny, But then other books or other sections of those same stories, rape is such a large part of it, And I feel like I can never quite put my finger on where he is. Yeah. I will say I did read one work of Stephen King, which was his short story The John. Have you read that? No? I don't think so. Oh it's really really good. It's like a sci fi horror story. That's uh that in

the future. Uh, they travel galaxies through this thing called the Jaunt. And in the Jaunt, essentially you're traveling like you're traveling for years, but it only because they put you to sleep. It makes it feel like seconds. But and they tell you not to You cannot not to go,

not to be awake, because then you will age. And it's it's and you know, horror ensues, but it's really it's and just the reveal at the end and the I think that's why I got to taste the flavor of Stephen King without you know, getting any bad side because he did take you know, the like descriptive nous of like the reveal is was like, oh, this is great.

But we're gonna get into Stephen King, his life, his early life and all that good stuff and leading up into a wide open discussion of his books and the things that inspired them. After this break and we're back, but we're joined. There are now four guests in the studio. Yeah, well we've mentioned to me she's been you know, you'll hear it throughout the pod, usually drinking cereal real loud. And I can't even be mad about that because I know that's definitely my d and a that is doing that.

But yes, the Queen Danny has arrived and you know, we're just talking about a relationship to you, Stephen King, So do you want to just join in before we jump into this monster of a bio. I think mine would have to be the shining. I think that that's mine. I think aside from my name being Danny, like everyone always does that, Um, what is it, Mrs Danny's not here, Mrs Torrance or whatever. Yeah, and come playing with us, Danny. Yeah that one. Everyone did that to me. Um, so

please keep doing that. Never gets old. Yeah, so that, uh, you know, and it's so funny because when we're exposed to these as children, I'm really it was the parts that I could see, right, so like a lot of times my parents would have me cover my eyes and like you know, I could only see like so much. So to me, that's so fascinating. I don't remember until

I was older, this scene with the Old Lady. Yes, so you were allowed to watch like those types of movies when you're a kid, Yes, Like I remember watching True Lies Total callback. Uh. And there's a very sexy scene with Jamie Also, my we talked about Jamie Lee

Curtis when you were here last time. Um, but yeah, this scene, there's like a sexy scene with her, and um, I couldn't watch that, But of course I did, Like my parents would do a thing where like I don't know how, but they would somehow like stop it and fast forward, like maybe they'd just be like, get a snack. But there were all these gaps in movies that I watched as an adult, and I was like, what are

all these deleted scenes that I'm seeing for the first time. Yeah, so the one with the old woman was so triggering and scary. And I do love that they have, um Halloween Horror Nights. Last year they had a shining experience. I don't know if you went to it. I went to halleen Horn Knights last year, but I don't. I think it was two years ago. I feel like it was it, Yeah, because I went last year and it wasn't there. I wish I could. Oh, yeah, maybe it right.

It was like, you're right, it was two years ago. Yeah. It was like a maze. Uh, you could go through the maze from the movie. And then also there was a scene uh with the here's Johnny you know in the acts, and I was like, how often did they switch out these um actors because that would be exhausting. Oh yeah, totally fries your vocal cords to scaracters. Yeah.

Well that was what's so funny, because you know, I've been trying to get people to go to hord Nights and they're like, if you hate scary things, why would you go? But I was like, universal, like when they're mazes, they recreate like some of the like when I went like my whole tune change when I did the Halloween maze and you're walking through the house and you're seeing

scenes from the movie. I was like, this is terrifying, but this is also like on a nerdy level, cool to see, like walking through the living room and seeing on the news the Michael Myers murders and then it goes back to when he's a kid and you can

see him getting ready to stab his sister. Like that stuff as scary as it is, and it is scary, Like the coolness kind of like made it worth it, And then I think, I'll so did the Freddie versus Jason May's and the stuff they did there were whild like I was scared, but it was also they were scaring me in such creative ways that I was laughing because I was like why. There was like one where he like literally pops out of a window in the side of the wall, and I'm like, how would I

even prepare for this? This year? They have us And it's so dope because they have a scene where it's Lupeta versus Lupeta and I'm like, this is so cool. So was it just the tether's kind of coming at you? But but it's also the regular family trying to fight for their lives. But yeah, it's and you're in the

mirror house, right scary? That was really scary In the New movie Chapter two, that was one of the best scenes mirror houses like classic cinema like suspense, because you know it's like two people searching for someone and like

you see him or do you? You know? Yeah, they aunt and yeah, I really I really did like that scene and just the guilt that they kind of forced him to go through that like I like, you know, almost like philosophical horror, where it's where it's like it's not technically scary for the person, but what it's doing to that or I guess you would say like more mental like what it's doing for their mentality because it's putting them in a situation where he cannot save this

person and he's been trying so hard. Absolutely, Stephen King is great at that. There's just like a ton of anguish, especially in his short stories. It's like what a person can do to another person, and like the sort of what's great about it is that the apathy that people have and how that can deteriorate and turn into like a monster. It's I think it's some of his strongest work is when he explores the stuff that's not just supernatural. Yeah.

So what are some of his other connecting factors between his works? Do you notice like a common thread? Oh? Yeah, I mean that's my favorite thing about Stephen King is that all of his books are connected. And I'm I know you two are, like you mean, in the same universe, right, Yes, yeah, so I know you guys are huge Marvel Universe people. I have I don't have a comic book background, but I can meet you at that level where it's so fun to see characters and stories we've in and out.

And the cool thing about it, and I think they really missed an opportunity is that it is a huge connecting um tier to everything else, all the other stories. And I feel like there's a lot of money out there for somebody who decides to start weaving these stories together, because it's there already. I mean, horror really needs a Marvel universe, I think, and that if you did the Dark Tower series, which is it is connected to Dark Power.

That's his long like eight book series and thousands and thousands of pages of a story that weaves all of his books together and could be like the next Game of Drones for HBO. Well that's that's the kind of like tough part two about Dark Towers because all the Stephen King fans know and just they've never been able to nail it, and and it's and like people are really excited because they're like, well it's pretty good, so we can maybe get a good Dark Tower. And it

seems like they fumbled it yet again. Oh yeah, they totally missed an opportunity because the whole end of the book. It is about things that happen in the Dark Tower and how cool it had been to do that. It would be like the end credits of a scene in a Marvel movie where you're like, oh, who's going to be up next? And like a call to a movie that comes out in two more years. Do you think they're just so scared of that giant turtle? They're like,

people aren't ready for the giant turtle? You know what? I feel like Stephen King gets a lot of flak for like some corniness, and a big thing with the new movies is them like making fun of Bill's character for writing bad endings. Everybody thinks Stephen King writes bad endings, but I think there's some hokey nous to it. But if you embraced it and just did it instead of making fun of it, I think you could do something

really weird. Because it's very similar to a lot of stuff you love in the eighties that are like kind of Jim Henson like that. We don't think that stuff is cheesy, even know the Dark Crystal could be cheesey. I don't know if it's because it's for adults that people immediately then think it's corny. Well, that was the hump they had to jump over for comic books, the moment they allowed them to just be comic book movies and being a shame. Like I've said that a million times,

that's when we found success. And I think so. I think so too. I'm like, there's a movie with a talking raccoon. I'm sure people aren't going to be that freaked out about a giant turtle being the enemy of a clown that literally shapes shifts, and like, we haven't seen that before, So like, isn't that kind of exciting? I would I don't know, you could do puppetry with it. It could be a whole new kind of take on something we haven't seen before, instead of being like, let's

not do it. And the fact that they crammed seven wild into one movie, and then I think it turns people off because they're like, well, that was a terrible movie. It's like that was like five thousand pages of a book into ninety minutes. That was just irresponsible and reckless decisions. It would be doing the Harry Potter series all in one movie exactly where honestly, it's kind of funny that

as a studio, you wouldn't want to milk that. That's exactly what I'm saying, Like, I think it would be so perfect for HBO or Showtime or I mean even a MC. You could basically have something for ten years. Yeah, I think that would be the move forward because I think that's the fear is. I think when it comes to horror, people are always afraid to do big budget horror like there there. They love the low hanging horror because you're going to get those international cells. You know,

it's going to be easy money. So anything that adds risks to horror, I think scare studio. So I think TV may be the way to go. Just yeah, I mean we're in the best time for it right now. I think everybody is looking for escape horror because we have so much horror in our real lives that it helps us to kind of look out and like satirize some of that through like comic over the top horror. Okay, so you know a lot about Stephen Hanging. You've read

a lot of his works. Yeah, I feel like I've probably read I don't know, two thirds of not three fourths. Why am I doing maths right now? And that if not three thirdis so It's like some of his newer books, like I haven't read Mr. Mercedes and I haven't read like Under the Dome, but um, Doctor Sleep, I think is like the newest of his novels that I'm so excited. Yeah, we discussed it and I just I can't get enough

of the visuals. The trailer is so good. Well, I wanna, like, you know, instead of just going through this author's life and being like ha, and I want to bring up things from his childhood that I feel would be an influence. And you tell me if you've read it. One of the things is that you know, uh, when King waste. When Stephen King was two years old, his father left his family and his mother raised Stephen and his older brother by herself, and sometimes he had financial strain because

of that. And I feel like that is an element that all artists, artists love pulling from their upbringing in their parents. And definitely there's so many stories that he writes about. There's a lot of domestic violence in his books, and a lot of single women breaking out on their own and like trying to build their lives despite like

the real life horror. And then you know something supernatural is often woven in that too, um And so I think that specifically speaks to stories like um Gerald's Game or Dolores Clayborne or even Beverly in it escaping her abusive husband later and the Shining definitely the Shining, Yeah, I mean the Shining feels like it's one that is the most connected to him because it's about the writer who's like losing it and but also a small child and the mom and they're like, now the mom is

scared because of this abusive husband. Yeah, yeah, he's like both. I feel like he's in a way all three character probably. Yeah, I'm sure you're aware of what people believe is Stephen King's horror writer origin story, which is as a child, King apparently witnessed one of his friends being struck and killed by a train. Though he has no memory of the event, his family told him that after leaving home to play with a boy, King return speechless and seemingly

in shock. Only later did the family learn of the friend's death. So everyone suggesting that that psychologically inspired why he does such dark you know works, but there's no nobody has ever. Yeah, I don't think Kings like, yeah, that's what I'm spooky. But oh my gosh, this is so fascinating to me as someone that deals with trauma, the links to which your brain will go to protect you.

So he witnessed the murder of a child, Yeah, his friend being killed by a train, and um, completely blacked that out, because how can you keep going on, right, especially when you're a kid. That's why a lot of people that deal with trauma don't remember elements of their childhood definitely. And then it comes out in other ways, um.

And I mean, of course, like a story like The Body, which goes on to be one of his most famous movies stand by Me about kids finding a dead body, and then um, yeah, near the train track exactly, and then pet Cemetery, which is about like a kid getting killed by a semi truck. I mean it's a large part of that story. And parental grief and brother sister grief. Um. I mean, I think you can see that kind of

woven into everything. That's where a lot of his supernatural is up against the realistic, like something normal, awful happens, and then ghosts and monsters are connected to that, And I think that's a really interesting way of processing trauma. Also, Yes, absolutely, I think that we do that a lot in comedy, where it's like, well, we can't just talk about this sad, awful thing. We're not going to just talk about the domestic abuse, so we're not just going to talk about,

you know, seeing my friend murdered. It is there's other elements, like you said, like that is the way that you can connect to the audience. You can bring them in or else it's just this awful, horrible thing that you're watching. Absolutely, and like we already have so much of that now, and I think that is why there is more horror to examine right now, because how much more of it

can we take on the news. Maybe we can put it through this filter of monsters, right or ghosts or whatever that's like more easily accessible than just watching the actual horror of the world. Yeah. Absolutely. One of um one of my favorite books, Gerald's Game, which is a book that's highly underrated and got a little more play recently because there was a Netflix movie that came out a couple of years ago. By the way, did you

like that? I didn't watch it? And here is why, because like it's trigger warning a lot about sexual assault and a friend of mine told me that that was like there was a lot of scenes of that, and I, whereas I have no problem actually reading about it, watching sexual assault as like entertainment, Like I just can't do it. It's the most triggering thing to me. So I was like, Oh, I really love the book though, And the book is one of the most frightening books. And it's just a woman.

The plot is that it's a woman who is like playing having sex games with her husband, is handcuffed to the bed. He has a heart attack during and dies, and she's handcuffed to this bed and can't get out, and like, but she starts seeing somebody in the room with her, and so it's like there's a supernatural element

to it. So she's by herself and she's reliving bad things that happened to her, but then also thinking that there's a scary element in the room, and like for one person to have like a four page book and have that be fascinating. It's one of the scariest books I've ever read. Just the idea of being alone with your thoughts of trauma, but then also a spooky person who's maybe watching you. Like it's it's really really good.

Did you watch the movie or no? No, I just I also think that that concept is really fascinating that it takes place all in this one kind of singular with this woman. Um not quite the same at all, but just what popped in my head is do you remember that movie with the pay phone where he was stuck in the pay phone? But like, to me, any time that you could eat, whether people loved it or not, any time that you can be in the singular moment and kind of like health time go what did I say, payphone?

I don't have enough change, but for you to be for you to be riveted by this like I always, uh, I like that risk. I always have a lot of respect for people that can that can that can show something in like real time like that absolutely in one

location which one looks really great at. And that's what's so exciting about the Shining is just that it's like one small place that goes on for an endless kind of amount because it is connected to this other universe of souls that are in there and stuck in there, and it's it's neat because I like the idea of like the world that you see is bigger and greater, and crazier than you could ever imagine. And he's really great at exploring that. Have you gone to either of

the Shining Houses? I know there's a miniseries, there's a TV one house, right or No, what am I thinking of? There's the hotel, the hotel, there's there's inside, Okay, that's what I'm thinking. There's the inside, which is one one hotel, and the outside, which is a different hotel. Yes. So the Stanley Hotel in um Estes Park, Colorado. I got to go to it two years ago, and that is the one that he stayed at and that that when

he wrote it. Yeah, and so I went to the room and I got to like, well, we weren't supposed to, but I snuck up there like my little picture in front of it, like the room that he like wrote a lot of it in. Which was another reason that hotel was really fun is it's also where they filmed Dumb and Dumber when they're an aspen at the hotel. So I was just like the two sides of my personality were just like lighting up, like horror and comedy.

Um and they have a lot of drinks on the menu that are Shining inspired, which is really cute and fun also, and then there's the one that was the actual outside of Outside, which I think is in Washington State. I could be wrong, but I haven't gotten to see that one. I wanted to talk real quickly about some of his influences, because I know that he's influenced a lot of artists, but it looks like some of his influences, Uh,

Edgar Allan Poe as you would make so much. So does everyone else on here to be honest, HP Lovecraft, j R. R. Tolkien, Ray Bradberry, Bram Stoker, of course, Shirley Jackson, Richard Matheson My Baby, who wrote a bunch of that sounds awkward, especially looking at this picture of him, because he's just an old guy in a top hat. Um, but you won't see you as a guy in a

top hat. Yeah, you know, you're right. Um. He wrote a lot of the Twilight Zone episodes, Uh, William Faulkner, Um, Alexander Dumas, Henry James and William Golden goes on forever. But um, do any of those stand out to you? Yeah? Definitely, I think especially somebody like brom Stoker, who was inspired to write Dracula because of tuberculosis victims, and like they were the way that they looked, which was like gaunt and pale, and their how their nails and hair kept

girl as it does everybody. Your nails and hair keep growing after death. But people at the time would dig up tuberculosis victims and see that and think they were still alive because they didn't know scientifically that that's what

happens to everybody's body. So he used all these things that were real, real diseases to create a larger horror, which is a really big part of Stephen King's work, especially one of his most popular books, The Stand, which was a mini series iffy at best, Like, there's some really great characters in it, but then there's also like a lot of magical Negro stuff. Um, there's a lot of rape in it. It could be it could definitely have some new life breathed into it. But I love

the book and sprawling epic stories like J. R. R. Tolkien. Um, I think The Stand and then The Dark Tower. If you like The Lord of the Rings like you will love the Dark Tower series and understand while it was in high school, the Dark Tower was blowing up like everyone was reading it. Yeah, everyone, like anybody who likes it every time somebody at loving it. You gotta also understand I was hanging out with the weaves and comics.

Weren't you in like anime club or something. No, it was a martial arts club, which was a undercover fight club. Oh that's much tougher because we're blasting like the like song from Blade and the Mortal Kombat techno music while sparring on the mats. We were the dorky is did you cover pseudonyms? Richard Bachman? We did not talk about Bachman, which I really love. Backman stuff is still good and I really love the reason that he did it, which

was that he was worried. I think this is the thing that probably happens to you if you get popular enough that you're like, do people like my work or they just like my name and they'll do watch and do anything that I do. And he's successful enough to do this though, yeah, because like anyone else, you would just like wanting you would have to use your name

to try and get in places. But he was so successful he was like, let me see if they actually like me, and then like yeah, like they sold Like I don't know, I want to say, like two hundred thousand of his first book, which was Rage in Right, And then once it came out that he wrote it, then it was like a million more copies were as sold. So it's like, yes, your name does have to do with it, but but do you like any of those?

So it was raped. So under Richard Bachman he wrote a handful of short novels We Have Age in nineteen seventy seven, The Long Walk nineteen seventy nine, Roadwork nineteen eighty one, The Running Man nineteen eight two, and Thinner nineteen eight four. Um, I do actually like Dinner. I think the movie is rough, um, but at Dinner is really interesting, although it does have sort of like that gypsy like a magical gipsy woman, which is also offensive

now it was then, But um, I really like. The Long Walk is kind of a dystopian story about kids who have to walk at the same pace and they have yeah yeah, like guards around them, and if they go any faster or any slower, they get killed on the spot. Speed yeah yeah, yeah, but for walking wait and so wait, tell me more. I'm kind of fascinating. So with this concept, so is the whole book. These

kids are they walking somewhere because it's short novel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all you do so you you you drop in on these kids as they're walking. Yeah, it's a point of view through one of the kids. I you know what, that's a good question. I don't remember if it's through one of the kids or not. Because what happens is the idea that everybody gets killed and the last person standing gets like a prize. So it has sort of

like a Hunger Games kind of feel to it. And when I was a teenager, I was so obsessed with dystopian realities and that like, these things can all be possible. Um, So I did really like that one a lot, And I think that could be a really interesting anthology. So cool. I wish that they did as Stephen King, and like they're definitely more streaming services and platforms pushing towards horror anthology. Yeah, definitely, And I think that Stephen King is a perfect person

to pull from. Yeah. Absolutely, And they tried to do that with Castle Rock on Hulu. But the problem with that is they actually wrote all of it before they had the rights to Stephen King's work, So then what they did they got their rights before it was finished, so then they started shoehorning details in and so it doesn't a hundred per scent work. There's elements of it that are exciting, and I think if you're not a Stephen King person, it could possibly get you into the universe,

which is great. But as somebody who's just like really obsessed with this work, I'm like, his, it's just not it's not a lot of new ground. I'll keep watching it. By the way, I lived in Castle Rock. It is a thousand percent haunted and it's also where I got divorced. My house was haunted. Not even kidding. I actually was on like a haunted podcast talk about how haunted my house actually are. When we moved in as newlywed, our neighbors came over to tell us that our house was haunted.

I was like, that's like a Stephen King story. It's always a neighbor coming in to be like your life's about to be. I was just like, thanks with information. Just bought a house with my husband, which is very hard to do but much easier if you don't live in California. And um, this was a couple of years ago when people could actually still get loans and stuff, but I just want to say that upfront. Um, but yeah, I remember them telling me that. I thought, like, how rude.

It is rude because you're like, well what do I do about it? Now? But then its haunted? Uh? And when I told my neighbor, they like fell into a puddle on the floor, like they were so they did not want to live across from our haunted house anymore. I think they had seen so many tenants come in and out of it, so you like cleared out the block, like this block is no good, We'll just set it on fire and let's all move to California. We're also

in the Coldest act like we were the end house. Um, so like a bunch of bookie about that, like a dead end. Your house is the dead end. We have to take a really quick break. We're gonna hop more into Stephen King right after this what is if we are back and thank you for listening to another nerdificent here with Danny Fernandez, Lucy Tomlin Brenner. You know, I mean way and we're we're we're going to jump into some you know, Stephen King essentials, you know, and guided

of course by the the Halloween Queen. You really are like you have such a I mean, I'm sure there are things we haven't even asked you, but we should just like turn the mic on, just let you talk. I would just start being like, okay, in theft hundreds and I first started carving parsnips to be Jack a lantern, like I could get real dry. I thought you were talking about you. I'm like a hundred I thought you were saying when I was car I'm like, she's a

hundred percent of which I respect this. We'll start this out. I love Halloween history. She was alive back then. Re Accidentally, I've been burned twenty times and I'm still kicking. There's a twilight zone about Cleopatra. I don't Yeah, it's my favorite, but she's like an actress today and like you know, it kind of slips, but she wants people to know, like, yeah,

you know, because she looks so good. She's lived for centuries and like she like kind of you know, she keeps it a secret, but also kind of not like you know, I was a queen. Um. I love that. Okay, So what are some of the other works of his that really resonated with you? Um? Carrie was the first book that I read and I've always loved the book um about a teenage girl who's finding her telekinesis powers and how that aligns with how unpopular and misunderstood she is.

And it's like one of these things where like her mom is an obsessive religious zealot, which kind of keeps her from being popular because it's hard to come out of that, but it also makes her weird. So none of the kids at school like her. But she's not into either. She just wants to live and she has

nothing but these amazing powers. And I that was something that really resonated with me in middle school and I first read it and I was just like, I just remember fantasizing about like who I could throw across the room with powers? Yes, it was Carrie a superhero. She is kind of a superhero. It's just the thing that's a bummer. Is like her powers kind of end to

her death and the death of everyone else's. But I love people love Di Palma's seventy six version, but I think Kimberly Pierce of Boys Don't Cry, her version of two thousand and thirteen is truly a feminist like action hero, extreme revenge horror has like an insane kill in it that I've never seen in any other movie. And more importantly, there's like no male gaze in it, which is a big problem with like a lot of his adaptations are they're directed by men, and so women are kind of

the set dressings. But like Karry, this is like her story and it's about her reclaiming the power from being both like oppressed at school and oppressed by her mother, and it's Julianne Moore is in it as her mother, who has clearly also had some abuse in her life, and about her regaining power kind of through self harm, which is interesting in a very complicated storyline, but helmed by a woman makes it so much more interesting and

empowering to me. So I definitely want people to watch that film because it makes it is closer to the book, and it is also it fleshes out these characters in a much more fascinating way than Brianda Palmer is able to um again with a female director as the original pet Cemetery by Mary Lambert is a really great adaptation of the book. Book is a little more campy and its horness is just like very intense, very brutal. The

entire time. It's not as intellectual some of his other books, but it is NonStop scary if you want to just read something that's just like boo boo boo um. And I really like Mary Lambert's version and the remake I was excited about, but it's just such a modern bomber, like a lot of like just jump scares, loud music, dark, Yeah, just chief scares instead of building up to it. Yeah. I hate that we're talking about, you know, the for

lack of a better term, women's touch on Carry. And there's something about the writing of Carry that I want to like point out that I think is a just a good writing tip. Uh. In nineties seventy three with the novel Carry, it was accepted by the publishing house Double Day, but it was going to be his fourth novel, but it was the first to be published so for Carry.

The novel actually began as a short story that was supposed to be for the Cavalier magazine, but King tossed the first three pages in the garbage can and it was actually Tabitha King who finished the pages out of the garbage and encouraged him to finish the story, and she said that she would help him with the female perspective, and he followed her advice and then we had to carry so it was like so even he knew he was like, I'm bad at writing women, and he was like, oh,

if I just talked to one and help her out, and you know, yeah, talking to women can really help you create any well. Yeah, and that's like whenever somebody's like because you know, sometimes I'll get and even sometimes listeners have hit me up and be like, you know, you and Danny talked about you know, white folks writing you know about people of color or women of color

and all this like what is the thing. I was like, We'll send it to a person of color, woman of color because they let them and let them know, like like like let them know, be honest, because it's honestly if you if you would, if I would have got loquishia, I would have been like ye no, oh my gosh, chief, I'm gonna say the same. Yeah. No. I definitely think he struggles with that with his black characters as well.

He does that like gross thing that I think a lot of writers that they might still do it, but definitely in the seventies and eighties where it's like describing their skin like food. Yeah, you know, and like using slang that's just so over the top and so unnatural that like you don't even realize you can cringe while you're reading a book. It's just like, oh, I'm shuddering. When when Lee Unchorage wanted to do Coco, like they were like, okay, but you need to immerse yourself. You

need to go to Mexico. You need to be there. Um and actually, like you know, so he's not just like writing something that he's not familiar with. And of course he also brought on um Adrian Molina. But yeah, you need to work with people of color or women are like anybody whose voice is not your voice because

other right, we talked about this with it um. Chapter two starting with a hate crime, like if you are a person who's not affected by hate crimes, brought it by someone who is because it's so tone deaf otherwise and triggering, super triggering. Um, I wanted to talk about two. How I saw Secret Window a rear window. Oh man,

I love secret windows, Secret Windows. Secret Garden is a short story and then it was made into a movie just called a Secret Window about a writer who is plagued by a man who keeps insisting that the book that he's famous for was written by this insane man who keeps showing up at his doorstep day after day.

And they made the movie in like two thousand and five thousand and six, with Johnny Depp and John Taturot being the guy who shows up on his footstep on his doorsteps saying you stole my story over and over throughout the entire movie, and that for me is enough to love a movie. Um, it's Johnny Depp. Um. At the last time I think he was cute, he is abusive and the worst. But Weekend acknowledge he was like a heart job in the nineties. The last time he was cute was when he was in this movie. And

he's actually like pretty good in it. Uh. It is actually a very underrated adaptation. There's just a couple of like, yeah, so he's super known for horror. I know you were talking about Creep Show, which has it's which is out now a new version of Creep Show yea on um shutter yeah anthology series, so that one isn't all based on his stories like some of them are, like the

original Creep Show movies. He did with George Romero of Donna the Dead, um Night a Living Dead zombie fame, and a couple of those were based on his short stories, and then a couple of them were like original stories and they split directing. And he also cameoed in one of the original creep Show Saidila, I know that he cameoed in it too, but like he likes to pop up. He's like m Night Shamalan. Yes, he I love and I love a cameoke. I don't think it's cheesy. I

think it's cute, like you worked hard, show your face. Um. He directed the only movie he ever directed, Maximum Overdrive, which everybody thinks is like one of the worst horror movies ever, but it's like a little fun. He cameos in that and people think it's like one of the worst cameos ever. Um. But yeah, he's in this one where basically mold takes over it like some kind of alien. Mold takes over his whole house and his whole face. And there's some really good gifts of their out there

of him covered in green grass. If you need a good Stephen King gift, Can you talk to me a little bit about the Green Mile because it just feels like such a turn, but maybe because I'm not familiar with his work. Um, it's it's a turn if if you're thinking of him as like a just a prolific horror writer, which he is, but he does do a lot of work like Shawshank Redemption. I'm sorry, yes, also that before definitely Like so, he's written a ton of

books that actually don't necessarily have horror horror elements. So Stephen King, one of the inspirations that we didn't talk about was his love of crime and detective novels and Elmore Leonard is an author that he has been very inspired by, and so I think that when he explore something like The Green Mile, what's really interesting about it is that it came out serially like it's a really large book, but originally it just came out chapter by chapter,

which is something that they used to do back in like the forties and fifties, where you would just get part of a crime novel like every week or every month. And so he was trying to use that element in a new way with a new story, and that's how The Green Mile came to be. And he wanted to use that UM Prison Um, the grayness of like who's

really bad, who's really good? That comes up in a lot of his work, and I think it is interesting because when you deal with monsters and the supernatural, there's a big bad and then there's the good and you're fighting each other, especially in the stand which is just about good and evil. But when you start exploring um, crime, uh, police prison systems, it becomes this grayness of some people

are about some people are good. And I think through his work that is not straightforwardly super now trull, he's able to explore the like gray upsetting nous of our real society. So it's still very challenging. And then he weaves a little bit of supernatural elements into the green. Well those all those UM stand by Me and the Shawshank Redemption and the Green Mild, they all have horror elements to them, like something terrifying that happens or crime.

Like you said, so that that is still fascinating. Um. But Okay, so you've read so many of his books and still are reading his books. Have you noticed a change in his writing style over the years. Um. I think that there's more nuance as he you know, knows more about the world ages as we all learn that some things are like not appropriate anymore, or things that are more interesting the older you get. Um and ideas that he keeps coming back to related to the Dark Tower.

So the thing that I love about his books is it always has the nuance and the expository writing where he explores everything in minute details, which I love. But then I think he has flushed out characters every decade more and more and more and made them, like made the female characters way more interesting and more in depth and less caricature e. And I will also say that I think his scary stuff is more about the world

being scary and less like haunted dogs, you know. But I think his style that I love has stayed true. It's like every time I opened a Stephen King book, it feels like I'm at home, and it reminds me of like being a teenager under the covers and just being like, m this feels like secret scary. I love that. Um, Well, I guess what are some other things? I know that it's impossible to talk about this man's ripping the table

because there's so many things. Now nobody writes this woman, she clearly knows everything there is to know and if we could go for four hours, she really would. I hope that you get asked to be in a document I got asked to be in a documentary for Twilight Zone. I was like, finally, the one thing that I know the most of asides Wonder Woman and anime, um, the one thing. Well, everybody that listens to this has to

hear me reference it. But Rod Serling is the reason I became a writer, one of the biggest reasons, and so so much of that and what I deal with. You know, Stephen King is the reason I love horror. That was my Stephen King, and I guess maybe Fear Street, although I don't want to give our els time that much credit, but like, reading those as a tween got me interested in like this idea of greater worlds all

around us, with like spooky tentacles coming out of the darkness. Um. And I think there's so many there's so many books that haven't been turned into movies, so you probably haven't heard about. And I think a lot of people think that books after the nineties aren't as good. There's this idea that like his early work as his best work, but like movie or excuse me books like Insomnia one

of my favorite books. It's so weird and it's so creepy about like the idea that everybody has a life force that can be like we're connected to stroy ings and that there's these supernatural beings that try to cut our strings and that's how you die. It sounds cheesy, but it is extremely sinister and disturbing and makes you wonder if they're like what's around me all the time.

And it's very heavily connected to the Dark Tower. So if you're interested in the Dark Tower at all, but you're not sure if you want to commit to eight books, if you like Insomnia, then it'll throw you into it full force. So I love that book. I love a Bag of Bones, which and then came out in like the late nineties. It's a really classic ghost story and it's basically a cabin next to a lake and man is being haunted by his wife and maybe something else.

Uh So it sounds really simple, but there's so much emotional core to it. It's also connected to the Dark Tower. See what I mean, they have a cash cow in their hands. Uh So, I definitely think people should check those books out. Um and Short his short story collections are bar none like if you don't want to commit to an elevene like it, uh, get like every things eventual.

That's one of my favorite short story collections. It has fourteen o eight in it, which was remade, which was made into a movie with Samuel Jackson and John Cusick, which is a pretty good movie, but was Yeah, it's I just rewatched it and I'm like, this is still scary. By the way the mist scared the rap out of it. We did dug. Yeah, it's a very upsetting. It messed me up. The actual novella is very scary too, and not even just the ending, but the actual monsters they created.

I mean, I'm sure that he was super graphic in the novel. I didn't read the novel. I just saw the movie and it was traumatizing. Yeah, No, it's really scary. I'm always scared of the idea that, like in a disaster, supernatural or otherwise, the way that people could turn against each other and you depend on each other to survive. It gets me in a very stressed place to see that with the walking dead, like y'all need each other.

There's only so many of you humans left. I had to stop watching The Walking Dead for that exact reason, because I have such a control freak that I'm like, okay, listen, now, if we put a graph together to work out we

can all survive. Um. But U is one of the scariest short stories I've ever read, because there's a lot of uncanny elements and he thinks about things like that are so strange to me, like a phone rings and he picks it up, and it's just like a strange voice, like counting random numbers and then intersplicing I've killed all your friends and then other numbers, and like you're all gonna die, just like weird, like corny to just say it now, but like when you're reading and you're like cool,

cool in a hotel, totally normal, And the the idea of getting like a phone call like that that makes no sense. Like I love that stuff, things that you're not expecting that aren't just monsters but real and like why why

would this happen? Um? I really love Everything's eventual and the like Skeleton Crew is a classic one and has that book that you were or that story that you were talking about The John Skeleton Crew is a very good one too, and so you can get like his short story collections and get like a huge jolt from them if you're not into the expository writing and move forth and not feel like you have to, you know, commit to all five thousand pages of the Dark Tower. Well, honestly,

probably bring you back to just talk about the Dark Tower. Oh, I would love to. I have like three additional books that are just compending on your eyes just got so wide, don't suppresent context didn't pop out? Um, well, where could everyone cut you? You can get at me on Twitter and Instagram at LTB Comedy Lucy Tomlin Brenner. Those are my initials. Um. And I just started my own film podcast because I constantly am talking about movies and movies

that I feel like everybody is missing. So I have a new podcast called you Need to See This about all the underrated gems in cinema, where me and my friends try to convince people that things are worth it spoiler free so you can listen even if you haven't seen it, and we won't ruin anything for you, and it's positive. It's all positive, not ragging on anything. Oh that's fun for me. I don't have anything coming up.

Oh actually yeah, in November. I'll be in St. Louis the weekend of the eight so yeah, come through see me if you're in the St. Louis area. But besides that, U tune into my Twitter and Instagram for all my shows coming up. That's where I posted, Yeah, same here, I have something really cool. It was kind of what

I was saying about the Twilight Zone. But I was in this documentary, um and you know how they have those Fathom events like before the movie starts and it's like it'll be like check this Fathom event and you're like, who does that? Well, it's one of those. So it'll be in theaters I think for one night only. Uh November four. It's the Twilight Zone, a sixty anniversary celebration. So I saw that. I just texted that to a friend and I was like, I have to go to this.

So I don't I know that I'm in part of it. I think my full documentary like the full parts of me, So I might just be in a small part of it. Because I love that you're in it. That's so great. Yeah, So I think what I'm actually in is in like a DVD release. I know that they're re releasing the toilet Zone for sixty anniversary, so we might be a special feature. I'm not sure. I just know that I'm going to be in part of this, and then the full documentary is you will I will definitely post about it.

But if that is something that strikes your fancy, there's gonna be a lot of other people in it. I'm sure Jordan Peole will be in it because now that he's taking it on. But anyways, that's in theaters November four. It is the Toilet Zone sixte anniversary celebration. Finally, the amount that I have plugged and talked about it has paid off. That's incredible. That's the dream I am so plugging you for. If anyone ever comes to me about

horror stuff, thank you. Yeah, I just um one of the I'll just leave it with one last thing is that I think that the humanity in horror is what I love the most. I love being scared and ghosts and monsters, but I love real people's experiences. And Stephen King is amazing at getting at the emotional core of fear. So it's not just us boo, but it's also like, well, here's my life story, and then the boo is even stronger and so I, um yeah, I really can't get

enough of those types of stories. And if you like reading about real people going through like insane things, that's what makes him the most interesting to me. That's so cool. We'll have you back a promise. Great, I can't wait. Thank you so much for having me again. This was totally different from the Halloween one and but just as much fun. So I appreciate it. No, we appreciate you for coming on. Thank you so much for stopping by,

and thank you all for listening. This has been another nertive sent and like we always say, stay nerdy, stay spooky. Oh yeah, but last spook