Episode 78: Candyman

Oh man, No, thank you. I mean, you know, before we even get into anything, I just want to talk about, you know, everything that you've done. So you're the head writer of Craig of the Creek, you know, and you've came up through was it Nick's uh writing writing program, so you you know your success story around all that. And have you always wanted to do animation? H No? And when I was a kid, I want to be a pro wrestler. Uh. So I went after that for a while and then I was like, oh, yeah, this

hurts a lot. I don't like feeling like an old man with no back when uh when I wake up at the age of eighteen. So I eventually moved into like I went to a trade school in Michigan, UH, where I studied like video production, and one day I caught an episode at thirty Rock. I was like, okay, wait, you can get paid right. No one told me this, And you can do comedy and you don't have to like write books. So that was kind of when I

like realigned my focus. And that was I was twenty at the time, and uh, I took up writing, taught myself. I didn't go to college, and then when uh I was twenty five, applied for the Nick writing program, got in, moved out here, uh and been out working in animation for the last four years. Wow, that's so dope. So what was it was? What was the first show you worked on? The first show I ever worked on was

the show called Harvey Beaks at Nickelodeon. I was produced or created by C. H. Greenblatt, who also created the show Chowder what you might know. So, uh, that was a great like start for me because the room was like super welcoming and everyone taught me a lot, like the perfect room for me to start in, and within like two months in that room. They gave me a freelance episode, which hardly ever happens. And uh, that was

the first show I worked on. Then I moved around too, Nickelodeon's upcoming show Glitch Texts uh, and a bunch of other shows that I can't name yet, but mainly Craig of the Creek, where I started as the staff writer for season one and got promoted the hat writer for seasons two and three. Wow, well, big congrats is already that with that dope resume. Uh So, what's something you're you're you're seeking out about this week? So this might be old for you, but I'm looking for people to

talk about it with. I just started reading and watching my hero Academia. Oh yeah, now, so yeah, you know, I'm not I'm I'm still season one so so so no, we're we're ready. I'm gonna start chopping it up with you on that. But you've been digging it, oh man. I started reading it four days ago. Uh, and I'm on chapter one and two. So yeah, I'm I'm getting I'm digging it pretty much. You're you're deep in over me. I just did twitch Con. I was down in San Diego for twitch Con and Twitch Con is one of

the most exciting times a year for me. Now this was my third one, and now I'm like, yeah, this is this is my jam because it's crazy to see you, like all the faces behind the screen name and meeting everyone and just the energy around it. Like it's crazy. You're walking around and you're seeing people and you think you're like, oh, I know that person. You know, I just watched their face while they played video games. So I'm it's gonna be in San Diego next year and

I'm already looking forward to it. And I had fun idea the season finale of my sneaker show on Twitch fresh Stock and that went well. Puma laced me up in these they're doing a collaboration with the Cloud nineties Sports team, and they gave me like the shirt and the sweatsuit that they're coming out for it and it's not dropped until the tenth So you know, there's there's nothing a sneaker had likes more than wearing some stuff that people can't even get. Yeah, so I gotta get

on Twitch, that's what you're telling. Look, look, we'll talk sneaks on Twitch. You know, we gotta get ready for this next season. But yeah, no, so that was dope for me and it was a good time. And now it's like it's officially Spoketober. You know this episode, you know, since I knew you were coming, I wanted it to be you know, not only something spooky, but something black and spooky. This is a property that you know, had

real prominence in the black community. I think the only way I could have made this episode blacker is if we did Tales from the Hood, which I kind of am regretting not choosing that one. I will come back, yea. But yeah, this is we're talking about candy Man, which you know, before we even get into nitty gritty, you were saying you haven't seen it in almost like twenty years. It's been a long time. Same here. It's been a

while since I like even remembered candy Man. We lightly touched on candy Man last year when we did Horrid Noir, uh and we and we talked about that, but like now we're gonna truly go in because it had like an impact because it's so funny because we talked about like, you know, needing representation and diversity now, but nineties had a like big, like splash of diversity. You know, you

had family matters the Waynes Bros. You know, meteor Man, you had blank Man, fresh Print, fresh Prints don't be a medicine, South Central We drink can choose basically the way In were pushing like diversity and they didn't have to hire anyone because their family was so big. But this was another one of those like splashes. And this was a horror movie. I was centered around you know, black culture, blackness and uh and everything. And I remember instead of like I know, there was the Bloody Mary.

You can say the name three three times? Yeah, and people said that for candy Man where I grew up, like if you say candy Man in the mirror, he comes and he kills you. But it's five times. Yeah, it's five times in the actual movie. But but but people were like three times in the mirror. Yeah. My fiance is still won't say it really still today. Well I was telling her about it yesterday. I was like, yeah, so we're doing candy Man. She was like, you can only say that name so many times. I was like,

it's not gonna She's like, still, she's not wrong. Yeah, you know it could no one you know, knowing that I know have said it five times, but here's the nitty gritty from The Wicked. Did he uh? Candy Man is a American supernatural slasher film written and directed by Bernard Rose and starring Virginia Madsen, Tony Todd, Xander Berkeley

and Kassi Lemon's and Vanessa Williams. Based on the short story The Forbidden by Clive Barker, the film follows a graduate student in Chicago complete and a thesis on urban legend, which leads her to the legend of Candy Man, the ghost of an artist and son of a slave who was murdered in the late nineteenth century. Which, yeah, that was that was. It's it's so funny because I until revisiting it in my adult life, was I really up to date on like the backstory to canymnep? Yeah, Yeah,

it's real deep. I always just thought he was just a scary man. Yeah. Then you find out why he's angry, and he's angry because he loves white women. Like, let's keep it funky. That's that's the story. If a black guy loves white women so much, he's gonna kill you four not wrong. Yeah, but there's all these other like, um wild parts about it that I didn't know, like the fact that it's from a story from Clive Barker's that it has like serious horror roots, and then uh,

you know, then it got uh amped up. We'll say so the Forbidden, so just so we'll look at the Forbidden and then like already off that fuel. Candy Man. The Forbidden is about the university student named Helen who's doing a thesis on graffiti, and then she selects a rundown, a state to focus her study. She noticed disturbing graffiti in an abandoned building that makes references to an urban

legend known as candy Man. Further inquiries led her to believe this is connected with recent murders and mutilations in the neighborhood. Although the locals are seemingly reluctant to discuss the incidents, She eventually encounters the candy Man himself, getting notoriety by becoming his latest victim. And that's what that's

what happened with a candy Man. Yeah, it seems pretty close to what candy Man is, except like it seems like it just sent in short story form that the ending is horrible anything, I mean, the ending The Candyman actually isn't great, like not, you know, like it's not a happy ending. But this one is just like in a horror fashion of being like yeah, yeah, it's It's basically like, this is a cautionary tale. Never say candy man or you will die. Yeah, never say candy man,

even if you're doing the paper or a podcast. Yeah yeah, I know, we gotta get a candy bank. Oh no, we've definitely went over it. This is this is how the key Impel version is gonna starts. Oh man, so um. The film came to Fruition after a chance meeting between director Rose and Clive Barker, who had recently completed his own HM adaptation of Night Breed, and Rose express interest in Barker's story that forbidden, and Barker agreed to license

the right. Where Barker's story revolved around themes of the British class system in contemporary Liverpool, Rose chose to refit the story to Cabrini Green public housing development in Chicago instead focus on the themes race and social class and inner city United States. So it seems like the difference because I didn't get to crack open the actual book Volume five of the Black Barker Book is that Candyman was white and then the original candy Man. He was like, hey, bro,

gonna caut you with my hook. Sorry to all my British listeners, all of them except Drake Levi, who I hope to disrespect any chance I get, But every other British listener I truly apologize. Um, there's just so many inside jokes of people I'm slandering. I figured as much. I was like, I'm not gonna pry. Yeah, Drake is a member of my commune and he's uh black Londoner who uh he hops, you know, he'll hop and play

with me, and it's like storms. He joins my discord and just goes off like that's exactly like I wish I was joking, because like I remember, it was him and there's another guy in our community, Wolf Yahmi and they're both black Londoners and they jumped in the discord together and just started talking using slang words I've never heard before, lots of in its thoughts of blood brov Man deems. All of that. I was. It was fascinating. I was like, this is this is what we might

must sound to black like yeah, bet naming. You know you're gonna run that back, like what, Like I said, this is gonna be a very black episode of Nerd Deficit. I'm hoping that there's that kind of dialogue in the upcoming Possible Candymen. Yeah, like if it's updated like that

and like just a bunch of s and stuff. Yeah, So here I was that you were talking about the social bit most Like, I know that that's gonna be interesting because like it really like looking back on it with adult eyes, they really were trying to say something, but you know, it had a comment on social and race issues as well as a white director can do.

You know, you can only you're only so limited, especially like because really the foundation, I do respect how you would like talking about like housing projects and all this stuff, but it really is a cat to happen, especially something as nuanced as projects, because anyone, any person of color who's like grown up in the hood or trap or whatever you want to call it, there's like such a interesting take on it because like there are aspects of it that are bad, there are aspects of it that

are home, and lots of times when you're from the outside looking at it, you can only see the portion, and that's how you kind of portray it. And that's exactly how it was portrayed, because even watching that scene again last en. I watched it again last night, and the scene where they show up and they're like immediately it's just like getting cat called and just a terrible place. And it's just like five dudes crowding around these women and you're like Jesus Christ, what if why are you here?

But then also like you know, no, it's fine. They think we're police and I'm like, well, no, you don't look like police officers at all. What is happening here? Like like I said, And that's what's so funny too. It is like just the the the aspect. Like I remember, so I grew up in Compton Um and then I moved to Downey when I was in like I started going to school in Downey in eighth grade, but I

didn't move to Downy to like tenth grade. But I remember a lot of times, you know, from Downy, like all the white people that I met would be like, oh, if I walked in Compton, I'd get shot. And I was like, yeah, yeah, there are gang member was waiting at the board. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, uh, you know, kudos to them, because I also did think I could just walk in houses without knocking, because that's what all the white people on TV did. So so like I was like, we both were wrong, but you

were more wrong than I was. I was so sure. I was so ready to get a ladder like claristics. That would have been a horror movie real quick. You imagine this thick Nigerian guy crawling into your room. Fantasy for some nightmare for most. But uh but yeah, so um so then they talk he licensed it, and they're like, bet we're gonna make this. Um, We're gonna make this happen. Let's get into production the screenplay, so the change of set necessitated a change to certain elements for the film,

according to the journalists. According to journalists Steve Bagaria, one source of inspiration may have been a pair of articles he wrote for The Chicago Reader in seven and nineteen ninety about the murder of Ruthie May McCoy, a resident of Chicago's Abbot Homes housing project. Seven. McCoy had been killed by an intruder who entered her apartment through an

opening behind the bathroom's medicine cabinet. This is gonna be the first piece of information I'm anna rebuff, like like I'm, I'm, I'm I'm gonna have to side out of this regard. I was like, yeah, I wrote an article about someone got murdered in a home invasion, Like yeah, that's a lot that happened. That's a that's a textbook crime. My guy, you're the one. You're the one who inspired this whole move, Like I'm sure you know in Chicago they had a

few of those. I mean, I just love the fact that, like he was like, well, I wrote this article once and again in so clearly they ripped me on. You're ripping yourself over. This is irrefutable, irrefutable evidence. And that's what I love is that it's according to take him. There was nobody the the Rose didn't say this. Barker did not say this. He was like, nah, they stole

it from me. See this is what apps we get info for Wikipedia, and why I like to get info for because I feel like any official documentation on this movie was not going to mention this one report. He's like, man, I reported on crime in Chicago. You know, yeah, we ain't got many of those were life that's like you being like yo. So boys in the Hood ripped me

off because I grew up a comment. They ripped me off based on a MySpace post I'd posted about living in Compton in two thousand and five and two thousands alright, so and it's such a like anecdote that I'm glad it was added. So then, uh, there was some controversy that the film was depicting racism and racial stereotypes. This film based on that scene you just described. I don't

see what the problem is. You know what, just according to Rose, I had to go and have a whole set of meetings with the Inn double a CP because the producer were so worried. And what they said to me was they'd read the script. What they said to me when they read the script was why are we even having this meeting? You know? This is just good fun? Um. This must be the National Advancement the National Association of the Advancement of Caucasian People. Their argument was, why shouldn't

a black actor be a ghost? Why should black actor play Freddy Kruger arondible elector? If you're saying that they can't be it's really perverse, this is a horror movie. According to Madison, I was and am now worried about how people will respond. I don't think uh, I don't think Spike Lee will like this film. To his defense, he's right, because SPI don't like anything like yeah, that's that's a that's an easy did I make it no trash? Oh my gosh, this is great because I want to

know how much of that is true. I just love the quote why shouldn't a black actor be a ghost? It's like, imagine how much better Woo be Goldberg? But it man, it's that a Patrick. I don't know, why wouldn't she a ghost? Oh? This is Oh, this is already off to the best start, because I mean this is this is the amount of gravity to approached this movie. But also it's like it's funny because it is like

a tin pole in the black community. It's important. It's it's important to us because like we said, why shouldn't black people be a ghost? Or a Freddie Rueger? Oh

my gosh, yeah this yeah, this this is great. This is gonna be my most fun is just kind of diving into sections of this because like I want to know what script the in double a c P was reading, you know, because also, like if you're in a script you read enters the Avid Kinny projects, it probably doesn't read the same as when you shot the scene of four black dudes with sagging if rob wasn't that extra descriptive script because on paper, yeah, why why not do

candy Man? Okay? Um, Now we got onto the filming, which, although barker short story is set in his native Liverpool, Rose decided that the film would be much better done in the US, like we uh, like we said earlier. Um, and he's scouted locations in Chicago and found Cabrini Green, which was an incredible arena for horror, for a horror movie because it was a place of such palpable fear. What does that mean? Like thet he was a white person walking around south side Chicago and was like, oh,

this is scary. I am afraid right now. This is this is the perfect setting because all I can imagine is this like young white guy in a beret walking around south side Chicago and doing the finger things. Directors, Oh my god, this is horrifying. Yeah, this is scary. Yeah, this is it. This is where we make it, alright, we're gonna be diving in some more with Candy Man. We're already off to this is fun and spooky, spooked over, but we're gonna hear from some of these uh these

these sponsors, uh commercials. We'll be right back, Welcome back to narrative. EM I'm if you wait, sitting across from me, Jeff Trammel, and we are looking into the modern black masterpiece candy Man. H this is this has been the most fun and that's that's what I wanted to do. Is because I speaked over. We go over scary, scary things,

and there are lots of fun scary things. But it's crazy to look back on candy Man because it really is like like I'm not like I'm saying it when we're saying a lot of funny things, but I'm not joking. And how big of a impact candy Man has a black I mean, there's nothing. What's the other like big black horror movie besides tell Us from the Yeah, I think that's it, right, Yeah, I think it's candy Man until along and um uh get out. So yeah, there's

been nothing for us. Yeah, Yeah, it was either this or acrimony from Tyler Perry scariest movie for a different reason. Oh oh man, so uh so, so, so we went to Chicago. He was scared. Now we're talking such an excellent like now you're caught up. You're caught up. Uh So, Now we get to the casting, which is wilder than

we were ready for. So Eddie Murphy was the original choice for the role of candy Man, but his filmmakers could not afford him, which means both the film was off to a great start, but also he's not the choice like, well, and the biggest comedy star is gonna be our horror guy. I'm gonna till you That's that's how I learned My Eddie Murphy impression needs some tightening up. But you know I got the point. I mean, at

least you did it, so I didn't have to. Uh So, according to time, I met with Bernard Rose, who's a brilliant mind and a great director, and I wanted to say, uh and I wanted to say it was a higher but I just people can't tell me, oh, You'll never be able to shake this. And he said, you know, I'm gonna do the best I can and go with that. I knew when I read it. I saw the beats and stuff. I knew things like that hadn't been filmed before, so that was interesting and I always wanted to find

my own personal Phantom of the Opera. Todd negotiated a bonus of one thousand dollars for every beast thing he suffered well filming. He was stung twenty three times. I mean that's smart. He's like, Yo, you gotta pay me a rack every time I get stuff. But also like, how do you do you just lie or do they check you for standing? I know when you're talking money, like talking about a rack, I got stung a million. I'm just saying I'm at the doctor right now. Kiss.

You know it's the Naties. So I can't send you like a picture. I left my polaroid in my in my catillec, so you're gonna have to believe me. I'm calling you on a landline. Oh my gosh. So that's how we got So that's how we got um. Todd and then Virginia Madson was friends with director Bernard and his then wife Alexander Pig and Matson was original was originally to play the role of Helen's friend Bernie. While I'm Pig was to play Helen, so he's gonna cast

his wife. Yeah. Yeah. The choice was then made to make the character of Bernie African Americans, so Mattson lost the part. Diversity strikes again. As shooting was about to commence, Peg discovered that she was pregnant, so the role of Heaven Helen was offered to Mattson. Had Mattson been unable to step into the role, producer Alan Pole was partial

to say wait. So he was like, first, it's gonna be my wife, and then he was like, she's pregnant though, so the second it's gonna be her, Yeah, her homie, and then the homie couldn't do it. Sandy bull What I can't talk about, are you kidding me? Is this early Sandra Bullet because Sandra Bullock and Sandra Bullet and she's sitting behind the director's wife and man, that that old tell that tells you everything you need, Towood, that

tells you everything. Sandra Bullock. Oh man. So the film score was composed by Philip Glass, and according to Glass, is to become It has become a classic. So I still make money from that score to checks every year. What a flex a stand a kid. It's like, yeah, I'm still making racks, stay getting money on his candy Man. I'm sorry hired me because I make classes. Do you know the candy Man theme off the top of your head? No, not at all. I couldn't if that was a gun

in my head. I'm dead. I don't know that. I'm just going here it comes Canny. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna see if we can find it on Spotify to get it. And here I am contributed to that check right now, candy Man, candy Man main theme from candy Man. So it does because this isn't even his right, this isn't even the track. It's from Halloween themes, so that and so he definitely has some cloud when he's getting uh copied by Halloween and I'm with a banger.

Here we go, prepare. It's pretty close to what you were doing. I mean, I feel like he gets checks from from like dub step tracks, because that sounds like every the beginning to every dub step song I've heard to my life. He just needed like, oh my god, do do look well we'll ask a producer Dan if he used that in this Gladiators track. He's probably gonna be like, yeah, oh my god, this is the best. Oh, here we go. He's talking, he's he's putting numbers on

the board. Tony Todd confirmed in an interview with I g N that a limited edition featuring seventy copies of the film soundtrack was released in February. Two souls that can still have seven thousand, hundred ninety nine copies sitting in the trunk. You ain't talking about all that, huh, Yeah, alright, let's talk about this release. Baby. So The Cannyman had its world premiere at the Toronto International Film to tiff Baby. This was a tiff opening film, son, and it was

part of its Midnight Madness lineup. What is that? I don't know. It seems like Tiffic was getting wild in the nineties and then it was released in October on October where it made twenty five point seven million budget. Al right, the budget was eight to nine million five. I mean, well you get the guarantee twenty for black people. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna show us. So, so you that was you? You made uh you made a free throw. You didn't think it, but I mean that's a huge come up. Um,

we should have known. I know, yeah, yeah they did. I but now stop with a critical response. So Ron Tomato has it at se a fifty three survey critics, with an average eating of six point three to ten. The Curicum consensus raids though it though it ultimately sacrifices some mystery in the name of gory thrills, Candyman is a nuanced, effectively chilling tell that benefits from an interesting

premise and some fine performances. Yeah, that's the one thing you want to hear about a horror movie that you mean, it's like, yes, it's it's nuanced. I mean, I really got to think about it a bit, but is great. Yeah. Oh man, let's talk about our homie Ebert, because that's that's you know, he's not holding back. Ebert wrote, elements of the plot may not hold up in clear in the clear light of day, but that didn't bother me much.

What I liked was a horror movie that was scaring me with ideas and gore instead of simply with gore. All right, that'd be bad. So that it's okay. They did good. We got Kevin Thomas from that like times, though he called it. Clive Barker's worst to date, and he says it quickly becomes as repellent as it is preposterous. But honestly, I can't slander this man. I was gonna say, honestly, he could just be a racist. Kevin Thomas's lawyer contacting the podcast. So I did not say that. Oh sometimes

once sooner or later. Um, how stuff works is gonna pull the plug on my mouth. So the film came in at number seventy five on bravos One Scariest Movie Moments, and the character can Deman Can even number eight on Bloody Disgustings Top thirteen Slashers in Horror Movie History, and ranked the same on Hugo's Top eleven Slashers. Uh. Tony Todd, the actor who played Candy Man, made number fifty three on Retro Crushes a hundred Greatest Horror Movie Performances for

his role. The film appears in two sections of films dot org's Greatest Scary Movie Moments and Scenes and Greatest Movie Twist Spoilers and Surprise Endings. Um, and that's that's that's just all about the movie. I guess we gotta kind of talk about the plot. I noticed we talked everything. Also, we got to talk about here's one thing about candy Man that I wanted that I just remember that messed me up. So this is the poster. Yeah, I don't like that. I don't like that. But what does this

poster also look like? A coaster of Candyman shows a bee crawling into an eye and it looks very similar, and it's like a very washed out white eye, and it looks a lot like the Silence of the Lamb, Like, uh one, Silence of the Lamb came out, this came out in So I'm just saying somebody was copying somebody. I mean, maybe it's just one guy who's doing it. Yeah, he's like and he's like, all right, well we got

James and a giant peach. We don't want a peach on somebody knows, like, looks son that did you see the numbers that Silence of the Lamb was doing. Put a bug on a white face. Don't don't do nothing else. Put a bug on the face, because that's what we gotta do. So basically, the plot of Cannyman has Helen Lyle, who is a graduate student. This is very much the same as the short story who was researching urban legends

and here about the local story of Candyman. The legend came that claims that Candyman can be summoned by saying his name five times while face can mirror, whereupon he will kill the summoner with a hook jammed in the bloody stump of his right arm. She encounters two cleaning ladies who tell her about Ruthie Jean, a resident of the notorious Cabrini greenhousing project, who they claim was killed

by candy Man. Helen's research turns up twenty five other mayor other murders in the area similar to Ruthie Jeans. Later that evening, Helen and her friend Bernadette Walsh, skeptical of candy Man's existence, call candy Man's name into the mirror in Helen's bathroom and nothing happens. Helen learns from Professor Philip Purcell that Candyman was the son of a slave. Here we go, here's the juice of the origin of Cannyman.

Cannyman was the son of a slave who became posterous after developing a system for mass producing shoes in Civil War. So candy Man is a son of a slave who makes sneakers candy during the Yo man the katy once Yo, I need them during the Civil War. He grew up in a polite society and became a well known artist, sought after for his talent in producing portraits. After falling in love and with and fathering a child with a

white woman, he was hired to paint. In eighteen nine, Candyman was set upon by a lynch mob hired by his lover's father. They cut off his painting hand and replaced it with a hook. He was smeared with honey stolen from an apiary, attracting hungry, hungry bees, which stung him to death. A long way to go to just kill him, man. Yeah, His corpse was burned into pirate and his ashes were scattered across the area where Cabrini break states. So it was like, first off, take his hand,

m he can't paint no more. Also, we're gonna kill him, but he can't paint no more and heaving buster. Then then they was like, all right, we cut off his hand, what can you do? Not Well, I got it, honey, So we stole some funny bro and you know what I know, bees like honey, they're gonna sting him. We're gonna stay him to death. Then we're gonna burn his corpse,

and then we're just gonna sprinkle his ashes. And they're like, well, he did put in his wheel that he wanted his ashes sp and we know you gotta respect the will, even if we linched, and we gotta respect that will. And we're gonna sprinkle the ashes everywhere this plot is wild. Sprinkle his ashes and that and and and essentially they just yanked Poulter guyst They're like, it's all right, so that's the So, yeah, pulled your guys. You you were you,

you live on the barrel ground of natives. What if we take that use it for this. You just sprinkled slave. I mean, just keep coming. We built the projects on top of it. Okay, let me ask you something because again, I started watching this movie last night. I didn't finish it for multiple reasons. I was busy, it was I was busy. But okay, do they explain where he got

the hook from? And do they explain why his name is can't even uh, well, the hook it's they said they shoved it, the hook and the stump when they cut his arm off and lynched. Why that that is a wild thing. But I cut his hand off and put a hook on it. Ha ha, alright, we're gonna we're gonna burn you. Don't We're gonna burn you the dust and sprinkle you all over. Okay, maybe I need to rewatch you. Who knows? Maybe that was his family was like we gotta sprinkle. I don't know, that is wild.

So Helen decides to write a thesis on how the residence of Cabrina Breen used the Candyman legend to cope with the hardships of living there. She and Bernadette entered the housing project to visit the scene of Ruthie Jean's murders. There they meet Anne Marie McCoy, one of the residents, and a young boy named Jake, who tells Helen the disturbing story of a child who was castrated in a

public restroom by candy Man. While Helen explores the Rundown restroom, she is attacked by a gang leader who carries a hook and is assumed has assumed candy Man's moniker in order to enhance his street correct. I love when white people write gang violence name like he was a Rick Ross I'm candy Man, but I like that his something like for street cramps to be like, oh man, not not um um, young killer. Ain't hard enough candy Man, that's mr to blow your brains out. Not rough enough

candy Man, little shooter. Nah, candy Man, and I carry a hook for some reason. This is great um. Helen survives the assault and is able to identify her attacker to the police, who believe him to be responsible for the killings attributed to Candyman. Helen tells Jake that Candyman

is a made up character that isn't real. In a parking garage, Helen is confronted by the real candy Man, who explains that since Helen has discredited his lesson, he must shut innocent blood to perpetuate belief in himself and continue his existence. Are you trying to not make people believe in me? Also, I love that a coast from slave times comes back to the future and wants to kill more black people, Like that's really you ain't catching no white bodies because that'd be the number one on

my list after what happened to me. I'd be in from get in Chicago. I'm going to Manhattan, sex and the city is not being made because Samantha carry they all done. I might smash Somemantha actually me and Samantha getting married, but the rest of them done. Oh my gosh, this is wild. God. Oh yeah, this is great. Okay, Uh about sheddings in blood so people can believe in them.

I wish, By the way, another borrowed the concept because apparently the only way to defeat Freddy Krueger is to not believe, so so this is also we're borrowing from Freddy Krueger, and we've borrowed from Poulter Geist. Uh. Helen blacks out and wakes up in Anne Marie's apartment covered in blood, and Marie whose dog has been decapitated. Lot, yeah, we gotta go to break. When we get back, hopefully we'll find out why this dog with the Oh my god, this is wild. I'll see you in a second. Welcome

back to Nertifficent. We can't handle this, um if you wadway. Jeff Trammell right over there, we're reading through the plot of Candy Man. I'm glad we waited this long ado it. I'm glad we got all the making of the all that out of the way. Because the plot itself needs to be dived into. Because also another thing to remember while we're going through this plot is Key and Peele is rebooting this, So it's gonna be keep I keep calling Key and people, Jordan Peele my bad, Jordan's y'all,

y'all together for the rest of my life. Jordan Peele is remaking this. It's gonna be fun to see what he decides to keep and what he gets rid of. And I think it's gonna be along. Let's got a lot of the Chopper block if I'm reading. Oh my gosh, all right, Um, So the dog has been decapitated and Amory's baby Anthony is missing, and she attacks Helen. In

the midst of defending herself, Helen is arrested by the police. Trevor, Helen's husband, bills her out of jail, but candy Man appears to Helen again and cuts her neck, causing her to bleed to a point of unconsciousness, so she blacks out again. Bernadette appears at the apartment and is murdered by candy Man, who frames Helen for the murder. Helen is sedated and placed in a psychiatric hospital after a month's stay at the hospital, Helen is interviewed by a

psychologist in preparation for upcoming trial. She attempts to prove her innocence by summoning Candyman, who kills the psychologist else Helen to escape, making it harder to prove Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wasn't his goal to prove that he is a real thing? So why is he putting all these murders? I don't understand. Oh, I'm starting to remember last time I read this plot, and just you ain't ready. That's all I'm gonna say.

You are not and will never be ready, because now I'm remembering what happens, and I remember why it raced out of my memory. So she returns home and briefly confronts Trevor, who is now living with Stacy, one of his female undergraduate student students. Helen then flees to Cabrini Green to confront Candy Man and locate Anthony. Finding murals depicting candy Man's lynching. Helen tracks down candy Man, who tells her to surrender to him to ensure the baby's safety.

So candy Man has the baby. Baby has been missing for a month. A month at this point, Yeah, a month of baby. That's a toddler, that's no longer a baby. It's his baby. You don't get to give it back that baby for him up baby, all facts on the bad diet. Yeah, that's your baby now, don't try and give it back. Offering Helen immortal immortality, Candyman opens his coat to reveal a rib cage wreathing bees and kisses her.

After candy Man vanishes with Anthony, Helen finds a mural of candy Man alongside his lover, Caroline Sullivan, who bears a striking resemblance to Helen. This this in a message left by candy Man imply that Helen is a reincarnation of Sullivan. Candy Man promises to release Anthony of Helen helps him insight fear among Cabrini Green's residents. However, in order to feed his own legend, candy Man re nags

and attempts to immolate them all in a bonfire. When is lit by the residents, Helen manages to save Anthony while candy Man is destroyed in the fire, but Helen ultimately succumbs to severe burns. The residents, including Anne, Marie, and Jake pay their respects at her funeral, with Jake tossing candy Man's hook into her grave. Why I mean, why sprinkle of slave's ashes? Uh. Afterwards, Trevor and grief and guilt over Helen's death, faces his best bathroom mirror

and says Helen's name five times. As a result, Helen's vengeful spirit is summoned and kills Trevor with candy Man's hook, leaving his body to be found by Stacy and candy Man's former layer. A new mural of Helen with her hair ablaze is seen, showing she has now entered folklore

the end. So what I just learned from that? If he said her name five times, she came, then candy Man is this man's god given name, his parents or a slave master or someone was like yo name candy candy Man Johnson's candy Man Johnson right there, candy Man Berth all Emel Johnson. And you know he does some good pains. You get a candy Man Bertha all of New Johnson painting. You better put that on the wall. Yeah, everything about this is wild. The like protagonist essentially dies

becomes the villain at the end, which you know. I will say it is a solid twist, but the road to get there is way wild. I mean, I don't see why we have to body a dog in this process. That poor dog. That's all I could think about. Uh. And then and then like he kind of flips the script on her, like he was like, yeah, yeah, baby, I want you, But you slashed her neck a few hours ago, So what did you really want? Wasn't her? Oh my god, everything about this movie? What what is

Keegan Mike up? That was almost Eddie Murphy and Sandra Bullock with enough people backing out. So here's the thing. Okay, I'm not gonna like tear this movie apart, but I feel like we already have. If the only reason candy Man goes to that area is because they sprinkled his ashes, and what became that area, why did Helen come back to her home to murder him, unless someone took her ashes to that home. My thing is, if Canny make it just dyeing a fire, how hasn't he been bodied yet?

Because obviously this man is not immortal. This man can be killed. He died in the fire. This man could be shot by the mini guns available in this project. He has no one tried that? Why did candy Man not trying to kill the folk candy Man the gangster candy Man. I'm sure he's just got a quick kill scene. I'm sure you had to. You had You can't introduce him character like that, and we don't see him dies about we would just get um. Yeah, there's there's many

many questions I have. Once again, I'm still going to revisit. Why if you are back in civil weare war slave times for very you know, I don't even know if Kennyman made it Juneteenth. Uh, I don't even think he made it. Why are you coming back and killing black people like you should have died? If that's if that's how you handle your your greef. I mean, it seems like he would only kill white people, especially like white men, right because he was in love with a white woman.

So yeah, why is he killing and then after all these years still fall for a white woman who would have learned, didn't even get didn't want to try one sister, going to change your life. I've been sitting there eating good you are running back to Helen? Is this a movie about me? Uh? So, here's the other thing we know about the film. In September of two thousand and eighteen, it was announced that Jordan Peele was in talks to produce the sequel. Oh, it's a sequel, son, I'm hoping

it's a reboot, Yeah, through Monkey Paul Production. Uh. And Todd stated in a two eighteen interview with Nightmare on Film Street, I'd rather have him do it, someone with intelligence. It's gonna be thoughtful, uh, and dig into the whole racial makeup of who Candy Man is and why he existed in the first place. That is a very late shot. Yeah,

that definitely is a shot all shots. Uh. And then in November, it was confirmed that Peel was going to produce the film with Universally MGM partner with When Rosenfield to co produce. The film is going to serve as a spiritual sequel, Oh, taking place in the new gentrified Cabrini Green. So he's already fixing it. Oh yeah, He's like, we're not even gonna touch Yeah. Yeah, I'm loving it already.

So then, Um, in two thousand nineteen, we thought la Keith was going to uh possibly start in the film, but it actually uh turns out that I think yeah, in February two thousand, nineteen. Yaha, abdul Matine is gonna play the titular character, it says in talks about I know he's doing it because he just did a post about it. Um. But yeah, yeah was an aquaman. Uh, he was in us. He was he was the older he was um playing Lupetea's dad. Yeah yeah um. And now if his next is gonna be candy Man, so

he shout out to yah yah yeah. Oh he was on the get down as Clarence Cadillac. Uh. Caldwell played Omar in Handmade Sale. He was, oh, Carlin st striking Vipers. Yeah. So you remember that He's been in a lot of stuff. Oh yeah, So it's gonna be fun to see us see his take on the Candy Man. Um. And I'm super excited for that. I did, like we've I mean, you heard us read through it. You know that it has ups and has downs. I mean, what what do you think, Jeff? What are you excited for the new one?

Do you have any thoughts, something you wish they hope to visit or not. I mean, I'm very excited for the new one. I am curious in the other sequels if Helen's in them. You know that is that is interesting? Yeah, because they kind of do like give her, um, you know that she has the She's the new candy candy Man. The Candy Woman, followed by two sequels, candy Man Farewell to the Flesh and candy Man Day of the Dead. So let's see what farewell to the Flesh. Well, i'd

see a woman on this poster. So yeah, so on this one. Uh Coleman Tarrant father new school teacher murder while investigating the desk of three Men Candyman. One year later, three years after the Candyman murders in Chicago, candy Man is revealed to be Daniel Robertail, the son of a slave. Oh it's a new son of a new slave. It's a different Candyman. It's a different Gainey Man. Um. Yeah, it says Ginny Man is revealed to be Daniel Robertail, son of a slave on a plantation in New Orleans.

Daniel was chosen by a wealthy landover the only slaves could take the moniker of candy Man. You just pass it down like the flash, but it takes one. Oh you gotta be a slave. Uh yeah he was and he was also a painter. He painted culture of his daughter Caroline, resulting in an affair between the two. After Caroline became pregnant, Carlin's father organized a lynch mob to hut down Daniel. This is just the same movie cut off his right hand coat of honey from a nearby

b hug. It seems like, seems like back then, it's only one way to do a black man who sleeps with your wife. You cut off his head, you cover room and honey. My father did it. My father's father did it, and we're not changing the thing. Yeah. Yeah, So it's in this movie has a separate incident of someone and for some reason they're also a painter. That's that's also what I like, is also a painter, And yeah they they got lynch. And then there's the Day of the Dead candy man. So it's not it's not

the same guy. Not the same guy. So, several years after the events of the second film, the ghostly serial killer returns once again from beyond the grave, this time during the eve of Day of the Dead in l a. Um. Yeah, oh, I have no no, no, no clue. Um, But yeah, it seems like this time is the same same Katy Baby, it's the same one from the first one, same, the

same one for the second one. So Tony Todd only played Candyman and one of three movies A yeah, because because this one is a new one, and I think Todd might have been like, I ain't coming back for that. No, no, Tony Todd, No, this is the first kiddy Man. I'm looking at my bag. So maybe I'm gonna choose to believe that they're two different funniers. If there's two different if if that was just the way back then you

cut his right hand off. That's it. Jeez, Louise, oh man, Jeff, thank you so much for coming on chatting with me. This was the most fun scary episode that I think I'm gonna do in my life. Where can people find you? Thank you for having me. Uh, people can find me at Mr Jeff Trammel on Twitter and Instagram. U J E F F t R A M M E L L MR with an m R. I spelled it all. I don't I don't know I did it that way. You guys knew if someone does a candy Man counter,

please let us know how much? How many times he said, let us know how dead we are. Anything you want to promote, make people check out. Man, Um, I mean, Craig of the Creek is a show on Cartoon Network. You can watch on Cartoon Network app uh new premier for Halloween this year or this yeah this month, coming out soon, so check that out. If you follow me on Twitter, I'm sure I'll tweet about it. Um. Also,

thank you so much for having me. I'm trying to do twenty podcast this year, which doesn't sound like a big goal when you're like Paul if Tompkins or somebody. But when you're just weak. Yeah, when you're just like me, uh not not the easiest thing. I'm currently at ten. Thanks, Iffy, So thank you so much for having me again. Yeah, a lot of people came through when I posted about on Twitter, Gabriel some other people. You were like, yo,

come on tomorrow. Yeah I three. I can. I can at least get three ticks because I do have legitimate have three podcasts. Uh so yeah, I'll be talking to about those other two. Um. Yeah, you've done like you know, if people Craig of the Creek really jumping out at you. You did the Sailor Moon inspired character that like lit the on five. Yeah, you have you have you done a DBC inspired character yet or DBC inspired We do a lot of DBC references, but we haven't done one

yet that we're going to do one. Yeah, come through, you know a thousand percent at least DBZ or Jojo. I'll hit you with both of us, oh man, and you know me. If you away on Twitter and Instagram, if D's on Twitch, Uh yeah, let's uh just keep hopping the disc chord Discord dot g G slash Salt Squad if you want to keep the conversation going flickery my mom always keeping the footnotes in there. Uh. If you don't want to, just click on the footnotes being

on in the app. Uh. And yeah, thanks for listening and us always stay nerdy.