Episode 63: Wonder Woman

pumping through me. I'm ready to attack. This is actually kind of a big app you know, because I mean, this is the first one we've done in a while that one of us has been a hyper huge Well that's why I kind of pushed it off, because well, it's such a big it's such a big topic, and um, it covers a lot. And when you're you know, considered someone that knows a lot about it, you there's a lot of pressure. Even though she is my o G superhero, best of all time, the Goat, the one and only.

But before we get into her, we have an expert here, uh Tamara Brooks, who's a writer of all things. Thanks for joining us, Thank you for having me. It's going pretty well. You're always my wonder Woman. Like we've been on Wonder Woman panels together at like Comic Con l a comic con. Wonder constant ego comic con. You're You're always my go to for You're just such a wealth of knowledge. I appreciate that greatly. She is my favorite. She is my guiding light in life. She is part

like no joke. Like without the Linda Carter Wonder Woman series, I don't know what kind of person I'd be because I probably have been drunk with power from being so tall as a kid. Um. But I was watching her show and it's like, well, but she's tall. She uses her powers to help people, and I should help people that everyone in your family is also super nerdy, Like I went to lunch with your family at comic was it a comic wonder Yeah, her family loves me, by

the way, your mom has adopted me. But like your family, I think we argued like everybody was there, and it was literally arguing about representation and comics like who is the best like Batman or who? Like it was all

of the It was so funny at the table. Yeah, it's And it's funny because my mom, who never was like a nerd nerd when we were kids, but like always kind of watch stuff with us, and she was a nerd about certain things, like she loved Dynasty, and she loved Dallas, and she loved like certain TV shows were like her jam but like you know, it wasn't like the same you know thing like she like really like soaps and all that kind of stuff. Um, but

she is, uh, she's a teacher. She was one of the um uh first Uh she's at the forefront of antibios education in California and probably everywhere. So like that was like I am partially the way I am because of her, you know, genetics and all that stuff, and because she's always been about you know, representation and uh, you know, teaching kids how to just see each other

as people and stuff like that. So um yeah, yeah, she's And so it's funny now because she will watch all these Marvel movies and all DC movies or whatever, but it'll take about like a year for her to see them because she waits until they're on like TBS and so so like it'll be like a year and a half ago will go by, and then my mom will call me one day and she's like, I just saw Batman the Superman, and you know, she just just start talking about her opinions about it. It's actually pretty great,

Like oh no, we already went. We are. But it's adorable because it's like, you know, a grenade of reactions, you know, like she just throw it and you had wait for like a real long time before Mom's goes off. So um so yeah, And so sometimes she'll call me and have questions about stuff, like she has very definitive opinions about um, all the things that she watches. She very much likes Henry Calvil. She thinks Ben Affleck was a good Batman, but did not like the movie at all.

She did not think it was well written. So that's what my mom says, she shouldn't start her own YouTube channel. I know, I keep thinking about doing like a short thing with my mom and just being like five minute mom interviews or that's hilarious. So we normally start our podcast with what people are seeking out about? What are you seeking out about? This week? It's two different things on very different sides of the spectrum. So one is

the Cartoon Network series Summer Camp Island. It is the cutest, most adorable thing I've ever seen in my life, but also not like Saccarin too much in a way, but like it's about these like kids who are actually animals, but they're people, you know, at this at the summer camp that's on the island that turns out to be magical.

So the camp counselors are witches, and the trees talk, and there's a moon that says stuff, and there's like Yettie and all that stuff, and then um, the main character's pajamas have a little face and it's his friend, and it's just so cute but also just like really enjoyable and it's very soothing because of the world's on fire.

So that's one thing. The other thing old murder mystery shows I have been watching really, yes, I've been watching a lot of Matlock Murder, she wrote, and heart to Heart because I am also a insomniac, so so I'm like it's three in the morning when I'm oh, look murder, she wrote, Let's get a cracking heart to heart Hello. Yeah. Yeah, So that's and it's also, you know, as a writer, looking at the way that stories evolve is really interesting.

And I like mysteries a lot, but I don't tend to write them, so it's like kind of looking at that process is also really interesting to me. And then seeing like a bunch of guest stars from back in the day. That's also, yeah, that's true. What about you, Danny? When are you into? When are you nerd out about? Right now? You know, there's two things that will throw in there. Um. One is Glow season three is drop their trailer. They're coming out really excited about that. I

pretty much binge it the second that it drops. That's what I do. Uh. The second is, I guess I haven't talked about Ship's Creek, which is like for everyone that watches it is like duh. But there's still so many people that haven't seen it yet. And I see people tweet like, why did no one tell me about this show? Um? It is amazing. In fact, Dan Levy, who is Eugene Levy's son and they play father and son in the series, just won an MTV Award this past weekend, and he started at MTV he was a host,

so that's pretty cool that it's come full circle for him. Um, such a great show. Catherine O'Hara probably like my favorite that I've ever seen her. She's Oh my gosh, it's like all of her roles like just combined. She gets to play a kind of washed up actress in this and so she gets to combine like every role that you've probably seen her in and her accents are crazy and she's just she's so funny. Um. But it's perfect ensemble cast, Like the writing is so quick, so funny.

I can't say enough about it. I've watched like the first several seasons multiple times and now they're on um I think season five or six. But yeah, seeing every episode, it is amazing. Um. Can I add one thing because I forgot about it to the amazing world of Gumball. Also never show that like surprisingly nobody talks about. But it's like the trippiest, most awesome, Like they'll have like crazy like existential episodes and uh, you know, they had

a thing where like they they change animation style. So there's an episode with their mom fighting a childhood friend that turned into anime at the end, Like it was just it's a great show, guys, It's a great show. Check out show what about you, Iffie? You know, as always,

I'm ginking about some video game or another. And the two video games I'm geeking out about now is the first one is Death Guarden Blood Harvest, which is made by Bad Behavior, the same folks who made uh Dead by Daylight, which is if you don't know Dead by Daylight, it's a horror game where it's a team of five survivors versus one monsters. And what's cool is they've done like collapse with actual horror I p so leather faces

in the game. You have uh the saw pig in the game and other different things and you have abilities. So they went and it's kind of the same format, but instead of being horror, it's more action and it takes place in this dysatopian future where in order to make it into the enclave, which is where all the cream of the crop people, you fight your way through the slums and you have to survive in the death garden the blood hardest and you collect blood uh sacrifice

it and then eventually it'll open the door. But there are hunters there. There's one main hunter who is hunting you down. So there's uh about five players who are scavengers trying to survive. You don't have any type of lethal weapons or abilities. All your abilities or mobility hiding based.

One of the characters I like to use, H has active CAMO that drops an a O E area of effect on the ground that makes you invisible and can run away, and you just have to try and collect things while this machine gun bad guy is just chasing you around. It's essentially just crazy tag. It's deadly tag.

And the other game is Judgment, which is made by the same developers of the Yakuza series, except this one is a detective game, where like you are a private investigator and you take on missions, but like they can be as simple as find out if someone's wife is cheating on them, and as you know, goes deeper than that. And I'll probably just be playing that NonStop because it's fun. I haven't played any of the other Yakuza game, so this seems like a fun place to start. But that's

what I've been thinking about. Well, I think it's time that we hop into our our Woman of the Hour, the Woman wonder, the woman, the myth, the legend, wondrous and a woman. Yeah, she's um super dope. She is one of the first superheroes just period, especially the ones that still exists and right now. Um. She She and Captain America debut in the same year, so about ten aouts of parts. So she was and um also interesting because their colors are the same. Yeah, and the same

pretty similar and the American flag essentially. Yeah, and it's interesting because they kind of both did come from a place of challenging society at the moment, because you know, Captain America is very much hate punch Nazi. Yeah so, and then she also punches Nazis because that's also a thing that you're supposed to do. But like, um, you know, Captain America was very much about, um, you know, kind of like an immigrant ideal, like rising up for your

country kind of situation. And Wonder Woman is a feminist ideal, which when you say feminism, you don't think nineteen forties, but hey, that stuff existed then yeah. Yeah, do you want to talk about her creator? Yes? So her creator who there's a movie about him and this this whole situation. Um, did you like it? I didn't end up seeing it yet because I'm behind on everything. Um, but I like the cast and it looked cool, so I'm definitely it's on my list. I'm like, I have fourteen episodes of

Superdult Girl. Everything's been on fire, Like I'm so behind on everything, but um, yeah, so. William Molton Marston UH is also known for um developing the polygraph and also the basically the blood pressure uh you know the system. Yeah, he created the systolic blood pressure tests, which was one component that they used for a polygraph. Yeah, so you know the same thing that tells you make sure that

you don't like blow your lid because you're too stressed. Also, thanks to the guy who created Wonder would well, it's interesting connection because she has a lasso of truth and

that was like a truth telling machine. So it's definitely like his I believe he developed a polygraph first, which is how that and that also kind of in developing the polygraph, he found out that during his tests that women responded much differently under pressure and better under the pressures of the tests, and so that was kind of that kind of tied into his you know, he's married to a very strong woman. They was, you know, she's

really awesome. She was actually very paramount. And actually the creation of Wonder wound because when he said, hey, I want to create this character that does this that that

she's like great, make it a woman. Um, so he already has these ideals of you know, women are really dope, we should maybe listen to them and maybe they should run more stuff and uh you know, you know, and and the fact that he wanted to it a character that girls could look up to and be good with being feminine and not just being you know, like a masculine version. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we've I think we talked about this on a panel that we were on that

they that their strength and femininity. I think a lot of times they think that they have to give them male traits. And there's something about Wonder Woman being like the thing that I liked in her um in the movie was that she when she walked by a baby and it was like it's a baby, you know, like it was such a They still kept that element of

her um. But yeah, So speaking of Elizabeth Marston, she was a psychologist and an attorney and professor Marston who created Wonder Woman, you know, essentially with her or inspired by her and their life partner Olive Burne, who is important because they were in a polyamorous relationship. I was just reading up on this. Yeah, yeah, you should watch

the movie. Um so, and I will say that there's an interesting thing about that where that was that's a conclusion that was made that's never been verified, that's true that Yeah. Yeah, so I just want to say that because it's really interesting and I think we really really want to believe it and it actually makes a lot of sense. But a lot of respect for the family, I would like to at least bring up the fact that we don't know if that's a hunter, I understand.

I also think at that time there's no way you could be a queer woman openly, right, your family probably so she so um and alive. At least this is rumored. I guess. Then we'll say that all have had female lovers. And that is another reason why I mean, to us, wonder woman is queer, she's seen as a queer character.

That is always an interesting thing with you know, blanks, things like these not being confirmed by the family, because this is like, uh, you know, I want to talk to the friends then, because because like a lot of sectually with especially when it comes to queer and stuff like this, it's always like, well, were you not confirming it? It's like, are you not confirming it because you didn't see it happen or because you don't want it to be part of their legacy because you think it's a

bad thing. But and you know, and and it's in society from a society perspective, They probably felt like they couldn't say anything like yeah, because to be honest, the latter is essentially worse because then you would think, okay, maybe there there was a Well then then now we're like, all, like, what did this happen? Either way, they seem to have had a dope unit and it was absolutely and it worked.

And I think that everybody wants it to be true now because we because not even because the salaciousness of it, but because that's just super dope. That's like just it's a really positive way that it's not women competing with each other, or at least maybe in the beginning they kind of were, and then they ended up, you know, not you know, realizing that they work better as a team. And yeah, so let's hop into Diana Prince. So let's just do the nitty gritty and we'll just say that.

Wonder Woman is a superhero appearing in the American comic books published by d C Comics. The character is a founding member of the Justice League, and the character first appeared in All Star Comics number eight in October ninety one, with her first feature being in Sensation Comics number one in January nine two, and you were you had like a dope ut fact when we drop a little knowledge. I got. So I got to go on the DC Archives tour, which is amazing. Um, I wanted to stay

in there forever. Uh. And I found out that basically the All Star Comics UH story was a condensed version of like that's part of the reason why there's so much like text on all the boxes and stuff, because they only had like five D eight pages in there. Um, and they wanted to basically have a trailer before her comic came out for real in January. So um, that was a that was a nice little yeah that I didn't Yeah, did you get to see it? And I got? I got, I got who hold it in a special

case obviously what I said. So you posted a picture of the DC Archives and my first thought was like, these are sex toys because it was a whip. It was like that looked like something else and there was like but it's so funny because relating back to Professor Marston, he was that he was into S and M and they and it was interesting that they had like that.

This was actually brought up that people were accusing him of having bondage, spanking, homosexuality like in his comics, which again this was in the forties, so it's like to me, it's super dope and like slid that in there. But anyway, it definitely some of those the original DC archive like stuff. I'm like, yeah, I could I see what they were doing well. And also I think that it seems like it's really like out of ordinary for that kind of

slacious stuff to be in the books. But if you actually look at the comics from back then, like the third Easy mean, they've got crazy stuff going on. There's a lot of like female vigilantes that like merk dudes left and right, and like like we had water up, but we had water propaganda. But also these men were reading these during like that we're going to war, you

know what I mean. They were like so in the same way that early pornography, you know, like they had some of those maga the pin up and she looks like you know, to some extent. Although he definitely kept her, she was definitely sexualized later. I think her early stages were not as much and you can and those and also her that skirt in that first episode that first issue is not actually skirts cots. You can actually clearly.

Isn't that funny? Yeah, they're just flowing breathe. Um, we have I know this is gonna this is gonna be a three hour there's so much. Uh so. She her official title is Princess Diana of themis Cia also known as Paradise Island. Um. That's what I told it forever because my first comic was of her, was her original run from Marston and they called it Parents. Yeah. Yeah, and that's also why. And she's a daughter of Hippolita.

That is also why. I'm a hardcore old school O g that she came from Clay because that was her original that has been changed a couple of times. I don't know what you're talking about. We have to ika. Yes she is uh, this is from Wikipedia. She has no father, which is what I guess you and I subscribe to UM. But she was created by Zeus. There are there are issues where Hippolita and I believe Athena

are fighting over Zeus. I think that's as a Rillo's run and I dated that because we went from essentially we went from women being like this island of women were all together. We're like, you know, we're not each other's competition to these two women fighting over a dudes. And on top of that, they made it so that a bunch of the other Amazons would make fun of her and call her clay, which I was also is dumb and awful and like, I just hate everything pretty

much that they did, except for Cliff Chang's art. Like, I just don't know what you're saying. Brian as Arello went and did this, like, you know, almost stereotypical representation of woman, the same Brian as Arello who made Cage. I actually like Cage. I like as much as as much as most people hate it, right, I think, um, I think Jeff was saying how much he didn't like it either. Was that the first time because I don't want I mean, I don't want anyone to write it.

Is that the first time that they had that, that they had the two of them fighting over as far as I know, as far as I know, so like, yeah, so the origin kind of so she gets made out of clay, which is, by the way, Greek origin myths. So I don't understand why making her chick hercules makes anymore Greek mythology, but whatever, So she starts out being

made by Clay given life. Yeah, so Robert Canninger when he took over in the I believe was the early sixties, he expanded on her myth so that that's where all the gods giving her various gifts came from. So that's the you know, as beautiful as aphro diety. And then that's where that came from. That was the period that that came from. So that was the beginning of the Silver Age and so um, then she got depowered because the Amazons had to leave this dimension. That's when she

became a spy. And then she got her powers back in the early seventies. If you're wearing all white outfit with a gun in like a mad dress's And then at one point she was well she started out as a secretary, but technically and Justice League well secretary, but that was to like hide her amongst the normi people. Yes, yeah that that, yeah, as opposed to then being despite being the most powerful person there being the Justice League secretary. Shout out to the Comics Code everybody for messing up

a whole lot of women's comics during that time. Yeah a lot. Yeah, So we are going to break down the rest of her origin as well as her transition throughout the comics right after this and we're back. If you did you want to take us through the golden age of Wonder Woman, I mean, you know, if you need, if you need me to do that. So well, this is udly one of my favorite. I think it's because it was my first comics that I read of her. Now I have like an omnibus of that original her

forties run. But it was because she was saying things that you weren't supposed to say back then. As a woman, she was doing things that you weren't supposed to do, and for me, it just meant that much more as much I love her today, seeing that they actually published this stuff back in the forties, with like what she was saying and doing, it just meant a lot to me.

So it's it's also like in our Looney Tunes episode, there is stuff of that time which is racist, um, and they're aware of it, but the rest of it is a good truck for her origin story. Initially, Wonder Woman was an Amazon champion who wins the right to return Steve Trevor, who was a United States Intelligence officer who's playing a crash on the Amazon's isolated up island to the Man's World and to fight crime in the evil of the Nazis. And during this period, Wonder Woman

joined the Justice Society of America as the team's secretary. Actually, it's really interesting because I think it was his. It was either a nurse or his like this kind of flip flopped. But remember she took the name of Diana Prince because there was instead of just shortening her name,

which she literally used Diana, A pretty says. They like had this whole thing where there was another woman named Diana Prince and she takes her, she takes she takes her name tag or whatever opposed I don't know who came back the editor that was like, it doesn't make

sense to shorten her name. We need another person that actually has that name, you know, because I guess she wouldn't know about falsifying documents back then, but like, did you really need a falsified documents in the follies anything? But essentially they did that in the movie they had her. He's like, oh, this is my secretary, Diana. And it's also very similar like the Wonder Woman TV show, which

we'll get into later. But that pilot is a really, really really accurate to Golden Age Wonder Woman, Like it's really like an encapsulation of kind of what that was like. Even though I do think Diana is a little I don't want to say softer in in the TV show because I don't mean that necessarily, but she's like they definitely play up the loving part of it, you know, so versus a lot of the stuff that we've seeing like Justice Leaden Limited, where she's a lot hard, harder,

which would we also get into that later as well. Yeah, so the Silver Age you kind of already talked about it, but what should people know? She so she was depowered? She go ahead, Okay, so the there's two two major things happened in the Silver Age. So the first thing is that she gets depowered. Um, and that happens in the about mid sixties, uh, going into the early seventies. And uh. Part of this, you know, was because of the popularity of the British show The Avengers, which was

spy based. Yeah, and so I'm appeared. Yeah, she was like a huge, huge deal. So they're like, okay, well, you know, let's do this with Diane and she'll do spy stuff and karate chop people and all that kind of stuff. And um, I think that that was a in retrospect, that was the thing that hurt her because during this time period, all her other contemporaries are getting the characters that would end up being really powerful rogues

when they get like reinterpreted in the eighties. But you can't really use most of her villains from that time because they are spy villains and as a powered up wonder woman, she would annihilate them, you know what I mean, Like there's like, no, there's no real real matchup there. So um. That ends up running for about eight years or so. Um, and then about seventy two she gets her powers back and at that point, uh, she they do a movie with Kathy Lee Crosby based on that

seventies the spy era level. It does Okay, people aren't like super into it. It's fine. Uh. And then a couple of years later, I think exactly two years later than the Linda Carter pilot airs and everybody loves it, they decided to go back to the original Golden Age version of it, and that show runs for three or four seasons, and she came up with the spinning she did. Yes, yeah, she added that as a way to because they weren't able to show on television, like how in the world

does she transformed? Yeah, yeah, exactly, So um and So that have a booth like a Superman exactly, she didn't

have a booth. And like even though in the earlier episode they do this kind of time lapse thing where you see her like like magically like shifting or clothes um And they do a lot of echoing of that in art that you see where you see like it's like five images of her and it's like she's in the thing and then it's the and and that's kind of that's what that's harkening back to um And So in the comics, she Um is you know, she has her powers now, she's a full fledged member of the league.

She's flourishing now in the seventies with her powers back and from the popularity of this TV show, and that's kind of what makes her, uh, you know, a much more well known character around the world. In addition, they also have the Challenges super Friends show that starts on TV, so that also helps bolster not just her place, but you know, people kind of didn't know, some of these

other characters until the show starts at it. So, um So, now you have this period of the mid to late seventies, so the like mid eighties where d C isn't having this really big push and Wonder Woman is really really entrenched in all that. Um it was interesting because it was the same time in the seventies that the Bionic Woman show came out. They were definitely trying to It was just an interesting time for women too, for representation on TV. And you know, and Charlie's Angel started not

too long after that and Cagney Laces. I really do feel like I think the successive Wonder Woman really did help bolster a lot of this stuff kind of like oh, black Panthers doing well, Oh they want to see black superheroes, you know, like it's that that thing where like one thing is successful and then they want to make a bunch of other ones because they see people actually watched Yeah exactly, we had no idea what um so yeah.

So so that was a really interesting period. So the and in the seventies eras usually is known as the Bronze Age um seventies to like yeah to like mid eighties, early nineties um. And so what's really interesting Then at this point d C and the Comics has a bunch of multiple different Earths. So Paradise Island is what the island is actually called on like I think Earth two and four, and then it's the Mascara on Earth like

one and six. You know. So when Crisis on Infinite Earth's happens, um, all this stuff gets collapsed into one timeline. So a lot of the different versions of different people kind of go away, you know, they you know, reformat things.

And this is also a next Golden Era, I would say, and for people that just because we talked about Crisis on Infinite Earths another episode, but just to remind people, yes, the Crisis on Infinite Earths is and be prepared for this if you watch the Flash and the c W, it is an event that could cause the extinction of life on every single planet in the multiverse, um, every every single to mention in the multiverse in the DC universe.

So all the heroes of basically every dimension get together, at least the surviving ones at that point, get together to stop this calamity. Uh. This is where Barry Allen dies or disappears in the Speed Force depending on which air of comic you read. Um and and this sets up a lot of really interesting stuff going forward. And this collapses all the history of every single Earth into one. For example, Um the Huntress was initially from Earth to

and she's the daughter of Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle. Um. When after the collapse happens, she gets brought back as Helena Burton Nelly, who is the daughter of a mob boss who gets murdered in front of her, and then she becomes a vigilante. So they keep a lot of the characters, but then they kind of switch them up based on, you know what, what's going on there. So in this case, the Mascara is now officially the name of the island. Period Wonder Woman is a little bit younger,

but she still has the same basic origin. So and and this is this is the beginning of what what is the foundation of most modern Wonder Woman's stuff is George Perez's run. That's h and he that was like a ten year run, I think on the book. George Perez, who did Crisis on Infinite Earth. He is many people's

favorite Wonder Woman writer. Yeah, and one of their favorite artists too, because he and and he you know he also ifview the name sounds familiar from other books, is because he did Titans, he did Christ and Ears, he did the j L A Avengers thing that came out, and like the two Thousands, he did a Supermarri Like he's like everywhere and most likely that curly haired version of Wonder Woman where her hair is like really kind of cool and defined and she's like pretty decently buff. Uh.

That is George Perez. That's like because she got like toned up in the seventies, but like fully buff wonder Woman Amazonian. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She looks like she could kick your ass in a decathalon because she could, and you know what I mean. Like so that Perez run Um takes the the kind of best stuff from before

and really like gives it a lot a new new life. Um. He also does the imbument of powers from the Gods, but instead of it just being like, oh, you're really pretty, it's like she can talk to animals, she can um her image. She's immortal. But one of the things that she can do to heal if she's gravely injured, she can lay in the earth and cover herself and earth and get healed. Because she's up the Earth, because she's the Earth. So that's a lot of really cool stuff

that comes out of that. And so she thrived for a really long time. Um, and then the nineties happened, and the nineties was kind of weird. This is about when I started reading comic books. So the nineties are really weird because there's a lot of like really awesome stories that were happening during that period with a lot of off putting art for me. So, yes, so we're going to talk about Yeah, we're gonna talk about Artemis real quick. Um. So in this modern contemporary age, especially

in the nineties, this kicks off. The eighties in particular, was an era of I think a lot of people will call it more adult storytelling. This is where the Dark Knight gets that gets to be the Dark Knight, you know. This is where a lot of comics that people are saying are the best comics ever made they get made during this period. Um, and so they're experimenting

more with this stuff. This Jason Todd gets killed. Uh you know, like Superman, Like they actually Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman all lose their mantles, all within like two years of each other like this period of like five years, everybody gets there, their titles usurped from them for various reasons, and Wonder Woman is no uh no exception to this.

So they find this lost tribe of amazons Um called the Bonna mcdal and they are real hardcore and they're like and so the when they come back to the island, they're like, Okay, well we weren't here during the contest of Champions, so we should be able to do the contes as the champions too. So they take their best warrior, Artemis, and she actually in so Diana is no longer technically a wonder Woman. This is where if you've ever seen a picture of her wearing bicycle shorts, this is where

that comes from. All of her iterations are so like her eighties. There was one in the eighties and she just looked like she was like in Madonna's music video or something. You know what I'm talking like, I think she had a leather jacket. Yeah, that's that's that's the same one. It's a leather jacket with the bicycle shorts in the top. Yeah, she looks like she's in a music factor but specifically, but I'm not gonna lie because

the new Wonder Woman that's dropping. Um, I believe we're not going to get it in twenty nineteen yet, now aren't we? Okay? I think, Um, I have a computer in front of me. I could literally look. Plus, I retweeted when Patty Jenkins, yeah pretty sure. Yeah, Wonder Woman four literally takes place in eighty four, as it says, UM, So I'm kind of curious if they're going to put her in. I would love to see Diana in eighties

where yes, she has to be to blend in. I've seen a couple of like photos from like you know, the shoot or whatever, and I try not to look at them very much because I don't like being spoiled the head of things too hard because I already guess what happens in movies without it. But I just was so curious about her clothes. There is some shoulder pads

happening in one of the outfits, so definitely. And I saw one picture of another person and in the most eighties track suit, and I can't wait to see it. But I will say, you know, if we're talking about her outfit, I want to call attention to UM. The poster for eighty four, which people are like, oh, it's like Metropolis, and it's like this. That's true, it is

very visually similar to that stuff. But I also want to point out that in the comics, one of my favorite things that she has for her alternative outfits is her eagle armor, which has these giant golden wings on them and like this giant helmet, and I just think it's so great. So I feel like that I'm getting Eagle armor. It also kind of looks like Donna Troy's rebirth costume in a way, like the way that's armored. Um, So we'll see how that goes, and if you haven't

seen it, we'll post a link to it. It's like such a pretty it's so pretty. It's a gorgeous post. All of her posters the movie, the first one that came out, Oh my gosh, there was one of her lifting a tanker, like a tank remember that, And I just that was my favorite. Well, I'm so I marked really hard for that one, and I'm not gonna lie. I was trying to keep my my hopes down for the movie, to be honest, because I was really afraid.

I was like, like, I was really nervous like I was legitimately actually afraid that the movie was going to be bad, because I'm like, I'm going to die before they make another one of a movie if it does not do well, you know what I mean, Like it'll I'll be eighty five, It'll be you know, we'll have flying cars and still not have another Wonder Woman. Um,

so I'm really really happy that it got made. Well, yeah, we have to take another quick break and then let's hop into the movies and the future of Wonder Woman. Welcome back, y'all. We I will be under with those message is and then we're back to talk some more. Wonder Woman sitting across me always, Danny, how you feel? You know, this is my queen. I could spend three hours talking about her, but we only have an hour ish. So this is just the breakdown of our lady trying

to get through it as fast as we. I wanted to ask you, so, you know, Wonder taught and Wonder Girl. Yeah, this is the thing that we should definitely get into. So Wonder Woman, as far as I know, is the only female hero that is originally just her, not named after a dude or anything like that that has sidekicks. Or iterations named after her, but she is that she is Wonder Girl, right, okay, yes, so let's get okay. So this is a very confusing thing. This is another

thing that happens the other ones. It's like a sidekick, but she actually is Wonder Girl. Yeah, there's okay. So in the fifties, I believe it was they did a lot of like side stories and side adventures of you know, Diana as a kid and she was a Wonder Girl, and so it's her as varying ages between like eight and fourteen doing different stuff. There's also in these stories another adventure that's even cuter with her as a kid, as a baby, like as a toddler, and she's called

Wonder Todd. And then sometimes there were adventures that had Wonder Woman, Wonder Girl and Wonder Todd, which is real confusing. It's kind of like super Boy the Adventures of super Boy and that the same time period. It's kind of like that they just had this thing where they're doing

multiple versions. So what ended up happening is when they did the original Teen Titans comic in the sixties, they decided to make Wonder Girl a different person, and so that that became Donna Troy and her origin initially was that wonder woman saved a baby from a burning building and it was a girl, and because her family had died in that building, she brought her back to the island and they trained her up and she grew up there.

And so then she started hanging out with everybody else's sidekicks. And so it was her, and it was Dick Race and Robin it was as Aqua Lad, the original Aqua Lad and Speedy doing various adventures. Um. And they added team members and it became the Titans Juggernaut that we know now. Um. So when Crisis happened, they cleaned a lot of that up because that was like back then

because continuity, who cares. Nobody was thinking about continuity. They weren't like the nerds that we are now where we like want to put everything in a timeline and do all that stuff. They're just like, is this fun okay? Because we're gonna do it because they just wanted to tell these stories. So Crisis cleaned that up. Um. They did subsequently really really jack up Donna Troy's origin, like

multiple times. Uh, Donna Troy, I do love She's one of my favorite characters, so like it pains me a little bit, how like how rot like because it then it then it became speaking of her actually being Diana. So they the last origin they had before they had the next reboot was she was actually a mirror selection of Diana that one of the sourcesses on the island gave gave life to so that Diana can have someone to play with because she was the only child on

the island. And then this uh evil angel uh comes and kidnaps her and subjects her to a lot of like terrible traumatic lives because she's got beef with the Holida and just wants to torture her. And so that I don't necessarily agree with that origin, but that was an interesting way of trying to kind of loop back in this thing of Diana was a wonder girl and also wonder talk and wonder woman all at the same time.

We should probably tackle her weapons or her tools. So we talked a little bit about the Lasso of truth um, which it does what it says. It compels people to tell you you cannot tell a lie if you are under the influence of this thing. It also has varying versions of it the ability for her to compel you to do things. So um, they used a lot in the TV series from the seventies where she would like get a henchman and then be like, Okay, I want go turn yourself into police, and then they go do it.

She also had she also had an invisible plane. Her Funko pop doll that comes with it is like super dope. My favorite's like a clear plane. It is. It's great. It's just like the scenes from the TV show. My favorite thing is people are like, well, that's silly. You can see her through the plane. I'm like, you can see her through the plane because otherwise you'd just be looking at a static shot of the sky. It's just

like casually outlines. Yeah, she has her bracelets of submission bulletproof bracelets, which we did get to see in live action in the movie too. Um. Yeah, they tend to have erased the submission bracelets. Um. They talk about them in the in the first season of the seventies Wonder Woman, but they after well now they're just her iconic bracelets.

But again going back to this, like S and M like bracelets of submission, there was um, well, and also there's a thing of if you look at Greek mythology, the whole reason why the Amazons are at their island is because Zeus, crappy kid Hercules came and stole hippolodas girdle and then enslaved and abused all the Amazons, and so once they escaped, the reason why they wear the bracelet stills to remind them that they escaped. Yeah. Actually

Marston said that in the nineteen forty two interview. He said, Wonder Woman and her sister Amazon's have to wear heavy bracelets to remind them of what happens to a girl when she lets a man conquer her. Again. So fascinating that he was such a feminist in the forties. Soup like, like, you think it's so forward thinking, but it's really just thinking that's been around here for a long time, that's

been depressed. It's crazy, I think, Yeah, No, I totally understand what we've talked about this before, about people that were ahead of their time or having to really go against the grain during these times um to kind of slide this these messages in there. And I think that because of her history and the comics of constantly being affected by the greater happenings of society. It's not ironic, but it's kind of fitting that she kind of keeps

getting messed with depending on what's going on in the world. Right, So, you know, in the seventies, part of the reason I think that she got her powers back is because she became like Gloria steinhum like really like championed her as not just a hero, but like an ideal of you know, ideal of peace, Like you don't have to fight all the time, like, you know, a lot of wonder Woman's capabilities are defensive largely, even though she could just take out a whole bunch of people real fast, but she's

trying to reform them a lot of times. She wants them to be better people. Yeah, she believes in us, even when we don't deserve it. And um, it's hard for her to understand. I mean, when she's brought into our world, it's like it's so difficult for her to understand why we do, why we're so terrible, we're so terrible. I mean, you would you came from a place called Paradise Island. And again I love the shade that it's

Paradise Island. It's all women. Um, and uh, well another person that I we brought up, George Press, would be you know, remiss if we didn't bring up Gail Simone, who um our Twitter friend gayl someone if you don't follow her, she's constantly roasting men that challenged her and other comic book people who like own her comics. Like like, she like posted a picture. I forgot what she was talking about, but someone's like, do you even know this?

And she was like, she posted a picture and they were like so, and she's like, look at the names on all the comics. It was. It was just like literally a library full of all of the comics that she's written, way more than one Er Woman but also

iconically known for writing one Er Woman. Yeah, I think that he was trying to roaster about Daredevil and she took a picture like her book was written for so many characters, also created women in Fridges, which we've talked about on other episodes on our Bechtel episode, but definitely check that out or google it if you don't know. And uh, just like completely redefined the Secret Six and made them super awesome. And she's just every pretty much every book she has a run and she does great

things on Birds of Prey. Uh. You know, she's partly responsible for Oracle being as dope as she was because they were just going to leave Barbara in that wheelchair

and you know whatever. Um, but I digress about that. Yeah, Gail Simone, Uh, her run was really cool because one of the things that she was doing because I kind of briefly talked before about how a lot of people say that one Er Woman didn't have a good um rogues gallery, which is not entirely true, but it's hard to find great examples of these runs because her runs

keep getting subverted by all this other weird stuff. So Gail did a really great job on kind of showing new ways of looking at her rogues gallery and bringing in new characters like Devastation. Who is this basically ten year old god of destruction, like wonder Woman sitting here trying to like basically fighting a tiny murder god. You know, Like that's kind of dope, you know, and and um, yeah, she did a touch of really cool stuff in the book,

like definitely pick it up. I mean, I have a list of recommendations, um, and that's on that for sure. But so let's talk about the movie. If you can't remember did you did we see it together? I don't think we saw it together because I saw it in a plane. Okay, never mind, I don't think the theater. Yeah,

I remember, I saw it with UM. I got invited to this event with Patty Jenkins that was early And it was funny because it was funny because Warner Brothers sent me all this wonder Woman stuff like posters, like gorgeous posters, a bunch of wonder Woman gear um. And I think it was just because I tweet about her so much. It would I mean people were like, yeah, it would. It would be weird if they didn't send it to you. I think you said that if he

But then Justice League, I didn't get anything. I didn't get invited. I didn't get anything. I got invited to like the premier of Wonder Woman and then I was like, oh cool, and then like they were like no that, I'm sure I'll be invited to eighty four. But you know this is good. We got her. Yeah, it's fine. You know, we just needed for the wonder Woman stuff. Um. If you what do you what was your takeaway from seeing her brought to life on in film? Oh? I loved it and it was you know, it was so

obvious what the solution was too. And I've talked about this many times. Anytime I talked about like what d C needs to do to blah blah blah, it's always this, which is simply like getting new voices in there, getting new directors in there. And like I think Patty just really just brought a whole new like perspective to the series. And what she did was she made it a war story. Like it wasn't a story about you know, is she going to like be like being a superhero or you know,

any other like superhero story. It was a story about like this person dealing with the war and how that how that treats them and then being an outsider. So yeah, she was a fish out of water. Um, that was very well done. One of the things there were a

couple of complaints that people had that I want to address. Uh. One was this idea that she's not a feminist because she fell in love with Steve Trevor, that it's literally not what feminism means, And that to me is it's it's such a It just shows how outdated and singular that those people's view. You know, that she can you can be a feminist, you can be a fully fledged you know. Another thing was that she wasn't a They were like, well, she's clearly not queer. Then I'm like,

but you know, queer, you can sleep with you. You can do both. There's there's a reason it's called by like, you can do both. And it just so happened that this particular one, you know, and she fell in love with Steve Trevor. But I I find it hard pressed to believe that someone that looks like that would not be exploring on an island where other women are also equally as hot. It just like, listen, I mean, that's

just a woman myself. Listen. And also again, like if we're talking about like I I very much want to loop a lot of what she does into actual Greek mythology, because I do think mostly the better or the more impactful writers tap into it in the right way. And if you think about ancient Greece, they didn't care. Yeah, they were tapping everything. Are you pretty? I've seen the I've seen the porcelain, I've seen the plates in the Girl, and then with the very detailed tapestry they are and

they there, it's it's part of their thing. That's what they did. So I just I don't I don't understand with the problems and I don't understand. So okay. So one of the things that I think they did really well in the movie because part of the reason why she falls in love with Steve is that he treats her like a human person. He treats her like she is above him. And that's what I love. I love that they picked Chris Pine. He was a perfect person. He like, he knows that he's not as strong as

Wonder Woman, he's not as good as Wonder Woman. She's the hero in the scenario. And so yeah, and he tries to be like, oh, this is what how this is done here? And and she just doesn't listen to him, and he's kind of frustrated about it. But then he kind of only tries because he kind of feels like he has to. It feels like, you know what I mean, like I have to tell you that this is the thing.

I'm She's gonna do it anyways, but you know, And then and then he stopped doing that half way through the movie, if you know, because she doesn't because she's not gonna well, she's never met a man before. She doesn't know to listen to them. Um, I mean that's the truth. And why would she listen to this person who's below her. She's a literally literally royalty. So yeah,

I love that. I love that she grew up in a in a in an island where she doesn't she wasn't raised the way, she didn't have to live in a society like the rest of us. And he could be like, well, you're not women are supposed to be there. She's like, that's dumb. And then she's like, I'm sorry, do you speak like derivations of the way, you know, like I can translate that, can't you know? Okay? Cool? Um?

So I think that's really great. I think that the And again going back, like my biggest thing about characters is sticking to what their pillars are and this is the things that make them who they are. And this is these are the things that no matter what kind of tony you want to put on it have to

be there. Like Bruce Wayne and Batman, you know, his his his big pillars at his parents got murdered in the alley and he wants to fight crime and he doesn't kill an argument that we cannot go down now, but that that's yes, So that is technically not a pillar, but I think it is. But that's a whole other thing altogether. But his pillars. Part of the reason why you're able to do so much stuff with him is because his is the straight most straightforward like he's got.

He pretends like he's a playboy during the day and then he goes and punches people in the face at night. That's it, Like, that's the thing. So you can make that campy, you can make that really dark, you can make him a vampire, or you can do all kinds of stuff with him, and it's still going to play because it's the basics are the same. He's the easiest

to write out of all of them. Um. So I think the thing that part of the reason why the One of Them movie worked is they stuck to her pillars, and and that is, you know, she wants to help people, She wants to save people, she wants people to be kind to each other. She but she also if someone needs to get punched, she will punch them. And that's that's what it is. You know, It's kind of like a soldier. Most you know, soldiers aren't out there because

they want to murder people. They're there trying to keep people safe. I do love the fact that her because you know she started around the same time as Captain America, that they both can't not do the right thing. Yes, she just cannot do that. It doesn't comprehend she doesn't comprehend it. That's why do you see that trench scene where she's like, I don't understand you're not helping these people. I don't get it. Well, I'm gonna like what I

do is not up to you. And like a fun fact, Patty Jenkins had to fight to keep the No man Land sequence in the movie. They didn't understand it. They were like, what is this here? You should take it out? Scene made me cry. Yeah, for me, it's the movie. To me, the movie ends after they slow dance and the thing that's the end of the movie. Like I you know, it's an enjoy it's a because the third act has flaws. For me, it is a A plus experience in a B plus film. But that No Man's

Land sequence you could put whatever you want. They could be sitting there eating ice cream for another half an hour and you know what I mean, Like um, and so so that's really kind of interesting and to me and I have no side her knowledge of this, but like as a writer, I feel like the concession got made of We're gonna keep your No Man's Land sequence in there, but then the end is just going to

be a straight up, you know, superhero brawl. Even though in the comics she doesn't win fighting Aries by straight fighting him. She wins with the truth and she wins with love most of the time. And that's part of the reason why there's a lot and this happens a lot in the pres run in various places. Aries, as much as he's her enemy, needs her to exist because if he wins, then there's no one left. Everybody dies and there's no one left to worship them, and so

they all die. So he needs her to exist. He needs her to be out there so that life can continue. Basically, So, um, more of that, please? Well. I love that she Yeah, I love that they kept all of They kept her her. Um, they kept her you know, like I said, her femininity womanly like she to me, she is the mother of Earth. She's like very much makes up for when I think of like Batman and even super like when I think of batmanbers and they're just like clunking around and like

punch at each other. And she represents like this you know, this queen that's kind of like to me, she reminds me of Beyonce raining over every sure, yeah, just the sprinkles of dust of beautifulness. And but I don't even mean it like like she's un like you know, because she does get her hands dirty, definitely. I mean she's just so she's brad. And that's why I mean, like I don't necessarily mean, oh, she's because she's gorgeous, but I mean, like everything that goes into her being who

she is is beautiful. It's beautiful for you to look at your fellow human and be like, you know, we're gonna take care of you. Let's be in this together.

That's gorgeous. Like to be able to be that open with people and being able to be like welcoming its Like again, like I said at the top of the hour, I would be a much different person, you know with some of the stuff, because like you know, as a kid, I went through some you know, stuff, not like to the degree any day else, but like kids were really awful to me for no reason. I just was sitting there existing and they were like being dicks to me,

and I didn't understand that at all. And through a lot of the superhero stuff I watched, it helped me process that empathy that other people are going through stuff and that just because they're mean to you doesn't mean you did anything wrong. And just like a lot of that kind of stuff and like a percent, Wonder Woman helped me through all that stuff. So um yeah, so I take it very personally when stuff happens that is gross to me about it. So um yeah, that's why

I talked very passionately about it. But yeah, the one of a movie. I'm really looking forward to. Four. We somehow have Steve Trevor back. Yeah, there's would you like to hear my theories? Um? Sure, I guess we're just saying that this is everybody listening. This is a theory. Obviously, turned isn't privy to the script, has not seen it. It isn't even finished yet. I have no insights. Just somebody that knows Wonder Woman that is thinking that this

might be how he's there. Yeah, so I have too. Well, three, there's three things. Two of them are kind of related. So number one, remember when he was bathing in that pool, that healing pool. Girl, I didn't even remember that. So what what was that water? What did it do? What's going on with that? He could have survived this whole time. You know, he blew up in an airplane. We don't

know what that water that was like to Smithery. Okay, so that would be like in Terminator with like the do like all of the little metal pieces coming back together. That leads to me my second theory, which is, uh, we were told all the gods are gone? Are they? Somebody could have plucked him out of that plane right before it it's floated, and that he's been off somewhere else in another dimension, in stasis something something for a

very long time. That could be a thing, right because he still kind of looks this and it's the eighties, so and it seems to me, I haven't read a lot of stuff or whatever. The I think the most the least likely of the three theories is that he is somehow Steve's like Great Ransom or whatever. But I think that's not That doesn't make sense to me because there's nothing that they set up that just looks exactly just look exactly like him, um, which they do in

movies all the time. So whatever. But like so so that third theory is like the least likely one where I'm like, you can kind of throw that out there and be fine. But it's that blue glowing water, what does it do? And um, we already know that Apocalypse has beef with the Amazons and the gods of old, so it's possible that I wasn't even a Greek god. It could be one of the other gods that did it.

So like that like that could have plucked him out, or that they're still hanging around because the dark sides still exist, then why doesn't the other ones have to be there somewhere? Um, And it could have been interesting if that was like a last pull of their power at that time, and then it takes sixty a hundred years or whatever that for them to like be able to pull him back into this dimension because nobody's worshiping them except for like Amazons, so they kind of have

to recharge. Maybe I don't know those We have to wrap up on our lady, but we didn't talk about all of the animated series she's in. She's in a Tonch's literally every like Warner Brothers, DC Girls, Superhero Girls, Justice leagued as People's like Superman's and yeah, she's she's been animated and she has her own movies. Yeah, like

you were saying, she had her own animated films. One of my favorite, like if I'm going to say for like my one of my favorite fight scenes and all of the nt DC animated movies is from Superman Batman Apocalypse and this is Barda and wonder Woman versus the Furies, and that's one of my favorite fight sequences and all of the things. Also honorable mention her first appearance in Batman for Superman with her shield. That was that was that was cute. They were like, oh I thought she

was with you. Yeah, it was adorable. Are parts of that movie where all the parts she was in it. I also liked the if you really also want to see like a nice golden age version of her. Batman The Brave in the Bold have a couple of episodes in there. Into them in particular are Triumphant of Terror and Scorn of the Star STI Fire. So those are two episodes and one of them is like her, like Batman and Steve Trevor are tied up two missiles and the Baroness von Gunther is going to kill them, and

so she shows up and saves everybody. So that's really cool. It's cute. Other quick fire recommendations especially watch the pilot of The Wonder Woman TV series because that's very good in age, but also I just like that whole series. It's like a really great capsule and also very interesting thing about seventies censorship and how they deal with violence, because that's part of the reason why she wasn't punching people more and she kind of judo throw them because

of the violence thing. But Leondard Carter looks phenomenal and her outfits are great, and I love everything about it. Where should people start, um, I think beyond you know, there's so many omnibuses. Yeah, I would. I would because of where we're at modern time. I would start with George perez is on the bus because that is like the basis of pretty much everything that's happened most everything that's happened modern UM. I also, you know Gail Simmons run,

Greg Ricca's run, Phil Himenez's run. Um. He has an omnibus as well that has Gods of Gotham, which is an art that he did where it was the Bat family and the Wonder Family getting together because some of the lesser Greek gods were possessing bat villains, so that

I thought that was a really fun. And it also has the issue where Lewis Lane interviews Wonder Woman and spends a day with her, which I think it was a really cool moment because I don't think they spend a lot of time together, just one on one um. And then also I really liked the Legend of Wonder Woman right by Renaedo liz Um. That was a really great run to me. It's a different take on her origin um and it's really beautiful. It's a really like

very the arts really great on it. And yeah, those are those are my quick fire recommendations besides all the other I mean, there's so much cool stuff that you really can't go wrong, honestly. I mean I haven't really read a lot of the fifties and sixties era stuff because it's so kind of sexist that it's hard to get through for me. But there is fun stuff in there. I just kind of have to divorce my feelings from

it a little bit. I think I've said my favorite quote on here from her comics, but it was the original Marston run in in the forties, and it's she's constantly throughout the entire series, she's constantly saving Steve Trevor's but which I love. There's that one iconic one we'll have to link it from Perez where she's holding him. She's cradling him like and just a goddess like floating, which happens a lot in the TV show, and that's

another reason why I want that show. Um. But my favorite quote from her from that forties run is he's waking up in bed that she rescued him and he's like, wonder woman, my angel, and she says, what's an angel? I think I'd rather be a woman. I'm like, that is just something that I need to tattoo on my body. Yeah, it's good stuff. So Tomart, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. Um. You will be at Comic Con. Will be at Comic Yes, I'm on a panel um with a lot of with Danny

and the you can also talk about this. We'll be talking about a lot of current days. Yeah, I think, uh yeah. So that's going to be on Thursday at two pm. It's the most Dangerous Women at Comic Con. You can find us on the schedule and we'll be both be tweeting about it. Um I. Also, I'm starting a new podcast is gonna watch after San Diego Comic Con.

It's called Tales from the Tapes and it's basically about all the stuff that you watched obsessively over and over again as a kid when the only option was VHS tapes. So that's gonna launch after that. You can follow me on Twitter at Misfits tomorrow and also Tales from the Tapes at Tales from Tapes. And I really appreciated you guys. How do you think? Thank you great? You know, as always, you can find me at if I F y n w A d I w E on Twitter and Instagram. If d's on Twitch, I f d e z uh.

You know, I'll gotta thank the nerd fam coming in with those Twitch Prime subs. You gotta come back every month. This is my reminder pull up. We're having a good time. We've been playing dope games. You'll see me playing Judgment and also the Discord is Discord Period g G Forward Slash Salt Squad. It's pinned on our Twitter, but folks still ask me. So just now once again it's Discord dot g g slash Salt Squad. We're in there talking the The discord has become quite a huge community, uh there.

It started off with a small dream where it was really I was like, I'm gonna just add a nerdificent room. And now, as as of today as I opened the Discord, there's this week's episode to Stay Nerdy where people just talking nerdy memes stuff we mentioned where all our footnotes are dropped by Flickery thanks for that boiler chat for

when it's a spoiler stuff. And then even outside of that, we have a gaming channel stream highlights, tech talk on art gallery, self promo, and a whole bunch of lifestyle channels like real Stuff, fitness, music, drip Zone where you know you can post your fits or if your geet, create your nails. Uh fluf Zone where you post your pets. That's fairly new. You know they're posting cats, Danny dropped in dropped Molly, Yes, everyone's posting their cats, and I

broke the chain. She was too beautiful not to. And then there's memes in uh NSFW memes, which is exactly what it sounds like it gets spicy in there. But yeah, that's it for me. I've really plugged everything I am at Miss Danny Fernandez. Send me your Wonder Woman stuff. She is my favorite character of She's the goat. I have a at at New York Comic Con. When I was hosting there, they gave me Funco gave me her collectible, her NYCC. That's a good pop so it's perfectly place.

But yeah, send me your Wonder Woman stuff. I love her. Also, send me w yeah, of course, yeahs in it. We want to see it. We want to see the art, all the good arts, all the all the coca arts. Yeah, great stuff. And like we always say, stay Narnie's Stay Narnie