Episode 56: Intro to WWE

involved in that world. So I knew. I was like, if I'm going to pull her on, it's got to be for this one. Honestly. That's the only thing that I think I have expert knowledge, and and that's saying a lot. Expert is a lot. But I've put in my ten thousand hours I've been watching, Like I feel confident good. Yeah, And I mean I think the other thing I would say, I feel like you're an expert in horror, like you actively have horror shows. Yeah, that's true,

my whole show at Yeah. Well, I mean even material killers and stuff like that. If we want to talk about serial killers, I could do that too, okay, or chaos Magic perfect. We'll bring you on for one of those. That's really cool. Another voice that you are hearing, um that you have heard before on our Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode. She is the host of Tights and Fights. It's Daniale Radford. Hello, thank you for joining us, Thank you for having How long have you had your Tights

and Fights podcast for a while now? Jeez, yeah, I believe we started doing that gosh in the summer of that's right, it's been yeah, it really has been that long. That's crazy. It's crazy. And that other voice you will recognize from our Women in Gaming episode. She is a gamer RPG player herself and a gaming coach nel Santa Cruz. Thanks for having me, especially with this like awesome group

of women. This is fantastic. Well, you all have had wrestling podcasts and like been so heavily involved in the wrestling world. I just knew the three of you like popped into my head as people that I wanted to have on if I was going to have the compliment anyone man explained to me, I wanted it to be. I wanted it to be from y'all. So I just I wanted to start out because Rachel, you said that you were introduced to wrestling at a young age, Like,

what is your first memory? Who were some of the first wrestlers that you remember before we totally dive into the history of it. Just what is your first memory? My very very first memory of wrestling is uh my, I think I was probably around like three or something because I've watched it with my dad since I was born. He just like sit on his lap was a Bruno sam Martino, which is a deep deep cut um but my dad's favorite wrestler. But my personal first memory of

wrestling is really tragic. Actually it's own hearts that will we will get into that because that was my first pay per view. That was that was my That was my first memory that I can see it still. It's horrific and we'll talk about it. Okay, So what was your first memory of of wrestling? So it was you know, wrestling was kind of always in the background when I was a kid because this is when Um Trash he Pull Hogan was huge UM and wrestling was just kind

of in the zeitgeist. I did not start watching it until the Attitude era and the Monday Night War Wars were well underway. UM with a bunch of friends of mine because I started watching and I was like, what is this thing? And then it was the episode UM where an undead zombie monster UH takes the owner of the company's daughter and puts her up on a fake crucifix. And I was watching it and I said, oh, this

is comic books. Oh, I'm super into this, And that's when I started watching and again, Yeah, my first pay per view experience was Over the Edge. You know, it's a horrible name. It is right because I feel I think I've made this point before, but I feel like anime and wrestle in it has like a ven diagram, so watch of the moves come from anime as well. Like you'll see more than a few people in the w W LIKEDUK Oh totally. I see them doing the Guinea Force dance. Ill build up, build up, build up

until yeah, the actual fight. It's totally dragon balls people in spandex um. Janelle, what is your first memory of wrestling? Well, it's funny because my first memory is Danielle's also, but um my interpretation of that that same incident was very soap opera esque. UM. So I grew up with with UH. My mom is one of ten kids, so I have like thirty plus cousins, and so we grew up just

watching and wrestling each other all the time. But that moment where um, where the Undertaker kidnapped vincic Man's daughter, Um, somebody named Stone Colt Boston came in to save the day I died, I was like I was. I was probably like six seven years old at the time, and I just, um, I just remember seeing that and it was just so like the hero, like he came in even though he hated and picked, and he was going to save his daughter because it was the right thing

to do. And so that was It's really funny that that we have like the same moment as our first spit beer on me when I was nine. Oh my god, what an honor my first um, even though I what never got into it as much as y'all have. My first memory, I think would honestly be middle school. My little brother was obsessed with wrestling. He would pile drive into my pillows. Yeah, he just he was obsessed with the rock. So I feel like that was my introduction.

But I was also aware of Stone called Steve Austin Um, John Cena Um. But yeah, my little brother just gravitated to the rocks so much he would do the eyebrow, the people's eyebrow. Um so that was like always on our television. Um yeah, so I guess that was my first memory before we hop in just talking about how it got started. So the w W E n Aime also refers to the professional and of course that changed. Um, but it refers to the professional wrestling promotion that was

founded by Jess McMahon and a guy named Toots. Love that that used to be a name. Toots mom old carne stuff. I know, love it, bring back Toots. Where's that name? I'm sure there's a Toots out there that's a great wrestler name. No wonder he went into it. Um so too. I mean we haven't had a Toots gimmick before. I mean assigned to a to a poor poor woman that we love very much, Nattie Harthetchimick. She farted,

that was her thing. I thought you were talking about Sarah Logan in the in the What's the Driving Show? Right with right along? Yeah, she farted in the car and then like hot boxed it. Anyways, probably why they don't pick the name Tuotes anymore. Yeah, that's probably why. So that was in nineteen fifty two as the Capital

Wrestling Corporate Ation. So McMahon, who was a successful boxing promoter, began working with text Ricord in nineteen six and with the help of Ricord, he began promoting boxing and wrestling at Madison Square Garden. So this ended up becoming UM once they formed this wrestling corporation. Essentially, that's eventually what we came to know as a WWF and then eventually the w w E. Does anyone want to just explain

what happened there with a WWF? UM? So well, and it was for a while it was the WWWF and then UM. When Vince McMahon took over from his dad, who was also Vince McMahon UM, he began buying up all of these little territories and companies. So what basically what he did about that? Because this is really interesting, Like this point of it I think is super interesting because it's will never be the same again because of

what they did they went. So basically what happened is that there was a top guy in each region, and that top guy would travel around each region and there would be jobbers or they be mid carters that would just kind of stay in their regions, but these top guys it would all travel around. What the McMahon's did. Let's go to each region and say, hey, you could have you could be in one place, you could be

in one company, and we'll take care of you. And so he took all the top guys put him in one organization, and then all everything else failed because there was all jobbers. And then the jobbers went to the WWW. Yeah, and so then that's when it became WWB and the reason had to become the w w E was an early two thousands. The WWS is the Worldwide Life World

Wildlife Federation UM. And so they successfully sued in England saying we're tired of people confusing our sweet sweet pandas with this and this was during a particularly raunchy point in w w E S. So do you think that's

why they won? Yeah, yeah, because they I mean, I think the the idea was like their brand was being sullied and it was some pretty was during the time the Aptitude era, which is UM, when they were doing like you know, brom panties matches where women were just snatching you know that in order to win, you had to declothe the other woman like that was it was was what was happening back then, um, and it was just a lot of cursing, a lot of you know,

just um even just racial storylines. It's just very very Uh. If I were, you know, running a panda organization, I wouldn't want my name to be still by that either. And so that's when it went from w w E, which is World Wrestling Entertainment, which, let's be real, is a better I think I agree, because it did. It really encompasses there sort of this um the way that they kind of went around and absorbed all of these

other territories and and uh and you know, promotions. It also solidifies the idea that it's sports entertainment to get them out of the legality of being an actual sports organization sports entertainment. So can you talk to me kind of about the legacy of the McMahon's because they've been involved for so long. Are they kind of seen as um villains sometimes or what I mean that's just from

an outside point of Yeah, they're the mafia. They they are the Donald Trump's of like their friends, their friends, they're good friends, and to think of them that way is like they're the modern day monarchy. I know that there's monarchies not in America, in America, but yeah, no, like they they're definitely a nefarious organization. Um. But that being said, I look at me, I'm an apologist. I was about to be like, they're not. They're just carnis.

They're just old school carnies. But at this point, like the actual McMahon's of it all or have transcended that. And I do think that's an important point to make about wrestling is that it did start. You know, there's so much terminology. Um, it's all carnie talk because wrestling really began to get big at carnivals. And that's why when you know, that's why you can have someone named Toots, Yeah who helps um, who helps get things off the ground.

And so that's why when we do so much of this weird wrestling terminology, because it really is its own language. And we talked about you know, marks and smarts and jobbers and all these little yeah, these weird phrases or terminology. Yeah, it all comes from when it was carney stuff. Okay, So the Golden Age, which is the eighties where y'all still I mean, that was before we were born. But do you go back and watch, Like, did you go

back and watch those? Like, what are some moments that people who are some like famous or groundbreaking wrestlers during that time. It was a lot of just big powerhouse type men. Back then. It was very slow. The wrestling was very very slow. Um. You know, it was the

time when when Rick Flair was on top. Um. Rick Flair was kind of the um so he's called the nature boy because he this whole thing was like the guy who's got the bleached blonde hair and that there was lots of nature boys, but he was the nature boy. And so again like you had all your whole Cogan's and your UM Warrior Ultimate Warrior, and so it was very slow wrestling. UM. So it is kind of funny to go back because you can kind of appreciate the storylines,

but also you're like, oh, not a good wrestler. Yeah. A lot of Yeah, there's a Randy Savage was during that point. Um. A lot of what most people think iconically of wrestling, UM comes from that early eighties. It was the golden age of blading, which is when you, um,

you cut yourself open with a small razor blade too. Yeah, for the dramatic effect of the matches, like, oh, herested me, and you do it on the forehead because that's where it bleeds the best, tiny tiny, tiny cuts, so that when you get hit in the head, they bleed out. And Abdullah the Butcher actually has a slot in the middle of his forehead where he's bladed so many times he can stick a quarter in there. Yeah, Dudley Devon Dudley's faces. I mean, he's wonderful and I love him

at yeah. Great. Their fourheads are just it's just very very deep, particularly kind of and now that we have HD, we can really see death by a thousand cats literally, to be honest, Like, you know, I prefer wrestling now. I think you'll, Yeah, I think you'll see a lot of people, especially people who used to watch but don't watch anymore, refer to that as the Golden Age. And then the added what you hear mostly though, is the attitude air is the best air in wrestling. That's kind

of where we grew up. That's why. So we do you think because on here just says this is the Golden Age, But is that just something people have equated like, because when I think of Golden Age, thinks like, oh, the Golden Age of comics, Like that's just an accepted term. Are you saying people are just like nostalgically adding like, oh, that was the golden days? Yeah, this isn't like how you know in comics they do there is they're broken up by decades. So there is like you know, the

Golden Age, the Bronze Age, the Silver Age. Um, it's not I would say with wrestling, it's not really like that. That's just something that someone Yeah, it's a nostalgia trip for sure. So would you say that some of the wrestlers from the eighties old like influence like can you see how they influenced the next generation? And like who would you equate that to? Like who? Can you is there someone that you can point out that like, oh he clearly influenced this wrestler. Well, a huge one right

now is um Piper? Why why you Piper? Um? He was huge. If you ever saw They Live, he was in that. He did a few movies. Um, he always his big thing was Piper's Pit, which was a conversational um talk show styled way to further along storylines. There are so many can you give me an example, like he would like sit there and he would do a

segment like a sketch. He would do a sketch essentially in front of like they would have a set and he would um, you know and talk to you know, bring on a wrestler and just they would just end up like yelling at each other because you know they're going to fight. Um. Yeah, just a way to further storylines. And now so he had like a Mari situation. They had like Jerry Springer and they have a they had

a barber shop also, which was really funny. Um. I just thought about Shawn Michael's because sorry, going back to um, Roddy Um. Rhonda Rousy um actually super influenced by Roddy Piper and so she actually was going by Rowdy Rhonda m Rousy and she would come out. She the first time she showed up on a WDB, she was wearing his leather jacket and UM, so that's definitely someone who

was influenced heavily by somebody from the eighties. UM. Trying to think of I think like Andre the Giant is an easy one because any big man, like they literally have an Andre the Giant like Memorium match. Um. But yeah, I know any any big guy that choke slams. It's in Andre the Giant move. Yeah. Can you talk about some of the move before we move on to the next air. Can you talk about some of the popular

moves that were in the eighties. I would say choke slams were super popular just because it was the rise of the big Man, and then you had Hogan's crappy leg drop. Yeah, yeah, yea yeah. A lot of it was a lot of Russ holds, a lot of just you know, interlocking and then you know, just strength checks and where you just can't grab each other's arms and try to stronger, you know, and um some power power bombs, which is where you pick them up and just kind

of lay them flat on their back. I feel like d d T s were kind of which is where you just kind of, yeah, you grab their head underneath your arm, put and just kind of like picture one chop and I can't I can't think of any chops. But so something important that is a wrestling move that's out through all wrestling is when we refer to as a bump, and that is literally when someone has to um, you know, when you get hit and you have to

fall and you land on your back, flat back. There is a way that you have to do that so that everything takes the brunt of it all at the same time. Um, so you have to like you fall back, you have the slam throughout, and there's a way to bump. There's a way to bump that when you can jump off of age and you can bump and you're not

gonna be great, but you won't be dead. Yeah. Yeah, So, um, let's talk about some of the training that goes on behind this, because that ended up being I do remember, I don't know when the first one off to look it up, but they ended up televising that, Like that became a whole thing to like be in a house and be being trained and like to be And then there was also that show on MTV that like on like X somethings make their make their living post a

career as they trained you know, other people. And that's because WW historically doesn't take care of the wrestlers after after they've retired. Um, there's no because their independent contractors there, like the NFL, it totally almost worse, honestly, Well there's no federal regulation, so it's much worse. Yeah, there's no union. There's no there's no union. But they we talked about Rotti and he was like he was on the outside

when he was like forty five. He had to go back and go wrestle because he couldn't afford to live. I feel like, I feel like as entertainers, they should be allowed to be in an entertainment union. I agree they should be. They should be part of SAG. It should be said they're on TV. Doesn't make something would make sense. But you know you're not dealing with You're dealing with the mafia, like they don't care. Yeah, they did.

In the eighties there was a big movement UM to unionize and once again proving what a trash HEP is. Whole Coken helped us that open the guy UM. I do think I have to I have to think that a W it's a new promotion that is the pretty much the only Yeah, it is pretty much the only promotion to directly like say, w W, we can take you. They're offering healthcare. And I have to think with this new wave of people dropping like flies from the w W, E like, is that Sasha thing real? You know? Who knows?

But I at the same time, you know, so there are right now. It's it reminds me a lot of the Monday Night Wars, which is a huge part of the Attitude era where um as they called him Billionaire Ted um As Ted Turner decided that he wanted to really put his money behind the wrestling programs that they had already had um and he was Ted Turner. Uh, Ted Turner is in the millionaire he owns all the superstations,

cable cable guy. Yeah, So he decided he'd already had some wrestling, so he decided he was going to rebrand it and make it edgy. And that was a period where you would see people kind of because that was one of the first real big um challenges to w w e's um kind of monopoly, and so you would

see people go back and forth from those companies. And we're starting to see some of that now with New Japan and a w is another contender where if you're unhappy at w w E, there's a chance that you could go and leave and really make your mark somewhere else and then of course inevitably come back when you're

tired of doing that. And we've already seen it like it's proven like WWW's veteran star Jericho, he's been around for twenty plus years, is now one of the main faces of a W and he's champion like Jim Ross, who's a legend on the mike, gonna be momentary ever heard by God by God, he's broken in half. Who was the voice of the of the Attitude era. It's

him and Jerry the King lawler Um. But going back to all elite and this company isn't started by by stars who UM never went to WDB sto strong in the face of money being thrown in their face and they were just like Cody, Cody, Cody, Yeah, Cody left UM. But this is the Young Bucks, then Kenny Omega, who are stars of UM New Japan and Ring of Honor and New Japan and Ring of Honor are these independent

quote companies. But they worked together because they and they built this machine very very strong against to hold up against. And so now you have people that are yeah, they're just totally you know, they have a chance to make make a living outside of w B now because of this place and WW is col waking feel it for the first time ever. They're kicking people out of w W shows that are wearing a w march um. So just wrapping up a little bit more on this era.

The There was an introduction of Saturday Night Main Event on NBC in nine five, and that mark the first time that professional wrestling have been broadcast on network television since in nineteen fifties. I don't know what is going on with y'all schedule. I feel like it's always wrestling all the time. But sometimes it's really important wrestling, and then other times it's so I guess we'll get into that.

We have a Big four. It's like, okay, every every three months there's one big one that we got all kind of and then once a year in April, we have the big one, which is the super Bowl, which is wrestling, and there are at least five, don't We don't make ourselves watch all those because a lot of it is just fill their content and it's just, you know, it's just time for them to make money with advertisers, because they're just trying to fill as much TV time

as possible to get the advertisement money. I don't know it watched I Hate myself, you know, you know, I watched it on I watched it on Hulu. But a thing I don't like that they take the beats out of important matches, and I'm like, I can't. Yeah, I'll just keep it on while I'm working. I was going to say the first WrestleMania was in nineteen five and has since produced thirty five editions. Really thought it would honestly be more than that. But that's what that's the

what we're at right now. So the next one will be WrestleMania thirty six. Yeah, where's that Florida? They're going to Florida. Okay, we're never getting one. We're never going to get one. I'm so mad. I barely got a rumble. We have to take a quick break. But then we're going to hop into the history of WrestleMania, and then we're going to hop into the Attitude era right after

this and we're back. So if you had to explain WrestleMania to someone that has never watched wrestling, which might be people listening, how would you describe WrestleMania Roman, Colosseum, Gladigator matches. It's like the Super Bowl meets exactly what Daniel once Yeah, once a year event, so this is yeah, that's why it's everybody goes crazy for this it this year. How long was it? We had like eight seven show? Yeah, it went seven hours. It's like, yeah, it's the Oscars

and super Bowl. It's this this total um crazy event. It's basically the culmination of everything that they've been working up to and the and that takes place on a Sunday and then the Monday after is um the first TV episode of the new wrestling year. So the new resting year starts after WrestleMania and that's when new storylines are introduced and UM new people are are are brought

up into the company. Super Yeah. So one thing about wrestling, unlike UM sports or television or most things, particularly with w w E, there there are no seasons. So people work and work and work until they have time off for until they get injured. And so the closest you could come to saying that's when a new season would start would be the Monday after after WrestleMania. But yeah, there's no seasons, there's no days. And this is a problem with the then not having a union because these

people had to work on Christmas. They didn't get to be with their families this past year because Vincent Man decided he wanted to have a Christmas episode, and um, that's not okay because these people they hide the fact that they're injured because they don't want to be off TV. They don't want to disappoint the boss. Oh, if you talk to wrestlers, I mean, it's incredibly sad. It's like I've never spent a Halloween with my son, you know, I've never I've never been there for my wife's birthday.

It's oh, her birthday is on to Tuesday this year. I guess it's they get to go home for two days a week. Maybe yeah, two days a week and if they're overseas and not that because they basically just circle the globe. I want to say something for everyone listening. We all know all of us are friends with professional slers, like all of even me, who am not in this world.

I did a show at Geek and Sundury with Xavier Woods, who's from New Day Comedy and Wrestling, Comedy and Wrestling, and then I've done I've done a bunch of shows with Dolph Ziggler, who I know as well and I know his brother. So like, yeah, so when you hear people saying, um, you know and and these women know even more wrestlers than I do. So so it's not they're just not making this up. They know a lot of them intimately have worked with them um and and

worked on projects with them as well. So I just wanted to say that as opposed to like when you're like, no they're sad, it's like, oh no, we know. You gives me and read it. I read this one thing. Yeah, it's you know, and it doesn't. That doesn't. We don't want to make it sound like we'd super it's l a. We everyone knows everyone but most jo I was on that Wait we were, Yeah, we were both on a thing with m Jericho, remember are Yeah, so we've worked with and so that's I didn't mean that. I just

want you know because somebody, how do you know? And it's like, oh no, we've We've worked with so many friends and not a secret that you know we're friends with. All you have to do is go to your Instagram. Yeah we know. We tell everybody but Jericho. So that was somebody who was a very very prominent player during the Attitude error, which is the next one that you

wanted to talk about. Yes, yeah, So in between that kind of ho Hogan Big heyday of the eighties, there was this weird moment where suddenly all wrestlers had a different, a separate occupation to be like, I'm a wrestler, but I'm also a dentist. Yeah, like that would be their gimmick, you know, I'm a wrestler, but I'm also uh an accountant, think exactly. Yeah, that was very white. Yeah, and so I was a wrestler but I'm also an X man. Yeah. That one that was well, the weirdest one was Velvinus,

who I'm a wrestler, but I'm also a point star. Yeah, and so during that I'm seven by the way. Yeah. That air um was kind of when wrestling was considered to be kind of name And then that is when um, you know, and a lot of the wrestlers in WW, we're starting to get um a little bit. Older people were getting bored, and that is when um billionaire Ted came in and decided to inject some new life into

this is when Valvinus came up with this porn start. Yeah, and so um he started taking a lot of ww's bigger older talents, um like col Hogan and all these other guys and bringing them over to him. But that also meant that younger dudes got a chance to rise now that um, these older talents weren't kind of keeping up down. I mean people that could move like um, the Heartbard kid, Shawn Michaels, who is my favorite wrestler really, I love sewn Uh. He's evil by the way he's

he's considered he's very evil. He did a lot of drugs back then, made a lot of poor choices. Jesus, Jesus, he found Jesus. Um. But now this was the time where people who were not seven ft tall could actually you know, and Sean Michael is considered a small guy, and he's like he's six too. He's he used to play football, but he was somebody who by stature like you know, you put him next to a whole Colgan

like he looks you know small quote quote um. And so this was the time when a lot of people they took they seize this opportunity to to um show that they couldn't They weren't just going to be you know, locking locking up, and the storylines got a little raunchy, and um, it was pretty wild back then. Yeah, Yeah,

the flippy dips started coming out. Gros that like the people who exactly people who started to introduce So there's a very particular WWE style and it's actually something that you learn, like when you go to the w W now in the performance center, they teach you WWW style, which is very different from the rest camera wrestling instead of the three sixty. It's like porn versus sex. It's like porn is like, here's my vagina, and this is the angle that I'm not. And it's also sometimes the

pacing as much slower. And then they started to introduce different wrestling styles when they when they brought people over from Japan in Mexico, like they started to introduce more dynamic styles of wrestling, and that also meant character wise, people got to spice U. We've got a lot of middle fingers from Mr stone Cold Steve Boston, which I was like seven, this is exciting. I love him so much. He's I can never figure out if he's my favorite.

You know, it runs very very close for me and Sean Me Sean and uh and and Yah and stone Cold. I love that. I'm I'm mankind stone Mankind is by the way, Yeah, you know what mankind favorite. It's because mankind is a man in a mask who lives in a basement and has a bunch of different personality hits himself in the face. But the cool thing about him is that he's actually this wrestler mc foley who has

all these multifaceted characters. He has do love, he is mankind, he has this jack and then he's mcfoley, and many was my favorite. When I was growing up, I had like a four pronged um picture frame that had all of his personalities next to my bed and sag I mean, look at look at the talent of somebody, Like for sure, it was like pulling out these different characters and you

were like, no, that's not that's not mankind. That he Mick Foley, I think is actually a really good example of what we're talking about because he trained in Japan when he was younger. He always wanted to be a wrestler, but he wanted to be in death matches, and death hatches are hardcore matches, and so that's very at the time, was very specific to Japan, which they would have ladder matches.

People would fall into piranha pits and literally get torn apart by piranhas and they pulled them out like four seconds later, they're bleeding all over the place, lost an ear in the ring. Sure did so, Like he was like, I'm gonna go to Japan. I'm gonna learn death matches. I'm gonna be as tough as I can because I'm not a body guy. And like that's a thing like your big guy, your small guy, your body guy. He was none of those things. He was a normy dude.

And so he did this and then he comes to the w W E w W at the time and uh was completely annihilated. He was the one who always jumped off the cages before Shane. And I think another important thing which happened, um, which is also part of the reason why some of these smaller dudes were getting a shot. Um, there was very famously case where um, they had to go in front of was it Congress? What did they but they had to because of all

the steroids stuff, right, Um? And so that is when all right, So we're gonna take it to a concept called k pabe. Now this is what we talk about, what we talk about Carney talk. So kabe again when we talk about these Carney concepts, when people used to say, you know, there was that whole thing of well, you know wrestling is fake, right. You know wrestling is fake right. It sounds weird to say, but wrestling sold itself as

being real. Um. And and the reason why that you know, when you hear words like mark that is very much a con artist's term because back in the Carney days, people would bets and whatever and they didn't realize that it was a show and all these dudes are friends. And so in the eighties, Cafebe was very huge. Um. If you if your best friend was a heal a k a. The bad guy, and if you were a Face or baby Face a k a. The good guy, you couldn't travel together, you couldn't be seen together because

they protected Kfbe so heavily. Um. And they still did this for traveling too. And it wasn't it wasn't it the Montreal screw job that kind of like brought Cafebe. That was part of it. But before then it was the steroid scandal where Vince McMahon had to go in

front of it. Again I'm blanking on. I know it was a governmental entity, um, and that it wasn't, but so he wound up having to go in front of them because they were all of these steroid whatevers and people still being treated like a for real, for real sport.

And that's kind of when the mask began to drop on cafebe because you can't say, well, I'm not in charge of what these wrestlers do when all so, this isn't really a sport unless you admit that it's not really a sport if you're going up in front of you know, whatever game, you know, Sports and Gaming Commission. He had to go in front, And that's why they're so adamant about calling it sports entertainment and calling them

exactly and calling them sports entertainers. So if you ever hear like, there's I think there's compilations on YouTube of people accidentally saying wrestler and then you can hear like Vent screaming in their ear, like somebody on the mic accidentally saying wrestler, and then you can hear Vince screaming in their ear, and they're like, it's a sports sports entertainer. Yeah, by Vince's terminology. Um. Yeah, So so we mentioned the Montreal screw job and I'm kind of blushing over her

because I was like, Sean Michael's is my favorite. Oh so the Montreal screw job was an instant that happened obviously Montreal. What year was it, Dann do you happen to know the exactly? I want to say? So, there was a buildup between a match between Brett Hart of the Heart Foundation and UM Shawn Michaels. It was like what you said, yeah so they yeah, so there was this big culmination that they're supposed to fight and then

uh the title. Uh So Brett Hart was a champion during the time and he did not want to drop the title to Shawn Michaels. But Shawn Michaels was really good friends with Vince McMahon UM possibly a lover back then. And an important and important note to make on this was that UM Brett was getting ready to leave for their rival w c W and Vince, and Vince wanted him a classic way that you leave, you always go

out on your back, you always go out losing. And so what Brett was prepared to do was lose, but he didn't want to lose in his hometown at WrestleMania. He was going to lose the day after, but because there was such a rivalry between them and w CW, recently they're champions were doing something where because you know, uh w W E stuff was pretaped so someone you would see who would take something two weeks ago would suddenly be on the rival channel at the same time.

Um and then very famously, a Lundra Blaze um ak a Medusa left w W with her women's championship and she threw in the trash on the enemy program, you know, on this rival program on WCW. Um So, this was the fear of Bret Hart leaving with the title. They didn't want him to take the title to w c W. They couldn't have that. So there was a deal made backstage unbeknownst to Brett Hart. Um So, Seawn Michaels goes in for the pin and the referee counted very quickly.

So he so he didn't he put him in a submission. I put him in a submission. That's right. Yeah, he tapped, he tapped, thank you, yeah, thanks, you know, they put it. He put him in a submission and he didn't tap. He didn't tapp, and he said he didn't. He didn't happen. Then they were like he was like he's out, and you can see Brett Hart stand up and be like confused, No,

I didn't, I did not tap I did happened? And while that's happening, Sean Michael's is hauling ass out of the race, throwing like he has no idea what's going on, and they're throwing things at him like on the way out, like they're just people are living because this is Brett Hart's hometown and Red Heart is spit on directly onto Vinca Ban's face like it was a lugie. And then um, and then Bret Hart. You can go back and look at the footage. He spells out w c W. Wasn't

a sharpshooter that he did. He did on him, which is Brett Hart's finisher. Yea, So he used his own finisher on bred Heart to make him tap out into yeah, and the most disrespectful thing he could have done. And then so Bret Hart went in the back, punched Vince McMahon right in the face, punched him in the face too, and he finally, like after many many many years, finally was inducted into the Hall of Fame this year. Yeah,

So like, thank God for that. There's been a lot of a lot of animosity between the Heart family, and uh yes, and so Sean Michael's is a is a reformed man now but back way, just so you know, like Brett Hart is the brother of the guy who we were talking about who died in the ring. Yeah,

so there's the Heart family has not had it easy. No, Um that that pay per view over the Edge, by the way, was the first pay per view that I would beg and beg my parents to buy me paper like you know, plase for thirty night night and I place, you know, the very first one that they bought for me, my brother. And uh it was a long time after that about another view. I was so young that my dad I can literally remember and I talked to him about this like two years ago and he was like,

that's crazy that you remember that. But I can literally remember him saying, she'll never remember this. It's okay. So to get into this heartbreaking, super sad incident. Um at the time, Owen Heart, who again all of the Heart family. They are a family of wrestlers. Um Stu Heart runs what they call the Dungeon where they train wrestlers. Wrestling is their family business. And so Brett at this point

was gone. Owen was doing this weird gimmick called the Blue Blazer where he pretended he was a super hero but everyone knew he wasn't. So going into over the edge, they were going to have him come down on not like a zip line, but on a like like a platform, not a plat, not a platform. It's what's the name of it when they hook you in, Either the name when they hook you in to make you look like you're flying and like a show or something like harness. Yeah,

like a zip line harness thing. Um. Sean Michaels used to use them all the time as part of his big entrances, and so the idea was he was going to come in, get on clipped and do his match at the last minute. And there are lots of different reasons why people have said, but my understanding is that the last minute, because he was having problems getting unclipped out of the UM out of the system, they switched it to a different kind of system and they did not test it. So while he is coming down into

the ring, UM he the harness or whatever releases. He hits one of the ring posts and then falls into the ring and UM passes a way. UM they take him out of the ring. Um, they continue the pay per view. What he is loved by everyone. No one has a bad thing to say about this man. All the boys in the back love him. He was known for being an incredible wrestler. He was known for being incredibly great at training and doing well by the new guys. He was known for his huge sense of humor and

his ability to pull pranks, which is what they call ribs. Um. The guys always rip each other in the back or whatever, because what are you gonna do. You've got all that travel time. Um be universally beloved figure. And the show goes on. Um. At a certain point, Um, Jim Ross has to announce that Owen has passed away and everyone else is just doing their best to continue this thing.

And the decision to continue the pay per view after that is one of out of all of the things that make Man's have done, one of the most controversial. And if that can tell you, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah that was so that was all of our first pay per view. Yeah, and we still watch and I thought it was you know, I thought it was part of it, and we thought I thought it was part of the show. I thought it was a part of I was confused because when he felt I was like, well,

why isn't he coming back? Like he's just not going to do They quit very quickly because they've got that five you know, they've got that delay. They're used to having to cut away from injuries and things. And so you don't see him, thankfully you don't. You didn't. You didn't see him actually hit anything. You saw it, you saw like a split second and then that was that was it. And they didn't show any shots of him in the ring, thank god. That would have been yeah,

burned in our memories forever. Um. The people there and it was just silent. It was like that pay per view, just silent. You know, they were all they want well and they also weren't telling anyone who was there watching. They were not giving them updates. They were giving the people watching at home this week because they think the certain places um networks or whatever networks, but cable providers I think, decided to just not show it anymore. Well

that's that's good, that's good. But yeah, they didn't tell anyone in the arena because there showing on. So this that was still a part of the attitude era. This is so um I guess just wrapping up this. That's very morbid part of the era. Um, is there anything else before we move on to the next one. Oh so yeah, the attitude aras where you get your stone called Steve Austin's. It's where man started the rocket sos Man amongst you know, his his behind the scenes role.

He really became an evil character because of that, because so he stepped into the line after that, and you know, this is when they really started to take stories that were leaking to the public like this montre Else screw job and writing it into the show. Yeah. Yeah. And before that, Vince had been um an announcer. He was like the announcer there and they never talked about how he was the owner of the company and riding everything, um because that was a way to be able to

control the story. And then after that he became the boss and not only him but his um but yeah, his his children, Shane, well his older child, like she didn't she didn't want any part of it. She wasn't right. She never showed on camera. She's like that one Osborne. Yeah, there's yeah, there's smart. I was about to say there's Kelly, and then um, there's a Stephanie and and she McMahon

who also became prominent characters. Um, she McMann embraced the Weasley you know, son of the Owner character, and um, that's why you know Stephanie McMahon was kidnapped quote unquote by the by the Undertaker. Um, this was a very

insane storyline time. Yeah, and this well exactly so like this was this was the time when the shift started to happen from muscle from braun to more personality driven gimmicks and so like you moved away from like the very classic wrestling of like Bruno San Martino, like I said, and then you get to like the Ultimate Warrior and holg In and like people who have strong characters, but their characters are just I am strong, and then their

work rates are terrible, very bad. Um or great is what means, like have much stuff you can actually do in the ring, like two moves. Um. And then now what we see with the attitude there is still like an emphasis on the bronze, emphasis on the strong, but now we're getting these characters they are seen as more like comedic more it was more I think it is weird. It was it was was more marketed for kids, and we had UM Degeneration next, and you remember suck it.

You remember, you know, being told to suck it. You know, the cross shop and everything that was during that same time. My mom hated that. My mom hated that, hated that we were not allowed to do that in our house. And the leader, one of the leaders of Degeneration next with Triple h who ended up marrying UM, Stephan McMahon

both on camera. You know, supposed he kidnaps her, kidnaps her and married her in a drive through Las Vegas chappell um while she was passed out, so that happened, but they are actually married in real life and are uh yeah, a big duo in the company that we kind of we kind of champions Triple Lates because he is he's you know, the son, the son in law of Inspect band, but has his own ideas and brings in a lot of the people that we love UM into the company. We have to take a really quick break.

We're gonna come back jump into more of wrestling and also kind of just get into how they get how now wrestlers are even able to join the WWT, like what that process is. Right after this and we're back. I'm still joined by Rachel, Danielle and Janelle and um one. I just love watching how excited you'll get when you talk about it. It's it's those are my favorite guests to have our people that are so passionate about it.

It's like, oh no, I just got to tell you the t about this, Like I have so much tea on this. I just I can see your eyes light up when you talk about it. There's all types of fights kind of came about it that, you know. Daniel started a Facebook group and then we all we were all just so excited to be there and talk to each other and we would have meet ups and stuff. And then that was before I haven't been I haven't

been a good mommy on that. I missed that Facebook group when it was like ten people exactly when we were cool. That then, right, and so we did yeah, and so I wind up getting the podcast and so now we have a different Facebook group that is not because mine was very specifically like I want my industry buds and me to have a safe place where we can talk about rest. So we're moving into the pg UM era. So what exactly I mean was this to

market more to be more more in reality. Like, so I imagine they're trying to pull non traditional wrestlings for advertisers to be okay with your product. Okay that bad people were people were they were boycotts um. I think Coke for a while it was either Coke, Pepsie, one of the big ones. They took their support off. They were having a really hard time getting people to actually

like getting advertisers on the show. And this was around the time too that they started to have a new emphasis on merchandising and so like they knew that kids were buying merchandizing and so they were like, okay, well we have to pivot here. It was around the time they went public. I can't remember. Yes, yes, that's when they public. Yeah, that's very smart. Yeah, that's when they went public. And so there was like a lot of pressure not well also, honestly, they pushed it with the

attitude there. They pushed it to a degree that was like, my this is on TV and my kid can't watch it. It's on a primetime spot. My kid can't watch it. So we're gonna have to reel it in real content change there, Yeah, for sure, And I wonder how much of that was Linda. Well no, and in politics. Yeah, that's actually a really important point because she was getting hammered when she was trying to run for office in Connecticut because people were like, how are you What is

this trash that you're putting on? And I do believe, even if it's just a little bit, that that has something to do with them suddenly going PG is that she has always had um, she's always wanted to be involved in politics, and they're realizing like, oh, well, we can't have you know, we can't be the show where and I wish this was fake. We can't be the show where our son in law is pretending to have sex with a dead body and then comes up with a handful of meat. We can't be that show. Yeah,

And she's currently in Trump's cabinet. Small business. So in March of two thousand and two, they decided to kind of separate their rosters and they put wrestlers on two different shows like what happened. They wanted people to watch different shows and have incentive to because you had SmackDown was on up N at the time, I believe, and then Raw was always It's always been on well on USA sometimes it's always been on cable cable, Yeah, at

least cable. So up n was, you know, was a channel that we all got, you know, with just the antennas, you know, the um so. I think that they wanted to give people different things to watch, but more incentive to watch, you know, if you want to see your wrestler. The Rock. The Rock was really the one who um uh coin kind of SmackDown Smacdun was part of one of his twenty eight catchphrases, Yeah he's so good. One of them was just about how much he likes to eat. Yeah, yeah,

she was. So they like literally named a brand after him because it's I mean again diversification of income. And now we're saying, like this new air kind of ushered in by the Rock, who was literally called the people's champion. So he like he encouraged a new audience, so he brought in and he sort of shepherd in new people into Ino. Smacdun, I think he actually brought up John Cina. I want to say that he the John Cina, didn't he have? Um what was Johnson's first story besides him

being the prototype after after that? Yeah, I know, his first thing was when he came in and interrupted Kurt Angle and they had their little Crid Angle, who is actually an Olympic champion who then became one of the best and most popular and most hilarious wrestlers of all time. He is the father of He's such a dad. He looks like he's always about to cry, and he also

looks like one of those thumb people from Spy Kids. Yeah, that's a new development because he used to not have he used to have hair, and then they cut his hair because they wanted to him to stop being the the um oh geez, guys, stop messing with me guy. Um they made him more Yeah, because they turned him I think at that point. And so he's kind of get the hair off since then. But um, yes, so so yeah, but this was the ruthless aggression era. This is you know, when we have the Randy Orton's coming

in Randy Battista. Um, so this was Dave Bautista. I'm also known as give me a name. I'm blinking on a reax. It's so crazy that he was able to hop over I never so cool. I love I mean obviously with the rock, but like, yeah, I mean being able to really it just goes back to them being

entertainers because being able to captivate large audiences. John Cena now is becoming he's comedic, comedic, like he's being a host now he's like he's like he was filling it for Ellen, Like that's wild Blockers and yeah bubble By, which he was great at. Yeah. Um yeah. So yeah, there was those eras and then they became and we've got to kind of condense some of this. We became the reality era, which is especially with the rise of

social media. Again, knowing that we're starting to get to a point where the fans are starting to know and and get more backstage rumors. We kind of know markmar Smart Smart Marks and now they started playing with well what is real and what is kabe? And they had reality shows what are we going to show you? Yeah?

What is real? And one of the big things out of that era was a wrestler are called CM punk did what is known as the pipe bomb UM, which is so in interviews, one of the terms for when a wrestler is doing a real interview where they're really talking and it's not KF they call it a shoot interview UM. And so pipe bomb was something that was he worked himself into a worked him well, it's also a worked shoot, and that it was meant to seem like it was real, and he peppered it in with

you know, he basically comes in, sits down. Um, he sits down over by I guess the Titan Tron whatever they call now. He sits on the ramp with a microphone in his hand and he just starts going off about how dumb the company is, about how he is going to leave because the company is really stupid, and he name dropped company company. Yeah, you just don't acknowledge them at all, but he was name dropping, I believe ring um. And so he was so convincing because he's

still one of the best talkers. He was so convincing that, like ESPN covered it, Um, real sport folks were like, is this guy just suddenly going off on w W E and blah blah blah. And so that really worked. And in fact, I had been taking a break from wrestling because um, there's only there weren't really any great women during the Ruthless Aggression era fields because I did the same thing. You're gonna check out because you're like,

oh Stone Colds gone. I took a break around like two thousand four, around then, and then I came back with the product wasn't great. The way they treated their women was abysmal, and so there was just nothing really in it for me. There was no China's you know, um, And so I came back with CM punk and the pipe Bomb because I was like, Oh, if you can trick Jim Rome, I want to see what's going on. I'm like, I'm so, I'm such a mark, Like I

am so easy to trick. It's so funny. You would think that, like with all the people that I know who work in the w w E, that I would have a some understanding of what's real and what's not. And I do not. Like I will text people, I will watch raw and then text somebody, are you okay?

And then yeah, dude, I'm okay. So, like this pipe bomb thing blew my mind insane because I mean I was pretty young, but I was also like, this is it, So go back on it and get chills like now, because I also learned about that pipe bomb, that pipe bomb promo, if you want to call it that, UM, I learned about other promotions from that, Like that was the first time I'd heard a ring of honor and never a lot of people was Yeah, so that was really exciting. Yeah, and so they started doing more of that.

Wrestlers were starting to get their own social media channels and some of them learning what they can and cannot do on there. Um. And so that is what brought us to, like I said, that kind of reality where we get total Divas, which is a show of you know, just the women, you know, the the glamour of being a woman female wrestler. Um and Nash. By the way, can you tell me some of the iconic women that

are in this today organization ever? China, China, Trish Stratus, Lida. Yeah, I believe he flips, like a lot of flips, and that was not what women did back then. Yeah. She was really great at doing cants, like she was like cool. You know, were seeing her when I was a kid, and I was like, oh, I can be that. We

all wanted to be that because she was relatable. She was you know, Tris Stratus was the opposite where she's kind of that nineties porn look um, but still was Badasso and she like she saved her and Lida, those two they worked, they worked each other so well because you know you had, um, you had that storyline going between them. UM, so that was fantastic. But today, yes and so, But one thing I do want to touch on.

We won't have time to get into it, but if you're ever interested Joshi wrestling in the nineties, UM, women wrestlers in Japan, if you ever get a chance to look some of those up. Some of those moves are so good that dudes were stealing their move sets. UM. So anyway, that's just something that's really good. But right now, yeah, we are in an era where women's wrestling is the best I think it's been. We've lost the term divas now in w TB. There now to superstars the same

as the male. Um. There's now a female tag team division, which didn't exist before because it was only tag team for man, you know man. And so yeah, we have our Sasha, we have Sasha Banks, we have Bailey, we have um Becky Lynch who is known as the Man right now, which she's holding two belts, she's holding two titles Becky in these and like I do have to say to you, if you are just a fan of w W and you're listening to this, I feel like a couple put overs is very important. So like Jordan Grace,

check her out. Yes, Tie Valkyrie, please check her out. Has a Blanchard from the Blanchard Dynasty, Please check her out. So like, do you know if if you're not finding what you need within the w W, which I find to be impossible because if you're not finding what you need on the main brands, check out an xt. Oh my god, Kyrie Sane. Did she get called up? She

got called up? But you know what that is a great UM, that's a good segue because that was something that UM we wanted to talk about, is how people actually get into the WW these days. UM. And so there is something called the Performance Center now where they

have their own basically Big Jim in Florida. And some people come in because they are recruited from other other sports and they'll say, I like your look, you come and do a try out and see if you can get a wrestler, a lot of football players, a lot of Olympians, UM. And then for some people, they are people who have gotten a good name or made a good name for themselves on the indies. And so a lot of these days, a lot of so cow people

coming in these days, like Matt Riddle. Rick is like, we're seeing a good amount of so cow wrestlers, which I'm happy about because I think it's the best wrestling in the world. Um UM that stands for pro wrestling grill. It's one of the best UM independent wrestling shows ever. It happens once a month. It's impossible to get tickets. So n x T is the brand where if you get good enough, it happens UM Wednesdays. They're pre taped. If you get good enough, that's where they train you

to start being able to be on TV. And so that is is you know, you start getting onto n x T, you start getting TV time, you learn how to really be on TV, and that is the next step towards getting drafted onto the main roster, which is either on the SmackDown roster or the raw roster. And this is new because like what they're they're not just teaching them that like I said earlier, the w w B style not because a lot of people have to unlearn things like Ricochet when he came in, he had

to unlearn how to physically hurt somebody. Yeah, because when you look at these indies like these people are killing each other. If you look at New Japan, these people are hurting each other. There's like, no, I'm you're gonna you're gonna feel it. I'm gonna need you in the face, and that's what's gonna happen because it's gonna look fake otherwise. But they have to unlearn that and it is a skill. But on top of that, they're also getting Mike skills,

like they're getting developmental skills. They come in and they pitch characters. So it's kind of like an interesting creative space. And important to note that Triple H is actually the one in charge of the n X team was one of the people that that um Um pushed a lot of people, a lot of the independent people on there, and that's why we sort of appreciate how he's championed um these people that we admire so much from the indies, like Ricochet, because one of the big things is that

they can actually keep their name now. Before they would come in and we're like, Chris Hero, we're changing your name to Cassie Us. Oh no, it's like, oh, that's not good for my brand, But okay, so now Ricochet is Ricochet and so that's the feels good. Yeah, that is nice. I don't know how we did that. There's

literally so much to cover with this. If y'all are down, I would love to have you come back on because I know we didn't even get to talk about our friends that are in it, you know, which is it was great though, because this is an introduction to talk about the history of where it came from. I'm very aware listener that we might not have touched on your favorite, UM wrestler. It's very obvious these women are extremely educated

on this and probably know your favorite wrestlers. So feel free to tweet at us and let us know kindly and be like, oh, this is my favorite or this is my you know, my first memory. UM. But if you're going to say you left out this, I can guarantee that they already know it backwards and forwards. UM. And it was my fault for having to cut our time because we have to record after this, UM, because we love y'all and we're trying to do our best

getting you everything possible that you want. I would love for you all to come back though, so we can talk about some of the culture and the future of wrestling. That would be women of wrestling and um yeah, just what it currently looks like now and and how social media has affended all of that. Thank you all for coming out. Um, Janelle, where can everyone catch you? Um At? Janelle Santa Cruz is my social media name on everything on Tuesday's. Actually after this episode comes up, um, I

will be on Uh. I do a show on hyper RPG, Twitch, dot tv, slash hyper apart Um called blood Curling Tales of Terror where it's it's an eighties RPG and uh it's a horror thing and we're actually blood curdling tales and time now, so we're time traveling. I play miss Land Hamilton's um that it's a good time. And so from Texas, Texas, break out my Texas accent um um. And then uh yeah from Houston. You guys are both from Texas, girl from both where from daniel I'm from Seattle,

I'm boring. Hey yeah, Danielle, what can everyone catch you yet? You can find me, um just on my social media. My Twitter is Danielle Radford. You can find me on Instagram and daniel Underscore Radford again. My podcast Tights and Fights on the Max Fun Network comes out every Thursday. Um, where we recap wrestling. But and then I make lots of jokes about it that are inappropriate, um, saying things like work me daddy, or kind of promo one myne um,

which apparently is the thing that I do. Um. You can also if you like the honest trailers on screen junkies, I write those sometimes, so check them out so I keep getting paid by Yeah. Oh hih. You can find me all over the internet at Rachel sam Evans or Rachel same Vans. It depends on how your brain works. And uh yeah, but that's you know, you don't have to watch my stuff. That's fine, we do you know, you don't whatever, guys, but you can find me literally

at any wrestling show. We truly are over the place. Yeah, if you were in southern California, Fornia, chances are I will be at the independent wrestling show happening that week, So come say hi please. I know you all are both such a big fans of independent right, Like I feel like that's such a huge part of the Yeah I'm at Miss Danny Fernandez. Um, yeah, check us out

on te Public. We have a bunch of merch. We're gonna add some wrestling merch we'll add some wrestling merch for this UM, so it's t public dot com, slash and nificent. UM. Thank you again for joining us. We will do part two of this, I promise, because I feel like you'll have even more tea to educate me about. We haven't even gotten into the like real spicies. You have just an allte episode and that will make people.

People that don't watch wrestling will want to watch this problem. UM. Like we always say, stay nerdy,