Episode 53: Teen Titans

you're like, oh, I'm sorry. We also we don't cuss, but they'll believe I'm sorry before we started we do, but um, we're not supposed to. Sorry. So you liked it, but but I saw a lot of people online that didn't. I did like it. Um. I like it because I'm trying to hope that everything is awesome, Like what if it's awesome instead of what if it totally because I've been surprised by things that I thought were going to

suck and turned out to be awesome in the past. Um, and the opposite as well, like with some current movies that are superho genres in the theater right now, and I really like the cast, so I was super into that, and I'm into the fact that the art here is more referential to the original comic strips. Totally like it because it feels like a departure from the nineties cartoon or the live actions. Yeah, but the cast is so incredible. I mean, Oscar Isaac what so I was really excited

about that. If everyone else isn't excited, there's more for me. Yeah, that's fine, that's fine. I know. There's that weird thing that it feels like people are like, well, if people are liking a thing I don't like, I have to make sure they know that they shouldn't like it. Like people don't like have differing opinions anymore. It feels like, well, we're not allowed to write and then if if they're a fan of you, they get extra mad about it

because we're all supposed to be friends online. But you know what, friends disagree in real life and it's okay. I promise it'll be okay. I'm so for like wanting things to do well, and um I love anytime, Like say, if a movie doesn't do as well but someone loves it, I like that because it means that you were able to enjoy it in some way, Like any time the world is horrible and anytime anyone can enjoy anything. I'm a fan of it. Yeah, it's also start hurting anyone, right,

that's the big role. Um. If you what are you into this week? Oh man, I'm into I got back into Rainbow six Siege. Tom Clancy's Rainbow six. It's great. Yeah, you know, I used to go so hard at it and then I just got distracted by other games. And today me and my boy Mr Moogli, we did a squad stream and got all the way up to uh gold too. So I think I might actually hit Platte for the first time in my Rainbow six Siege career this season. So I am proud of you. I can't

tell if Danna no, okay, never mind. I thought somebody was clapping in the back, but they weren't. That was towards the dog, you said, Mr Magoo when you were explaining. So in my brain, you've had a tiny white blind man following you around throught the whole game. If I'm super into the Twilight Zone that dropped, and that's another thing that a lot of people have been Yeah, um, I do feel like it feels like the original Twilight Zones. Obviously it's not going to feel exactly like them. Um,

nor should it. Probably it's going to be somebody else's take on it. But I do feel like a lot of people who are just like I saw the twist coming. I'm like, then, maybe it wasn't about the twist. Like if it was just about the twist, it might be like an m Night Shamalan type of thing. But there are some very heated points of social commentary that happened in a couple of the episodes that I feel people

are not talking about. And I feel like, as a woman of color, I did kind of especially Adam Scott's hit me in a different way. So um, that's all I'll say on that. But yeah, and wait it and I can't wait for the next one to drop this Thursday. This is not an ad for them, weird? Should we should? Though? I should be getting my CBSL access for free. Um, here's here's a fun thing about CBSL Access. If you can't see your subscription a year and a half later,

you can still access everything that's exclusive on there. Because I canceled mine to Valentine days ago and I still have access to all the exclusive content. Are you sure they're not charging you on? Like something that I forgot about. Called them and I checked all my bank statements and shout out to Reshot, the gentleman who helped me, and he's like, he was like, I don't know, man, just

keep watching it. Okay, We're always giving you guys hot tips here Underdificent or maybe they just know who you are, and it was like, we want you to write about it. We really liked that thirty one episode Star Trek parody web series that you made in So you can watch Discovery as long as you want. And it's funny because I'm not the one in my household to watch just Discovery. Oh yeah, Anthony rap is not enough to keep me

watch in that show. And I do love Rent. So I'm going to keep watching all of twilight Zone because I want to see what the other episodes are there. You go, um, today we are covering teen Titans, and actually you are an expert in these in these kiddos, they're my favorite super team. When Danny asked me if this was a subject that I knew anything about or liked, I was super thrilled and I was like, how nerdy can I get? Because they're the best. They were the

top selling DC title for twelve years. What years were those? Uh eighty two, nine two? It was between them and then the Uncanny X Men or the top two best selling comics. That's the new Teen Titans, the Wolfman Perez era that affected and inspired the TV shows that I

think we're gonna be talking a lot about today. Yeah, but yeah, they're very important, and they're actually in terms of profitability, DC's most profitable franchise really, So we like to think about the Justice League, but to the Justice League, how comics? Uh, Teen Titans have comics as well. There's also Titans Young Justice. All fall under that same banner. It's all the same creative teams and all the same characters. So they have more titles consistently that sell better than

Justice League, although Justice League has more issues. So if you did, I can't do math, and I certainly can't do math for inflation, Justice League probably wins in the comics. However, we've only had one Justice League movie, and it's arguably a whiff. It's controversial at best. We've had one animated television show that's over a decade old. Teen Titans had the original animated television show Teen Titans Go, which is DC Warner Animations most successful DC property show that also

spun out on an animal there. Even though I know you're on this okay trend because this is gonna be my one like rant and I'm gonna try and keep it at that. But the reason I stopped you at Teen Titans Go is a lot of people grew up on the teen Titans before that me included, and loved it. And I feel like Teen Titans Go got so much hate online from people out of the age range, like so many people who grew up on the first team titles like not my teen Ties, not my teen Titans.

And I get that you want something for you, but just go ahead and repeat what you just said about Teen Titans Go. That is the most successful animated show and it's spun out its own animated movie. So many people try and push this idea online that they keep pushing this bad Teen Titans Go. But if it's it's most profitable, it seems like it's not as bad as we want to believe it is. I get you want the serious, you know, dark teen Titans uh that we have,

but that time's over. We had it and we enjoyed it. Now the kids that the demo that is watching that time slot is getting something they enjoyed, so layoff. Yeah, I mean we saw that with Shira and with ThunderCats. I mean that was yeah, I'll say that was just straight up bologny just with those because at least teen Titans, you know go, We're like, oh, I know, I know because I was. I'm of that same one. But no one was watching Shira like that, Like no, just on

the original Shira. But the people who were complaining about it, We're not like sheep show me the Shira figures show. We saw that at at least with ThunderCats were like, not my animation. I'm like, come on, like we are Why would they redo something they already did? Yeah, someone did a really good uh post about it. Someone uh And normally I hate long drawn out YouTube rants, but this one happened to be on my side and it worked. But they pointed out that there was a dark ThunderCats

that they did and it flopped. It did not do well, so what so what are you asking for them to do the thing that didn't work again or to try something fun, which, once again we just said, teen Titans Go is the most profitable teen Titans. So now that makes you now, now maybe that you're hearing facts, you'll understand why they went with that art direction because the

kids that it's made for like it. I was. I was in that camp as well, where I was like, not my teen Titans super mad, Like the original Teen Titans did the Judas Contract, which is so great and like so monumental in comic book history, like forget about Teen Titans history, And I was like, what is this nonsense? But if you watch Teen Titans go, it is excellent, and they make dark side jokes which is a very

deep cut. And then if you go to any convention, you look around there are tiny children dressed up like Raven and Beast Boy and Cyborg and all these characters that otherwise nobody cares about. And that's the power of that show and that's why it matters, and that's why it's important. And if you don't like it, then don't watch it. And like we were saying earlier, and I want everyone who complained online and me included, I I felt it when I saw it, and I knew it

was our fault. All our complaints are the reasons we got. And I know it's going to get bleep Batman. That's that's that was gonna be like, oh, y'all want a dark teen Titans, All right, let's help you out. We did that. For people that don't what you're referencing, iffy oh, for people who don't know, there's the live action Titan show, which, uh, you know, I feel got It's funny because I'm in a weird place with that because I feel like there is some hate to be deserved, but I also felt

like it got too much hate. Like I'm like right in the middle where it's like, well, let's calm down. But also, yeah, this is not looking that great. But there everyone knows Batman's code. He doesn't kill we Actually we're talking about that. Not too long ago, there is a scene where Robin snapped someone's neck by stepping on them and someone says something like Batman and he goes. They put it in the trailer downd DC Universe two

years after they promised we were getting DC Universe. Also, what's funny is like, as much as people hated that, there were some people online who I saw I was like, yeah, that's good, that was probably me. I love it, but I'm I'm not trying to be a trolled. I just like when ever people people are going to get upset whenever people take risks and do like a different take. But I understand, I understand why that doesn't always work to me. I just like when we're super I like

seeing the bizarro world. Yeah, I like the opposite, Like I don't always want the same thing. I like seeing like what if this person did go off the deep end and was like, yes, go off the deep end. But honestly, that's the true heart of comics, because that's how you get things like Red Sun, and you get things like you know, Old Man Logan like you, that's

the there. Someone pointed this out to me a while ago when I really were was reading capes and they're saying they stopped reading capes because they got too obsessed with cannon and we stopped doing these one off fun things like All Star Superman and Superman is fun. I mean it's fun in the sense All Star Superman made me like Superman because I was to Superman and then when I saw it, yeah, yeah, it makes down. Wait, how did you not like Superman? He was doing perfect

but you like, go he's dumb. Goku's dumb. You know what I'm saying. His flaw is that he has this childishness about him and that he does put people in danger because he wants to challenge himself. Superman is just perfect. He's smart, he's handsome, he is the top of his job, he gets the girl. He can't do anything wrong. He's not dumb, you know. Like, so he is too perfect. But I could see where you would think, oh with Goku. But Goku does have so many flaws that I'm constantly

debating against online. Also, we're not here to talk about Superman. But when you were, Um, I'm originally from Canada, so when you're not American, yeah, Superman is sort of held up. It's Superman in Captain America, held up as like these bastions of American identity. So for me growing up, I was like, you can't like Superman, I'm not American, which is funny because he's like an immigrant. But yeah, but I hadn't thought about that as a a I mean, I married a white guy from a farm in Kansas,

so clearly I've come around. But I remember when I was in university. I went to the University of Ottawa, which is Canada's capital City. UM had a really good friend. He's actually on that YouTube show Wayne now is one of the twins. I haven't seen it. That's just the thing that people might know. He had a Superman belt buckle, and I was like, you're Canadian, you cannot wear that.

We were like getting vites about that. But Superman is a difficult character for people to come around on, which is why I think Teen Titans, like I was saying, was so successful, because they are deeply flawed. Um, Robin is the best among them, and Dick Grayson as the best. Robin is a deeply flawed leader, but he grows up to lead the Justice League. So yeah, so let's get

into the characters. So you brought up Dick Grayson. What would you say his personality for people that are just listening to this as far as his motivation and yeah, so Dick Grayson is the o g Robin Um. When he was first introduced, he's very much what you would think of as like the Ward Robin from the Adam

West Batman. He's very like, ah, ge, I'm the perfect sidekick and I'm enthused to be here, Like he is the light to Batman's dark and that evolves into a more interesting thing as the character goes along and he takes on the night Wink d Unity, which happens during this New Teen Titans. But the o G Teen Titans, which is funny, are not in the show notes. UM We're started in nineteen sixty four as an answer to the Avengers, UM and some of the first teams that

Marvel was putting out. So it was Robin Kid, Flash Aqualat, and Wonder Girl, and they only ran for a couple of years in a bunch of backup stories because they weren't very good, and then they put them to bed until Wolfman and Perez, who, in my opinion you can fight me online about it, are the greatest creative team in comics. UM created the New Teen Titans in the eighties, So that version of Robin is the very like Plucky Galli g We're here to do our best and that's

all that they do. They fight like a bunch of kind of star ow starfish monsters and a lot of

their adventures. But then later on UM it's a it's all about when they bring on these new character it's about stepping out of the shadow of your mentor, which is why I think again, they're flawed and people like that, and Robin in the beginning is a bad leader because he's a bit like the eighties were the beginning of Super Dick Batman thanks Frank Miller, where he's really mean and he like he actually punches Nightwing in the face like in the early two thousand um and Dick has

a little bit of that kind of turn because he's trying to do all of this on his own and he has to learn to open up to everyone around him, and then he dates an alien for a while, so but he's always the de facto leader, and then later on there's different incarnations of the team, but always there's always a Robin in charge. So like right now it's Damien Wayne, which makes me mad, but it's why why

do you not like Damien Wayne? I if I could undo one thing in comic book history, Damien Wayne, I love it because it was the To me, it was a perfect wrench in Batman, even though Damien Wayne came at a tough time, which I can see why, because Damian Wayne came at the time where there was seven bat comics. You had Batman, you had Nightwing, you had the Black Batman, which I forget his name, bat Wing, and you had a Bad Girl Batwoman, and you had

Batman incorporated. It was there were so many bat comics and then they're like, oh, and there's Damien and you're like, all right, this is there's too many bats. It was almost when it was class season for Marvel when you had Dack in which da can I can I love him and hate him at the same time. But then you have Wolverine x twenty three and and then they all had their own comics a comic together, and then

Wolverine had like three different comics. Uh so I I remember at that time being like, this is getting super expensive. But what I like about Damien is it is the ultimate challenge to him because it's like, Okay, Batman has always had a robin, but what if there's a robin he can't just fire because it's his son and this person straight up, Mrs people, did you know that Wolverine

skunk Bear. That's my favorite thing about Wolverine, Yeah, skunk So we have a joke on Geek hisry lesson that Wolverine and all of his adopted children because they're never like part of his actually they're like a pride of illegitimate skunk bearers because they just like follow him around and sometimes I'm trying to kill him. Um. And then I understand Damian Wayne narratively because you are presenting us with what if Bruce Wayne never had Alfred? And like

that's that character exploration. But for me, Tim Drake is my favorite superhero, and Jim Drake is the best of all times. Your favorite superhero Red Robin Jason Todd is right. Okay, there's like seven, depending on if you count Carrie Kelly or not. Oh man, you always got a country. I always got. I used to find and when I was in university, I used to find the one guy at a party with a Batman shirt and get in an argument. There's always one. There's always one, and you are the debate. Yeah.

I like to scream at them about how important really named seven of his records? It was I didn't. I was not popular. Oh you used your nerd um for for bad but I respected. Okay. But the reason I don't like Davien is because I think it is so powerful that Batman, even though he is so broken, becomes an adoptive father, and I think giving him a biological son who we can never get rid of because he's his biological son. I think for me it sort of cuts the power of that narrative off at the knees.

But I've enjoyed him. I really enjoy him in Super Signs where he's against the new super Boy. I think that's really interesting. Um, but I would still lendo him from me, I cannot, I would super him. He's My favorite representation of Dick Grayson is in Lego Batman, which is so funny. Why are you giggling? Because that's the cutest one I know, But it's the most robbin thing I can think of. And it's so funny because Hector Navarro, who we all know that's his favorite iteration of Batman

is Lego Batman. That's a ton of people's online. Sorry, no, it's it's so perfectly uh, I think illustrated. I didn't laugh because it's a bad thing, because it's just it seems like such a d I think it's that, Yeah, you go for like the super innocent because like for me, Dick Greyson, because I came up reading nineties comics, is like kind of the sexy robin and he should always be played by Matt Bomer, who he will never be able to be played by because Bomber and Doom Patrol. Now,

I used to want him to be Vegina. I wanted everyone to be Vegina. Um yeah, anyways, fun fact about Doom Patrol. Uh, because cyborgs in it. Haven't you noticed? Um that Okay? I really one of my favorite things about the Justice League movie, which I think you can also put under the Teen Titans is a great franchise standard because it does have Cyborg in it, is Ray Fisher as Cyborg. He's I think he's such a great live action Cyborg and he brings such manity to that character.

Where Um, this is light spoiler because I heard this mention before the show started. The shows the cartoons like to be like, I'm a robot and you're like, but you're a real boy. Like if it's not a Pinocchio scenario, Um yeah, I really the one. I think Doom but you I cannot believe it's any good. It's very good asterisks except Cyborg. They looked like they glue to target mask.

Then maybe that was a good thing because I auditioned for Cyborg and I was and that was a big moment for me because I told my manager years before Justice because Lee came out. I was like, it was when they first announced Titan. It's not the one that was on here, but that was exactly. I was like, you need to look into this and I need to be Cyborg. My managers, I need to be Terra. So that never happened. Uh, And so then smash cut two and I was like, oh my gosh, I missed the

opportunit unity. And I looked it up and ray Fisher was Cyborg. Because I found out about Justice League, I was just getting ready. I like found out right after ray Fisher was cast, but I didn't know he was cast yet, and I was like, Cyborg Mission part two, let's go. And then I looked and they've had ray Fish and I was like, damn, I just can't be Cyborgs. So then this Cybord time and then like but look looking at him. They wanted a much younger I think

he the character is eighteen or nineteen. Yeah, And I don't think Joven read I believe his actor's name. I don't think he's bad. I just think I don't understand why they didn't just make a beast boy because comics. Um, I just think what they're doing with Cyborg is not It's not what I want, and the writing on it is very strange and I don't quite understand. I just need to say a side note about Ray Fisher though, is that he played like a kid in college and

he's in his thirties. And I saw him in True Detective and it did not register yea. And it took me, honestly, because I think I was looking at the hass which, by the way, if you didn't watch the season three of Two Detectives, it was so good, but like he was in it, it it took me forever to register that that was him, be grown ass man with kids and stuff. I was like, what ALS thought you were in college athlete? A college athlete, we welcome to TV casting room. Still

play teenager. That's true. But just to say one more weird thing about Ray Fisher. Um, when you realize how tall the whole Justice League castes, it's really disconcerting. I met him and Ezra Miller at a convention once, and Ezra Miller is like fully six one, and I thought he was my hight I'm five and a half. Fell there. It's such a doll cast. It says here Ray Fishers six three and I can only imagine gal Gadote is

easily eight feet tall. And then they put her in heels, which is my only gripe with Wonder Woman, I was like, why she had yales um but she's not in the Dean Titans. Sorry continue m yeah, please continue on with letting us know the rest of the rest of the main corpse. Yes, the main corp of Teen Titans is Dick Grayson is the leader. Wally West Kid Flash Ak the Best Flash And we did a whole episode on Flash where Sam was also team Wally West is the

Best Flash Kid Flash. That was funny because Sam and I fight about that sometimes. I guess that's not what he said. No, I wonder what he what is his normal go to? He usually what we argued he likes Bury was his intro character, So I get that, like your intro is usually it's like your first doctor, Like that's the person who's most important to you. Um Roy Harper Um Arsenal slash Um Baby Red Arrow is often

a member of the team who quits part way through. Donna, Troy, Wonder Girl, uh Gar, Logan, Aqualad and then in the new Teen Titans cast, they add Cyborg, Raven, beast Boy who's sometimes called Change ling Um, and Starfire and then Raven. But Raven, as we all know, becomes that sort of complicated bad guy in the most important story arc of

all time, the Judas Contract. But the eighties team was cool because they did all those original legacy characters, but they married these new characters in and it's become the defining role of like Cyborg, beast Boy, Raven, Starfire is their involvement with the Titans, even though Cyborg has graduated

to be in the Justice League now. And whenever they've tried to do just an original team, like in the nineties, Dan Jurgen's Ledendaries, Superman Murderer, Um and the creator and writer came on, he did an all original team Titans, and that book flopped. Is one of the only Teen Titans book that's sort of been canceled, And since then it's always been a mix of legacy characters and original characters, even though there were some really great characters on that

team who got co opted into later teams. Um and I think it's really interesting that balance that they found in the eighties has been what's informed all of the versions of the team going forward. Yeah, our friend, uh, Tara Strong is a voice of Raven and Tara. That's so funny. Yeah, she got to It's always cool when you get to play your namesake. Yeah. I think it's

spelled differently, but that's okay. I was actually bummed that in the current Young Justice cartoon that she's not the voice of ar Yeah, but I get it's a new universe. You gotta have to. It's like every time Carry Peyton is not the voice of Cyborg, I'm like, what's going on here? Why is this? Michael V. Jordan's I don't know how I feel about this. We have to take a really quick break and then we're gonna hop more

into two Titans. Right after this we are back, and actually before we got into some of our favorite tea Titans moments. Iffy, I know you have a moment that you talked about on the Daily Zeite guys, which is

really funny. It's so funny because like it was a moment I totally forgot about but then remembered when I saw it, and it was it was actually a pretty cool episode where like, you know, it kind of uh, try to deal with the races him because it was talking about racism and Starfire's family and he was like, oh, I definitely know about that. And he was like, oh, you you know about being judged because of the color of your skin or because of how you look. And

he was like, yeah, I'm a robot. It's so great because because it definitely gets so close and I could definitely be just see the network notk of being like now I pull that back, just say it's because he's a robot. Can I ask you, um, what is potentially an ignorant white person question that you're under no real otis to answer, But I'd like to ask you, as an African American person, how do you feel about booya

as a catchphrase? Oh? You know, I didn't care. It seemed like yeah, yeah, because it seemed like one of those things like he's saying something cool, but we don't want to make anything like, you know, seems like it's because he's black. You know, because when he said it in Justice League, like I was really excited, and then I saw a bunch of people who I respect and who I look to for guidance because I was not

a person of color I don't know. Um, I got really mad about it, and I was like, oh, I just thought it was really cool that he said the catch for you. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think some you know, not a diss on them, but some people are just like hyper sensitive of what one way would be taken. But I feel like the only way to have taken that was that it was a call back to something he always said in Teen Titans, just like an X Men when he says I'm the Juggernaut bitch.

Like it's like I don't to like across the world. Yeah, like to like, you know, take that in any other way. I you know, I think there's more to unpass, you know, It's just I don't know. I don't agree. I don't even agree that you could really take issue. I don't want to control how anybody feels about anything, but there

I feel like there's a level too. Now there's there's this social currency to find the things wrong that are not woke, and it leads to people just jumping to stuff when they might have like even if they didn't like it, be like all right, that's kind of whack and move on. But now that you can get likes, retweets, in clicks. It kind of encourages more to kind of lean into something you might have just let go. Okay, so I'm allowed to like it good. That's all I

care about. So, actually, what are some of your favorite Team Titans moments? So I've mentioned the Judas Contract repeatedly. The Judas Contract is the Terra betrayal of the team to Slade Wilson in the comics. Um, it's much creepier because she's sixteen. She's sleeping with Slade, who's liked and eight five years old by that point because he's kind

of a super soldier. Didn't Buffy also do that? Though every franchise vulnerable female and slept with you know, the typical story sleeps with one hundred and eight year old teenage girl, you know, falls for the vampire. Sorry, go ahead. And that's that's huge, and it's been There's been a version of it in every single Teen Titans storyline, including Teen Titans Go. They made a standalone animated DC movie not in the continuity of the shows about that as well.

It's rumored to be the plot of Teen of Titans season two. That always comes to mind for me. There's an episode of Teen Titans go where Robin is really mad that the Titans aren't working hard enough, which is an echo to a lot of past storylines, and so he just makes a team of other Robbins and he does it by saying cocka and then they come in the windows and as you do as a as a

Robin stand that speaks to my heart. Carrie Kelly's in that Tim Drake is in that he's got like bangs across his face and he's all mad, and then um, a very golden age decrease and it's like, golly g I'm here to help my favorite. Um. So that stands out to me. I wish I could say literally anything from the Titans show. Um, but it's escaping me right now. And I really love the second generation of the team that Jeff John's introduces in uh the early aughts early

two thousand's Tim Drake leaves that team. Cyborg, Raven and Starfire are mentors, and there's a moment at the end of their first arc where the Justice League basically shows up to tell these Team Titans that they've done a bad job, and then Dick Grayson comes down from the sky and it really sexy night going suit and it's like, no, Bruce, they're doing great. Like it kind of bestows the team mantle onto them. And I really really love that as well.

That's Dick's always showing up to be like, Bruce, you need to like just come. That reminds me of that reminds me of um. I love clichees scenes like that because it reminds me of the end of Cinderella Story where Chad Michael Murray his dad is his coach, and he like leaves the field and his dad is like, Austin, you're throwing away your dream and Chad Michael Murray turns back to him and he's like, no, Dad, I'm throwing

away yours. How old. Probably I just love anytime there's corny, I am such but the funny thing is okay because in some of these and in some of these live action superhero films, a lot of people have been like, I hate how corny the dialogue is, and I'm like, have you literally read a comic? Comics have the corniest

dialogue ever. Comics also and and caps in types, especially like it deals in archetypes, and it deals in broad strokes, and like, particularly in d C, it's very heavy mythology, Greek tragedy, heroes, journey like, so we're not dealing in subtleties most of the time, unless you're reading something like Old Star Superman or anything that the Almighty Grant Morrison has bestowed on this earth that we are not worthy of. You know, most of the time you're dealing in like

broad strokes. There's a great in season four of the O G teen Titans cartoon. That's when the Raven and beast Boy romance really gets going. And I love it so much, and she hugs him once and he freaks out and he gets like the big pseudo anime eyes because it was one of the first cartoons that they animated in Korea. But I wrote here and she's like, I'm I'm not sad, I'm just really weird, and no

one tries to understand. And like she tells boy how much she appreciates him and how much she really likes him, and that's very cheesy, like you would see that in an E c W show. But I think when you have characters with the stakes of saving the world, maybe you earn a couple of heavy handed dialogue. I mean, for sure, I'm just saying that like when I look at let's say, Spider Man, like, I mean that has

some of the cheesiest dialogue and it works for him. Yeah. Yeah, and it works for a lot of these teen characters. I feel like it, especially with the stereotype right um. Danny and I have talked about this in the past, that like, teens are silly and they're for both, and they use slang, and when you give it to people who haven't been teens in a minut it to write, sometimes it comes out looking like, oh, I've seen this before. I saw this in Lizzie McGuire, or in Kimpossible, or

in like every other teen thing that we've ever experienced. Yeah. I was telling her before we recorded that I was writing on this show and they had the young teenage son say something about like, yeah, me and my squad. I'm like, he wouldn't say that. Make the dad say that, because then it sounds like funnier if the dad's like, hey, trying to hang out with your squad, and the kids

just like no, dad, like stop embarrassing me. But yeah, it is funny when you have older people writing for teens and they think that, yeah, which I get it. That's often what happens, because I think the one of the only shows that ever did that with Skins. I don't think anyone the writer's room could be older than one. But for the most part, like it is adult people producing this just content. Please hire me to write on te Titans. Yeah, we're young in hip everyone at this

table right now, Yes, exactly. Well, Actually, if people wanted to get into Teen Titans, where would you I mean, what would you recommend that they pick up? Oh? Man, the eiest thing that they could do is truly watch the original cartoon. Um. It's the one that's most heavily steeped in the mythology. So if you want something that's like a little more ongoing, a little more reminiscent of the comics, you can get that on the DC Universe

app Um. You can also get it lots of other places on the Internet if you are into creative uh, consuming of your content. Not that any of us here justify or legitimize something like that. I would also recommend they have really great omnibi which are like the big heavy we can do arm curls with them, collections of the New Teen Titans, that's the eighties series that was the number one comic for twelve years. Those are my

two recommendations on where to start. Um or if I can be really shameless UM my podcast Key History Lesson. We have a two part almost three hour series on the Teen Titans that I teach. So if you want this in macro Cosm, go google X. It's from a couple of years ago. I wanted to say that I um recently he bought George press Is on a Bus of Wonder Woman Speaking So Good, which is from like right around that same era. He draws my favorite woman's

hair in a love comics. He also has a great run on The Avengers in the nineties with Kurt Music if you like his art, and recently retired from comics. So thank you so being in the team. Being in the Teen Titans world. Who do you? I mean? I feel like a lot of people This might just be the where I'm at online, but I feel like a lot of people gravitate towards Beast Boy, that's like their favorite do you? Who do you feel like? Because you're

more heavily steeped in in that fandom? Like who do you often see as people's who would how would you rank them? Or like as most popular. UM, I think Raven is probably the most popular. She's the most obviously outsider character. It's tougher with the comics, right, because you have these legacy here, just like Robin is obviously going to be the most popular, just in terms of his imprint. He's in the larger pop cultures, I guess, but of

sort of the New teen Titans. I would say it's like Raven beast Boy, and people like beast Boy because he's got the yucks uh Starfire Cyborg. But Cyborg also occupies this really interesting position now where he's become representative of, um, this sort of diversity movement that we've had post New fifty two, which is when they were like, damn, the

Justice League is all white, what can we do about this? Okay, Wonder Woman is a woman of color, I guess, because we color her slightly more brown than everyone else and promote Cyborg. So he sort of embodies this wave even before the movies of d C B like more aware, and there's obviously a lot of work to go. So like, I don't think he's necessarily as popular, but I think

he's one of the more impactful characters. But I think in terms of popularity, it's definitely beast Boy and Braven at the top, and they're a huge ship as well, so that works out really. Yeah, there's some spicy scenes, especially when they get to be adult people like in the Titans storyline. Yeah, if you like that, there are great comics to be had. So have you watched a lot of Teen Titans Go? Yes? Now? I have not. I didn't watch it. I mean it's still airing. I

didn't watch a lot of it live. It took me a long time because I'm a grumpy old person to be convinced that it was any good. And here that's how it worked for me. I you know, I was the same like not my Teen Titans. But I also

was like, layoff, it's just not for me. And then as clips kind of start trickling online through Tumbler and all that, I kind of like, I think what really turned me around to it was that really self aware episode they have had where they like dipped back into the old Teen Titans style and kind of tease the basically tease the fans who were mad about this new style. And I thought it was pretty great. And I think I sat down and maybe one or two episodes and

it really enjoyed them. The movie does that as well, and Soft promises that we're going to get maybe on the DC streaming service, that we're going to get more of that. I don't know. All of the Teen Titans Go content used to be on Hulu. I think it might not be anymore because I don't understand the DC app. I think everything is on that. I think they really

pulled everything. Um. But a bunch of people on Tumbler actually started pointing out some of the continuity points and I kept seeing that they have a stuffed dark Side who sits against their couch, and I was like, that's really funny. What is that about? And then yeah, I started watching the episodes and there is a continuity to it that's really funny. Think their version of Trygun, who is Raven's demon father, who I m I think is voiced by Kevin Michael Richardson. But if that's wrong, I'm

really sorry. Um. I think that's really funny. And I think the more time you spend with the show, it's like when you watch King of the Hill. King of the Hill I used to watch because it was on after The Simpsons, and I was like, this sucks, this is boring, this is not funny. And then the more you watch and you're like, this is really good and Deean Titans Go is very that and if people haven't checked it out, Kevin Michael Richardson's you're right, thank you,

thank you for looking on your magic phone. I have a laptop in front of me that I did not use Google on. I got the new iPhone S Max Plus, so you know I can search for stuff real quick. I know you got a really slick case on it too. Yeah, you know, I like to keep a woodsy Yeah. So people on Instagram ask if he wanted his phone case. Looks like, I can't take a picture of it. I'm sorry, do a nice mirror selfie. Yes, I follow you on Instagram. That's your thing, right, Yeah, that's so my thing. I

was gonna say, that's my person. I don't know you. Someone compared um just the side right really quick a person from a very famous MAGA photo to Bobby Hill, and then in the next week they were like, I can't do that to Bobby Hill. He's so sweet and innocence. People are always sending me because there's this artist that does um, it'll be like d Busy, It'll be the King of the It'll be like Bobby as like Trunks or something like, oh yeah, I should show it to you,

and like Peggy as Bolma. All Right, we have to take a quick break. We're gonna get into We didn't tackle um their powers, so I wanted to talk a little bit about their powers as well as the future of Tea Titans this and we're back. Yeah, let's tuckle their powers really quick. So starting off with um, let's start with beast Boy. Okay, I'm really sorry that we've made it this far and I've just spoken like everybody knows all of these characters, and everyone in the room

with me knows these characters. Um. Beast Boy, who is sometimes called change Ling, was depending on the continuity, Uh, let's just say afflicted by something in the jungle because his parents were explorers and turned green. Was poisoned and given the powers to transform into any animal he wants. So those are his powers. And sometimes in the show's also dinosaurs because why not. And then Raven Raven is half demon son most of the continuities, her father is

try again. She is effectively a portal into Azarath, which is a demon health scape and that also allows her to fly because of reasons and to project um like Sue Storm energy bubbles that are usually colored black. They have like nothing really to do with her powers or like the base of her powers. But that's the thing that she has energy bubbles. And I guess we would say Robin, he's really rich. Yeah, I know, I always started with Robin. I'm like, wait a second, Oh yeah, Affluenza.

Dick Rayson specifically is um and a trained acrobat. Yes, thank you. Jason Tod is flexible, yeah, very flexible. UM also in his sexuality. In my opinion, Jason Todd was murdered. That's his superpower. Tim Drake is the smartest character in the DC universe other than Lex Luthor, Batman, and Mr Trivic, who are the three smartest characters in the DC universe. Um Damien is a trained Ninja sot. I guess those are how they're all different? Yeah, no one asked for that.

I'm so sorry. It's okay. So Cyborg Yeah, so Cyborgs suffered an injury and in the original continuity, his super smart dad builds him cybernetic implants that he actually has to go and get changed out because he's still growing because he's quite young when he has this injury. Um. Later on he's fused with a mother box. They effectively do the same thing, so he has a form of technopathy.

He has um a sonic cannon. Sometimes he's a boom tube, and he has heightened scanner and like retinal senses because he's got nice cyborg starfire alien princess um mostly flight, invulnerability to things like an atmosphere because she can fly in space and breathe star bolts that she shoots from her hands, and then the grossest of all powers, she can learn your language and all of your skills by either making out or having intercourse with you. And I

think that's ikey oh. And she's descended from cats. Her her race of people, the Tambarinians, they're descended from cats, the way that humans are descended from apes, which is supposed to be why she's so sexual and why we draw her in. Someone at d C wants to bang a cat because between that and catwoman, and there's right, yeah, the familiar Well I remember way back. You probably can't find it. You probably can't. I don't want to say you can't, because people are gonna look forward and find it.

But I used to have my own blog called that Black Nerd because I would not let Andre have the Black Nerds. I got to be that black Nerd and then I eventually gave up when people were tagging me uh no. It was a word press and it was that Black nerd dot com and like I even was able to get like press access to Comic Con. I did it in an interview with the creator of Toky Doki for this Marvel Co lab. It was real cool, but it was just a little bit I just didn't have.

I'm a type B person and running a blog, you need to be type A to really be on top of her. So I eventually noped out. But there was during the New fifty two there were a lot of articles I wrote defending a lot of the things people hated. There was a lot of good that. Well, there was that big catwoman hate that came out because because of literally exactly what we're talking about, and my girlfriend at the time really loved it and really so I was like,

here's the female perspective of why it's dope. And I had to write the whole article and uh I and I had a big thing, and I still stand by this. People got math that Amanda Wadler got like sexy and my uh, and I actually defended that until this day. I still believe it was a good point, is uh, because it's like black women aren't allowed to be sexy

in things like like Amanda Waller. Like everyone's like, oh, it's good because she's a big Woman's like, you know, there's always a big black woman in a thing that's literally aggressively desexualized in her character design exactly. And I was like, it it goes back to Mammy. They they had a Mammy on a on in the comics, so when they made her sexy, that was one time that they made someone sexy that I welcomed it because you don't get Black women don't get to see themselves portrayed

as desired in comics. So that was the one time I was like and it probably wasn't on purpose. They probably weren't thinking what I'm thinking, but that was a good move and uh, and it was It was just so funny to see all these dudes be like, oh, you know, it's body positive. It's like, you shut up, you don't care about body positive me, Like you can't argue with me about this and then defend the New Starfire in that same voice. Dude, it was I had lots of problems with Yeah, they do start in the

New got so dirty. It was like wow, because like what we're saying now is just like I don't know how they did it in the classic one, but it was. But she kind of always had the sexy hill to her. And then she's tall and she's busty and that's why she hooks up a dick and she works as a model because no one notices she's or and yeah, that was weird. They make her in They make her because originally she was a princess who was dethroned by her

sister and like sort of exiled. In the New fifty two they make her a sex slave who escapes her planet where she was Also like it gets really bad and still only communicates with sex. It's like very like I felt gross, and I'm probably one of the horneyut nerds out there and I felt gross reading it. That's too bad because in in that Redhood in the Outlaw series is drawn by Cather Rockeffort, Like, yeah, that's what I was like. And then I read and was like, no,

I'm not in it this. Yeah, but let's talk before we talk about the future. You said you did peep a little bit of the Titans live action series. Let's get some initial thoughts. I made it about halfway through. I made to the Jason Todd episode. Was that like five or six Doom Patrols. Look, I'm not I'm not going to something actually got me excited. And apparently Doom Patrol is good. You know. I was a little so I'm gonna I'm gonna finally jack in. But I haven't

started DC Universe yet until now. Yeah, I'm sure someone will give you a press count of few email. Yeah, I'm all forgetting free stuff. Yeah. I knew from the pictures it was not going to be for me, and like we talked at the top, that's fine. Yeah, I knew from some of the casting choices that it was not going to be to my taste. And then I definitely knew from the f Batman Cliff and it was gonna not be to my taste. Um, he's just that's not my Dick Grayson. And for me, a teen Dyings

team lives or dies on Robin. Uh. The thing I really like about the show. Is I like making Raven the p o V character. I actually really like that she dreams is his vision of the death of the Flying Grasons. Like I thought the framing device of that pilot episode, UM was pretty good. I'm not really into the pacing of the show. I think it's very slow. Like, if your show is called Titans, we need to see the Titans in the pilot in my opinion, not an episode four in my opinion. UM. I think Ryan Potter

is great as beast Boy. He was the voice of Hero and Big Hero six, and he was campaigning to be Tim Drake in live action for a long time. He has an amazing stunt reel where he's fighting with the bow Staff and he's like, look, I can be Tim Drake. Um. So I was really thrilled that he was involved in the team at all. I don't know why we couldn't just have had in Asian American Dick Grayson.

That's fine. I think he's really lovely. I think the Hawk and Dove story was interesting, but I didn't watch past episode five, so perhaps that lets people know I truly felt it. Yeah, what was it about episode five that like made you nopebout. I said, I was going to watch until Jason Todd was introduced and then Thomas and you're like, yeah, and I actually think they did

a decent job with Jason Todd. But then he spoiler alert doesn't stick around, and well, I get it because Dick is in the middle of what I think is going to be an inevitable evolution into Nightwing. But then who does Jason Todd becomes, So so it's Jason Todd not as red uh red Hood. He's not Red Hood right until after the Joker beats him to death of

the crowbar and then he gets thrown on last. So this all takes place before that, I guess because because my only gripe with Jason Todd would have been like if we got f Batman Robin, that kind of takes the wind out of Red Hood sales, right, Um, And I like, I like it to Grayson, who's like not as much of a Gali g but also Grayson in my opinion because it's only just my opinion, I don't

take anything away from him, and likes it. Um would never say a Batman, Well, that's the one Robin who would never like that's adjacent Todd moved and that was my gright with that. So me and you are back, even though you want to get rim, because because because I love I love that's your thing. It's like, you don't like it more for me. I don't like it

more for you. But like Dick Grayson worships Batman. So when I heard that line, I already noped out and I was like, and once again, I'm the same way. I have no qualms with anyone who's like jamming on it. I will never say not like the thing you like that. Those words will never come out of my mouth. And don't take it that way if you're like liking it and it's like, hey, should I not like this because

it no? Enjoy it? Enjoy good things. I think Pacific Rim is one of the most perfect movies ever made. It's the best movie ever. It's It's sorry it promised me a robot, I mean, a monster getting beat up by a giant robot with a freightership as a bat And what did I get when I went in a giant robot beating a monster with the freightership. You barely get your promises captain movies these days. And I was happy with it. I honestly didn't know that people didn't

like Batman and Robin. I think I've said that before on this podcast. Yeah, like yeah, And I didn't because I saw it when I was little, and I'm like, oh, this is it. Literally was like, if you're watching as a kid, it's like a comic book come to life. It's so colorful, stunt, dumb stunt. You have Uma Thurman as like may West, you know, but you have like Arnold. I was like, this is so we have um, you know, Alicia Silverstone who was coming off clueless like I was,

Oh my gosh, it was my jam. I didn't realize that that was not a good movie because a child, it should not be held against. Stick to it to this day, I feel like you hit the nail on the head. And it's why it's what I admire about it, and also why it's bad is that it's the only comic book movie that wasn't afraid to try and be a comic book movie. And then we found out that

comic books shouldn't be movies. Well that that's the tough thing too, and and people and I've done it too, like we gripe about oh this is called civil war, but it's not civil war, or that they don't pull enough from the comments. But the two mediums are so different and they operate on such different playing fields that it is apples and oranges in a lot of way. But when you are pulling from such like Batman has eighty two years of source material, like that's a long

and storied history. And whether or not I don't follow continuity, like I believe in making your own continuity, um, in making your own head canon, Like you cannot tell me that Tim Drake was never Robin, which is what rebirth the shout and tell me they're wrong. Um. But when you when you have that wealth of knowledge, it's hard when you don't get exactly what you want translated on screen, which is not what I got. The Robin suit looks

great and there's some really excellent fights in it. And if that's enough to carry you through show, you'll dig it. It's enough to carry me through Arrow. I'll push all scenes of Arrow, and it's mostly because I want Steven Emil to hit something and then take a shirt off, and the show delivers on that. Yeah, now that that is uh, such a great point. Just like, hey, sometimes you just need simple things like a giant robot hidden

the monster with a freighter boat. And sometimes I want Dick Grayson to have good posture and the live action show won't give me that. But that that is a good point. And this is kind of how even though we're closing out talking about Marvel on a DC show, that is like something because that was like a gripe of Civil Wars. Like you, there isn't enough time and money in the world to get the amount of people in the original Civil War on the silver screen because

that was so many comics. And also one thing that kind of grounded me that I thought about for someone who started in the m c U who didn't read the comics, that was crazy to them. That was to see these people who they seen work together for all these movies fight each other. That was as insane as seeing Goliath get blasted in the chest by Robot or you know good probably forgot oh yeah, hard. He came back and he had a heavy beef with Iron Man.

It was real. It was a real cool thing. I like to delete a lot of the pre Jason everything between the Simonson's and Jason Aaron Thorpe doesn't exist in my brain. All right, well, you know, I don't want to and I feel like this is gonna be another episode where people are tweeting us. It should have been longer. We only have so much time with our wonderful guests. Where can people find you? Ashually? You can find me all over the internet at Ashley v. Robinson. The v

is very important. Ashley Robinson is a w NBA player. I don't want to fight for s e. Oh she's very tall. You can find my podcast with Danny has been on and now I can guilt Iffy into being on. You don't have to guilt me. I'll do that for free. Good. I don't have your email address, have to give it to at geek history lesson dot com. We just dropped eisode on dr DO this week, assuming this is coming out week we're recording. Is it coming out next week? No,

it's coming to the next week. Our episode is gig Game of Thrones. All right, well right, yeah, we just dropped our Game of Thrones today or last week if you're listening. Heck yeah, because responsible podcast bank their episodes and we record them ahead of time. Uh yeah, And I don't know Google me and I hope you're enjoying the echob commercial that I'm in right now. Yeah, I don't know. I'm on the internet. I'm a dilettant. I'm at Miss Danny Fernandez. Um. Oh yeah. Check out our

tea public site. We love seeing y'all in merch and we've been adding more and more merch up in there, so it's public dot com slash and near deficent. Um. Please watch my show that's on verb. It's a wizarding show. It's called Live from w z r D. It's really funny. It has a lot of comedians on it and if enough people watch it, we get to have another season and um and then if you can actually come on because he was too busy when we also, it's really

really good. Yeah, it's really funny. Had fun through done. That's a fun show. And you know me, iss your boy. If you y D I F y n W I D I W E on Twitter and Instagram, if d's on Twitch. The nerd fan gang is so strong, y'all. I have had the most subs ever because y'all have

come through and give me those Twitch Prime sums. Just remember to come through every month because until Amazon Prime adds auto renew or an option to do it, you're gonna have to come back, and that means you gotta hang out with me and you are a non playing siege. But besides that, we do have a discord discord dot g g slash Salt Squad where we dropped uh. We

have people talking about episode discussions. We have a nerdy section where people are doing costplays and painting their miniatures and showing off cool things like that and just generally talking about everything we talk about here. And Fleck even goes ahead and drops all the footnotes in the stuff we talk about channel, so you don't even have to click whatever you're listening to this on and scroll and do all that yourself, because we take care of that

for you. Thank you to all my mods and all the Salt Squad, Salt fam, and all the nerd family who tweets at us. We love keeping this conversation going online. I can't thank you all enough. We've been going for one year. We didn't talk about it last episode, but we've been Yeah, we've been going for one year and I this is the best thing I started last year and I'm throwing away. I don't know, it's getting late so as always, everybody stay nerdy,