Episode 20: Transformers

There's so much Transformers. But we'll get into that. I'm if you wa waite and sitting across from me is Danny Fernandez. Yeah. I like that. You added if your nation and Ferns. Fernie was something that I jokingly started to do. If you don't follow me on Instagram, follow me on Instagram because I make the dumbest videos called Rumor Control, which if He has been in and several other people have been in, where I just I refer to everyone as fernees and then tackle a really dumb

rumor but it's stuck, it's stuck behind it. If he Transformers is something that I kind of didn't really grow up with as much and actually really enjoyed the film with Shila b Well, it's what's crazy. I really liked I was in high school and it was it was like such a big deal in high school, like everyone I think it came out in the summertime, and I right, yeah, and so I just remember in Megan Fox and it was like ha in these cars and like, yeah, well it was a banger because it came out my third

which is Weekend, and no people liked it. I was the only one who didn't like it. And we will be able to chronicle, like it's crazy because doing the research for this, I chronologically see why I hated it so much and we'll get into that. And everything made sense. Everything I found out made everything makes so much sense to me because it just truly just my wee heart

was always there. But it's funny because we touched on Transformers a little bit on our g R G I Joe episode, and well, it's cool about it is the reason because we always know that Hasbro and G I Joe they've kind of been hand in hand because they were under the same brand. But what's crazy is it's because they kind of have always been together because in nineteen seventy four, the Takara Company Limited launched the Microman in Japan and this was the mold that Hasbro license

to make g I. Joe's. There are these very articulate kind of humanoid figures, and eventually they did a spin off called diet Clone, which were like Microman, but they turned into everyday objects. Oh these are so cool. I was gonna say, I'm looking it up right now, so like to give people a visual. They do kind of look like more slender Transformers um with like these chrome

alien looking heads. As far as Microman, yeah, and actually the people who signed the Dia Clone went on to be the designers from across the anime that had the mix that turned into fighter jets and was super cool. And but yeah, it's it's crazy because it goes hand in hand. And I want to I'm gonna touch on this because a good friend of ours row Com touched on He was like, oh man, I want to be in the Transformers episode. But we mentioned molds, and molds

are very very important. I've gotten more into toys, so my just to say, wait, I thought you called them action figures, Well yeah, they are action figures. But these I'm talking about toys, Vinyl toys and they and there's a whole huge community about it. And you know how they'll sell the blanks of the toys. Some you have

to be in to paint them. Like no regular Joe off the street can really paint the toys and sell them because then you'll then the creator of the blank will be like, whoa, you're painting over Like I made it blank on purpose. And this is all stuff that we're going to get into Vinyl way and all that. That's when we're bringing you on Rocom, you and Kuang,

because that's what they do. Rocom just launched a toy which he just premiered, the one that I got, the one off because I support the Kickstar, support your friends Kickstars. But back to the Diacloge. Hasbro bought the molds from Takara and then from there they were able to create g I Joe. And with the hit, they went and grab the diaclones to make the Transformers. And what was cool was just like g I Joe, they wanted to hire people to make the background stories of these toys.

And in around that time, Jim Shooter, who was Marvel's ninth editor in chief, and that's a whole lot of drama which I was reading then I was like, oh my gosh, we're gonna have to do an episode on this. He was a controversial editor in chief because he was such a hard ass. That's all. That's the only way I know how to say it. He was a hard ass and he had like very strict rules, and creators felt like he was he was kind of ramp in

their style. But he wasn't around when they was okay, because remember our Image Comics episode when all those artists pieced out. Was he after that? He was gone by then, but I'm sure so she probably contributed to that feeling there because he after that went on to make Valiant Comics and then uh And so it was between Jim Shooter and Dennis O'Neill who wrote Spider Man and Doctor Strange, and they're hired by Hasbro to create like the backstories

for all the Transformers. As a matter of fact, Dennis O'Neill is the one who made the name Optimus Prime. That was him, but the rest were by Bob Boudinski, who came on board and basically created most of the Transformers characters and went on to write the comics for Marvel, which was crazy because the first run of Transformers uh comics were Marvel Cannon like they went to the strange lands. Nick Fury got involved. That was wild. Does that mean

that they could show up again? I hope? So you know, now that everything's all coming together, we got like our X Men, Fox and Disney merged like you know, transformed Transformers in there the Shark when it's like um because you know, like I always say that poster, that Marvel poster could not get more packed. They didn't even have my man Hawkeye on there because they were like, it's which is too much? We can only have the top ted. Yeah, no it was. It was great and it was wild,

and I love that. That is a piece that technically the Transformers are Marvel Cannons. Wait before we move on those, So did the Transformers you're saying, we're essentially just like G I J and teenage Mutant NA Turtles. They brought these guys on so that they could create stories, so they would sell the toys. Yeah, exactly, just to drive home which you saying, Yes, this is another thing that people love that was only created to sell toys, which

but it's cool. What's cool about Transformers is as it grows, there is a nice cannon that builds around it. But in the end, I think that is important to understand that these things that people have ownership and attack other people are are these stories that were created. I mean it's turned in our exactly, So put put your laser gats down and stop attacking people. Just trying to make this thing that was once created just to sell toys

good for another generation. I feel like this is something we're gonna touch on a lot, because every day it feels like there's another story that's about that. But we're gonna jump to the TV series because the TV series is also cool. Everything is so cool. We'll get to this. But I came in during Beast Wars and I was a huge Transformers boy. You'll and we'll get to this. And that's why I didn't like the first movie. This reignite this. Doing the research for this reignited my all

spark and I am now about Transformers again. I am so back on board. And that's why I like this podcast. Is the fun thing about revisiting the things that we used to really be into a maybe not so much in finding new things like I've been. I've still been watching all of Twilight Zone from the first. Yeah, it's been fun just dumping into all these different fun things. Okay, I'm gonna go and watch Trent because I think the nice thing about you and I is we complement each other.

So like whereas Twilight Zone, I'm like, this is my bread and butter. I could talk about this all day and then you like went and started watching it, and so now this is your bread and butter. Like you know way more about Transformers than I do, and now I can go home and start watching it. Yeah, you can skip this, you can. You can really jump all the way to the I d w com What about you don't want me to watch wars Wars. You can get in there, but watch like one or two episodes.

I'm sure it doesn't hold up, is okay? Okay, okay. So in September sevente the first episode of Transformers the TV series air and it's produced by Sunbo and Marvel Productions. I wanted to take a second to look at the three top credited writers on IMDb because and by top credit, they just have the most episodes under the belt, because it's funny when we visit these properties, like when we did the Nickelodeon and we found that Neil Brennan was all that. These guys ended up doing a lot of

things we does. So David Wise, who wrote fifteen episodes, Uh, he went on to write for Batman, the animated series, Wildcats and the Mighty Ducks animated series, which was so dope. I feel like it didn't get its Just do they gave out the pucks at McDonald's. I wanted. Here's the thing, my parents never let me get into roller hockey because you know, uh, there's no roller hockey leagues Incompton. Who cares. We should have found it. We should have drove to

the Orange County to get Who wouldn't know. I could have been the new Wayne Gretzky or or whoever that translates the same but hockey, but you know, kind of uh. And then the next up is Donald F. Glutt, who he wrote twelve episodes, and he went on to write Duck Tails and X Men, and then Booth, who was the third but in my heart, he knocked it out the park. He went on. Doug Booth went on to write Mighty Max which oh man, I got another angry

at my parents store for that. So when I went to remember Mighty Max, you might I'll Mighty Max was the boy branded toy for Polly Pockets, so little girls and the little boys got Mighty Max. And so I had a Mighty Max. Uh. And I brought it to my dad at Toys and resumes, like, okay, we will get this for you, and he uh and he we went to the the cash register. He got all the things he got and then I went through the bag because I was excited to play with and I couldn't

find it. And we're walking down. I was like, Dad, Daddy, she forgot. She forgot to put in the Mighty Max. He was like, oh, it's okay, and it's like so he did the Yeah, he did the old parents switchero where he took it to the register and this is why I have trust issues. But yeah, so Mighty Max and then my faith. I think I might have touched on this on t m NT. But street Sharks baby, he wrote on street Sharks don't at me? Do you feel like sharks is why you are into such like

the weightlifting buff? Oh yeah, life, Oh I definitely buff like everything. It's funny because I find like Street Sharks, rocket Power and all this stuff is made for California little boys, which I was so I was all about like, oh they roller blade, don't skateboard. Oh they like burger. Meanwhile, me, I'm very like sexually confused because it's like, why does the Shark have pets? Like the sharks should not have

a twelve pack. Danny is very confused. Big shout out to Street Sharks because they did have representation because they brought in the black character and he was an orca, which is the blackest fish. As a matter of fact, they named a movie black Fish about orcas, and I was like, I get it, and I'm here for it. Have you ever seen Street Shark, cause play like I need to see that. I'm gonna it. Oh my gosh, if you find it, keep it away from let's do it. I want to do. Oh there is Okay, I'm gonna

tweet out this photo once this episode drops. But then he also did the Spider Man animated series, which was Oh no, I'm sorry, look at this. That's comfortable. It is way too sexy. Okay, it should be. It is a very sexy ass Shark and oh his navel too. Okay, let's move on. And then he also did the nine G. I. Joe reboot. But basically, in the TV series, the auto Bots are looking for new energy sources and they end

up crash landing as the Decepticons attacked. And then uh, basically, Marvel interpreted the Autobots as destroying a rogue asteroid approaching Cybertron and shock Wave loyal to the Megatron and the TV series and keeping Cybertron in a stalemate during his absence, but in the comic books, he attempts to take command of the Decepticons. The TV series would also differ widely. Basically, yeah, the TV series was a hit, I mean came out.

It dropped in September four, and then by August two years later, in Transforms, the movie hits theater and it's written by Ron Friedman, directed by Nielsen Shin. And yeah, this one was wild because we talked about this in G. I. Joe. Because this is the reason that they don't kill Duke, because Optimist Primes gets bodied in this within like the first act. It's not like at the end he's like, oh, it's cool they body him. In the movie just moves on without him. But wait, didn't it not do so well?

Because wasn't that and didn't we say that like that affected GI their g I Joe property in the movie? Yeah, I believe so yeah, let me, I'll get the exam. Dan our producer is saying, yes, yeah, he had to listen to our episode multiple times, and editors all our episodes multiple time. Can I just say before we move on that I created a chronic illness group. I don't know if everyone knows about me, but I have an autoimmune disorder, and so we did a walk to raise

money and we called ourselves the Autoimmune Bots. Oh my gosh, that is hilariouson I love it, Little known Fernie back. Yeah, and just to confirm what you said earlier, you're right. The budget was six million and it made five point eight million. It didn't even make its money back. So yeah, it was a huge flop. It made kids very sad, and uh, I think that's why it pieced out for a bit. But the soundtrack was banging. Okay, we got my man uh stand Bush coming with You got the touch,

you got the power. Once you hear it, you'll never stop hearing it. And Also they threw weird al Yankovitz dare to be Stupid on it, which which I'm like, all right, I'm down for any soundtrack. So at least

we got that. But this period that we're talking about right now has been coined by fans and creators alike as Generation one of the Transformers and Generation two begins from til about and it started off the the toys during generation to start off as pretty much a reissue of the Generation one toys but just with new color schemes. But then September happens and Beast Wars premiers. Now little

known fact this is the Transformers. I knew this was my first experience with Transformers were the beast Wars, so so I actually started with Beast Wars and had to like learn about the Transformers later and figure out what they had to do. But the series featured uh, they didn't have Auto Autobots and Decepticons. They had the Maximals

and Predacons. Yeah, descendants of the Autobots and Decepticons. And this is this is where the funniness of a story created to sell toys versus like you know, comic book creators and future creators making legitimate stories and having to retcon because it was apparently it was set in the future of the original Transformers continuity, but then eventually it was revered yield that they had traveled back in time before the series began and we're actually on prehistoric Earth

and that's why they turned in the dinosaurs. I feel like that does make sense because the same way Transformers came to Earth and picked cars to turn into, the Beast Wars did the same with animals, and they were all prehistoric. So for it to be set in the future would have been weird, or it could have been that what was it the time Traveler when the future goes so far in the future and then it turns prehistoric again. That has stuck with me for my whole life.

So do you remember what you watched it on? Like? That was Fox? Fox Kids? Yeah, and Fox Kids kind of had the lock on the Transformers brand for a bit because in September eight of two thousand one, the Transformers Robots and Disguise launches, which was basically a Transformers anime. So this after Beast Wars, Transformers has been anime and I think that has been slept on fact by mostly me because from so This was a series that was produced in Japan and came out and was dubbed out here.

It started in two thousand one and it ran for thirty nine episodes on Fox Kids and outside of the Page. Because all during this time, you know, the Transformers comics was kind of just stagnant. After kind of living with Marvel.

In December two thousand one, dream Wave Productions ended up acquiring the Transformers licensing and then they created their own universe, adapting and borrowed a lot of things and also added some stuff, like they had like a whole bit of all Transformers not believing in the existence of Primus, which was actually on a Transformers Generation one number five original

sin which was released in May two thousand four. And uh, the corruption in Cybertronian government that was first led by Megatron to begin the roar was dropped in Transformers Generation one number ten, two thousand four. Uh, the Root of All Evil. So if you didn't think this podcast was nearly enough, now we're quoting actual. This is so weird to me because, like I said, I remember it vaguely, but I didn't really grow up with it too much.

And I'm while you were talking, I was looking up, like what else was on Fox Kids at that time? And it was all things that I watched. It was Batman animated series, Bobby's World, which I was addicted to in the Cat, goose Bumps, which I read and watched um and owned some of the VHS tapes Mighty morphin Power Rangers, the tick like where where on Earth is Carmen San Diego? Um? And uh I didn't know that

was different than where um? Anyways, uh so I am I'm confused of during that hour that it that it aired. My parents like turned off the TV. They're like, go outside, go outside. Well, it also had that like weird CG animation. You probably were like the animated beast Wars was the was CG animated? And I looked at some episodes recently and it that CJ doesn't Oh I see what you mean? Oh yeah no, I definitely turned this out. It looked okay, yeah,

definitely this And I did watch reboot. I loved Reboots, but see what you mean? Okay, the animation, wow do people really enjoy? Yeah? Also, I remember I had the Beast Wars toys that would combine into one big Transformers and I remember how just kind of like gross in macab it would look because it was like this machine animal like meshed together to make this mega machine animal.

And I think he had like a rhino. It was okay. Actually, now that I'm looking at some of the characters, I remember, yeah, this, but it was like a flash in the pan. Really, but this was the start of, like I feel like, the basis of, for lack of a better way of describing it, and in risk of infuriating some of the O G fans, the good A Transformer arcs because dream Waves started off and then we had a new show. But we'll talk about all that after the break and

welcome back everyone, all right, just up top. So Danny had something important to run off and do, so I went to the Dan archives and got another Dan, Dan Goodman, who you may not have heard yet. I mean, I think you might have said a thing or two my voice and you try to keep it very very edited out, you know. But he is the editor and producer of They're Difficent, and he's popping in for a bit. If it was a pleasure to be here, Thank you for

having me, Thank you for doing it. You know, uh, you know, it's it's good to have someone who can step up when I am late yet again pushing into people's other schedules, and uh, hey it is It is no problem at all. I happened to love Transformers, so it's always happy to be in the rule. Yeah. Yeah, you are already, you know, piping in with a few hot takes. Yeah. Uh, do you want to give people a quick rundown of who you are and what you do outside of what I just said? Sure? Hello, everybody.

My name is Dan Dan Goodman. I'm the producer and editor of Nerdificence. I also edited a lot of the shows on the How Stuff Works Network, so you probably heard my handywork on some of the other shows. I'm a longtime nerd. My specialties are definitely in the video game department. Um. You may call me Mr Steel your aerial. If you catch me on the Rocket League fields, I

will take you down. Um. But than other that, I am proud to be part of the network, proud to be part of the show, and happy to add my own voice on nerdy stuff whenever it is needed. Oh nice, Well, we when we left off, we just touched on the Robots and Disguise franchise, which was the anime bad classic. Yeah, that was in two thousand one, and dream Way pick it up in two thousand one as well. You know,

real quick, embarrassing story. Just the phrase the first time I heard and this is this is this attributes to my classic mishearing of lyrics throughout my entire life. But when I heard robots in disguise for the first time, I thought they were I thought it was robots in the skies, like flying robots. I was like, yeah, some of them are playing with robots and disguise. You know what I mean, robots in disguise. That's pretty word word. I want to see that transform in disguise. Do you

remember do you remember that game Crossfire? Oh? Yeah, this cross Fire. Yeah. Then the song goes You'll get caught up in the Crossfire. Yeah. I thought it was you'll get caught up in love because you love the game so much, you get caught up in love Crossfire anyway, miss hearing lyrics my specialty. Yeah, that's that's fun when you find out that you've been hearing it wrong. Oh yeah, it's a class fun embarrassing, it's a it's a good

healthy helping of the two. Yes. Oh man, so you got the dream Wave up in Canada, their Canadian com publisher, making these dope Transformers comics. But then in August two Transformers are Mata heirs on Cartoon Networks to Nami. It was developed in Japan, but it launched in US first. So here's the crazy thing. And once again, because I remember watching our Mata and thinking that, oh, it does

feel like an anime. But when I was watching it at the time, you know, we this is the time too, when you know anime has officially blown up in the US and there is you know a lot of American cartoons are taking that style, and so like this was an anime but I didn't even realize it because it

was dubbed. But I mean, the style was there. But it goes back to that, you know argument we keep talking about, like what makes quote unquote anime a quote unquote anime because for all intensive purposes, this what we traditionally assumes an anime is what it is produced for, you know, to produce using a shared property that exists in America. I feel like I'm gonna go back and

watch it and feel like an idiot. I feel like it's going to be very obvious that it's anime, but it actually aired in the US before Japan, and that was led to a lot of goofiness because they rushed the production schedule because they had to dub it because they wanted it to air in the US. So this, oh yeah, mad silly dubs. You had sure Shock repeatedly being called Grinder, hot Shot being called hot Rod, Optimist,

Mini con Partners, spark Plug being called Leader one. That just feels like the dubbing agent just forgot to do that one part. He was looking at his whole list and he's like, all right, got hot hot Shot whatever, close enough, and then we'll stick with Leader one. But yeah, that's exactly what it seems like. I'm like, yeah, Leader one,

Leader to But yeah. So but the about this series in itself, it actually started a new continuity, so we're no longer talking about Crowbots and Disguise and Robots and Disguise wasn't talking about the Generation one at all, So we we created this new continuity. But it doesn't stop at this series. The series is actually finally one that

gets a sequel. In the series, the war rages on between Auto Bots in Deocepticons, as in with all Transformer stories, as you do, yeah, and they're seeking power over a race of smaller power enhancing transformers called mini Cons, seeking to flee the conflict that surrounds them. The mini Cons escapes Iybertron with the aid of autobots, but an attack by the Decepticons crippled the ship as it flees through

a space bridge. The ship materializes in the Solar System and impacts with the Moon on Earth, breaking it into or breaking into. One portion of the ship stays embedded on the Moon, while the other plummets to the planet below and the Mini Cons all locked in the pentagonal stasis panels are scattered across the globe. This seems like a very common plot device at this time of like the thing we need to get has been scattered everywhere and we have to find That was the Jackie Chan Adventures.

That was what else, you know, Yeah, we have to go. It's it's like the what ended up being the blueprint of design of MMO Quest. You have to go go talk to Mr mckinfley, and then after that you're gonna talk to you. So that is basically the story of this show. We have these Mini Cons and that goes until about January two thousand four, when our modest sequel,

Transformers Inner John premiers. In the series, the Transformers primary gimmicks are autoboxibility to combine with partners of the same size, accept constability to use powered up form ms, and the addition of Inner John weapons and the stars that can be placed in any Transformers and Mini Cons from the previous line are still present, but all many con pegs are dead and they do not activate a function on the toy, uh so making those toys obsolete. So we're

getting timed obsolescence even in toys. At this point, he thought it was only Apple, but no, no, Transformers has

been doing it for years. Yeah. So then ten years after the war for Mini Cons and the apparent destruction of Unicron and the mysterious Alpha Que which stands for Quintessen, operating out of the husk of the planet Eater's body, releases energy eating terra Cons to attack the autobot Cybertron cities in the Solar System and gathering Inner John for Alpha Qu's plan, and it just goes on and on

and on like that. I like it. I think that that you know, what Transformers did so well was really try and build out each one of their universe is to not simply say, yep, there's robots here, let's do it. It's really let's give let's give this a full story, even if it changes, even if it adjusts. It's deep and I know it's kind of based on the idea of how many more toys make, but doing so creates so much more depth and potential for lore and fan

fiction and stuff like that. I think it's ultimately a positive move. Oh yeah, no, it was super great. And what was cool and when we will eventually get to the Michael Bay movies is I actually really enjoyed the design of the transformers during Like they were so cool. They're like chunky strong. They were basically dope Mex transforming Mex. And I was all in on it. I wasn't following it religiously. This is two thousand for them in high school.

Um deep into room escape at this point. Uh you know, farming finessing, Yeah, exactly, Yeah. I finessed the members past for my dad. Somehow I convinced him I'd still to this day, I don't know how I convinced him to give me five dollars a month for this member's Uh so I wasn't really following it, but I did keep up with art around it. At this time, I also was a part of a art forum called poly Carbon BBS.

So it was started by this guy called Pat Shuttlesworth, who at the time was this artist who you know, worked in the worked in He was a professional artist, but he created all these tutorials online and now he's actually an art director and a concept artist for the game industry, and he's actually worked for some pretty dope games at this point. Yeah. I checked in on him a few days ago and he he was let's see, he did the nine seven three to Blade Runner VR experience.

He was working on he was working on a Quantum break. That was the thing I saw, Quantum Break. So yeah, he's he's definitely still thriving. But what was dope is he made all these to corials on the site Polycarbon that kind of showed you how to draw, and then on the boards you can kind of communicate with other artists and allowed them to kind of critique your work

so you can get better. It was really cool. One it's it was a system that is now obsolete because of sites like you know, d a tumbler and so on and so forth. But at the time it was revolutionary and they had these things, and that's this is why I totally signed up. They had fight clubs, and what they would do is you and a whole bunch of artists would team up, create a premise of your story and create characters, and you would draw comics of

them fighting, and you would make these comments. And this was when I was really into artist, just trying to be an artist, and I was scanning these pieces up and it really did make me a better artist as I was making art for this thing, because you're practicing and someone might say this one and you were basically just r ping and drawing at the same time. It

was that that sounds amazing. It's you know, I still go to the dead forms every now and then to see if anyone's still kicking around, and every now and then there's still that one, like anyone's still here that uh yeah, I still feel about the new Grounds bulletin board system. I used to troll those way too much. Man, back when the old flash animation days. I'd be like, how is this one? Oh that's terrible, Thank you, I appreciate you looking at it. Yeah, I had a short

stint in new Grounds when I got uh, what was it? Yeah, but I think it was just called flash animator or something like that. It was. I have no idea. I can't remember, but we spent a lot of time looking for we both cannot remember. If you remember two thousand Escar Early esque Flashmaker programs, please tweet the man that's the one I was using. I remember, I trash. I made a trailer for this flash animated fight Club sequel I was gonna make, and it was very bad, I think,

like literally, like I tried to. I tried to like work around the fact that I was bad at doing the art for it, and like there was like it was a black screen, then a small red dot and then smoke comes up, and then like it was the text of like uh and and something that he would say like something like that, and then it was like this whole like blocky like people fighting, And I remember the only comment and I wish I could go back and find it because you'll see, you'll see why I

want to go back and shove it in this person's face. It wasn't going anywhere. No, they were like if you read the book, you would understand that there can't be a sequel to Fight Club. There's nowhere to be a sequel. If you know anything. There is a sequel to Fight Club that Chuck Plane you wrote himself. Yeah, and it was, but they made it a graphic novel and I love that, and I want to be like I want to be like,

remember me from almost a decade ago. You gotta pull that back up, dig in, take that screenshot and just find him, go to his house and stick. I know that. That's the thing is all my like old school accounts are gone, like my zanga like they Yeah, I don't need to see my old space. I don't want to get James gunned down. I don't want to see what my old Top eight was. Yeah. Oh man, I remember I put Tila Tequila in on Top eight. It would make her put her there, you go, yeah, no, definitely

didn't hindsight. Yeah. So after Inner John premieres, uh, there is a sequel. But before the sequel, in January two five, dream Wave Production went bankrupt. But then in May of that same year, I DW picks up the license of Transformers and continues to drop dope comics until this day. That's that's what I was telling Danny to jump to if you want to get into Transformers, if you love Transformers and you're like, it might not hold up, or I mean, you can always go back and watch Transformers

the movie. That's just one of those nostalgia things that if you don't have a good crested in the time, you'll love it. Um maybe not so much to anyone else, but the I. D W comics are so solid and they're still going on. As a matter of fact, they plan on relaunching next year, so you can kind of get this first run. It's it's exciting. I also like to think that, you know, comic books in general have

such a better shelf life than TV. Sometimes animation can really look stilted and old, and but you know, comics still have this preservation of the time. It's almost kind of like I make this comparison with hip hop and electronic music. Old electronic music sounds bad, but classic hip hop is always going to be classic hip hop because you connect with it in a different way. Mind, You have a time more than you're just being like, oh yeah, this is means those two and I was a kid

or something like that. Like, comic books are a very similar way. Each time you go back to them, you have that recurring feeling like I remember exactly where I was when I read this for the first time, And so it doesn't have as much of that technological barrier as going back and watching an old cartoon does in my personal opinion. Yeah, no, I think that's super right on. So then while this is all happening, I d w S building the brand. It's apt or nineteen two thousand five,

Transformers Inner John launches. Now this is also still part of the same kind of universe, except in Japan. In Japan it's aired as a separate rebooted Transformers series, but in North America, the English deb was presented as a sequel to the previous two series, Transformers Armana and Inner John, and scenes were added that linked elements of the Armada and Inner John stories to the show and using additional

dialogue and reused animation to link the series together. And this is very important because this was is for all intents and purposes, my Transformers. Even though I wasn't super keeping up with the show like it was on because it was popping on like to Nami and stuff like I would, I would check it out but it wasn't something I was religiously keeping up with. But I was like, yeah, this is the Transformers, this is this is good. I

like it. It's great, super good. And and then in July three of two thousand seven, Michael Bay premiered the Transformers movie. But we'll get into that after this prank, and we're back to talk about Transformers, but more specifically the Michael Bay Transformers. Now, I will say a k a lens flare of the movie. I will say there are people who thoroughly enjoy this. Danny herself said she enjoyed this. I don't knock anyone who enjoyed this, but I'm so glad it shook out the way it did.

One I found out the reason I loved the Armada trilogy, all of those was because it was anime. I was a weep. I loved it. I love the design of it. Now this is what we're coming off of. So I hear there's a Transformers movie being made. That's what I had in my head. I was super duper excited. It had always been an animated series, so it kind of builds the expectation when I saw this realistic version of Transformers that Michael Bay was trying to present. I was

not having it. Also, this is two thousand seven. If this is a nineteen year old, we be freshman in college, freshman and community college, super opinionated, super nerdy, deep in your thoughts, deep in my thoughts, child of the Internet, point still on four chance, oh heavy sifting through b all the racism for the memes. Memes weren't even mainstream yet. It started off as making fun of myself to sounding like a super weird hipster Internet. Hey, we're all going

to look back on these times. We're gonna be like, what was it like? Let me tell you what? Boy Um. But yeah, so I took it as a personal slight like every in every way that those like Star Wars fan boys have been taking offense to to the new Star Wars, like this was me for Transformers. And remember I wasn't even that into Like, I wasn't following this religiously. This wasn't my jam. I DW comics were out, I wasn't even reading those. I just knew it as something

that I grew up with. It was a thing I liked, and now this person is going to try and make it and I think That's why, in a weird way, I understand exactly how wrong a lot of these like Star Wars fanboys are where it's like, you know, but I was mad. I still to this day, I haven't seen the Transformers movie at all. At all. I still to this day I told myself, I'm not going to

see it. I'm not going to see and then it just got to the point where I just didn't care to see, you know, And I've only saw and I only saw the only Transformers movie I saw was I forgot what movie I was watching. But my sister wanted to go see this Transformers sequel, which came out in January nine. We'll go deeper into sequels, but then we're talking about that was prob. Oh yeah, this is still

Shylo buff and he uh. And my sister was watching it and my movie got done, So I went to pop in two guess watch the tail end of this movie to wait for my sister, being a good brother, thinking Okay, I've hated Transformers, It's probably not as bad as I'm making out it out to be. I walk in. The first thing I see are the two black robots. Everyone knows who I'm talking about. When I say the two Black Robots, because they're the two Black Robots. They

are the jar Jar Binks of the Transporter series. And I was like, I made the right decision. He's not investing in this, in this, in this franchise. That had to be one of the worst decisions that they made for the man. Oh my gosh. That I just remember being like, wow, this is exactly as bad as I remember it. But a lot of times, you know, I often catch myself being like, how do these keep getting made? How do these keep getting made? But they keep getting

made because they are widely successful. I mean the the franchise as a whole. As a whole, the budget has been nine hundred and seventy two million, which sounds like a lot, but the budget as a whole has also made four point thirty eight billion dollars billion, not millions, billion dollars. So we got the first Transformers, which you had a budget of one hundred and fifty million, and

they made seven hundred nine point seven million. Then we had the sequel, which had the budget of two hundred million, only to make eight hundred and sixty three point three million. The sequel made almost as much as the whole series has cost I almost think that, you know, these movies kind of defined a particular genre film where it was like robot action. Oh yeah, here's the thing. I'm all about it because I'm a huge Pacific rim fan boy. I was just about to bring that up. Love robots

fighting monsters for intensive, like everything, I'm with it. I

Transformers was made for me. I'm a guy who would have watched it if I wasn't you know that edge Lord in two thousand seven, I'd be on this podcast talked about its praises because let me tell you, if you've ever been in Universal Studios, they have a Transformers ride, which I initially avoided, of course, because even though this is a new positive everything, love everything, if he keep down inside that edge Lord is still tugging on some strings,

don't do it. You don't believe in this. But when I went on that ride, I sat in. I believed in Transformers, the Michael Bay series. When I was rolling through that four D experience, watching Bumblebeet and Megatron fight in front of my call, I felt the heat of the flames, felt the sparks, the crunch, the turns, high adrenaline. I believe it, and every time I go to Universal Studios, I get on that right because it's fun. It's amazing,

it's fun. It's too fun. It's too fun. I needed to take a seat after the first one because my my heart was racing, pumping. I feel that, and it's I can't deny I like robots fighting, and I should like the series. I may go back and watch the original one. Who knows, maybe maybe that's how I'll close the chapter on that part of my life is watching Transformers.

I think that there's definitely a certain value to the movie, specifically in what you mentioned, in what you experienced in the ride, in putting all of that stuff in an actually physical space. I think, aside from issues with the movie, like Shyla buff in general being kind of a goofball, maybe making Fox's performance where you know, not the best. Maybe some of the storylines about the robots themselves were kind of like, is this really where we're going with

these guys right now? Also making the robots bleed, there's all these little like aesthetic choices where it was like, I get that he's in pain. You don't have to create big robot blood for me to get that bubble he's not feeling it right now, but I think for that entertainment purpose they succeed. Well, that's what's funny is I feel like right now superheroes are filling that void. And but there was a time where a movie didn't have to be the perfect story, didn't have to have

agree with that. It just needed to have the heart and the energy, the adrenaline. It was like that. That was what a blockbuster movie was. It wasn't necessarily the best movie, but you had fun while watching it. An exciting thing happened. And now, and I don't think it's necessarily a good or bad thing. We're having that blockbuster experience kind of supplemented with good stories based on these superhero lores that have existed and been refined for decades.

At this point that this that might be a thing that's gone. I felt like there was a when the first specific Rim came out. Everyone there were people who hated it, but for the most part, a lot of people were like, nah, it was robots fighting monsters. That's what we wanted. Was great. And then between that, a whole bunch of Marvel movies came out doing exactly what I just talked about. Then we do the second Pacific Rim and everyone's like, the story could be better, And

that's like a valid critique. Like by valid critique, I mean a critique that I understood and wasn't really able to argue against. Whereas when people hit me without a critique with Pacific Rim, my response was, what did you expect? It was to me the movie promised gave me everything that it promised, and it promised robots fighting monsters, and you know what, I got a boat being used as a bat. I got a surprise sword. Yes, you surprise sword. Baby,

let's go now. I gotta say when I walked out of Pacific Room for the first time, truthfully, that was my only complaint in the whole movie that I was like, time out, You're gonna save the sword for just the last fight. Like I get it. I it's a's a plot device. Maybe they just installed it and it was a new Yeager kind of thing, but like you could have been sliced people up with that sword from day one.

That every anime we've seen ever has prepared us for that moment, because that could be the thing that about every anime like Goku, why didn't you try and go super instinct when you were fighting like vegeta or something you had to you couldn't use the spirit bobbab like three other fings exactly exactly now, I'm I'm definitely I'm

I'm with you in that department. Um, But you know, I think you're very right and that the Marvel movies kind of took the place of the Spectacle movie and that we definitely have this kind of expectation of these movies. And it's interesting to me how certain movies kind of skirt that. I know we're not talking about movies like Fast and Furious right now, but I think they do something very well and that they almost throw it in

your face how unrealistic that is. They're constantly doing stuff where it's like, hey, look, we're very purposefully avoiding reality right now, and it does it to an extent that it almost makes it more enjoyable, because it's like, this movie is extra silly. I unronically loved the Fast and Furious franchise with you and it, and as the series evolved, I evolved with it. Originally, this this same wee be iffy that we were talking about in these early odds

was also because, of course I was a weep. Of course I liked the initial D, so of course I wanted I was really in it. I was in there. There was these model cars called Modifiers. I don't know if you remember them. They were made by the same company that made tech Deck, and what it was it was it would be as a stock car and then it would give you aftermarket parts where you can who in the car. You can add a body kit, you can add um a cold air intake. And I was

deep into that. I was so deep into that. I was in the Modifiers. Back to forums. I was in the forums, and I had a real popular thing, and I wish I could. I don't have any record of it, and it's the one thing I regret. I created a magazine specifically for this form called mod mag that was like an import tuner for these model cars, and then I interviewed people on the on the forum boards. Yeah,

and it was so cool. I just wish I could go back and see and I could like it's stuff like that, that's like, oh, that's why I'm a TV writer now, but like it's just so so cool. But like taking that person trying to pull in that tangent abile the initial Fast and Furious, which was about you know, racing tuner cars. I'm in and then as I grow and become a mega nerd and like robots fighting and big action in movies, and it turns into like this huge heist movie. I mean once the Rock got involved

that that whole series turned around. Like I know Tyres was beef and with the Rock, but it's like, no, you gotta I'm sorry, you all got to take an ail on that. The Rock did save this series and make it something so amazing. It really kind of gave the series a new life, and it gave it new direction, and it gave it a voice, like we know what it's what it is, and I can't wait for the spinoff and what they do next. Speaking of movies, the

third one Transformers Dark of the Move. So this is where Transformers gets kind of confusing, because I remember when Dark of the Moon came out and to me, I thought it kind of came and went. I thought no

one cared about it. I mean, this is where things get kind of funny and where we start to answer that question like why do they keep making Transformers in this but like because it's unstoppable, Because when Rotten Tomatoes has thirty five percent so UM two hundred forty six surveyed critics gave a positive review, the average rating being

four point nine out of ten. The site's critical consensus reads, it's special effects and three D shots are undeniably impressive, but they aren't enough to fill up a loud, bloating run, bloated running time, or mask it's thin in different script. So I remember that, I remember the bad reviews. I remember it feeling like it came and went. What I don't remember is the fact that it costs one million to make but made one point one hundred and twenty

four billion dollars. I've missed. I thought you said a hundred four billion dollars. Why hasn't it broke records? Yeah? One point one to four and that's worldwide grows. Yeah, yeah, I mean, so that's the thing. And so this is June twenty nine, two thousand and eleven, and we're like, what is going on? But it's like, yeah, it's making the money. And then we get number four, Age of Extinction,

which which that one ended up bringing in. It costs uh two hundred ten million, and it brought in another one point one hundred and four billion. That's two movies in a row that has brought in a billion dollars and that is the only and this is the market mark era. And yeah, that's why they keep making it. I guess I can't argue that. I knowing that, I

can't argue it. It's like, keep making it. Now. The reception is it was the pretty much same thing, Like it had an eight Rotten Tomato score, which is based on a hundred nine seven reviews in an average rate of three point nine out of ten. But the billions don't lie, you know, you can you can cry yourself to the bank. Yeah, I mean I also think that, you know, what we find is that a lot of these numbers are kind of they come from overseas numbers.

We're obviously seeing a lot of theater participation in the States, but a lot of overseas numbers just bump everything up because I think the rest of the world kind of gets it when they're like this is Look, I'm not coming to this movie for these oscar winning you know, performances are writing or something. I'm coming here to be entertained. Yeah, I'm you know, exing out the world. I'm eating my

popcorn and I'm watching a movie. And I think that's why some of these movies succeed and so in such grandiose fashion around the world is because they are super well done spectacles that a lot of people who just want to go have a spectacle or like this is perfect, don't change. That's so true because that's the one reason that Pacific Room was successful. It flopped in the US, obviously, But you're right, because even if you can't speak English,

you can understand robots beating the crap. Most certainly can. And so I think that is great. Like if you're watching, if you don't have too much of a hold on English and you're watching, like inside Leewin Davis, that's I can't think of a worst You're not gonna be able to understand the nuances of, you know, trying to grow

up gay. Oh my gosh, yeah yeah that that that yeah, that, Oh my gosh, that's so this that last one that came and went with the Last Night, that one, like, you know, like I saw ads for it within a week of it releasing and then they disappeared, you know. Unsurprisingly has the worst Rotten Tomato review and has made

the least out of all of the Transformers movie. So yeah, this technically is the first L but that L being a two hundred and sixty million budget and a sixty four hundred million box office, So that's still a that that is still a success by any meeting. Yeah, that's

still that's still a lot of money right there. I mean, it also might explain why Michael Bay was like, you know what, let's take our foot off the series, because like that they was just starting to hit hit that plateau and then I was just starting to creep over the edge. And instead of you know, pulling a Michael Jordan and taking one more season with the Wizards, they were like, I'm gonna take the win because you end on a win. I mean, this is the worst. They're

still winning four dollars old. It's a huge win. That's why it's so funny because it's like, yeah, it's like what follion dollars, Like, yeah, but the last two made a billion, so that's so when you could bear. But at the end of the day, yeah, I feel like one of the biggest things that might have screwed this is the fact that the advertisement wasn't there. I didn't see any advertising for the last night. Like when I saw it, I was like, Oh, there's gonna be another Transformers.

Oh man and and but you know, you're right, Michael Bay did pull the foot off the gas because the Bumblebee uh spinoff slash is going to be by some Bumblebee I don't necessarily get because bumble Be just just because you've seen most of them. Yep, you've seen the first one, which is the most important from my experience, bumblebee first interaction. What's a human is Shyla buff Yeah, so but this seems like Bumblebee's first interaction with human.

They're they're re upping the story. And it's the funny thing is usually re up a story like that when you want to retell a character arc. It's like how many times have we seen Peter Parker get raised and you know, talked about at May And then the same thing with Batman. It's like the story of Batman has been told so many times because it is compelling, and Bumblebee doesn't really have a compelling birth story. He wasn't there wasn't like some you know, Megatron betrayal or anything

like that. You know, not to disrespect the other Transformers. But he's a robot, and he was introduced to us by being like, hey, that cars a robot, and that was pretty much shit. That was pretty much our backstory with him. So whenever they tried to fabricate or right as it were, is going to be a kind of like addition and kind of you know, trying to add some sort of sympathetic backstory to a character that is you know, yeah, for the entertainment. Also, I'm guessing it's

going to end with him having his memory wiped. Since we never hear about any of these, some sort of horrible thing will happen. I'm sure. Yeah, it's it's wild, and that is a good point where it's like, yeah, some stories can be told over and over, some don't necessarily have to, which is why I'm super excited that Homecoming just started. I was that was the biggest professionair Fair, huge Homecoming fan. Yeah, I loved it, And that's what

That's what I want for the next Superman, the next Batman. Like, let's just start. Everyone knows what how they got their powers, they know, let's just start it. No need to rehash the same origin story. Goodness, gracious, it's almost more fun when you know, you kind of have to figure out what's going on and you're like, oh, wait, we're in it. That is Spider Man. Oh this is oh oh. It's

kind of like um with Logan. How it starts and he's a drunk, passed out limo driver in the back of the truck and they're messing up this thing and he's like all right, fine. Then he bust out the spikes and you're like, oh, it's really oh okay, here we are. And I think if you want to add something organic and real, it's got to be like that. You have to pay, you have to you know, base it on real human emotion and struggle and stuff like that.

And I just don't I don't see Bumblebee having that kind of you know that that that strife as it were. Unfortunately quite Yeah, but that's that's the next step on the series is But you know the best part of all this is you do get that I DW series that's still going, and it's it's still there. It's like they I had so many friends gush about the Transformers I d W series that I'm probably going to pick

up a few trades. It's a bi weekly schedule. It's been going on since October two tho five and has been going till this day, and it seems like they're going to wrap up this current story and relaunch. So hearing this podcast is a nice alarm that you can because whenever someone asked me when they should get into comics or when they should do I always say start after a crossover event because usually they all the stories

kind of reboot. Um, that's the and And if I haven't said that on that pot on the pot yet, that is the best time to start any if you want to get into Marvel, if you want to get into d C, wait for a crossover event. If you want to know what a crossover event is, I think the easiest way to describe it to someone who doesn't read comics regularly is walk into the store. Look at all of the titles. Do they have a subtitle on it? Is it like Batman Darkest Night, Superman Darkest Night? Uh?

Then you'll see a comic called Darkest Night. Then that probably means that they're having a Darkest Night crossover. And you can even talk to the front desk person and what's usually good too is usually on the during the crossover events, they'll have the amount of comics that the crossover events will be. I'd say maybe even jump in during the crossover event, you know, check out what's going on. Also, that's gonna help you because they're probably gonna refer to

the crossover event through the whole thing. And the reason it's called a crossover event is because normally most comics stay in their own lane, and during a crossover event, you'll have heroes being in other comics and the events of the crossover events leaking over into other comics. Like

Fear Itself. You know happened during the what was it called the Most Dangerous Man Alive, which was when Black Panther to Challa lost his Black Panther powers and what was watching Overhel's kitchen right after the shadow Land event, and uh, Daredevil kind of took a hike to go find himself, and so you had to Challa watching over New York and doing street level crimes when Challa is like, yeah, the world stage, it's really I have them all I

can let you. It was great. The Fear Itself crossover I wasn't the happiest about because they put them up against Hate Monger, who is literally just a dude who is in a pink KKK outfit with an H on his head. It was, it was, it was, it was.

It was kind of whack. But in the end, like I kind of grown to love this series because it was showed to Challa in a new light and up against the new situations, kind of kind of you know, pressing him in the way of like, Okay, I am used to handling things on things on a grand stage. I'm used to being, you know, a high status individual, and now he's kind of a low status as working for a convenience store in uh in New York, as

a black person. It's it's very fun. It's it was a fun run and it was short, and then after that Black Panthers ceased to exist for a bit, but then then it came back and now it's going strong there because because that was the last Black Panther book if I remember correctly, before the Tennahsee Coats Run. But I think the Tennahasey Coats Run kind of just starts its own kind of. I mean, it's still within the world, but it doesn't really reference anything that happens there, so

you don't have to read it. If you want to go read the Tenahasey Coats run, which is also amazing. But what I'm trying to say, so you're trying to get into the I DW Transformers, you can hop on the train very soon they reboot it, or you can just wrap up everything that has happened since October two

thousand five in trades. Very daunting, I will say, but you but if I remember correctly from the image Commis episode, trades are the best way to fully dive into a oh yes, because it just technically a bit cheaper and it gets a lot of the like, especially when you have to go through a lot of comics, like I'm it's like four or five than one book, right, Yeah, And I was behind on That's how I got caught

up on Walking Dead. I'm behind again. But I bought the compendium, which was a hundred issues and one thick book, and I burned through that, And so I caught up a hundred issues and was able to catch up to the issue at the time, which was um which was a major character being killed off. And I was able to not to feel it just the same because I just didn't jump that burned into it. But yeah, I feel like that's all the Transformers will talk about. Transformers

is going to be around forever. I feel like, and I'm glad we got to cap off the holy Trinity of like those three main properties that were created to sell toys but now are just main stays and have their own strong lore. You have Ninja, Turtle, g I Joe, and Transformers the Toy the toys series series. Yeah, someone's gonna hit me up with this some some extra toy I mean, there's definitely some other toy stuff we need to hit on the belief, but we'll get to that.

But these, I feel like, are like the holy Trinity of toy series. Absolutely. I feel that Do you have anything you want to plug? Dan? You know? Goodness? Well, um, first I will plug for our awesome co host, Miss Danny Fernandez. You can find her on all the socials at Miss Danny Fernandez. That's M S D A and I F E R and A N D Easy, Miss

Danny Fernandez. Check around. Um. You can find me on Twitter at DJ Underscore Daniel if you want to hear my random video game hot takes or if you want to hear about me occasionally stepping back into the world of electronic music. I get all my hot takes off there. But other than that, that's that's mostly what I do. Listen to all the podcasts. Listen to the Zeit guys, Listen to Nertificent Couples therapies popping off right now. Culture

Kings is amazing, Listen to the Bechdel Cast. Listen everything wasn't a nertificent she I mean, you're already doing that, so congratulations. Uh yeah, And I'm iffew waddyway on all the platforms, Twitter, Instagram, Come check your boy out if he's on Twitch. Lots of lots of NERD fam coming through. Even even Dan has popped in on a few streams and he's hanging out on the discord. We do have a discord. I've mentioned it. I'll have to pin it

sooner or later. But if if you can't find the tweet where I mentioned the discord, hit your boy up or stopping on my stream and then I'll blast the discord out. We're having lots of nerd difficent discussions. We have fluf in. They're dropping many many many many many uh mini memes. Wish depth on me? Um who knew we done with AFT? I know I want to do so. A while ago, I was like, any of the nerd fam that comes through and smashes that sub button, I'll

shout you out. That has been true. The real the thing that has happened is I I've forgotten to write your names down, and so I don't necessarily have you know, the people who have necessarily said nerd nerd fan. So what I'm gonna do is, I'm just going to read all of my subs. I love it. Do you have them up right now? Time? Oh? Yeah, make one announcement

while I get up. So as well, if you want to read the references from today's episode, if you want to learn a little bit more about what we're talking about, we have all of links to everything that we're talking about, the footnotes, if you will. If I had miles here, we have all of our information in the footnotes of this episode, in the description of the episode itself. So when you open up iTunes or whatever you're listening on

in the show description will be the footnotes. So look there for the links and everything else if you want to check all our information and whatnot. All right, so here comes some subs. I'm just gonna read you all off and you know, I'm sure I'm gonna get some of them NERD fans. Thank you and keep this up is going. Here's just shouts Outlondel been left, Hannah beat

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streaming and showing the love through multiple platforms. So I gotta thank you so much. Quick shout out to Zack Nickieber and the mooth holding it down, Sup Producer Dame Goodman. But all good things must come in and that includes this podcast, so stay neardy,