111: Cartoon Network

again the importance of wearing a mask. A lot of people are taking these masks off and it's crazy, and I just want to say, like, I still have been testing negative. I've been really careful. Um. I know sometimes it's not always someone's fault, but a lot of people are acting. When we were protesting, there were people at brunch not even kidding. We walked by people at brunch and who and I was just with their masks off,

enjoying their eggs. Benedict, Yeah, yeah, it was. It was wild too, because, um, when I went to the last protest, I took a lift there because you know, I didn't want to drive, and something pop off, I need to go, and then I'm stuck trying to get my car. So I was like, let me just lift and then you know, I know these streets, um, but I forgot like that

all that, all of that stuff is different now. So like the lift driver showed up and I was wearing my mask, and then he was like, oh he put his mask on, Like bro okay, first of all, but I'm glad I did because we're talking or whatever. And then he just starts coughing recklessly. I'm like, glad you put your mask. You try to have it off. You're trying to have this off. Drop my ass off. Also, that means he was coughing in his car the whole time before. You got in a lot of cough particles.

That's why I had my mask on, you toll. The people don't know that. And then you got the a c on you know, cough particles everywhere. We're not talking about car cough particles right now. We're talking about cartoons more specific. We're talking about the cartoon Network Baby talking another cartoon Network Baby. I can see our guests laughing at this transition with the smooth segues. I always got the smooth talking about the coronavirus. We're talking about the

cartoon virus. Yeah, the virus that is Cartoon Network. Baby. Uh yeah, no, yeah, yeah, that's what that's what we're talking about. It's a good time. But you know, we we we couldn't have be a conversation about cartoon now. One of the one of our good friends who's as a triplog holding it down all over the Cartoon network. Someone would say he's taking over Cartoon Network. Every time

everyone would say he is Cartoon Network someone. Yeah, Mr Cartoon Network, like you know, uh, you know, like like Pitbulls, Mr three or five live, this is Mr Cartoon Network. Uh what how you doing? Jeff? Is is Jeff Trummel. Baby, thank you AUS for having me back. It's been a long time left you without some dope cartoons and step two Jeff, Mr Cartoon Network. Tramo head writer of Craig of the Creek sometimes voice actor Creek. Yeah, thank you

guys for having me. Yeah. You were just nominated to Yeah yeah, we got nominated for Outstanding Children's Animated Series at the Daytime Emmys. So that's super cool. Are they having the like how does that work? No? I think it's I'll be like this doom. I would love it if if like somebody loses and they just like end there's they just walk out and just their screen just

goes to black. Need this anymore? I want to know who my like if we get to go to the Virtual Emmys, who my like box is going to be next to? Like do I get to sit next to like Steve Harvey or somebody at the Joy Emmys or whatever. That would me and that would be a nice box to be next to. Oh my gosh, I want to see because then it'll also be showing like people's homes. I'm so nosy. I want to like see you'd be surprised. Some people are like, yeah, yeah, see you or have

wildness showing, Yeah, all that wildness and all that. Like I totally see that. Like when they do SNL from home, you're like, oh, you can definitely tell who's been on SNL how long some of them some of them bets. I'm like, oh, there's a lot of space here. Also some people just like it's so funny because you can see you have a bunch of art behind me and stuff. We all do. Actually I can see in our places.

But like the people that just have a blank wall, Yeah, that cracks me up to it's just like this massively like plane. I'm like, wow, really artistic. Yeah, don't. I don't need nothing. I don't need nothing. You see the big old light my ice cream dog right there, and that's I always try and get that in frame. We've been doing zoom calls for super Punch on TBS, another head Turner a Venture uh, and they'll, you know, I'll zoom call in. And I've just been putting different things

in the background. And I have this giant Elizabeth plush from Gettama and it was just sitting back there the whole the whole episode. I'm like, well, you know, they didn't tell me to move it, so I'm gonna put it back there. So I'm gonna see how much wild stuff I can just fit behind me without them calling it out. Um, Jeff, we normally start our episodes with what we're seeking out about. Do you have anything or artists or creators or shows or movies or books or

anything that you're kind of geeking out about right now? Okay, let's see. I've been seeking out a lot about Static Shock, one of my favorite shows. I've been rewatching it I talked about on the podcast lately. I keep messaging Matthew Cherry about it. Uh in is full. Yeah, it's just me being like, hey, can we do static? Can we do static? And he's like, I don't even own that,

are you? He and I were like talking about my pilot originally when I first sold it, and then when his oscar happened, it suddenly was like nope, his inboxes full, like doing other things with bigger people. It's cool because he's a Craig fan, which is kind of nuts. So he's messaged me about Craig, which is really cool. But um, yeah, so I'm speaking out about Static always forever, I'm speaking out about Spy Family. So mom, I'm reading. That's super

super good, highly recommend to anyone who likes manga. Uh. I don't want to spoil it, But did you say Spy Family? Yeah? I was just about to pick that one up. It's good. You should check it. Yeah, I'm not gonna spoil it, just okay, I think you'll like it. Well. On that Static shock, I have a whole I should send it to you so you can see what I

was thinking. But I had a whole treat and I sent because I met with this production company that did all of the like at the time, like d C like on you know how they have their like platform and I sent like the static treatment, but it's like and it was one thing that like I was like, you have to meet with me if you if you do it, because there's one like, uh change I made.

And I was like, I know, I know what I'm talking about because in the you know, in the show, his um his father you know, was alive and his mom passed and she was like a paramedic, and then her father was a cop. And then I wanted to flip it where his mom is alive and then the father is a cop and then play with you know, police brutality that way instead of having like this cop

on the show. That's like, you know, I'm one of the good ones, son So you know, it was just trying to trying to get dark and just so DC could be like, no, like we like all all this except this, um but yeah, that's tight um me. You know, I'm geeking out about you know, keeping keeping the theme straight. Uh, Spider Man Miles, Uh you know that that that was a super dope reveal, uh. And what a roller coaster because Sony open their mouth and said that it was

just a DLC and and insomnia. Holo holol No, no, don't let Nope, Nope, they had to try. They have to stop that train because people were getting ready to light there. They have no light of up. They have to be like old. Nope, that is not true. It is a full game. It is aful So I'm super I'm super excited also because you know, by the looks on it, it's an older Miles, and I don't think we've really got to see much older Miles, like all

the Miles of in high school. So I I that's that's the fun I am because there is like a fun in seeing teen teen Peter Parker and then adult Peter Parker. So I'm so excited to see what adult Miles is. And I pray, pray, pray they have black people on the writing team of Adult Miles. Yeah, I wanna. I'm gonna use this as a side bar for um for video game writing, because there's something that's been scratching at the back of my head since, uh since I've

played it. But um, Life is Strange to Life is Strange is really good, Uh, you know, narrative video game series, and Life is Strange too follows um a a half Mexican, half white um kid whose dad is killed by the cops and they're on the world. No, his dad is killed by a cop and his son like uh kills him and like like accidentally kills the cop trying to protect his dad, and they go on the run and

the whole game. The way life is strange works is you make a series of decisions and like you get different um you get different uh endings based on how many quote unquote good or bad decisions you make, how many aggressive or passive ones you make, and the you know, I went through it totally in with my own emotions, with my own views on racism, and in the end still like had good relationships stuff throughout, But in the end I got the quote unquote bad ending in the

sense that because I was I wasn't passive whenever there was a racist situation, Like if someone was racist, they got clapped, like like as simple as that, like it like and and and and and it wasn't even like I was just just cavalierly killing people. But if they were being racist and putting my life at risk because of it, I defended my I chose the chance to defend myself and not do that, and in the end you get the um the ending where like you go

to Mexico. You make it because your whole the whole game, you're trying that You're coming from Seattle trying to go to Mexico because you know you have family down there, and in the end, if you do it that way, you make it to Mexico. But you're like these crime brothers who like have have like are like the boss and you're like the head of of of the crime thing.

And then like the one I watched, all the endings and the good ending is that the brother has the older brother ends up you know, going to prison for that for that crime of accidentally killing the cop, coming out years later. And then the brother goes on a camping trip. He has like PTSD from being in prison and all the experiences they have, and then they then the him and his little brother go separate ways. So technically the bad ending is the only ending where the

brothers are together. But that's like the one that's the the you know, marketed quote unquote bad ending. And I was like, this is how you know it was written by white people, because the only good option is turning yourself in, like you you, it just shows you how

you view the police completely differently. For you to think, oh, that's the only way out is because the major final choice you make it and this is spoilers if you haven't played so go ahead, is you're at the boarder and there's this like social worker who's been working with you who's like, this is your last chance. You gotta stop. You choose to either ram through or you you get off the car and turn yourself in. And there and it's really cool because that it's not just two choices.

If you were aggressive and all your choices and I learned this and I'm glad it didn't pick and you chose to turn yourself in based on my aggressive choices, he would have ran through and the older brother would have died, and then it would have been an ending where he kind of is in Mexico by himself holding it down. Uh. So, like your your choices, your actions also,

you know, depend on how the outcome comes. But it still was like this is whack Like like I was like, you made so many good points about how like they were making really good points about you. I think it was such a good game for people to uh like you really can't do it, but you know, kind of give a short feeling of how racism feels and how it affects how you talk with people. And then in the end they just dropped the ball like that where it's like, but you still should turn your cop yourself

into the cops. Also, sorry for taking the whole segment to have this combo. Oh I'm not geeking out about anything. Um, I'll just like give shout out actually to my friend Amanda Diebert who she just wrote her first ever a hundred and forty page graphic novel, which is for DC superhero girls. It's called Weird Science, just like on our Nerdy d C which we which you all kind of

were mentioning. Um, yeah, so y'all can pick that up for people of all ages, but definitely, you know, get it to the younger crowd so they can they can be a part of STEM with our superhero overalls. Yeah. Well, yeah, thank you, and sorry for blowing It's something that's really been on my mind. I think I'm just going to do a thread where I actually just fully go into it.

But you should. Yeah, I mean there's so many times when you even on this podcast have had the discussion of times when we can tell that there were no writers of color, writers specifically culture, because we just wouldn't do that. You know, even different cultures are are separate, and so it's just like you can tell. And what I was gonna say is when you said I hope that there's writers on the game, I hope there's animators

animate Like you know, black and POC. Animators are so limit like they're just not they're there and they're not given the opportunities in the same way. I think even in the studios that I've been involved with, it seems

like you have to prove yourself. I mean, this is we say this all the time, but literally stories of people who were like lead story board artists for huge movies not being allowed to direct, like that's typically the next step, like just being told that they didn't pay their dues even though they've been there for a decade. It's something all of us, I think could vent about forever. But it's insane, the hoops and obstacles even to be

an animator um on these properties. So again you'll see a black or brown um character, but then you look at the animators and they're all white, so it's it's a mess. I mean, the one thing I'll say about it is you can tell just how much diverse he has needed when you see when you hop into um, when you when you hop into a create a character and you and you stuck with you know, corn rows or apro terrible. You know. Yeah, it's always like you know,

straight up ludicrous and too fast, too furious lovers. I wanted to say, not all Latina's have huge boobs either. This is every video game. Some of us are just a B plus and that's okay. Some of us have have thickness in other areas, which our thighs and our booty and not just up top. Some of us have both,

but not all of us. Okay, representation matters. Yeah. So um Ted Turner, which if you are referencing and I feel like it's a really um popular famous name um is he actually got the his company from his dad who left him. He unfortunately committed suicide and Ted was left like trying to take over this this company, which was really fascinated because he ended up taking a lot of risks. So Ted actually sold off radio stations and

bought a TV station. He bought w j r J in Atlanta, which eventually became w t B S, which had old movies, sports and cartoons. So Ted ended up launching CNN and it was a twenty four hour news channel, and that was wild to people at the time. People were like, why would we need to watch the news? But that formula for CNN ended up lending itself to Cartoon Network, which became a twenty four hour cartoon channel. So when Ted bought MGM, I mean he was just

taking over. He got all of their cartoons. And then when he bought all the w B movies, he got all the cartoons from Warner Brothers. So that was like Bugs Bunny, all the Loony Tunes. So you can understand why he would need Those are hundreds of cartoons, right, hundreds of titles, and so that's why he was like, I need my own channel that just airs all of this property that I have, so a little bit more of the backstory, and he purchased Hanna Barbera and that

was it, right. It was that they have Scooby Doo, they have Yogi Bear, they have the flint Stone Jet sins. I mean, it's like all those old vintage cartoons. So this man was like the mastermind behind UH. And I watched UH. I watched an interview with him where he said adults watched cartoons too, because that was not commonly thought of several decades ago, and he said more people

watch cartoons at night then CNN. So that is something he realized and was like, I'm going to need a channel that fully shows all the properties that I bought, all this money I put in UM. So that is the story of how Ted Turner started Cartoon Network. Wow, thank you uncle to hide ain't through. He was like, we in these tunes out, We're getting these tunes out. So getting the Cartoon Network the banger bar that Danny totally missed when she was like the Seeing News Network.

And then he was able to start a twenty four hour car tune channel, Cartoon Network, Cartoon Network. But that's because I was saving it for you. If he for you on October one, which I know that you love finding out how long since you were born for Yeah, we don't have to get into that, but that is

four years after me and Danny were born. In October UH, the Cartoon Network launched the finale of Tartakovsky's uh launched the finale of Tartakovsky's eighteen twelve or You're with the backdrop of cartoon explosions, followed by a special event called Droopy's Guy to the Cartoon Network, hosted by the MGM cartoon character Droopy, during which the first cartoon on the network, Rhapsody Rabbit, was shown. So that was that was real nice.

Then the late Night Black and White showed early black and white cartoons mostly from the Fleshers Studios and Walter Lance like Witty the Woodpecker from the nineteen thirties and Merry Melodies and you know the classics, and then tune Heads would show three shorts with a similar theme provide trivia about the cartoons. There was also an afternoon cartoon block called high Noon Tunes, which was hosted by Cowboy

hand Puppets. An example of the like simplicity and imagination of the network in its early years and the majority of the class cannimation was that that was the majority of the classic animation that was shown on Cartoon Network. No longer airs on a regular basis, but Tom and Jerry and Looney Tunes still aired and lasted until seventeen. So yeah, I was run and so those running the

classic tunes while they're developing some new heat. Yeah. So because Turner owned so many other channels, they could promote Cartoon Network on the other channels. Remember, they were going against Nicktoons. So Nicktoons, which we did our episode on, was heavily realizing this formula of having kind of weird experimental especially if you look at early Nicktoons, they really allowed their creators to be weird and gross, which is something that kind of came back but went away for

for about a decade um. So they were starting to with a lot of the Cartoon Network commercials, they would add this weird, awkward like modern spin on the vintage cartoons and their first original show actually, so not just the Vintage cartoons. The first original show was The Moxie Show, but it wasn't really popular. So what a lot of people consider their first big show April fift Space Ghost Coast to Coast. It was a top of the hand

of bar They're a superhero. Uh. It was one of their most original programming ideas and really made them stand out like that set the tone then for the rest of the channel was kind of like, oh, there's something cool and funny an adult over here. Um, but did

y'all watch Space Ghost Oh? Yeah, I was. I was big in a Space Ghost The brack was really funny, Uh, just what they turned into and just and it was, you know, I think my first introduction to like, you know, bits and though and like when characters, you know, when when just the idea of like, you know, what each

character is going to do, how they're gonna react. And it was just so funny this concept that they really kind of I feel like, focused on the reality of of like what would it be like if this character was was you know, was was making this late night show with his enemies and and it was just my favorite the one. Yeah, I watched a lot of Space Gosts a little bit later because, um, I'm just slightly

younger than you guys. I was far in nine four, so I wasn't allowed to watch Space Ghosts despite my protests now, but I do remember eventually watching Space Goals and one of the things, uh, that is really interesting about it is they would premiere other shows on there

that would later become Cartoon Network shows. The first time we see the Powerpuff Girls is on Space Goals, Um, which is kind of crazy, and they had a different title that I don't think I can say on this program because it's not eg but you know, like Space Goals is also like such a weird show that really does change the kind of tone of Cartoon Network going forward, because it's so what if we took this old property and just made him a talk show host? Is the

weirdest thing in the world. But also like so many people who worked on that would go on to work on other things that we're going to get into. So I don't want to like spoil anything, but you know, Aquitine hunger for his fans and so on. This kind of all starts here. Yeah, oh so great. Um, speaking of getting into we have to take a really quick break and then we are going to hop down nostalgia. Leine, I'm so excited talking about those huge properties that the

cartoon cartoon time of Cartoon Network. Right after this and we're back, we're walking. I wanted to say something, Jeff, I also couldn't watch Space Ghost. What the heck like that was like when Lion King came out. I was like barely allowed to watch Lion King, not like in our fifties, even if you are a listener in your fifties high Hello, we love you. Um, I know, it's what's so funny? Is uh? That's kind of the nugget that was dropped here just kind of watching it is.

The Space Ghost was a Cartoon Network show originally, but I think most people attributed to Adult Swim because Adult Swim started re airing it. I think that's when I got into it, because it ran until I could see myself, like ninety nine the the end the end kind of era is probably when I kind of came in, but I didn't know it was running that long. I'm actually really surprised because to to me, well technically, it kind of was. I always felt Cartoon Network was around my

whole life. I didn't realize it started it kind of not that long ago. You know, I'm older than Cartoon Network and I if you would have asked me that before this episode, I would have been like, no, this it's been around, just like Nickelodeon. But no, uh no,

Cartoon Network was like, nah, we got this. I couldn't really, I didn't really watch it till the odds, Like I don't think I watched TVZ until like two thousand or something like I don't because I was watching like Rugrats since stuff like I was still too young, I think to watch some of the stuff on. This also depends on when you got cable. Yeah, but it's it's also very interesting to how you had it challenged the medium,

because you know, we did. We never really talked about how our kind of relationship with Cartoon Network, but I definitely know that Cartoon Network always had a different voice to me than Nickelodeon for the longest, and Nickelodeon I was really watching just their live action shows. I wasn't really messing with their cartoons like your Alex Mac You're all that, Like that's what I was really getting from Nickelodeon.

And then Cartoon Network was where I wanted the cartoons like Dexter's Lab and power Puff Girls, and it really they kind of had They were kind of the for lack of a better worth, the edgier of the cartoon giants. But then I think there's somewhere along the line Nickelodeon kind of figured it out, and that's when you had them making things like Adventure Time, which uh that that's a Nickelodeon Cartoon Network network. Okay, whether which one is

the there's one. It's very similar. What am I thinking of? Let me see. You know it's interesting is that Nickelodeon produced the pilot for Adventure Time decided not to keep it. Yeah, network bought it and they did it. They I will say, as I'm friends with a lot of animators, and uh, Nickelodeon has taken a lot of els like that. A Loudhouse is definitely like a show that definitely has a

a a cartoon network vibe even almost style. You know, uh a zim which I would have totally believed was a if you would have told me it was, that was a Nickelodeon show. Um, But like their shows that I kind of definitely was like, that's a nick show. Is like a fairly odd Parents where it's still like trying to like really leaning on the family wholesomeness and all this where cartoon networks kind of like almost in

the void. It almost feels like it's our voice, even though you know, we know it's adults doing it, but they're like we you know they we're gonna do some wild things. You know. It's it's yeah to me. On the on the spectrum, you have Disney. On the right, you have This isn't political. I'm just saying you have the right. You have Nick in the Middle, and you

have Cartoon Network on. Yes, I would totally agree with that from being weird and allowing so Invader Zim is another one where they took an l because they canceled it. They wouldn't let him do what he I think we covered that in our nicktoons, but he was like, if you're not gonna let me do and and brilliant, very funny show, if you're not gonna let me make my show the way I want that, I'm just not going

to give you my show at all. So yeah, yeah, especially you know it's because you know, we like like Zim was already kind of pushing that edge of what a Nick show can do, and I think that's that's that's that's they're like, no, we gotta But also it's funny knowing that this is also the same company that did things like rock O's Mom Life and Rent and Stimpy and then somewhere they just took a full one eight and just like, we're not going to do that

type of weird stuff anymore. I think until we got to see and I think this is maybe possibly taking from the early rent and stimpy slash. How successful um Cartoon Network was was SpongeBob. SpongeBob but brought back that intense close animated shots that are really disgusting and like being weird and gross and having bad breath and boogers and all of that. Um So, but you're right there.

Do you definitely see more of that on Cartoon Network, Which is kind of funny because it's like that's kids humor, Like they're gross and they're weird and they find like dead animals and stuff, and um so, so let's hop into are the big ones that we grew up with. In in we had what a cartoon? Which feels so old? That sounds so old coming out of my mouth, But it was essentially it was essentially for UM. It gave a lot of our histic freedom for animators and creators.

It was shorts. Actually, it was a segment of shorts that would be featured on Cartoon Network to kind of gauge how good they did and if they could be shows on their own. So that's where we had Dexter's Laboratory. We had Powerpuff Girls, we had Johnny Bravo, we had Couraged the cowardly Dog. These all were shorts. They actually, if you have to send this to you had an early version of Family Guy not even kidding. It's a

bald Peter who's older. It's voiced by um Seth McFarlane and he's like picking up a dog at the pound who's Brian. It's insane. Apparently they passed on that, which also like, isn't entirely their brand. Uh, definitely feels more like where it landed Fox and the Simpsons and whatnot. But Canny can't even can't even believe, you know, it would be like a different show that would have been if it was on Cartoon Network, you know, like like like it would it just would be a whole different

the whole different beast. I was about to say, um Quagmire. I was like, we definitely don't need Quagmire on Cartoon Network, but then we have Johnny Bravo, so I'm just gonna shut up. Yeah, I mean, Seth actually worked on Johnny Bravo, I believe makes a lot of sense, makes a lot of sense. But Jeff, out of those like ones that I named were the ones that were like hute that

you really watched on too. We also ended up having after that edit and Eddie and you know, um, my big one was I loved Johnny Bravo, I love power Puff. My big one was Dexter. I'm actually wearing a Dexter shirt. Like that was the show that the one show I kind of would like really make sure to like jump over to Cartoon Network to watch because I was watching a lot of Keenan and Kale and other stuff from

Nickelodeon UM. And I remember like Dexter used to premiere like seven o'clock on Fridays, and I remember like watching it with my dad. There's like a musical episode where they kind it's kind of Michael Jackson inspired, but like that was my show because I don't know that the humor really like stood up to me. And I watched it on HBO Max recently and I was like, oh, this is still very funny, you know, like very simplistic

of like this is Dexter. He's making something, his sister breaks it, reprints, repete, you know, over and over, but it's still like super interesting and funny. Yeah. I think that's what made Dexter such a hit was the layers to it. Because you had the layer of like he's this mad scientist making things, but you had that like very simple, easy to understand kid level thing of always feeling like your siblings are getting in the way and

messing your stuff up. I remember I used to love like that relationship because my d D reminded me of my sister. It's like, yeah, you always miss my stuff up, you know, when you're breaking my stuff. And it was just fun to see him just, uh, you know, just try these new things and they just always pushed the boundaries of like what his tricks would do. And uh, it was a solid opening for Cartoon Network because I

was definitely watching that. I loved Johnny Bravo. That was like the first person character I tried to like impersonate with the voice, Like I was so sure I did a good Johnny Bravo, Like I told all my friends and all I would say is Johnny Bravo. That's all I would say. But I was like, uh, yeah, that was perfectly Yeah, what was Johnny Bravo in here? Um? For me, it was my girls a power Puff power Puff Girls Mojo Jojo. I mean like I was just him,

which I saw someone cause playing as Um. I just loved the concept of this show also combined kind of like that anime style for those of us that were, you know, um getting into anime at the time. And um, I think also just having these three girls that were so different. Um, I definitely definitely felt like I was Buttercup like im if he knows this about me? And very type A. So I was like, she's the leader,

she's the type A, She's like you know. Um. They also had different monsters every week like that to me is really even just looking from an animated standpoint, Um, I I loved all the colors, Like I just it was such a for me. It just embodied who I was at that time, in elementary school to middle school and so that was like one of my favorite and just seeing girls beat up people. Yeah, I mean yeah.

It was a solid show. And this was Craig McCracken, who who like before that, worked on Two Stupids Dogs, Space Ghost, Coast to Coast. He had an appearance as himself, uh you know he did. He was on you know what a cartoon obviously on Dexter's Lab, so he was kind of like, you know, one of one of cartoon networks guys and h you went on to EP Regular Show, writer, storyboard artist for Chowder uh and uh. And his next kind of big thing after that, which I remember being great,

was Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends. So so Craig, you know, definitely one of those folks who who was knocked it out of the park. I was, I was, you know, he also ePAT the pilot of Regular Show as well. So so that was and we had all of those Dexter and Powerpuff Girls and whatnot. And if we had a spaceship, we had a robot named Tom, and we had five hours anime programming. I don't even want to go I don't even want to go too long into this because it's gonna have to be its whole own episode.

This will be its own episode. Two Unami launched, and that was that. That just pretty much I think that brought the everyone to to Cartoon Network, like like it was through the power of wea biness that we had everyone there. Because that's how that's how I kind of caught onto some shows that maybe weren't on my radar. Was you get to Tunami a little earlier and you're like, oh, what's this thing going on? Like if you prepared as

the opener for Tunami. You're in for some good traffic because you you didn't because Tsunami was such an event that even the interstitial stuff you wanted to see, like all the like back and forth with Tom and seeing what he has to say. So you were there early. So so if you were, if you were a a pre Twunami show, you definitely had eyes on you. We had so, Jeff, I don't know what you um. I know everyone knows what my favorite thing in Tunami is,

but we had Sailor Moon DBZ. Voltron Reboot also ended up having Gundam Wing. I'm sure Tenchi Muyo later. Um, was there a specific anime that you were tuning into for? To me? Um, what's to no? No, I'm kidding. I loved Reboot. Reboot was my big show. That was the first one I really got into. But I think we all know where this is going, and it's Dragon Ball Z. Yeah, yeah,

I might. I have an interesting thing with Dragon Ball Zy where my friend was trying to get me to watch it forever and I was like, I have no interest, And the episode I finally watched it is, in hindsight, probably the least interesting episode of the series. It's when they're on the way to Dynamic and they run into that ship Krillin and Boma and Gohan. No it's not the one, because that would be hilarious. Um, they running, well, they run into the ship of like it's like Little Boys.

It's kind of like a Robin or not rob like a Peter Pan situation in space. And I think they're trying to like take uh you know, Sea Fighter Team's ship. And I was just enamored because I had never seen anything like it, you know, and literally did. I didn't even know who Gohan was, who Goku was. My first introduces to the show is Gohan and Krylin. So um yeah,

I mean I don't know what have happened. If I hadn't seen that episode, if I'd be like some giant nerd who doesn't know about Dragon Bozzy, and that would be sacrilegious. Oh yeah, I mean. Well, one thing I want to go back and correct, which I totally did forget about, was we we saw tom in when it launched in we had space ghost villain Maltar running the ship.

It was him first, you know, pulling on the on the ones and twos to drop these uh these these little these cartoons for us, and I do, I do remember that, but it's so it was such a small piece of time because Tom is Tom. You don't think of tonam without thinking Tom. But we doubt. I do want to put the little respec on Multar for pulling them and the levers to get us these animals right uh right up top, you know, because it was it was,

it was good. Yeah. I didn't join and I think until Tom was yeah yeah, because when like launched with ThunderCats cartoon uh Roulette, which had like different old school cartoons mixed in Voltron and Johnny quest so and then the next year is when it went uh full anime. So the first year was a wash. I probably didn't even watch that the first year. The second year is

ten years. We are ten years old at this point, Danny, is when we jumped over and we had Robotech, Beast Wars, Transformers, Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball Z, and Super Friends and that is that. Now that is a lineup that is an unbeatable lineup. And then we had in reboot Roman Wars and power Puff Girls and then two thousand one of the most I feel like slept on because I just

for some reason. This anime is just the design. The idea of it was always tight g Force, Guardians of Space Mobile Suit, Gundham Wing, Batman animated series, Tinchy Mullo, Tinci Universe, Tinchi in Tokyo Blue Summer Number. This was the era where there was way too many Tinchy shows. I remember this. I was like, why why are there

so many Tinchy shows? Because like one was like an actually like an actual like Samurai anime, and then there was one that it felt like it was all about the girls being horny for him, Like, uh, I don't know which one, but it was wild? Um which one? Did you? Uh? Well, I don't, you know. I think

everyone knows. Everyone knows. But it's so funny because looking at these lineups, I remember getting them all and it's so funny because we talked about this a ton of times with dragon Ball Z, the the ever looping, never being able to finish it, because in two thousand one is when they showed dragon Ball after they ran dragon Ball Z. So they showed dragon Ball after dragon Ball Z. But this, I think, damn, I think this is the one.

This is this is the year two thousand one. You had Outlast Star Big Oh, Card Captor, Sucura, Uh Mobile Suit, Gundam, the eight MS Team and War in the Pocket, Zoid's Batman Beyond and dragon Ball, And that might be one of the hardest years. I like, we might have to do a poll and see which one everyone like. If only the show is listed, what's the year you're taking, Because this really does feel like one of those house memes because the it's it's great and it's truly sorry.

I might we gotta keep going because I'll get lost into Nami. That was an era that is the foundations of I would say, the foundations of the career I sit on right now. Yes, that gave me my NERD credit. I feel like it's animal Yeah I I I push everyone to go through and look at those lines, because it was like I was going back into my couch every time I was reading these names. Because some you're even forgetting. You're like, oh, yeah, I was watching Battle and do not me. Oh I love I love being

a nerve. We have to take a really quick break. But then next up m hm, we got when he was talking about how a lot of adults watching these cartoons, We're gonna talk about Adults Swim right after this, and we're back, So we're hopping forward a little bit, uh to two thousand and one. Sundays at ten pm, we have Adult Swim. Now, if y'all remember, um the commercials for this, do you remember it was like a bunch of elderly people like coping into the pool and whatnot.

So this was mature content for older audiences, which if you're a kid, there's no way you're turning the challenge. Wait, you're turning in the channel if you if it was the perfect marketing because you're gonna sit there a bunch of kids and be like, all right, y'all gotta turn now because it's about to be for the don't you were like the hell I am? Uh? They had re runs, anime, more anime that we couldn't technically watch on two Nami, a lot of sketch comedy, and it kind of created

its own brand which still holds up today. Like I think Adult Swim is considered you know, when I think of the Adult Swim exhibit at Comic Con every year, it's like kind of although it's a part of Cartoon Network, it has it definitely is its own brand and own style. Um. Yeah, yeah, Jeff, So do you remember like some of the original thing. Were you watching Adult Swim at this time at two thousand and one where you allowed to watching it. I was the mature age of eleven, and I was ready

to watch Aquittine Hunger for Yeah. I think Family Guy might No, Family Guy wasn't there yet, but I know I was watching Aquutines. Um geez. I think Baby Blues was on the first season. Uh, what do they have? Home movies? Movies movies? We thought that was so gross and weird. My brothers and I would watch that. I was Yeah, I was very off put by the style of home movies because I was so used to like, oh, so this is is this occurred? What is this doctor

Cats coming out? Cats? Yeah? Yeah, I don't know. If you're the one thing that always stands out to me about home movies is, um, I forgot the little scruffy kids. But he was like, yeah, my mom says, I have cradle cap and he opens up. Do you remember that scene? Every kid people at home are listening to this, Like, I remember that he opened up his hair and you can see it like on his scalp, his name, and um,

that is what stands out for me about movies. Yeah, I know, yeah, they Adult Swim is interesting and this is another thing that would probably get its own episode, but because it was interesting seeing Adults Swim fall into its voice, because it really definitely even from the beginning, you could tell they had they slowly started like having those bumps where they would say a little snarky things, and then they just went to the all black and I was like, oh, oh, what was this all about?

And then they're just having a combo with the audience leading into things, and it was almost like, in a weird way, they just kind of took the two Nami formula and they're like, oh, we're just we're just kind of like between bumps, talk to the audience before we jump into stuff, but make it more adult snark humor. And they and it seems like they really knocked it out the part because people really just was vibing with it. And then they started adding like flying Lotus and its

music in the back. It was yeah, Adult Swim really grew into It's it's always cool to see something find its voice and then like stick with it, and it was and they they were holding it down, you know,

you had Adults Swim. They were kind of they eventually slowly started taking the brunt of Tonami up until uh, you know, Tunami was running like up until like two thousand and eight, and then like then it was on Adult Swim and they had the Anime block and that, and then in two thousand twelve they brought to Nami back. Uh so let's a and and and and they're going

hard with this. It's so funny because like I felt the big oh too oh yeah, the weird second series though, like I I always had like like all the stuff they're showing on onto on the new two Namie, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm watching it on your crunchy roll and all that stuff. Because it's so funny that anime is

so accessible now. I mean, there's still nothing like watching it for free if your parents have cable or if you're under age and can't have a million streaming apps, but it is like cool to see like just what is kind of blowing up and it seems like what the smart thing that Tunami is still doing is really knocking out those like shown in anime that are popping because all these you know, fire Force, you know, you got my Hero, Demon Slayer Joe Joe, like, those are

the ones everyone's talking about anyway, So the kids are still in on it. Kids are still in I think to just getting to see because we know some of those voice actors, at least for the English dub, so I think just getting to see them in the stylized Cartoon Network slash Tunami commercials, which were always super famous.

One of my favorites that I think everyone remembers from Tunami was when they were um Future Trunks, when they're advertising Future Trunks and it's him slashing through the screen um. And so even now with one punch Man or Dragon Ball Super when they had it on there, I don't know if it's still on their replaying, although I wouldn't doubt it. Um is is it's funny to get to have that, like um those quick cuts of like a very popular Tunami, like the style of Tunami commercials that

they would do to promote. One thing I did want to bring up is in two thousand and six, Cartoon Network actually had its first live action movie, which was reanimated. It was very much in this style. I don't know if you saw this, um if you're Jeff, but it was in the style of Who Framed Roger rabbit Ish, where it's like live action and the cartoons end up turning into a show which was called Jimmy's Head Show

Out of Jimmy's Head. Yeah, yeah, um, but yeah. It was kind of controversial because they started to go in that direction of having more which we still see kind of on adults women stuff, is having humans, and I think that was kind of upsetting for some people that were just like, no, this is cartoons only. Um, but you even had on Space Coast there would be human guests. Yeah. But I think a lot of people were scared that this was going to turn into like what Nickelodeon is

or Disney, which is half and half. Um. I think a lot of people didn't want that too to happen. So I remember now now looking at it, Yeah, I don't totally remember reanimated and out of Jimmy's Head. Yeah, And I was people are like, oh, it's a cartoon network.

I was like, yeah, but it's still cartoon adjacent in their defense, but you know, and this is like well after two thousand and four, when they kind of rebranded and had their originals only thing going on, and that's when you had Mega's XLR Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends and Hi, Hi Puffy Mommy. You MEI who I had the biggest crush on? I was, I was, I was all in. I was ready to go. I was like taking me to Tokyo. I'm about to go out there and meet him. Um it was. I was deep in.

Uh they were and it was in Papiami. Umi was the this Japanese popra duo and they and it was that perfect uh, that that style of where where they're like, Okay, we kind of have a little street style, but also we're like fun and they they were. It's they were just like super super big. And then they had a show and in the US that kind of uh really we were like okay, who are these and then we kind of knew him as though. The people who did the intro to Teen Titans and we're like, okay, well

y'all did that. We messing with you that that intro did slap. I would be remiss slash. Also not wanting to get hate mail if we don't bring up Samurai Jack. Don't put some respect on Samurai Jack. I think all of us watched it, I you know, that animation style, classic animation style, so recognizable. UM also wanted to give a shout out to Billy and Mandy. A lot of

people repped Billy and Mandy. Yeah. Um, but now, Jeff, we're kind of approaching you'll or the current present day cartoon network, UM, which we have Craig of the Creek, which we said is is nominated for an Emmy. UM, how do you feel? I mean, I feel like y'all have been groundbreaking, like literally groundbreaking at this channel, but

also an animation. Do you feel like there is a lot of pressure on the show to two you know, I just I'm curious, like as a creator and and being groundbreaking what that means as far as artistic freedom for Craig of the Creek. Huh. I mean, I don't.

I think there's a lot of pressure in the sense of wanting to do things that need to be done and doing them correctly, you know, like because we're following like Stephen Universe and Clearance and a lot of other shows that were able to like really inform and really I think help like just you know, show people like that people are different and who people love are different, or people's skin color is different, and you know, like these are characters you can like and empathize with and

see yourself in. And I know that's something that we really wanted to do on CREG just from day one. Um, I think we've done a fine job so far of just really like trying to make things as the verse

as we can. But we're always pushing that envelope. We're always trying to make sure that like people are addressing characters the way they should be, you know, if somebody is non binary, or addressing them by the proper pronouns and stuff, because that's stuff super important and it's super important to instill that into kids now, Like you know, Um, I think that the better we are and like really hitting those things and really showing that, like there's gonna

be different types of people that you're going to encounter, and they are no less valid than anyone else. Everyone is at this together. All these kids play harmoniously, and all these kids appreciate each other and love each other, and that's something that so many people need to do. Um. So I guess there's a pressure in it, but I think it's the societal pressure that everyone has. I think that you know, I'm not under any more pressure than

you or if you or anyone else. It's just we want to make sure that we have this platform and we're using it properly. And I think that's one of the ways we can do it. Um. I you know, there's a lot of eyes on the show, and yeah, I just want to make sure that we're getting the best message out that we can. Yeah, I think of when I think of my friend Laula, who does a Costa grandees Over, which is a spinoff of Loudhouse. Um,

this Chicano Family. For me, it's just kind of I think pressure in like if this doesn't do well, like when will we get this again? You know, it's kind of like what we're talking about, Like we just don't get to really have a lot of animators and creators

of color that are getting to as many risks. So I guess it is cool that it's at Cartoon Network because it does feel like a channel that has dived into risks like and I think that is why a lot of these are so successful, is because they let their creators take big swings um, and a lot of those payoff. But are there, um speaking as the head writer writing, are there shows that have influenced your style. Um yeah, I mean taking it back to something I

brought up earlier was Static Shock. That was a very important show to me for so many reasons as a kid, but also like they pushed the envelope a lot, and they did things about race, and they did things about like gun violence and so many things that we're still dealing with today, which it seems kind of taboo to bring up in cartoons for kids now, and they were doing it, you know, twenty years ago, and I know that stuff really affecting me and it helped me learn

and I think that when we get the opportunity to kind of teach kids, that that's something that we need to do. So um, there's that's been a big influence for me. Also in the sense of like seeing a black lead. That wasn't the thing I saw a lot.

It was always like you're the sidekick, you're the gero, you're the nerd or the whatever, you know, like, and that was something really important to us when doing Craig is like, Craig is the lead, and he's not just the nerd or the athlete or the you know what. He's just a kid and everybody can just be a kid. You don't have to have all these like, you know, different pressures on you. So that's um for us. That's

like the big thing that we're thinking of. That's the big thing that I'm always thinking of going into these stories. It's just how can we make sure that, like this show needs to speak to everyone, and yes, it needs to speak to black people, and yes it does, I think, and we should feel represented, but it also needs to speak to everyone so they know that, you know, we're all just people, you know. Yeah, feel that. I feel that. I feel that I have a couple more questions. Unless

you have some questions. If he no, no, you can go ask away. Well. As far as creators breaking into this space, there's no one way to do it. I know we all have like stumbled into not stumbled, but like have different avenues that we have created for ourselves in order to get to where we are. Is there any advice that you give to young creators that are like listening. I feel like we have a lot of people that are trying to come up in the industry right now that listen to Iffy Nice show. I don't

know if there's any advice that you could give them. Oh, man um even just basic. Yeah, it's tough because, like you said, there's so many different ways I think. Um, you know, the basic answer is always like practice and right and practice your craft, and I think that's important. But a lot of it is experiences. You know, like a lot of times your experiences reflect your writing or reflect your art style. And it's very easy to fall

into a run. I know for me, especially in working on stories, it's very easy to like come to it from I have this background and this is how I'd approached it. And sometimes you need those different experiences to fully realize things. You have to be open, you have to talk to people. You can't just assume that like, hey, I'm gonna write this story and uh, there's gonna be the Samoan character. I know nothing about Samoan people. So like put in the work and learn the experiences and

try to reflect that in your story. But also like, don't feel like you can't be yourself and what you're working on too, Like you really need to infuse yourself because that's what you're selling. You're selling your experience as well as what you think other experiences are from your own, like you know, going out there and learning and experiencing different people's lives. I think also for me, and I'm sure you feel this way too if he is like

not getting pigeonholed. Like, so, as a writer, you know, the show that I sold was about my trauma like experience in mental health care system. But I don't want to just be the trauma comedy writer. I realized that a lot of people were hitting me up to like, you know, this is about mental health and this show is about mental health, and I'm like, that's great. I kind of just want to write a superhero show, you know.

I kind of just so the next thing that I'm doing right now is an animated property that like doesn't deal with hate crimes and doesn't deal with like you know, it's kind of just like not not saying that you can't do both. That's what I'm saying, is like don't It's kind of like what you were saying, like no, no, like your voice, but also know that that's not the

only story that you can tell. And so I was just kind of tired of being the expert in trauma like, but I also want to have joy, and I want to see our characters having joy and being carefree and like just getting to go to an amusement park for the day or something and not have to worry about their parents being deported. And it's just like so, so I I would encourage people to um find their voice, but also what are shows that bring you joy? And

watch those? And what I'm doing for my animated property is I had to sit down and watch what is out now. You know, it's not the same as when I when I was younger watching. I have a great animated background, but what are kids watching right now? So

I'm not pitching something that's already out there. Um And just so I can know some of these conversations, like you were saying, the conversations they have on Craig of the Creek and on Stephen Universe are way different than what they were allowed to have a decade or two ago. That's on some of these these shows. So things have elevated and um our characters are even allowed to be even more fleshed out. Uh And And so I would encourage anyone trying to jump into animation to watch a

lot of what is out right now. We did it, we did it. We did not talk about every show. I'm we will do a part two. I promise we never can talk about every show, and that's why we have episodes about shows. So this is a about the journey to where what we've gotten from from Cartoon Network. And if you have a show that you're like, oh, I want to hear you'all talk about this, I gotta

do is gently tweet us. We'll put it on the roster. Jeff, where can people find People can find me on Twitter and on Instagram if you want to see drawings of me done by more talented people at Mr Jeff trammel u two elms, two els. And I will also tweet about our show, our Emmy nominated show Until you went in where you can watch it all right? Uh? And me? You know I'm always if you wide away, Twitter, Instagram, if d's on Twitch, the Salt Squad grows every you

know y'all have been in there. You know Jeff's been playing. If y'all, if y'all think you'all can beat Jeff at Dragon Ball fighter Z, pull up, I'm gonna let you know right now you probably can't. I know you good. Jeff is nice. Jeff is so nice that we had some dude come in from the chat and he was like, oh, is there a skilled Limon And I was like, no, This boy came and watched us, and then he got Jeff once and then he was talking about how he'd be training and all this stuff, and then Jeff came

back and beat him. So so so let's say, Jeff, it's nice with it. Uh So, so come come, come with the heat. We're gonna we're gonna get back to what everyone's been. Have him dying, uh to have me do it again? And Zeno voice of Hawks that he wants in next time. So it'll be fun. You'll get to get washed by by the creator of Craig's Creek and possibly the voice of Hot. But you know, if you need to feel good your boy out here. Me I'm still learning, don't worry. I'm gonna I'm gonna get

one of these fiber classes going. And then one day I'm just gonna come back like a big boy and Jeff ain't gonna know what hit him. That's that's my new that's my new limit. Right now? Where am I I am? Miss Danny Fernanez and all the things. And also if he and I um both were on a called the Great Debate, which came out this week, so check it out. It's on sci Fi. It's a bunch of nerds and comedians arguing about comedy nerds things. It's

very funny. So I saw some people in the comments like, oh, you know, but I'm like, this is not a straight statistical like you know in this season of Batman. He blah blah blah. It's it's nerdy comedy people being nerdy comedy people. So it's very entertaining. And watch it. It's on sci Fi get Out dropping every week for the next month. All right, Uh well, I guess that's also I guess one. Is it the way we normally in this and say say