When life and ministry is good, and we have a strong sense of ownership, what do we do with the internal shift that feeling that change is looming around the corner. I'm Tim Austin and you're listening to navigate. This is a place where I'm captivated by all things transition related. And from time to time, I like to dive in deep to a fellow travelers person, personal transition story. And you know, there's so much to learn from each other as we get vulnerable
and share our stories. And today, we'll be continuing the conversation with Jennifer Davis, Jennifer is a former college classmate of mine who has been navigating a major transition season. She's a wife, Mom and pastor within the Assemblies of God movement. And we're going to be picking
obviously reported to, conversations with the board. And I've got to tell you, it's easy to want to leave when things are hard. But when things are good, why do you want to leave? Then we bought a house. I mean, we're like, we're gonna let the roots keep sinking down. But, you know, I look back now. And I realized, even moving into that house, it was like, we'd been kind of uprooted and put in a nursery pot. And it felt very temporary. I can I see
that now? I just thought it was the, you know, the chaos of moving that is, you know, maybe that's why I felt that way of No, I realized it was just the beginning of a bigger transition the Lord was gonna lead us to make Yeah, so you know, things are great. Right. Getting to see the fruit of everyone's labor. The beauty that alignment, and unity brings. And here I feel, Oh, Lord. The vision is stopping and the sense of responsibility is being lifted.
You said the grace. Beginning to live.
Yes. And through that time, I will say I really began to understand that the next most important thing that I would do for that church was to leave.
Yeah. And you began to realize that a lot of what I'm hearing you say is, is internal kind of this knowing? Sensing this knowing internal. What do you what do you do with that? Because a lot of people, depending on how we're wired, that's a that's a lot of that's a big struggle for people who are wrestling with possible transition. We do with what did you do with that internal pace?
Oh, you know, what, I tried to be really present with what I was sensing, and I'm a feeler. I'm like the one that walks into a room and feels like all the stuff that's going on in the room. And that's why it was challenging when things were, you know, less than peaceful around the campus everywhere I'd walk I'd like absorb something else. And, and so, you know, I'd walk the
campus a lot. And there were places up on a hill down the hillside in the sanctuary behind the sanctuary, you know, I can see them now even as we're talking, where when I would sense I could sense the Spirit of God at all, you know, almost like a breeze and I, I just worked at training myself to stop and listen, I wanted to hear what Father God was telling me what are you telling me? Why am I sensing this? Why does this
feel different? And like I said, is this it's just the honeymoon over and now I you know, but it I was beginning to understand the that what needed to happen next in the life of that organization was going to require some Somebody else to put their hand to the plow. So there was a there was a surrendering that had to happen. This is the place. I mean, we served there before our son was born. Our son, okay, just on a
personal level, right? It was our son was dedicated when you're here, he was baptized here. Yeah, we've got you know, the kids that were little are now leading, you know, students from our youth ministry are now pastors on staff, just such a tremendous love for a people and a place. And so I, I would say that it was like, it was like a continuous conversation with the Lord. I'm getting kind of teared up just thinking about just surrendering. And really, that's
what we're called to do. We're called to live with a surrender posture. Right? I have so marveled in Jesus's humanity. I think I've focused more on his humanity in the past, probably five years than ever before. In in how did he walk with such a surrendered posture? He said yes to the cross, you know, probably a million times before it ever happened. Because he was surrendering, surrendering, surrendering, surrendering, surrendering, staying aligned, staying aligned with his father.
All day long, right? So it was a season of just surrendering over and over and over again. And realizing that I didn't know what was next. And from the time I left Bethany, had always served in ministry at a church, you know, and the way that it typically works is, the, the phone rings, and your next opportunity shows up. Right? Or, you know shows you the door, and then you go looking, I've seen it both ways. Yeah. But I was standing there. Not knowing
Yeah, and unsure. And it was actually my husband who said, Jen, you ought to take a sabbatical and not look for what's next.
Yeah, that's what makes this transition. stand apart from previous ones, in a sense that you didn't know what you were going into. And actually, that was God's plan that you didn't know. Yes. And then there's this invitation to
sabbatical. And I really th nk during transition seasons, easons, we we get these inv tations from the Lord, which are focused on recalibra ing, stepping back renewing ur focus and our perspective, and just so there's this invitat on, but sometimes we don't alway receive those very well, becaus we don't give ourselves perm ssion, you know, to to. Even tho gh the Lord may be or others ma
be giving us permission. But w have these internal thing, t is internal thing going on somet mes where we think we couldn't o that.
And this is one of the situations where our church had a policy about sabbaticals that after so many years, you would get a three month sabbatical. I, I was actually at a point where I, it was time for that. I actually passed a little bit, it was almost the timing wasn't good to step away. So I had to ask myself, am I just tired, and I was tired. I was really tired. I didn't feel conflicted anymore. You know, there wasn't that sense of battle, right? But, um,
but I was tired. Should I step away and the more we talked about, the more we prayed about it, I realized, huh? No, it's that the assignments done my assignments done. I turned my I turned my paper in is you know, what it felt like, and so you know, that jumping out into the unknown and actually taking a break. You know, because I could have just resigned, you know, so I so key conversation I involved my senior pastor in this conversation. And we set an end
date two months out. So two months to kind of help everyone transition which was really helpful. And then jump out into the unknown. I'm trying to remember if I felt afraid. I felt apprehensive. apprehension. I turned 50 this year. There aren't like a whole lot of female senior leaders in the movement that we've been a part of. I've been in this fabulous place, and leading on a level I'd kind of waited to lead up for ever. I hit my stride. And what if that never happens
again? Right? It was scary. Butyou know, I just one of the things that I've always been fascinated with with were people that took huge leadership leaps. Yeah, I find myself interviewing people. I remember meeting a guy up in Portland that owns a chocolate store. And I began to talk to him and he had been like an accountant. And he had a passion for chocolate. And he like, left this high paying job as an accountant to become a
chocolate tier. And you know, I find myself interviewing strangers and friends and colleagues that have done amazing brave things. So like church planters missionaries, you know, what, and I found myself asking about the leadership leap. And how did you take that risk? And how did you make that leap. And I knew enough about myself to know that I had never taken that kind of a leap. And it might sound funny to think that taking a break was somehow this
huge leap. But for me, it was the Lord's invitation to be transformed. And, you know, I'm, it's a little funny to talk about it right now. Because I think the process is still happening for me. But what he was inviting me into was a deeper sense of trust in Him, in His provision, his direction, but also a trust in my ability to hear his voice and, and do whatever it is, he's asking me to do. And so to step out, and say, okay, it's a big blank canvas, and I'm going to be okay
with that, right? was a huge leap of faith for me. And my mom is so sweet. She, like took me out. And you know, want to know if I was depressed, which I was grateful she was checking in, because it was so crazy. People thought it was crazy, you know, and yet, I had just a deep sense of peace. And knowing this was the next assignment. It wasn't just leaving that position. It was accepting an invitation, okay, to enter into a transformational journey with the Lord. Okay. And so that in
itself was the assignment. That was the assignment. Yeah, that has been the assignment.
Okay. So yeah, and that's what you know, I think that a lot of times. Well, there's a couple things here. I talked to a lot of people who are in these big transitions and all the what if questions come up? Yes. What if I do this? What if I take this leap? Am I hearing the Lord karate isn't just my flesh or my own desire, trying to, you know, money thinking the grass is greener. But I think the also the other thing is giving ourselves permissions. permission to dream
is important. Yeah. And I think sometimes the Lord invites us into these seasons to dream with him. Yeah. Again, there's it takes faith and that's stretch for many of us to do that, because it's not necessarily to the place doesn't feel secure, you know? And necessarily, but he is it he invites us into that place of just dreaming with him what could be yes. Getting in touch with our desires and things we're most passionate about too, because we can go for
long seasons. And I know that that's where, where I think our my life on the mission field took so many turns. And I became, by necessity, kind of a jack of all trades. Yes. And in doing so many different things and taking on so many different roles. Yeah, that I forgot. I forgot what, and a lot of ways what I was most passionate about. Yeah, it put me on a journey of discovery once I, as you say, surrender to that process, a journey of discovering and dreaming with the Lord about what could be
yes. And I think that's part of it. It's part it's part of, it's related to midlife too, because in midlife, we, we oftentimes come to these places where I want to use the second I want to invest the second half of my life, and really hone in on what's right. very strategic strategic. What is what is there that are sure that I want to? I want to focus on?
yeah. Well, you know, it was really, um, I just by nature, I'm, I'm achievement oriented, and goal oriented. Um, so to not have like, for my only specific target to be like, rest, recover, hear from the Lord. You know, I think I was just tired enough that I could surrender to that I joke around with people and I say, you know, we've got a puppy, like, a couple months prior. Seriously, I took a sabbatical, someone had to take care of the puppy.
Right? Okay. So it's like, you know, I tell him that and it's like, I like, had my last day, I threw on my yoga pants and started eating loaves of bread. I mean, it was like, I just gave into, I'm resting and I kind of had to fight. Mostly, there were just certain people that I would talk to, and I could feel kind of the internal pressure to explain what was happening. Explain the plan. Explain, explain. Explain. And I had to, I had to get very comfortable with saying, I don't know. Yeah,
which can feel flaky. But you know, right. from the get go and talking to our pastor and talking to the board. We said, we don't know. We don't know what's next. And we want to invite you into our journey by praying with us, as we discern, beyond the sabbatical. What's next, a lot of people a lot of ideas. And I just, I felt like it was so essential, we felt it was so essential to really give into this rare, completely rare moment. That was not ushered in
by crisis. Right. It was an invitation from the Lord to step away, to be, you know, replenished, and we want to go the distance all the way to heaven. And, you know, hear that well done, and know, you know, skip and get into heaven, we can all you know, get into heaven. But the sense that we actually accomplished the work that he designed for us to do, right in the way he designed for us to do it aligned with him. You know, I just that second half is so, so
important. And we know that it's not even promised to us, but it's it just is really essential. And so um, you know, so we entered in and that was how many months ago it's been just over a year I just crossed the year mark just crossed and it was a year Yes. A year long sabbatical and and i will what I will say is that I went into it, hoping for the summer. Okay. Hoping for summer. Okay for the summer seasons. Yeah. Then. Yes.
What is summer? What is summer look like?
Well, it was actually physically the summer it was the end of June when I stepped out and I we had kind of looked at our cash flow. We were drastically cutting our income and we're To income family, and how long could we go? And how long can we stretch before I needed to do something. And I had committed to myself that I would rather get a job at Starbucks or Borders or anywhere. If we needed income, before I went and became employed somewhere in ministry, unless the Lord directed me to
do so. That was just where i, where i was that I felt like, what was going to happen during the sabbatical season was so essential for the next chapter of life and ministry that I didn't want to do anything to shortchange that and just go back into it, use a jack of all trades, I completely relate to that, you know, just doing, doing ministry as a job. I've been fortunate that I've, I've been employed in the church, I've been able to focus on that
full time. And that's been my vocation, right along with my employment. I mean, not everyone gets to do that, you know. Um, so, but I knew for this next season, it was it was a yielding to the process. Okay. All right. So going off the track. Well, we're talking about it's been a lot of time alone with a puppy this year. So my talking skills are wrestling. Yeah. So yeah, it was a yielding. Oh, yeah. This summer. That's what I think summer Yeah, the summer. So Lord, can I just have the
summer? Would you provide enough for the summer? Because I didn't have a timeline in there different kinds of sabbaticals. I'm not an expert on sabbatical. You know, there's some people that travel a lot or people that want to do split, accomplish specific areas of study or their sabbatical. This was not that this was I was like, the equivalent of a crumpled up sheet. And the Lord hung me on the line, and just let the wrinkles like, ease out in a warm summer breeze. He was so
kind to me, and gentle. And that intensity that, you know, three hours in the morning, preparing, yeah, that was gone. You know, like it was there was an ease to life. And I mean, what a gift. I know, there are when people say like, Oh, I could never do that, you know, yeah. And it came, it came at a cost for our family, we had to make different choices. And we had to choose to use, you know, money that we'd
saved. And so, you know, three months went by, and we were you know, praying about what was next. And really what we experienced is that he didn't show us a next like specific assignment like plant a church, write a book. Yeah, join the circus. Whatever is in here is about three months in or so he began to show us a new area, a new region. And and that's how we wound up moving to Folsom,
California. And so he began to show us that and actually it been on our radar, kind of the year before we stumbled into Folsom and discovered this place we we drove into town and saw somebody walking a zebra across the bridge. And we thought, What is this magical place? I still don't know.
It wasn't a dog?
It was absolutely a zebra. Oh, yeah, I'll tell you about the time that I got attacked by a peacock in Folsom. But that's for another podcast. So um, so suddenly, he began to highlight a place for us. And long story short is about six months, almost seven months into the sabbatical. We had our family relocated, we actually picked up and moved and people said, immediately, you know, Facebook explodes. Do you have a new position? Which is like normal
questions? But our response was "no, but the Lord is positioning us." And that's what we really sensed. And it was just that continued. I've never been on a journey like this before in my life. But I wish that I lived my entire Christian walk like this, in terms of that sense of surrender and just trusting that the Lord is going to go before you he's going to lead us he's going to open and close the doors, things like our LinkedIn pages, and all those things play a role. But really, it's about
what his assignment is. True, right? Yeah. Trusting. You know, even walking in the season and being like, I'm feeling very full Hon, like, people don't know me, we don't have any credibility in this new area. None. We don't have the history. We don't have that lineage. Right? totally blank, like in our old environment, even throughout the city, or the cities, that tripe. Everywhere I go, I'd run into somebody I knew. And there was a sense of
credibility. And there was the the joy of family, like the the songs that are youth group, and now they're in their youth group and our son's youth pastor had been in our youth group, and there was, he was like, being an elder in the tribe. You know, there's this web of relationships. Yeah. So joy, joyful, and to come into a new place. And even walk into a new church and be like, nobody knows me. Nobody knows what I can do. Right. Right. So what I can do, and then having to surrender that.
Surrender that piece, right. Yeah, it goes with your and that yeah, that's the the identity piece. And yes, that the purpose? Yeah, loss of maybe. What we what we feel is our what we've been, you know, kind of placing value on our lives and how we, how we, or other think others see us and what the value we bring.
It's our personal brand, is how people say it today.
Okay, so how just just overall kind of how's this sabbatical? season? Because position you for the next thing? Like it? Yeah, just?
Well, you know, it's interesting I just did. A few weeks ago, I did just a short class, it was a for a coaching certification. And I did the first class, I thought, I'm gonna actually use this using the it was in the last month of my sabbatical. So I will say this, the three months stretch to six months, our family relocated, totally changed our situation. And we realized I could keep going for a little ways. And so time went on settling our family into this
new place. And then I started just like that time, the couple the spring before when I felt the Lord, you know, taking the coat off, right. It was like, I could tell he was fitting me for a new coat, and that the season was coming to an end. So we started talking about them processing that as a family. And I don't know what the work is going to be. But what is this going, how is this going to impact us? And I, I said to my 14 year old, how do you feel about me beginning to beginning
to work again? And he said, Well, Mom, it's called a sabbatical. It's not called retirement. I thought that was, you know, wise for 14 year olds, you know. And so we started gearing up for that. And one of the most beautiful things is we started our sabbatical in Hawaii. And then we had scheduled another trip to Hawaii, because of our family friends, there was going to be a wedding. And I didn't realize it, but it was on the exact same week, one year later. So it was
like the Lord book ended. Yeah, this beautiful, beautiful season. Yeah, so just kind of gearing up for, you know, the winding down, and then the gearing up. So I decided to take this class, just follow me on the rabbit trail, started to take this class. And I went to the class really, to use that time, and that space was three days away. And I knew I would be in like, you know, 100 coaching conversations over the course of
this class. And so I went in, I'm intentionally wanting to focus on how am I going to transition out what's next, etc, etc. And, and one of the exercises that we did, they use a tool, it's pretty common in coaching called the wheel of life. And it has a bunch of like pie shapes. It's a circle with looks like a pie, pie, and it has, you know, health, family work, you know, all the
different segments of life. And, you know, the idea would be is that you give this to somebody and they're on a scale of one to 10 supposed to shade in the little pieces of pie to show how satisfied they were experiencing those parts of their life. And you really you can make a wheel of life with anything. Then you can use it to measure, you know, satisfaction in whatever area. And so it was really
interesting. So I was filling out my, my, you know, my little pieces of my pie and I had people sitting to my left and right, and I looked at their pie, and it was like, little tiny, low numbers, it looked like really sad. Like, I don't want that pie, you know. And I looked at mine, and the whole thing was almost colored in solid. And I realized in that moment, that that a time of rest, a time of actually having recreation, a time of
reconnecting with myself. And with so many important people in my life, we didn't even talk about that. It created such alignment within myself, that it equaled amazing satisfaction. Yeah. And, and it was really, if I filled that little pie thing out, like, a year, year before, it would have been, you know, right, blank, practically, practically. And so it I, that really was telling to me, and it showed me that I was I'm, I
guess whole Yeah. Right. And, and I will say that what was interesting to me, I went in with a few with no agenda, you know, for a planner to not be using a plan. Yeah, you know, it was huge. But, and I just let the year kind of take its course it was like being on a lazy
river. And but what was really interesting is almost immediately, I started reconnecting with people from my childhood, people from college, people from the first church that I ministered in, I found myself reading old journals, reading papers I'd written in college, it was that sense of coming back to I had served and spilled out all of who I was, and serve the mission of the assignment. And, like you, jack of all trades, you just do what you got to do to make it happen. And suddenly, I was
rediscovering who I am. So I think just re re establishing that foundation and grounding myself in in my community, my lifelong community. I wound up having lots of little things that our house with people. I had a tea for women from the first church that I served in. So just kind of grounding. Yeah, grim, but in a really fun way. And you know, it's funny for those of you that like, you know, Myers Briggs and stuff. I'm a D II. So our choleric
sanguine kind of person. And I have a sense that I was living in D land all the time. And it's like the other part of my personality. Woke back up, woke up. Yeah. And I'm just like, I'm thinking, looking to the next season, I just really sense that there's going to be a whole lot of fun. And that the the, I'm hoping to lead more with the I part of who I am, if that makes any sense.
Well, it's just a beautiful picture of that pie being filled. Through the sabbatical season, and if you would have done that a year ago, you would have been, like, maybe just just fractions of those guys, you know, being filled. And because God is just that's, that's just a testimony to add to God's, you know, power to restore, and renew us and to prepare us for the next thing. Like he's, like you said, you don't have all the details about what that's gonna look like. But
you're in a place now. I mean, you're in a place to better hear his voice. Yeah. To enjoy the moment. Yeah. Be in the present.There's so many things that have value that come out of that. I would just encourage our listeners, this doesn't have to be you know, when we're talking about retreat and Sabbath. It doesn't have to be. It's like it's got to be a year or it's not.
It doesn't have to be a year long journey where you move your family, right, it doesn't have to be that. No.
We're just talking about rest and renewal and retreat. And building that into your your your Yeah, your schedule your calendar. The pauses,. Stepping back, whether that's a block of time in a day of the week or a quarterly thing. A day or two of stepping
back or, or after a year. You know, I always think that it's good to look in kind of your week, and then maybe month and quarter and then a year, but well, how can you do that and change because we're talking about sustainability here, being being in a place where we can serve out of the well of all the good things that God has for us.
I think my big challenge right now is figuring out how to transfer just like you're saying, transfer this experience into the next season.I don't want to go back to functioning the way I function before.
I feel like this has been this has been something that I've been challenged with lately, in some from some podcasts I've been listening to and books I've been reading about looking at the season, you're in and saying, Okay, what is it about this season that I? What is my What does my posture need to be my approach to the season? And whatever the season, I think there's some degree of retreat and rest, strategic withdrawal that were earlier
that needs to be built in. Okay, so that was going to be one of my questions. What would you say to your younger self?
I actually I've thought a lot about this. Because I, I really hope to be just ongoing, like involved in helping young ministers get started. And I think sometimes, you know, you find yourself in a class or seminar, and they do the whole, like, write your eulogy exercise, like, begin with the end in mind, you know, kind of thing. But, you know, I think if I were to teach a class for a young, you know, up and coming ministers, I would want them to actually design a lifelong self care and growth
plan. And I would think, when you talk about budgeting, saving everything, actually building in your own sabbatical moments. So that as I mean, just in regards to sabbatical, I'm very few churches are going to offer that to someone or businesses, some will, yes, some will. But most don't true. And so you know, what, take that on yourself. And along with whatever your regular rituals are. Yeah. For self care, why not build in seasons of sabbatical to look forward
to. And just, I'd like to plant that seed and that concept in their minds, so that they can prepare for that, and because I know they'll benefit from it. And it's not impossible. It comes at a price. Right? but so does everything else. So if it's on your radar, and you can figure out how to do it, you should why not save for that? We're intentional about a lot of other things. But yeah, could this be something we could be
more intentional about? And I certainly believe, and what you're saying is so, so important for young people with ministry vision and a passion to get out there and do Let's build intentional time into our lives for the being peace. Which is Jesus invitation to His disciples coming off of a very busy time of ministry. I'm just thinking about the season they were in. john the baptist had died. They had a huge emotional impact on them. And then all this incredible opportunity for
ministry. Lots of amazing things happening. And what does Jesus say Come come away with me and read that back that's right on that and, and knowing. Knowing that, that's, that's, that's real life is real. It is real life and you know, for people, because I hear it a lot. "I could never I could never I could never." Well, it must be nice, you know? Or people say, "well, it must be
nice to take a break." But you know, having a sabbatical from leading doesn't mean that you have to stop working, you know, why not take a seasonal job? You know, take a seasonal job work at Target or Starbucks or something. There's a weight that comes with leadership. And I think we, you know, we develop a lot of skills over time. And hopefully, as we mature, the Lord gives us wisdom. Yeah, about how to serve people. And so those are things we can
learn. But then the other piece that we have to develop is the ability to bear the weight of leading. And I think that's really what the season was, for me. It was a season where I was able to set the weight down. And, and really rest. So it's important, it's important to, especially for those of us that are always in some kind of leadership role.
The story is still being written. So you're coming out of the sabbatical season. Nicely bookended by these Hawaii trip.
It's crazy. I've never been to Hawaii in my life. And now I've been there twice. Yeah.
So you've inspired me.
Well, and I will say, the first the first trip, I wanted to, like, just lay down the whole time, right. Like, and I found out, you don't maybe you don't know this, you can actually put a lounge chair in a swimming pool. They do that? No, I and I just like, went to Hawaii and lay down, right. And this trip was so exciting to plan. And it was thrilling to instead of laying down in the pool, which I think I did that
one day. But my highlight was a three hour canopy tour up in the mountains, doing 1100 feet, zip lines, and feeling so alive and free and fully rejuvenated. And I just said thank you. Thank you. I want to run the distance with him and so um, it's just such an amazing adventure.
And it's okay, if in the beginning, you just want to flop down.
Bread tastes really good.
Then to see on the other side of that, yeah. An excitement. Adventure. A Aries reengagement engagement. Yeah, yeah. That is what the Lord does.
Yeah, this is so it's still so fresh for me. Maybe we'll talk in another year. Yes. Okay. Because I really have to process all of this, and spend time figuring out what all the insights are. But I can definitely see, there was a season of just total rest, there was the physical body that needed to rest and emotional emotions. And then I can remember my spirit's spark of joy returning. And then my mind
clicked on. And suddenly, I was thinking about things and making plans and, and all along the way reconnecting with people, and then building new relationships in a new environment. Those human relationships. I went from, you know, wanting to sit in the chair. Yeah. With my puppy to organizing things with groups of people. So yeah, so there's agement reengagement
Yeah. I love that. Well, we will have to talk again. And it's it's exciting, just to kind of now be in a place where we can kind of track with you a little little easier than when we were on the globe. Yes. And looking forward to hearing how this story unfolds for you guys. So yeah, say hi to Dwight. I sure, Will. And Kenan. Yeah, sounds great. Thanks again, for joining me.
This is great. Appreciate just the time to process. it's like free coaching.
If your transition is anything like mine, or Jennifer's you probably have a lot invested and the thought of walking away onto a blank canvas may sound terrifying. At times leaders are called upon to take big risks, leaps of faith into the unknown. And it's in those times that we can feel most alone and misunderstood. What's the invitation from God not just in the leaving but accepting his invitation to start painting on a new canvas? Is God highlighting a pause? Or some
shift for you? Is he fitting you for something new? A coach is a trained professional who knows how to come alongside, ask the right questions and work with you to formulate a growth plan. During seasons of transition. Book a discovery call with me at encompass life coaching.com. If you're if you're interested to learn more about how working with a coach can be one of the best strategic decisions you can make. Thanks for joining me today everyone for this episode of navigate. I've been your host
Tim Austin. If this has been helpful to you, would you mind rating this podcast? Write us a review share on social media. And of course, you can always subscribe so that you're sure to get in on the next episode. I'll catch you next time.