How do you stay when you'd rather just leave? Hey, everybody, thanks for tuning in to Navigate. I'm your host, Tim Austin. And today I'll be talking with Jennifer Davis. Jennifer is a former college classmate of mine who's been navigating a major transition season. She's a wife, a mom and a pastor within the Assemblies
of God movement. So thanks for listening in to part one of my conversation with Jennifer Davis as she tells her story, and the process, she went through the process of staying well, when life and ministry seems to be spinning out of control. Welcome, everybody to Navigate podcast. I'm your host, Tim Austin, and hey, I'm just really, really excited to have a friend and a former classmates with me today. We don't really know what we're going to be
talking about. This is kind of just we'll see how it evolves. Right. That's right. But some aspects of transition, I'm sure and how that has impacted you. But let's first let me tell everybody who you are. I have with me, Jennifer Davis. And I said, it's still hard for me to put that last name on there because from our university days, if it was Gregory. So Jennifer Davis is a college friend. And we asked we went to university together and added at a small university called
Bethany University. Beautiful, beautiful place. And so we do go way back. But you know, as it as it usually happens, when you graduate, everybody scatters to the wind and it's hard to stay in touch.
Well, we were pre internet days. We didn't have email, we have cell phones, right. You know, we had to actually write letters, which was not my forte.
We were off the grid. But that was a good thing. I really realized that there's there was a lot of value in that.
And that's for another podcast. You could have a whole podcast just on that transition.
Yeah, for sure. So but we did all scatter and channel challenging this to stay in touch. But from time to time, we would connect during our furlough years and things like that when we were back from overseas. But it's been really cool, because now you have moved closer to us. Yes. Tell us about this.
Well, I would say first of all, it's just so exciting to be here with you. And I think it's interesting that your transition and our transition, my family's transition intersected Yeah, and so I just continuously saying at home. I just feel so fortunate that this season in life, you know, almost 30 years after college, that we would be able to have close friends, you know, literally down the street. It's wonderful. Yeah, yeah. It's like a gift. You are on the other
side of the world. So I was in Northern California, San Francisco Bay Area the entire time in local church ministry. Okay. pastoral ministry, your pastor can have a pastor, if he's telling us if God and I have always served in associate pastor roles in in three different churches in Northern California. Actually, I should stop saying Northern California, just the San Francisco Bay Area. And and so you guys would come home to that area, we'd be able to reconnect you and that was
great. But that's where I've spent all my posts-Bethany days, in Northern California.
Cool. And so now you've moved closer.
So we live in the Folsom Sacramento region.
Yeah. Wow. So it was you were you were And it's been a year. Almost exactly a year that my family made a decision that ushered in my big transition. I know that transitioning from a really long season of pastoral ministry. that's what we're going to talk about today, transitions. And, I actually resigned my pos tion. I was an Executive Pas or at Valley Christian Cen er in Dublin. And we pre Yes. And life and in route kind of roots, community, and all
ared for that transition. And my last Sunday was the end of une. And we said goodbye. to peo le that we had lived with and labored with and partner wit for years and years and clo e the door on it. Just a rea ly amazing chapter of life and ministry and entered into my tra sition season and actually our is a family. that in one one area. So that's big.
Yeah, it was, it was huge. We actually had lived, the area we were in is called the tri Valley area. And we'd lived there for about 16 years. And just a wonderful community of churches in that area, all different denominations. pastors have relationships with each other, we've done a lot of things. Our church would partner with a lot of other local churches. I mean, use the word roots, our root system was definitely mature. Yeah. And this was a people we loved a
place we loved. And, you know, just to back up a little bit, you know, every everyone that faces some kind of transition, right? Um, it's either transition that we initiate ourselves, right. Or sometimes the transition is we're invited into a transition. Yeah, knock down the stairs, transitions. You know, this was one of those seasons, that was so, so unusual
for me. And in that we were in a place that we loved, we were in a place that we'd fought for we are in a place that had become healthy, and just just had probably one of the most fruitful, peaceful seasons. Yeah. And what I began to sense was the Lord's invitation to make a transition. Okay. And, you know, the season just prior to that was a little bit more challenging. And it would have been, I don't know, easier, maybe. The the temptation to step out, yeah. The battle?
Yeah. But sometimes leadership. Leadership is a joy. Right? leadership is sometimes I don't know, I'm just seeing a UFC fight, you know, in my head, you know, sometimes it's, you know, takes its toll on us, you know, those of us that lead in whatever area you lead in, whether it's business or in a church, or in your home, there are seasons that are more
difficult than others. And so I had this really intense difficult Battlezone kind of season, followed by a wonderful season where we got to see the fruit of all that labor.
And your transition wasn't a reaction to a really hard fight or battle or discouragement. Now, it was coming out of that, but then into a really great season.
A really great season. And, you know, it was, it was so peaceful It was so there was such a sense of such a
So, I want to get back to this. How do you sense of what's the word, um, we'll just, I'll just stick with peace, that my family actually made a move during that time and purchased a new home. And we thought, really, at that point, that we would be sticking around for a long time. It's like, Hey, this is what we've worked so hard, faced all these challenges. We, you know, did all this work. Now we can, you know, kind of sit back and now we get to continue building from this point. But something
shifted in me. And, you know, people have asked me about this, like, how did you know how did you know it was time to step away? And I think, I think one of the biggest challenges in in leadership is to know and I'll focus in on the church, in my experience, is to know is to know your season, to know what season you're in and to know, I think too often because we don't understand the season that we're in, yeah, we leave too early, or
we stay too long, right? And what I was beginning to understand, just from my time with the Lord and kind of paying attention To what I'm seeing all around me was that, that my season and my, and my assignment in that particular church was actually coming to a close. And it kind of took me off guard at first I thought, wow, am I just experiencing a great honeymoon is like is the honeymoon coming to a close with of this new, peaceful season? So I just had to pray a lot. Talk to my
husband a lot. I'm just processing. Yeah, what was actually happening. And what I realized was, what I had been called to do, was done, it felt a little bit like graduating, you know, like when we were know, when it's time to go? How to discern all of that. God's Bethany together. I remember that last semester. So much anticipation and excitement about the future. But like it, you know, there was also a, kind of a, it was bittersweet. You
know, we love this place. We love our friends, but it was time to pull up roots. voice in that. God's will in that. But going back to when it's hard. How do you discern? What are some processes what were helpful for you? Because it is, like you said, a temptation to just want to escape? To not create a space not give space for processing that hard season and then making a decision based on really, you know, the confidence of, Okay, this is this is God's Will. So how do
you how do when it's hard? How do you stay? How do you stay?
Yeah, let me go back. And if I, if I start twitching, you'll just No, no, you know what, honestly, it was, I think it's important to know that you are in the right place. Period, right, we have to know that. At least as believers, we have to know that this is my sight. God's assigned me to this. And, and so I'm gonna stick with this until he says, Let's do something different. You know, I think I'm just
really seeking. My mindset is my theology is that we're partnering, we're partnering with the Holy Spirit in ministry. So if he asks us to do something puts us in a situation and it's challenging. You know, there's that there's the temptation to walk away when it's difficult. If you don't know that, you know that, you know, this is what you're called to do. Yeah. So I will say I had a deep sense of vision, and a
sense of responsibility. This, I think everyone hears about from the Lord about their design assignment differently. But the way that I have discerned, the way I discern, when the Lord is calling me to do something is I will have a vision for it, and a sense of responsibility that this is what I am supposed to be doing. So I had that. So there was, you know, a lot of stress, misalignments, just, you know, just organizational challenges
that we're facing every day. And I really had to, I had to go into that, that portion that season, talked about knowing our seasons, almost with a battlefield mindset. Now, we're not battling the people. But you know, we wrestle not against
flesh and blood, right? Yeah, but against principalities, powers, etc. So there are, you know, the challenges of just humans working with other humans, personalities, you know, etc. Yeah, um, but then you know, that there's, there's an actual resistance coming against you and everything that you're trying to do to bring, order and build a kingdom culture. In this church environment. There's
great resistance. So my mindset became, I've never served in the military, but I felt almost like a soldier during that season. And I found that I had to fight I had to fight to carry peace. And so what that meant for me personally, was getting up earlier and earlier and earlier. So my days would start at 4am. And what I found was, every day, I needed to sit in the Lord's presence. I needed to worship him. It was not formulaic for
me. Some days, I literally was sitting in my, you know, my prayer chair, just soaking in his presence and listening to worship. Some days, I was devouring scripture, some, but I had to do something to connect to my heart, and align myself with the Lord every day so that I could keep his mindset and carry his peace. And I kind of I had to bathe myself in his presence every day. Yeah, but, but that also meant every morning, I would exercise every
morning. And there was that sense of the self care of stress relief in a healthy manner. And so I think I probably was my healthiest during that during that season. Okay, because, you know, you pressed on all sides. And it drove me. It was a great season of growth. It was a difficult season. But it it was a great season of growth, because it really drove me to seek the Lord as my source for wisdom, for peace, and then that, that working out every
morning, I can remember. I'm like learning to do like a forearm plank, you know, and holding it longer and longer and longer and longer. And there was really something to that daily discipline of, if I can hold this forearm plank for a minute. This is hard. Yeah, I can face what I'm going to face today. Right. Yeah. And so what was so what was I motivated by in that, with that morning, time to drive me to all of that discipline? I would leave the house about 730? So it took, yeah, it took me
hours. Yeah. To prepare to leave. I knew it was absolut ly essential that I kept a p aceful I needed to carry the ast piece. Yeah, I felt that it as every place, I'd put my foot n that campus, we had a 49 acre ampus, I knew I was carrying the Lord's peace into a chaotic situ tion.
He gave you confidence in moving out? Yes, those hours in the morning, it did for you.
Well, and I will say just, you know, for vulnerability with you and whoever's listening to this, that I was really concerned that given the immense pressure and the challenging conversations and everything, I was really concerned about losing self control during the course of the day, yeah. And I, you know, as ministers, we don't take the same oath that physicians do, we probably should "first do no harm." But I knew the pressure that I was under. And the last thing that I wanted was to have
my flesh come out. And you know, I'm from the East Bay Area. And I didn't want to go east bay on somebody, because they, you know, stressed me out or cross me the wrong way. And so the only way that I could, or one way that I could be more assured that wouldn't happen was to spend that time processing all my stuff. So that later in the day, somebody else's issue didn't trigger my issue, you
Yeah. It's just brings up a podcast, I was know? listened to Ruth Haley Barton has a great podcast called Strengthen the Soul of Your
Leadership. And I believe it was yesterday when I was listening to it on one of her episodes, talking about strategic withdraw, like looking at that from, you know, we often think with withdrawl as not being you know, if we just use it in certain contexts, we're not really thinking of us as strategic, but because you mentioned kind of the the battle from a military kind of perspective. Yes. Strategic withdrawal is very important.
And she was talking about it in the context of retreat, you know, being pro long retreats a few days or a week, month or even like in in that sense, but I think even those morning times for you, yes. Seems like they were strategic withdraw, absolutely. set back. Yes. And to rethink and re-strategize and be read.
And you know, I'm talking about in very intense manner, and it was intense, though, because when you when you are working in an environment that's facing any kind of crisis, it changes the rules a little bit, you know, it. Or, you know, there's ebbs and flows in church life and organizational life. Right. And, you know, in high stress times, you know, your approach has to be different the way that I had to live in that season. And that I mean, that went on for a couple years. It was not
sustainable. Yeah, and probably contributed to who I am today. I feel grateful for that season. They're there. If I had to have more of a survivalist mentality and really prioritize, I had to prioritize my relationship with the Lord, am I really shaping my family, and then my relationship with the church in schools that I served, and, and during that season of life, I said no to like everything else, you know, invitations for social events.
And yeah, and I just don't, I don't think that's healthy as a way of life. But I can say that coming through that season, was able to do some of the most, you know, fruitful work probably of my entire ministry. And it my relationship, my family details, my husband, we have one son with my son, we really kind of cocoon together. But, um, but I don't think it's healthy to work that way for prolonged periods of time. And unfortunately, I think some people do approach all of
life and all of ministry. Yeah, I'm in that battle with that battlefield mindset. Right. My son and I were just talking about that how workaholism you know, isn't a virtue, and, you know, something to aspire to. And yet, in our culture, even our Christian culture so often we were very can be very performance based.
Yeah, there's, there's so many things that can can steer us off course. Like, just the whole people pleasing approach. And I'm here to serve and, and we just go, go go. Yeah, don't run, you know, in ourselves empty. Yeah. You know, and so, yeah, so sustainability. Yeah. That whole long term sustainability. Yes. Yeah.
Well, adrenaline. You know, we can get really addicted to adrenaline. And, there is almost a high, I mean, I can remember, like, the night before the next day, I'd get, you know, my phone would remind me, you have 14 meetings tomorrow, you know, and life just, I ran at such a clip that, I think that's why those my morning time was so grounding for me, because, there's just an
adrenaline that you fly on. And grounding myself in the Lord's presence, and even exercising you have an endorphin rush, which is very healthy, you know. But I could see how you just become very addicted to that pace. Yes.
Right. But for you to step back in those mourning times, and to just recenter refocus on and I think that there's a lot around, for me personally, when I'm in those kinds of seasons, and I step back, and for me, it might look like we live in the mountains, so getting out in nature and walking my dog in the woods or whatever. But it takes that for me to kind of re center myself in God's purpose. And who I am
in him. And not the, on one side the criticisms or the accolades on the other side, or whatever I'm getting or receiving from people. Who I Am. Yeah, and that and so, so that brings us into a place of where we are able to serve. Out of that source rather than, you know, rather than just all the time, like you said adrenaline, but long term. Well, okay, so um, so that's why I wanted to go back there to that hard place and how that how that, you know, how you stayed?
And made that decision to stay. And it sounds like, I mean, what I'm hearing is that that was a big part. Just Just being able to, to increase your time with the Lord just a really sent on him having conversations. Were there any other things like key conversations you had with people? Were there any pivotal points that? Well, number one, or you how close Did you get to saying, I'm out of here, and were there any pivotal points there, like conversations or anything that?
I can say that, um, there was a point where I felt like, maybe the work that I was doing was futile. And probably any any of us any leader that's, you know, yet to experience a breakthrough has probably asked themselves the same questions. And, you know, there was a point where I thought, well, let's just leave it at that. But it, it felt like maybe this is futile, maybe maybe the change that we're working for, isn't going to happen, maybe, you know, maybe my labor here is in vain, you
know. And, um, and so I think primarily, most of my conversations, were probably with my husband, and we would we would talk together and process together. And I think I am trying to remember, you know, I blacked it all out, and I'm just kidding. I, I can remember getting to the point when it just, it was just, you know, it's just before the dawn. And we were very much prepared to step away. It was like, you know, this isn't, this is not sustainable. And things aren't
gonna change. Now I realize, well, I was probably discouraged and tired...really tired. And, I can remember, clearly, some decisions were made - the board made some decisions. And suddenly, everything snapped into place, you know, everything wasn't fixed or mature, but the alignment came. And it was like, a complete shift in the atmosphere. I can still remember
where I was. I attended a meeting, there was a group of us all the senior leaders, key people were in a room together, we had to make some more difficult decisions. But what was different about this moment, his alignment - I don't go to the chiropractor. Do you have a chiropractor? I know, I don't. I have friends. Like they swear by it, right? Yeah. But they're like, Oh, I had a problem. I went to the chiropractor, and now I'm back in alignment,
right? So there was alignment, organizationally, and in the spirit. And I think that alignment in the Spirit came first. And then you make the organizational decisions to match that. And I remember sitting in this room, and you know, suddenly, it was like, from the Wizard of Oz, and remember, everything was black and white. And then she opens the door, everything's in color. And suddenly, there was oxygen in the room. I mean, it was
completely different. And I called Dwight, my husband and said, Honey, it's not time to leave. And I've told friends that I felt like the Lord physically put a new coat on me. It was like he put a new garment on me. And it was his grace for the remainder of that season. Yeah. And I went from feeling like, maybe this is futile. Just seeing the break through. And really understanding that my assignment wasn't over. You k ow, and even facing some things
that I wasn't at all. intere ted in doing, you know, three days before, to knowing I n w have vision and a sense of re ponsibility. And it was the in he enabling, empowering grace that came from God. And t at's what He does for s, he calls us to something mpowers us to do it. Yeah. It w s so powerful.
Yeah. And you gave time for that shift to happ n. I think that's really key when we're going through big transition seasons, or hings that look like a big sh ft in life or ministry, or ju t stressful times. That k nd of tempt us to flee. There's a lot to be said right about erseverance, but just take th time to endure, to really find ways to create space to he r God's voice in that yes. And to to make a decision based n that rather than the moment.
So because of that, so that from that moment on, really experienced what I said at the beginning of the talk was that it was the season of peace. And it was amazing. And I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful, I didn't leave, I'm so grateful that I didn't leave. Because even this week, I was exchanging emails with my former lead pastor, and probably our key elder, and we were emailing each other back and forth this week. And I'm, my relationships are intact. Yeah, um, which is
what it's really about. It's, we're the family of God. And, you know, people say, Oh, the churches in a business are both the churches of business, you know, it's you, there's that tension, right. But, um, I think, because the Lord helped us stay when it was difficult.
He developed, he was able to crush, you know, what I mean, crush, allow the crushing to happen, but and develop, but then there was, I just listened to Christine Caine talk about this, she talked about being willing to go into the darkroom and be developed. And when there's a crushing you crush or olives, right? There's all of
oil you crush. How do you get new wine, you know, you crushed the grapes, you know, and it's that crushing that then she was talking about how the crushing produces or makes way for the anointing to come. And it's the anointing that breaks the yoke in people's lives. I know, I was like, I listened to it over and over again, I still can't say like, she said, You can listen to her yourself. But, um, if I hadn't continued to yield in that process. I wouldn't have
grown. You know, it was hard. It was really hard, right.
And those relationships were preserved and strengthened. And I think that's what we see. So often when we when we endure through hard seasons with coworkers. Yeah, teammates, colleagues. Fellow journeyers in ministry, we, those bonds of relationship just are strengthened. And so I just, we just, you know, have kind of the same experience. So we've been back from back in the states for three years now after
living in serving in Turkey. But we just got back from a trip to Turkey and those relationships, because we left Well, yeah, that's the bar. And God gave a lot of grace through that process, because we were able to leave well, we can go back and just there, the bridge is still intact, and it's healthy. And it's good. And it's actually life giving. And I think that's it, as far as it depends on you.
I know that, you know, we, you know, someone you know, I was having a conversation with someone the other day about, you know, and they said, well, when you leave, leave in such a way so that you can always come back. And that's true. If as far as it depends on you. We want to do that right. in some contexts. It's not always possible, but but that's a good approach. Yeah, thinking that way because you're valuing relationship above the mess.
I just I remember watching Walking around the campus in those months that followed, and experiencing the peace, the peace time versus wartime right and still lots to do lots of culture shaping in that next year, it was really essential. And But one day, I, I realized that the coat was coming off, it was like, almost like when you've got your winter jacket on, and then you go outside and you realize, Oh, it's warm, I don't need this
anymore. And you stop even taki g the jacket in the car just n case you need it, because y u know you're not going to n ed it. And I realized the grace as lifting.
I love to hear Jennifer talk about the place in transition when alignment finally came. And with that alignment came a renewed sense of hope and God's grace to finish well, as in Jennifer's case, the grace for enduring a difficult season may eventually lift, but it never lifts completely. His grace is always there to see us through the next
season. And rather than signing off in my usual way, today, I'd like to read this prayer by Mary Mazeroski, which just might help you lean into God's grace, the grace he has for you. In this particular moment, in this transition season. I recommended as a regular practice, because oftentimes during transition seasons, we can come with a defensive posture, we can come with a lot of pent up frustration, and an agenda before we even hit the ground
running. And it's time like the during times like these when we need to pause and step back and recenter ourselves in God's grace. So let me just read this prayer to you as a way to close today. Welcome, welcome. Welcome. I welcome everything that comes to me in this moment, because I know it is for my healing. I welcome all thoughts, feelings, emotions, persons, situations, and conditions. I let go of my desire for security. I let go of my desire for approval, I let go of my
desire for control. I let go of my desire to change any situation, condition, person, or myself. I open to the love and presence of God and the healing action and grace within. Thanks so much for joining me today for this episode of navigate. I've been your host Tim Austin and if this has been helpful to you, would you mind rating the podcast writing a review and
sharing on social media. And of course, you can always subscribe so that you're sure to get in on the next episode, and I'll see you next time.