Welcome to navigate. I'm Tim Austin. And this is the podcast designed to take the guesswork out of transition. Whether you have a transition looming in your future or you're trying to make sense out of a past or current transition, this show is for you. Each episode, we're going to introduce strategies and tools that individuals and teams can use to effectively navigate seasons of change. At navigate, we're all about leveraging the challenges of change for optimal growth. So welcome to episode
one. On this 14th day of February, Happy Valentine's day everyone. And I think this is very fitting my very first guest on this podcast is none other than my wife, Eve Austin. In addition to being the love of my life for 28 years, she's my best friend, and partner in all things transition. Eve is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist here in Northern California where she resides with her family. She enjoyed 20 years in Tajikistan and Turkey
from 1996 to 2016. And during that time, she was a mom, missionary, educator, entrepreneur, and counselor for missionaries, refugees, and survivors of human trafficking. Now we have a little competition going on in our family related to our travels around the globe, and who has the most stamps in their passport. Now, I won't say who's winning, cuz that could stir up the pot a little bit.
But let me just tell you that currently, the number of stamps and Eve's passport equals the number of birthdays she has celebrated to I'll leave the guesswork up to you. But she will say her great, greatest prize is her amazing family and I couldn't agree with her more. We have three amazing kids, one son in law and one beautiful grandson named valor. In this conversation, we'll be painting a broad picture of transition, and setting the stage for future conversations. On this podcast.
We'll be drawing from our own personal experiences, as well as the ongoing work that we do in supporting and cheering other people on through transition seasons. So with no further ado, let's dive into my conversation with Eve Austin. Welcome Eve and Happy Valentine's Day. Thank you Happy Valentine's Day. Yeah. So here we are. We just had we just finished our buy one get one Valentine Starbucks coffees. And now we're off and running with this first episode of our
navigate podcast. We're also celebrating 28 years of marriage together. And I don't let me ask you how have you managed all these years? Well, I don't know. It's it's been rough. Well, I want to say say to our listeners, each should get the bravery award for volunteering to be my very first guest on this show. If it flops, we're in this together. Right, right. As
always, yeah. So you know, actually, you have been a big inspiration ever since you planted the seed and a conversation that we had a few months ago. I believe you you prefaced the conversation that we had with something like don't be upset but I think you should do a podcast. And I don't know if I was feeling extra stress that day or something that you that you felt you should preface that with with that statement. But I'm wondering what how you were you expecting me to respond?
Well, I think I just didn't want you to think I was adding one more thing to the to do list. It was just a a brainstorming. Put a feather in your cap kind of idea at that time. So I hoped he would take it that way.
Uh huh. Yes. And I think I I probably didn't come off as sounding super excited about it at that time. But as I mulled it over, I was getting more and more excited about it thinking about the ideas and the possibilities for this podcast with a transition theme and and then we came up with the name together navigate very, very appropriate for this podcast that we are on a journey together. We are fellow transitioners trying to navigate
difficult transitions. So what caused you to initially see the need for a podcast like this?
Well, up podcast connects ideas and resources to the people who can benefit from them. And I know you have a lot of great ideas yourself. And I just feel like we know a lot of people scattered all across the globe, who have great ideas and insights to share that people again, scattered all across the globe can benefit from, so why not connect the two?
Yeah, so So kind of a place where we can all gather, give feedback input. Talk about strategies and ideas for how to succeed at this tricky thing of navigating transitions. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, and that's my motivation, for me, personally, has been through through my relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, and all the experiences, he's brought us through me through, and the books I've read, and just insightful conversations with friends, colleagues, coaches, and mentors, all of
this. And through through challenging transitions in my life, all of this kind of has been schooling me to see transitions or to view transitions through the lens of, of, I guess, you could say, growth and creativity rather than simply an obstacle to get through or a chaotic season that I have to somehow manage. And so we want to be intentional about transition. And that's what this podcast is about being trans. Intentional through our
transition seasons. Yeah, so in these podcast episodes, we'll be talking about transitions from three different viewpoints or angles. Or I guess you could say, these are kind of the the types of transition that we go through. Number one being planned prob planned proactive transitions. In other words, we generally have time we're intentionally making this move this decision, this step in a different direction, and we have time to plan and be intentional
and proactive about it. Those aren't always we don't always have that luxury. And so there's another area of transition that is all about dealing with unplanned or reactive kinds of transitions. We like to call them rug pulled out transitions. Maybe it's a crisis or moment and, and of course, you and I have seen a lot of this living overseas and in turbulent places, political things going
on and, and all of that. Tell me a little bit about how you have seen some of those and unplanned or reactive transitions played out throughout our season of life and work?
Well, one example that comes to mind is something we've dealt with a number of times, we have a lot of friends dealing with it right now where the country you live in, doesn't extend your visa, or the process changes, the rules change, the laws change. So then you're you're left to figure it out, sorted out, sometimes you have to leave the country to renew a visa or find another visa platform, those kinds of things.
And that always throws throws us threw us into a tailspin, because the timeframe you had planned now is interrupted, and you're left to figure figure something else out sometimes in a hurry. So that's definitely an unplanned or reactive kind of crisis. Kind of transition,
for sure, for sure. And I'm also thinking about medical emergencies as well, when we were living overseas and how sometimes those caught us by surprise and, and Quick, quick transitions happened to because of that as well. Where very little to no time to plan and you just had to react in the moment kind of so
the plan and the unplanned. But then you also have this third component component of internal transitions, which which really is dealing with the internal component that processing, clarifying core values mean, you may not be making a geographical move, or any big career shift or anything like that. But there seems to be a you're in a season of internal processing. Yeah, it could be just trying to capture insights, clarifying core values, those kinds of things.
So we're kind of looking at that this the remainder of time remainder of our time today in our conversation, just kind of looking at transition from those different angles. What do you see is how these three pieces of transition? How do you see these relating to each other? Is it always just one that we're going through? Or could it be a combination of, of two or three of them? Or?
Well, I think It usually starts out as one more than the other, like the example that we just talked about with a visa issue where your visa is not being renewed, then you're gonna have to figure out another visa option. So that starts as unplanned or reactive transition. And then you move it into hopefully, what is more of a planned or proactive? Like, what are the options? You have to brainstorm what's going to be some next steps? And you can move more into that planned and
proactive? And I think the internal goes with both? Definitely both and on that, because whatever, however, it starts out, planned or unplanned, there's going to be an internal shift that has to happen to accommodate either one.
Yeah, good. So an internal shift. So in these areas of transition, what are some of the reasons that you've seen, or, or ways that you've seen people get stuck, or at least feel stuck during difficult transitions?
I kind of feel like transition can be foggy, it can feel like we lack clarity, clarity of thought, clarity of heart. And I'm just thinking of the roads, the highway, these winter storms that we've had recently, you can be driving along a pretty clear road, and then drive into some pretty thick fog. And so of course, you're going to make some adjustments, you're going to slow down your speed, turn on your headlights if they weren't on, and the and just take Yeah, take it slow and be more alert.
So in the fog, you do want to keep moving. But you want to proceed with caution, and just be more aware of what's around you. And in in transition. It's like that, too. If I were to drive into some fog out on the highway and just slam on my brakes, because oh, it's foggy and I can't I can't move forward, then that would be very dangerous, because I'm going to get rear ended by another car going 65 miles an hour. So that that's Yeah, we don't want to do
that. But it does feel like sometimes that's the thing to do in transition is just throw on the brakes put on the brakes. And because we don't know what, what's ahead, and it's sort of counterintuitive, but moving through the transition moving through the fog helps us to not feel stuck sometimes.
Yeah, your example of the roads here in the mountains of northern California. I also thought about the, the wind Enos of the roads, the switchbacks you know where you can't see what's ahead of you until you're right. Right upon the turn. And a lot of times transitions are like that to where you can't you, you know, you're you're not able to see what's what's next, you
know? And is this switchback gonna help me climb and move forward and gain momentum or take me backward, you know, take me down the down the hill instead of up where I want to go. So there's and so that there's kind of the fear factor, I think, as well sometimes in in these transition, difficult transition seasons. What's next? So how, how do you determine? And this can be just either personally or how you've, you've helped people going through
transition? How do you determine what's needed to successfully successfully navigate those changes?
Well, you know, me, and I love planning, and I love being organized. And some people might say, to a fault, I like to be organized and be planned for the future. So with a planned or proactive transition, I would say, to successfully navigate it, you really want to start about a year out and just brainstorm what you hope it might look like. And what you hope might be ahead and I say the word hope because it's, I think that's an important part of it. Be hopeful about what you
want it to look like. And we know it's not going to look exactly like what we hoped for and planned for. But it's just really good to have that picture in mind. So that's just beginning with the end in mind and then just break that up into bite sized pieces. So you're working towards that end, that hopeful End Of course. It's an unplanned or reactive transition where the rug gets pulled out. You don't have that luxury on
the front end. But as soon as you can catch your breath, as soon as you have a moment, it's really good to stop and do the same thing where you picture what hopefully this is going to look like. Even though it feels nuts, Ben, we got totally blindsided, or we had no idea this was coming. What hopefully is ahead, and what kind of good things might the Lord have in store for us, even though we have no clue or feels like we just have no clue about what
that might be. So again, the hope the word hope is in there, because if that's woven in, then our heart can start to hope for the good things that our head, if hope isn't woven in to the process, then we can start to despair and feel hopeless, be discouraged. All kinds of negative downward spirals can happen.
Yeah, I love that theme of hope that you're saying needs to run through whether it's a planned transition or an unplanned transition, that piece of, of being hopeful needs to be a component of the transition. And and what how does that look like when some people might be listening today and say, That's, wow, that's a long time out one year, at least for plan transition one year out, start brainstorming, start talking
about it. How does that actually look, say your years somewhere in Zambia, and you're, you know, you're getting ready, you know, in a year's time you're going to be returning to your home country? Or, you know, and how does that look to actually to actually do that?
Well, you know, how do you eat an elephant, one bite at a time. And a move from Zambia back to the States, for instance, would be huge. So that if you just think of that task as one big thing that needs to be done, then that's too
overwhelming for most of us. So again, just beginning with the end in mind is, okay, we're going to this is going to happen on this date, or Around this time, and working backwards from that what all needs to happen between now and then there's the logistical pieces of it the actual physical move, and where we're going to land what it's going to look like on the other side, and then all the the people transitions all the, you know, heart issue, parts of the transition course we know
anything is going to affect us spiritually, emotionally, mentally and physically. So we want to look at it from all angles.
Yeah, and I know for me, when, when we started talking about a big transition, returning to the States, from our time in Turkey, I began to, to write a lot and writing which actually began turned into a blog. But I wasn't that well, it really wasn't the initial thing I just started writing. And really that processing piece for me. And I guess that goes back to the internal part of transition. For me, that was really helpful as well doing that way in advance of our actual move, just to a place to
process some of that. And I know that as I did, some of those conversations would come out, as we talked about our transition, the hope, would would surface at times, you know, when I wrote about things and began to think and, and mull over that transition. So yeah, that's really good. I love that theme of hope. let's shift gears and talk about expectations. Because this ties into that what you were talking about in terms of planning for a transition and
working through that. This is an area expectations is an area that you've I know that you've researched and taught about in our tools for transitions workshops that we do, What part do expectations play when we're processing change and moving from one thing to the next?
Well, I think they play a big role in how the outcome is going to look. Because the expectations that we have, whether they're met or unmet, really is gonna Yeah, it's like the setting the temperature gauge, let's say on the whole thing, because we need, we need to know that certain things are in place or not. It's actually okay, as long as we know that, for instance, we're going to fly into an airport in a new city, and nobody's going to be there to
pick us up. But that's okay if we know that because we know we're going to take a taxi To a guesthouse, for instance, but not knowing and getting to that airport and not knowing what's next. Or assuming that someone's picking us up, and then nobody's there, those can lead those kinds of things. I mean, that's a sort of a silly example. But the disappointments can be so
real. And then, of course, when it comes to life, ministry, career family, bigger things, you know, the expectations are bigger, the disappointments that are going to be bigger, and or the the positive outcomes, if we're, we're honest about our expectations and have good conversations around it, then we can keep the expectations realistic, and not have them set sky high. And also not have them just set at nothing. So something that's more of a mid range balanced.
Good. Yeah. expectations. Yeah,
that makes sense. So what would you say to a family, for example, they have young children? And how does that look like talking about expectations with your kids? Can you talk about expectations with a two year old, for example? or How old are they need to be? And yeah,
yeah, it might be kind of hard with a two year old depending on their verbal abilities. But, um, I think definitely with a school aged kid, so 456, and on up from there, because they're going to be able to communicate things around the school they might attend, or the friends that they're hoping to have, or how they might want to set up their room or if they're going to share a room with a brother or
sister. Just all kinds of things, that even silly thing are things that we won't think of as adults, they might seem silly, but then they, the kid will tell us that something's important through that conversation. And then we can either set the expectation more realistically by telling them, no, actually, you can't take your bike, because it's such a big city. And it's dangerous to
ride bikes there. But you can take your skateboard because I found a skateboard park that's going to be near our home, and I'll be able to take you a skateboard park for outdoor fun. So things that we can we can help kids to start to picture what their new life might be like. And if we don't know, or if the kids ask questions that we can't answer, then we can contact people on the other end at the, you know, City of destination as ask those
questions. So it'll just open up a conversation that's going to be probably helpful all around for the family.
Yeah, good. So what about, say more about dealing with unmet expectations or unrealistic expectations? How do you deal with those? When you're working through a transition?
Well, I think a conversation is the best way to deal with them. Just First of all, it's the the awareness at a personal level of how my expectations weren't realistic, and in what ways and just coming to terms with that, like you said, You like to write, I like to journal as well. We can pour that out in prayer, we can have a conversation with a trusted person. So there's a lot of ways to build in that awareness and to really come to grips with on
a personal level. And then if it is, if it doesn't need to go to a wider circle of maybe our ministry team, or people we work with, or the the whole family, then we can plan a time that's going to be good for a conversation around that. Again, it's just being authentic with what we had hoped for, and how things have looked instead and how that's been discouraging, or what, yeah, just owning our feelings around the unmet
expectation. And then part of that conversation, or maybe the next conversation can be resetting. So it's just a rethink it reset it give the given a realistic expectation now in view, so we can move towards that and find that find the balance, you know, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's good. Yeah, expectations can be a tricky part. And I know that you've, you've also talked about and and taught about how unmet expectation, unmet expectations over a period of time can lead to issues and problems. Tell me more about that.
Yeah, there's a whole book written about it. It's called expectations and burnout, Annenberg and bliss are the authors of that book. And I really like it. Because there, there was research at the outset of it. And then the research was was written into the book itself. And it's just women from all over the planet that spoke to specific unmet expectations or some situation of overseas life. That is, yeah, they're the kinds of things that everybody has dealt with at some point in
time. So it's nice to read things like that and realize, Oh, I'm not the only one who thought that or said that or hoped for that as well. And so that kind of normalizes the unmet expectations piece of overseas life. But what what you had mentioned, is that discrepancy or gap really, that's created between the expectation that we have, and then what in reality happens? So yeah, the expectation isn't met, and it might just be a hair off.
But it might be a lot of wide gap, you know, between Yeah, what it looks like in real life. And so, over time, when that's happening, it leads to depression, usually, because anxiety and or depression, because our, our hearts are made to really kind of deal with and make up the difference, if you will, in those kinds of gaps. Because in all of life, everyday, it's happening, you know, where, oh, I needed to get this done. And oh, I couldn't get it done. Well, that's okay.
I'll get it done tomorrow. So I just, I just reasoned it out, I just sorted it out and solve my own problem. But if day after day, after day, I'm I'm missing the mark. And I've got this high bar set, and I'm just hitting this low bar place. And that can be in my walk with the Lord or as a mom, as a wife, as a counselor, whatever I'm doing, if I'm feeling like I'm missing the mark, day after day after day, then chances are I have the
bar set too high. And number one, number two, chances are My heart can't make up the difference. And my head can't make up the difference. I can't, I can't sort that out. And so I'll get discouraged, depressed, anxious over trying and trying and and just not making it never feeling good enough.
Yeah. Wow, that's really true, especially I think, in the context of overseas ministry and life and ministry overseas, because all these new things come into our lives, like language learning and cultural adaptation. And we're not able to always take on as much as we used to, we're not we don't feel as productive as
we used to be, for example. So there's unmet expectations there, we thought we were going to do be able to accomplish this and this amount of time where we thought we were going to be able to learn the language in this amount of time or whatever it is. And and then, so there's, you're saying that there has to be some kind of reevaluate reassessment there going on. Okay. Is that bar set too high? At this season in my life? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's good. Well, this has been really,
really good. I am. I want to just wrap up our conversation today by talking about just each of us sharing our big soapbox issues when it comes to navigating seasons of change. So in other words, what theme or what Yeah, what theme? Do you constantly revisit, whether it's in the context of personal transition, or supporting and resourcing others through their own transition? So I know, for me, that theme that I constantly returned to in personal
transition. And it just so happens that that's a theme that a lot of people come to me for support with in leadership coaching. And it's about this, this whole process of who I'm becoming from getting from one shore to the next from getting from shore to shore, who am I becoming what person? What kind of person am I becoming? I like to say that transition equals transformation or transition, transition can lead to transformation. Rather than seeing transition as something
limiting. What if we can approach it through the lens of, of opportunity and growth and character formation? So cuz I know that that's often a big hurdle to get over like this transition is happening, that maybe we have this mindset of the grass is the grass is greener on the other side. Gotta get to the other side. And yet, what does God want to do in the process? What is he want to how does he want to shape? And for me? How does he want to? Yeah, work on me, in the midst and
through the transition. So that's been a big theme for me as I work through personal transition, and also as I support people going through transitions, tell me about you. What, what do you what are your big, what's a big theme for you?
Well, one thing that stands out for me is just this idea that we might be going through a personal transition, it might just be something we're experiencing at a personal level. But the ripple effect of that transition means it's going to affect our, our spouse, our kids, the people we work with, administer with the the ripple effect, it's going to spread. So I feel like I call it circles of support, we are supposed to bring in other people into the process, we're supposed to ask
for help. We're supposed to look for other resources and ask the Lord what else he has in mind. Because each transition has something new. That is the growth opportunity that you're talking about. But it's also like, I'm just thinking of us with our kids, our first big transition moving overseas, Adrianne, our first was one, she was 18 months old, so one and a half. And then that was 96. And then 98, Luke was born in 2002,
Emma was born. So all of our 20 years overseas was some combination of these, you know, babies than toddlers and kids and schooling and all the way up until the teens and so all the different transitions you just look at for our family, you know, and we, of course, you're not going to do those family transitions in isolation. But sometimes I think I, I
misunderstood that. Yeah, I needed to make sure that, you know, the kids were coming through these transitions, and seasons well, and I was supporting them well, and making sure that things were taken care of with that and wanting to care for you well and do those things. And I did my work, my transition work last after everybody else was taken care of. And it reminds me of you know, when you're on an airplane, and they say, if the cabin pressure drops, the oxygen
mask is gonna drop down. If you're traveling with small children, you put your mask on first, and then you help the child with theirs. Because then you're still breathing, you don't pass out, you know. So it makes total sense when you're on an airplane. But then in real life, I wasn't. Sometimes definitely in the early days, I wasn't good at putting my oxygen, my oxygen mask on first. And so I just was depleting my own resources, and sometimes running on empty or sometimes
running on reserve tanks. And then it's always harder to come back from that place. And that's again, where depression and anxiety can come into play, because we just aren't completely tapped out. So yeah, I think that you know, circles of support. What What more does the Lord have? What more does he want to pour into us? Who else does he want to be part of the equation so that we have more support in those in those really
hard times? And we can come out on the other side without empty tanks or running on reserves? Hmm,
that's good. And that is a great place to wrap up our conversation today with a question who might be your circle of support who might be in your circle of support as you go through this transition? A great way to think about doing transition intentionally. Thank you for joining me today, Eve.
You're welcome, Tim. It's been my pleasure. So happy, I could be your first podcast guest and I am looking forward to the others that will be sharing their resources and insights here as the episodes go on.
Well, this was a great way to start today. And thank you for all the inspiration that you brought to getting this podcast off the ground. To learn more about even what she does visit Eve Austin calm. And remember, there is hope, both through and on the other side of transition. And if transition is a place where God is always at work, what's one thing you can do to leverage the change you're in toward optimal growth. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of
navigate podcast. I've been your host Tim Austin along with my wife Eve, Austin. If this has been helpful for you, would you mind rating the podcast writing a review, sharing on social media. And of course, you can always subscribe so that you're sure to get in on the next episode and I'll see you there.